Swans selection policy

[ernie koala]

For mine our selection is ultra conservative and has been that way since 2006. And far more conservative than most other non contenders.
I think most agree, as was the case in 07, 08 and 09, we are no chance of a flag this year, and little chance of making any impact in the finals (if we make them at all).
That's 4 ordinary seasons in a row, and the same conservative approach still being applied.
Yes they 've played a few youngsters this year in Jetta and Rohan. But still young players like O'Dwyer, Vespemi, TDL, and others, who have been performing well in the 2's, get little or no chance at senior level. Where as players like Playfair, Richards, Bevan get extensive runs in the 1's, regardless of their form.
IMO it's time for a more adventurous approach.
Others thoughts?

[Yuri H]

Can't say much other than I agree completely.

[Hartijon]

For mine our selection is ultra conservative and has been that way since 2006. And far more conservative than most other non contenders.
I think most agree, as was the case in 07, 08 and 09, we are no chance of a flag this year, and little chance of making any impact in the finals (if we make them at all).
That's 4 ordinary seasons in a row, and the same conservative approach still being applied.
Yes they 've played a few youngsters this year in Jetta and Rohan. But still young players like O'Dwyer, Vespemi, TDL, and others, who have been performing well in the 2's, get little or no chance at senior level. Where as players like Playfair, Richards, Bevan get extensive runs in the 1's, regardless of their form.
IMO it's time for a more adventurous approach.
Others thoughts?

No extra thoughts other than to say I agree 100% with you. The conservative approach is a mystery to me. The fear of losing seems much greater than the desire to win.As you point out,we are not going to do anything much finals time so WHY ARE WE NOT EXPERIMENTING MORE?
Its frustrating that that goal kicking machine TDL still hasn't played one game yet look at the list who have? How was the way Vespa gets one
game? I copped a lot of criticism on here for suggesting that reasons other than football must be the reason but coaches tend to be sacred cows on this Forum. Why I have no idea,they make as many mistakes as the players!
ame

[ugg]

Playfair 4 games
Richards 4 games
Bevan 5 games

They're hardly extended runs.

We have enough young'uns playing the seniors already - Rohan, Hannebery, Jetta, Bird, Kennedy, Smith, White, Jack are all 23 or under. The ones that are actually letting the team down are the senior seniors (tautology?) We all know the problems Goodes is having, O'Keefe hasn't been the same since getting his head slammed in the Brisbane game, and the debate on Kirk's contribution is on-going.

Do you suggest we drop them?

[RogueSwan]

...

Do you suggest we drop them?

Ummm
Farewell Brett Kirk thread (http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/forum/showthread.php/30931-farewell-brett-kirk-thread)
Farewell Adam Goodes thread (http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/forum/showthread.php/30957-Farewell-Adam-Goodes-Thread)
The pebbles one was a while ago during the games straight after the Blions match.
;)
BTW I don't agree with dropping any of those three. Maybe just a little tinkering with their positions.
As for wholesale changes to bring in the youngsters, do they have the motor to play the 100 odd minutes required by senior footballers? I believe this is one reason the coaches are holding back some of the 2nd's. The TDL omission is to be questioned though. Surely he would have a good fitness base coming from the seniors in the WAFL.
Oh well, we will just have to sit back and see who is bumped and dumped this Thursday.

[Go Swannies]

I think the selection process each week since the premiership has been to give us the best chance to win each game. That's not a bad way to proceed - beats playing to lose.

However, I think the team last week was a big disappointment all round. No changes would suggest the coaches are prepared to accept that level of performance. So I'd expect (and hope for) some changes this week. However do they go for selection as punishment - even if it means we could easily lose to the Tigers?

[ugg]

I really don't think TDL has been hard done by. He suffered an injury in the NAB Cup, only returned in Round 3 and didn't exactly set the world alight. He kicked 7 in Round 8 and was then named on the emergencies before being squeezed out by some returning players. It's only in the last 3 weeks that he has hit consistent form and the papers are saying he's in contention this week for a debut.

