Is Horse impressing anyone?

[ernie koala]

Before I get shouted down, I know it's early days and I know he's not the only one making decisions. But he is the head coach and enough water has gone under the bridge to cast an eye over his impact so far.
What I don't like:
1) The way he has handled Mummy...he came off a limited pre season, after finishing last year with 2 bung knees, and was thrown straight in and required to run out games as the number 1 ruckman. Then when his backup Pyke went down, instead of bringing in the player they recruited as their number 1 ruckmen, Seaby, he brought in an underdone LRT, a deadest defender, and ask him to play backup ruckman/ forward. He's a pinch hitter in the ruck even when fully match fit. Thus leaving Mumford with an even bigger work load. Surprise , surprise, he's got a sore knee, which sounds like the injury from last year flaring up...that's never a good sign long term. Terrible player management.
2) Playing Everitt in defence for 5 or 6 games when his only decent quarter of footy was as a forward.
3) Playing Bevo in defence. We all know what happens when Bevo plays in the backline, so do our opponents.
4) Appointing McVeigh as co captain, a most uninspiring choice, which so far is looking like a stuff up that's going to be hard, if not impossible, to reverse with out having a negative effect on the team.
5) Not letting White settle into one position as a key forward, (or IMO as a key defender) and continuing to play him in the ruck, where he performs like a blind chicken. You could see him loosing confidence with every spell in the ruck.
6) Game day tactics have been much more reactive than proactive.
One example.. Letting Scarlett run free for so long was unbelievable.
7) Sub selections, IMO only one has effectively helped the team in 8 or 9 games. But my biggest beef here is using a 1st gamer. Where the chance of them having a positive impact on the result is negligible. They need a full game to settle into the pace and intensity, and hopefully gain some confidence.
8) I'll add one more I overlooked, our complete lack of forward structure..It's been woeful, playing LRT forward, Mattner forward at times, what a joke while, while Seaby, White, Johnson, TDL all languish in the 2's...pushing at best coming from a headcoach who was a key forward...You don't win games if you don't kick goals.
I've approached this from a negative angle, obviously, and would like to hear some positives..

[Bas]

I've approached this from a negative angle, obviously, and would like to hear some positives..

Um, um, he has blooded some youngsters.

Mummy's sore knee reminds me of what Thomas did with Koschitzke by playing him injured until he broke down.

I'm not good enough to judge what's happening but there ain't much excitement happening me thinks.

It could always be a Swans strategy to blood these guys and then trade them to GWS. Who knows?

[longmile]

I feel your frustration and I agree with most of it.
But I think you are over looking the good things he has done too.
He has inducted a bunch of new players and has changed our style of game, which I enjoy.
But yes he has had some barries as you outline.
I hope he comes to realise it sooner than later.

[dimelb]

I'm happy to see him experiment, provided (a) he knows when it hasn't worked, and (b) he is progressing to a stable set-up, especially the front six and the back six, preferably in that order.

[BSA5]

I haven't been impressed. However, he's got the rest of the year ahead of him, and he's been willing to take risks and play the youngsters, so neither am I writing him off.

[ShockOfHair]

We don't know how Mummy injured his knee and in any case all coaches follow medical advice on how much game time to give players. A bit early to blame Longmire.

We've struggled with the sub, but that's more to do with our list. We're stoppage-intensive but we don't have a Leigh Brown or Paddy Ryder-style tall who can multitask really well, so second ruck is a dilemma. Our forward line is mediocre because our forwards are mediocre.

I'm undecided about LRT as he's only played two games. But Horse wants to keep him doing more of the same.


''I watched him play an under-18 game at Optus Oval [in Melbourne] before he was drafted and he played in the ruck,'' Longmire says.

''He showed his versatility. He's really athletic and he's aggressive and a good size. He hasn't played a lot there but with the sub rule - three on the bench - that player who can play a bit everywhere is very useful.''


If the LRT experiment works Horse will look like a genius. If not this thread could run all season.
The defence rests: LRT's forward thinking is A-OK (http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-defence-rests-lrts-forward-thinking-is-aok-20110526-1f6gp.html)

[Panttz]

Why cant Goodes spend some time rucking?

Is he really that precious?

[Snake]

The horse has a clear bias with the players and it shows at the selection table, how Jetta is getting a game before TDL on current form staggers me!

[Captain]

I haven't been impressed so far.

It all started bad when he cost us the Melbourne game with a stupid sub selection.

[Shotties]

The horse has a clear bias with the players and it shows at the selection table, how Jetta is getting a game before TDL on current form staggers me!

You want to straight swap a winger for a lead up medium forward?

[Cheer Squad]

Is Horse impressing anyone?

Nope.

Malthouse is off contract at the end of the year.

Hire him. We need him.

[Dosser]

Is Horse impressing anyone?

Nope.

Malthouse is off contract at the end of the year.

Hire him. We need him.

Our list + Mick Malthouse = WOW (but they will never do it)

[Big Al]

4 wins. 3 losses to probable top 4 teams. Blooding of 5 youngsters with a view to the future. A side that is clearly in the development stage and apart from the 2nd half against the Hawks has been playing passioned footy.

Yep clearly doing a crap job.

[pig@fullforward]

I think that given our list is in a development stage with our older players pushing us to our victories, i think he's doing a good job getting game time into sam reid etc, I would like to see white dropped into full forward and given some time just to do that role.

[ernie koala]

Why cant Goodes spend some time rucking?

Is he really that precious?

He's by far our best, most influential, player and we need him on the park every week. But I agree there have been times when to throw him in the ruck could of benefited him and the team. The obvious one to me was against Carlton, when Gibbs was tagging, and beating, him. It would of been a way to free Goodsey up, and have some tall timber up forward, which would of created some height issues for Carlton.

[Cheer Squad]

4 wins. 3 losses to probable top 4 teams. Blooding of 5 youngsters with a view to the future. A side that is clearly in the development stage and apart from the 2nd half against the Hawks has been playing passioned footy.

Yep clearly doing a crap job.

"If Malthouse was willing to come to Sydney I'd move heaven and earth to get him."

Your words from the "Longmire: Good or Bad?" thread started 29th April 2011.

You'd keep Longmire then, if Malthouse was available?

[Big Al]

"If Malthouse was willing to come to Sydney I'd move heaven and earth to get him."

Your words from the "Longmire: Good or Bad?" thread started 29th April 2011.

You'd keep Longmire then, if Malthouse was available?

What's the title of this thread???

I was addressing the performance of Horse in 8 games which has nothing to do with what I said previously. Whether Horse is doing a good job or not, if the best coach in the game wants to come, I'd want him here.

[Cheer Squad]

What's the title of this thread???

I was addressing the performance of Horse in 8 games which has nothing to do with what I said previously. Whether Horse is doing a good job or not, if the best coach in the game wants to come, I'd want him here.

Temper, temper!

[Big Al]

Temper, temper!

Firstly you take my quote and use it in the wrong context and then you misread my mood....

0/2 Cheer Squad.

[aardvark]

You'd keep Longmire then, if Malthouse was available?

Yep...we could use a good forwards coach.....oops.....:confused:

[Jewels]

The horse has a clear bias with the players and it shows at the selection table, how Jetta is getting a game before TDL on current form staggers me!

I am no Jetta fan and I agree with wondering how he is still getting a game, but to say he is biased is absolute crap!


