Captains

[ScottH]

Still not sure about McV as Captain.
Goes missing too much.

19 Disp(74% eff), 1.0 goal and that was from a free. That's 14 effective Disposals.
Between him and Goodes they gave Cyril the matching goal on a silver platter.

Goodes tried hard yesterday, but not much came off. Did a few outstanding things, but hardly had an impact on the game.
21 Disp (57%) 0.2 goals. That's 12 effective Disposals.

Something I've been pointing out over the last few years, and has now been proved bby Champion data in yesterdays paper was how ineffective his disposal were. He was in the bottom 10 for the AFL, this year.

How the AFL reporter(James Dampney) had him as best afield for the swans is beyond me? But then he Had Grundy in the best too. What game was he watching????

AFL.COM

Sydney Swans: Goodes, Richards, McGlynn, Hannebery, Malceski, Grundy

Theage

Sydney: Hannebery, Goodes, Malceski, Kennelly, McGlynn, O'Keefe.

Telegraph

Sydney: Malceski, Hannebery, McGlynn, Kennelly, Richards.

HS

Site is dodgy

At least the DT looks more believable.

It's been mentioend beofre that McMissing is a good talker. But as a Captain I want to see Action.

So he can Talk the Talk, let's see him Walk the Walk!!

[Nich]

I agree Scott. Nothing inspirational out on the field at all. And to me, that's where it counts. Pretty decent in patches but nothing leadership like just yet.

[Margie]

I also agree Scott. The midfield in particular seems to lack leadership.

I admire Ted Richards, as he tries to organise the backline and plays his heart out each week, but very few are leading by example at the moment and cracks are showing in the "bloods" ethos.

[Untamed Snark]

Still making my mind up of Macca, I'm not ready to give up on him all together as yet, but he does need to have a greater presence on field. Maybe if they had made him vice-captain while Kirky was still around it may have been a better transition? The frustrating bit is knowing that he does have the potential to be a good leader; it's just not evident at the moment.
If not Macca who would have been brought up to captaincy? Hanners is a hot favourite but too young, he needs to concentrate on his football without the added responsibility, Kizza? Good skills but again the age could be an issue? Teddy? He's been my favourite for years but it really only been this year that his direction along defence that would suggest a leadership role and even now I?d rather he just focused on keeping the defence together.
Don?t know what the solution is but clearly something needs to be done

[swansrule100]

whats wrong with one captain anyway?

[ScottH]

whats wrong with one captain anyway?

Less people to blame.

[Primmy]

Good, its not just me. This is what I was bleeting on about all game (sorry to the mob in front), the lack of leadership. We have so many kids in now, and so little instinctive reaction as they don't know yet each other's games under pressure. Where was the organisation and leadership? They got lost so often; gosh its been a while since I have been so peed off about one of our games. Guess this is the one we had to have. Or not.

[Cheer Squad]

We're missing Brett Kirk, aren't we? He was such a natural leader.

McVeigh's a decent sort of guy but I don't think he's leadership material. He seems to be too quiet.

I know Paul Kelly didn't say much, but he didn't need to, because his actions always spoke louder than words.

I think they should just leave the captaincy to Goodes. He's got the seniority for it.

[Matt79]

From the time McVeigh was elected captain I have been left slightly bewildered. He is a good player but certainly not a great player. A captain also IMO needs to be consistent, McVeigh certainly has yet to fall into that catergory at any time in his career.

[ernie koala]

I agree with the above. IMO he is a woeful choice, his form is patchy at best. His body language on the field is often poor...Hands out, "why didn't you kick it to me" routine.
Horse has tied his own hands on this one. Captains don't have to be your best players....Kirk, Maxwell and Harley spring to mind as captains that steer (or steered in Kirks and Harleys case), their clubs direction on and off the field.
These guys are leaders. McVeigh shows none of these skills, and on top of that he's an inconsistent player. Which is something no leader can get away with.

[Matt79]

A new nickname for McVeigh which I have heard called out at games (by the way I am not one for bagging our own players at games) is 'McVanish'.

