Round 13 - Carlton

[Cheer Squad]

Seems like only yesterday we played Carlton at the SCG. The result was a shock.

Have we improved enough to reverse the result on Sunday? It depends a great deal on how much we can negate Judd's influence, which is unlikely.

Our record on the road this season is very good, and it will be dry inside the stadium, but I still think we'll have our work cut out for us to win, to be honest. Carlton are a team on the up. We're still not settled.

I'm afraid it will be Carlton by about 30 points.

[RBS1]

Carlton are on the up but still very suspect when the heat comes .. Remember last year at the dome we jumped them and turned them over .. They have been up for a while now reckon we might pinch this .. Mumford in could be huge and having jack back to sit on Judd can only help

[BlueRay]

This is a danger game for us (Carlton), but one we should win if we are serious about making a dent in finals this year. The last couple of weeks Judd has put in cameos rather than being dominant across the game and players like Robinson, Ellard and Curnow have been extracting the ball and feeding it to Murphy, Scotland and Gibbs. This is the best Carlton team this millennium and it's a team effort that is getting it done, staunch defending with great run and spread from half back and a multi pronged forward line with defensive pressure across every line.

RBS1, your suspect comment when the heat comes on is no longer the case, in previous years I would have agreed with you, however we have toughed it out in several games this season against you guys, Adelaide and St Kilda where they came at us in the last quarters then we dug in and gutted out a win and anyone who watched our game against Geelong would have to agree that we are a tougher more disciplined side in 2011. The addition of Brown and Richardson to our coaches have really added some steel to the players resolve.

Kruezer and Henderson will be better for the run with both looking good. Hampson is in career best form and his combination with Kruezer should be able to match your ruck combination of Seaby and Mumford, Gibbs no doubt will try and match up on Goodes, although it has only worked once for us, but apparently once is enough:confused: O'Keefe wil lbe looked after by either Duigan or Russell with Jamison and Thornton taking Reid and probably your resting ruck with either Waite, Henderson or Bower being the third tall.

Up forward Walker is on fire, someone who is similar to O'Keefe in your premiership years and Betts has turned the corner with a few good games in a row. Waite and Henderson will no doubt swap across from defense through the game depending on match ups and Kruezer showed on Sunday afternoon just how valuable he'll be up forward taking a couple of big contested grabs and feeding of several more, stats have him down for 6 score involvements.

Carlton has won (or was competitive in)many different types of games this year, a real hard slog against you and St Kilda, Geelong was a game of speed and ball movement. Adelaide and Melbourne flooded back and used a spread and run game. This is a real "eight point" game which will either entrench us in the top 4 or bring us back to the pack.

[swansprincess]

I don't see how we'll be a real danger to any of the teams above us on the ladder if we don't have any genuine forwards or goalkickers. Reid is good but at the moment he's just not good enough and Goodes is out of form also.

[Dosser]

This is a danger game for us (Carlton), but one we should win if we are serious about making a dent in finals this year. The last couple of weeks Judd has put in cameos rather than being dominant across the game and players like Robinson, Ellard and Curnow have been extracting the ball and feeding it to Murphy, Scotland and Gibbs. This is the best Carlton team this millennium and it's a team effort that is getting it done, staunch defending with great run and spread from half back and a multi pronged forward line with defensive pressure across every line.

RBS1, your suspect comment when the heat comes on is no longer the case, in previous years I would have agreed with you, however we have toughed it out in several games this season against you guys, Adelaide and St Kilda where they came at us in the last quarters then we dug in and gutted out a win and anyone who watched our game against Geelong would have to agree that we are a tougher more disciplined side in 2011. The addition of Brown and Richardson to our coaches have really added some steel to the players resolve.

Kruezer and Henderson will be better for the run with both looking good. Hampson is in career best form and his combination with Kruezer should be able to match your ruck combination of Seaby and Mumford, Gibbs no doubt will try and match up on Goodes, although it has only worked once for us, but apparently once is enough:confused: O'Keefe wil lbe looked after by either Duigan or Russell with Jamison and Thornton taking Reid and probably your resting ruck with either Waite, Henderson or Bower being the third tall.

