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Bas
3rd June 2011, 08:47 AM
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/swans-scout-for-big-gun-forward/story-e6frf9jf-1226068259827

Article in today's paper which sounds like journo crap to me.

Even if we had $1 million to spend, there isn't anyone in the market to fill this void. You can forget Fev.

Rather I think the Swans will continue with what we have and Reid will become the CHF and we will either have LJ or Jesse at FF or they will rotate through the position. Benny has been playing FF alot for most of the games that I've been to.

It's an easy story to write on the back of Plugger and Hall though.

I would take Franklin though. Not that he's going anywhere.

Edit: Damn realised at the final second the Gun turned out to be Gin. We'll do with a Scotch, Whisky or Vodka forward as well!!

liz
3rd June 2011, 08:52 AM
Even if there was a gin forward available and wanting to come to Sydney, our first round pick this year is almost certainly not available for trading (Tom Mitchell).

ScottH
3rd June 2011, 08:54 AM
Well the titile got my curiosity going. Thought we'd found someone at Liquor land!!

You're right though the power forward no longer exists.
About the closest their is as a youngster, who may be available one day, is young Jack Reiwoldt.

swansrule100
3rd June 2011, 09:02 AM
either riewoldt would do, nick might like a change, but cant see him ever leaving stkilda, plus hes older i guess.

could try and poach a future star like Hurley or Darling, or walker maybe???

we will probably end up offering hally a four year deal.

Jeffers1984
3rd June 2011, 09:03 AM
In Jesse we trust. Leave him at FF and have Pyke/Seaby relieving Mummy.

Cheer Squad
3rd June 2011, 09:17 AM
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/swans-scout-for-big-gun-forward/story-e6frf9jf-1226068259827

Even if we had $1 million to spend, there isn't anyone in the market to fill this void.



It will be ironic if Israel Folau works out as a power forward for the Giants. He's started kicking goals for them in that position.

CJK
3rd June 2011, 09:56 AM
What's a Gin Forward????

ScottH
3rd June 2011, 10:15 AM
What's a Gin Forward????

Fevola

Untamed Snark
3rd June 2011, 10:18 AM
Fevola

That's a big dim forward

ScottH
3rd June 2011, 10:30 AM
That's a big dim forward

:D

Article:Aug 2010

Riewoldt, 21, and the raging favourite for the Coleman Medal, agreed to a new three-year deal worth between $500,00 and $550,000 a season. It includes incentive clauses.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/richmond-rewards-young-stars-jack-riewoldt-and-dustin-martin/story-e6frf9jf-1225910127217

Be tough to get him anytime soon!!

Ruck'n'Roll
3rd June 2011, 10:40 AM
In Jesse we trust. Leave him at FF and have Pyke/Seaby relieving Mummy.

I wonder how many lone hand ruckmen are going to suffer injuries because of the increased workload? Mummy and Jolly so far.

I wonder how much damage, being used in the ruck as a pinch hitter is having on young talls. Jesse for certain.

Roos once noted that the vast majority of premiership teams fielded two ruckmen. It's amazing how a slight change to the interchange rule (and it is, when you think about it, a slight change) and all of a sudden some (not all) teams feel unable to "waste" a spot on a second ruckman.

So the big question is whether our coaching panel will ever go with two ruckman again?

pig@fullforward
3rd June 2011, 10:52 AM
I'm still backing Jessie, he just needs to get some confidence in his own ability and be left alone at FF

Melbournehammer
3rd June 2011, 11:11 AM
I wonder how many lone hand ruckmen are going to suffer injuries because of the increased workload? Mummy and Jolly so far.

I wonder how much damage, being used in the ruck as a pinch hitter is having on young talls. Jesse for certain.

Roos once noted that the vast majority of premiership teams fielded two ruckmen. It's amazing how a slight change to the interchange rule (and it is, when you think about it, a slight change) and all of a sudden some (not all) teams feel unable to "waste" a spot on a second ruckman.

So the big question is whether our coaching panel will ever go with two ruckman again?