4 wins. 3 losses to probable top 4 teams. Blooding of 5 youngsters with a view to the future. A side that is clearly in the development stage and apart from the 2nd half against the Hawks has been playing passioned footy.

Yep clearly doing a crap job.

Thank you Al, some logic in the @@@@e that is this thread!


Temper, temper!

You are unbelievable!!!
You continually malign the team, the club, the coach, in fact anybody with anything to do with the Swans. Have you EVER written or even thought a positive thought about the team?
If you are what makes up the Sydney based cheer squad than no wonder the Melbourne based one is so far superior.

[jono2707]

This thread isn't impressing me....

[Snake]

You want to straight swap a winger for a lead up medium forward?

Your meaning a winger that gets pushed of the ball deadset easy and doesn't believe in hardball gets.......... SO yes.

[Hartijon]

Its really not us that matter. Its whether he is impressing ,in all senses of that word, the players. If the players respect and follow his instructions and play to his plan who cares if he impresses us or not. Personally I am reserving judgement.I see good trends and believe he has been unlucky with injuries which have influenced the sub and the ruck and forward structure. The enigma that is White has also not helped the coach, nor has Bradshaws injury. Change any of these and this thread would not exist. Yeah,I will give him a year to see how he goes! Keep the jab going Big Al!

[Dosser]

Its really not us that matter. Its whether he is impressing ,in all senses of that word, the players. If the players respect and follow his instructions and play to his plan who cares if he impresses us or not. Personally I am reserving judgement.I see good trends and believe he has been unlucky with injuries which have influenced the sub and the ruck and forward structure. The enigma that is White has also not helped the coach, nor has Bradshaws injury. Change any of these and this thread would not exist. Yeah,I will give him a year to see how he goes! Keep the jab going Big Al!

+1

[chammond]

Before I get shouted down, I know it's early days and I know he's not the only one making decisions. But he is the head coach and enough water has gone under the bridge to cast an eye over his impact so far.
What I don't like:
1) The way he has handled Mummy...he came off a limited pre season, after finishing last year with 2 bung knees, and was thrown straight in and required to run out games as the number 1 ruckman. Then when his backup Pyke went down, instead of bringing in the player they recruited as their number 1 ruckmen, Seaby, he brought in an underdone LRT, a deadest defender, and ask him to play backup ruckman/ forward. He's a pinch hitter in the ruck even when fully match fit. Thus leaving Mumford with an even bigger work load. Surprise , surprise, he's got a sore knee, which sounds like the injury from last year flaring up...that's never a good sign long term. Terrible player management.
2) Playing Everitt in defence for 5 or 6 games when his only decent quarter of footy was as a forward.
3) Playing Bevo in defence. We all know what happens when Bevo plays in the backline, so do our opponents.
4) Appointing McVeigh as co captain, a most uninspiring choice, which so far is looking like a stuff up that's going to be hard, if not impossible, to reverse with out having a negative effect on the team.
5) Not letting White settle into one position as a key forward, (or IMO as a key defender) and continuing to play him in the ruck, where he performs like a blind chicken. You could see him loosing confidence with every spell in the ruck.
6) Game day tactics have been much more reactive than proactive.
One example.. Letting Scarlett run free for so long was unbelievable.
7) Sub selections, IMO only one has effectively helped the team in 8 or 9 games. But my biggest beef here is using a 1st gamer. Where the chance of them having a positive impact on the result is negligible. They need a full game to settle into the pace and intensity, and hopefully gain some confidence.
8) I'll add one more I overlooked, our complete lack of forward structure..It's been woeful, playing LRT forward, Mattner forward at times, what a joke while, while Seaby, White, Johnson, TDL all languish in the 2's...pushing at best coming from a headcoach who was a key forward...You don't win games if you don't kick goals.
I've approached this from a negative angle, obviously, and would like to hear some positives..

Most of this is just simplistic whinging . . . being wise after the event. But a couple of points are interesting: the ruck and forward issues are both worrying for different reasons.

Our forward group has been largely dysfunctional since round one. Our best forwards, Goodes, O'Keefe and McGlynn, are only part-timers, and the rest are novices. The only youngster that has shown any real improvement in the forward 50 is Everitt, and he's been dropped.

This forward problem was identified some time ago: Bradshaw and Dennis-Lane were recruited as a short-term fix, and Johnston, Rohan, Lamb, and Reid were drafted as the longer-term solution. Bradshaw and Dennis-Lane haven't yet fired a shot in anger, and the youngsters will obviously take more than 8 games to transform into match-winners. Surely, none of this can be laid solely at Longmire's feet. If we have to lay blame, it probably should go to Roos and his gang for poor planning?

The transformation of our rucking group from the strongest (as a whole) in the league to an unfit rabble is quite remarkable. Obviously the main contributor to this has been the "unknown" factor - the new substitution rule - and the resultant over-reaction regarding the use of ruckmen. Longmire is certainly culpable in that respect.

Overall, I think Longmire has performed okay. He took over a middle-of-the-road group of players, and the team is continuing in that vein. He's made the odd bad decision, but he's blooded some very exciting youngsters, and we're playing a more interesting style of footy this year. He doesn't have Roos' charisma, but I think he has just as much footy-smarts. As a player, Longmire was a top-class forward who occasionally helped out in the ruck, so he ought to have the knowledge to get us through these problems.

[Jewels]

Its really not us that matter. Its whether he is impressing ,in all senses of that word, the players. If the players respect and follow his instructions and play to his plan who cares if he impresses us or not. Personally I am reserving judgement.I see good trends and believe he has been unlucky with injuries which have influenced the sub and the ruck and forward structure. The enigma that is White has also not helped the coach, nor has Bradshaws injury. Change any of these and this thread would not exist. Yeah,I will give him a year to see how he goes! Keep the jab going Big Al!

Well said.

[caj23]

Very underwhelmed with what we have seen so far, I expected a bloke who has been with us for 9 years to hit the ground running and IMO he hasn't. The team has gone backwards this year with a list that on paper is superior to 2010.

The main positive (and change from Roos) I can see is in terms of the blooding of youngsters and our defence has been good considering how dire our midfield has been

The negatives include lack of any clear gameplan, disfunctional forward line (what's new though?), puzzling team selections, clueless on the sub rule, dual captains (just pick one ffs), ruck set up and selections, match day tactics, and our inability to win games by more than 2 goals (again not a new problem).

The whole selection process (i.e. what process?) was deeply flawed and we are seeing the results of it now.

[ernie koala]

Most of this is just simplistic whinging . . . being wise after the event. But a couple of points are interesting: the ruck and forward issues are both worrying for different reasons.

Our forward group has been largely dysfunctional since round one. Our best forwards, Goodes, O'Keefe and McGlynn, are only part-timers, and the rest are novices. The only youngster that has shown any real improvement in the forward 50 is Everitt, and he's been dropped.

This forward problem was identified some time ago: Bradshaw and Dennis-Lane were recruited as a short-term fix, and Johnston, Rohan, Lamb, and Reid were drafted as the longer-term solution. Bradshaw and Dennis-Lane haven't yet fired a shot in anger, and the youngsters will obviously take more than 8 games to transform into match-winners. Surely, none of this can be laid solely at Longmire's feet. If we have to lay blame, it probably should go to Roos and his gang for poor planning?

The transformation of our rucking group from the strongest (as a whole) in the league to an unfit rabble is quite remarkable. Obviously the main contributor to this has been the "unknown" factor - the new substitution rule - and the resultant over-reaction regarding the use of ruckmen. Longmire is certainly culpable in that respect.

