Mitchell watch

[mattybloods]

I hope we just get draft picks and no players in this trade

[Matimbo]

Mitchell requests a trade - sydneyswans.com.au (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2016-10-10/mitchell-requests-a-trade)

Looks like he lied.

[churry]

Even though this was an obvious announcement... It's still heavy.

[goswannies]

I hope we just get draft picks and no players in this trade
Yeah, I'd take this years first rounder and a future first rounder :mad: we owe Mitchell nothing ... and Whorethorn less!

[Industrial Fan]

He's gone. Bookmark it.its been clear for some time...

[mattybloods]

This feels different to other players leaving, I might give him a little boo when we play Hawthorn next

[Cosmic Wizard]

What if the injury plagued O'Meara was a smoke screen?

NO way; they would never let he say he want to go the Hawthorn and then dump him!!

I all very strange.

[goswannies]

This feels different to other players leaving, I might give him a little boo when we play Hawthorn next
Different yes. I don't boo players, but I have no soft sport for him (unlike the vast majority of ex-Swans). This one hurts like his dad & Greg Williams left.

[Blue Sun]

So the Hawks are getting Vickery, O'Meara, Mitchell and are retaining Luke Breust? How do they have that kind of room in their salary cap?

[AnnieH]

Outrageous.

[aardvark]

I never had much time for Tom. He's always seemed a very selfish player IMO. I hope we get something decent for him.

[Cosmic Wizard]

I never had much time for Tom. He's always seemed a very selfish player IMO. I hope we get something decent for him.

I wonder if this is all Longmire doing???

He was never one of Horse favs, always being drop.

Players have long memories.

[Dosser]

Id say the reason the club wasnt informed until today is probably because we did our delistings then gave him another offer for which he had the weekend to think about it.

[Blue Sun]

I never had much time for Tom. He's always seemed a very selfish player IMO. I hope we get something decent for him.

Unfortunately, there are very few trades that could make up for the loss of Tom Mitchell.

[Levii3]

I wonder if this is all Longmire doing???

He was never one of Horse favs, always being drop.

Players have long memories.

Yes, Longmire's fault we're 300k short on our offer.

[Captain]

No great loss provided we get something in return.

Reckon we need another forward. Breust or Sicily + Pick 14

[aardvark]

I'll dead-set stalk him and kill him.

1699

Watch out Tommy she's on her way........

[Pmcc2911]

I guess it all hangs off whether the Hawks are on the slide or not, if they are, then is an extra 300K a year enough to not play in another Grand Final?

[goswannies]

NO way; they would never let he say he want to go the Hawthorn and then dump him!!

I all very strange.

O'Meara nominated them. There was never a guarantee he'd get there (RO'K). Hopefully Mitchell won't get there either.

[RogueSwan]

This is @@@@@@. I know traded out players don't normally come back to hurt us (except, say, Mummy literally and figuratively) but I think this one will.

[Plugger46]

Amusing how quickly some fans turn. Now all of a sudden he's not a great loss.

Quality young player. Check out his Grand Final or his game against Hawthorn at the MCG if you need a reminder. He's a significant loss and we should be compensated accordingly.

[Ludwig]

I'm glad he's going. He would be facing a long club suspension for lying to Annie anyway.

We may only get pick 14 for Tom, which I think is way too low. If Freo get pick 23 compo for Chris Mayne and send that to Hawthorn for Hill, maybe we will be offered that pick plus Hawthorn's regular 2nd rounder. They have to save something for O'Meara. What I think is fair is picks 14 and 33.

[liz]

Mitchell's a very good young player but we're one club who can probably afford to lose someone of his type and not suffer overly. Just opens a spot for Mills to move into the midfield next year. I imagine the Swans decided not to go overboard in matching offers he received from elsewhere with one eye on the next contracts of Mills and Heeney (and others).

[Levii3]

Mitchell's a very good young player but we're one club who can probably afford to lose someone of his type and not suffer overly. Just opens a spot for Mills to move into the midfield next year. I imagine the Swans decided not to go overboard in matching offers he received from elsewhere with one eye on the next contracts of Mills and Heeney (and others).

+1

Sam Reid is an interesting one free agent next year thought he might me traded but nothing.

[longmile]

This is a big loss


+1

Sam Reid is an interesting one free agent next year thought he might me traded but nothing.

Longmire really rates him unfortunately

[KTigers]

For sure. You only need to look out in the Homebush direction to see what quality picks with some decent coaching
for the last two years looks like. And you don't even need to look outside the SCG to see what quality coaching and
direction from the senior players can do with a bunch of motivated guys off the lower rungs of the draft. It can help
you win 17 games in the H & A, and get you into a GF. Maybe we'll use the money that would have gone to
Mitchell to quietly sign Heeney & Mills to long-term deals as we did with Hanners & Parker.


I hope we just get draft picks and no players in this trade

[rojo]

I wonder if this is all Longmire doing???

He was never one of Horse favs, always being drop.

Players have long memories.

It did appear that way. I just hope he doesn't turn out such a big a loss as Mummy. We don't seem to have enough players who stand up under the pressure of GF footy. Tom played a better GF game than Jack and Parks and as good as Hanners,. I don't know why we don't rate him enough to try and keep him. I know the team balance argument and the others coming on with more outside skills argument but I guess we are going to find out how wise a decision it is by whom we get for him and how well they perform. Hopefully someone or two who can play as well for us as he is going to play for Hawthorn.

[goswannies]

I guess it all hangs off whether the Hawks are on the slide or not, if they are, then is an extra 300K a year enough to not play in another Grand Final?

It's a decent Melbourne investment property or a fair Adelaide residential property over 4 years. It's 114 years of my current household grocery bills (on an expensive shop ... every week!).

It's a decent car lease until he's too old to drive & covers petrol over that time too.

If your aim is premierships. Might not be worth it (though some would say the Hawks are still a chance) if your aim is setting yourself up financially ... I will begrudgingly concede. If you a traitorous mercenary who will sell your soul to the devil, I'll concede that happily.

Although I think that's just bitterness from me, as for an extra $300 a year and free morning tea, I'd probably consider changing employers! $300k and you would see a clean pair of heels & the door wouldn't hit my ass on the way out ;)

[Jeynez]

Unfortunate that we weren't able to strike a deal, but he is worth more than what we could afford, just sucks he chose Hawthorn of all clubs. But would rather lose Mitchell than Heeney or Mills. Hopefully we can get fair compensation for him, Pick 14 is not enough, maybe we can get Freo's first rounder from the Hill trade as well.

No bloody idea how Hawthorn plan to satisfy the O'Meara trade as well though

[swannymatt]

Damn Mitchell...... spewing.

[Primmy]

Mitchell's a very good young player but we're one club who can probably afford to lose someone of his type and not suffer overly. Just opens a spot for Mills to move into the midfield next year. I imagine the Swans decided not to go overboard in matching offers he received from elsewhere with one eye on the next contracts of Mills and Heeney (and others).Oh don't be so logical liz, its rhetoric we need now.

Mind you, with supposedly Talier back in, and we've got Sam and Sinca to accommodate, Zac has moved up the pecking order, Mills is organising the pecking order, Heeney is the other branch of the pecking order, AA is clearly a given down back, and etc etc, its not like we are going to be savaged by loss. And I like the look of Marsh. Robbo was developing beautifully. And AJ is back in the mix. Plus Tyrone, BJ, Newman, O'Riordon and Foote. Hmm. That'll do me.

[Ludwig]

I've been saying all along that Tom is a good player, but we don't need him. When you look at our list as a whole I feel that Longmire really didn't want him either. We will be a better side without Tom because those who take his place provide a better mix than we had with Tom.

Without Tom and Macca we midfield of Kennedy, Parker, Hanners, Mills and Heeney, with Lloyd, Jones, Jack and Hewett in the rotation. That's a very high quality midfield.

[Blue Sun]

Although I think that's just bitterness from me, as for an extra $300 a year and free morning tea, I'd probably consider changing employers! $300k and you would see a clean pair of heels & the door wouldn't hit my ass on the way out ;)

Love it!

[Mug Punter]

Mitchell's a very good young player but we're one club who can probably afford to lose someone of his type and not suffer overly. Just opens a spot for Mills to move into the midfield next year. I imagine the Swans decided not to go overboard in matching offers he received from elsewhere with one eye on the next contracts of Mills and Heeney (and others).

++1

I think we can accommodate his loss better than any other club given our midfield depth and we simply move Mills into the midfield, cannot wait to watch this kid rip and tear next year with a point to prove after a fairly disappointing end to 2016.

I suspect we weighed up the effect it would have on our ability to keep the likes of Heeney, Mills and Hewett and we decided to pass. It was inevitable we'd lose someone dur to cap space due to our Tippet and Buddy deals and I guess Tom is it. But on the bright side I think Tom is the only salary cap medicine we'll need to take.

I'm not happy about him going to the wees and poos given the way they snipe at us and then proceed to sign whichever players they like in recent years. But I can see how they can afford this if, as is happening, Mitchell Lewis Hodge et al are playing for massive unders. I do think they are a club on the decline but it remains to see how Mitchell and JOM impact their form.

It's a minor point but I also think it is week as piss that Tom outright lied to a loyal fan re his plans and I say it says a lot about his character so good riddance from that perspective. Why be a big time Charlie and lie, why not just tell the truth and say "I'm not sure rather than tell an outright porkie"?

In terms of what we can get for him our best bet is to try and engineer a bidding war with Carlton and given we are dealing with a direct competitor I'd truly prefer to send him to Carlton for nowt than the Hawks for unders. I'd still be keen on their 2017 first rounder plus an upgrade of our second rounder to the mid 20s but anything less a top 10 equivalent is not acceptable in my book.

We move on..

[Captain]

Amusing how quickly some fans turn. Now all of a sudden he's not a great loss.

Quality young player. Check out his Grand Final or his game against Hawthorn at the MCG if you need a reminder. He's a significant loss and we should be compensated accordingly.

If we are better or equally compensated how is it a loss?

[AnnieH]

I honestly hope that Hawthorn say no, we don't want him; Carlton say no, and then see Tommy have to crawl back with his tail between his legs (AND take a pay cut).
Like ROK, he'll get a one-year deal - in the reserves.

No moral character. I thought he was better than that.

[churry]

I like the optimism round here. Tommy was one of our best players in our finals campaign so let's hope some of our youngsters further develop into top tier players.

[Jimitron5000]

He will be a loss, no doubt but I think we can run Jones, Mills, Heeney and Hewitt through the midfield which will more than cover his output, plus introduce some more time for Foote, Robinson etc.

Also worth remembering that the overall goal of the draft and trade period is to improve the team so lets not get too excited over one trade in isolation.

[Levii3]

Without Tom and Macca we midfield of Kennedy, Parker, Hanners, Mills and Heeney, with Lloyd, Jones, Jack and Hewett in the rotation. That's a very high quality midfield.

Add Dan Robinson and Oliver Florent or Sam Powell-Pepper through the draft. Should get to prelim again.

[Beerman]

Surprised people are saying that Hawthorn can't afford him.

Who have they picked up recently on big money? Not Fitzpatrick, that's for sure. Their stars are all aging and probably on reduced money, and I wouldn't be surprised if they front-loaded contracts when Buddy left. It's not like they're paying him $1m a year.

[mcs]

A really disappointing loss for the club no doubt - but if it means we tie Heeney and Mills down to longer term deals sooner rather than later, then I'll be happy with that.

