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PatFoyFanClub
22nd August 2003, 12:43 PM
Sorry to do this to you people's but "click on the link"....

Just when all this discussion about who gets the crowds and who doesnt reaches new heights....

Im sure this thread will become quite controversial......



http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=114574

TheMase
22nd August 2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by PatFoyFanClub
Sorry to do this to you people's but "click on the link"....

Just when all this discussion about who gets the crowds and who doesnt reaches new heights....

Im sure this thread will become quite controversial......



http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=114574

SCG:

46,168 Sydney v Geelong S.C.G. 1997
44,047 Sydney v Geelong S.C.G. 1996
41,731 Sydney v Essendon S.C.G. 1996
41,264 Sydney v Collingwood S.C.G. 1999
41,243 Sydney v Collingwood S.C.G. 1997
40,623 Sydney v Carlton S.C.G. 1997
40,131 Sydney v Essendon S.C.G. 2001
39,827 Sydney v St Kilda S.C.G. 1997
39,763 Sydney v Hawthorn S.C.G. 1986
39,318 Sydney v West Coast S.C.G. 1997

You do not rate in Sydney.

TheMase
22nd August 2003, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by TheMase
SCG:

41,264 Sydney v Collingwood S.C.G. 1999
41,243 Sydney v Collingwood S.C.G. 1997


You do not rate in Sydney.

Thought I would point this out too ...

1999 - Pluggers 1300th goal kicked. If Fitzroy had turned up we would have gotten that amount.

1997, at the height of our success in Sydney. We average 39,000 for crowds this year, so this crowd was not out of the ordinary for a Sydney match.


Once again, you do not rate in Sydney. Sydney people would barely know who Collingwood are, let alone care.

Dave
22nd August 2003, 12:53 PM
There is none so blind as those that won't see, eh Masey?!;)

Ruda Wakening
22nd August 2003, 12:53 PM
Pfft ...

I've already explained why C'Wood have more heads through the gate than other teams . You'd think the AFL could do a deal with two beenies for the price of one , for C'Wood supporters ... But i guess they spend enough money already, making six fingered gloves :)

Dave
22nd August 2003, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by TheMase
Thought I would point this out too ...

1999 - Pluggers 1300th goal kicked. If Fitzroy had turned up we would have gotten that amount.



Ah yes!

How sweet that goal!

That must REALLY hurt! :p

Gordon who?

TheHood
22nd August 2003, 12:59 PM
I read that and looking between the lines, the reality is that Collingwood have via the negotiating skills of the omnipresent Mr Maguire gotten themselves ANZAC Day and Queens B'day clashes.

Good on Eddie, he's going for the Bye Round now too so the exposure for the Pies increases. But the article is flawed!

TheMase
22nd August 2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Ruda Wakening
Pfft ...

I've already explained why C'Wood have more heads through the gate than other teams . You'd think the AFL could do a deal with two beenies for the price of one , for C'Wood supporters ... But i guess they spend enough money already, making six fingered gloves :)

Where is this explaination?

Collingwood have a lot of support in Victoria. Probably the most.

Their crowds are the biggest in Victoria, and this is heightened by the fact that they played the majority of their games there, which allows:

a) their supports to go to 18 games a year.
b) opposition supporters to go to 18 games a year

With this fact alone, that is going to push up Collingwoods home and away crowd figures (away being in Victoria).

Fact is, that outside of Victoria you actually DO NOT rate at other clubs grounds.

The pies supporters that DO turn up, and the army that will be coming up to the Sydney game. They are just same Vic supporters that go to the game down there.

PatFoyFanClub
22nd August 2003, 01:03 PM
Dave, Dave, Dave, whoopy do....is this thread suddenly about Lockett is it????

Who cares how we draw in Sydney......just keep clicking on that link....

And....do u think we really care what Sydney people think of Collingwood? Hardly.......

Remember we are two headed so that alone should make for a bit of noise......our presence WILL be felt........

TheMase
22nd August 2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by PatFoyFanClub


Who cares how we draw in Sydney......just keep clicking on that link....




You do. You're the one telling us that you are reason we're getting a big crowd. The facts go against your claims.

If the Swans chant gets going, you will not be heard. Nobody will even notice your presence in the sea of red and white.

Dave
22nd August 2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by PatFoyFanClub
Dave, Dave, Dave, whoopy do....is this thread suddenly about Lockett is it????


Hmmm. I why do I feel like this person is about 9 years old?

Whoopy do?

Anyway, I just wanted to reminisce about a great Swans moment.
Nothing wrong with that!