Overall, I think Longmire has performed okay. He took over a middle-of-the-road group of players, and the team is continuing in that vein. He's made the odd bad decision, but he's blooded some very exciting youngsters, and we're playing a more interesting style of footy this year. He doesn't have Roos' charisma, but I think he has just as much footy-smarts. As a player, Longmire was a top-class forward who occasionally helped out in the ruck, so he ought to have the knowledge to get us through these problems.

Oh I see, when I make comments they're just.." simplistic whinging ", please tell me where and why and then perhaps we can engage in a discussion...the whole point of the web site...
As for your comment..."being wise after the event", what, as opposed to your comments ?? Of course if I could find my crystal ball I could of discussed Horses coaching from R10 and beyond. Pathetic comment.

[Mr Magoo]

My view is that the 2nd /third and fourth year players have not come on yet as expected which therefore has made us more reliant on newer players like Reid , Johnstone , Johnson. If White, Bird, Hannebery, TDL etc had gone to another level many of our problems would be solved. They havent so we struggle at clearances and in the forward line where those guys play.

[Triple B]

0/2 Cheer Squad.

He's improving...

[ernie koala]

Its really not us that matter. Its whether he is impressing ,in all senses of that word, the players. If the players respect and follow his instructions and play to his plan who cares if he impresses us or not.

I agree with this sort of. But I could also suggest that none of the footy discussions we have on here matter, because clearly, they don't. We're looking in from the outside and can only comment from that perspective...If we choose not to do that because it doesn't matter, then there's not much to talk about really.

[SydAFLFan]

If Roos was still coach would we be feeling the same way? I think following Roos was always going to be a hard task for any coach and perhaps we put Longmire's decisions under the microscope more than we would Roos. I too have concerns, especially on our forward half, but I agree that its way too early to judge Longmire's coaching ability just yet.

But if we don't play finals footy at the end of the season I reserve the right to retract all of the above and argue the complete opposite although I still feel confident we will be in the top eight come September.

Having said that I know we haven't taken a massive backward step as seen north of the border when Voss took over at the Lions and the future does look bright with the next generation of players all pushing for a spot in the first team.

[ugg]

If Roos was still coach would we be feeling the same way? I think following Roos was always going to be a hard task for any coach and perhaps we put Longmire's decisions under the microscope more than we would Roos. I too have concerns, especially on our forward half, but I agree that its way too early to judge Longmire's coaching ability just yet.

If you go searching for posts around Round 15 last year (we also played the Kangas) - we had that mid-season slump after being 6-1 to start the year, we had unexpectedly capitulated to Richmond the previous weekend. The posts there were as uncomplimentary as they are now and Roos copped a fair bit of heat at the time too (too defensive, prefers experience over youth, should leave now not at the end of the season etc.). So while the coach may have changed, posters around here are as unforgiving in their scathing criticism and vitriol directed at the team and staff. The funny thing is, to me at least, is that if we win this weekend those same people will be the first to lavish undying praise and paint what a bright outlook there is for the coming week. There really is no middle ground for them.

[ernie koala]

My view is that the 2nd /third and fourth year players have not come on yet as expected which therefore has made us more reliant on newer players like Reid , Johnstone , Johnson. If White, Bird, Hannebery, TDL etc had gone to another level many of our problems would be solved. They havent so we struggle at clearances and in the forward line where those guys play.

There is an interesting question to come out of your observations. Is Horse suffering from Roos' not blooding and persevering with enough youngsters over the last 3 to 4 years?

[ernie koala]

If you go searching for posts around Round 15 last year (we also played the Kangas) - we had that mid-season slump after being 6-1 to start the year, we had unexpectedly capitulated to Richmond the previous weekend. The posts there were as uncomplimentary as they are now and Roos copped a fair bit of heat at the time too (too defensive, prefers experience over youth, should leave now not at the end of the season etc.). So while the coach may have changed, posters around here are as unforgiving in their scathing criticism and vitriol directed at the team and staff. The funny thing is, to me at least, is that if we win this weekend those same people will be the first to lavish undying praise and paint what a bright outlook there is for the coming week. There really is no middle ground for them.

Ugg, it's easy to be scathing and belittling about "them", ( which I assume in your mind I'm one). The fact is, the point of this thread is to discuss peoples observations on Horse ,as head coach, so far. Personally I haven't seen much that has impressed me.
Which is why I particularly asked for positive feedback. I'm actually interested in others views, whether I agree with them or not.
If it doesn't interest you, don't read it.
A win this week would be great, and if they have a good win, then of course I'll praise them. But it will take more than that to change my overall opinion.

[caj23]

Having said that I know we haven't taken a massive backward step as seen north of the border when Voss took over at the Lions and the future does look bright with the next generation of players all pushing for a spot in the first team.

Voss took them to the finals for the first time in 5 seasons in his first year as coach, the backward step occurred 12 months later when he traded in Fevola

[Big Al]

You are unbelievable!!!
You continually malign the team, the club, the coach, in fact anybody with anything to do with the Swans. Have you EVER written or even thought a positive thought about the team?
If you are what makes up the Sydney based cheer squad than no wonder the Melbourne based one is so far superior.

(clap)

Oh dear Cheer Squad...constantly disagreeing with me is one thing but when you piss off the lovely Jewels you know you may have over stepped a bit.

[caj23]

If you go searching for posts around Round 15 last year (we also played the Kangas) - we had that mid-season slump after being 6-1 to start the year, we had unexpectedly capitulated to Richmond the previous weekend. The posts there were as uncomplimentary as they are now and Roos copped a fair bit of heat at the time too (too defensive, prefers experience over youth, should leave now not at the end of the season etc.). So while the coach may have changed, posters around here are as unforgiving in their scathing criticism and vitriol directed at the team and staff. The funny thing is, to me at least, is that if we win this weekend those same people will be the first to lavish undying praise and paint what a bright outlook there is for the coming week. There really is no middle ground for them.

Roos isn't really the issue here, but the fact is that he'd already announced his decision to quit by then meant that some of his shortcomings were more easily forgiven or ignored. Had he been in charge this season with the same results I don't doubt he would have been in for some criticism.

Unless we win by 100+ points I doubt anybody will be lavishing undying praise as the quality of the opposition is poor and a good team should defeat them comfortably. It will be an interesting week here if lose though!

[Triple B]

If you go searching for posts around Round 15 last year......

...and every year before that at some stage. I'd imagine after the StKilda game in 2005 it would have been a similar story...


If it doesn't interest you, don't read it.

The problem is, you have to read it before you know it's bollocks.

[johnno]

What I dont get is how on earth Jetta is still getting a game??
I dont like to pay out on our players, but in all honesty, he's been next to useless for the last 3-4 weeks now.
What must players like Moore and Bevan be thinking?

[Jewels]

(clap)

Oh dear Cheer Squad...constantly disagreeing with me is one thing but when you piss off the lovely Jewels you know you may have over stepped a bit.

Love ya Al!

[Triple B]

.....What must players like Moore and Bevan be thinking?

They may be thinking 'Gee, and here I was thinking that they'd destroyed all the negatives...'

[Big Al]

What I dont get is how on earth Jetta is still getting a game??
I dont like to pay out on our players, but in all honesty, he's been next to useless for the last 3-4 weeks now.
What must players like Moore and Bevan be thinking?

