Barry, Crouch, Matthews

[Plugger46]

These 3 blokes simply cost the side, when put in a pressure situation.

Leo Barry- Dumb footballer

Jared Crouch- Got absolutely stitched up by Harvey.

Ben Matthews- Waste of space

[Roscoe]

Plugger I'm surprised its taken you nearly 6 hours to start bagging your "terrible trio"

To say that these 3 players cost us the game is crap !

They had plenty of mates out there today who didn't perform.

I could lower myself to your pathetic level and mention your lovechild Warfe, but that is just a waste of space.

it was the 1st time crouch was beaten all season

Barry gave us something called "running"

and Mathews was hardly our worst player.

A loss like today is going to happen. at least we weren't as bad as the game against Hawthorn

[desredandwhite]

Granted all 3 had moments of insanity, but they had plenty of company. Kennelly handballing directly to an opponent 10 metres on his own, Ball and Goodes getting flogged in the ruck by the human beanpole Burton, bad shots at goal from Goodsey, Warfe losing possession while trying to bounce the ball... all contributed to a bad loss.

[NMWBloods]

I agree with Des. I think everyone struggled today. Crouch had a fairly dirty day, but that's one of his first in a long time. Except for his two silly handballs in the last qtr (which I've commented on elsewhere) I thought Barry did okay. I thought Matthews was okay again today. I wonder when they are going to move him into the midfield.

Overall everyone had problems with the fumbles, overrunning the ball, hitting targets, being first to the ball and just generally being interested. It happens. Hopefully rarely though.

[desredandwhite]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Overall everyone had problems with the fumbles, overrunning the ball,

At the risk of this turning into a back-slapping convention, I reckon you're absolutely spot on here - I'm struggling to recall another game I've seen IN SUCH GOOD CONDITIONS where the Swans have been unable to simply PICK THE DAMN THING UP!!!!

[Jimmy C]

Y'know, I reckon everybody was equally consistent in every area that contributed to the loss.

Maybe I'm just trying to deflect attention away from the boys here, and its probably of no consequence whatsoever, but I felt uneasy when I saw that Darren Goldspink was umpiring today.

Does anybody have a stat on free kicks and win/loss when he's officiating? Maybe its the beer talking, but I feel sure that he hates us. Today's tally was 9 to 14 in favour of the Roots. Even though our guys clearly gave some away, I felt that it was dreadfully inconsitent at times.

[Rizzo]

I didn't think Leo was that bad. He had some major brain explosions but also played hard on Archer. He also ran it out well MOST of the time.

Crouch was down sure, but cost the game????

I wouldn't have thought Mathews rated a mention. He was neither good nor bad.

Ball made some shocking decisions. Goodesy stuffed some golden opportunities and a lot of the other guys just generally fumbled about and turned the ball over.

Maxfield was a shining light and Hall did a good job - though he needs to work himself into the game when the ball isn't making its way to FF.

Overall, the guys looked flat, didn't execute the skills and lacked intensity. A day off and a long hard look at themselves is probably a good idea.

[Newbie]

Crouch is never going to cost us a game but he is neither going to win you a game. So why keep him in the team? Filling the space?

[desredandwhite]

Originally posted by Newbie
Crouch is never going to cost us a game but he is neither going to win you a game. So why keep him in the team? Filling the space?

*coughmatchwinninggoalagainstbrisbanecough*

I reckon it's a bit harsh to suggest that unless you are a matchwinner you shouldn't be in the side. Crouchie has a job to do most games and most of the time he does that job pretty well. I'm sure no team in the AFL has more than 5-10 genuine matchwinners.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Newbie
Crouch is never going to cost us a game but he is neither going to win you a game. So why keep him in the team? Filling the space?

Do you understand football? Do you think that every player has to be a matchwinner? Each player has a role to play and Crouch usually does his very well.

[Craig]

What about fumbling Fosdike? He is definately not a one grab player and cost us vital possession serveral times. The commentators even made mention that for a ground player he fumbles quite a lot.

It seems that we took it too easy going into this game which cost us. Hopefully we can improve next week and beat the Tigers.

[Bear]

Plugger46 you have been stamped after this thread .... never to be taken seriously again.

Unfortunatley your name has striking similarities to Tony's comeback in the #46 - a waste of time.

Absolutely no point responding to your comments on Crouch, Barry and Mathews.

:o

[Newbie]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
Do you understand football? Do you think that every player has to be a matchwinner? Each player has a role to play and Crouch usually does his very well.

For us to be something, our second-tiers must be able to stand up and offer us something when our top-liners have a bad day.
When was the last time, we have seen that with our team?