Pluggers 1300th must really drive magpie supporters "Nuts"


:D :D :D

BAM_BAM
22nd August 2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Ruda Wakening
Pfft ...

I've already explained why C'Wood have more heads through the gate than other teams . You'd think the AFL could do a deal with two beenies for the price of one , for C'Wood supporters ... But i guess they spend enough money already, making six fingered gloves :)

still lmao everytime I think of it classic post!!!:D

Ruda Wakening
22nd August 2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by TheMase
Where is this explaination?




Its here ...

" Don't worry Hammo, there might be 7,000 heads through the gate, but there'll only be 3,500 bodies . "

PatFoyFanClub
22nd August 2003, 01:18 PM
Dave, Dave, Dave......

Oh thats right he kicked 1300 didnt he BUT did he kick them all at the one club??? I think not.....

I think the sainters have bragging rights there too....

Too funny....:D

Dave
22nd August 2003, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by PatFoyFanClub
Dave, Dave, Dave......

Oh thats right he kicked 1300 didnt he BUT did he kick them all at the one club??? I think not.....

I think the sainters have bragging rights there too....

Too funny....:D

Since when did that matter?

If Buckley wins the Brownlow does that mean the Lions have bragging rights too?

PatFoyFanClub
22nd August 2003, 01:30 PM
Dave, Dave, Dave...

Now stop changing the subject.....now you bring up about Buckley....nothing to do with him.....and NO I dont think he will win it anyway....

So long as we have contributors and no passengers Im happy......isnt that the emphasis on your team?

Dave
22nd August 2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by PatFoyFanClub
Dave, Dave, Dave...

Now stop changing the subject.....now you bring up about Buckley....nothing to do with him.....and NO I dont think he will win it anyway....

So long as we have contributors and no passengers Im happy......isnt that the emphasis on your team?

PatFoyFanClub, PatFoyFanClub, PatFoyFanClub...

All I'm doing is shooting your logic down in flames. You are the one who introduced "bragging rights"

I'm afraid my friend, that every one of your arguements is flawed and easily dispersed with such ease that it's embarrasing!

I shall give you some advice:

NEVER MISS A CHANCE TO SHUT UP!

Joel
22nd August 2003, 02:05 PM
masey, the article is talking about this year.

TheMase
22nd August 2003, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Joel
masey, the article is talking about this year.
So? They still hold no records and aren't even up there interstate.

Their support outside Victoria is WAY WAY WAY overrated.
I have no doubt about their support down there however.

Joel
22nd August 2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by TheMase
So? They still hold no records and aren't even up there interstate.

Their support outside Victoria is WAY WAY WAY overrated.
I have no doubt about their support down there however.

Who cares? No one ever mentioned interstate. Having said that, we draw roughly the same as Essendon interstate, you cannot knock us for doing that.

SXP
22nd August 2003, 02:42 PM
There's one thing we have to admit that every club that plays good will draw a crowd and that includes Collingwood. If you read the article about so called blockbuster games you would notice that people don't go to those over-hyped games if one of the playing teams is crap. As I mentioned in one of my previous posts here that even people in Melbourne now decide to watch only those games that they find interesting, and that includes any of interstate clubs. Welcome to national competition.
As far as Collingwood being a drawing card I'd this. As long as they play well people will go and watch them, if they start playing like Carlton or Richmond this season, guess what's going to happen. You saw the stats from previous years.

Bear
22nd August 2003, 02:43 PM
when Collingwood play in Melb they mainly have two supporter bases at the game (e.g. Coll v Rich, Ess, Geel, Haw, Carl, etc) so theoretically they should nearly double ours in terms of average crowds* - they don't which proves we have better crowds as only our team's supporters can realistically turn up in Syd

in terms of avaerage home crowds, add this to the fact that many of our supporters cannot actually come to HOME games (i.e. the ave 10,000 Melb-based supporters that go to Melb games) and our numbers are even more impressive

in any case, we are by far the most supported team in the league, according to Morgan research (and common sense), and we exist in a much, much, much, more competitive sports entertainment market

* this may be too confusing for Coll supporters

footyhead
22nd August 2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by TheMase
SCG:

46,168 Sydney v Geelong S.C.G. 1997
44,047 Sydney v Geelong S.C.G. 1996
41,731 Sydney v Essendon S.C.G. 1996
41,264 Sydney v Collingwood S.C.G. 1999
41,243 Sydney v Collingwood S.C.G. 1997
40,623 Sydney v Carlton S.C.G. 1997
40,131 Sydney v Essendon S.C.G. 2001
39,827 Sydney v St Kilda S.C.G. 1997
39,763 Sydney v Hawthorn S.C.G. 1986
39,318 Sydney v West Coast S.C.G. 1997

You do not rate in Sydney.