I reckon they will. but the second ruckman has to be multidimensional. self-evidently the weagles are managing to do it, because their second rucks are more than capable of playing on the ball as ruck rovers. Few other teams are not playing someone who can assist the number 1 ruck but whose primary position is somewhere else. we just need to find whether pyke can play somewhere else semi permanently. Seaby can certainly take a mark forwards and is a pretty good set shot kicker so we do have some capacity there.

magic.merkin
3rd June 2011, 11:27 AM
I just have this itch, that they may feel it may be time for a Fevolution.

rb4x
3rd June 2011, 11:40 AM
I might be showing my age but I played in the era when we only had two substitutes. They were called 19th and 20th man. We always played two ruckmen then and the resting ruckman was usually deployed in the forward pocket. Ruck is probably the hardest position to play as you need to cover as much ground as a mid and get to ball ups and throw ins as well as taking the high contested mark. You need to be big to do the tap work and so your body is probably the least athletic on the oval yet you are asked to the most work and the toughest work at that. I know the game has got faster but does not that just make it tougher for the poor ruckman. He needs a rest which he gets by going to the pine which is fair enough as it is easier than the forward pocket. We then give away the ruck advantage by using a makeshift player in the ruck and stuff up his career development as well if it is a young guy like for instance Jesse or damage his confidence if it is LRT who is pretty clueless in the ruck. In my humble opinion we are crazy going with just one genuine ruckman and even more crazy if that one ruckman is Seaby who is not fit enough or fast enough to do the job for more than three quarters. If Seaby gets injured early on we are really going to be up the creek without a paddle. Rant over.

ROK Lobster
3rd June 2011, 11:45 AM
FevolaHe's a "chin" forward, surely.

dimelb
3rd June 2011, 11:48 AM
I might be showing my age but I played in the era when we only had two substitutes. They were called 19th and 20th man. We always played two ruckmen then and the resting ruckman was usually deployed in the forward pocket. Ruck is probably the hardest position to play as you need to cover as much ground as a mid and get to ball ups and throw ins as well as taking the high contested mark. You need to be big to do the tap work and so your body is probably the least athletic on the oval yet you are asked to the most work and the toughest work at that. I know the game has got faster but does not that just make it tougher for the poor ruckman. He needs a rest which he gets by going to the pine which is fair enough as it is easier than the forward pocket. We then give away the ruck advantage by using a makeshift player in the ruck and stuff up his career development as well if it is a young guy like for instance Jesse or damage his confidence if it is LRT who is pretty clueless in the ruck. In my humble opinion we are crazy going with just one genuine ruckman and even more crazy if that one ruckman is Seaby who is not fit enough or fast enough to do the job for more than three quarters. If Seaby gets injured early on we are really going to be up the creek without a paddle. Rant over.
I've never played the game, so I'm glad to see someone who has and who shares my opinion. For the life of me I cannot see the disadvantage in going into a game with two versatile ruckmen, especially when they are as good as Mummy and Pyke. Big Mike especially is worth getting more game time into as he is such a fast learner and applies himself to the task so determinedly. This one step would lay the foundation for a structured forward line. Leave Sammy Reid at CHF, use Johnston or Everitt as the third tall (I prefer Lewis II at present) and watch the crumbs turn to bread off the boots of McGlynn and TDL.

Ruck'n'Roll
3rd June 2011, 11:54 AM
Few other teams are not playing someone who can assist the number 1 ruck but whose primary position is somewhere else.

Multidimensional ruckmen?
Haha, next thing you'll be telling me they can be taught to speak!!!

But in all seriousness the dimension ruckmen have to themselves is height. While grass burners get slower as the game goes on, ruckmen don't shrink.

I would prefer to see us try the radical experiment of playing two real ruckmen a second time (it worked against the dogs) than for us to play "someone who can assist."

Nor do I think ruckmen should be positioned on the forward line on a semi permanent basis, it just doesn't seem to work.
Most ruckmen can make a menace of themselves up forward these days. Like migrating whales they should be regular spectacular visits to the forward line.
They seem to have more effect like that, scoring goals in bursts. Probably the result of the confusion caused in the short term by the replacement of a 6ft forward by a 6ft8in ruckman.

msb
3rd June 2011, 12:37 PM
I just have this itch, that they may feel it may be time for a Fevolution.

So do I, like braddy, we would get him for nothing (draft pick/trade wise) as well.

