Ruck/defence setup, or how to use LRT?

[ShockOfHair]

We should have a full complement of talls in two weeks or so*. Who should be our second ruck, and how do we use Lewis Roberts-Thompson?

Longmire has said he likes LRT as a ruckman/bit part forward, while Ted and Grundy have been brilliant in defence in most games this year.


* gripping a very large plank of wood

[Melbournehammer]

This debate deserves its own thread as it is being had intermittently elsewhere.

Grundy i think is our best defender, best contested mark as a defender and but for 15 minutes against the dogs last year (and I can't really remember - did he play on riewoldt in the richmond game) the player who is able to stand the best opposition forward. i dont think he should be moved forward. His footskills this year have been awful and cost us in games early on - i would be encouraging him to go long to the wing for his first few kicks - he obviously is quite a nervous starter.

ted and LRT are both good defenders, LRT probably better against the taller players (for example I would play LRT on Kreuzer if he is back against the Blues, grunday on Waite and Ted on the next forward) and ted on the more mobile. but LRT is a bigger body and goes better in the ruck. It becomes a least worst option for me. LRT is better in the ruck - that means he should play forward to "rest' rather than play on a forward who runs him around when he is supposed to be resting.

For me much of this problem stems from a decision (much supported by this board) that white was not doing enough on the ball or up front to deserve his place - despite playing in shocking conditions for forwards twice. Since he has been dropped the dysfunctional nature of the forward line has, if anything, become more pronounced. if we are not going to play white then for me it is LRT who can compete best in the ruck and up forward and ted who competes best as a defender.

The next two questions are - is AJ playing better than ted and/or would we get more from a resting ruckman going forward - because for team balance its either LRT or Seaby, white or Pyke (as ff resting ruck), or LRT or AJ or Ted as third tall defender.

I am still in the grundy, ted, LRT/AJ (in that order as defenders) and in the mummy/white forward line ruck combination. And I like Pyke seaby and AJ. I'll reserve my opinion on LJ at this stage because i don't reckon he offers more than everitt (both are pretty good kicks and both can be easily outbodied by kpp)

its an interesting problem though because it really isn't the case that anyone in the 22 is streets ahead of those outside it and form and horses for courses jumps out as the answer to me.

[BSA5]

Where's the "2 rucks and LRT forward" option? I never thought I'd say it, but we are lacking a big body who can take a mark up forward, and with Grundy, Ted and Johnson settled in defence, LRT looks like he could be that body.

Stick LRT in the goalsquare, pump it to him, hope for the best. Better than the set-up we've got right now. Johnston looks a decent potential FF, I like the look of him, but I'd prefer to see LRT there, and if Johnston plays, play him as a forward pocket/HFF.

Obviously right now we don't have the men to play two rucks, so LRT stays as a second ruckman for the time being. But once Pyke/Mummy are back, I'd like to see that setup given a try.

[Hartijon]

[QUOTE=Melbournehammer;530780]- "despite playing in shocking conditions for forwards twice."

Podsiadly and Betts were forwards who didn't seem troubled by the "shocking conditions for forwards". Fair weather players are like fairweather friends. They will always let you down.

[Bloody Hell]

2 rucks with LRT in defense.

If all were fit I'd pick Mumford and Pyke. I'd rest Mumford for as much of the 3rd quarter as possible and let Pyke run himself into the ground, then at 3/4 time sub off Pyke for a running player and let Mumford ruck the last quarter himself, with the occasional hand from LRT/White/whoever when or if required.

[rb4x]

If LRT is going to be used in ruck send him to the 2's so he can learn how to ruck against weaker opposition.

[Panttz]

If LRT is going to be used in ruck send him to the 2's so he can learn how to ruck against weaker opposition.

BOOM

Theres the answer. Get the real ruckman on the park and let the backups learn the trade in the 2's.

[stellation]

- "despite playing in shocking conditions for forwards twice."

Podsiadly and Betts were forwards who didn't seem troubled by the "shocking conditions for forwards". Fair weather players are like fairweather friends. They will always let you down.
The weather's going to impact your tall players being able to have an impact on the game with marking the ball (and getting below their knees in slippery conditions).

