Swans 2013 Draft Strategy

[Bloody Hell]

With the draft order firming up, can anyone speculate about the possible selections to be taken by the Swans in the draft?

For mine the needs are pretty straight forward, in two categories:

1. Big Bodied Midfielders - With ROK almost retired and Freo and the Swans demonstrating the value of this type of player, I'd be suprised if it wasn't a priority. JPK will be Robinson Crusoe very soon.

2. Ruck or 2nd Forward/Ruck - pretty straight forward, losing Mummy and White leaves a massive hole. Interesting to see how this is addressed. Will someone like Seaby be redrafted, or will they go with development, with picks or rookies, or a combination of everything? Is Naismith ready if required? Were they hiding Dawes? All shall be revealed.

Any thoughts?

[Triple B]

1. Big Bodied Midfielders - With ROK almost retired and Freo and the Swans demonstrating the value of this type of player, I'd be suprised if it wasn't a priority. JPK will be Robinson Crusoe very soon.



Luke Parker is more than capable of playing that role. He does it now as a part timer, when ROK goes it will be a full time gig. With another pre-season or two, Mitchell will also be that type.

Hard big bodied midfielders are the least if our problems IMO.

[GongSwan]

I would have thought running defenders was more of a priority with Rhyce and Mal heading toward the end

[GordonS]

i agree strongly with the need for big-bodied mids. we do have a lot of excellent and strong mids but none have the height and size of kennedy (other examples are watson, swan, etc). i actually think jonathon marsh could be picked up for this role. i explained my reason for this in another thread

[Ludwig]

Here's the latest top 20 guide from Callum Twomey: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-09/phantom-draft

We don't have any glaring weaknesses, especially now that we have stitched up the tall forward situation for quite some time.

The loss of Mummy means that we need a backup experienced ruckman in case Pyke gets injured as Naismith probably can use another year or 2 of development and can't expect anything from Patrick Mitchell for a while. We can probably rookie either Mark Seaby or Jolly for a year to get us by. We might instead draft another development ruckman with our 3rd or 4th pick in the ND, now 39 and 44; Rory Lobb, Ben Brown, Nankervis and Apeness are a few of the higher rated ones in this year's draft.

We seem to use 2 big inside mids, one primarily offensive (JPK), one defensive (ROK) and one to take it away from the pack (KJ for example). Even without ROK we still have Parker, Mitchell and Bird who are all of the slower in and under types, so it doesn't seem as this is one of particular need. We also have Robinson coming in development, who has been playing that role in the reserves and Harry Marsh, who we may be grooming for that ROK role and should be around that size as well.

Although I don't think inside mids are a targeted area, Blake Acres, a big bodied midfielder who can play inside and outside, may well be available at pick 15 and could be the best available player at that pick. Jonothan Marsh should also be available at pick 15 and could be a similar player at AFL level.

Our age profile would indicate that tall defenders would be one area that might be targeted, although this is not rated as a good draft for KPP defenders. The best rated defender in the draft, Darcy Gardiner, should be available at pick 15. If our list managers rate him, we might just take this route. I would prefer to take Acres and wait until later in the draft for a defender. There is always next year when the choices should be better, as well as Ben Reid and a few Giants I believe still unsigned. It also gives Xav Richards another development year. He could be the one to replace his brother.

There were 3 good KPDs picked in the 50s in 2010, Cam O'Shea, Tom McDonald and our own AJ, so picks 39 and 44 may be put to good use for this purpose. Joel Tippett may be available as a rookie selection.

[giant]

Anyone else think that ROK slots into the Jude Bolton role on HFF this year? Bit of back to the future for him, but the midfield is starting to look like a slog to him.

[liz]

If this is the shallow draft people are touting it to be, I reckon it should just be a case of picking players with the attributes to possibly make it, rather than trying to pick a certain type of player.

There's a lad - Isaac Heeney - who will be eligible as an Academy player in next year's draft who could fit the bill as a really big bodied midfielder. He played in the U18 championships this year as an underager and caught the attention of many who follow this stuff closely (and have no Swans allegiance). He then played one game for the reserves late in the season as a top up, where he didn't look out of place. His tackling was great and he managed to kick three goals. Based on that limited viewing he looked more bulldozer than silk, but to kick three goals indicates he can take his chances.