Up forward Walker is on fire, someone who is similar to O'Keefe in your premiership years and Betts has turned the corner with a few good games in a row. Waite and Henderson will no doubt swap across from defense through the game depending on match ups and Kruezer showed on Sunday afternoon just how valuable he'll be up forward taking a couple of big contested grabs and feeding of several more, stats have him down for 6 score involvements.

Carlton has won (or was competitive in)many different types of games this year, a real hard slog against you and St Kilda, Geelong was a game of speed and ball movement. Adelaide and Melbourne flooded back and used a spread and run game. This is a real "eight point" game which will either entrench us in the top 4 or bring us back to the pack.

Good call, although I think we may have the edge in big men (I think Kruezer is more of a forward than a ruckman) but Carlton will smash our forwards with their backline. In addition, Carlton seems to have found some mongrel in the clearances - just watch them throwing themselves in at the ball.
All up, I think Carlton will be too good at home, which I hate because I just know I will be getting texts from my brother-in-law all evening...

[Triple B]

This is the best Carlton team this millennium....

It should be, you spent the first 80% of it tanking for draft picks.

And when you got caught cheating, they took a few draft picks off you. This of course made you even more pathetic, enabling you to pick up some priority picks and landing Judd. Nice work AFL....

[BlueRay]

That's the easy perception but it's wrong. People seem to forget how crap we really were.

Yes we were caught cheating the salary cap, and had a few picks taken from us as well as about $1 million in fines.

We didn't tank to get Walker, Murphy, Russell or Gibbs. Kruezer and Judd there may have been some funny business going on in the last couple of weeks, but we still were bottom 3 six weeks out when Ratten took over from Pagan so it's not as if the team can just flick a switch and be stars overnight.

Our first round picks are Murphy, Walker, Gibbs, Russell, Yarran, Kruezer and Judd a nice collection. But what opposition supporters fail to see is the very good recruiting we've had to do to make up for the draft penalties and years of list mis management in the Elliot era. Last week we had Jamison, Thornton, Touhy, Carrazzo, Ellard, Curnow and Garlett who are all rookie drafted players, add to that Betts who was a PSD draft pick up, so another 8 that were picked up after the main draft of 80+ players. Then take 3 very important players in our current structure all taken after pick 35 in Simpson, Robinson and Duigan and you can see we've balanced our first rounders with some solid picks in late rounds.

We don't have your extra 600K per year to get players from other clubs. No other club had the extra money to offer Mumford the same as what you guys did and Geelong who is in desperate need of him once Ottens hangs up his boots had to be resigned to the fact that he was going. So while you jeer the AFL, just make sure you're not biting the hand that feeds you, cause they help Sydney more that any other club to stay up.

[GoSouth33]

Just a reminder of what happened in Rd 6 from the afl.com match report......


"CARLTON has secured its fourth win of the season and a rare victory in Sydney, overcoming the Swans by 16 points in a tight battle at a soggy SCG on Friday night.

Post-match, a furore erupted over a controversial free kick and 50m penalty for an interchange infringement that led to a goal to Carlton at a critical stage of the third quarter, with the AFL announcing it would investigate the incident.

The Blues trailed by 17 points midway through the third quarter, but three quick goals in succession to Eddie Betts helped them to a one-point lead at the final change.

As expected, the Swans charged hard in the last quarter, but the Blues, thanks to a dominant performance from captain Chris Judd, who had 33 disposals, held off the home team.

Brett Ratten's side kicked four goals to the Swans' two in the last term, winning 12.15 (87) to 10.11 (71)."

This was also the game in which K. Jack sustained his injury and although it's hard to measure it made us less effective. The incorrectly given interchange infringement also shifted the momentum in what was a very tight, close game.

[BlueRay]

I think some people forget how crap we really were Triple B, We didn't tank to get Walker, Gibbs, Murphy, Yarran or Russell. Kruezer I'll give you but even then we were bottom three that year so hardly that great. In fact if you look at the side we trotted out last week there were 7 number round 1 picks Judd included but also 7 rookie listed players Jamison, Garlett, Thornton, Curnow, Carrazzo, Ellard and Touhy. Plus Betts who we picked up in the PSD so while we did benefit from being so rubbish in the early 00's we got some late gems as well.

[Big Al]

I stopped reading when I got to "we didn't tank...".

You're probably a nice fella Blueray but credit us with some intelligence please.

