Trim the fat

[UglyDuckling]

After the disappointing loss to Richmond finals have become extremely difficult once you consider our draw.
Finals or not this year has shown us that our list is not up to scratch and like last year there needs to be some big changes.
Who is in the gun for the trade table or delisting??

Delisting:

Thornton - Looks like he body just wont allow him to get consistent footy, which is what you need to work into form and the senior team

Barlow - Hasnt been sighted this year. As we all know has the physical attributes but hasnt been able to put it together and become a senior player.

Beavan - The writing is on the wall for Beavan, he's 26 and cant crack the senior team. Will trade him if anyone is interested but i doubt they are.

Playfair - Constant injuries, when at his best possibly just cracks the team but constantly injured.

Richards - Put him on the trade table and if no one wants him then so be it. IMO not in our best 22 and if he does play takes a spot from a young player.

Kirk - Love him but his time is come and is retiring at the end of the year.

One of Kennelly, Mattner or Shaw they are all reaching 29 - 30 and past their best. If they retire together it will leave a huge hole so we should stager their exit and bring in some young running defenders. Maybe Vez plays back to get him in the team.

Rookie Promotions

Pyke is the only real candidate, he has done enough this year to get the nod.

Thats 7 out 1 in leaving 6 spots on our list. Its not a complete clean our but what we need to do to get our list up and running again

[Jewels]

I agree with Barlow and Thornton and whilst I'm in the minority here and think Henry is a good back up to have on the list, this latest injury setback would have to sound the death knell on his career.
I hate the "Not in our best 22 so dump him" theory. Every club has to have back up players and the likes of Henry, Ted and Bevan are pretty important.

[aardvark]

Won't happen. Not a lot around to draft or trade with GC picking the eyes out of it. Clubs will hang on to junk they wouldn't normally keep.

[Robbo]

I agree with all of the delistings in the OP. I wouldn't be keen on taking 6 kids in the 2010 draft, it will be a pretty shallow group. We are much better off using some of the list space to promote rookies or draft mature aged players who are established in state league footy.

How is Taylor Gilchrist going?

[liz]

Rookie Promotions

Pyke is the only real candidate, he has done enough this year to get the nod.



Dylan McNeill says "hi".

Has to be a complete certainty to stay on the list in some shape or form next year and strong chance to be promoted given he has consistently been in the best in the reserves. Probably just his size and lack of fitness base holding him up for pushing for a debut this year. (That and the fact we already have half a dozen slowish mids in the team. But long term that shouldn't be held against him because he is a clearance gun.)

[Chilcott]

Fully agree with you Ugly Duck.

I don't think losing Richards, Bevan, Thornton, Barlow, Kirk etc, is going to hurt our depth as we have adequate younger players, such as Currie, O'Dwyer, Vezpremi, Johnston, Meredith, McNeill who could more than cover the losses.

This would free up space to use on young kids and mature age players. Never know, you may get lucky, eg Barlow, Pods.

[Captain]

I would like to see us keep Thornton. Worth persisting with. Such solid hands.

Delist:

Bevan
Playfair
Barlow
Kirk (retire)
Richards

[Bloody Hell]

Is anyone else besides Kirk likely to retire?

[Go Swannies]

Is anyone else besides Kirk likely to retire?

Not official but I've heard that B2 will as he can't be repaired properly.

[Peace]

why would we de-list players who still have arms and legs, when there is going to be bugger all talent in the next few years of drafts.... trading is our only option i reckon.

[caj23]

why would we de-list players who still have arms and legs, when there is going to be bugger all talent in the next few years of drafts.... trading is our only option i reckon.

who or what of any value would we have to offer on the trade table?

[Peace]

all of them for one player... plus earlier draft picks for the 7 or 8 teams behind us.

[wearebloods]

I don't expect too many changes to the list this year unless they are forced or compulsory. The club has already spent the last couple of years overhauling the list in preparation for the compromised drafts & a new coaching administration.

If you check out the player contract status table in the RWO Wiki (http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/wiki/index.php?title=2010#2010_Season), you'll note that there is a more even spread in player age groups & contracts expiring then in previous years, I suppose the idea is to promote stability & gradual changes to the list as opposed to sudden and massive changes which can be disruptive.

I reckon the club will hoard some salary cap and our extra COLA to take advantage of Free Agency in 2012.

If Pyke is retained the club will try to keep him as an international rookie (and outside the salary cap).

I agree with Liz that McNeil is a strong chance to get elevated to spend a draft pick this year or 2011.

Depending on budget, the club may fill up the rookie list with locals.

I've started a list of list management considerations & major news on the RWO Wiki (http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/wiki/index.php?title=2010#List_Management_Consideration s), feel free to contribute to this community resource if you have information to share.

If you're not comfortable editing the wiki itself, please PM me or one of the mods with the info and I?m sure any of us will be happy to do it for you. :)

[UglyDuckling]

I dont really agree that we will hold onto players because its a compromised draft.

If you look at our draft picks this year, depending where we finish, all that really happens is we get pushed down the order a bit. GC has heaps of picks in the first round then only the 1st in the proceeding rounds. So if we finish 8th we will get pick 18, 35, 52 and so on. Its not actually as bad as everyone thinks. The other thing is that clubs have prepared for it and many will only take their minimum amount of picks 2 with upgraded rookie or 3 otherwise. In this scenario our 4th, 5th or 6th pick would then be closer together because other clubs arnt using their picks.