Fitness is one reason. Another is that inexperienced players suffer ups and downs as they adjust to what is required to be a successful AFL player. For example, Grundy was in and out of the side since 2006, playing both back and forward before settling into CHB in the 2nd half of last year. McVeigh too, famously suffered a lot of criticism early on before winning the B&F. You have to strike a right balance and that's why guys like Richards, Bevan and Playfair have gotten games - they have experience under their belts.

[Triple B]

I really don't think TDL has been hard done by. He suffered an injury in the NAB Cup, only returned in Round 3 and didn't exactly set the world alight. He kicked 7 in Round 8 and was then named on the emergencies before being squeezed out by some returning players. It's only in the last 3 weeks that he has hit consistent form and the papers are saying he's in contention this week for a debut.


Word

[hammo]

I love the great myth that is being generated about Dennis-Lane (rivalling the hype with Veszpremi!). He got injured in pre season and has only remotely looked like pressing for a senior spot in the last month. He hasn't been hard done by at all and should play this weekend.

Otherwise I agree with the sentiment of the thread.

[aardvark]

Very good chance we will see teddy and henry back this week

[magic.merkin]

McVeigh has to start being able to shake/handle tags, he has deservedly attracted their best, now it's time to start to get his output up.

[Hartijon]

very good chance we will see teddy and henry back this week

lmao :d:d:d

[hammo]

McVeigh has to start being able to shake/handle tags, he has deservedly attracted their best, now it's time to start to get his output up.

Our other midfielders are too busy watching their own opponents to provide blocking for him. He gets very little help. Teams playing the Swans know they only have to shut down McVeigh because no one else is going for the ball.

[ernie koala]

Playfair 4 games
Richards 4 games
Bevan 5 games

They're hardly extended runs.

We have enough young'uns playing the seniors already - Rohan, Hannebery, Jetta, Bird, Kennedy, Smith, White, Jack are all 23 or under. The ones that are actually letting the team down are the senior seniors (tautology?) We all know the problems Goodes is having, O'Keefe hasn't been the same since getting his head slammed in the Brisbane game, and the debate on Kirk's contribution is on-going.

Do you suggest we drop them?

4 or 5 games is an extended run, when compared to 1, just ask O'Dwyer or Vespremi.
As for who I would suggest are dropped.... I'd start with Bevan and Pyke.

[Jewels]

I really don't think TDL has been hard done by. He suffered an injury in the NAB Cup, only returned in Round 3 and didn't exactly set the world alight. He kicked 7 in Round 8 and was then named on the emergencies before being squeezed out by some returning players. It's only in the last 3 weeks that he has hit consistent form and the papers are saying he's in contention this week for a debut.

Fitness is one reason. Another is that inexperienced players suffer ups and downs as they adjust to what is required to be a successful AFL player. For example, Grundy was in and out of the side since 2006, playing both back and forward before settling into CHB in the 2nd half of last year. McVeigh too, famously suffered a lot of criticism early on before winning the B&F. You have to strike a right balance and that's why guys like Richards, Bevan and Playfair have gotten games - they have experience under their belts.

Now, now, now Ugg, this is not the thread for rational thought.
This thread is the thread that ALWAYS follows a loss and always follows the same trajectory.
Dump EVERY player over 25
Replace with EVERY player that has EVER kicked a goal in the ressies (regardless of position)

AND

Sack all the coaches for good measure. :hmmm

[CJK]

Dump EVERY player over 25

Replace with EVERY player that has EVER kicked a goal in the ressies (regardless of position)

AND

Sack all the coaches for good measure. :hmmm

That's the kind of conservative rubbish you get on the forum.

WHEN WILL YOU ALL WAKE UP!!!1!!!!!!11!1!eleven!!!1!