In constrast, when Brisbane's top-liners were tagged out of the game, their second-liners chip in. Hart did that in the last grand final.

Why I singled out Crouch on this. Simple reason is that he is hitting his PEAK right now. And if he could not stand up right now, he is never going to stand up.

Tolerating strictly role-based players like Crouch will not deliver us a flag.

[Newbie]

Originally posted by Craig
What about fumbling Fosdike? He is definately not a one grab player and cost us vital possession serveral times. The commentators even made mention that for a ground player he fumbles quite a lot.

It seems that we took it too easy going into this game which cost us. Hopefully we can improve next week and beat the Tigers.

Forside is an interesting proposition. I at times, thought he has overcome this weakness of his. I remembered in the game against Brisbane, he made a classy one-grab pickup at full pace. I thought that was the break he needs. It seems he is going back to his shelf again. It is all in his head I think and that is pretty hard to fix.

[Plugger46]

Originally posted by Bear
Plugger46 you have been stamped after this thread .... never to be taken seriously again.

Unfortunatley your name has striking similarities to Tony's comeback in the #46 - a waste of time.

Absolutely no point responding to your comments on Crouch, Barry and Mathews.

:o

Have I really Bear?

Well to tell you the truth, the last thing I'm worried about is the rubbish that comes out of your mouth. We are not going to win a flag with those 3 running around, it is as simple as that.

Obviously you have no idea if your getting into the greatest full-forward of all time, please inform me if you kicked 1360 goals you dropkick. What a joke you are mate.

There are reasons as to why that comeback failed, it never should have. I'll name them for you, if you want??

I'm personally not into making these personal attacks, but the attack you made was un-called for.

[motorace_182]

Fosdike is not as fearless as his nickname says, he always ends up on the bottom of the pack cos he forces it there.
Kirk got a fair amount of the footy early but wasted it big time as did Tiger. Stewie played well as did BH, but why put Nicks and ROK in there????Both clearly not up to scratch and will never make it at the top flight.

[Craig]

Yep that 'Fearless' tag is a joke. From now on I'm calling him Fumbling Fosdike.

I thought Kirk was great yesterday. He tried hard all day, got a bit of the ball and used it relatively well. Likewise with Maxfield.

[Mark]

How you can bag Crouch (as a player) after one mediocre performance is beyond me! he has taken some more than handy scalps this year alone !

Nicks had a blinder of course kicking directly to Norf players on at least two occasions kicking into Burton with two plyers free upfield and no pressure on. He is a lazy player at the best of times but when out of form (as he has been for over a year) does not deserve a spot.

It is easy to pick out individuals either way but lets face it the whole team did not perform.

[Frosty_13]

Plugger would have to agree with you these 3 blokes are holding the team back from really being a top 4 side. Leo DOES NOT have a right foot and bounces the ball every 3 steps HE IS HORRIBLE. Its a myth that crouch is a good footballer, he may tag allright but to be a good footballer you must do a lot more than just tag. A good tagger is someone who shuts the person down and gets the ball himself and USES it - e.g Brett Kirk. Crouch has terrible skills he turns the ball over reguarly.

Mathhews is just plain soft, is a genuine reciver and never gets the hardball. How oftern do you see him on his own. Usally his opponent hurts us.

Bear i think you have to respect every 1 on this board not just the ones that agree with you.

[redunderthebed]

yeh Frosty, but Plugger46 is wrong and deserves to be corrected.
I think Leo had a poor game but Crouch and mathews were ok.On that game, Nicks,Fossie,Warfe would be more in question as part of the team for the future.

[liz]

Originally posted by redunderthebed
I think Leo had a poor game but Crouch and mathews were ok.On that game, Nicks,Fossie,Warfe would be more in question as part of the team for the future.

Which is why you shouldn't judge a player on single performances. Fossie has been one of the most consistent players this season - until yesterday. He hasn't been starring but has been doing solid, hard, valuable work in most games, both within packs and as a receiver.

And for those who think Crouch and Mathews are not worthy, I'll remind you yet again that both finished in the top 10 in last years B&F - Crouch 4th. And Mathews was 3rd the year before. Whatever some of use think about our armchair coaching ability, I think most would acknowledge that our highly credentialled coaching staff do actually know what they're talking about!!!

I know I keep pulling the B&F argument out, but I think its a good reminder of what a tiny part of the contributions we often see.