[Panttz]

If we are to hand out the captaincy to players with good consistency we probably would have to swap captains every week...
Or give it to the guys who have only been here a few years :/

So if you are all saying no to Mcveigh, who do you replace him with?
So moving forward, is Jack the next co-captain after Goodes?

Personally I think you are discounting the traits that Jarrad has off the field. Yes on field leadership is very important but having a good work ethic towards training is also important. Goodes inspires the team on field, Jarred pushes them off field.

Lets also not forget he is only 26, he may be captaining this team for another 5 years.

[Nich]

So if you are all saying no to Mcveigh, who do you replace him with? No one.

Lets also not forget he is only 26, he may be captaining this team for another 5 years. Now that's a scary thought.

---

[Cheer Squad]

Lets also not forget he is only 26, he may be captaining this team for another 5 years.

I seriously doubt it.

[Matt79]

I seriously doubt it.

And I seriously hope not! I hope Hanners has stepped up to the mark in the next 5 years too.

[Wardy]

Good, its not just me. This is what I was bleeting on about all game (sorry to the mob in front), the lack of leadership. We have so many kids in now, and so little instinctive reaction as they don't know yet each other's games under pressure. Where was the organisation and leadership? They got lost so often; gosh its been a while since I have been so peed off about one of our games. Guess this is the one we had to have. Or not.

no not just you - I was surprised when I heard he got it in the first place. One captain is fine, either Goods or Jude - I'm still missing Paul Kelly though.

[Cheer Squad]

I hope Hanners has stepped up to the mark in the next 5 years too.

I'd rather see him become our next Brownlow medallist. He's probably too introspective to handle the burden of captaincy. But you never know.

[Xie Shan]

I do like McVeigh as a player, but I have to admit before the season started I did think Jude would have been the logical choice as immediate successor to brett kirk in terms of the ethos that both players shared. Don't get me wrong, McVeigh could still be the a great captain of the club, but Jude and Brett were so close on the field that it might have proved a smoother transition, we have already seen Jude passing on lessons to younger players like Josh Kennedy:


''Over the last 10 years there wouldn't be too many people in the league who have been to more stoppages than Jude Bolton and Brett Kirk. They have the experience that no one can really teach and they are able to draw on those experiences over a long time and help younger players like Josh.''

Bolton's mentoring of Kennedy proves the wisdom of on-the-job succession planning (http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/boltons-mentoring-of-kennedy-proves-the-wisdom-of-onthejob-succession-planning-20110515-1eoch.html)

[Big Al]

Jude Bolton is the only one that covers both the on field and off field stuff the captain must do. He leads by example on field and is articulate off it. Only the inner sanctum knows why they went with the McVeigh and Goodes but from the outside looking in it does not seem like an inspired choice.

[Primmy]

OK, think we need to rethink the macca bash going on here. He is respected by the players, he is a quiet achiever, he is intelligent, he is not flashy, he can play. Cast your minds back to 2003 (I think) first year Stuey was captain. It took that year for him to get around how to handle captaining the side. He was/is very much a behind the scenes man, so it wasn't a natural transition, just a "just" one. Tried to do too much (on the ground that is, off it he was manufacturing the building blocks of rebuilding the ownership of the game by the players).

Point I am making is that macca is still learning the job. He has support from within and he has Goodsey. Look at the mishmash that happened at St Kilda when they had a rotating captaincy. Might have been nice for the captains, but it was an unsettling procedure and ultimately did not do much good. All of the guys need time. Including Macca. I am not a massive fan, but at present I can't think of anyone else I would choose. And no, not even Jude. Not now.

As for Kizza. He is too much of a "lad" to want to be captain imho. Maybe I am wrong, somehow I think not.

The cream will rise in due course. Off the record, I would give the captaincy to Bulldog as an intelligent, diligent, game savvy Swan. But if NicMal's name crops up, I would not be surprised.

[ernie koala]

If we are to hand out the captaincy to players with good consistency we probably would have to swap captains every week...
Or give it to the guys who have only been here a few years :/

So if you are all saying no to Mcveigh, who do you replace him with?
So moving forward, is Jack the next co-captain after Goodes?
Personally I think you are discounting the traits that Jarrad has off the field. Yes on field leadership is very important but having a good work ethic towards training is also important. Goodes inspires the team on field, Jarred pushes them off field.
Lets also not forget he is only 26, he may be captaining this team for another 5 years.