Cheer_Cheer
3rd June 2011, 01:05 PM
In a word White..Another word - physicality.. He is the great White hope.. He just needs to know his strengths and limitations. I like him best when he presents a big physical presence at the contest.. He should be there splitting packs and bringing the ball to ground if he can't mark it.. Guys like TDL and Gopher will do the rest. Tie the ball into our forward line. Don't let it come out so easily as has been the case this season. I want every defender that plays on him to know that they are going to have to earn it.. Sure he will give away some frees. I would rather see Scarlett picking himself off the turf spitting out grass and running back to take a free kick rather than marking and playing on quickly. We aren't giving away as many frees this season because we have gone soft IMO. Frees are the by-product of being hard at the contest. Not ideal but sometimes a professional free is a good thing. White is a big unit and needs to scare the crap out of defenders. All forwards have their own style. Plugger was great in a pack mark.. Hally on a lead. White needs to find or be shown his style.. Then the team can mould around that style.

Red
3rd June 2011, 01:08 PM
So a potential key forward Mitch Clark is out of contract this year, and his manager is currently negotiating a new one. So of course the Swans are suddenly interested and willing to throw silly money at him :rolleyes:.

I'd be happy if we went after a #2 key forward who wanted to be #1 -- which I suppose Clark is. My pick in this category would be Roughhead from Hawthorn.

ugg
3rd June 2011, 01:19 PM
Mitch Clark is actually quite disappointing as a key forward. His best games have been when he's played in the ruck, such as in 2009 when the Lions lost Leuenberger and Charman for most of the year, or when he's given a licence to roam around the ground like he did last week against the Crows.

WolfGang
3rd June 2011, 01:44 PM
Just draft the 3 best "Big" forwards in the Under 18 draft - hopefully 1 will make it !!

If they are local NSW kid's - all the better - save the ""go Home" pull of Victorian, WA or SA 18 year olds.

jono2707
3rd June 2011, 02:03 PM
Just draft the 3 best "Big" forwards in the Under 18 draft - hopefully 1 will make it !!

If they are local NSW kid's - all the better - save the ""go Home" pull of Victorian, WA or SA 18 year olds.

The draft idea has merit - however I like many others continue to hope that Jesse can make it - as a forward and left well alone from rucking duties.

If we go out and buy a 'gun' player I would rather see us picking up a silky smooth and fast midfielder as I think we're still a bit lacking in that area as well.

I'd also add that I don't think the 'go home' pull has really affected us in recent years so I wouldnt let that influence draft picks. I do, however, love to see NSW born and bred players, and even better still if they're Riverina boys!

ShockOfHair
3rd June 2011, 02:14 PM
What's interesting about this story is just why it appeared. It could be a beatup, or it may have been planted by the Swans to shake the tree a bit. If there's a disgruntled tall forward somewhere, his manager knows who to call.

Risky, but when your best forward is about to hang up the boots and the best prospect is stuck in the seconds, it maybe time for desperate measures.

johnno
3rd June 2011, 02:48 PM
Play all 3(White, Reid and Johnston) there......and LEAVE THEM THERE!!!!!

andyn
3rd June 2011, 02:54 PM
Play all 3(White, Reid and Johnston) there......and LEAVE THEM THERE!!!!!

I agree about White. We're all frustrated, but that's only because we've seen snippets of what he can do. Unless there's some miracle trade to be made, we should hang on to him because our forward line is a real weakness. We can't afford to weaken it more. If we want to aim for youngsters through the draft, they won't be ready for a few years. If we don't mind missing a few years of finals, then that's the best way, but otherwise we need to stay patient with the group we've got.

All that said, If some big key forward wants to come live in the best city in Australia, all offers welcome.

Jeffers1984
3rd June 2011, 03:02 PM
I just have this itch, that they may feel it may be time for a Fevolution.

Would rather go after Tom Hawkins than bringing that cancer to this club.

magic.merkin
3rd June 2011, 03:05 PM
Would rather go after Tom Hawkins than bringing that cancer to this club.

Fair enough, but then we'd have him and Jesse not quite making it yet.

magic.merkin
3rd June 2011, 03:06 PM
I agree about White. We're all frustrated, but that's only because we've seen snippets of what he can do. Unless there's some miracle trade to be made, we should hang on to him because our forward line is a real weakness. We can't afford to weaken it more. If we want to aim for youngsters through the draft, they won't be ready for a few years. If we don't mind missing a few years of finals, then that's the best way, but otherwise we need to stay patient with the group we've got.