[Cheer Cheer]

I would also be interested redunderthebed why you say leo had a bad game when he towelled up archer and was in our top 3-4 players

[Nico]

Originally posted by Cheer Cheer
I would also be interested redunderthebed why you say leo had a bad game when he towelled up archer and was in our top 3-4 players

Don't know about this one. Leo did not have a kick in the first half, Archer had 5 in the second stanza. Leo managed 7 handpasses in the last 1/4 but most of those were where he got himself into trouble. How anyone could put him into the best players staggers me.

[Newbie]

Originally posted by lizz
Which is why you shouldn't judge a player on single performances. Fossie has been one of the most consistent players this season - until yesterday. He hasn't been starring but has been doing solid, hard, valuable work in most games, both within packs and as a receiver.

And for those who think Crouch and Mathews are not worthy, I'll remind you yet again that both finished in the top 10 in last years B&F - Crouch 4th. And Mathews was 3rd the year before. Whatever some of use think about our armchair coaching ability, I think most would acknowledge that our highly credentialled coaching staff do actually know what they're talking about!!!

I know I keep pulling the B&F argument out, but I think its a good reminder of what a tiny part of the contributions we often see.
Crouch at 4th in B&F really explains the current state of our list. He would never get in a top 12 for a genuine chance team. While I admire his effort, I doubt we would win the flag with him playing his current role.

Fossie while has been solid, my main question mark over him is whether he could perform in high pressure (i.e. September) footy. So far he has shown none of that. Whenever the pressure is on, he falters. Outwide and in space, he is doing fine.

[liz]

Originally posted by Newbie
Crouch at 4th in B&F really explains the current state of our list. He would never get in a top 12 for a genuine chance team. While I admire his effort, I doubt we would win the flag with him playing his current role.

Fossie while has been solid, my main question mark over him is whether he could perform in high pressure (i.e. September) footy. So far he has shown none of that. Whenever the pressure is on, he falters. Outwide and in space, he is doing fine.

Maybe, maybe not. I happen to rate Crouch more highly than many others on this site - buts that's fine, we're all entitled to our opinion. But unless we think the coaching staff don't know how to judge the players' performances, it suggests there are another 20 or so players whose place in the squad should be questioned first - ie everyone other than Willo, Goodes, Cresswell, the kids, and players who were injured for a large part of last year (Ball, Barry, Maxfield, Doyle).

On Fossie, he hasn't really had a chance to perform in September yet. He's probably only played the one finals game - that massacre against the Hawks in 2001.

[treespirit]

Spot on as usual lizz. Crouch is one of the best taggers around ATM.

It's difficult for us to judge the players' performances when we don't know what the detailed game plan is and what instructions they've been given. It's easy to see when Goodes is flamboyantly running all over the park, but a lot harder to notice when one of the opposition has a quiet game as a result of a great tag.

[Plugger46]

Originally posted by Nico
Don't know about this one. Leo did not have a kick in the first half, Archer had 5 in the second stanza. Leo managed 7 handpasses in the last 1/4 but most of those were where he got himself into trouble. How anyone could put him into the best players staggers me.

Me too Nico.

He cost us any chance of winning the game with his woeful run through the middle of the ground in the last quarter. He just gets it at runs, doesn't think before he goes, "dumb" footballer.

[robbieando]

As said before Leo is a Left footer and as such has to run around to get onto his left foot to kick it too a player.

You two - Plugger46 and Frosty_13 - attack the performance of Barry, Mathews and Crouch, yet you think McPherson and Warfe are good players who should be in the side.

The 3 you name are better than you give them credit for and everytime you bag them we all give you reasons why they are important. You claim that they won't win us a premiership, well McPherson and Warfe sure as hell won't

[Alison]

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,6491026%255E19773,00.html

Also, just to clarify (if you have a look at the statistics) clearance means you win the ball from a bounce of throw in. Someone was going on that Leo Barry only have one clearance. The statistic does not cover clearing the ball out of defence.

If you go to the Herald Sun Statistics, you will see that Leo Barry only had one clanger for the game. Have a look at some of the other players - disgraceful.

I just really feel for Leo and I do not believe that he gets any support from you supporters. Never can you recognise that he does set up play and play well. I agree that he does not need to bounce the ball as much but none of our players are perfect. I think Leo has been one of our best 2 defenders for the year. I went back and had a look at all the posts for the year and after every game, there is a post bagging Leo. Not other players when they do something wrong but always Leo or Warfe. Have a closer look at other players or what Leo does well. Someone said he did not have any kicks up until half time (still ended up with 17 possessions for the game) - yet if it was another defender, BOlton, Shauble you would not care as long as he kept Archer quiet. Ridiculous. I think it was a big task for Leo playing on Archer and he did well. Sorry to go on and on but I think it is bullying. Why do we pick on players? If it is not Barry, it is Warfe or Mathews or Crouch. What about Goodes game on the weekend - if it had been Barry that had tried to be too fancy and played on and kicked a point or dropped easy marks there would have been a post 4 pages long. Or Willow (who I do not believe has been performing) tackling Archer too high and Archer then kicking his only goal. Don't get me wrong I think Goodes is our best player but can you see what I am saying. Go back and watch the reply and see the goals that Leo set up from the backline. Seriously. If you think that all the other players are perfect than that is silly. We all make mistakes but Barry cannot make one without every bullying him. Some people just seem to not like him so pick on everything which is not fair.

