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Grant
13th January 2003, 12:57 PM
There is an article on Heath James On the afl website.He is pretty keen this yearFind it here-http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=70759

swansrock4eva
13th January 2003, 02:12 PM
Uh where did the force go if its not with you anymore Grant? And waht did you do to make it go away? or do we not ask that question....

TheMase
13th January 2003, 02:34 PM
I did read that article.

It is interesting to note that Sydney did leave an extra spot on the list open.

Is this so that Sydney can promote a rookie if need be? (Heath James if he comes through, or even Ryan Crawford if he does well?)

desredandwhite
13th January 2003, 02:37 PM
I haven't kept up to date with the list numbers, so it's interesting to hear that. I'd assume it's to keep our options open. After all, there's a decent chance that one of the rookies might do enough to offer the list some depth.

BTW, welcome to the new RWO, Mase! The first non-test group poster to "find" the forum :)

TheMase
13th January 2003, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by desredandwhite
I haven't kept up to date with the list numbers, so it's interesting to hear that. I'd assume it's to keep our options open. After all, there's a decent chance that one of the rookies might do enough to offer the list some depth.

BTW, welcome to the new RWO, Mase! The first non-test group poster to "find" the forum :)

Thanks Des!

I went to the messageboard part of the site, and saw that it said it will be up soon.

Then thought, if its gonna be up soon, then they're testing it. And then typed in www.redandwhiteonline.com/forum :D

And here I am.

Too good! :cool: ;)

chammond
13th January 2003, 04:35 PM
I thought that Cressa was on the veterans list, in which case . . . isn't the squad two senior spots short??

TheMase
13th January 2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by chammond
I thought that Cressa was on the veterans list, in which case . . . isn't the squad two senior spots short??

Not entirely sure.
But I am fairly sure the article stated that Sydney had 1 spare senior spot.

I think this was probably made this way for James to come through.
We need a full back, if James does come through and is playing well enough to play senior footy, then they can elevate him.

Considering we are in need, that 1 spot is pretty much his if he stays injury free IMO.

robbieando
13th January 2003, 04:49 PM
We have 1 spot open to us I think - In any case its more than likely going to be saved in case any of our ruckman go down with a long term injuried which would mean Menklejohn will move on to the senior list.

TheMase
13th January 2003, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by robbieando
We have 1 spot open to us I think - In any case its more than likely going to be saved in case any of our ruckman go down with a long term injuried which would mean Menklejohn will move on to the senior list.

I don't think the spot is for that all.
If that was the purpose of the spare spot, then wouldn't the player that is long term injured, go onto the long term injury list which would then allow Mecklejohn onto the senior list?

I really do think its for Heath James, simply because if he comes good, we dont want to replace anybody.
We just need him on the senior list, whereas if a ruckman goes down, we put them on the long term injury list and promote Mecklejohn.

:cool:

robbieando
13th January 2003, 05:04 PM
Mase to get onto the long term injury list the injury must keep you out for at least 8 weeks so if Doyle went down for only say 5 weeks he couldn't go on the list. But having the extra spot open on the list means if this happens we can still bring Menklejohn onto the list.

Also once on the longterm injury list you can't play again for 8 weeks meaning if you could come back early, you can't.

TheMase
13th January 2003, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by robbieando
Mase to get onto the long term injury list the injury must keep you out for at least 8 weeks so if Doyle went down for only say 5 weeks he couldn't go on the list. But having the extra spot open on the list means if this happens we can still bring Menklejohn onto the list.

Also once on the longterm injury list you can't play again for 8 weeks meaning if you could come back early, you can't.

Oh okay fair enough.

Although, I think if he was to be out for less than 8 weeks, then we would have enough to cover for a lost ruckman, rather than bringing Mecklejohn off the rookie list.

chammond
13th January 2003, 09:51 PM
Meiklejohn?

Isn't he the kid who only got picked up on the rookie list because he comes from NSW?

I've never seen him play, but he'd have to be the biggest smokey of all time to get a senior game this season, even if Ball, Doyle and Goodes all broke down at the same time!

If anyone other than James or McGlone gets promoted, my gast would be totally flabbered.

desredandwhite
13th January 2003, 09:57 PM
Here's a thought... maybe the spare spot is so the club can save some $$$$ ;-)

We DID have something of a loss (or was it less than expected profit?) last year, so that could have influenced it as well.

robbieando
13th January 2003, 09:58 PM
Menklejohn was at the draft camp so he wasn't a smokey. A few Phantom Drafts had him being picked up. If injuries in the ruck bite like they did last season then he should at least get on the senior list and maybe even get a game.

robbieando
13th January 2003, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by desredandwhite
Here's a thought... maybe the spare spot is so the club can save some $$$$ ;-)

We DID have something of a loss (or was it less than expected profit?) last year, so that could have influenced it as well.