Sorry Johnno but you lost me when comparing a winger with 2 snails that are best as small forwards only. If you want to name a player that can replace Jetta on the wing then I'm all ears. (Jetta was good against Port but along with a thousand other players was poor against the Hawks)

[aardvark]

What must players like Moore and Bevan be thinking?

Probably "We mustn't forget to send Sheeds a birthday card" or" I wonder what the accommodation is like at Rooty Hill ?"

[ernie koala]

...and every year before that at some stage. I'd imagine after the StKilda game in 2005 it would have been a similar story...



The problem is, you have to read it before you know it's bollocks.

O,k now that we have established you've read this thread and just dismissed it all as" bollocks". The least you can do is give an explanation to justify your ridiculously scathing comment, as it stands it's just shallow rubbish.

[Jewels]

Probably "We mustn't forget to send Sheeds a birthday card" or" I wonder what the accommodation is like at Rooty Hill ?"

Hehehe, now that's funny!

[liz]

This thread kinda reminds me of when teenagers are given two games in the senior team at the start of their career and then written off as "not up to it".

Look at what Geelong fans thought about Thompson during an inept 2006, or Pies fans were saying about Malthouse two to three years ago. And those were two experienced coaches with several years under their belts to get to know their players and meld them into a coherent team.

I am baffled as to why anyone would want to make judgement - good or bad - on a bloke just 9 games into his senior coaching team, who to date has achieved with his squad pretty much the same as they achieved last year under a different coach.

[johnno]

Sorry Johnno but you lost me when comparing a winger with 2 snails that are best as small forwards only. If you want to name a player that can replace Jetta on the wing then I'm all ears. (Jetta was good against Port but along with a thousand other players was poor against the Hawks)

Speedy winger you say? Is that what he does? Could of fooled me!!! He goes missing for MOST of the game. He rarely makes a tackle stick(I know he's a skinny fellow and theres not much to him in terms of kg), but still those tackles get broken a little to easy for my likeing.

Bevan and Moore, although not superstars of the game, have 1 bad game and they get banished to the ressies. Jetta has strung a few in a row now. Disagree about the Port game, he wasnt bad, but he wasnt brilliant either.

Bevan in the forward line is a MUST, nowhere else on the footy field except the forward line.

Moore.....I dont know, he tries, he breaks tackles, is usually a good kick at goals.

Dont know whats happened to TDL, but a forward line of White, TDL and McGlynn is what we need. I just cant see where the goals are going to come from this weekend. Am going on Saturday, have got my seats booked, but to be honest I think I'll be walking home miserable come Saturday afternoon. I've tipped the swans, but instructed friends of mine that if I wasnt a swans supporter, I'd be tipping North.

[Big Al]

Bevan in the forward line is a MUST, nowhere else on the footy field


Sort of the point I was making. You want Jetta dropped which is a valid opinion but you offer up Bevan and Moore who can't play the same role.

[sprite]

Unfortunately the obvious replacements for Jetta are 1 - Just returning from injury (Nick Mel) and 2 - on the injury list (Gary Rohan).

I hope Jetta reviews the Hawks game tape and sees what he could be if applies himself and builds up a bit - our version of Cyril Rioli.

Getting back to the topic - Horse doing ok - come back to this in another 8 or so rounds.

The two points that stick with me are the fact that he didn't make Scarlett accountable and the not playing an alternative ruckman / forward (Seaby).
The plus side he is making changes and bringing in the draft picks possibly earlier than in past years.

[caj23]

This thread kinda reminds me of when teenagers are given two games in the senior team at the start of their career and then written off as "not up to it".

Look at what Geelong fans thought about Thompson during an inept 2006, or Pies fans were saying about Malthouse two to three years ago. And those were two experienced coaches with several years under their belts to get to know their players and meld them into a coherent team.

I am baffled as to why anyone would want to make judgement - good or bad - on a bloke just 9 games into his senior coaching team, who to date has achieved with his squad pretty much the same as they achieved last year under a different coach.

The reason judgements are being made early are threefold, firstly because one of the main justifications behind hiring him without bothering to interview anyone else was because he had been in our system for 9 years and knew our club inside out, thus it was/is expected that he'd hit the ground running. This clearly hasn't been the case.

Secondly, and it ties in with the first point, some of the errors he has made have been glaringly obvious to even a casual observer (see Seaby sub).

Thirdly, on paper our squad is better than last year. The only senior player to depart was Kirk and our younger players have had an extra pre-season and year of development. In spite of this we are well behind last year regardless of what our current win/loss ratio is.

He may well turn the corner and have a brilliant long term plan in place, and for our sake I hope he does,because otherwise we've got a long 2-3 years ahead of us. The question posed is a valid one and the majority of responses seem to concur that his performances over the first 10 weeks have not been impressive.

[Triple B]

O,k now that we have established you've read this thread and just dismissed it all as" bollocks". The least you can do is give an explanation to justify your ridiculously scathing comment, as it stands it's just shallow rubbish.

I'm not just referring to this lot of bollocks, I'm referring to any bollocks thrown up on this board. You told ugg 'If you dont like it, don't read it' How can you know u won't like it if you don't read it first??

You started this thread as a question, your first sentence was 'Before I get shouted down...' yet the first two people who answered your question and didn't agree with you copped a gobfull???

Can only lol at that.

[Plugger1300]

Anyone who says this thread is crap is bonkers. I for one are enjoying the banter, not really bothered by anyone thought's on Horse (think he is struggling a bit but lets give a break - for anyone playing at home) just really loving the sniping going on here. So entertaining would love to know the back story between the sparring partners??

[Big Al]

Anyone who says this thread is crap is bonkers. I for one are enjoying the banter, not really bothered by anyone thought's on Horse (think he is struggling a bit but lets give a break - for anyone playing at home) just really loving the sniping going on here. So entertaining would love to know the back story between the sparring partners??

No back story... Being right all the time can be a curse because it makes people jealous. ;)

[ernie koala]

This thread kinda reminds me of when teenagers are given two games in the senior team at the start of their career and then written off as "not up to it".

Look at what Geelong fans thought about Thompson during an inept 2006, or Pies fans were saying about Malthouse two to three years ago. And those were two experienced coaches with several years under their belts to get to know their players and meld them into a coherent team.

I am baffled as to why anyone would want to make judgement - good or bad - on a bloke just 9 games into his senior coaching team, who to date has achieved with his squad pretty much the same as they achieved last year under a different coach.

Be baffled no more Liz. I think it's perfectly reasonable to pass judgement on what has been served up so SO FAR. This is the point you and others seem to be missing, it's about his performance SO FAR. I'm not passing judgement, and I don't think many others are either, on Horses' longterm future, be that rosy or bleak. This thread is simply a discussion on what we've seen SO FAR. Personally I'm not overly impressed SO FAR, hopefully that will change. It is ridiculous to suggest that no comment should be made on Horse, or others be they players or staff, until several years have passed. At that stage there is little point in commenting because it's all done and dusted. It's commentary for goodness sake, where opinions will change and fluctuate over time. I would of thought that's the point of a forum, otherwise this would be a very dull place.

[dimelb]

But ernie, the point they're making is that SO FAR there's not much to judge by. For me, the only thing he's done that I'm critical of is not immediately replacing the injured Pyke with Seaby in the same role. And we have had a bad run with injuries.

