Camden Valley

[Rafters]

I heard a whisper that a few clubs are a bit disgruntled with the Sydney AFL & are considering affiliating with the Camden Valley comp next year.

What's the story guys? Anyone care to elaborate a bit more?

[shearer]

Rafters were you running around in the Magoos for Wollongong yesterday?

[Norris Lurker]

Does such a league exist?

[Rafters]

Originally posted by shearer
Rafters were you running around in the Magoos for Wollongong yesterday?

Sure was.

[Rafters]

Originally posted by Norris Lurker
Does such a league exist?

All I know is that Peter Free ex Wests, Campbelltown & SWS is coaching a side in a comp down there.

[william wallace]

Originally posted by Rafters
I heard a whisper that a few clubs are a bit disgruntled with the Sydney AFL & are considering affiliating with the Camden Valley comp next year.

What's the story guys? Anyone care to elaborate a bit more?


What has prompted thier state of mind? Standard of play? Umpiring? Discrepancy between top and bottom teams? One could assume campbelltown would be a little sick of losing. Though i have to say i saw campbelltown play earlier in the year, they have plenty to look forward to. Plenty of young talent, they just need to ensure that no one poaches them!

[Norris Lurker]

Originally posted by Rafters
All I know is that Peter Free ex Wests, Campbelltown & SWS is coaching a side in a comp down there. There is a Camden club playing in the South Coast AFL, but that's not going to help any club not happy in Sydney unless they're looking at jumping to the South Coast league.

[Rafters]

Originally posted by william wallace
What has prompted thier state of mind? Standard of play? Umpiring? Discrepancy between top and bottom teams? One could assume campbelltown would be a little sick of losing. Though i have to say i saw campbelltown play earlier in the year, they have plenty to look forward to. Plenty of young talent, they just need to ensure that no one poaches them!

Didn't here Campbelltown's name (nor any other SFL club) mentioned - but a few SFA Div1 & Div 2 clubs mentioned ... apparently they are sick of paying high affiliation fees without substantial benefits?? Lack of umpires in their respective comps??? Diffeerence between first & last an issue as well.

[william wallace]

Originally posted by Rafters
Didn't here Campbelltown's name (nor any other SFL club) mentioned - but a few SFA Div1 & Div 2 clubs mentioned ... apparently they are sick of paying high affiliation fees without substantial benefits?? Lack of umpires in their respective comps??? Diffeerence between first & last an issue as well.

A fair point on the umpires i'd say. A friend of mine plays in div2 seniors and said that at times they have had to have a player from each team put on white shirts and umpire. the umpires then swapped at each quarter break. This may be unavoidable, but if league affiliation costs are high, i would assume that these clubs would not be too happy.

[msabenny]

Who were the clubs involved Rafters?

[Rafters]

Originally posted by msabenny
Who were the clubs involved Rafters?

Prefer not to say as it was not necessarily the most reliable source in the world & wouldn't want to put my foot in it if rumour is false.

[tara]

Rumour are not false. Cronulla, South West and other have spoken. Sick to death of being screwed by the league. Why play fees to the league when you are lucky to get one over officious full of self worth small dick individual with no umpiring skills show up.

All the Western Sydney clubs want is to see where our money goes and for decent services to be provided.

Last weekend the under 18s at gipps road had plenty of umpires. The ressies game that followed had none except for a parramatta official/CHEAT. What transpired in that game was a digrace. If Holroyd take pleasure in winning by cheating good luck to them.

Pete just as J for a run down.

[Norris Lurker]

Welcome to RWO Tara, and in particular to the local footy board. You've posted some great stuff on the Sydney AFL on BigFooty, so it's good to have you on here.

I wasn't at Gipps Rd last weekend, but it's a bit strange if they can't get at least one field umpire. I know umpires are hard to find, but possibly they could look at spreading them around a bit more. If the home club's officials are umpiring, then that's a recipe for disaster.

[tara]

Thanks Norris for the welcome.

I just find it frustrating the lack of support clubs receive from the AFL. Im 34 now and my body is shot. I enjoyed the game last week playing in the centre for the ressies but copped a big hit and at the time just shrugged it off but my back has been stuffed all week since. Its pretty hard pulling up after each game these days.

The sad thing is that since I started at Bankstown around '91 is that the game seems to be going backward up here. I know that Auskick is taking off but senior footy if really struggling badly. At the Bombers at that time we had strong junior numbers and under 20's side and plenty of senior players now with merged side 25 to training is a good night. Id love to just sit back now and be a spectator but would feel guilty not pulling on the boots and trying to keep the club going. Hopefully with a non playing committee for 2006 we will be able to move forward again.

Id really like to be able to get involved in the Blacktown area if a club was to take off when I stop playing. Never in a coaching capacity but a support role assisting with fittness and matchdays. That way I could stay involved keep fit but not have to travel too much either. As it is ive lived in Illawong, Revesby, Cronulla, Blacktown and now Quakers Hill and only played for the one club (Bankstown - SWS). Id be nice not travelled 40+ minutes to and from training.