All that said, If some big key forward wants to come live in the 2nd best city in Australia, all offers welcome.

I agree

Hartijon
3rd June 2011, 03:43 PM
I agree

Come back Barry! All is forgiven!

Go Swannies
3rd June 2011, 04:35 PM
Come back Barry! All is forgiven!

Strap Baz and Braddy together and we might be able to cobble together an FF?

Bloody Hell
3rd June 2011, 05:01 PM
In a word White..Another word - physicality.. He is the great White hope.

Reminds me of that movie....The Great White Hype.

johnno
3rd June 2011, 05:39 PM
Reminds me of that movie....The Great White Hype.

Good movie...hehe

Legs Akimbo
3rd June 2011, 06:16 PM
Things have changed. A structured forward line is a liability and a structure that operates primarily through a single full forward is more easily nullified than one where there are a range of options. That's why Damien Hardwick said Reiwoldt needs to kick less goals this year if Richmond is to have a better season. The dogs have actually lost scoring effectiveness since BBB joined despite his kicking 80 goals last year. Short memories - doesn't anyone remember the frustrations of everyone kicking to BBB while other options (often White) were left open? With defensive zoning, it is much harder to be a leading FF. Honestly, I reckon even Plugger would struggle now.

Which is not to say our forward line isn't fundamentally @@@@@@. It is. However, I think we have the answers on our list and this article is crap. I have come around to White as a backman. I'd have him as FB (like a point guard, he'd understand that concept). Reg is our half back / sweeper because despite what some on here thing, he is a beautiful kick. Mal fulfills a similar role. Having said that, with Johnson there too, one wonders if we are not one big man surplus... GWS anyone?

TDL is ideally suited as a forward and I understand he has had his issues, but he brings a lot to the table - flair, skill and defensive pressure. So a forward line of TDL McGlynne, with Bird, Parker, Jack etc. rotating into the forward pockets and most importantly, Reid at CHF and Johnston on a flank (he's the right size and shape for a 2nd / 3rd forward and in this day and age, 2nd / 3rd tall forwards are really rather important. Add to the Everitt, Kennedy (a medium sized forward in his own right) and of course Goodes floating forward to create havoc and there is an unpredictable and possibly potent combination there.

But they need to get TDL in there to create forward pressure and they need to get the rotations right with the right blend of size and skill in the forward line. I also wonder about how much of our issue is delivery. Reid needs to work on his kicking to fulfill his role as CHF link man a la Reiwoldt senior and we need to develop MORE structures, set plays and game plans which the players understand and can implement.

All good in theory anyway. I guess what I am feeling is that we have the sausages, but we are missing the BBQ.

dimelb
3rd June 2011, 06:34 PM
Gerard Healy reckons we're one KP forward short of a gun team. In this story on Sam Reid:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/gerard-healy-lauds-young-swan-sam-reid/story-e6frf9jf-1226067585164

Melbourne_Blood
3rd June 2011, 06:42 PM
If we have 1 million spare in the cap at the end of this year, we should allow some or all of that for protecting our players aginst GWS. No use buying Mitch Clark if we've got no money to counter offer them stealing Reid, Rohan, TDL ,etc. etc.

Bas
3rd June 2011, 06:46 PM
Mitch Clark is actually quite disappointing as a key forward. His best games have been when he's played in the ruck, such as in 2009 when the Lions lost Leuenberger and Charman for most of the year, or when he's given a licence to roam around the ground like he did last week against the Crows.

On League Teams last night they were talking about him going home to become a back up at Freo as a ruckman to the Sandi man.

Taylor Walker was the other mentioned in the terror article but I think after the last few weeks he's projecting himself as Fev off field rather than on.

Just a lazy article from a journo who caught the news about Bradshaw and thought that article would pay for a few cartons of beer.

The days of the "gun" full forward are but a memory just like ruckmen without teeth.

Bas
3rd June 2011, 06:48 PM
we should allow some or all of that for protecting our players aginst GWS.