Yeah but thats about to change ( in 3 years Collingwood will probably be in the top 5 at least 3 times) ,
but that is what is so clever and insideous about Eddies manipulation of next years fixture. He is writing himself and the Pies into the history of AFL in Sydney.
We have to stop this and take advantage of it as well. The way to do this is to beat them in Sydney, and to engender to hatred of them, so that people turn up to the games, but would prefer to defect to the Lowliest team in the competition than to the Phylthy pha- got Pies.

neored
22nd August 2003, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Bear
when Collingwood play in Melb they mainly have two supporter bases at the game (e.g. Coll v Rich, Ess, Geel, Haw, Carl, etc) so theoretically they should nearly double ours in terms of average crowds* - they don't which proves we have better crowds as only our team's supporters can realistically turn up in Syd

in terms of avaerage home crowds, add this to the fact that many of our supporters cannot actually come to HOME games (i.e. the ave 10,000 Melb-based supporters that go to Melb games) and our numbers are even more impressive

in any case, we are by far the most supported team in the league, according to Morgan research (and common sense), and we exist in a much, much, much, more competitive sports entertainment market

* this may be too confusing for Coll supporters

Not that I'm a Collingwood fan, I hate them with ferocity you wouldn't understand, but using that Morgan Poll research paper as a basis of your argument is laughable.

It really depends on what you define as support. For example if someone asked me if I supported the Melbourne Storm I'd say I do. This despite the fact I dont attend games, know only a few players and dont really care whether they win/lose. The extent of my support for the Storm would be the short sports bulletin during the 6 o'clock news.

The indesputible fact is that most people in NSW dont care for AFL, care little for Sydney Swans. I'm not doubting your passion for your side, but NSW is still a rugby state.

On the other hand when 800,000 people say they support Essendon/Collingwood the majority would care about the fortunes of the side and be REAL supporters to some extent.

Lastly I find it incredible that you try to downplay the importance of the major Melbourne clubs in helping your attendance. The fact is Essendon/ Collingwood play a major part in making the games at TS blockbusters. There's a certain prestige and pride and passion that reside in the clubs. Irregardless of our ladder position we would still be able to help you attrack attendance above your average.

Lets say instead of Collingwood you were playing Fremantle this week. The stakes would be similar ; a possible top 4 position... do you honestly believe you would get anywhere near the projected attendance for the game this Saturday? I think not, and if your honest you would agree.

TheMase
22nd August 2003, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by footyhead
Yeah but thats about to change ( in 3 years Collingwood will probably be in the top 5 at least 3 times) ,
but that is what is so clever and insideous about Eddies manipulation of next years fixture. He is writing himself and the Pies into the history of AFL in Sydney.
We have to stop this and take advantage of it as well. The way to do this is to beat them in Sydney, and to engender to hatred of them, so that people turn up to the games, but would prefer to defect to the Lowliest team in the competition than to the Phylthy pha- got Pies.

They are SCG games only.

TheMase
22nd August 2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by neored
Lets say instead of Collingwood you were playing Fremantle this week. The stakes would be similar ; a possible top 4 position... do you honestly believe you would get anywhere near the projected attendance for the game this Saturday? I think not, and if your honest you would agree.

Might not get quite a high. But I would suggest that it would be very close.
The only difference might be the 7000 Collingwood supporters travelling up. Assume there are a few other supporters in town, and we'll say that 5000 less people will come

Hardly overly significant.

footyhead
22nd August 2003, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Bear
when Collingwood play in Melb they mainly have two supporter bases at the game (e.g. Coll v Rich, Ess, Geel, Haw, Carl, etc) so theoretically they should nearly double ours in terms of average crowds* - they don't which proves we have better crowds as only our team's supporters can realistically turn up in Syd

in terms of avaerage home crowds, add this to the fact that many of our supporters cannot actually come to HOME games (i.e. the ave 10,000 Melb-based supporters that go to Melb games) and our numbers are even more impressive

in any case, we are by far the most supported team in the league, according to Morgan research (and common sense), and we exist in a much, much, much, more competitive sports entertainment market

* this may be too confusing for Coll supporters

I agree with this Bear and have thought it many times my self.
Which is another reasone I think a second Sydney team would be great. Imagine how many we could pull if their was a genuine inter city rivalry in Sydney !!