Or maybe the club still hasn't decided which young kid deserves a spot on the list ie Crawford, Menklejohn and the others. I'm not saying the spare spot is for Menklejohn, just that its an option open to us if we have another bad run with injuries

chammond
13th January 2003, 10:01 PM
I think you've hit the nail on the head, Des.

Presumably that's also why we didn't take up our full quota of rookies either.

desredandwhite
13th January 2003, 10:05 PM
six of one and half a dozen of the other, I'd say ;-)

guess we'll wait and see.

liz
13th January 2003, 11:31 PM
I agree its unlikely that any of Bevan, Meiklejohn or Crawford would get a senior guernsey this season, but I suspect all three are better prospects than Hill or Jajoura who were the NSW rookie contingent last season (along with Bennett, which was a bit of a cheat really). I get the impression that those two were pretty much goodwill gestures but Bevan was apparently very impressive for NSW/ACT Rams in 2001 (he edged out Schneider for the B&F award) before his 2002 season was badly affected by injury. Crawford was thought a chance by many to be drafted and was U18 AA this season, while Meiklejohn being a ruckman may be a factor if the team gets desparate. He sounds like he's already a decent size (94kg per draft camp stats) and then there is that cliche of "big men taking longer to develop". That may suggest he won't play seniors this year, but also indicates the club will give him time. There have been many cases of ruckmen, in particular, successfully making the transition from rookie list to decent AFL ruckman- eg Beau McDonald, Jamie Charman, Darren Jolly, Mark Porter, Ben Marsh (tho that one might be questionable!), Dean Cox etc etc etc

silent lurker
14th January 2003, 03:59 AM
I may sound pedantic, but McDonald and Charman weren't promoted from rookie lists. Trent Knobel came from the Brisbane rookie list though.

There are young ruckman who've been promoted from rookie lists who could make the transition to good AFL ruckmen.

eg. Aaron Sandilands(Fremantle)
Paul Chambers(Geelong)
Robert Campbell(Hawthorn)

TheMase
14th January 2003, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by desredandwhite
Here's a thought... maybe the spare spot is so the club can save some $$$$ ;-)

We DID have something of a loss (or was it less than expected profit?) last year, so that could have influenced it as well.

That is a possibility I guess.

But perhaps its a bit of both.

The 38th player on the list may not have been worth a Heath James or a Mecklejohn.
So rather than take it up with someone who is not going to have a bit impact anyway (and save money), they left it open in case Heath comes along, or we have ruckman trouble.

chammond
14th January 2003, 09:43 AM
I've got no doubt that Meiklejohn, Bevan and Crawford are all good value as rookies, and are probably as good as many of the players taken in the National Draft.

And the fact that Meiklejohn is on the rookie list won't, of itself, prevent him from getting a game this season as a ruckman - I've got no doubt that Mott expects to get a run in the Dockers seniors this year.

But "big men taking longer to develop" is a cliche because it is usually true, and I find the idea that the Swans fall-back position for the ruck is an 18yo rookie with little or no senior experience a bit fanciful.

But we are talking about the Swans - so I suppose it's possible?

And now I'm thinking . . . who would I prefer as our no. 4 ruckman . . . . Mott or Meiklejohn??

jude_boltons_babe
14th January 2003, 01:56 PM
im so happy that heath is going to be playing this year ive hear that ryan crawford isa great player can anyone tell me about Josh Thewlis

Jeffers1984
14th January 2003, 08:14 PM
Hey Guys! Glad to see RWO back and running

Neways i just checked the player list on sydneyswans.com.au (yeah i know not a very reliable source) but i clicked on the senior player list and it listed Ryan Crawford on the senior list not the Rookie list with McGlone, Bevan etc.

Check it out
http://sydneyswans.com.au/default.asp?pg=players&spg=seniorlist

jude_boltons_babe
15th January 2003, 01:31 AM
i hope they get more of the guys pictures soon i wonder how they will go in the seniors

liz
15th January 2003, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by silent lurker
I may sound pedantic, but McDonald and Charman weren't promoted from rookie lists. Trent Knobel came from the Brisbane rookie list though.