Of course we will miss him - anyone suggesting a player of his calibre can leave and not be missed is being very optimistic. But we are in a very good position

Assuming we get a first round draft pick for him in 2016 (it would not surprise me if its a 2017 one), I wonder if we might seek to put our two 1st rd draft picks together and swap someone for just 1 higher pick somewhere further up the draft list - just seeking to take 1 elite talent in the draft. Will be interesting to see what we can get for him and then what we do with it from there.

[Plugger46]

If we are better or equally compensated how is it a loss?

I didn't say we would be. I said we should be. We'll get unders.

[waswan]

Isaac Smith and a 1st round upgrade

[AnnieH]

Surprised people are saying that Hawthorn can't afford him.

Who have they picked up recently on big money? Not Fitzpatrick, that's for sure. Their stars are all aging and probably on reduced money, and I wouldn't be surprised if they front-loaded contracts when Buddy left. It's not like they're paying him $1m a year.

If I were Sam Mitchell, and Tom Mitchell was being paid more than me, I'd be pissed off.

[The Big Cat]

On SEN they are talking about Hawthorn offering a future first round pick. Fraught with danger I think, as the hawks may finish high again next year and we get shafted

Agree with Liz that of all our A graders, Mitchell was the most expendable. We have a plethora of slow inside mids with questionable kicking skills.

I'd be asking for Isaac Smith to be put on the table. We need line-breaking dash (like Gary except having the ball a bit more). I hope we don't get fobbed off with some list clogger like Hartung or Sicily or Whitecross or Duryea or O'Rorke or Shoenmakers or Langford. If they expect to get a top ten B&F player they need to offer one up.

[Captain]

I didn't say we would be. I said we should be. We'll get unders.

I was talking about your first line.

[Nico]

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, but I'll give Tom one thing; he has his old man covered as a footballer by a long way.

[YvonneH]

As Tom was uncontracted what is our position regarding playing 'hard ball', or don't we have any wriggle room and he can just go to the Hawks for nothing?

[Industrial Fan]

Its not good that he's leaving, and unless the club thinks we have enough talent to get the flag without him in 2017, I dont see why we'd accept a future draft pick. Our window is now, and Tom was one of our best this finals series and is only 23.

Likely whatever we get is unders.

[Nico]

As Tom was uncontracted what is our position regarding playing 'hard ball', or don't we have any wriggle room and he can just go to the Hawks for nothing?

If we can't trade for him he goes into the draft. I suspect the deal was wrapped up some time ago.

[royboy42]

I honestly hope that Hawthorn say no, we don't want him; Carlton say no, and then see Tommy have to crawl back with his tail between his legs (AND take a pay cut).
Like ROK, he'll get a one-year deal - in the reserves.

No moral character. I thought he was better than that.

I know you feel let down Annie. But no one in their right mind telegraphs major business decisions (and that's what this is).
Had he told you he was going, the world would have known , and that would have been an insult to his team mates and the Swans (and maybe Hawthorn if he hadn't already told them).
He may well have not known last Thursday anyway.
I think you may be being a bit harsh on a very classy young man forced into a corner.

[Levii3]

Highly unlikely to happen but we should ask for Cyril in the Mitchell trade. Just to see the media lose it.. Again.

[Industrial Fan]

Maybe Tom said he signed a new 3 year deal that morning, it was just with a different club?

[Nico]

It was mentioned on here a while back when one B. Mitchell vacated a position with the Swans, that he was on the move.

[Ludwig]

On SEN they are talking about Hawthorn offering a future first round pick. Fraught with danger I think, as the hawks may finish high again next year and we get shafted

Agree with Liz that of all our A graders, Mitchell was the most expendable. We have a plethora of slow inside mids with questionable kicking skills.

I'd be asking for Isaac Smith to be put on the table. We need line-breaking dash (like Gary except having the ball a bit more). I hope we don't get fobbed off with some list clogger like Hartung or Sicily or Whitecross or Duryea or O'Rorke or Shoenmakers or Langford. If they expect to get a top ten B&F player they need to offer one up.Isaac Smith is a very good player, but he's surely on bigger money than we were offering Mitchell. It's GC that want established players. We need low paid draftees to get us through the next 2 years until Tippett's contract expires.

I doubt that Hawthorn will finish better next year and are more likely to go down the ladder than up. In any case, you can discount a future pick by around 10%. I would take their first pick from next year and their 2nd rounder from this year, which is now down to 35 and likely to go lower.

[Mug Punter]

I know you feel let down Annie. But no one in their right mind telegraphs major business decisions (and that's what this is).
Had he told you he was going, the world would have known , and that would have been an insult to his team mates and the Swans (and maybe Hawthorn if he hadn't already told them).
He may well have not known last Thursday anyway.
I think you may be being a bit harsh on a very classy young man forced into a corner.

I'm happy to call bull@@@@ on this!

He could have easily said "I don't know, I'm meeting the club next week" and left it at that. Instead he told an outright lie, he said he had signed a new deal when he had done nothing of the type. He told an outright lie and whilst it's "only" to a club fan I think it reflects really poorly on him as a person.

[bloodspirit]

Well I think this is sad news but not necessarily a bad thing. Mitchell is an excellent player and that was evident from his debut which I saw (definitely at the SCG, I'm pretty sure against Essendon when he came on early as the sub) and he has only progressed since then. But on the other hand we have a salary cap and a list management strategy and a lot of money tied up in other contracts etc etc. It seems we just can't afford him. Losing him though creates a spot and a pathway for others (Heeney, Mills, Jones, Robbo, Foote etc) to strive to fill. Provided we get decent compensation it can be a win-win outcome. He is not the type of player we most need, however good he is. And from his point of view I can understand it too. He has a good offer from a strong club and doesn't have to look over his shoulder at burgeoning competition from within and maybe has a sense that he will be more valued there than here. Doesn't mean a few boos when we first play his new club are out of order.

Still feel sad. Not the beautiful ending we might have hoped for, him retiring after 250+ games for us and siring further generations of star Swans.

p.s. Very interesting to note that the low profile Jakey Lloyd finished one spot higher than Tommy in the B&F.

[royboy42]

[QUOTE=Mug Punter;713553]I'm happy to call bull@@@@ on this!

He could have easily said "I don't know, I'm meeting the club next week" and left it at that. Instead he told an outright lie, he said he had signed a new deal when he had done nothing of the type. He told an outright lie and whilst it's "only" to a club fan I think it reflects really poorly on him as a person.[/QUOTE

Ever heard a player tell journos (and fans, including me) that they were 'right..no worries' about playing next week after injury?

[707]

Sad news but losing your 4th best inside mid isn't the worse thing that could happen. What I do want to see however is a tough stance at the trade table because I don't know how Hawks get Mitchell and O'Meara trades done. In reality, Mitchell is worth Hawks first and next years first but I'd settle for their first two this year 14 & 34 (don't forget free agent compo keeps pushing out rounds after the first) if we can get it done quickly. If it's done quickly we have room to manoeuvre a bit more from then, even if it's bundling picks for a single higher pick.

If the 5 x $700k is true, that shows how inflationary the new CBA is and makes Buddy's look cheap!

[Plugger46]

Surprised people are saying that Hawthorn can't afford him.

Who have they picked up recently on big money? Not Fitzpatrick, that's for sure. Their stars are all aging and probably on reduced money, and I wouldn't be surprised if they front-loaded contracts when Buddy left. It's not like they're paying him $1m a year.

Agree. In a totally different position to us.

[stellation]

I can't blame Tom for leaving if there's a significant gap in the money on offer, especially on a long term contract.

We had to give Tom a fairly generous contract just to get him to come here in the first place- the GWS offer was reported as 3 years/$1 million, and from what I can gather we had to come pretty close to the dollars to get him here. If the gap is around $100k p.a. the Swans could probably argue that he already had been earning those extra bucks in those first few years at the club anyway. The Mitchell camp could probably argue "hey, we were looking for money from day one- we've stayed true to that!".

[tlock]

..

[rojo]

I've been saying all along that Tom is a good player, but we don't need him. When you look at our list as a whole I feel that Longmire really didn't want him either. We will be a better side without Tom because those who take his place provide a better mix than we had with Tom.

Without Tom and Macca we midfield of Kennedy, Parker, Hanners, Mills and Heeney, with Lloyd, Jones, Jack and Hewett in the rotation. That's a very high quality midfield.

Yes but we played a GF with all those players playing plus Mitchell and McVeigh and we couldn't win. Sure everyone is going to improve but so are all the young GWS and Bulldogs' players. We will have Reid and AA to bring improvement next year (out Laidler and Richards) but then we have Towers? Sinclair? Richards? Marsh? Robbo? Newman? BJ? Rose? Talia? to fill the spots vacated by Mitchell and Benny. Newman showed he has what it takes to perform in a big Final. Maybe Robbo or Rose can step up but I don't remember either of them standing out in the NEAFL GF. If we want to match it with GWS who seem to have us covered, we have got to get a couple more strong, skilled players!!

[ernie koala]

On the assumption that Tom's earlier statements were true & that he was happy at the Swans (so it comes down to $) no way we can afford Bruest.


I'm not so sure. I hope the Swans go after him. He's just about to turn 26, in his prime...Offer him a long, back ended, contract.

If we could persuade him to the red and white he would be a fantastic inclusion. He's durable, classy, pacy, and a proven big game player.

He averages 2 goals, 16 disposals, 4 tackles per game ...as a forward pocket.

Given it looks like Heeney will move to the midfield next year, and McGlynn is gone, he would be a perfect pick up.

[Legs Akimbo]

I can't blame Tom for leaving if there's a significant gap in the money on offer, especially on a long term contract.

We had to give Tom a fairly generous contract just to get him to come here in the first place- the GWS offer was reported as 3 years/$1 million, and from what I can gather we had to come pretty close to the dollars to get him here. If the gap is around $100k p.a. the Swans could probably argue that he already had been earning those extra bucks in those first few years at the club anyway. The Mitchell camp could probably argue "hey, we were looking for money from day one- we've stayed true to that!".

Well, I think the one thing we can be sure of is that he shops himself around and likes the coin.

[Ludwig]

Yes but we played a GF with all those players playing plus Mitchell and McVeigh and we couldn't win. Sure everyone is going to improve but so are all the young GWS and Bulldogs' players. We will have Reid and AA to bring improvement next year (out Laidler and Richards) but then we have Towers? Sinclair? Richards? Marsh? Robbo? Newman? BJ? Rose? Talia? to fill the spots vacated by Mitchell and Benny. Newman showed he has what it takes to perform in a big Final. Maybe Robbo or Rose can step up but I don't remember either of them standing out in the NEAFL GF. If we want to match it with GWS who seem to have us covered, we have got to get a couple more strong, skilled players!!I don't think we should base our list strategy on one game. It's not a reflection of our season as a whole. We are up there in the top echelon of teams and in the process of making of few adjustments to improve it. Newman and Rose played well in the NEAFL final and throughout the year. Robbo had a poor game, but missed most of season with injury. Based on comparative NEAFL performances, it is a good bet that both Rose and Newman are up to AFL standard, but of course it's always difficult to make long term projections so early in one's career.

The salary caps prevents clubs from warehousing elite players. It's a matter of getting the balance right between starters, developers and depth players at the right price. Mitchell is a player worthy of a big salary for a club in need of his talents. But for the Swans he's a bit of excess baggage. I want to see the ball in the hands of Heeney and Mills. They are much more damaging players. It's like have Judd and Dangerfield in the same team.