It's hard to tell how big they are from afar but I'd guess he's closer to 190cm than 180cm. And solid too / big bodied too, not a tallish twig.

I expect we'll see a fair bit of him in the reserves next year and he certainly looks like a likely type.

[Flying South]

Anyone else think that ROK slots into the Jude Bolton role on HFF this year? Bit of back to the future for him, but the midfield is starting to look like a slog to him.
I'm with you giant. I think age has caught up with him a bit and was mainly being used as a tagger in the midfield lately. And thats a waste of his talents. He looked dangerous in the forward line later in the year. He is an acurate shot, a good mark and can crumb. he will provide good defensive oressure as welk. He will also draw there best small defender. I can see him getting 1-2 goals per game

[Bloodthirsty]

J-Tip.

[Reggi]

Would be surprised if Naismith isn't given 8 _12 games next year. Can't see much point recruiting 18 yo ruckman though.

I would think potential key defenders and more strong runners to support hanners and McVeigh would be a priority

Perris and Lloyd might already fit that bill. Beatson has gone after talent tjhat slips I.e. parker, so logic is not alwaysbthe thing.

Membrey will have to try and make himself into a big bodied defender

[Doctor]

Anyone else think that ROK slots into the Jude Bolton role on HFF this year? Bit of back to the future for him, but the midfield is starting to look like a slog to him.

Yep. I'd say it's quite likely, and would suit him. Parker into the midfield full time.

[GordonS]

Membrey will have to try and make himself into a big bodied defender

i actually a big-bodied midfielder is more likely for him. i was looking at some stuff earlier and saw that he is the exact same height as kennedy. obviously, he's much lighter being a younger bloke, but could definitely bulk up over the years. we've seen in the neafl that he's got some incredible strength and add that to his marking and goal-kicking ability, he could become a great big-bodied mid if he chooses the path/ or the coaches push him down that path.

[MightyBloods]

Anyone else think that ROK slots into the Jude Bolton role on HFF this year? Bit of back to the future for him, but the midfield is starting to look like a slog to him.

Agree with this. Not so sure ROK will like less time in the midfield though.

[Auntie.Gerald]

my guess is that would be a 2 year cardio programme and midfield change in ressies for Membrey

Kennedy had many many years of building his tank and midfield skills prior to joining the Swans

my guess is that we may still want to trade for a HBF and/ or midfielder and or back up ruck as we have accumulated some draft picks we may not want to use

[Ludwig]

Agree with this. Not so sure ROK will like less time in the midfield though.

You'd think he'd be sick of the weekly tagging roles and getting battered in the slog every game. It seems so much more dignified to end your career as a goalkicking half forward.

[Jeffers1984]

I like the idea of the Bolton type succession plan for ROK.
Perhaps next year when Mitchell is then 100% ready to take his job in the midfield.

[Auntie.Gerald]

You'd think he'd be sick of the weekly tagging roles and getting battered in the slog every game. It seems so much more dignified to end your career as a goalkicking half forward.

like Kirky ? :)

[Bloodthirsty]

my guess is that we may still want to trade for a HBF and/ or midfielder and or back up ruck as we have accumulated some draft picks we may not want to use

Who do you think are the available targets?

[Ludwig]

my guess is that we may still want to trade for a HBF and/ or midfielder and or back up ruck as we have accumulated some draft picks we may not want to use

With a 3 pronged tall attack of Tippett, Reid and Buddy, along with the return of Goodes, and your suggestion that ROK spends more time forward (which I agree with) and Membrey pushing for selection (he's the prototype mid-sized forward - only needs to build the tank), it is far from evident where Rohan will play next year. I think that may solve the HBF problem.

Then you have Lamb, Cunningham, Biggs, Towers, Lloyd and Perris queuing up for a spot that isn't vacant yet (midfield, forward, flank, anywhere). Plus you would figure that there will be at least one additional midfielder drafted this year. Why in the world would we want to trade for another midfielder? Our problem will be holding on to the ones we already have.