We've got plenty of consistent players. Being consistent doesn't necessarily mean 28 poss's and 3 goals every week. It's having a consistent approach to the way you play. It means never shirking a contest. It means contesting to the last second even when your opponent has beaten you. It means bringing others into a game where they've been struggling. It means inspiring those around you.
I see little of these traits in McVeigh, training hard doesn't separate him from others, nearly all players train hard...they won't get a game if they don't.
As others have said, Jude, an extremely consistent player, would of seemed an obvious choice. Jack is another with great credentials, Hannas' looks a leader to me. Everitt.....only joking.
The point is there are plenty on this team with leadership credentials.

[Big Al]

If you look at our leaders since the early 90's (Kelly, Maxfield, and Kirk) they were all wonderful leaders of men in their own way and had that x factor that made them great captains. I just don't see Macca as a great captain but will be more than happy to eat humble pie if he proves me wrong.

[Big Al]

As for Kizza. He is too much of a "lad" to want to be captain imho. Maybe I am wrong, somehow I think not. .

You may well be right but at the Ressies played at TDL stadium, Kizza sat near the interchange and was pretty vocal with all the boys going on and off. He's a "lad" no question but this was a different side to him than what you usually see. It wouldn't surprise me if Kizza captains this club somewhere down the track.

[ScottH]

OK, think we need to rethink the macca bash going on here. He is respected by the players, he is a quiet achiever, he is intelligent, he is not flashy, he can play. Cast your minds back to 2003 (I think) first year Stuey was captain. It took that year for him to get around how to handle captaining the side. He was/is very much a behind the scenes man, so it wasn't a natural transition, just a "just" one. Tried to do too much (on the ground that is, off it he was manufacturing the building blocks of rebuilding the ownership of the game by the players).

Point I am making is that macca is still learning the job. He has support from within and he has Goodsey. Look at the mishmash that happened at St Kilda when they had a rotating captaincy. Might have been nice for the captains, but it was an unsettling procedure and ultimately did not do much good. All of the guys need time. Including Macca. I am not a massive fan, but at present I can't think of anyone else I would choose. And no, not even Jude. Not now.

As for Kizza. He is too much of a "lad" to want to be captain imho. Maybe I am wrong, somehow I think not.

The cream will rise in due course. Off the record, I would give the captaincy to Bulldog as an intelligent, diligent, game savvy Swan. But if NicMal's name crops up, I would not be surprised.

Difference between Macca and Maxy, Maxy was already a well respected player. Even before we got him.
His flowing locks, booming left boot, ripping down the wing (with locks flowing). He was already a star.

Kelly, well not much more to say, an outright champion, who could do the amazing. His efforts on the field made him well respected.

[ernie koala]

You may well be right but at the Ressies played at TDL stadium, Kizza sat near the interchange and was pretty vocal with all the boys going on and off. He's a "lad" no question but this was a different side to him than what you usually see. It wouldn't surprise me if Kizza captains this club somewhere down the track.

Yeah I agree...Anyway what is it about being a so called "lad" that would interfere with captaincy. Thats just rubbish..Kel was a bit of a lad, I think we all agree he went ok.

[Jewels]

I agree with the above. IMO he is a woeful choice, his form is patchy at best. His body language on the field is often poor...Hands out, "why didn't you kick it to me" routine.
Horse has tied his own hands on this one. Captains don't have to be your best players....Kirk, Maxwell and Harley spring to mind as captains that steer (or steered in Kirks and Harleys case), their clubs direction on and off the field.
These guys are leaders. McVeigh shows none of these skills, and on top of that he's an inconsistent player. Which is something no leader can get away with.
This is one of my biggest beefs with McVeigh as captain, he gave a fearful spray to Mcglynn on sunday for not kicking to him and when the chips are down, so are McVeighs shoulders - his body language is certainly not the stuff of a strong leader.