[Odysseus]

...
p.s. Very interesting to note that the low profile Jakey Lloyd finished one spot higher than Tommy in the B&F.

Very interesting, indeed! That would have passed me by if you hadn't brought attention to it. Jake is one of my (many!) favourites, so thanks for your p.s. (as well as your post).

[stevoswan]

Very interesting to note that the low profile Jakey Lloyd finished one spot higher than Tommy in the B&F.

I noticed that and thought maybe that was the clincher for him......'Gee, the coaches still undervalue me!' ......I thought he would have rated higher in the count, top 5 or 6 maybe, not 8th.

[MattW]

Mitchell's a very good young player but we're one club who can probably afford to lose someone of his type and not suffer overly. Just opens a spot for Mills to move into the midfield next year. I imagine the Swans decided not to go overboard in matching offers he received from elsewhere with one eye on the next contracts of Mills and Heeney (and others).

Yes, I agree. It wouldn't make sense to break the bank for Mitchell given we are comparatively well stocked in his position, particularly with players who will be paid much more in their next contracts.

It's impossible to know whether our offer provided him with a real option to commit to the club despite earning less than he could have at Hawthorn. Total supposition on my part, but I wonder whether he felt more wanted by Hawthorn and didn't feel that attached to us.

I'm not his biggest fan, but he is clutch. He tends to kick for goal well under pressure and obviously played well in the two biggest games of the year (although not decisively).

I'd have thought Breust plus 2nd rd pick is realistic, and Breust would make for a very handy replacement for McGlynn. Otherwise 1st rd, possibly plus someone like Langford might happen.

Finally, someone mentioned Mumford. This might be an unpopular view but I won't be convinced the loss is that significant until he plays well in a premiership winning team.

[0918330512]

It's like have Judd and Dangerfield in the same team.

Yup, if I was a list manager I'd hate to have both of them. If I was a coach having Judd & Danger causing opposition midfields massive headaches would suck.

Actually, opposition mids might not mind it, with those 2 taking votes off each other in the same side the Brownlow field might be wide open

[Hotpotato]

I'm sure Kinear and Co will have a few ideas up their sleeve post Mitchell ...
They pretty much impress every year.

[MattW]

I'm not so sure. I hope the Swans go after him. He's just about to turn 26, in his prime...Offer him a long, back ended, contract.

If we could persuade him to the red and white he would be a fantastic inclusion. He's durable, classy, pacy, and a proven big game player.

He averages 2 goals, 16 disposals, 4 tackles per game ...as a forward pocket.

Given it looks like Heeney will move to the midfield next year, and McGlynn is gone, he would be a perfect pick up.

I completely agree. I hope it happens.

[Xie Shan]

I'm happy to call bull@@@@ on this!

He could have easily said "I don't know, I'm meeting the club next week" and left it at that. Instead he told an outright lie, he said he had signed a new deal when he had done nothing of the type. He told an outright lie and whilst it's "only" to a club fan I think it reflects really poorly on him as a person.

Agree with this, the most diplomatic response would have been to say he didn't know. Only time will tell I guess. I suspect that after being notified of Tom's wishes, the club will probably consider its position before deciding whether to up their offer. It remains to be seen whether this will be enough for Tom.

[tlock]

Make Hawthorn pay a premium for Mitchell. Take their pick 14 this year and next year's first round pick

[The Big Cat]

Breust is on more dough than we offered Tommy

[ernie koala]

Breust is on more dough than we offered Tommy

Really....Then fill us in...

How much was Mitchell offered?..

And how much is Bruest's current contract?

Or are you just guessing like the rest of us?

[bloodsbigot]

If we don't get a fair trade for him and Hawks give us someone like Langford, I reckon we should just let him go straight to the draft.

I'll bet the swans accept something like pick 14 though. We'll get reamed.

- - - Updated - - -


Breust is on more dough than we offered Tommy

Plus lite and easy payments.


There's no way we'll get Breust. No way.

[aardvark]

Saints are rumoured to be offering pick 10 for Mitch.

[Billericay]

It looks like the GC Suns want players not picks for O'Meara (6-8 players are on the table). And GCS have high draft picks and should get one more for Prestia... so why couldn't Gold Coast swap picks with Hawthorn and send O'Meara and a high first round pick (6 or 8) to the Hawks and get pick 14 and a bunch of players in return. Hawks then send pick 6 or 8 onto us for Mitchell II

[liz]

It looks like the GC Suns want players not picks for O'Meara (6-8 players are on the table). And GCS have high draft picks and should get one more for Prestia... so why couldn't Gold Coast swap picks with Hawthorn and send O'Meara and a high first round pick (6 or 8) to the Hawks and get pick 14 and a bunch of players in return. Hawks then send pick 6 or 8 onto us for Mitchell II
Because none of the players the Hawks seem willing to part with would be of much interest to the Suns, not for such a high draft pick/O'Meara, anyway.

[Billericay]

Because none of the players the Hawks seem willing to part with would be of much interest to the Suns, not for such a high draft pick/O'Meara, anyway.

Hawks are going to have to give a decent player to GCS to get the deal done. I think someone like Breust will have to be on the table.
But I wonder if there is anyone on our list that could be on traded to GCS? Of the Towers, Nankervis, BJ variety?
Tom Harley said Towers and Nankervis were required players, but that doesn't mean they won't be traded right?

[Beerman]

Tom Harley said Towers and Nankervis were required players, but that doesn't mean they won't be traded right?

They'll be traded tomorrow is my guess, based on that commentI [emoji57]

[Mountain Man]

I wonder what improvement Tom has in him - perhaps kicking is the only weakness and Hawthorn has proved to build elite skills into their players.
He could become a very good player indeed.

[ernie koala]

- - - Updated - - -[/COLOR]


There's no way we'll get Breust. No way.

Probably we won't...But I don't run with... "No way".

Bruest(26 years old) was 10th in their B&F. Mitchell(23 years old) was 8th in ours...They are on a similar level, it gets down to need.

A swap of these 2, and some draft sweeteners on their behalf, would seem fair and reasonable to me......Assuming he would want to come to our fair city.

[MattW]

Hawks are going to have to give a decent player to GCS to get the deal done. I think someone like Breust will have to be on the table.
But I wonder if there is anyone on our list that could be on traded to GCS? Of the Towers, Nankervis, BJ variety?
Tom Harley said Towers and Nankervis were required players, but that doesn't mean they won't be traded right?

Notably, Harley only said 'hoped' they stay. Unless a player has said they want to leave or discussed leaving with the club, the club wouldn't sensibly reveal they're tradeable.

Having said that GCS surely wouldn't trade for those three. Towers or Jack are not going to improve culture or quality and they seem pretty well stocked for talls.

[Steve]

It will be fascinating to see how Hawthorn get both trades done.

They really only have late 1st round picks to offer - this year and you would expect they'd end up in a similar position next year.

That's where the generic talk of "1st round pick" is misleading. What Hawthorn have is only a slight upgrade on an early 2nd round pick.

Gold Coast want players, but Hawthorn are clearly only offering Box Hill players at this stage (Langford, Schoemakers, Litherland etc).

So I can't see how they're going to satisfy the Suns for O'Meara on his own, let alone giving enough to convince them to pass back a higher pick.

Regardless, even if we take picks 14 and 34 from Hawthorn (or whatever those current picks end up at after FA etc), it might be OK once you add it to our existing picks 17 and 37.

This draft is apparently very even through to about 40, so given our record in getting good players in that 30-40 range, 4 picks in the top 40 will be good.

[Levii3]

I wonder what improvement Tom has in him - perhaps kicking is the only weakness and Hawthorn has proved to build elite skills into their players.
He could become a very good player indeed.

Toms benefited greatly from being the fourth mid he rarely gets tagged and just goes about his business. At Hawthorn he'll be tagged or closely checked every week.

[Cressakel2]

Highly unlikely to happen but we should ask for Cyril in the Mitchell trade. Just to see the media lose it.. Again.

Buddy did say very cheekily at the AA awards that Cyril will be at the Swans next year...


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[Cressakel2]

I'm not so sure. I hope the Swans go after him. He's just about to turn 26, in his prime...Offer him a long, back ended, contract.

If we could persuade him to the red and white he would be a fantastic inclusion. He's durable, classy, pacy, and a proven big game player.

He averages 2 goals, 16 disposals, 4 tackles per game ...as a forward pocket.

Given it looks like Heeney will move to the midfield next year, and McGlynn is gone, he would be a perfect pick up.

Doesn't like the hard ball, soft as butter....Longmire and co will put a line through his name straight away! I actually like Billy Hartung - quick on the outside and tough as nails. Or that annoying rat Sicily - can play that boy...


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[Mug Punter]

Doesn't like the hard ball, soft as butter....Longmire and co will put a line through his name straight away! I actually like Billy Hartung - quick on the outside and tough as nails. Or that annoying rat Sicily - can play that boy...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No to Sicily please, A grade dickhead and loose as a goose from reports.

I think we'll go back to growing our own and if we upgrade four we'll have a good intake at the rookie draft too and I hope that, all things being equal I'd like to draft Sydney boys at the rookie list.

Wondering with the cash that we get to save from Mitchell leaving that we might try and expand the list to 39 and draft Ben Davis if he is available.

[Mug Punter]

It will be fascinating to see how Hawthorn get both trades done.

They really only have late 1st round picks to offer - this year and you would expect they'd end up in a similar position next year.

That's where the generic talk of "1st round pick" is misleading. What Hawthorn have is only a slight upgrade on an early 2nd round pick.

Gold Coast want players, but Hawthorn are clearly only offering Box Hill players at this stage (Langford, Schoemakers, Litherland etc).

So I can't see how they're going to satisfy the Suns for O'Meara on his own, let alone giving enough to convince them to pass back a higher pick.

Regardless, even if we take picks 14 and 34 from Hawthorn (or whatever those current picks end up at after FA etc), it might be OK once you add it to our existing picks 17 and 37.

This draft is apparently very even through to about 40, so given our record in getting good players in that 30-40 range, 4 picks in the top 40 will be good.

Picks 14, 17, 34 and 37 would be tempting though I fully expect the Hawks to be A grade dicks at the trade table, I really hope we play hardball here and not just because he lied to Annie:) I am absolutely sure a St Kilda, Essendon or Carlton will snap him up in the PSD and how I would love the little rat to end up trekking down the Mornington Peninsula each day for work:)

[Doctor]

He's dead to me now. Talented player but not part of our culture, regardless of whether or not you think it's a myth or not. We need to drive as hard bargain as we can for him, bearing in mind that this "club of choice" BS is making an absolute mockery of the trade period. It's just free agency dressed up as a trade period. The AFL needs to change it, but they won't.

[goswannies]

He's dead to me now. Talented player but not part of our culture, regardless of whether or not you think it's a myth or not. We need to drive as hard bargain as we can for him, bearing in mind that this "club of choice" BS is making an absolute mockery of the trade period. It's just free agency dressed up as a trade period. The AFL needs to change it, but they won't.

I'm hurt by his decision - but all will be forgiven by me if he does a RO'K

[Levii3]

Would be happy with pick 14 and round 3 or pick 14 and Kieran Lovell. Was taken pick 22 last year he's short, he's only 174cm but he average 35 disposals in his u-18 year. Tested really well in beep test and goal kicking finishing top 10.