[Peace]

We beat them twice last year and i think we are a much better side now. In the last two games we have been demolishing the contested possessions and inside 50's, granted its against lesser sides but if Kennedy, Jude, Jack etc. keep doing what they are doing at the stoppages, our forwards will see a lot of the ball.

Haven't lost an away game either, that is a huge confidence booster for our boys :)

God, im so optimistic hahaha.

[Big Al]

I don't see how we'll be a real danger to any of the teams above us on the ladder if we don't have any genuine forwards or goalkickers. Reid is good but at the moment he's just not good enough and Goodes is out of form also.

Created 30 scoring opportunities in the wet against a committed opponent and kicked 13 goals in a half the previous week so I think the forward set up is coming together.

Will it improve sufficiently to challenge for a top 4 spot this year... Probably not but the Swans are a club you bet against at your peril.

[Melbourne_Blood]

If we play our best footy for the year, we will go very close to winning. We've been pretty average this year, despite our wins and havent really had everything gel in one game. eg. Disposal against Essendon, WC, Geelong, was terrible. Our forward set up against Hawthorn and the doggies ( probably other games too ) was non exicstent and our midfield against the Kangas was piss weak. ( i dont need to mention our goal kicking on the weekend) Despite all this, the postives are that we have 7 wins on the board and have had chances to win against good sides in Geelong and Carlton. We still have half a season to go and this week will be a great great opportunity to prove we're a serious side, IF, we can put everything together over four quarters.

[Peace]

Created 30 scoring opportunities in the wet against a committed opponent and kicked 13 goals in a half the previous week so I think the forward set up is coming together.

Will it improve sufficiently to challenge for a top 4 spot this year... Probably not but the Swans are a club you bet against at your peril.

There is no chance of the wind affecting our kicking at goal this week either...

[707]

I think Carlton are a much improved side over the last month and don't have any real deficiencies that I can see. They have a number of previously spare parts players who have really stepped up so this will be a serious test for us.

We can win but would want to do everything right from containing their midfield stars, keeping a tight check on the small forwards and kicking straight! Nothing like scoreboard pressure to hurt the opposition.

As for Blueray's assertion there was no tanking by Carton, give me a break. I will admit however that Melbourne's tanking was even more blatant two years ago, so much so that Vlad (he who said tanking didn't exist) promptly changed the Priority Pick rules to stop it, even though it wasn't happening ..... Vlad? are you there Vlad? I'm glad Melbourne are experiencing some bad games recently, well deserved, the same for Carton's 6-7 years in the wilderness, nice work John Elliott.

[Go Swannies]

50:50 so far. I wonder how many picking the Blues don't live in Melbourne (where the Blues tyres have been so pumped them must resemble blimps)?

But noone has gone for the Blues by more than 40 - though one has for the Swans. Brave call, but if we bring our kicking boots . . .

[Bloody Hell]

But noone has gone for the Blues by more than 40 - though one has for the Swans. Brave call, but if we bring our kicking boots . . .

I wouldn't read too much into it. I always pick the Swans 40+....gotta believe.

[goswannie14]

I stopped reading when I got to "we didn't tank...".

You're probably a nice fella Blueray but credit us with some intelligence please.What he said!

[BlueRay]

C'Mon guys, read the whole bit. What I was trying to say was Gibbs and Murphy we got for being absolute rubbish, when your as crap as we were you can't tank, because by definition your trying to lose when you should win and we were just so bad we couldn't win.

The year we got Kruezer most Carlton supporters will concede some funny business going on in the last six weeks, but you still have to remember we were second last when we got rid of Pagan, so it's not like we were tearing the league apart when Ratten was appointed caretaker coach and there was some funny on field moves done in our games v Collingwood and Melbourne that made sure of a loss.

Big Al said credit you guys with some intelligence which is what I'm doing by explaining this. What you've done by saying we tanked to get this side is a bit ignorant of the facts and something that I'd expect to hear from a Collingwood supporter and as I said I'll concede one year, but have a look at Melbourne and Collingwood who had a few injuries one year and put the que in the rack by round 12 sending players off for surgery who still could of played (Tarrant and a few others who's names escape me now) and then they get Thomas and Pendulbury, but no one ever says they tanked, yet we were rancid for a few years and get labelled as a tanker.