[ernie koala]

But ernie, the point they're making is that SO FAR there's not much to judge by. For me, the only thing he's done that I'm critical of is not immediately replacing the injured Pyke with Seaby in the same role. And we have had a bad run with injuries.

dimelb, you've just made a comment on an aspect of his coaching so far...which IMO is a fair and reasonable comment...I rest my case.

[CJK]

I'm impressed with the alleged size of his johnson.

Is that what we're talking about?

[Untamed Snark]

I'm impressed with the alleged size of his johnson.

Is that what we're talking about?

Alex isn't that tall is he?

[CJK]

Hey Now!

[4 the Bloods]

1) The way he has handled Mummy...he came off a limited pre season, after finishing last year with 2 bung knees, and was thrown straight in and required to run out games as the number 1 ruckman. Then when his backup Pyke went down, instead of bringing in the player they recruited as their number 1 ruckmen, Seaby, he brought in an underdone LRT, a deadest defender, and ask him to play backup ruckman/ forward. He's a pinch hitter in the ruck even when fully match fit. Thus leaving Mumford with an even bigger work load. Surprise , surprise, he's got a sore knee, which sounds like the injury from last year flaring up...that's never a good sign long term. Terrible player management.
Team doctor and physio not accountable but the coach is? Surely they provided direct advice and should be considered the ultimate authority? Also Hawthorn rucked a lot in the last few weeks with Roughead who is by no means a specialist. In fact I'd call that like for like with LRT.


2) Playing Everitt in defence for 5 or 6 games when his only decent quarter of footy was as a forward.
He's played 36 games as a wing/backman with the Dogs previously so its not really that surprising particularly with no LRT and no Tadgh for some. He played forward last week, was rubbish and got dropped.....


4) Appointing McVeigh as co captain, a most uninspiring choice, which so far is looking like a stuff up that's going to be hard, if not impossible, to reverse with out having a negative effect on the team.
I hate this logic. He's picked for a lot more than what happens on the field. We see 100 mins of footy a week and you judge him on that. Surely he's there for what he does around the club all week.


5) Not letting White settle into one position as a key forward, (or IMO as a key defender) and continuing to play him in the ruck, where he performs like a blind chicken. You could see him loosing confidence with every spell in the ruck.
This is the way footy has evolved, particularly in the era of the sub. Other young forward prospects such as Tippet, Hawkins etc all get involved in the ruck on a regular basis. He should be a fairly mobile tall and is actually good around his feet. If he's good enough he should be able to make a go of it, if anything it could have made him execeptionally valuable.


7) Sub selections, IMO only one has effectively helped the team in 8 or 9 games. But my biggest beef here is using a 1st gamer. Where the chance of them having a positive impact on the result is negligible. They need a full game to settle into the pace and intensity, and hopefully gain some confidence.
I really don't get this.... That means we should drop another player just so that a player that is judged as the 22nd best selection can get some confidence? What about what that does to the confidence of the guy dropped down to sub (who more likely than not is a young player with only a few games to their name).


8) I'll add one more I overlooked, our complete lack of forward structure..It's been woeful, playing LRT forward, Mattner forward at times, what a joke while, while Seaby, White, Johnson, TDL all languish in the 2's...pushing at best coming from a headcoach who was a key forward...
First of all, you realise there's a match selection committee right? It's not just the coach. Second, Seaby's a ruckman, weren't you complaining about playing White out of position? His career average is just over half a goal a game and he's never averaged a goal a game for a season and doesn't seem to have bagged many in the reserves. I can't see how he's the answer.

[Big Al]

I'm impressed with the alleged size of his johnson.

Is that what we're talking about?

Big Al says probably...

[The Big Cat]

Here are the facts:

Longmire 200 games
Blakey 359 games
Dew 206 games
Maxfield 285 games
Tudor 68 games
McPherson 111 games
Playfair 68 games

TOTAL: 1136 games of league footy.
TOTAL for this forum (to my knowledge) = 0 games league footy.

How about the snipers of Longmire and the coaching panel put down their poison pens (keyboards!) and realise that they know exactly SFA about how a team should operate and be grateful that we are in the 8 while playing kids after years of constant success!

[liz]

Here are the facts:

Longmire 200 games
Blakey 359 games
Dew 206 games
Maxfield 285 games
Tudor 68 games
McPherson 111 games
Playfair 68 games

TOTAL: 1136 games of league footy.
TOTAL for this forum (to my knowledge) = 0 games league footy.

How about the snipers of Longmire and the coaching panel put down their poison pens (keyboards!) and realise that they know exactly SFA about how a team should operate and be grateful that we are in the 8 while playing kids after years of constant success!

Shocking post Big Cat....







You've forgotten Crouchy!

[ugg]

McPherson no longer there. Irrelevant to the argument I suppose. You could also add Craig Holden to the list.

[ernie koala]

Team doctor and physio not accountable but the coach is? Surely they provided direct advice and should be considered the ultimate authority? Also Hawthorn rucked a lot in the last few weeks with Roughead who is by no means a specialist. In fact I'd call that like for like with LRT.

2) Playing Everitt in defence for 5 or 6 games when his only decent quarter of footy was as a forward.
He's played 36 games as a wing/backman with the Dogs previously so its not really that surprising particularly with no LRT and no Tadgh for some. He played forward last week, was rubbish and got dropped.....

4) Appointing McVeigh as co captain, a most uninspiring choice, which so far is looking like a stuff up that's going to be hard, if not impossible, to reverse with out having a negative effect on the team.
I hate this logic. He's picked for a lot more than what happens on the field. We see 100 mins of footy a week and you judge him on that. Surely he's there for what he does around the club all week.

5) Not letting White settle into one position as a key forward, (or IMO as a key defender) and continuing to play him in the ruck, where he performs like a blind chicken. You could see him loosing confidence with every spell in the ruck.
This is the way footy has evolved, particularly in the era of the sub. Other young forward prospects such as Tippet, Hawkins etc all get involved in the ruck on a regular basis. He should be a fairly mobile tall and is actually good around his feet. If he's good enough he should be able to make a go of it, if anything it could have made him execeptionally valuable.

7) Sub selections, IMO only one has effectively helped the team in 8 or 9 games. But my biggest beef here is using a 1st gamer. Where the chance of them having a positive impact on the result is negligible. They need a full game to settle into the pace and intensity, and hopefully gain some confidence.
I really don't get this.... That means we should drop another player just so that a player that is judged as the 22nd best selection can get some confidence? What about what that does to the confidence of the guy dropped down to sub (who more likely than not is a young player with only a few games to their name).

8) I'll add one more I overlooked, our complete lack of forward structure..It's been woeful, playing LRT forward, Mattner forward at times, what a joke while, while Seaby, White, Johnson, TDL all languish in the 2's...pushing at best coming from a headcoach who was a key forward...
First of all, you realise there's a match selection committee right? It's not just the coach. Second, Seaby's a ruckman, weren't you complaining about playing White out of position? His career average is just over half a goal a game and he's never averaged a goal a game for a season and doesn't seem to have bagged many in the reserves. I can't see how he's the answer.



1) Did you bother to read my opening comment or just conveniently overlooked it? I clearly acknowledged that others are involved in most decision making but Horse is the headcoach, this has not been an injury related decision, just over working a player who had a limited pre seasonbuck stops with him, proofs in the pudding, he is now being rested. What has Roughies form, and ability in the ruck, got to do with swans selections??


2) Yep, played wing/ HBF for the Dogs and went so well there they traded him.