Pods played well in the conditions for a key forward and took 4 marks, kicked 1 goal.
Betts is a small forward that took 2 marks, kicked 4 goals.

Sam Reid played full games on both occasions and is a heavy focus as a marking forward for us, on the year he averages 4 marks per game and in those 2 games he could only take 1 mark in each. The weather was crap, it impacts talls.

[ShockOfHair]

Where's the "2 rucks and LRT forward" option? I never thought I'd say it, but we are lacking a big body who can take a mark up forward, and with Grundy, Ted and Johnson settled in defence, LRT looks like he could be that body.

Stick LRT in the goalsquare, pump it to him, hope for the best. Better than the set-up we've got right now. Johnston looks a decent potential FF, I like the look of him, but I'd prefer to see LRT there, and if Johnston plays, play him as a forward pocket/HFF.

Obviously right now we don't have the men to play two rucks, so LRT stays as a second ruckman for the time being. But once Pyke/Mummy are back, I'd like to see that setup given a try.

I realised as I was framing the questions that there are about 30 different combinations of Seaby, Pyke, LRT, etc so I quit while I was ahead. :)

But fair point - it's not a big jump from Longmire' s current thinking of LRT as a ruckman/pinchhitting KPP to him as a big-marking forward.

The defence rests: LRT's forward thinking is A-OK (http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-defence-rests-lrts-forward-thinking-is-aok-20110526-1f6gp.html)

What I also find interesting is that Horse's approach to LRT seems to be the first real differentiator between him and Roos. It's been brought on by the subs rule, so we don't know what Roos would do, but until now Longmire has pretty much followed in Roos' footsteps.

For the Horse neighsayers (ha!) out there I need to add, that's not a dig, just an observation

[BSA5]

Where's the "2 rucks and LRT forward" option? I never thought I'd say it, but we are lacking a big body who can take a mark up forward, and with Grundy, Ted and Johnson settled in defence, LRT looks like he could be that body.

Stick LRT in the goalsquare, pump it to him, hope for the best.

;)

[GongSwan]

I think it's a no argument now, after the Brisbane game

[goswannie14]

Where's the "2 rucks and LRT forward" option? I never thought I'd say it, but we are lacking a big body who can take a mark up forward, and with Grundy, Ted and Johnson settled in defence, LRT looks like he could be that body.

Stick LRT in the goalsquare, pump it to him, hope for the best. Better than the set-up we've got right now. Johnston looks a decent potential FF, I like the look of him, but I'd prefer to see LRT there, and if Johnston plays, play him as a forward pocket/HFF.Looks like Horse read RWO!

[707]

It was a real pisser that Pyke got injured just as he played his best game for us. I think there's potent FF/ruck potential in Pyke and we need to fast track it. He provides a real match up headache for oppositions with his height, strength, speed and aggression.

I also like the LRT FF/ruck set up in the mean time but Pyke is an A grade tap ruckman, LRT isn't.

LRT will be needed down back when we face big opposition forwards like Dawes/Cloke, Kruezer etc. LRT is our biggest and tallest defender and our best spoiler.

Not sure where this leaves Seaby, unless it's at GWS!

[dimelb]

Lewie doesn't see himself permanently up forward. And frankly, I think we'll need him down back when we play teams that go tall in the dry. But it's good to know that he is versatile. This piece fills it out, and you need to disregard the mistake in the heading.
Roberts-Thomson charters new territory - Official AFL Website of the Sydney Swans Football Club (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7106/newsid/115547/default.aspx)

[ernie koala]

LRT did well yesterday, but what FF wouldn't ,given the mountain of possession and lack of pressure.
He actually played Merritt from behind all night and either spoiled or worked him under the ball...just like a defender, and it confused Merritt a little and worked well, particually early in the match.
He's a defender and plays his best footy in defence and I hope he moves back there soon.
And I'd like to see Mummy and Pyke in tandem.
Seaby is our 3rd choice back up...which is excellent insurance.