Joel
22nd August 2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Bear


* this may be too confusing for Coll supporters

It's easy to generalise without knowing the facts, isn't it?

neored
22nd August 2003, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by TheMase
Might not get quite a high. But I would suggest that it would be very close.
The only difference might be the 7000 Collingwood supporters travelling up. Assume there are a few other supporters in town, and we'll say that 5000 less people will come

Hardly overly significant.

You're missing my point:

I'm not denying the overwhelming majority who will be at TS will be supporting Sydney... its a given. However the reason why they will be there will in part be due to the fact that you're playing Collingwood.

Look at how Collingwood has been presented to the NSW people by the media. Its this arrogant side, that dont rate Sydney, the pride of Melbourne against NSW. This is due to the hate factor that comes with sides like Collingwood and Essendon, in due its part to the history and the attitude of the supporters. And of course the unique passion that victorians generate for their club.

With Fremantle , there is no history (very little), you dont hate them and you dont have this deep desire to beat them ... to stick it up them. This is what attracts people to games, they want to be there just for the sake of being there . So you can claim... "hey I was there when we stuck it up the pies".

If this was a Fremantle v Sydney game I would be surprised if the crowd was anywhere near 40,000. The fact is they just dont bring out the emotion like Victorian big clubs do. Your fooling yourself to believe otherwise

SXP
22nd August 2003, 03:50 PM
I agree with what you're saying enored, but you also must agree with the fact that at the moment the Magpies are playing very well and that is what's causing all this interest. Do you really believe they would generate the same level of interest if they were in the bottom half of the ladder?

robbieando
22nd August 2003, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by neored
If this was a Fremantle v Sydney game I would be surprised if the crowd was anywhere near 40,000. The fact is they just dont bring out the emotion like Victorian big clubs do. Your fooling yourself to believe otherwise

Your forgetting we got over 30,000 at the SCG a few weeks back to see us play Freo, so if the game was at TS, 40,000 would be expected

Ruda Wakening
22nd August 2003, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by neored


With Fremantle , there is no history (very little), you dont hate them and you dont have this deep desire to beat them ... to stick it up them

Too right, some teams don't even play them in WA ;)

Bear
22nd August 2003, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by neored
Not that I'm a Collingwood fan, I hate them with ferocity you wouldn't understand, but using that Morgan Poll research paper as a basis of your argument is laughable.

The Morgan thing could be argued until the cows come home, but if you don't think sponsors and TV advertisers take notice of 'TV viewers' as opposed to club members who turn up on game day, you are kidding yourself - in any case, this was an afterthought.

the basis of my argument was that comparing a club that plays most games with two club's supporter bases (Coll) versus one (Swans) is illogical. this is the point that you chose to totally ignore for obvious reasons

neored
22nd August 2003, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by SXP
I agree with what you're saying enored, but you also must agree with the fact that at the moment the Magpies are playing very well and that is what's causing all this interest. Do you really believe they would generate the same level of interest if they were in the bottom half of the ladder?


Undoubtedly the fact the both sides are playing well and the stakes are fairly adds to the hype/attraction. No denying it.

The thing is though Collingwood always attracts big crowds, even during their lull in past few years there attendances have still ranked 2nd or 3rd overall in the AFL. You have to understand that since many Collingwood supporters come from the Northern suburbs/blue collar suburbs of Melbourne, loyalty and backing your side no matter what are two major assets that they have. No doubt many have jumped on the bandwagon in terms of membership, but in terms of attendance they've always been in the top 4 in Melbourne.

So whilst the game wouldn't have received the hype if Collingwood were at the bottom of the ladder, you'd still be able to pull more people to that game then to a Fremantle v Sydney game.

As I've said I'm no defender of Collingwood, their supporters are mindless buffoons , and Eddie is an egomaniac ... but they draw crowds and beating them gives you a very fuzzy feeling inside.

neored
22nd August 2003, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by robbieando
Your forgetting we got over 30,000 at the SCG a few weeks back to see us play Freo, so if the game was at TS, 40,000 would be expected

Thats exactly the point I was making. But it wouldn't be touted as a sell-out and it wouldn't receive the media attention that it is.

Reggi
23rd August 2003, 12:06 PM
To be honesy Neored I got no idea what the point is that you are or are trying to make.

Doesn't make sense to me.

When polled more people say they support Sydney than Collingwood - and yet you conclude that they don't.

Makes no sense whatsoever.

neored
23rd August 2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Reggi
To be honesy Neored I got no idea what the point is that you are or are trying to make.

Doesn't make sense to me.

When polled more people say they support Sydney than Collingwood - and yet you conclude that they don't.

Makes no sense whatsoever.

Well if you are unable to ascertain the point that I'm making then thats really an issue for you to discuss with your therapist.