[sWAns63]

For mine our selection is ultra conservative and has been that way since 2006. And far more conservative than most other non contenders.
I think most agree, as was the case in 07, 08 and 09, we are no chance of a flag this year, and little chance of making any impact in the finals (if we make them at all).
That's 4 ordinary seasons in a row, and the same conservative approach still being applied.
Yes they 've played a few youngsters this year in Jetta and Rohan. But still young players like O'Dwyer, Vespemi, TDL, and others, who have been performing well in the 2's, get little or no chance at senior level. Where as players like Playfair, Richards, Bevan get extensive runs in the 1's, regardless of their form.
IMO it's time for a more adventurous approach.
Others thoughts?

Currie, Heath, O'Dwyer, Ves, Johnston, TDL is it 4 games between them

[Nico]

Our other midfielders are too busy watching their own opponents to provide blocking for him. He gets very little help. Teams playing the Swans know they only have to shut down McVeigh because no one else is going for the ball.

Hooray, someone else noticed. Been going on for years.

[RogueSwan]

Hooray, someone else noticed. Been going on for years.

Shepherding seems to be one skill we really lack which is surprising given Roosy supposed knowledge of basketball. Pick 'n' roll anyone?

[Nico]

Shepherding seems to be one skill we really lack which is surprising given Roosy supposed knowledge of basketball. Pick 'n' roll anyone?

One skill we lack is going for the ball at centre bounces and the blokes blocking and holding do it poorly.

[Cheer Squad]

Very good chance we will see teddy and henry back this week

Well, we really must be in trouble!

[ernie koala]

Now, now, now Ugg, this is not the thread for rational thought.
This thread is the thread that ALWAYS follows a loss and always follows the same trajectory.
Dump EVERY player over 25
Replace with EVERY player that has EVER kicked a goal in the ressies (regardless of position)

AND

Sack all the coaches for good measure. :hmmm

Yeah your right, another predictable loss to the Wobbles, in the midst of yet another up and down season of.. beating the also rans and losing to the good sides... gets me questioning the Swans selection strategy.. How dare me!..Maybe I should just sit back, accept the mediocrity, and dwell on my ownership of rational thought.

[Industrial Fan]

Seems a strange year for this type of thread when there have been so many youngsters given a run. There really isnt the older brigade holding unwarranted spots anymore - if you turn over the whole list we'll end up as Richmond!

Need a few senior heads in the team.

[ugg]

Number of players used 2010 (A = AFL debut, C = club debut)

Cb .Pl .A .C
------------
Ad .35 .6 .1
Br .33 .1 .5
Ca .31 .2 .3
Co .32 .- .2
Es .33 .3 .1
Fr .32 .5 .-
Ge .33 .5 .-
Ha .33 .3 .4
Me .35 .5 .1
NM .33 .3 .-
PA .36 .6 .4
Ri .37 .8 .1
St .31 .2 .2
Sy .33 .3 .5
WC .35 .6 .1
WB .29 .2 .1
------------
. .531 60 31

We are very much middle of the pack, and certainly less conservative than in previous years.

[Mike_B]

We are very much middle of the pack, and certainly less conservative than in previous years.

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate, but how much of that is because of retirements etc occurring last year? The corollary being - how many of those new faces were because without them we wouldn't have 22 on the field/bench?

IMHO, at the start of the year we were heading in the right direction with the new faces, but unfortunately when there were a few spots open over the past few weeks, we went with the 'better the devil you know' approach, rather than doing what some other clubs have achieved very successfully in the past, whereby they knew it was a one or two game run, and bring in a kid for that, knowing they will drop back to the 2s afterwards. Rather, we've seen more of the guys with known limitations (eg Bevan/Playfair) over guys who are yet to to be seen. Yes I know it's that fine line between leaving the team with too little experience, but considering the coaching staff openly admit in press conferences that we can't match it with the top teams, what do we have to lose? Let's try and get these kids exposed to a bit of senior footy so they know what it takes when they start a season in the best 22 on paper.

