no Braddy no Bolts = no Cloke no Maxwell

[Auntie.Gerald]

I really do believe there has been 4 to 5 games that the Pies have won this year due to massive games by Maxwell and especially Cloke.......

If the Pies didnt have those two playing all season like we havent had Braddy or Craig Bolton how would the pies faired ?

I can think of 4 games minimum we would have won with Braddy and Craig involved.......hell I can think of 5 !

[longmile]

You raise a good point.
I think a solid full forward like Cloke or Bradshaw is what is stopping us from getting into the top 4 or being an A-Grade side.
A strong full forward would organise and improve our entire forward line.

[msb]

Oh if only that were the case, a fit braddy and bolton...I too think we'd be in the 4. You take key players out of any team and it makes a huge difference, which has been the case with us unfortuneately.

[Melbournehammer]

But so what. Hawthorn would better with roughhead, Fremantle with sandilands, Essendon with Dempsey, Melbourne with a fit Scully and so on.

[dimelb]

But so what. Hawthorn would better with roughhead, Fremantle with sandilands, Essendon with Dempsey, Melbourne with a fit Scully and so on.
True, but none of them would have the impact of a fit Bradshaw, never mind B2.

[Bloody Hell]

The impact Bradshaw had on this club is overrated. Comparing Bolton to Maxwell is an injustice.

[sharp9]

Injustice to whom? Two All Australians, better suited to being 3rd tall who nevertheless were/are their respective team's most important defender.

[Triple B]

I really do believe there has been 4 to 5 games that the Pies have won this year due to massive games by Maxwell and especially Cloke.......

Not sure Maxwell has been responsible for any wins this year, let alone 4 or 5.

There are plenty of Collingwood supporters calling for his head due to poor form.

No doubt he is a good captain and a great leader of men, even those who want him dropped aren't arguing that point, but his form is pretty ordinary atm and has been most of the year.

[Chilcott]

Big call about Bradshaw/Bolton - Cloke/Maxwell.

Cloke and Maxwell are at the top of their games, whereas, Bradshaw and Bolton (if fit), would be at their end of their careers.

[Damien]

Not sure Maxwell has been responsible for any wins this year, let alone 4 or 5.

There are plenty of Collingwood supporters calling for his head due to poor form.

No doubt he is a good captain and a great leader of men, even those who want him dropped aren't arguing that point, but his form is pretty ordinary atm and has been most of the year.

Yeah I don't rate Maxwell as a player, to me he is average but works hard. Plays well as a loose player and does the one percenters (which average players need to do to play AFL!)

[Auntie.Gerald]

id take maxwell in a heart beart...........

[wolftone57]

True, but none of them would have the impact of a fit Bradshaw, never mind B2.

What a load of cobwash Dimelb, the Roughhead/ Buddy combo was one of the things that won the Hawks a premiership not that long ago. Buddy kicked 100 & Roughy about 60. Sandilands is huge for Freo not to mention a few other stars they are missing like Moribito. Losing key players always unbalances a side and to other sides the outs of star players are just as important as Bolts & Braddy were for us. The difference is we know we are never getting them back but the other sides are waiting anxiously for them to come back. In the case of Roughy next year.

[dimelb]

What a load of cobwash [codswallop? cobblers? hogwash?!) Dimelb, the Roughhead/ Buddy combo was one of the things that won the Hawks a premiership not that long ago. Buddy kicked 100 & Roughy about 60. Sandilands is huge for Freo not to mention a few other stars they are missing like Moribito. Losing key players always unbalances a side and to other sides the outs of star players are just as important as Bolts & Braddy were for us. The difference is we know we are never getting them back but the other sides are waiting anxiously for them to come back. In the case of Roughy next year.
Thanks for the entertaining neologism wt57! :)
I worry when Buddy gets the ball, but not so much with Roughead, who is not nearly as consistent with accuracy; I think his real value to Hawthorn at present is his work as part-time ruckman who can go forward. And yes, Sandilands is a huge out for Freo and his loss has severely dented their chances.
Nevertheless, I subscribe to the idea that we are a couple of KPP's away from being contenders (assuming our mids are in form), and we now have one of them with Sam Reid. If Bradshaw had been fit and playing I have no doubt we would've won 4 or 5 more matches, which would put us currently up with Carlton. I know many will think I am overrating him, but when he was fit and firing he was a premium full forward with the capacity to win matches, and if he were still playing there would be no complaints about our forward structure.
Just the way I see it, no claims to infallibility.

[Triple B]

If Bradshaw had been fit and playing I have no doubt we would've won 4 or 5 more matches, which would put us currently up with Carlton. I know many will think I am overrating him, but when he was fit and firing he was a premium full forward with the capacity to win matches, and if he were still playing there would be no complaints about our forward structure.
Just the way I see it, no claims to infallibility.