Regards

Mark

[Northern_Swan]

On the issue of Umpires, its pretty common practice around the traps to have Umpire number troubles. Up here in the BDAFL, we too have troubles with numbers and generally the association does one of two things-
1- the Under 18 Umpires do the Reserve grade fixture also
2- Club umpires (i.e one from each club) officiate.
Either way it has gone without trouble. In saying that you have to find 2 fair dinkum guys to do the game.
What the clubs want to happen (but so far the umpires assocaiation has not agreed to) is have one official run with either club member to mentor them and perhaps assist in their recruitment. The theory is that if the club guys become more competent & confident, they will feel compelled to cross over to the orange shirt brigade and give something back (other than sinking tinnies & remembering how good they thought they were!)

[tara]

Northern sounds like you guys have found a reasonably happy medium.

A couple of weeks ago I umpired our Ressies match against Sydney Uni. I know I made mistakes but I was also happy to clarify decisions when queried. Players had no problems when I quickly gave a running clarification why a decision was or wasnt made. I was more than happy with that fact that both sides didnt see a need to abuse me of the other blokes that were helping but was left wondering why umpires feel the need to be unaccountable for their decisions. I over the course of my playing days have been pretty bad for giving them a serve but usually becuase they refuse to clarify anything, prefering instead to march you fifty or send you if you see fit to query them. At least when you get an insight into how they are umpiring you can play to it

I probably would be happy to umpire in the future but would only want to do SWS games so that I could stay involved with the club. I couldnt see the league allowing that as I doubt they would believe that I could remain neutral. One reason I do not umpire goals is because I cost us a game against Manly a few years back with a line ball decision (pretty hard to look at your team mates when you know they feel you cost them 4 points - at least I can look at myself n the mirror though). I couldnt take satisfaction from cheating.

Who do you play for up there anyway?

[Northern_Swan]

I'm with cardiff (hence the sig at the bottom of my posts).
You make some very good points about the umpiring fraternity- generally those who were players tend to make the best umpires as they seem to umpire the game they wanted it to be played & they answer the questions to justify their decisions. Accountability for the pay they recieve is a big issue up here- some of the officials seem to think the game is there for them, not the other way around.
The point you make about wanting to still be involved with the club is interesting. The league up here is trying to instigate a situation where each club has one umpire who does the 18's and can still be involved with their club. Lets face it- club volunteers are up there with Umpires- scarce as hens teeth. Its just another attempt to break down the perception that running around in the orange is akin to shaking hands with the devil.
We need to face it- without the players there is no need for an umpire- but without an umpire we'll slowly end up with no players.

To get back on topic- from an outsiders perspective, it would be a shame to see clubs leave the Sydney AFL to join the South Coast. I'm not sure how the Syd AFL is run but i'd have to think there is a way to air the greivences that these clubs have with the way their competition is being run, to ensure it is improved. The competition will achieve nothing by those packing up their kit and setting up elsewhere, especially if they find the grass is not so green on the other side and they decide to come back.

[tara]

I think it is primarly a potentially well thought out threat that may sting the AFL into action. I know that Pekay hates the predicament he was placed in and would dealy love to be fielding two sides in our Division again. I would really hate to see more sides especialy mine disappear.

Sorry I didnt notice your sig. I have played trials against Nelson Bay and Wyong over the years.

[swansrock4eva]

I must admit, in my first year of local footy involvement, I have worked with both UNSW and Greater Western U18s, and was flabbergasted when at my second match with GWP, I suddenly ended up in the goal square waving the flags, and the boys on the field playing were also the ones throwing in. I know umpires are hard to come by, but I think a lot of that relates back to the way the senior level umpires are perceived - "white maggots" etc etc - who'd want to sign their kid up for that?

I know the AFL have been trying to promote better treatment of officials etc, but they really need to be a LOT more out there with their campaigns, and the campaigns need to target all levels - players, club officials, supporters etc, and across all levels of footy. Having said that though, a lot of that simply can't happen while so many contentious rules are so interpretation-based rather than clear black and white. If you could remove the discrepancies in interpretation, and the veil under which some umpires seem to operate, I think you'd see much better treatment of the officials. But until the umps get a better wrap one way or another, you're probably going to struggle getting new blood into the umpiring ranks.

Well, my $0.02 anyway!

[nugget]

These views are all valid.

As swansrock4eva said with the bad wrap that umpires get at all levels why would you want to sign up for it.

I umpired junior footy when I was about 14. So I was umpiring U9 at the time. Even then you would have the occassional game where the parents would hurl abuse. I was only doing it for the free pie and coke and the fact that I was there anyway watching my brother before I played.

Anyway back to the point. We've had this discussion numerous times at home. I remember my Mum saying a few years later that she used to hate me umpiring in case of the abuse particularly against a certain club.

This became worse as the coaches were on the field at that age group and this coach was the worst of the lot. It's sad that he actually became a rep coach a few years later on.

When coaches are leading the way with the abuse (at all levels of football) what hope is there of recruiting umpires.