[Bear]

Originally posted by Plugger46
Have I really Bear?

Well to tell you the truth, the last thing I'm worried about is the rubbish that comes out of your mouth. We are not going to win a flag with those 3 running around, it is as simple as that.

Obviously you have no idea if your getting into the greatest full-forward of all time, please inform me if you kicked 1360 goals you dropkick. What a joke you are mate.

There are reasons as to why that comeback failed, it never should have. I'll name them for you, if you want??

I'm personally not into making these personal attacks, but the attack you made was un-called for.

You are not into personal atacks???

What are you doing singling out players for personal attacks then...

:confused:

[NMWBloods]

As said before Leo is a Left footer and as such has to run around to get onto his left foot to kick it too a player.


This is one of the most ridiculous excuses I have seen. All AFL footballers should be able to kick both feet and there is absolutely no excuse not to be able to.

[penga]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
This is one of the most ridiculous excuses I have seen. All AFL footballers should be able to kick both feet and there is absolutely no excuse not to be able to.

when was the last time you saw hird use his left??? or yze his right???

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by penga
when was the last time you saw hird use his left??? or yze his right???

I've seen Hird kick left foot. Rarely see Yze use his right, but that's not unusual. There are few too many players who can only kick on one side of the body. Scott Lucas is one of the worst. But still, it's not excuse. Easy skill to learn, particularly if you are a professional. I can honestly say I believe I can kick or handball wrong side of my body better than half the players in the AFL.

[Alison]

I agree that Leo does sometimes try too hard to get onto his left but not usually. Just because he is having a bounce and dodging does not mean he does not want to use his right foot. Roos has given him and Tadgh the licence to run and dodge and that is what they are doing.

[undy]

I cringe every time I see Leo take off on a ball-bouncing run, but he nearly always draws at least one extra player to him than he would if he hand-balled or chipped immediately (which I think a lot of people would rather he did). This often opens up a space somewhere so that we can build an attack more easily.

Paul Kelly used to do a similar thing (although in that case the extra players would usually be hanging on to his ankles as he carried on running).

Alison - I was going to review all the posts for the year too - I wondered if there was anyone left who hadn't been "virtually" axed or traded ?

Andy

[scurrilous]

I know for a fact that at Collingwood, Paul Liccuria was absolutely detested by a majority of fans for his apparant lack of ball getting skills. But look at the role he played back then... Tagger! All the wobbles fans were calling for his delisting, but look at him now. Been given a different role and is considered "do not touch" material by the fans. I see Crouchy in this line of light.

Let's face it. We do NOT know what instructions a player has been sent out onto the field to do so we should NOT criticise performances and speak them as gospel. And let me tell you, each player would be given a different set of instructions each game. Same role, yes, different instructions, definitely.

[NMWBloods]

As I've said before there's nothing wrong with Barry running out of defence, in fact it's of great value. I just wish he'd think about it a bit more. I wish he wouldn't take a bounce in his first two steps and I wish he'd look to dish it off after drawing one man rather than trying to run around an extra couple.

[Newbie]

Licuria is a year or two younger than Crouch. Licuria graduated from the tagging school two years ago. Crouch is still in this school. Given that Cresswell has been missing some games this year, there have been opportunities for Crouch to stand up to take that spot. So far he hasn't. This is really disappointing.

[NMWBloods]

They've played pretty much the same number of games (Crouch only 17 more). However, doesn't it also depend on what the coach wants from them?

[undy]

Licuria is a year or two younger than Crouch. Licuria graduated from the tagging school two years ago. Crouch is still in this school. Given that Cresswell has been missing some games this year, there have been opportunities for Crouch to stand up to take that spot. So far he hasn't. This is really disappointing.

Not true, Crouchy appears to be a few months younger than Licuria... and made his debut a year later.

What particular Cresswell role it is that you think Crouch should be taking - (he's taken his most consecutive games title, hasn't he ) ? - they seem to be equipped with different skill sets.