4) And I hate your logic..I never saw what...Carrol, Kelly, Maxfield or Kirk did around the club either...but it was clear watching them game day, and in the press, they were all great leaders, who inspired their teammates.

5) I actually like white, but he has never impressed in the ruck, IMO he's a key position player.

7) Completely disagree, a more established player should be better equipped to slot in when required and pick up the tempo etc of the game, and therefore be far more likely to have a positive impact on the result in a close pressured game.

8) Once again conveniently ignoring my opening comments.
As for Seaby, yes he's a ruckmen first ,pinch hitter up forward second, as 0.5 goals per game shows....LRT is a defender, what's his average goals per game? I'd imagine about 0 .01.

[Hartijon]

Wow! What a thread! Makes me think we need a very big win on Saturday to clear the waters. Sure I never played league but one of my best mates did and I notched up 250 games in the country and coached BUT....what the heck does that matter?? Everybody is entitled to their opinion and many of my mates fellow players were somewhat lacking in grey matter so don't think they necessarliy know more than the fans. Women also can't exactly play league can they yet their opinion is worthwhile too.

[ernie koala]

Here are the facts:

Longmire 200 games
Blakey 359 games
Dew 206 games
Maxfield 285 games
Tudor 68 games
McPherson 111 games
Playfair 68 games

TOTAL: 1136 games of league footy.
TOTAL for this forum (to my knowledge) = 0 games league footy.

How about the snipers of Longmire and the coaching panel put down their poison pens (keyboards!) and realise that they know exactly SFA about how a team should operate and be grateful that we are in the 8 while playing kids after years of constant success!

Snipers..? please. People are commenting , with their opinions on what they see. Maybe we all should just backslap each other, and the team, regardless of what we see and think, and never comment on anything about the footy because we're not on the team, and if we do have the arrogance to have an opinion, we'll keep it to ourselves. What an interesting fun forum this would be.

[Big Al]

As long as we all realise that when making opinions we aren't privy to all the facts that the inner sanctum of the club has.Apart from that post away people. From a person who played 456 games of AFL footy



on the playstation I think Horse has done a reasonable job although if we get beat by North I want his head on a bloody platter and paraded down George St. ;)

[Triple B]

Here are the facts: .....



Here are more facts, me, Big Al and Plugger have 1360 goals, 4 Colemans and a Brownlow between the three of us....

[cowcar]

Here are the facts:

Longmire 200 games
Blakey 359 games
Dew 206 games
Maxfield 285 games
Tudor 68 games
McPherson 111 games
Playfair 68 games

TOTAL: 1136 games of league footy.
TOTAL for this forum (to my knowledge) = 0 games league footy.

How about the snipers of Longmire and the coaching panel put down their poison pens (keyboards!) and realise that they know exactly SFA about how a team should operate and be grateful that we are in the 8 while playing kids after years of constant success!

Buckenara played 154 games, worst coach ever.. playing games doesnt equate to coaching excellence..

with regards to longmire: to early to tell, but he needs to do some fast learning TBH...

[Big Al]

Here are more facts, me, Big Al and Plugger have 1360 goals, 4 Colemans and a Brownlow between the three of us....

:rofl

No wonder I'm so tired.

[Captain]

Here are the facts:

Longmire 200 games
Blakey 359 games
Dew 206 games
Maxfield 285 games
Tudor 68 games
McPherson 111 games
Playfair 68 games

TOTAL: 1136 games of league footy.
TOTAL for this forum (to my knowledge) = 0 games league footy.

How about the snipers of Longmire and the coaching panel put down their poison pens (keyboards!) and realise that they know exactly SFA about how a team should operate and be grateful that we are in the 8 while playing kids after years of constant success!

I hate posts like this.

Just because you are good at playing football, doesn't mean you are good at analysing or coaching football. Also, just because you haven't played football at the highest level, doesn't mean you can't have an opinion.

Most posts critical of Longmire have valid reasons. They are probably areas Longmire himself is working on. Not sure how this is sniping.

[ScottH]

Buckenara played 154 games, worst coach ever.. playing games doesnt equate to coaching excellence..

Timn Watson??

[The Big Cat]

I hate posts like this.

Just because you are good at playing football, doesn't mean you are good at analysing or coaching football. Also, just because you haven't played football at the highest level, doesn't mean you can't have an opinion.

Most posts critical of Longmire have valid reasons. They are probably areas Longmire himself is working on. Not sure how this is sniping.


Give me a group of highly decorated ex-players (whose reputations, every day employment and livelihood revolve around analysing games and strategies) over a bunch of amateurs who have about as much idea about the strategies and intricacies of top level football as they do about the finer points of quantum physics. We, the public have absolutely NO idea of what is happening at club level and your "valid reasons" for criticism are not reasons at all, but the opinions of the uninformed. I call it sniping when the coach is being called into question when he has coached EIGHT games, SIX of them against top eight sides and has a positive winning percentage. And the call to recruit Malthouse is not only ridiculous but bordering on betrayal to the club.

[Cpt. Kirk]

5 Things piss me off about threads like this.

1. Longmire has been taught how to coach from the best (roosy) and to judge him after 8 games is a bit ambiguous imo
2. His sub selections have been average, Sydney lacks a good sub and being the first year of this rule being out ofcourse there is going to be miss appointments of the sub rule our best sub (Gary Rohan) is injured and is out for the next six weeks and even with his skills as a sub i would still prefer him getting a full game. Also in the first game when a lot of people judged him about using seaby as a sub was because he was not 100% on mumfords fitness and he didnt want mummy to go down and only have jesse white rucking.
3. TDL coaches have given him a role to do in the 2s which is to learn how to apply pressure in the forward line and he isnt showing what they want yet, so they want him to work at it.
4. The people that constantly said get seaby in before pyke got injured, Seaby was performing worse in the 2s then what pyke was so pyke was the first choice in the eyes of the coaches. And also getting goodes to ruck ever since Adam did something regarding his leg(i am not sure what it was) the coaches since 2007 have not rucked goodes they obviously think that him rucking could risk reinjuring his leg.
5. This year we have plagued by injuries to some of our best players such as Malcheski, Kennelly, Jack and Rohan. These players other then Rohan i would put in the top 8 of my 22 and not having them there left massive gaps which i thought longmire did to the best of what the list offered.

[bodgie]

I thought threads like this are what these forums are for?

Sure its early days but there are some strange selection and position decisions going on. Players seem to be left stranded out of their depth (old and new) and there seems to be a lot of frustrated arm waving and bitching already.

Great to see a lot of new guys getting a run. Is he developing a medium term top contender or muddling along to keep us in the 8 still?

[Big Al]

Give me a group of highly decorated ex-players (whose reputations, every day employment and livelihood revolve around analysing games and strategies) over a bunch of amateurs who have about as much idea about the strategies and intricacies of top level football as they do about the finer points of quantum physics. We, the public have absolutely NO idea of what is happening at club level and your "valid reasons" for criticism are not reasons at all, but the opinions of the uninformed. I call it sniping when the coach is being called into question when he has coached EIGHT games, SIX of them against top eight sides and has a positive winning percentage. And the call to recruit Malthouse is not only ridiculous but bordering on betrayal to the club.

Here's the problem with this Big Cat. If Horse had guided us to 8-0 and there was nothing but praise on RWO for his coaching wouldn't it also hold true that these positive opinions are also uninformed?

We don't know the inner workings of the club so how do we know that positive opinions are accurate?