It would end up being a case of TDL (pick 55) V Beavan. Or Sumner (54) V Thornton
some of the later picks might be duds but some may be guns and we already know paul beavan and ted richards are at best serviceable. For the state of the list i think we need to get some more young players in.

[707]

Nice work on RWO Wiki RTTF, very comprehensive.

It's interesting that there is little understanding by many people on this forum of list management, drafting and trading. It really isn't as simple as getting rid of anyone who is not in the best 22 and who has peaked in their career. It really is hugely complex and a combination of both good management and good luck.

IF we hang on and finish 8th then our first pick will be pick 20, then 37, 54, 71. Understand that Gold Coast before the 2009 National Draft took twelve 17 year olds who would have rated highly in this years draft if they were still there. Picks in this years draft for finishing 8th are therefore in reality probably worth something like 26, 46, 66, 83. These are not picks to build a new team around.

As for trading away players for more picks, I doubt anyone we are prepared to trade is worth more than a pick in the 50s so no assistance there.

What we need to hope is that the younger players on our list make rapid progress and fill the void left by retiring players. Rohan and Jetta look like they will be very good withanother year under their belts and although I haven't seen anything of them, reports on Johnston, Reid and McNeill look very promising and if Ves, TDL, Meredith etc can make the next step then all is not lost.

But to delist heavily this year and next year is not going to solve anything. There is a place for numbers 23-30 on the list.

[Triple B]

...... this year has shown us that our list is not up to scratch and like last year there needs to be some big changes.


I don't agree with you at all.

Most of us were of the opinion that we would struggle this year and the bottom reaches of the eight would be a good result. Well guess what, we are close to getting that 'good result'.

But why were we thinking like that?? Because our list is crap??

No, because we have some great young talent, but they are just not ready to seriously mount a challenge at this time.

Nothing has changed except our early good form raised some hope that maybe we would progress quicker than we dared dream. Reality has now struck and as far as I'm concerned, we still have a good list who are going to be a joy to watch in years to come.

[UglyDuckling]

I don't agree with you at all.

Most of us were of the opinion that we would struggle this year and the bottom reaches of the eight would be a good result. Well guess what, we are close to getting that 'good result'.

But why were we thinking like that?? Because our list is crap??

No, because we have some great young talent, but they are just not ready to seriously mount a challenge at this time.

Nothing has changed except our early good form raised some hope that maybe we would progress quicker than we dared dream. Reality has now struck and as far as I'm concerned, we still have a good list who are going to be a joy to watch in years to come.

I totally agree with you, i should have said that there are some really good young guys who are going to develop (fingers crossed) into quality players. I also agree that the bottom part of the 8 is win for us however after last weeks loss that became significantly more difficult.

For a team in our position (middle third of the ladder) we need to look at our list very closely and get as much talent developing together in order to become a good team again.

[Triple B]

I totally agree with you,.....

Now I AM confused...

[Peace]

I should have put a smilie in my post as it reads like i was being serious...

707 thank you for clearing that up, my knowledge is pretty limited but it was something vaguely along what you posted, delisting able bodied players is pointless at the moment.

[ernie koala]

Won't happen. Not a lot around to draft or trade with GC picking the eyes out of it. Clubs will hang on to junk they wouldn't normally keep.

Spot on. This is not the year(or next year) for a clean out. With GC and GWS getting the lions share both in the draft, pre draft of 17 year olds, and exclusive access to strong zones. We should of been cleaning out from 07 onwards, but Roos and co chose not to, until post 09....too little too late.

[Reggi]

Now I AM confused...

Started with Dale Lewis

[Triple B]

Started with Dale Lewis

Can you imagine the online arguments we would have had if the interweb was as prevalent in Dale's day...lol

Bevan, LRT, Davis ... all would pale in comparison to the polarisation that D.Lewis produced amongst fans.

[Reggi]

Can you imagine the online arguments we would have had if the interweb was as prevalent in Dale's day...lol

Bevan, LRT, Davis ... all would pale in comparison to the polarisation that D.Lewis produced amongst fans.

Everyone has their Matthew Nicks

[Lucky Knickers]

I don't agree with you at all.

Most of us were of the opinion that we would struggle this year and the bottom reaches of the eight would be a good result. Well guess what, we are close to getting that 'good result'.

But why were we thinking like that?? Because our list is crap??

No, because we have some great young talent, but they are just not ready to seriously mount a challenge at this time.

Nothing has changed except our early good form raised some hope that maybe we would progress quicker than we dared dream. Reality has now struck and as far as I'm concerned, we still have a good list who are going to be a joy to watch in years to come.
Ditto from me.
I am loving this season. It's been an age since we've seen so many youngsters debut. It's great to see the progress as the squad develops.

[DST]

There is absolutely no way we will be delisting and retiring any more than 3 or 4 players this year, unless we are able to trade for suitable established players like last year.

There is simply not enough talented youngsters out there (outside of the top 80 to 100) to justify offering them a spot on the list and the estimated $0.5 million that it costs each club per draft pick over the two years for development, wages etc.

The ecomonics of it don't stand up.

DST