[Auntie.Gerald]

so it appears we now have picks as per below after Mummy and White picks are counted for

15, 35, 39, 44, 53 - 71, 89, 107, 125

I dont know who the swans would be targeting to trade a pick for but I cant help but think that if it is a skinny draft and if we loose Goodes, ROK and Shaw after season 2014 that we may still be after a 23 to 24 yr old signing as we are loosing a hell of a lot of experience and hardened snr players in 2013/2014 potentially

- Varcoe keeps coming up in different chats and I wonder if we gave up pick 44 or pick 44 and 71 if we could get him to come on board as our small running back is still critical to fill in years to come and maybe even in 2014 !

* ROK is somewhat covered by PArker and maybe even Birdy ?
* Bolton by Mitchell
* Goodes by Buddy
* Shaw by maybe Rampe ?? or a Varcoe style of player
* Mummy not covered in my eyes but who know the Tip and Pyke could be lethal !
* Mattner covered by AJ and or Rampe
* White doesnt need to be covered because if Sam Reid was fit he would have played all of 2013 but we always have LRT to help in the forward line if too many injuries

PS - Ludwig you could be right ie Rohan has all the potential to be a lethal HBF in attack..........Towers or Cunningham also have potential

[Ludwig]

Auntie Gerald, may I suggest that you look at the Swans player list and make a best 22 for next year. Could you kindly post it on here along with all the players you like, but couldn't make the best 22. Then we can chat about the holes in the side that need filling for next year and beyond, post-Goodes, ROK and Shaw.

[Bloody Hell]

Luke Parker is more than capable of playing that role. He does it now as a part timer, when ROK goes it will be a full time gig. With another pre-season or two, Mitchell will also be that type.

Hard big bodied midfielders are the least if our problems IMO.
There's a difference between inside midfielders and 6'2" monsters.

eg. Sewell and Sam Mitchell vs JPK and ROK

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i actually a big-bodied midfielder is more likely for him. i was looking at some stuff earlier and saw that he is the exact same height as kennedy. obviously, he's much lighter being a younger bloke, but could definitely bulk up over the years. we've seen in the neafl that he's got some incredible strength and add that to his marking and goal-kicking ability, he could become a great big-bodied mid if he chooses the path/ or the coaches push him down that path.

I believe he played alot of junior footy in the midfield, but moved forward in the TAC.

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I like Acres and Marsh - continuing the fascination with the brothers. Seems either could be anything, for the big men I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't just pick up a couple of rookies.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Ive popped down my 2014 estimate of our list with question marks against some players that maybe under pressure to remain on the list in 2014 vs some of our draft picks

Goodes, Tippett, McGlynn
Buddy, Reid, Rok

Hannes
Pyke
Kennedy
Jack
Macca
Jetta

Mal, Grundy, Smithy
Rampe, Ted, AJ

19. Parker
20. Rohan
21. Shaw
22. Mitchell

23. Birdy
24. Lambie
25. LRT
26. Cunningham
27. BJ
28. Lloyd
29. Biggs?
30. Towers
31. X
32. Membrey
33. Naismith
34. Lockyear?
35. Marsh
36. Dick
37. Walsh ?
38. ?

Rookies
1. Perris
2. P.Mitchell ?
3. Daniel Robinson

[ernie koala]

I doubt Biggs will be under pressure.

He certainly took his opportunity when it arose.

He showed great poise and a willingness to take on his opponent.

Another preseason will improve his strength and endurance.

I liked what I saw of him.

[Ajn]

I doubt Biggs will be under pressure.

He certainly took his opportunity when it arose.

He showed great poise and a willingness to take on his opponent.

Another preseason will improve his strength and endurance.

I liked what I saw of him.

I would agree, and why are we always on Birds back.
Look at how he polls in B&F, he does more than many here realise as a run with player...