I've said all along that on some issues our opinions are indeed being made without the full picture. Doesn't mean those opinions can't be made.

[Cpt. Kirk]

I thought threads like this are what these forums are for?

Great to see a lot of new guys getting a run. Is he developing a medium term top contender or muddling along to keep us in the 8 still?

Your right bodgie.

I think in the past coaches may have been able to get away from not getting a finals position to rebuild a team but there is no point this year as GWS gets a majority of the good picks this year.

[Bloody Hell]

Threads like this are how Mexican stand-offs begin.

Nothing wrong with reviewing the coaches performance so far. He has done some things that make me scratch my head, most of which are noted here. Generally seem to lack a firm gameplan and is just picking players (why 5 KD played last week, I have no idea) continuously. Pick who you think are best and stick with them! The more players play together the better they get, a merry-go-round makes it tough for all.

To be fair he has a hard act to follow (who also copped a fair bit of criticism on this site), premiership coach much loved by the fans, leading me to the only contribution I have to make (which has already been pointed out).

He lacks charisma.

"So what", I hear you think. The role of coach has evolved so that the part that tells the player how to run, mark and kick has diminished, often falling to the assistants. In the commercial world we live in, Coach is a face of the Swans in Sydney and to the rest of the comp. Think back to those heady days of 2005. Roos, Kirk, BBB....alot of charisma - alot of fans came to the club (and before you say Premiership year, I'm talking about the groundswell on the way).

ATM we have Longmire....McVeigh....even Goodes all seem like various shades of Vanilla - as a fan I want some Raspberry Ripple with my footy!

I know this is an inane post, but I think what a difference someone like Malthouse could make to the club.

[Bloody Hell]

Give me a group of highly decorated ex-players (whose reputations, every day employment and livelihood revolve around analysing games and strategies) over a bunch of amateurs who have about as much idea about the strategies and intricacies of top level football as they do about the finer points of quantum physics. We, the public have absolutely NO idea of what is happening at club level and your "valid reasons" for criticism are not reasons at all, but the opinions of the uninformed. I call it sniping when the coach is being called into question when he has coached EIGHT games, SIX of them against top eight sides and has a positive winning percentage. And the call to recruit Malthouse is not only ridiculous but bordering on betrayal to the club.

Footy isn't quantum physics.

There are different types of fans in the world - those who like a tough scrap, those who like end to end football, those who appreciate high flying pack marks, those who appreciate quick hands in close, those who like to analyse the strategy, application and execution of football and those who don't.

If you can't watch 44 guys run around in a big circle (while understanding the rules of the game) for 3 hours and gain no data, or not want to gain data for dissemination there's no point abusing those who do.

Your argument is in the same vain as saying the only people who should comment on finance are the brokers who work in the pits at the stock exchange.

[Bleed Red Blood]

Footy isn't quantum physics.

There are different types of fans in the world - those who like a tough scrap, those who like end to end football, those who appreciate high flying pack marks, those who appreciate quick hands in close, those who like to analyse the strategy, application and execution of football and those who don't.

If you can't watch 44 guys run around in a big circle (while understanding the rules of the game) for 3 hours and gain no data, or not want to gain data for dissemination there's no point abusing those who do.

Your argument is in the same vain as saying the only people who should comment on finance are the brokers who work in the pits at the stock exchange.

this. also, we get it. no more posts saying we dont need afl experience to have a say, and no more saying we do. deal? we're all in the same boat,

[Hartijon]

Give me a group of highly decorated ex-players (whose reputations, every day employment and livelihood revolve around analysing games and strategies) over a bunch of amateurs who have about as much idea about the strategies and intricacies of top level football as they do about the finer points of quantum physics. We, the public have absolutely NO idea of what is happening at club level and your "valid reasons" for criticism are not reasons at all, but the opinions of the uninformed. I call it sniping when the coach is being called into question when he has coached EIGHT games, SIX of them against top eight sides and has a positive winning percentage. And the call to recruit Malthouse is not only ridiculous but bordering on betrayal to the club.

You make it sound like politics where the inner sanctum of experts make the real decisions that we poor fools could not possibly understand so they give us lame press releases that we foolishly discuss.The flaw in your position is that we are discussing a game ,just a game that gets played publically once a week.The ignorant masses of plebians that watch this game uninformed of the planning ,coaching etc that happened first can now see the results of this work before them.What do they see? Some teams working like a machine with high skill levels ,great team work and a functional team structure.Other teams working like a bunch of individuals with poor skills and little team work.Its not rocket science,its there for all to see.Coaches are and I argue should be, judged on results .These results are there for all to see every week. If we play well,have a team structure and display good skills but lose against a good team fans can still take satisfaction from the result.The coach is clearly doing his job in this instance.When the players are not switched on ,skill levels of basics are poor and the team has no forward structure the coach must be accountable whether he has coached 8 or 80. You don't need to know the insider details to know when things are not going well,you can see it on the field. Your opinion based on this weekly observation is perfectly valid.

[Swanner]

5 midfielders and a fullback selected this weekend as our forward line. the signs aren't good.

[Bas]

I wrote up in a previous thread some time ago, the break down of player experience. We have LOTS of players who have only a few seasons experience at best.

I think you're delusional if you think the Swans can compete with the Cat's, Magpies or Hawks at the moment. At the moment.

Next year it could be better. It could be but not guaranteed.

If the Swans lose today, most will go into meltdown for Horse's chaff bag.

Just enjoy seeing some major major talent developing. That includes Everitt.

[royboy42]

You make it sound like politics where the inner sanctum of experts make the real decisions that we poor fools could not possibly understand so they give us lame press releases that we foolishly discuss.The flaw in your position is that we are discussing a game ,just a game that gets played publically once a week.The ignorant masses of plebians that watch this game uninformed of the planning ,coaching etc that happened first can now see the results of this work before them.What do they see? Some teams working like a machine with high skill levels ,great team work and a functional team structure.Other teams working like a bunch of individuals with poor skills and little team work.Its not rocket science,its there for all to see.Coaches are and I argue should be, judged on results .These results are there for all to see every week. If we play well,have a team structure and display good skills but lose against a good team fans can still take satisfaction from the result.The coach is clearly doing his job in this instance.When the players are not switched on ,skill levels of basics are poor and the team has no forward structure the coach must be accountable whether he has coached 8 or 80. You don't need to know the insider details to know when things are not going well,you can see it on the field. Your opinion based on this weekly observation is perfectly valid.

I'm sure there were some nuggets in there Harty, but if you hit enter every now and then to give it a bit of space, it makes it SO much easier to read..

Thanks Mate.

[Hartijon]

I'm sure there were some nuggets in there Harty, but if you hit enter every now and then to give it a bit of space, it makes it SO much easier to read..

Thanks Mate.