Jude Bolton is the only one that covers both the on field and off field stuff the captain must do. He leads by example on field and is articulate off it. Only the inner sanctum knows why they went with the McVeigh and Goodes but from the outside looking in it does not seem like an inspired choice.

My thoughts too Al.

[Rob-bloods]

Mc Veighs form was average last year, I simply cannot believe that he is inspirational by word, and seeing him drop off consistently in tackles is hardly inspiring by deed. That was a really strange decision and if they did not know who to choose, then give it to Jude for 12 months who really is inspirational ON the field. Selection on match day, selection of Captains, tactical moves (or often lack of them) gives me some real (albeit early) worries about our coaching box.

[Cheer_Cheer]

Kizza would get my vote.. Though Nipper has the public speaking skills I like in a captain :D

[ScottH]

Kizza would get my vote.. Though Nipper has the public speaking skills I like in a captain :D

you can @@@@@@@ say that again. :eek:

[Big Al]

you can @@@@@@@ say that again. :eek:

For @@@@ sake Scott, watch the language.

[Bleed Red Blood]

Just on Goodes' disposal, anyone recall a moment from the first quarter, where he went in, won the clearance and running towards our goal.. As someone who'd been playing forward most of the year, you'd think he'd have some idea of where a player would be leading too. But it was just kick and hope, into the pocket, throw in. :/

[Bloody Hell]

From the time McVeigh was elected captain I have been left slightly bewildered. He is a good player but certainly not a great player. A captain also IMO needs to be consistent, McVeigh certainly has yet to fall into that catergory at any time in his career.

+1...and

IMO a captain needs to be one of 2 things (or both), besides the obvious of being a leader:

1. A GREAT player

2. Be prepared to die for the team

Players like Mitchell (when captain) or Maxwell aren't greats, but lead by example. For a team like the Swans this attribute must be compulsory....I don't get the feeling McVeigh or Goodes would knowingly split their heads open if required. Thinking back though past captains, there's definately a pattern that these guys don't fit.

[ScottH]

Drop the ball when running into goal at a critical stage of the game. #fail.
Miss the tackle whilst trying to make up for the #fail. #doublefail.

Smacking your fist into your palm, thens hangs head inshame!! #notcaptainmaterial.

[Bloody Hell]

Jack and Nick Smith.

Nice message.

[Panttz]

How many good things did McVeigh do today? How many very bad things did he do?

[Triple B]

McVeigh was far from our worst captain out there today...

[RogueSwan]

How many good things did McVeigh do today? How many very bad things did he do?

1 good - hands on the ball in the goal square to stop a certain goal.
well, let's see... he had 23 disposals and they probably weren't all bad, so about 15 bad things.
I am very reluctant to single out poor footballers, but Macca's game yesterday was very ordinary. He just seemed to fumble every time the ball came near him. He kicked a nice goal though, so make that two good things.

[Bloody Hell]

1 good - hands on the ball in the goal square to stop a certain goal.
well, let's see... he had 23 disposals and they probably weren't all bad, so about 15 bad things.
I am very reluctant to single out poor footballers, but Macca's game yesterday was very ordinary. He just seemed to fumble every time the ball came near him. He kicked a nice goal though, so make that two good things.

Possibly the best small forward in the team, in a team without much of a forward structure.

Would love to see him told, as "Captain" that the F50 is his, and he is responsible for everything that happens therein.

[ernie koala]

Possibly the best small forward in the team, in a team without much of a forward structure.

Would love to see him told, as "Captain" that the F50 is his, and he is responsible for everything that happens therein.

I agree with this, and would go a step further by having him tag the oppositions best running defender.
Tell him to concentrate on this role alone.
Also pick up the body language and stop berating his fellow team mates if the ball isn't delivered to him on a silver platter.

[RogueSwan]

Possibly the best small forward in the team, ....

After Benny, obviously

[AnnieH]

McShudder. I've been cruising around Sydney at a 10km minimum over the speed limit!!

Jude Bolton should have been made captain. Who cares if the political thing was to give it to a New South Welshman - we're not that parochial. If you want someone who leads by example, Jude would have been a much better candidate.