See, the gin epidemic is spreading. Holy Juniper berries Batman !!!!!!!

bennyfabulous
3rd June 2011, 07:02 PM
Maybe we could get Buddy Franklin, i heard Chris Pelchin just resigned from the Hawks. Maybe a deal would be easier to broker now.

707
3rd June 2011, 07:24 PM
I think we have enough talent coming through and just need to be patient. I'm still hoping that White makes the grade, such an impressive package just needs the confidence to be at the forefronr all game not just for snippets, he's the modern type KP forward.

Think the spare salary cap could be better spent elsewhere and we won't have the draft picks to get a gun deal done anyway.

Our drafters are looking like stars given the talent they've snared in the past few drafts with low rated picks.

jono2707
3rd June 2011, 07:28 PM
Maybe we could get Buddy Franklin, i heard Chris Pelchin just resigned from the Hawks. Maybe a deal would be easier to broker now.

Auw yeah he'd go ok....

Dosser
3rd June 2011, 07:34 PM
I used to be of the opinion that we should park a ruckman up in the forward line, but the problem with that is that he will be taken by a tall defender and simply let their two ruckmen run our one ruckman off his feet.
Like everyone else here I see White as the answer, but the problem is we havent really worked out what the question is. Is he back or forward? Our dreams would come true if he realised he had a big body and played accordingly (the man is a bear!) but I have the feeling that he is a full forward with the mindset of a forward flanker.

Cardinal
3rd June 2011, 10:05 PM
It will be ironic if Israel Folau works out as a power forward for the Giants. He's started kicking goals for them in that position.

I know we are in an era of the modern game and the forward press and all that but I wouldn't be surprised if Folau learns that afl can be as simple getting the ball, shaking everyone off and then just kicking straight.

Cheer Squad
3rd June 2011, 11:36 PM
Gerard Healy reckons we're one KP forward short of a gun team. In this story on Sam Reid:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/gerard-healy-lauds-young-swan-sam-reid/story-e6frf9jf-1226067585164

It's an exciting thought, and it's not unreasonable.

We got off to a flying start last year, and were hammered with injuries to KPP all at once - Bradshaw broke down, Seaby broke his ankle and McGlynn was injured.

Then we got blown away by Geelong, and the momentum was lost, but we ultimately recovered really well, won a thrilling final, and were only a kick away from a preliminary final.

If we can permanently solve our forward line problems in the near future, and the team clicks as a unit, I'm sure we could genuinely consider ourselves to be "thereabouts" as they say. Gearing up for a real tilt in a season or two.

Dan
3rd June 2011, 11:50 PM
How about a $1mil bonus to Jesse if he kicks 100 next year ;)

longmile
4th June 2011, 12:45 AM
I'm getting paranoid now about all this talk of GWS stealing our youngsters (and my optimism for the team). I think we have great young players and I'm more positive for the future of the club than I have been for a long time.
More on topic I'd think Jack Riewoldt would be a great option; and hes only 22 years of age. Does anyone know when his contract runs out?

SCGonasunnyday
4th June 2011, 12:46 AM
I'm sadly sobering up but a few hours ago a thought popped in my head - Pyke is the answer. To what question I don't know, just saying.

longmile
4th June 2011, 12:51 AM
I'm sadly sobering up but a few hours ago a thought popped in my head - Pyke is the answer. To what question I don't know, just saying.

You could be onto something ;) .

Steve
4th June 2011, 01:33 AM
Just lazy journalism - a complete non-story.

If there happens to be an out-of-contract gun player willing to move to Sydney next year and chasing big money, I don't see the Swans as their likely destination.

Melbourne_Blood
4th June 2011, 01:13 PM
Just lazy journalism - a complete non-story.

If there happens to be an out-of-contract gun player willing to move to Sydney next year and chasing big money, I don't see the Swans as their likely destination.

exactly.

Big Al
4th June 2011, 01:46 PM
How about a $1mil bonus to Jesse if he kicks 100 next year ;)

Just foot his tattoo bill for a year and then watch him go.

dimelb
4th June 2011, 02:45 PM
Just foot his tattoo bill for a year and then watch him go.
If you can still see him!

Brettb
4th June 2011, 03:48 PM
Would rather go after Tom Hawkins than bringing that cancer to this club.

You might be on the money, Damien Barrett on Triple M just stated that the Swans are monitoring the Tom Hawkins situation very closely and are interested.