Andy

[Plugger46]

Originally posted by robbieando
As said before Leo is a Left footer and as such has to run around to get onto his left foot to kick it too a player.

You two - Plugger46 and Frosty_13 - attack the performance of Barry, Mathews and Crouch, yet you think McPherson and Warfe are good players who should be in the side.

The 3 you name are better than you give them credit for and everytime you bag them we all give you reasons why they are important. You claim that they won't win us a premiership, well McPherson and Warfe sure as hell won't

Robbieando,

Please tell me when I have rated McPherson?

I have been calling for his de-listing for the best part of the last decade, I agree he is not as good as the 3 i listed, however they are no worldbeaters mate.

[bomber-princess]

from what i saw of the game the team as a whole played poorly, yes there were a few players that had good games, rowan when he was on, goodsey, ball.
The main player that hasn't been playing well the last few games is andrew schuable. he did absolutely nothing right against the roos.

[Bear]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
This is one of the most ridiculous excuses I have seen. All AFL footballers should be able to kick both feet and there is absolutely no excuse not to be able to.

Maxfield is even more reliant on his left...

Dunkley couldn't use either...

Where is the issue?

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Bear
Maxfield is even more reliant on his left...

Dunkley couldn't use either...

Where is the issue?

The issue is these guys are generally smart with their football. Maxfield tends, somehow, to nearly always be running to his left side. However, I also note that I have seen him kick on the right when he is caught on it.

As for Dunkley, he knew he couldn't kick so he elected to handball instead.

So, players should be able to kick both feet, but if they can't then they should recognise it and play smart. Barry often doesn't and frequently in his run up the ground he runs onto the wrong side and gets himself into trouble trying to correct. If he can't kick wrong foot then the least he can do is learn how to kick on the outside of his foot, like Lucas does.

[penga]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
kick on the outside of his foot, like Lucas does.

me in my ignorance thought, until recently, that lucas was actually right footed :D

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by penga
me in my ignorance thought, until recently, that lucas was actually right footed :D

You've obviously never really been looking when he's playing. :)
I have never ever seen him use his right foot.

[penga]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
You've obviously never really been looking when he's playing. :)
I have never ever seen him use his right foot.

well thats the thing, i have seen a bit of lucas (i really like his game) and i thought he was a right footer who could use his left really well :D

[scurrilous]

Originally posted by Newbie
Licuria is a year or two younger than Crouch. Licuria graduated from the tagging school two years ago. Crouch is still in this school. Given that Cresswell has been missing some games this year, there have been opportunities for Crouch to stand up to take that spot. So far he hasn't. This is really disappointing.
You didn't listen to what I said in your blind rage of fury did you! Instead you went off on your Crouch is crap tangent. Probably didn't even read the whole post? Oh well.

[scurrilous]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
They've played pretty much the same number of games (Crouch only 17 more). However, doesn't it also depend on what the coach wants from them?
Aaaah! As always (well nearly :)) you are on my wavelength NMW.

[Newbie]

Originally posted by scurrilous
You didn't listen to what I said in your blind rage of fury did you! Instead you went off on your Crouch is crap tangent. Probably didn't even read the whole post? Oh well.
I understood that your defense of Crouch is along the line: he was given a job by the coach and thus performs accordingly.

The question remained is that why the coach did not give him a bigger role once an opportunity arises (e.g. when Cresswell was absent)???

One answer, people seem often putting up is that we got no one to replace him. I dont buy this. We have many bigger roles unfilled. If Crouch could stand up and take a bigger role, our quest to filling up our cracks will be much easy.

Another answer is the coach does not feel confidence enough to give him a bigger one. If so, it shows his real limitation.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by penga
well thats the thing, i have seen a bit of lucas (i really like his game) and i thought he was a right footer who could use his left really well :D

If he was like that then he would really be a champion!! :)

[Plugger46]

Originally posted by Bear
Maxfield is even more reliant on his left...

Dunkley couldn't use either...

Where is the issue?

The simple answer to that is Maxfield can play, Barry can't. Stewie has the ability to get on to his left foot without any trouble, how often do you see him get caught? Hardly ever I would suggest. Maxfield, as soon as he gets it, runs on to his left foot. Barry does the opposite 50% of the time. As soon as Leo gets the footy he runs, and runs without thinking, and consequently gets himself into trouble. That is why I call him a "dumb" footballer.

By the way Dunkley didn't need foot skills, he had a great pair of hands, and a bit of 'nous'. Something severly lacking in Leo's repertoire.