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That said it is tough to pick the top 22 and you need a top 30 that can swap around and cover injury to be a contender

[chuckie]

Does anyone know if Biggs, Brandon and Xavier been kept on the senior list. Jack and Richards can go back on the rookie list but Biggs has to be kept on the list or be delisted.

[Cosmic Wizard]

Tippetts younger brother is available, and we do seem to love recruiting brothers.
Most of our backline seems to have only two to three years in them so we need some help there!

[Ludwig]

Ive popped down my 2014 estimate of our list with question marks against some players that maybe under pressure to remain on the list in 2014 vs some of our draft picks

Goodes, Tippett, McGlynn
Buddy, Reid, Rok

Hannes
Pyke
Kennedy
Jack
Macca
Jetta

Mal, Grundy, Smithy
Rampe, Ted, AJ

19. Parker
20. Rohan
21. Shaw
22. Mitchell

23. Birdy
24. Lambie
25. LRT
26. Cunningham
27. BJ
28. Lloyd
29. Biggs?
30. Towers
31. X
32. Membrey
33. Naismith
34. Lockyear?
35. Marsh
36. Dick
37. Walsh ?
38. ?

Rookies
1. Perris
2. P.Mitchell ?
3. Daniel Robinson

When I look at this list, it seems very strong to me. The fact that Bird and LRT are outside your best 22 says something about the depth. In fact, I feel reasonably confident that the senior capable list runs 30+ deep next year. There are several down the list that should be pushing for selection next year and few others by 2015.

We also should be adding another 5 or 6 players to the list by the end of draft period, and a couple of those should add some more excitement about the future.

The list is in very good shape. Certainly one that we can go into next year feeling reasonably confident with. From an age profile perspective, only the KPDs look vulnerable a few years our (post Ted), but I would imagine this will be resolved by the end of the draft period next year; we also have Reid as a possible swingman to fill the defensive gap if needed.

Ruck stocks are thin at the moment, but if you play only one genuine ruckman, it has to be that way. You can see why Mummy had to go. If we played 2 genuine ruckmen, then 2 of Parker, Mitchell, Rohan and Shaw would not be in the 21 starters (and Bird is already out of your best 22 list, which will not be the case from a perennial top 10 BnF player).

There's a fine line between depth and lack of opportunity. Playing careers are short.

I'm not worried.

[dimelb]

Ive popped down my 2014 estimate of our list with question marks against some players that maybe under pressure to remain on the list in 2014 vs some of our draft picks

Goodes, Tippett, McGlynn
Buddy, Reid, Rok

Hannes
Pyke
Kennedy
Jack
Macca
Jetta

Mal, Grundy, Smithy
Rampe, Ted, AJ

19. Parker
20. Rohan
21. Shaw
22. Mitchell

23. Birdy
24. Lambie
25. LRT
26. Cunningham
27. BJ
28. Lloyd
29. Biggs?
30. Towers
31. X
32. Membrey
33. Naismith
34. Lockyear?
35. Marsh
36. Dick
37. Walsh ?
38. ?

Rookies
1. Perris
2. P.Mitchell ?
3. Daniel Robinson

In terms of absolute best, I'd swap LRT for Reg and Lamb for Benny.
Otherwise, that's a formidable list of talent, to the point where it raises the question of whether the coaches/selectors will be prepared to take advantage of it by resting players from time to time. I imagine the players themselves may not be happy about such an arrangement, but we saw how it benefited Freo this year, and I wonder whether the time has come to do something similar (not on their scale of course) during the H&A season.

[Auntie.Gerald]

if we went with 38 list players and 3 rookies in 2013 what is your prediction for the total list numbers for the 2014 season ?

[dimelb]

I think we might have 38 and 4, depending whether we have to include Patrick M in the total.
Otherwise the club might be happy to go in with one or two under the maximum (which is what, by the way?) as a way of easing payment issues.

[Auntie.Gerald]

di

based on that who do u see moving on in my list of 41 total ?

also how many picks will we use to draft a player ?

14 and maybe 35 only ?

[Ludwig]

If we didn't have a use for picks 39 and 44, I don't see why we would have agreed to taking them in a trade. We might still package up a couple of picks and players like Everitt and Armstrong up gain a better position in the draft. I don't think the trade period is quite over for us yet.