Sorry!
:o

[wolftone57]

Before I get shouted down, I know it's early days and I know he's not the only one making decisions. But he is the head coach and enough water has gone under the bridge to cast an eye over his impact so far.
What I don't like:
1) The way he has handled Mummy...he came off a limited pre season, after finishing last year with 2 bung knees, and was thrown straight in and required to run out games as the number 1 ruckman. Then when his backup Pyke went down, instead of bringing in the player they recruited as their number 1 ruckmen, Seaby, he brought in an underdone LRT, a deadest defender, and ask him to play backup ruckman/ forward. He's a pinch hitter in the ruck even when fully match fit. Thus leaving Mumford with an even bigger work load. Surprise , surprise, he's got a sore knee, which sounds like the injury from last year flaring up...that's never a good sign long term. Terrible player management.
2) Playing Everitt in defence for 5 or 6 games when his only decent quarter of footy was as a forward.
3) Playing Bevo in defence. We all know what happens when Bevo plays in the backline, so do our opponents.
4) Appointing McVeigh as co captain, a most uninspiring choice, which so far is looking like a stuff up that's going to be hard, if not impossible, to reverse with out having a negative effect on the team.
5) Not letting White settle into one position as a key forward, (or IMO as a key defender) and continuing to play him in the ruck, where he performs like a blind chicken. You could see him loosing confidence with every spell in the ruck.
6) Game day tactics have been much more reactive than proactive.
One example.. Letting Scarlett run free for so long was unbelievable.
7) Sub selections, IMO only one has effectively helped the team in 8 or 9 games. But my biggest beef here is using a 1st gamer. Where the chance of them having a positive impact on the result is negligible. They need a full game to settle into the pace and intensity, and hopefully gain some confidence.
8) I'll add one more I overlooked, our complete lack of forward structure..It's been woeful, playing LRT forward, Mattner forward at times, what a joke while, while Seaby, White, Johnson, TDL all languish in the 2's...pushing at best coming from a headcoach who was a key forward...You don't win games if you don't kick goals.
I've approached this from a negative angle, obviously, and would like to hear some positives..

I totally agree our forward set up is non existant & we have TDL kicking over 5 a game in the resies. As soon as it gets a bit hot in defense all our players are sent to between half back & full back. When the ball comes out our way what do you know noone there only opposition. The Cats destroyed us in the last quarter because of thi & yes Matty Scarlett was free because his player was in defense. As soon as it gets hot in the kitchen Horse's only reaction is to go defensive, what ever happened to making a few switches quickly to solve the problem. Judd cut us to pieces because Horse left Ryno on him all day, as much as I love Ryno Judd needs a good tagger & I thought that day Shaw was the man for that job.
By the way Ryce is a @@@@ backman, he makes too many mistakes, I like the idea of playing him in the mid & resting forward but I think we have to look at the long term solutions not short. Parker, Murphy, 2 x Jonno, Rohan, Gordon etc are the future & in my opinion our current list still has a lot of players who stuff up at the worst possible time & place. Even McViegh stuffed up & turned over for a goal last week, that would never have happened in the past & this sort of loose play & sloppy skills seem to be Horse's style. Give me Roosies 'boring' footy any day over the crap I have witnessed this year. I admit some of the style is exciting but nothing different to the style Roos was getting them to play last year. The difference is some of the players are more mature this year & should have developed but don't seem to be doing so. Poor skills & judgement are a training issue & I don't think we concentrate on skills enough. The guy I reckon has the most scintilating skills can't get a game and most of the team are performing poorly (TDL). I hope they get rid of Horse before TDL decides to go somewhere he is appreciated

[cowcar]

Timn Watson??

thats a very good point but i was only thinking about Swans in this case...

[wolftone57]

I hate posts like this.

Just because you are good at playing football, doesn't mean you are good at analysing or coaching football. Also, just because you haven't played football at the highest level, doesn't mean you can't have an opinion.

Most posts critical of Longmire have valid reasons. They are probably areas Longmire himself is working on. Not sure how this is sniping.

I don't know about you Captain but I started playing footy as a four year old so don't tell me I don't know anything about the game. The coaching staff have had major problems keeping up with the run of play this season. I was in the stands against the Cats & could see what was happening, every Swan supporter who knows anything about the game could see the centre square set up was wrong & siuted the way the Cats play. Certainly I don't expect us to be the best team in the comp with all our youth but I do expect us to be competitive & we weren't against the Hawks & in the last half against the Cats (if they hadn't kickedc so badly we would have been slaughtered). Coaching errors are just that & need to be addressed, if a player mucks up, say Shaw, everyone is on about it & the coaches get paid to get picked on.

[IrishSwanPerth]

We went from a finals team to a team that looks like they wouldnt kick over 12 goals against an average to good team. Decision making is shocking and to bring in a kid you must play him 3-4 weeks in a row.

Jetta wasnt suited to the wet condidtions in the SCG against Geeelong and Carlton, needed big strong bodies and he was awful. Midfielders look very slow and kicking into the forward line is shocking, forward line changes every week. Im a bit over it all, Mick Malthouse please come to Syd

[ugg]

5 games, 5 debutants, 5 non-losses.

I think Horse is onto something here.

[Doctor]

5 games, 5 debutants, 5 non-losses.

I think Horse is onto something here.

Cool! Who else can we bring in? :D

Seriously, I thought Horse generally made the right moves today.

[liz]

5 games, 5 debutants, 5 non-losses.

I think Horse is onto something here.

So potential for another 7 nOn losses for the season then. Hope he uses them wisely.

[ugg]

Cool! Who else can we bring in? :D

Seriously, I thought Horse generally made the right moves today.
Only senior listed players yet to play a senior game are Dan Currie & Jed Lamb. Maybe pull one of them out for the Collingwood game?

I'm looking forward to hearing some praise for Horse on his choice of sub today. But it'll probably be twisted to say that he should have done that weeks ago.

[Triple B]

I'm looking forward to hearing some praise for Horse on his choice of sub today. But it'll probably be twisted to say that he should have done that weeks ago.

Lol, u may be right ugg.

TBH, I was hoping it was last week, but there is no doubt until Jetstar proves he can produce for a full game, he is a perfect type for a sub. It's a catch 22 though, you need to play to get your fitness to the right level.

[Doctor]

I'm looking forward to hearing some praise for Horse on his choice of sub today. But it'll probably be twisted to say that he should have done that weeks ago.

I reckon Jetta needed freshening up, and has looked that way for a couple of weeks at least, but I can understand why Horse kept playing him - with Rohan out he wants all the pace he can get. North aren't as quick as some teams IMO so Jetta was a good sub option today.

[wolftone57]

Only senior listed players yet to play a senior game are Dan Currie & Jed Lamb. Maybe pull one of them out for the Collingwood game?

I'm looking forward to hearing some praise for Horse on his choice of sub today. But it'll probably be twisted to say that he should have done that weeks ago.

Ok he played the right sub, you didn't need to be Einstein to work that out with Rohan injured. He made faster moves today but I still think he goes far too defensive. This is not the defensive team we used to know, this lot when they grow up are going to be exciting, they already are if they are allowed. I still think leaving the forward line devoid of frowards for great chunks of the game is no way to win. It was better today at least generally we had Lewis & Reidy there but we need a crumber at all times in the Foward line. We were getting killed by Swallow & others in the clearances & need to address that. Bring on Dan & Lamb chop & while we're at it give Byron another shot he was good the last time. Maybe we could give Goodsie, Macca & Teddy a rest against Brissie & play LRT in the backs with Sumner Ryno looks as though heccould do with a rest as well, they will come back refreshed. This would also give us a chance to blood a few young blokes. By the way I love young Currie's aggression, he isn't scared to throw his weight around & can kick a goal & I think it will be Mummy & Currie eventually

[wolftone57]

By the way the other player to come in would be TDL

[ScottH]

OK, I'll weigh in to the debate.
After that debacle. No.

Initially in the year we were playing good attacking footy.
The last 8 quarters have just been a sham. Lame, slow, time consuming. 6 hours of my life I'll never get back. And we are lucky to get 4 points out of those.