Bradshaw circa early 2000's for sure, not so sure about the 2011 version.

You may be overrating his influence, but he would certainly have had some influence and wouldn't it have been lovely to find out... :frown

[BSA5]

Bradshaw circa early 2000's for sure, not so sure about the 2011 version.

You may be overrating his influence, but he would certainly have had some influence and wouldn't it have been lovely to find out... :frown

The 2010 version was good enough for that. No reason to suppose the 2011 version wouldn't have either. His form last year was fantastic, it was just his knee that let him down.

That said, it's a stupid argument. The club would have expected them to not be available, or at the very least prepared for it. We coped most of last year without them. In the end, a fit Bolton and Bradshaw would have been bonuses, nothing more.

[Bloody Hell]

Yeah I don't rate Maxwell as a player, to me he is average but works hard. Plays well as a loose player and does the one percenters (which average players need to do to play AFL!)
+1

He's a solid defender surrounded by exceptional defenders ... and he plays for Collingwood.

[wolftone57]

Thanks for the entertaining neologism wt57! :)
I worry when Buddy gets the ball, but not so much with Roughead, who is not nearly as consistent with accuracy; I think his real value to Hawthorn at present is his work as part-time ruckman who can go forward. And yes, Sandilands is a huge out for Freo and his loss has severely dented their chances.
Nevertheless, I subscribe to the idea that we are a couple of KPP's away from being contenders (assuming our mids are in form), and we now have one of them with Sam Reid. If Bradshaw had been fit and playing I have no doubt we would've won 4 or 5 more matches, which would put us currently up with Carlton. I know many will think I am overrating him, but when he was fit and firing he was a premium full forward with the capacity to win matches, and if he were still playing there would be no complaints about our forward structure.
Just the way I see it, no claims to infallibility.

So you just ignore that Roughhead kicked 60 goals for the Hawks & the Hawks did not want him to play second ruck for your information, strait from the club itself, they didn't have any ruckmen at one stage & he even had to play first ruck. The fact is Bolts2 & Braddy aren't in our team any more due to retirement & we have to make the best of it. I think top players being injured have had a huge impact on several teams this year not just us. Ours just matters more to us, opposition supporters wouldn't agree with your opinion of the situation I am sure. Freemantle, Hawthorn & Essendon all have had a bad season injury wise & have lost key players. We count our key players as more important than theirs and to us they are but not to them. Thank the footy gods we didn't have 15 players out of our best line up at one stage of the year like the Hawks & Dockers and had to play rookies.

[Auntie.Gerald]

DiMelb.......sometimes more words dont help :)..............The call of the wild wolfman has taken it very personally !

I still reckon blind freddy could "see" that with Braddy and C Bolts we would have 4 to 5 extra games up our sleeve.............Braddy not injured would have had us winning by 4 goals against the Bombers last weekend for example !!........The bombers would not have been able to cope with Braddy "uninjured" and reid on the field at the same time

That is the point lads and ladies...........we might have been higher up the table with two extra class players who will never play for us again and thats how it is...........but it does present a sense of why we are where we are on the table..........we needed those two guys massively to be top 4

the upside is 2012............AJ and Reid have had to carry a steep learning curve and could level jump massively again for next season.........

[wolftone57]

Auntie Gerald I did not take anything personally. I just believe that other sides were facing the same predicament as us this year and are surviving just as we are, a little worse off but getting there. Yes, hypothetically, we may have had a better season with Bolts2 & Braddy but we will never know. frankly I think B2 was the most damaging loss but we have managed to cover him with young AJ coming in and playing so well. The reason I think Braddy was less of a loss was firstly he didn't play many games for us and secondly sides who base their forward structure around a FF are struggling in the modern game. Not that he wasn't a loss, he was but I think that even if we still had him the forward structure would have to be much more flexible than when he played last. Kicking to the FF all the time is predictable just ask Carlton if the miss Fev and I think they will say not. They now have a much better forward structure with greater flexability & I think the loss of Braddy has forced us into the same position. I think we will develop a very good forward structure in the coming years & it will be with youth not old fellas, which means long term plans can be made.

[dimelb]

I didn't think you were taking it personally wt57 - all part of a robust discussion!

[Hartijon]

To place any kind of expectation on a guy with a degenerative knee near the end of his career and another player with Achilles heel problems was utter foolishness.

[goswannie14]

Yeah I don't rate Maxwell as a player, to me he is average but works hard. Plays well as a loose player and does the one percenters (which average players need to do to play AFL!)Yep agree with that. He's about as bright as a Collingwood supporter too.