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If high draft picks were the key to success, then the Melbourne Demons would be premiers

[liz]

if we went with 38 list players and 3 rookies in 2013 what is your prediction for the total list numbers for the 2014 season ?

Hard to make a 2014 prediction based on a 2013 scenario that didn't exist. We had a senior list of 38 and a rookie list of 7 in 2013.

[liz]

I think we might have 38 and 4, depending whether we have to include Patrick M in the total.
Otherwise the club might be happy to go in with one or two under the maximum (which is what, by the way?) as a way of easing payment issues.

Theoretically we can have as many as 9 rookies if we have a senior list of 38 (7 if we have a senior list of 40). Six regular rookies (4 with a senior list of 40) plus up to 3 category B rookies (NSW zone selections, international rookies).

A smaller rookie list could ease cash payments (in a modest way) but has no impact on salary cap since rookie listed players are completely outside the cap while on the rookie list and partially outside the cap if/when they are promoted.

[wolftone57]

With the draft order firming up, can anyone speculate about the possible selections to be taken by the Swans in the draft?

For mine the needs are pretty straight forward, in two categories:

1. Big Bodied Midfielders - With ROK almost retired and Freo and the Swans demonstrating the value of this type of player, I'd be suprised if it wasn't a priority. JPK will be Robinson Crusoe very soon.

2. Ruck or 2nd Forward/Ruck - pretty straight forward, losing Mummy and White leaves a massive hole. Interesting to see how this is addressed. Will someone like Seaby be redrafted, or will they go with development, with picks or rookies, or a combination of everything? Is Naismith ready if required? Were they hiding Dawes? All shall be revealed.

Any thoughts?

I don't think we need a forward for the next 5 years. As for ruck we have Naismith who is developing nicely and if we can draft a young partner for him it would be good. This could be done this draft or next.

Mids, mids, mids? How many bleeding mids and strong ones do you want? Mitchell, Lukie Parker, Lambie, Towers, Marsh (big and strong another Joey type), Robinson (is also a taller lad). Then add Lloyd, BJ, Hannas, Kizza, Benny, Jetts and even Biggs or Rohan. I think we have a lot of players to play with in the mids. I don't think outside speed is going to be a problem either as Jetts, BJ, Kizza, Gazza, Dick and Towers are all good for speed. Biggs for reliability.

What we do need to worry about is KP defenders and a young developing ruckman to partner Naismith. Tommy Walsh may fill the KP Defender role with Xav Richards but I would still like to develop a couple of young blokes as well.

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Tippetts younger brother is available, and we do seem to love recruiting brothers.
Most of our backline seems to have only two to three years in them so we need some help there!

He would actually be a very good fit. He could play on the tall KPP. Xav Richards taking the smaller man. But there is one problem, Port are showing interest and we are a few picks behind them in the draft.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-14/tippett-hopes-for-third-chance

[Ludwig]

if we went with 38 list players and 3 rookies in 2013 what is your prediction for the total list numbers for the 2014 season ?

As of right now, we have lost 6 senior list players and added 3, Franklin to the senior list, Perris and P Mitchell to the rookie list. This reduces the total player list from 45 to 42. If we use our top 3 ND picks and elevate Rampe and another rookie (Biggs for instance) we will be in the same position as last year with 38 seniors and 7 rookies.

My feeling is that there will be some additional changes, most likely involving Everitt and Armstrong, so the mix is likely to change a bit.

[wolftone57]

Does anyone know if Biggs, Brandon and Xavier been kept on the senior list. Jack and Richards can go back on the rookie list but Biggs has to be kept on the list or be delisted.

Biggsie hasn't been mentioned as a delisting or a trade so I presume we are keeping him and elevating him at the ND. I think he, Rampe & BJ have all deserved to be listed.