Pick 22: Kieran Lovell - hawthornfc.com.au (http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2015-11-24/pick-22-kieran-lovell)

[Odysseus]

Picks 14, 17, 34 and 37 would be tempting though I fully expect the Hawks to be A grade dicks at the trade table, I really hope we play hardball here and not just because he lied to Annie:) I am absolutely sure a St Kilda, Essendon or Carlton will snap him up in the PSD and how I would love the little rat to end up trekking down the Mornington Peninsula each day for work:)

Dear Mug, This comment is most unkind. Mornington Peninsula is a lovely place. There's a cafe called the Rocks at Mornington, where I get my caffeine fix three or four times a week. It overlooks the bay and is very peaceful. I live on the Mornington Peninsula and would not be happy to see any rats in this vicinity. :smile:

I can agree, however, that I hope we play hardball.

[bloodsbigot]

I'm hurt by his decision - but all will be forgiven by me if he does a RO'K

I have never quite gotten over Ryan O Keefe to be honest. Not even after 2012.

Like Doctor said, he's kinda dead to me now (Mitchell). Alarm bells should have gone off when he elected our club under father-son ONLY when we offered him more money and needed to give his dad a job as a sweetener.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Well ...... what a 24hrs !!!!

Given I'd love to see Heeney and Hewitt rotating thru the midfield especially now tom has bolted that leaves two genuine spots in the forward line

Sam Reid
Luke Breust

Sam Reid will come back into the forwards as Longmire is a huge fan

That for means Breust plus a next year pick me thinks

We need to space out our salary cap with s next year pick but more importantly our forward line needs a Luke Breust

40 goals per season
Strong mark for his height
Gives us a serious forward rotation of targets

[707]

ATTENTION - I know it's easy to get carried away but this is the Mitchell thread not the drafting and trading thread. Can we keep drafting and trading ideas in the appropriate thread or we end up with two ideas threads going.

Mitchell going would have been planned some time ago, I'm certain we have a plan.

[AnnieH]

I'm hurt by his decision - but all will be forgiven by me if he does a RO'K

If he does a ROK, he'll be the highest positioned B&F player playing in the reserves.
Once you put your hand up to leave, you're gone. It's unfortunate, but it's a trust thing.

He's an idiot.
He should have gone to a club like Melbourne, where he is desperately needed, who could have probably paid him a little more, and been a Kennedy-type hero for that club.
Now he's just a number.

[grarmy]

What evidence, if any, does anyone have that suggests that Luke Bruest is available?

[ernie koala]

What evidence, if any, does anyone have that suggests that Luke Bruest is available?

None, other than he keeps being mentioned in the press as a player Hawthorn may be willing to trade.

But I read today that the Swans have asked for draft picks, not players. So we'll have to see what Hawthorn can come up with.

You'd think a minimum would be pick 14, plus an early 2nd rounder or a future pick for next year.

[longmile]

What evidence, if any, does anyone have that suggests that Luke Bruest is available?

Hawthorn have openly put him on the trade table

Personally I dont see how we fit him in

[swansrob]

Hawthorn have openly put him on the trade table

Personally I dont see how we fit him in
Hawthorn have adamantly denied either Breust or Siciliy are on the table

[bungwahl]

Hawthorn have adamantly denied either Breust or Siciliy are on the table

Yep - Hawks said Breust is definitely not up for trade.

No way we could afford his salary anyway. We'll be after draft picks, not players.

[Ludwig]

He should have gone to a club like Melbourne, where he is desperately needed, who could have probably paid him a little more, and been a Kennedy-type hero for that club.
Now he's just a number.

Actually Melbourne have a good young midfield with Viney, Jones, Tyson, Brayshaw, Oliver and Petracca. Hawthorn are transforming into a shell of their former selves. Hawthorn are getting killed in contested possessions and have no one to replace the aging Sam Mitchell, Burgoyne, Hodge and Lewis. They desperately need Tom Mitchell. He could even be their #1 midfielder next year.




But I read today that the Swans have asked for draft picks, not players. So we'll have to see what Hawthorn can come up with.

You'd think a minimum would be pick 14, plus an early 2nd rounder or a future pick for next year.
I noticed that the word 'picks' was used in this reference. You might notice that many pundits are saying that the Bryce Gibbs deal should get Adelaide's pick 13 plus a player like Lyons or additional latter draft picks. Mitchell is 4 years younger and has similar stats, probably better considering that Tom plays in a midfield with more ball winners.

So pick 14 and 35 (now) sounds about right to me. We might push for the pick Hawthorn should get for Hill if it's in the early 20s, but don't think that will happen. And Hawthorn will likely just offer up pick 14. It also sounds like GC will take next year's first rounder plus a player.

[Plugger46]

If we're to believe the salaries reported (all we have to go on), Mitchell was offered a similar contract to the one Sinclair got. No wonder he's departing.

[The Big Cat]

It will be picks only. We need salary cap space for Heeney and Mills.

Jon Ralph suggested on SEN yesterday afternoon that the Swans saw Mitchell as the fifth Beatle and they deliberately lowballed his salary to move him out to open up cap room for the up and coming youngsters.

I'd love to see the 8 players the hawks are offering to the Suns. Bet my backside they all play for Box Hill.

[AnnieH]

It will be picks only. We need salary cap space for Heeney and Mills.

Jon Ralph suggested on SEN yesterday afternoon that the Swans saw Mitchell as the fifth Beatle and they deliberately lowballed his salary to move him out to open up cap room for the up and coming youngsters.

I'd love to see the 8 players the hawks are offering to the Suns. Bet my backside they all play for Box Hill.

It's been well reported that the Swans would have signed Mitchell back in May this year, had Mitchell wanted to sign the contract. The Swans offered him what we can afford.
Mitchell was the one who put off talks until the end of the season.
Mitchell put his hand up to leave.

[Melbournehammer]

If he does a ROK, he'll be the highest positioned B&F player playing in the reserves.
Once you put your hand up to leave, you're gone. It's unfortunate, but it's a trust thing.

He's an idiot.
He should have gone to a club like Melbourne, where he is desperately needed, who could have probably paid him a little more, and been a Kennedy-type hero for that club.
Now he's just a number.

Simply not true. ROK was put up years before 2012.

Jude Bolton was also put up years before and no-one bid otherwise he would not have been part of 2012.

Dempster - our last significant father-son was moved on by the club and played for the saints successfully for years including as an AA.

The club as well as the player can f things up royally.

I'm content with him going because I think the club actually needs a much more thorough look at the game plan and in particular our outside run and foot skills - which has been poor since the loss of mal and rhyce. But it really does increase the importance of JPK to this team. However important he was before this week (and I'd go so far as to say he is the most important player to any particular club in the league) he has become doubly so if our game plan does not change in any particular way.

[Ludwig]

I'd love to see the 8 players the hawks are offering to the Suns. Bet my backside they all play for Box Hill.
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUkAnzALwF87KH1Uqvc5qSNRw1-761KYFyaUGN5_RXIcAO86OW2NDVdQIkZ5fY8fhAxxMhttps://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3727190359/9cce63ad22bada96343e976961a86df1.jpeghttp://resources3.news.com.au/images/2012/05/02/1226344/529647-jason-dunstall.jpg

[KTigers]

I've never heard this one re Mitchell jnr only signing on originally when his father got a job before, but if it's true you'd have to
think there may be a bit of baggage that comes along with Tom. Excess baggage and a jumbo pay packet. Maybe the pilots
don't want you on the plane anymore. This happens in lots of organisations.





Like Doctor said, he's kinda dead to me now (Mitchell). Alarm bells should have gone off when he elected our club under father-son ONLY when we offered him more money and needed to give his dad a job as a sweetener.

[bloodspirit]

I'm not buying the hate for Mitchell because he has selected the Hawks. I think there is a real chance that we just haven't been able to afford to offer him anywhere near his worth. It's one thing to accept a little unders but you can't expect a player to take big unders, especially if his teammates aren't having to do the same. I don't know what Hanners, JPK, Parker etc are on, but I get the impression the difference in $$$ is more than the difference in the level of performance between them and Tom. I imagine something similar happened with Treloar and GWS last year. Treloar would have stayed but he got the message he just wasn't valued as much as Shiel, Coniglio etc. GWS would have loved him to stay too but couldn't offer top dollar to everyone and they made their choices. I reckon that if the Swans came close to what Hawthorn are offering, Tom would love to stay; but we're not willing or able to because he's not worth as much to us as he is to them. Market forces in action. :(


Because none of the players the Hawks seem willing to part with would be of much interest to the Suns, not for such a high draft pick/O'Meara, anyway.

You also have to factor in that the player has to be willing to go and many Hawks' players will not be willing to go to the Suns.

****

In terms of trading with Hawthorn, I agree we need to insist on a fair deal (i.e. better than pick 14) and hopefully, with Hawthorn not being in a position to let Mitchell slide through to the Pre Season Draft, we'll get one. I'll leave it to our list managers to decide whether its players or picks but if we could get Breust I reckon he's a pretty fair trade (assuming we can afford to pay him) perhaps with some sweetener for us. Mitchell has to be worth at least as much as Breust, especially given he is 3 years younger and already just about in his prime.

[mcs]

I'm not buying the hate for Mitchell because he has selected the Hawks. I think there is a real chance that we just haven't been able to afford to offer him anywhere near his worth. It's one thing to accept a little unders but you can't expect a player to take big unders, especially if his teammates aren't having to do the same. I don't know what Hanners, JPK, Parker etc are on, but I get the impression the difference in $$$ is more than the difference in the level of performance between them and Tom. I imagine something similar happened with Treloar and GWS last year. Treloar would have stayed but he got the message he just wasn't valued as much as Shiel, Coniglio etc. GWS would have loved him to stay too but couldn't offer top dollar to everyone and they made their choices. I reckon that if the Swans came close to what Hawthorn are offering, Tom would love to stay; but we're not willing or able to because he's not worth as much to us as he is to them. Market forces in action. :(



You also have to factor in that the player has to be willing to go and many Hawks' players will not be willing to go to the Suns.

****

In terms of trading with Hawthorn, I agree we need to insist on a fair deal (i.e. better than pick 14) and hopefully, with Hawthorn not being in a position to let Mitchell slide through to the Pre Season Draft, we'll get one. I'll leave it to our list managers to decide whether its players or picks but if we could get Breust I reckon he's a pretty fair trade (assuming we can afford to pay him) perhaps with some sweetener for us. Mitchell has to be worth at least as much as Breust, especially given he is 3 years younger and already just about in his prime.

Unless they play for Hawthorn, then they are all playing for crumbs :rofl

There is no way we would be getting breust if we can't afford to keep Mitchell - he is staying at Hawthorn anyway by the sounds of it and not on the trade table.

[aardvark]

Breust has just announced he will be at Hawthorn in 2017.

[chalbilto]

I am extremely disappointed that Mitchell has elected to go to the Hawks but at the end of the day I don't begrudge him seeking a better financial reward. Let's be objective about the situation, football at the moment is his livelihood and all being well having a 10+ years career. If we honest withe each other wouldn't we all be trying to get the best outcomes for our jobs. All things being relative equal would we sacrifice a significant pay increase if the opportunity arose? So in this regards I say to him good luck. If we talk of loyalty, that has gone out the window. We scream and rant about how disloyal a player is to leave our club, but where is the loyalty when clubs discard or try to offload players when they are deemed to be superfluous of which the best example is Brett Harvey with North Melbourne. Unfortunately as the game has become a business, loyalty has gone out the window. Loyalty is shown by the passionate fans who stick by their club through adversity and triumph. Loyalty is the fan who signs up with their membership each year or barracks and follows the club when they are at their lowest ebb. Players show loyalty by fulfilling their obligations and giving their wholehearted best on the training track and playing fields as well as visiting schools, corporate functions etc. At the end of the day that is what they are getting paid for so give Tom Mitchell some slack. I do re-iterate I would have preferred that he stay with the Swans but as one door shuts another one opens. Let's have faith in the club and the recruitment team.