Snake
4th June 2011, 03:50 PM
I'm still backing Jessie, he just needs to get some confidence in his own ability and be left alone at FF

I reckon the problem with White isn't just with himself, its the coaching panel. Turning a ruckmen into a FF key position player isn't easy, and who down at Swans Land is helping him ply his trade????? The coaching panel is inexperienced too a bit. We need a true forwards coach to help the youngsters...........

dimelb
4th June 2011, 04:23 PM
You might be on the money, Damien Barrett on Triple M just stated that the Swans are monitoring the Tom Hawkins situation very closely and are interested.
Real risk of recruiting a spud. I wonder what our coaches think they can do that Geelong haven't tried?

GongSwan
4th June 2011, 04:34 PM
Real risk of recruiting a spud. I wonder what our coaches think they can do that Geelong haven't tried?

Huge risk I agree, I suppose at Geelong he's a fringe player and probably feeling the pressure, maybe at a club where he is almost guaranteed a game, like Mummy was, he might do better?????????? Still a huge risk, he does look like a spud

BSA5
4th June 2011, 04:42 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to chasing Hawkins for the right price. Might benefit from having a genuine CHF in the team, which Geelong have never really had (I say this hoping Reid develops as expected).

Untamed Snark
4th June 2011, 04:57 PM
I'm sadly sobering up but a few hours ago a thought popped in my head - Pyke is the answer. To what question I don't know, just saying.

I thought 42 was the answer

dimelb
4th June 2011, 05:07 PM
I thought 42 was the answer
That'll be a shock for some on this board!

Untamed Snark
4th June 2011, 06:04 PM
That'll be a shock for some on this board!

;)

Jeffers1984
4th June 2011, 06:53 PM
I thought 42 was the answer

The answer to life, universe and everything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aboZctrHfK8

wolftone57
4th June 2011, 07:55 PM
either riewoldt would do, nick might like a change, but cant see him ever leaving stkilda, plus hes older i guess.

could try and poach a future star like Hurley or Darling, or walker maybe???

we will probably end up offering hally a four year deal.

s will probably end up a gun once he settles. Started to go in the right direction last night. But seriously I think we will rely on the draft to get us what we want & no more struff ups. At least with a young bloke we could end up with a long term prospect not a quick fix

Lucky Knickers
5th June 2011, 04:18 PM
Unhappy woofing at the doghouse - Lake to tie on the ballet shoes at FF?

ScottH
5th June 2011, 04:31 PM
Unhappy woofing at the doghouse - Lake to tie on the ballet shoes at FF?

Someone's thinking!!

Bas
5th June 2011, 04:34 PM
s will probably end up a gun once he settles. Started to go in the right direction last night. But seriously I think we will rely on the draft to get us what we want & no more struff ups. At least with a young bloke we could end up with a long term prospect not a quick fix

I thought that was why we recruited Lewis.

Bleed Red Blood
5th June 2011, 10:19 PM
Even if there was a gin forward available and wanting to come to Sydney, our first round pick this year is almost certainly not available for trading (Tom Mitchell).

Its the bidding process that means we have to use our first pick on Mitchell, right? But whats to stop us trading our first pick, and hence having to use our second on him?

DLBIA14
5th June 2011, 10:50 PM
Its the bidding process that means we have to use our first pick on Mitchell, right? But whats to stop us trading our first pick, and hence having to use our second on him?

Furthermore, is Tom even rated a 1st round draft pick? Haven't injuries got to him over the last couple of years? I doubt we'd have to use our first pick now tbh. Potential coup there, though then again, his football development might have been stunted by the time off as well.

ugg
5th June 2011, 10:52 PM
Its the bidding process that means we have to use our first pick on Mitchell, right? But whats to stop us trading our first pick, and hence having to use our second on him?
Bidding happens before trade week.

Cpt. Kirk
5th June 2011, 10:55 PM
Furthermore, is Tom even rated a 1st round draft pick? Haven't injuries got to him over the last couple of years? I doubt we'd have to use our first pick now tbh. Potential coup there, though then again, his football development might have been stunted by the time off as well.

I think in the u16's he was the rated very highly and i guess we will see just how good he is when he comes back in round 4 or 5 for WA.