[ugg]

It all depends on what your outlook is. If you believe we should be blooding kids for the future at the expense of winning some games, then I can understand why you would be upset that we're plumping for Bevan/Playfair over O'Dwyer/Johnston (for example). However, if the main goal is to be winning games now, then selecting these guys with experience but limited scope for improvement is the right way to go. Given it it's Roos's last season, and he's always emphasised the need for the Swans to be relatively successful on the field to stay healthy off it, it's not too hard to guess what his point of view is.

I've already made the point that we had 8 players under 23 in the Collingwood match. IMHO, this is about the right balance to have in the team. As we've already seen in the cases of White and Jetta, these young players can have a hard time making consistent and telling contributions on game day.

[RogueSwan]

-----------
Ge .33 .5 .-
St .31 .2 .2
Co .32 .- .2
Fr .32 .5 .-
WB .29 .2 .1
Ca .31 .2 .3
Sy .33 .3 .5
Ha .33 .3 .4
NM .33 .3 .-
Es .33 .3 .1
Br .33 .1 .5
PA .36 .6 .4
Me .35 .5 .1
Ad .35 .6 .1
WC .35 .6 .1
Ri .37 .8 .1
------------

Doesn't show much in ladder order except the obvious - that the bottom teams blood more players.
Geelong and the Dockers are interesting though.5 new players each and still right up the top.

[Mike_B]

It all depends on what your outlook is.

See my signature ;)

[sWAns63]

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate, but how much of that is because of retirements etc occurring last year? The corollary being - how many of those new faces were because without them we wouldn't have 22 on the field/bench?

IMHO, at the start of the year we were heading in the right direction with the new faces, but unfortunately when there were a few spots open over the past few weeks, we went with the 'better the devil you know' approach, rather than doing what some other clubs have achieved very successfully in the past, whereby they knew it was a one or two game run, and bring in a kid for that, knowing they will drop back to the 2s afterwards. Rather, we've seen more of the guys with known limitations (eg Bevan/Playfair) over guys who are yet to to be seen. Yes I know it's that fine line between leaving the team with too little experience, but considering the coaching staff openly admit in press conferences that we can't match it with the top teams, what do we have to lose? Let's try and get these kids exposed to a bit of senior footy so they know what it takes when they start a season in the best 22 on paper.

Well said, exactly how I feel

[giant]

Number of players used 2010 (A = AFL debut, C = club debut)

Cb .Pl .A .C
------------
------------
. .531 60 31

We are very much middle of the pack, and certainly less conservative than in previous years.

Good stats Ugg - can i ask a source?

[ugg]

The stats board on BigFooty. I did see a site with the same figures but I can't locate it now :(

[Hartijon]

Well said, exactly how I feel

Hear Hear! Well summarised.

[Ratna]

Good stats, but club debut can mean anything from Mumford, McGlynn and Kennedy to Seaby and Bradshaw. Don't get me wrong I think they can all make good contributions but when looking to the future, club debut means nothing.
Young'ns need confidence and I think its right not to debut too many too quickly but hopefully some of those mentioned will get their chance soon and hopefully their chance means more than a week. How nervous must you be in a first game if you know there is every chance it may be your last. When they are debuted they need to be assured they will get a few weeks. By the same token those going back to the magoos this week probably need to for confidence but I hope they will all be back soon.

[Nico]

Seems a strange year for this type of thread when there have been so many youngsters given a run. There really isnt the older brigade holding unwarranted spots anymore - if you turn over the whole list we'll end up as Richmond!

Need a few senior heads in the team.

The Tiges are going alright at the moment.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

The Tigers have three wins, if they're going alright then I think we should be aiming a little higher.

[Ratna]

The tiges might finally be getting some confidence they have some decent young players (Due to long period of failure). Hope they don't continue to show improved form at our expense.

[aardvark]

Very good chance we will see teddy and henry back this week

Don't say i didn't warn you......