[Plugger46]

Spot on Chalbilto.

Players are just passing through really.

[Hotpotato]

Yep, it's a serious business, the fans want more Premierships, the players want $$$, they all train as hard as Buddy and Tippett, and if they are getting heaps less, so it's completely understandable, they look elsewhere.

[veramex]

I was curious - who is worth more between Mitchell and o'meara? Given o'meara injury vs you know what your getting with Mitchell I'm a little confused as to their trade value.

I think in the telegraph article saying swans are wanting draft pick vs players, it also mentioned they may wait to see how the o'meara trade goes to get a gauge on the value hawthorn has for these two players

[Cosmic Wizard]

I was curious - who is worth more between Mitchell and o'meara? Given o'meara injury vs you know what your getting with Mitchell I'm a little confused as to their trade value.

I think in the telegraph article saying swans are wanting draft pick vs players, it also mentioned they may wait to see how the o'meara trade goes to get a gauge on the value hawthorn has for these two players

Actually does anyone know if o'meara gets put into the draft by Gold Coast, does he get the rookie wage???

Gold Coast could then redraft him just to spite hawthorn and o'meara.

Surely he can't then ask for $700,000 when the other recruits are on peanuts ???

[liz]

Actually does anyone know if o'meara gets put into the draft by Gold Coast, does he get the rookie wage???

Gold Coast could then redraft him just to spite hawthorn and o'meara.

Surely he can't then ask for $700,000 when the other recruits are on peanuts ???

No, a player who has already been on another club's list is allowed to put a price tag on their head in the draft. I do think there are restrictions on how long a contract they can offer themselves up for - at least two years, I believe - to prevent them putting a massive one year price on their head with an unwritten agreement with their preferred club to then sign for a much lower amount for later years.

[bloodspirit]

No, a player who has already been on another club's list is allowed to put a price tag on their head in the draft. I do think there are restrictions on how long a contract they can offer themselves up for - at least two years, I believe - to prevent them putting a massive one year price on their head with an unwritten agreement with their preferred club to then sign for a much lower amount for later years.

Is this the ND or the PSD? I would have guessed JOM could choose but suspect he can only put a price tag on his own head in the PSD (which is undoubtedly what he would do). But I am not sure of that and happy to defer to you, Liz, who seem superbly knowledgeable about most things Swans related.

[liz]

Either

[AnnieH]

"Hawthorn currently holds picks 14, 34, 52, 70 and 88"

They're not "high" draft picks.
Looks like we're going to get shafted by whorethorn, again.

- - - Updated - - -

"Hawthorn currently holds picks 14, 34, 52, 70 and 88"

They're not "high" draft picks.
Looks like we're going to get shafted by whorethorn, again.

[Captain]

Reckon we will get picks 14 and 34. Bad result in my opinion.

[RogueSwan]

Has it ever been confirmed that Mitchell is leaving due to $$$'s or is it just a guess/excuse? I just can't see the Swans not paying a footballer they want (is this where it all falls down?) an appropriate wage? My gut feel, now, is that he was never going to re-sign and both parties are using money as the reason but I don't feel it is the truth. But hey, what would I know???

[ugg]

Has it ever been confirmed that Mitchell is leaving due to $$$'s or is it just a guess/excuse? I just can't see the Swans not paying a footballer they want (is this where it all falls down?) an appropriate wage? My gut feel, now, is that he was never going to re-sign and both parties are using money as the reason but I don't feel it is the truth. But hey, what would I know???
Since footballers' salaries are not publicly disclosed, it can only be an educated guess at best. If you believe the media report we are offering Mitchell somewhere in the vicinity of $300k-380k per year depending on which media outlet you choose to believe whereas the Hawks are offering $600-700k per year. If the discrepancy between the two figures are even remotely close to accurate, I don't think I could begrudge Mitchell taking the significantly higher offer on the table.

[AnnieH]

I heard we were offering $550-600K... what he's worth.

[Dosser]

For some reason, I had always thought that we gave him $1mil sign-on fee and $500k per year for this contract. This would make the Hawks offer considerably north of that.

[Mug Punter]

I heard we were offering $550-600K... what he's worth.

I think he is nuts if that is the case, he would have been much better taking a $100,000 a year hair cut for three years and then have a genuine crack at free agency in three years time.

Picks 14 and 34 equate to a top 10 pick using the points system as a guide so I think that is a fair deal. And you'd hope we'd be able to bundle our picks 34 and 37 at the very least for the Lions pick 21. Picks 14,17 and 21 should be able to deliver us some decent talent to the list.

[Ludwig]

"Hawthorn currently holds picks 14, 34, 52, 70 and 88"

They're not "high" draft picks.
Looks like we're going to get shafted by whorethorn, again.


Whorethorn seems the prime destination club for players just doing it for the money. Somehow makes sense.

[AnnieH]

Whorethorn seems the prime destination club for players just doing it for the money. Somehow makes sense.

But WHERE are they getting all the money from?
Maybe the AFL have told them (only) how much extra is being given for the salary cap for next year.
It's doing my head in.

[azzzr]

But WHERE are they getting all the money from?
Maybe the AFL have told them (only) how much extra is being given for the salary cap for next year.
It's doing my head in.

Havent you heard, the good guys Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis and Gibson are all playing for peanuts so the club can bring in young superstars! it's common knowledge between hawks supporters

[Mug Punter]

But WHERE are they getting all the money from?
Maybe the AFL have told them (only) how much extra is being given for the salary cap for next year.
It's doing my head in.

I am hoping that they are just hanging on at the moment. They're able to keep the likes of Hodge, Mitchell, Gibson, Poppy and Lewis for very low wages due to their longevity (i.e. they've earned a good whack and they're prepared to accept unders rather than retire and see 2017 as one final crack at the finals) but after 2017 I expect to see a real vacuum there and hopefully a ladder slide.

I also expect they use their business coteries to help "support' these players, I always wonder how much "brown paper money" passes through these peculiar Melbournian groups

[waswan]

But WHERE are they getting all the money from?
Maybe the AFL have told them (only) how much extra is being given for the salary cap for next year.
It's doing my head in.
how the @@@@@@@ are we in a trade period where the player payments for next year are not known ?
This is amateur AFL governance at its finest, how could we enter this period without the main issue of Total Player Payments being locked down ?

[mattybloods]

how the @@@@@@@ are we in a trade period where the player payments for next year are not known ?
This is amateur AFL governance at its finest, how could we enter this period without the main issue of Total Player Payments being locked down ?

Yep pretty ridiculous

[waswan]

Last time this was up for negotiation they got a 7% rise. That's an extra 700K, this time they are expecting north of 10%, which is North of 1Mil.

Surely 150 of that could go to Mitchell, on top of the 400 he is on ???

[Ludwig]

But WHERE are they getting all the money from?
Maybe the AFL have told them (only) how much extra is being given for the salary cap for next year.
It's doing my head in.There's lots of money in Whorethorn. Lots and lots and lots. Just Dermott Brereton alone kicks in over 100k a year.

[CureTheSane]

Amusing how quickly some fans turn. Now all of a sudden he's not a great loss.

Not sure where this is coming from.
For the last month there have been many people here who seemed ok with losing him.

Regarding Hawthorn, I have another 4 pages to read on this thread before I'm up to date.
I'm hoping that it's not full of sooks complaining about who they can and can't have and using the "they can't have everyone" line.
They have a cap. As long as they don't exceed it, then good on them.

[ugg]

CTS, there has been a rich history of potting ex-Swans who have left the club. The latest one prior to Mitchell is Membrey who has been labelled a down-hill skier for his good track record against non-finals teams.

[111431]

how the @@@@@@@ are we in a trade period where the player payments for next year are not known ?
This is amateur AFL governance at its finest, how could we enter this period without the main issue of Total Player Payments being locked down ?

fully agree

[WauchopeAnalyst]

What if the Hawks get pick 7 for Hill then they can send it to us for Mitchell.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[giant]

CTS, there has been a rich history of potting ex-Swans who have left the club. The latest one prior to Mitchell is Membrey who has been labelled a down-hill skier for his good track record against non-finals teams.

Tad hypocritical from the supporters of a club that has had a very rich history of recruiting players from other clubs.

[bungwahl]

What if the Hawks get pick 7 for Hill then they can send it to us for Mitchell.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Hill is barely worth pick 20, no chance of #7 unless the Hawks throw in sweeteners

[Industrial Fan]

CTS, there has been a rich history of potting ex-Swans who have left the club. The latest one prior to Mitchell is Membrey who has been labelled a down-hill skier for his good track record against non-finals teams.i don't get the Membrey one either. Would have started in the gf22 if he was still at the swans for my $

[stellation]

Membrey did kick a lot of his goals against weaker teams, though (said as someone who would love to have him at the Swans still!).

[liz]

Membrey did kick a lot of his goals against weaker teams, though (said as someone who would love to have him at the Swans still!).

Don't most forwards kick more goals against the weaker teams? Pretty sure JJK's goal average is a lot higher against the poor teams. I imagine Buddy's is too, albeit not by as big a margin.

[Steve]

Picks 14,17 and 21 should be able to deliver us some decent talent to the list.

Maybe we should do the opposite. Trade down for as many picks between 30-45 as possible - not for Academy points this time, but because we seem to have much better success with 2nd and 3rd round picks than our 1st rounders.

I'm half serious as I'd actually be quite nervous with a few picks between, for example, 15-21, as we rarely get those right.

If we gave Kinnear a bunch of picks in that 30-45 range, he might get us the next Parker, Hannebery, Reid, Hewett and Allir all in one draft.????

[mcs]

But WHERE are they getting all the money from?
Maybe the AFL have told them (only) how much extra is being given for the salary cap for next year.
It's doing my head in.

Plenty of it comes from the pockets of compulsive gamblers....

[mcs]

Don't most forwards kick more goals against the weaker teams? Pretty sure JJK's goal average is a lot higher against the poor teams. I imagine Buddy's is too, albeit not by as big a margin.

That is I would expect quite true Liz.

I think the reservations some of us hold about Membrey is that there is no doubt he is going to be a decent AFL player, but until he can prove he can do it against the best teams, then there will be questions marks about just how good he is. I think he is a very decent player and will continue to improve.

[stellation]

Don't most forwards kick more goals against the weaker teams? Pretty sure JJK's goal average is a lot higher against the poor teams. I imagine Buddy's is too, albeit not by as big a margin.
I imagine most do! I seem to recall looking at it a little while ago and Tim had a decent whack of his goals for the season against 3 lower teams.

Edit: 27 from 6 games vs. Melbourne, Carlton and Essendon. 17 goals from his 11 other games. Still a fine young player that I'd be happy to have at the Swans.

[Billericay]

Maybe we should do the opposite. Trade down for as many picks between 30-45 as possible - not for Academy points this time, but because we seem to have much better success with 2nd and 3rd round picks than our 1st rounders.

I'm half serious as I'd actually be quite nervous with a few picks between, for example, 15-21, as we rarely get those right.