There are young ruckman who've been promoted from rookie lists who could make the transition to good AFL ruckmen.

eg. Aaron Sandilands(Fremantle)
Paul Chambers(Geelong)
Robert Campbell(Hawthorn)

Happy to be corrected - but I was pretty sure McDonald was. Admit I was guessing a bit on Charman and probably got him confused with Knobel.

gloveski
16th January 2003, 08:41 PM
leaving one spot open on the senior list could be a masterstroke......initially it will save money,aswell as giving the rookies all a slight glimmer of hope of being promoted if their form warrants it.


Just my two cents worth:)

Ajn
16th January 2003, 08:47 PM
The swans rarely blood new players in the first year anyway, so I wouldn't be holding my breath for their debut. Pre season will probably be the only chance to see most of them, last years recruits will be more prominant (such as LRT).

desredandwhite
16th January 2003, 09:11 PM
Who WAS the last player to debut in their first year for us? On the assumption they are not traded players of course.

IIRC it was Saddo! Played in the first game of 1998 (?) and has only been dropped for a couple of games since, in that year (I think).

Since then... Ablett, Buchanan, O'Keefe, Fixter, Kennelly.. all much closer to 2nd year than first.

Though there was Mott, albeit through necessity.. And he wasn't 18 either was he?

robbieando
16th January 2003, 09:16 PM
Look if we lose 2 ruckman, Menklejohn will get a game because after Doyle, Ball and Goodes who can really play ruck?????

chammond
16th January 2003, 09:27 PM
Who WAS the last player to debut in their first year for us?

Fosdike? Bolton? James? - all drafted '98 and played '99
ditto Simon Feast!!
Steve Doyle drafted '99 and played 2000.

Probably only Fosdike comes close to Saddington's record.

From memory, didn't O'Loughlin go straight into the seniors after being drafted?

chammond
16th January 2003, 09:33 PM
Look if we lose 2 ruckman, Menklejohn will get a game because after Doyle, Ball and Goodes who can really play ruck?????

LRT already has experience at senior level in the ruck (with Port Melb), and I believe he is bigger than Meiklejohn.

Schauble and Saddington both had spells in the ruck last season.

And I'm pretty sure that Cresswell had one hitout in 2002 as well, but I agree Meiklejohn would be ahead of him!

vagary
16th January 2003, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by chammond
Fosdike? Bolton? James? - all drafted '98 and played '99
ditto Simon Feast!!
Steve Doyle drafted '99 and played 2000.

Probably only Fosdike comes close to Saddington's record.

From memory, didn't O'Loughlin go straight into the seniors after being drafted?

wasn't it mott?

desredandwhite
16th January 2003, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by chammond
Fosdike? Bolton? James? - all drafted '98 and played '99
ditto Simon Feast!!
Steve Doyle drafted '99 and played 2000.

Probably only Fosdike comes close to Saddington's record.

From memory, didn't O'Loughlin go straight into the seniors after being drafted?

Ah, my memory skipped that entire year!! How bizarre :) So basically we're not THAT bad at playing the kids.. uh... if they're good enough, or deemed good enough.

liz
17th January 2003, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by desredandwhite
Ah, my memory skipped that entire year!! How bizarre :) So basically we're not THAT bad at playing the kids.. uh... if they're good enough, or deemed good enough.

I think its a myth that first year players haven't been given opportunities in their first season, if they warranted it. As well as the players mentioned, both Kirk and Bennett were promoted from the rookie list and made their debuts that season (and each was their first season at the club), plus Fixter and O'Keefe made their debuts in their first year at the club. Fitzgerald certainly would have had he not dislocated his shoulders twice.

chammond
17th January 2003, 10:50 AM
I think its a myth that first year players haven't been given opportunities in their first season,

Yeah, it was always crap that Eade didn't give the youngsters a fair go. But if an idea like that gets said enough times it gains a life of it's own.

Over the past decade, the Swans have regularly blooded their youngsters in either their first or second seasons, presumably based on form.

What has confused me is the few times when it hasn't happened - like Brett Rose, Dwayne Simpson, Jason McPherson etc.

Why on earth would you recruit a senior player and then discard him without even giving him a chance? To me, these are the real recruiting blunders, not the Russells, Tingays etc.

Bron
17th January 2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by jude_adams_babe
i hope they get more of the guys pictures soon i wonder how they will go in the seniors

Jude_adams_babe, here are some photos of the rookies: http://www.swanssupporters.org/cocktail%20party.htm