[aardvark]

McShudder. I've been cruising around Sydney at a 10km minimum over the speed limit!!
Jude Bolton should have been made captain. Who cares if the political thing was to give it to a New South Welshman - we're not that parochial. If you want someone who leads by example, Jude would have been a much better candidate.

I agree.

For those who thought Goodsy had bad body language/ attitude on Saturday watch the replay and study the delivery he got from the Mids in the first quarter. It was abominable.

[giant]

Haven't always been a huge McV fan but in a dark few weeks I think he's been excellent lately. Doing a lot of the 1%ers - smothers, second efforts, shephers etc - that I think sets a great example to the youngsters and they are things that we might not always have associated with him. He's also still my #1 choice for the player I want to have the ball as we're going inside 50. If we can get the ball in the hands of he and Mal more often around the centre watch our inside 50 efficiency sky rocket (of course a forward target who could take a grab wouldn't hurt either).

[aardvark]

If we can get the ball in the hands of he and Mal more often around the centre watch our inside 50 efficiency sky rocket (of course a forward target who could take a grab wouldn't hurt either).

Just maybe for once McVeigh could go and get the ball himself....I agree his delivery is good. Oh and Sammy Reid took 9 marks on Saturday. Pretty fair effort for a 19 year old rookie CHF.

[ScottH]

McShudder. I've been cruising around Sydney at a 10km minimum over the speed limit!!

Jude Bolton should have been made captain. Who cares if the political thing was to give it to a New South Welshman - we're not that parochial. If you want someone who leads by example, Jude would have been a much better candidate.

I've been saying that for years. Sadly though I think Jude has missed the boat.
Maxy was a vic, so that throws your political theory out.

[AnnieH]

I've been saying that for years. Sadly though I think Jude has missed the boat.
Maxy was a vic, so that throws your political theory out.

No, putting McShudder in the top job was the political move - Macca's the New South Welshman.

[Matty10]

Whenever McVeigh had the chance to stamp himself on the game with a hard and determined effort on Saturday - and failed - my wife would chirp in and say "that man doesn't have a captain's bone in his body." I thought it was a bit harsh, but based on his on-field performance I struggled to think that she was wrong.

Goodes was probably worse on the weekend though. He can be a match-winner and turn the tide when things go wrong, but there were times on the weekend when he simply gave up on the contest when it was still their to be won.

I am not a huge fan of the dual-captain system (in fact I originally wanted Goodes to be the sole Swans captain), but if you have more than one they must compliment the other. One flashy, brilliant player as captain is fine, provided that the other is the determined, hard-as-nails, never-give-up type of player. We don't have that at the moment. We have two in the first category who regularly go missing, or don't go hard enough when needed.

Captains should never be regularly caught feigning tackles (by limply throwing one arm out), but both of ours do that. Eski is pretty bad at that also, so I definitely hope that he is not the next cab off the rank. Jude is great, but maybe the worry at the start of the year was that he was a fading star, who might fall further (rather than take it up a notch).

[sidswan]

I miss Bolts

[giant]

Just maybe for once McVeigh could go and get the ball himself....I agree his delivery is good. Oh and Sammy Reid took 9 marks on Saturday. Pretty fair effort for a 19 year old rookie CHF.

I'm loving Sammy's work but how many of those marks were inside 50?

The fact is that McV's skills are very important to us - but he's never gonna be another Kirk or Jude.

[ScottH]

I thought McVeigh had a better game, but it seemed both Captains, well one imparticular went missing when things turned in the 3rd qtr.
Goodes had 0 touches in the 3rd term, a time when the captain should be seen to stand tall.
I know we were in front by a huge margin, but to have 0 touches is pretty ordinary.

[AnnieH]

Both Captains played like little champions this week.

Macca ... I'll be sticking to the speed limit this week.

Goodesy deserved the break. We were so far in front, he could afford the rest. Besides, Brisvegas tried to play in the 3rd Scotty ... they all decided to chase Goodesy down.

[ScottH]

Best game for a while from McVeigh.
Still not sure about Captain material.

Goodes bobbed up, but I thought given the rawness of the GC players he might tear it apart.
Fail for me, tonight.