If we gave Kinnear a bunch of picks in that 30-45 range, he might get us the next Parker, Hannebery, Reid, Hewett and Allir all in one draft.??

I thought the same

[lwjoyner]

see drafting. Maybe we could get mitch interested in blues if they loose gibbs and take their pick 5 or what they get for gibbs

[AnnieH]

Plenty of it comes from the pockets of compulsive gamblers....

True dat, but that money goes to the club, not to paying the players.

[caj23]

CTS, there has been a rich history of potting ex-Swans who have left the club. The latest one prior to Mitchell is Membrey who has been labelled a down-hill skier for his good track record against non-finals teams.

Pretty hard to argue against that on his career to date. He's still young so he has time on his side, and I expect he'll carve out an AFL career, but he'll need to put some scores on the board against quality opposition in 2017

Further to the stats above, 9 goals in 8 games against top 8 teams this year

[swansrob]

Looks like Hawthorn are freeing up cap space by off loading Sam Mitchell to West Coast

[ScottH]

Looks like Hawthorn are freeing up cap space by off loading Sam Mitchell to West Coast

Wow. That is a surprise.

I guess the Hawks wanted to keep a Mitchell on the park.

Hawk Mitchell set to be traded to West Coast - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-12/sam-mitchell-open-to-be-traded-to-west-coast-as-player-transitioning-into-coaching-role)

[rb4x]

Things are starting to make sense now with the news that Mitchell may be going to the Eagles. That is Sam not Tom.

[AnnieH]

Wow.
Sam Mitchell gets a year, then a cushy coaching position.
Boys club, or what?

[caj23]

Wow.
Sam Mitchell gets a year, then a cushy coaching position.
Boys club, or what?

He's probably got another 1-2 decent seasons on the field left in him

It's actually a great move for the Eagles, quality player in, weaken a contender, and line him up for a future coaching position, all for SFA on the trade table.

[ugg]

Pretty hard to argue against that on his career to date. He's still young so he has time on his side, and I expect he'll carve out an AFL career, but he'll need to put some scores on the board against quality opposition in 2017

Further to the stats above, 9 goals in 8 games against top 8 teams this year
You're missing my point, which was that the same player gets judged very differently depending on whether he's wearing a Swans jumper or not. I suspect he would have been lauded for the same performances had he been playing for the Swans. As liz also points out, most players will have lower outputs against the better teams compared to the bottom teams.

[Markwebbos]

According to Smitchell, Clarkson suggested it to him.

I wonder what pick West Coast would send in return and whether that would make its way to Sydney?

[barracuda]

Wow.
Sam Mitchell gets a year, then a cushy coaching position.
Boys club, or what?

Looks like a mature option. In a way it shows the maturity of Hawthorn to be able to look outside the box and come up with a win (hawthorn) win (Eagles) win (S. Mitchell). I can see that S. Mitchell was always going to seen as a future coach, and if anyone could judge that it would be Clarkson.

Smart play.

[dejavoodoo44]

Wow. That is a surprise.

I guess the Hawks wanted to keep a Mitchell on the park.

Hawk Mitchell set to be traded to West Coast - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-12/sam-mitchell-open-to-be-traded-to-west-coast-as-player-transitioning-into-coaching-role)

Uh huh: so now the moving on of Psycho Sammy, who was apparently playing for peanuts, frees up significant salary cap space?

[Legs Akimbo]

How would we have felt if Goodes had done this? Probably still have Membrey on our list..

[mattybloods]

Uh huh: so now the moving on of Psycho Sammy, who was apparently playing for peanuts, frees up significant salary cap space?

I was thinking that too, still a lot of space to be made!

[longmile]

Just glad the 2 mitchells wont be in the same team together

I was having nightmares already thinking about it

[Plugger46]

Not sure where this is coming from.
For the last month there have been many people here who seemed ok with losing him.

Regarding Hawthorn, I have another 4 pages to read on this thread before I'm up to date.
I'm hoping that it's not full of sooks complaining about who they can and can't have and using the "they can't have everyone" line.
They have a cap. As long as they don't exceed it, then good on them.

Fair enough, I must have read different things.

Spot on with Hawthorn. Looking at their list, it's very easy to see how they can accommodate Mitchell and O'Meara.

[caj23]

You're missing my point, which was that the same player gets judged very differently depending on whether he's wearing a Swans jumper or not. I suspect he would have been lauded for the same performances had he been playing for the Swans. As liz also points out, most players will have lower outputs against the better teams compared to the bottom teams.

I don't agree with you, there's plenty of guys still wearing the red and white who get potted as well, its just the nature of footy supporters. I think you'll find that if he was a Swan and continued to go missing in big games he would be flogged on here as well, probably even moreso than he already does. Just look at some of the commentary on here this season on Towers, McGlynn, Tippet and McVeigh as an example

As for output against better teams, to date Membrey's hasn't been just down, he has been a complete non-factor for the Saints. He may well end up a good 3rd tall option as a forward, but as we've seen with Rohan, its a difficult position and unless you are very top shelf you are going to get found out against top quality opposition (i.e. the type that you face in Grand Finals).

[Ludwig]

Tom to Hawthorn for pick 14 ONLY.

[Markwebbos]

Tom to Hawthorn for pick 14 ONLY.

Is that a rumour, best guess, or done deal?

[Industrial Fan]

How would we have felt if Goodes had done this? Probably still have Membrey on our list..no veterans list means this type of thing will happen more and more imo.

It might have been better 'business' but I would have been horrified seeing Goodes run around in a different jumper.

[The Big Cat]

How would we have felt if Goodes had done this? Probably still have Membrey on our list..

Yep. Another list clogger who we'd be trying to offload this trade period.

[jono2707]

Tom-a-hawk and Sam the Eagle - who'da thunk it?

[Doctor J.]

Tom to Hawthorn for pick 14 ONLY.

Screwed completely. Now you watch us use this pick to select another Meredith or Dan O'keefe.

How in gods name does the club see Mitchell as only worth pick 14. Drafted with pick 21 wasn't he?. 5 Years in the system and is a proven elite midfielder. My faith in the recruiters has been blown away on the basis of this one trade if it is true.

[bungwahl]

Tom to Hawthorn for pick 14 ONLY.

Only Greg Denham's word so far, so take that with a bucket of salt.

[Plugger46]

Membrey a list-clogger? Wow. We were toiling away with X as a forward in the back half of the year. Membrey is significantly better (and younger) than him at this stage of their careers.

[Dosser]

Screwed completely. Now you watch us use this pick to select another Meredith or Dan O'keefe.

How in gods name does the club see Mitchell as only worth pick 14. Drafted with pick 21 wasn't he?. 5 Years in the system and is a proven elite midfielder. My faith in the recruiters has been blown away on the basis of this one trade if it is true.

The alternative is that we dont trade him and it blows our salary cap out of the water. Unfortunately, nobody has sscrewed us but ourselves.

[Ludwig]

It will be interesting to see what Bryce Gibbs goes for. I think Gibbs is the better player, but Tom is a high production midfielder and 4 years younger. Their stats are about equal.

Looks as though we couldn't offload Tom quick enough. Harley must have really been pissed off with him for lying to Annie.

Another theory is that if we get too many good players the AFL will crack down on us and take something else from us; maybe the academy. So we have to placate Chris Langford and hand Tom Mitchell over to Hawthorn.

[mcs]

Screwed completely. Now you watch us use this pick to select another Meredith or Dan O'keefe.

How in gods name does the club see Mitchell as only worth pick 14. Drafted with pick 21 wasn't he?. 5 Years in the system and is a proven elite midfielder. My faith in the recruiters has been blown away on the basis of this one trade if it is true.

Its probably the best we are going to achieve - plus maybe a swap of later picks perhaps. Hawthorn haven't got a lot else they can offer, and we are in a position that we don't want an established player. Best to get what you can get sometimes - despite it probably being unders.

[AnnieH]

Tom to Hawthorn for pick 14 ONLY.

Screwed by whorethorn.
Again.

- - - Updated - - -


It will be interesting to see what Bryce Gibbs goes for. I think Gibbs is the better player, but Tom is a high production midfielder and 4 years younger. Their stats are about equal.

Looks as though we couldn't offload Tom quick enough. Harley must have really been pissed off with him for lying to Annie.

Another theory is that if we get too many good players the AFL will crack down on us and take something else from us; maybe the academy. So we have to placate Chris Langford and hand Tom Mitchell over to Hawthorn.

I'm really pissed off he lied to me.
Lucky I'll never see him again, because he's going to get a most-deserving bitch slap if I do.

[Ludwig]

I'm starting to think that there may be more to this than originally reported. The news first came from Greg Denham and seemingly confirmed by Anthony Hudson. But the fact that some time has passed without official confirmation makes me think that there may be more to the deal than pick 14. It seems that Hawthorn are waiting on the Chris Mayne to Collingwood deal to close, so Freo will know if they can send their compo pick 23 or so for Brad Hill. This implies that the finalisation of the Tom Mitchell trade may rely on the picks from the Brad Hill deal.

[Markwebbos]

Its probably the best we are going to achieve - plus maybe a swap of later picks perhaps. Hawthorn haven't got a lot else they can offer, and we are in a position that we don't want an established player. Best to get what you can get sometimes - despite it probably being unders.

There's a possibility Hawks could swap their pick 14 for Weagles pick 12 as part of the S Mitchell trade, but based on all the murmurings looks like pick 14 plus something else, possibly pick 34 if that's what Freo give up for Brad Hill

[waswan]

Clearly everyone is on the table at Hawks now.
Mitchell, plus picks for Rioli

[0918330512]

Surely it isn't that hard.

The AFL's waning golden child wants a gun recruit that will weaken the mid-field of the petulant Swans, but they don't have enough to trade currency to get the deal done.

Surely our list managers can say "Hey $#!+$patrick, if the Hawks give us their insufficient pick 14, and the AFL gives us back our COLA and removes that pesky points system that has hobbled our Academy recruiting - you know the Academy that we fund to develop local talent for all the other clubs to bid on? - we'll give Clarko his man. Oh wait, you stopped us trading for a year, you'd better throw in a priority pick - late first rounder will do and we want the Hawks to throw in a free ticket to their B&F ... and it must be a seat next to Tommy ... we'll pass on to one of our members ... she has a little catching up to do ..."

- - - Updated - - -


Clearly everyone is on the table at Hawks now.
Mitchell, plus picks for Rioli
Mitchell, for Rioli plus picks.

[dejavoodoo44]

Screwed by whorethorn.
Again.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm really pissed off he lied to me.
Lucky I'll never see him again, because he's going to get a most-deserving bitch slap if I do.
You leave him alone, Annie. I mean, ruptured testicles would surely decrease his trade value.

[0918330512]

You leave him alone, Annie. I mean, ruptured testicles would surely decrease his trade value.

Humph ... after how all this went down, I'm not sure he has any balls at all :mad:

[aardvark]

You leave him alone, Annie. I mean, ruptured testicles would surely decrease his trade value.

Don't they geld stallions to improve their performance?

[dejavoodoo44]

It will be interesting to see what Bryce Gibbs goes for. I think Gibbs is the better player, but Tom is a high production midfielder and 4 years younger. Their stats are about equal.

Looks as though we couldn't offload Tom quick enough. Harley must have really been pissed off with him for lying to Annie.

Another theory is that if we get too many good players the AFL will crack down on us and take something else from us; maybe the academy. So we have to placate Chris Langford and hand Tom Mitchell over to Hawthorn.