[Nico]

Originally posted by penga
well thats the thing, i have seen a bit of lucas (i really like his game) and i thought he was a right footer who could use his left really well :D

Penga, I thought you were taking the Pi55 in your first comment on Lucas. Now I think that Neil Armstrong must have left you on the moon in 1969 and you have been listening to a very static call of the footy from Rex Hunt ever since. Looks like a trip to OPSM will do you a lot of good.

[penga]

Originally posted by Nico
Penga, I thought you were taking the Pi55 in your first comment on Lucas. Now I think that Neil Armstrong must have left you on the moon in 1969 and you have been listening to a very static call of the footy from Rex Hunt ever since. Looks like a trip to OPSM will do you a lot of good.

admitdly (sp?), my football knowledge (outside of the swans) has only really start to evolve since i discovered this site late last year and when we subscribed to fox footy at about the same time (oct. last year) my knowledge is quickly growing, but i still dont have everyone down just yet :) thus, would explain y i thought lucas was a right footer

[Bear]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
The issue is these guys are generally smart with their football. Maxfield tends, somehow, to nearly always be running to his left side. However, I also note that I have seen him kick on the right when he is caught on it.

As for Dunkley, he knew he couldn't kick so he elected to handball instead.

So, players should be able to kick both feet, but if they can't then they should recognise it and play smart. Barry often doesn't and frequently in his run up the ground he runs onto the wrong side and gets himself into trouble trying to correct. If he can't kick wrong foot then the least he can do is learn how to kick on the outside of his foot, like Lucas does.

not true

Maxfield gets caught on his wrong side of his body as well. The advantage Maxfield had is he is more of a receiver and has an easy opportunity to run around the left hand side of his teammate and take the easy handpass to then kick on his left foot - degree of difficulty much less.

In any case, your point was that Barry has no right foot and my point is that he has (for example) a better right than Maxfield, or Bayes or Dunkley - simple fact.

Further, if Maxfield gets caught on the wrong side he slams the ball onto the boot, often causing a turnver - Barry takes on the opponent and has the ability to get out of the situation so he has been given license to do so by Roos.

Dunkley often got caught having to kick it and turned the ball over - many times.

[Alison]

I agree Bear. Also a lot of times when Maxfield goes for a run he is completely by himself whereas Leo is running the ball out of the defence and has players coming at him. Leo is under a lot more pressure when he gets the ball.

[NMWBloods]

But the point about Barry is that he often tries to evade too many players and then runs himself into trouble. If he would dispose of the ball earlier then he wouldn't get into trouble. Additionally, he is bringing the ball out of the half back line and a turnover at that point can be critically damaging, as he proved in the last qtr on Sunday.

It doesn't matter how many other players you comment can't kick on their wrong foot, the simple fact is that Barry frequently gets himself in trouble because of this and that is the key issue.

[Bear]

Originally posted by NMWBloods

It doesn't matter how many other players you comment can't kick on their wrong foot, the simple fact is that Barry frequently gets himself in trouble because of this and that is the key issue.

No it's not, you said that:

"All AFL footballers should be able to kick both feet and there is absolutely no excuse not to be able to."

This is the key point i was responding to and I gave you evidence that quite a number cannot, yet still provide great contributions.

...and i'll tell you why it IS excuseable, because they are human beings that have different strengths and weaknesses, and in the case of a Dunkley or a Bayes, their weaklnesses were overcome by their strengths.

Same applies for Leo Barry whom some seem to have a vendetta against even though, by OBJECTIVE AND INDEPENDENT reports, he is in our best players most weeks.

Simply ludicrous.

[TheMase]

Originally posted by warfes_babe
had good games, rowan when he was on, goodsey, ball.


Do you wear glasses?

Perhaps you should consider ...

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by Bear
No it's not, you said that:

"All AFL footballers should be able to kick both feet and there is absolutely no excuse not to be able to."

This is the key point i was responding to and I gave you evidence that quite a number cannot, yet still provide great contributions.

...and i'll tell you why it IS excuseable, because they are human beings that have different strengths and weaknesses, and in the case of a Dunkley or a Bayes, their weaklnesses were overcome by their strengths.

Same applies for Leo Barry whom some seem to have a vendetta against even though, by OBJECTIVE AND INDEPENDENT reports, he is in our best players most weeks.

Simply ludicrous.

Ah, okay so you were responding to something different. I stick by my original point. All AFL players should be able to use both sides of the body. It's simple practice and as professionals they have time to do so.

BTW Bayes could kick exceptionally well with his right foot.

Dunkley could kick equally (badly) with both feet.