As for me being a nice fella Big Al, most on my site would say I'm an argumentative @@@@@, but I must say this last week is the first week I've read RWO and am very impressed by what I see. If any of you guys want to see what's being written about this game from a Carlton point of view go to Carlton Supporters Club and have a read. I'm an Admin over there so even if you want to post provided you stay within the rules (much the same as here) then you'll be very welcome. (hope this is OK mods)

[ScottH]

And we know how all admins suck!!

[Big Al]

And we know how all admins suck!!

You'll have to ban yourself now...

[Mr Magoo]

Blue ray makes too good of an argument for me to dispute. Its funny but I find it hard to really dislike Cartlon. As a Sydneysider looking in , it seems that the only reason for resentment of them in Melbourne stems from the fact that they have traditionally been a rich successful club. They copped a lot of years in the wilderness for what Elliott did so you cant say they werent punished albeit they did receive some handy draft picks as a result but I dont think many at the start of the season would have seen them as a top four aspirant with what seemed like a gun midfield but a forward line that looked less functional than ours and a backline that was handy but nothing to write home about .

[hot potato]

The Blues look too quick for some of our slow thinkers, but if we play on like we did against Brisbane... Buckets might take a dozen marks and kick 10 goals...

YEAH !!

[Go Swannies]

The Blues look too quick for some of our slow thinkers, but if we play on like we did against Brisbane... Buckets might take a dozen marks and kick 10 goals...

YEAH !!

So we'll have to rely on Jude's reaction times then. There was a passage of play last weekend when the ball looked like it was spilling clear and about 10 players were moving with it. Jude was most of a second quicker than anyone else to realise it'd gone back into the pack and turned around to extract it again. His reaction time was remarkably quicker than anyone else from either team. Go Jude - and no wonder he tackles blokes before they realise they have the ball.

[T-bag]

It only takes one game to label a team tankers. "Kruezer Cup" anyone?

[ShockOfHair]

We don't have your extra 600K per year to get players from other clubs. No other club had the extra money to offer Mumford the same as what you guys did and Geelong who is in desperate need of him once Ottens hangs up his boots had to be resigned to the fact that he was going. So while you jeer the AFL, just make sure you're not biting the hand that feeds you, cause they help Sydney more that any other club to stay up.

Mumford was nothing to do with the salary cap. The Swans had just lost Barry, O'Loughlin, Hall, Jolly, to name a few - all on big contracts. We were in the middle a rebuild and had plenty to spend, while the Cats didn't because they were at the top of the cycle.

In fact, IIRC, the deal for Mummo was $1m over four years -- hardly a big salary by AFL standards.

You also seem to be fond of the canard about the salary cap concessions as you've mentioned it a couple of time. It's a favourite of a lot of non-Sydney supporters who don't understand the business of footy. The management of league clubs, who do understand the game, support it because they know that concessions to the Swans help ensure a share of broadcast revenue from the country's biggest TV market. These revenues help fund their football departments.

The official reason for the concession is entirely valid: Sydney is the most expensive city in, hence a 4%-5% higher salary ceiling.

If you're really upset about unfair salary rules you should direct your ire at the Crows. Adelaide is the cheapest city to live in and the AFL should impose a lower salary cap on them. (On Port, too, though that would seem particularly unfair right now.)

[ugg]

Best preview I've seen all year. Best thing of afll is it's written by a Carlton premiership winner :D

Pressure Footy (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/rococo-blues-v-soggy-swans-20110616-1g5ge.html)


When Carlton flourishes its supporters begin teeming from everywhere ? rich snobs, academics, artists, white and blue collars and a colourful Italian-influenced contingent.

It all starts blending into a lavishly decorated Rococo swirl. Arrogance prevails, but when you scratch the Rococo Blues, is it too ornate, old-fashioned and frivolous? There is no better outfit to test pretension than the Sydney Swans. A dinkum scrap is good enough for them.

[Triple B]

I see Mark McVeigh still plays for us...

[Peace]

Best preview I've seen all year. Best thing of afll is it's written by a Carlton premiership winner :D

Pressure Footy (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/rococo-blues-v-soggy-swans-20110616-1g5ge.html)

Ha just read that myself, you beat me to posting it. Excellent article.

[Nich]

Benny Mac to kick 5.

[GongSwan]

Probably not but the Swans are a club you bet against at your peril.

Damn straight