I said on another thread, that I' d like to see Adelaide offer Carlton Eddie Betts for Gibbs. But I am quite a sick man.

[waswan]

Pick #14 is a disgrace if true
Talk of Pick 6 for Prestia
Treloar is 2 1st Rounders
Id put him in the PSD for anything less then 2 1st Rd picks of 1St rd pick and player....
Even better if they parted with Sam Mitchell than we send him to the PSD

[troyjones2525]

Pick #14 is a disgrace if true
Talk of Pick 6 for Prestia
Treloar is 2 1st Rounders
Id put him in the PSD for anything less then 2 1st Rd picks of 1St rd pick and player....
Even better if they parted with Sam Mitchell than we send him to the PSD
When was the last time you saw us win in a trade when losing a player? The system at the moment is geared to heavily favor the side that a player nominates to be traded to because clubs have no leverage due to not being able to trade players anywhere else without their consent and risk losing them for nothing if a deal can't be struck. I knew as soon as Mitchell nominated to be traded we would get nowhere near back what he is actually worth! Our track record isn't flash but then again unless the AFL chances the rules on trading then it is difficult for all clubs with losing disgruntled players.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

[Captain]

I will be so frustrated if we let Tom go for pick 14 only. SHOCKING DEAL.

Given the Hawks have lost Sam, than we need to play extra hardball on Tom.

The Hawks will be more desperate than ever to get Tom so we must push back hard.

[CureTheSane]

Fair enough, I must have read different things.

Spot on with Hawthorn. Looking at their list, it's very easy to see how they can accommodate Mitchell and O'Meara.

Add to that the proposed Sam Mitchell trade to West Coast. Obviously they have a lot of work to do, and dumping a Brownlow medalist is a big move.
Hardly an indication of the 'family club'

Likewise, I'm wondering where all those commentators and general public fans are who were slagging off the Swans and implying unlimited funds due to COLA etc.
We are losing a great player as 'penance' for the Buddy/Tippo deals. Surely they should all be fairly happy about this? I guess if they raise the issue it makes them wrong in their cap complaints...

[CureTheSane]

Haven't seen the pick 14 stuff yet, until I read it here just now.
Ironically I was just about to post how the likelihood is that the club will 'do the right thing by the player' to get him to his club of choice and maintain the mantra of being a fair trader etc.
This is probably tainted because Swans supporter undoubtedly think Mitchell is worth more than he is.
Only way to tell is to post in a general AFL forum somewhere and gauge how Mitchell for pick 14 is seem by those without a vested interest.
A card the Swans don'r seem to play is the threat to trade Mitchell for the best deal, putting pressure of the Hawks to come up with a better deal.
Personally I think (through my rose coloured glasses) that pick 14 is a great deal for the Hawks. I guess what we do with pick 14 is the only way to know if it is a good deal.

Seems the Hawks are looking for a last run at a flag before a bit of a rebuild. They are getting older and slower and may just find themselves in the middle of the ladder if they aren't careful.

[waswan]

Id wait for Sam Mitchell to go to West Coast
Then id say to Hawks pick #14 gets Tom Mitchell into the Pre-season draft
And they risk being Mitchelless
Hopefully players minds have changed at Hawks about leaving now

[Beerman]

I wonder if the S. Mitchell to west coast move is partly driven by a desire to free up cap space.

Interesting that T Mitchell was asked about a move to St Kilda if they offered Swans a better deal and the money was comparable for him and he said "I don't see why not". So Hawthorn don't have all the leverage here - St Kilda pick before Hawthorn in the draft.

Also, I did LOL at the idea of Betts for Gibbs. You are a sick man dejavoodoo.

[Captain]

Id wait for Sam Mitchell to go to West Coast
Then id say to Hawks pick #14 gets Tom Mitchell into the Pre-season draft
And they risk being Mitchelless
Hopefully players minds have changed at Hawks about leaving now

Absolutely spot on. This is essential.

It wouldn't be the end of the world if Mitchell was forced into the PSD. I would rather this than make Hawthorn stronger.

[Ludwig]

Absolutely spot on. This is essential.

It wouldn't be the end of the world if Mitchell was forced into the PSD. I would rather this than make Hawthorn stronger.
I have a feeling that the deal has already been done, but there may be something additional to Pick 14 that is dependent on how other trades go and that's what's holding up any official announcement. I think the negotiating was probably done last week, if not earlier. Hawthorn's situation is very complicated and may delay things a bit. The 'extras', if they exist, may be minor, but will still stop the paperwork from going through.

[AnnieH]

Id wait for Sam Mitchell to go to West Coast
Then id say to Hawks pick #14 gets Tom Mitchell into the Pre-season draft
And they risk being Mitchelless
Hopefully players minds have changed at Hawks about leaving now

Wish you were doing the trade waswan.

[Plugger46]

Out of contract, we can't afford him and there's seemingly only one club in the mix. Why would we get fair value?

[waswan]

Pick 14 will be pick 16 at best with academy kids.....maybe lower with compensation
They can bash that
If Carlton are baulking at pick 13 and a player for 28yr old Gibbs, we can certainly do the same for 23yr old Mitchell for Pick 14.

Something else has to be at Play here ???
Richards (350K), Mcglynn (300K) retire, salary cap increases(1Mil), maybe a couple of others out the door in Towers(200K) and Nank(200K) and then Mitchell(400K) - That is over 2Mil
We have to have money. Funny when we were chasing Tom Mcdonald a month ago with what food stamps ?

[aardvark]

Pick 14 will be pick 16 at best with academy kids.....maybe lower with compensation
They can bash that
If Carlton are baulking at pick 13 and a player for 28yr old Gibbs, we can certainly do the same for 23yr old Mitchell for Pick 14.

Something else has to be at Play here ???
Richards (350K), Mcglynn (300K) retire, salary cap increases(1Mil), maybe a couple of others out the door in Towers(200K) and Nank(200K) and then Mitchell(400K) - That is over 2Mil
We have to have money. Funny when we were chasing Tom Mcdonald a month ago with what food stamps ?

We will need most of that to keep Mills and Heeney.......and Fyfe.:wink:

[waswan]

I get we need money for them but you still need to spend 95% of your salary cap, none of which can go to Mills or Heeney next year, only from 2018

[Cressakel2]

Pick 14 will be pick 16 at best with academy kids.....maybe lower with compensation
They can bash that
If Carlton are baulking at pick 13 and a player for 28yr old Gibbs, we can certainly do the same for 23yr old Mitchell for Pick 14.

Something else has to be at Play here ???
Richards (350K), Mcglynn (300K) retire, salary cap increases(1Mil), maybe a couple of others out the door in Towers(200K) and Nank(200K) and then Mitchell(400K) - That is over 2Mil
We have to have money. Funny when we were chasing Tom Mcdonald a month ago with what food stamps ?

Minus the $600k COLA we lose next season...

But I suspect Whorethorn's pick 14 and our pick 17 will be used for something big!

Maybe throw in Tippett plus picks 14 & 17 and Freo kindly give the Swans a kid called Nat Fyfe. We offer Fyfe $4.5m over 5 years...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bloodspirit]

How in gods name does the club see Mitchell as only worth pick 14. Drafted with pick 21 wasn't he?. 5 Years in the system and is a proven elite midfielder. My faith in the recruiters has been blown away on the basis of this one trade if it is true.

It's worse than that. I seem to recall he was touted as a top 10 draft pick and was actually bid on at around pick 8 (Norf maybe?) but we matched the bid under father-son rules and gave up pick 21. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[0918330512]

Minus the $600k COLA we lose next season...

But I suspect Whorethorn's pick 14 and our pick 17 will be used for something big!

Maybe throw in Tippett plus picks 14 & 17 and Freo kindly give the Swans a kid called Nat Fyfe. We offer Fyfe $4.5m over 5 years...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tippett, 14 & 17 for Fyfe?! Why not include Parker, Hanners & Towers to get the deal done.

Tippett, 14 & 17 for Fyfe! :rofl have to rename "the silly season", the stupid season

[Captain]

Tippett, 14 & 17 for Fyfe?! Why not include Parker, Hanners & Towers to get the deal done.

Tippett, 14 & 17 for Fyfe! :rofl have to rename "the silly season", the stupid season

I'm confused? Are you saying it's a bad deal for who?

IMO - We would be laughing to get Fyfe for Tippett and 14+17. Freo would never go for it.

[neilfws]

This thread is updating fast, maybe someone posted this story already and I missed it. If so mods, please delete.

Tom Mitchell squeezed out of heavily loaded Sydney Swans salary cap (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/sydney-swans/tom-mitchell-squeezed-out-of-heavily-loaded-sydney-swans-salary-cap-20161011-grznvd.html)

Seems the media have no doubt where the difficulty lies in retaining Mitchell.

[Plugger46]

I'm confused? Are you saying it's a bad deal for who?

IMO - We would be laughing to get Fyfe for Tippett and 14+17. Freo would never go for it.

Yeah, that's the sort of steal that might have happened 20 years ago. Not now.

[dejavoodoo44]

I wonder if the S. Mitchell to west coast move is partly driven by a desire to free up cap space.

Interesting that T Mitchell was asked about a move to St Kilda if they offered Swans a better deal and the money was comparable for him and he said "I don't see why not". So Hawthorn don't have all the leverage here - St Kilda pick before Hawthorn in the draft.

Also, I did LOL at the idea of Betts for Gibbs. You are a sick man dejavoodoo.
Thank you, I always take "sick man" as a compliment.
And it would be nice, if Mitchell ended up at St Kilda, rather than Hawthorn.

[Ludwig]

If you look at our situation it becomes clear that we felt Mitchell was expendable. We needed to drop at least one star player from our list given we have 6 years left of big bucks for Buddy and another 2 for Tippett. Then we have Kennedy, Parker and Hanners on sizable contracts with guys like Heeney and Mills, who will also want big long term contracts. There are also plenty of others who will be on good money as well. We will probably want to extend Reid's contract if he comes through next year. Guys like Rampe, Smith, Jones, Rohan and Lloyd will all receive offers when they come out of contract. It's really hard to keep everyone. You have to let the ones go if you feel they can be covered by other players. Tom Mitchell and O'Meara ARE the future of the Hawthorn midfield. They really don't have any obvious stars once the current aging lot retire, while we have plenty of players who can step in and fill Tom's boots.

One possibility that would make sense is that we swap our second round pick for Freo's compo pick for Chris Mayne, which will go to Hawthorn for Brad Hill (#23 or 24). That would make the deal worth around a pick 8 or 9 net. I think that would be fair.

I think going into this draft with picks 14, 17 and 24 will get a good haul of quality players to add to our current list.

Maybe we keep Towers because we need players to trade out next year.

[Melbournehammer]

I wish people would stop carrying on about fyfe.

We have a salary cap squeeze. and if what I have seen about buddy's contract is true then its going to get worse before it gets better. Plus we have tippett for two more years on reasonable dollars as well as sinclair who'll probably be balancing time in the ones with time in the neafl.

the idea that you can just use the new $1m on new players ignores the fact that every other club is gettin $1 m as well and they can make offers to your undervalued in the market place players.

its time to look at our list less in terms of who else is out there but how do we retain all of those we want to retain

[bloodspirit]

Not sure if this is the best place to ask but does anyone have any idea what sorts of things make up the 'performance indicators' that can trigger a contract extension? I'm sure it can vary from contract to contract but does anyone actually know (not just guessing) what sorts of conditions are ever in these contracts? Number of games selected? Finish place in B&F? I'm not sure what else is sufficiently objective and even these are things that could be easily manipulated by the coaching staff. The thing that made me think of it was reading that Tippett has triggered the 2 year extension in his 4 + 2 year contract. Given he has had a number of injuries along the way that have affected the number of games he has played and his form it made me think what does it depend on. And you hear about it with other players too e.g. apparently Bartel has triggered an option to extend his career at Geelong at least another year.