I wasn't having a specific dig at Barry, rather that if he gets himself in trouble because he has to get back onto his left foot then that is not an excuse, despite some saying it is. Either learn to kick right foot or don't run to the right side.

[Alison]

NMW Bloods - I agree that Barry should learn to look up at times before he kicks the ball etc as he can run in trouble but I really dislike (and this is not directed at you) the comments that he is dumb, stupid, can't play etc. I think that is quite rude from so-called supporters. I don't think Barry will ever do anything right in anyone's eyes.

As Bron mentioned. taking the B & F as an indication, Barry came 12th (I think) last year after missing 10 games. Good effort.

[Nico]

Originally posted by penga
admitdly (sp?), my football knowledge (outside of the swans) has only really start to evolve since i discovered this site late last year and when we subscribed to fox footy at about the same time (oct. last year) my knowledge is quickly growing, but i still dont have everyone down just yet :) thus, would explain y i thought lucas was a right footer

All is forgiven Penga, we have sent for a space shuttle to bring you back from the moon. I guess though you can see that our game is very involved, and is not just a matter of a few blokes having a kick in the park.

It would be great if someone could write a book on the wide range of tactics, plays etc employed by coaches and explain some of the termaknowledgies of the game such as - running forward of the play, playing off another player, touch and feel, periphery vision, voices, how a player like Goodes learns to position themselves strategically during phases of a game, rocket and floater handpasses and when to use them, and it just goes on. It is a science.

I understand the AFL makes a lot of this info available through their Level 1, 2 and 3 coaching courses and videos (done Level 1 myself). Maybe a call to them could snaffle you some literature to read up on.

By the way if go to the MCG, top level of the Southern Stand you will get a great view of how teams run in lines and flood back etc. You also get a better appreciation of where say a backman stands in relation to his forward.

Also when you have followed the game for some time you start to look at players from other teams more closely, particularly if you are watching replays of other teams. It is an experience to go to a game where the Swans are not playing as you are not biased, and then you will appreciate the umpires and players and see how parochial and illogical a lot of the comments are that come from the supporters of those teams.

[Nico]

I wasn't having a specific dig at Barry, rather that if he gets himself in trouble because he has to get back onto his left foot then that is not an excuse, despite some saying it is. Either learn to kick right foot or don't run to the right side.


__________________
Beatifully said NMW.

[penga]

Originally posted by Nico
All is forgiven Penga, we have sent for a space shuttle to bring you back from the moon. I guess though you can see that our game is very involved, and is not just a matter of a few blokes having a kick in the park.

Also when you have followed the game for some time you start to look at players from other teams more closely, particularly if you are watching replays of other teams.

u missed my point, i am a '96 baby'... i was converted that year, we attended a few games in 97 and have been a member since 98... i have also played for a local team for two years when i was younger (u/18 in 97-98) and am currently training with the seconds of that same team every wednesday night (tonight), i cant play with them as i go to church on a saturday morning and thats when they play...

therefore, what i was saying was that since i have got fox footy channel, my knowledge of the AFL (ie players etc outside of the swans) has improved exponentially and only since then i have discovered that lucas is a left footer :D get my point now? :)

[Plugger46]

Penga,

As you are relatively new to the game, word of advice, don't listen to anything the media tell you, make your own opinions on everything, don't be guided by them.

[penga]

Originally posted by Plugger46
Penga,

As you are relatively new to the game, word of advice, don't listen to anything the media tell you, make your own opinions on everything, don't be guided by them.

new to the game? i think 7 years is enough to figure out whats going on!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :mad: :mad: tool

[Plugger46]

Well, you haven't been brought up with it, put it that way smartarse.

[Roscoe]

Well Plugger 46 any comments on the performance by your
"terrible Trio"

Leo was great running out of defence. Wake up Plugger, he is going to do the occassional clanger, but he gives us something with his great running and evasion. I cant recall him being caught
in possession too many times this year.

Crouch did well after being beaten last week. Kept his opponent in check and did some good cleaning up, some strong tackles and some good bursts out of the backline.

Matthews was as solid as ever. This guy is not my favourite player
but fully deserves his spot in the side. Didn't do much wrong on sat nite (except get belted by Richo)

[Alison]

Leo Barry had a great game. Well done. Think he has been told to look up before he takes a bounce. He is so strong. Thought he was one of the best players although in the end it was a team effort.