[Doctor]

People also seem to be forgetting that we can trade for future picks. Why not Pick 14 plus their first or second round pick next year?

[ugg]

Because they'll probably need those future picks to trade for O'Meara

[Doctor]

Doesn't stop us asking for them.

[AnnieH]

Not sure if this is the best place to ask but does anyone have any idea what sorts of things make up the 'performance indicators' that can trigger a contract extension? I'm sure it can vary from contract to contract but does anyone actually know (not just guessing) what sorts of conditions are ever in these contracts? Number of games selected? Finish place in B&F? I'm not sure what else is sufficiently objective and even these are things that could be easily manipulated by the coaching staff. The thing that made me think of it was reading that Tippett has triggered the 2 year extension in his 4 + 2 year contract. Given he has had a number of injuries along the way that have affected the number of games he has played and his form it made me think what does it depend on. And you hear about it with other players too e.g. apparently Bartel has triggered an option to extend his career at Geelong at least another year.

Don't hang around Double Bay.

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People also seem to be forgetting that we can trade for future picks. Why not Pick 14 plus their first or second round pick next year?

Because that's the world's biggest gamble.
You would only trade out a player with future picks if that player were going to a bottom 8 club... their picks are, obviously, higher.
Whorethorn will probably finish in the top 8 again next year... their first pick could be 19.
The object is to get a top-10 pick. Everything after that is a massive gamble.

[crackedactor]

This thread is updating fast, maybe someone posted this story already and I missed it. If so mods, please delete.

Tom Mitchell squeezed out of heavily loaded Sydney Swans salary cap (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/sydney-swans/tom-mitchell-squeezed-out-of-heavily-loaded-sydney-swans-salary-cap-20161011-grznvd.html)

Seems the media have no doubt where the difficulty lies in retaining Mitchell.

I could be wrong, but I believe 2017 is one of the years that Buddy gets a extra sweetener into his pay packet.? That probably did not help with the salary issue with TM.

[waswan]

pick 14 and later picks exchange.....what a joke

[WauchopeAnalyst]

1703

[Cheer_Cheer]

TOM MITCHELL TO THE HAWKS AGREED IN PRINCIPLE

Hawthorn has confirmed an "in-principle" deal with the Sydney Swans has been reached for Tom Mitchell to join the Hawks.

The deal involves the Swans receiving the Hawks' pick No.14 in this year's NAB AFL Draft. The club's have also agreed to swap later picks in a trade that will be formalised next week.

Hawthorn list manager Graham Wright confirmed the news on the club's website.

"We are excited to have an in principle deal done with the Sydney Swans for Tom Mitchell to join the Hawks for the 2017 season and beyond.

"Tom has had a fantastic season for the Swans, particularly in the second half of the year.

"He's a high quality person and at only 23 years of age has plenty of football ahead of him.

"Tom has the flexibility to play multiple positions but we believe he'll primarily play as an inside midfielder."

[stevoswan]

Here's the latest from afl.com.au:"Hawthorn has confirmed an "in-principle" deal with the Sydney Swans has been reached for Tom Mitchell to join the Hawks.

The deal involves the Swans receiving the Hawks' pick No.14 in this year's NAB AFL Draft. The club's have also agreed to swap later picks in a trade that will be formalised next week." ........:hmmmm2:Ripped off or what?!!

[waswan]

unless that 14 or our current 17 is to be used later for a trade, that is a disgrace
look at what Carlton just knocked back for gibbs....... pathetic Beatson

I agree we can survive without him although id like him to stay but GWS are demanding top ten picks for guys that haven't even played yet and then Prestia rumoured for a Pick 6

[Dan]

The deal involves the Swans receiving the Hawks' pick No.14 in this year's NAB AFL Draft. The club's have also agreed to swap later picks in a trade that will be formalised next week." ........:hmmmm2:Ripped off or what?!!

Depends, if we swap say a 4th rounder for a 2nd rounder that might be ok. He was out of contract, that always lessens a players value.

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unless that 14 or our current 17 is to be used later for a trade, that is a disgrace
look at what Carlton just knocked back for gibbs....... pathetic Beatson

Gibbs is still contracted for 3 years, completely different scenario

[waswan]

apparently pick 14 was going to be for Hanley, why don't we go pick 17 and towers for Hanley ?

[waswan]

fair call with Gibbs, Prestia/Marchbank a more true comparison......we still getting screwed here

[troyjones2525]

It was always going to happen. I don't know why people expected more when they really don't have anything else better to give us and held all the leverage.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

[bloodsbigot]

As I thought, no Breust and bent over big time. Weak swans. Very weak.

[rb4x]

It does not say which club is going to benefit from the later picks exchange. Hope we are not sweetening the deal for them.

[Dosser]

We are all so much better at list management than Beatson.

[bloodsbigot]

It's worrying that the other Mitchell goes to West Coast on the same day.

Hawks have a plan to replace Mitchell with Mitchell.

[mcs]

As I thought, no Breust and bent over big time. Weak swans. Very weak.

Breust was never ever going to be on the table - it is irrational to think that he might have been.

[goswannies]

The paperwork hasn't been done. I'd just love to see the Swans renege at the last minute.

[Ludwig]

apparently pick 14 was going to be for Hanley, why don't we go pick 17 and towers for Hanley ?We can get someone as good or better than Hanley with pick 17 alone. Plus he will be on a low wage compared to the 600k that Hanley will be looking for. The whole idea of trading Mitchell was to lower the wage base till we get through the Tippett squeeze in 2 years.

[bungwahl]

Would you have taken pick 9 for Mitchell?

That's essentially where I think he's been valued. I assume the delay in announcing the pick swap is due to the Hawks waiting to see which pick they receive for Hill, which is expected to be the Mayne compo pick (23). Swans would then swap our 2nd rounder.

14 + 23 for Mitchell + 38.

Values Mitchell at pick 9.

If it turns out to be their 2nd (35) for our 3rd (56), then it's still a pick 9 valuation.

[giant]

Recent pick 14s:
- Hapwood
- Lever
- McCarthy
- Corr
- Devon Smith (GWS have owned 14...)
- Brodie Smtih
- our very own Lewis Jetta

Could live with many of those.

[SeanM]

I think pick 14 is great.

Apparently it is a even draft. I like that we have got two picks around the same rank. We can take a gamble with one of the picks.

We can take two different types of midfielders. Or take the best midfielder then use the other one on another position we would not usually use an early pick on.

[stevoswan]

According to Travis King(afl.com.au) : "The Swans will hold picks 14, 17, 38 and 56 in the upcoming draft once the Mitchell swap goes through."

[bungwahl]

According to Travis King(afl.com.au) : "The Swans will hold picks 14, 17, 38 and 56 in the upcoming draft once the Mitchell swap goes through."

That's before any other pick swap.

[stevoswan]

That's before any other pick swap.

I believe so......

[waswan]

The pick valuation only means anything if you banking for academy kids.
Id take Pick 9 straight up over 14 and 23

[The Big Cat]

As I thought, no Breust and bent over big time. Weak swans. Very weak.

WE are trading our number 5 ranked midfielder for a first round pick. I can live with that especially as Heeney and Mills would have gone straight past him next year.

Hawthorn saying TM has the flexibility to play several positions. NO HE HASN"T. He's a slow inside mid - full stop.

[waswan]

We are trading the 2nd best midfielder of our finals series.
When you lose 2 of the last 3 GF that has to be a consideration.
No point dominating the year and not turning up when it counts, TM more than did his heavy lifting this finals campaign

[Levii3]

Hawthorn saying TM has the flexibility to play several positions. NO HE HASN"T. He's a slow inside mid - full stop.

Could not stop laughing when i read this so true:rofl:rofl. The least versatile player on the list that includes rucks and most of the reserves boys.

[Steve]

I suspect our position is that a level of goodwill is created by trying to be reasonable when players want to be traded. We present as 'good employers' when trying to recruit others, and our current players feel good about a club that would still be reasonable if their situation changed and they wanted to leave.

Unfortunately the decent players we have leave too often go to better clubs who have ordinary picks, like Jolly to Collingwood who were going well at the time.

Swapping later picks with Hawthorn this year though seems fairly pointless. Our last usable pick is currently 56 given we traded our 4th rounder last year for Talia - so unless we swap 56 for Hawthorn's 35, any other upgrade is negligible given Hawthorn are only 3 picks ahead of us in the other rounds (and West Coast are only 2 picks ahead of that - re: what Hawthorn might get for S.Mitchell).

If we're going to swap picks, I'd rather do that with future picks and take a punt on Hawthorn slipping further in 2017.

Maybe swap their 2nd rounder for our 3rd rounder next year. Worst case that would be similar to this year and be our pick in the 50's for theirs in the high 30's. But if they do slip, we'd be getting a pick in the low 30's.

[Jeynez]

We'll just have to wait and see how the remaining pick swaps turn out. Would be fairly content if we could get another 2nd round pick, especially given how good we've been at drafting in the 2nd round. Still unders for Mitchell, but was always going to be that way once he nominated the Hawks

[goswannies]

I often thought he was a bit slow of foot, was reluctant to kick & his hands were frequently dinky close in that put teammates under pressure.
But towards the end, he kicked more, his hands looked sharper. Still sluggish legs but made up for by clever hands and a little more evasive. Some of his silky skills at the back end of the season were sublime, a delight to watch.
I'm miffed that he's going ... especially to whorethorn ... I'm miffed at the family history of them leaving ... really miffed we didn't get 100 games out of him. But I'll miss him as a player and (prior to his traitorous, rat-bastardly defection) he seemed like a nice guy.
But I probably dislike whorethorn & the AFL more for yet another crappy trade.

[lwjoyner]

Swans SCREWED again. What happens is hawks get pick seven from Freo for Hill (or swap 14 for 7 does this mean 7 becomes ours) Why not wait until Hill deal finished and we know the outcome. Hawthorn know we are weak very disappointing news.

[DA_Swan]

Never like seeing good "footballers" leave and we have not lost many over the years especially when they improve as much TM did this year - will probably win a Brownlow at the Hawks - good luck to him except against the Swans

[goswannies]

Swans SCREWED again. What happens is hawks get pick seven from Freo for Hill (or swap 14 for 7 does this mean 7 becomes ours) Why not wait until Hill deal finished and we know the outcome. Hawthorn know we are weak very disappointing news.
It's only an in-principle agreement we reached. Nothing signed. We can back out any time we want ... like when they secure a higher pick for Hill. DO IT SWANS!! Pleeeease play the man for once!!

[goswannies]

Never like seeing good "footballers" leave and we have not lost many over the years especially when they improve as much TM did this year - will probably win a Brownlow at the Hawks - good luck to him except against the Swans
Sorry, I can't wish Tom luck. I wanted the best for Sean & Schneider. Even Membs & Biggs (as they struggled to get a game with us). Even Jolly (family first). But not Tom. He wanted out in his prime - while saying he was happy, to a club I can't stand.