[thommoone]

I always liked crouch and Barry, crouch is a great tagger and Barry gives us an enormous run out of defense and his positives clearly outway his nagatives.........
however, i never really liked Mathews, while i agree he deserves his spot in the team, i think his reaction time is much too slow, clearly demonstrated when he didnt htink quick enough to put his arms up to protect himself from richo, also he takes an eternity to release the ball in tight and as a result gets tackled afair bit.
this is just my observations

[Plugger46]

Originally posted by Roscoe
Well Plugger 46 any comments on the performance by your
"terrible Trio"

Leo was great running out of defence. Wake up Plugger, he is going to do the occassional clanger, but he gives us something with his great running and evasion. I cant recall him being caught
in possession too many times this year.

Crouch did well after being beaten last week. Kept his opponent in check and did some good cleaning up, some strong tackles and some good bursts out of the backline.

Matthews was as solid as ever. This guy is not my favourite player
but fully deserves his spot in the side. Didn't do much wrong on sat nite (except get belted by Richo)

Leo played a good game on the weekend, but you must be watching different games to me if your not seeing that he gets caught. The "occasional" clanger?? ... it happens far too often for it to be occasional.

Crouchy was ok, he kept krakour to, two goals which is not too bad.

Don't know why your singing the praises of Matthews though, didn't do anything really.

Oi Roscoe, did you happen to see a couple of telling touches from Warfe on Saturday night.

He is starting to find some form, as I told everyone that he would.

[penga]

Originally posted by Plugger46

Well, you haven't been brought up with it, put it that way smartarse.


least im not a condascending moron :rolleyes:



Originally posted by Plugger46
Oi Roscoe, did you happen to see a couple of telling touches from Warfe on Saturday night.

He is starting to find some form, as I told everyone that he would.

u mistify reason, he got 4 touches and only when he had any chance of getting a telling touch, he overran the ball and it went out of bounds... he had a good 60 minutes of game time as well, thats 0.07 touches per minute :rolleyes:

[Nico]

I have been one of the Leo baggers. I have got to say I think Saturday night was his very best game.

He only once went the wrong way and got himself into trouble, and was able to extract himself. He seemed to look where he was kicking and hit the target most times.

If he plays like that every week and has learned from his past errors, (he must be watching videos, they all do) then you won't get any more complaints from me.

[desredandwhite]

p46, penga, play the ball, not the man please.

FWIW, I reckon Leo Barry is one of the important pieces in our backline. When it goes wrong, he just looks silly, but when we're on fire, he can provide that burst of creativity that gives us an edge, if that makes sense. I think we need Nicks back playing this sort of role too - His best work was done at HBF.

[Bear]

it's ok Des, P46 is not into personal attacks :rolleyes:

[Plugger46]

Originally posted by Bear
it's ok Des, P46 is not into personal attacks :rolleyes:

I am when people are getting into me, like your goodself Bear. Penga took what I said, the wrong way, it was a friendly piece of advice.

Simple as that.

[robbieando]

Originally posted by Plugger46
I am when people are getting into me, like your goodself Bear. Penga took what I said, the wrong way, it was a friendly piece of advice.

Simple as that.

Yes and you have been warned. Play the ball not the man everyone. No more "I've followed the game longer" crap

[NMWBloods]

I wonder how P46 can give that sort of advice anyway. Penga has followed the game for 7 and a bit years. How long has P46 followed the game for? According to his profile he's only 16, so it can be that much longer.

[penga]

Originally posted by Plugger46
I am when people are getting into me, like your goodself Bear. Penga took what I said, the wrong way, it was a friendly piece of advice.

Simple as that.

well fair enough, if thats what u were trying to achieve...

but to me you inferred to things:

one - im a new comer so i dont know what im talking about and

two - i dont form my own opinion except for that to which the media tells me...

both to me is quite offensive, as i think i create my opinion very independently to what the media portrays and i do have a fair football knowledge (no where near the capacity of some people on these boards, but id still like to think i have some sort of reckoning)...

and i agree with robbie's point

lets leave it there...

[Plugger46]

sorry penga,

i'm not that sort of person, and i definitely was not suggesting what you said.

i assure u, it didn't mean to come accross the way it obviously did.

[Sid]

I am surprised with some of ur attitudes towards crouch, barry and mathews and Fosdike.

Barry has shown great ability with his running and strength, getting us out of danger for numerous times in great fashion (with his dodging of the players who just cant get their arms around him).

Crouch, no doubt the best tagger of Sydney. He had a poor game but that doesnt change anything. He had a ripper against the Lions and that just shows that he can match the best.

Fosdike, a big improver. Not very physical and scared of getting drilled, which is why he fumbles. But he always comes up with great pocessions and important goals.

Mathews, not sure about him... who do u think we replace him with?

Please note that defender's mistakes are way more noticeable, easier to make and its not an easy job.

Who do u suggest we replace these ppl with?