[lwjoyner]

Its hard to see the draft strategy getting 39 and 44 for Shane and Jesse doesn't seem too smart, Eagles still have 28 & 31 (reading 31 for yeo), GWS have 21 and 22 while Pies end up with the cream of 6 and 10 and who knows what in the Shaw/Adams deal.
Maybe we can get a reasonable mid (Acres) or a tall defender (Gardner) with 15 and perhaps Kurts brother who profile looks good with one of the 30's before upgrading some from the rookie list. Can we afford to leave BJ and Xav on the list and upgrade Dan (a certainty) Lloyd who maybe has exhausted his time on the rookie list and I am note sure about Robbo.

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I forgot abot Biggs who I also think may have exhausted his time as a rookie.

[wolftone57]

my guess is that would be a 2 year cardio programme and midfield change in ressies for Membrey

Kennedy had many many years of building his tank and midfield skills prior to joining the Swans

my guess is that we may still want to trade for a HBF and/ or midfielder and or back up ruck as we have accumulated some draft picks we may not want to use

I think Membrey was drafted to fill the kind of role that ROK did when he first came to the club. I think he is meant to be another VERY dangerous forward option who can take a very good mark. Think about it, no Goodes or ROK but we still have Timbo and he can take a very strong mark and he kicks very accurately generally. Her kicked 3.5 in the Eastern Conference Final and 6.3 in the Second Semi Final. He certainly knows how to score on the big stage and I think we are developing a very powerful forward set up. Think about this line up post ROK & Goodes.

Rohan/Bird Tippett Membrey/Reid

Lambie/Parker Franklin Benny/BJ

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I think we might have 38 and 4, depending whether we have to include Patrick M in the total.
Otherwise the club might be happy to go in with one or two under the maximum (which is what, by the way?) as a way of easing payment issues.

Patrick Mitchell is not counted in the 44 as he is an International Rookie and comes outside this number.

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As of right now, we have lost 6 senior list players and added 3, Franklin to the senior list, Perris and P Mitchell to the rookie list. This reduces the total player list from 45 to 42. If we use our top 3 ND picks and elevate Rampe and another rookie (Biggs for instance) we will be in the same position as last year with 38 seniors and 7 rookies.

My feeling is that there will be some additional changes, most likely involving Everitt and Armstrong, so the mix is likely to change a bit.

I don't know how you work that out AG? You cannot include Rookie Lists in the same breath as senior lists.

For a start we have lost;

Retired

Bolton

Mattner

Morton

Delisted

Brown

Traded

Mummy

Jesse

Six Senior positions up for grabs:

Done Deal

Buddy

Upgraded

Rampe

Biggs

BJ

Draft two in a shallow draft.

International Rookie

Patrick Mitchell

Last Scholarship Player

Perris

Neither Perris or Mitchell are counted on the list of 44 as BJ wasn't before them. BJ could be retained on the Rookie List, there is that option.

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Its hard to see the draft strategy getting 39 and 44 for Shane and Jesse doesn't seem too smart, Eagles still have 28 & 31 (reading 31 for yeo), GWS have 21 and 22 while Pies end up with the cream of 6 and 10 and who knows what in the Shaw/Adams deal.
Maybe we can get a reasonable mid (Acres) or a tall defender (Gardner) with 15 and perhaps Kurts brother who profile looks good with one of the 30's before upgrading some from the rookie list. Can we afford to leave BJ and Xav on the list and upgrade Dan (a certainty) Lloyd who maybe has exhausted his time on the rookie list and I am note sure about Robbo.

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I forgot abot Biggs who I also think may have exhausted his time as a rookie.

Lloydie has only been on Rookie List 1 year.

[Chilcott]

Was looking at the footage of Zac Bates in the attached link.

He moves excactly the same as Schwatta.

Appears to have a fair bit of pace and class.

Midfielders - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/2013-draft/draftees/midfielders/)

[dimelb]

di

based on that who do u see moving on in my list of 41 total ?

also how many picks will we use to draft a player ?

14 and maybe 35 only ?

AG, I note that Armstrong and Everitt aren't on your list and I have the impression that Tony still has a year on his contract - am I right? And I think Walsh is in the same boat.
I wonder if they will tell Dre that his time's up - I think he's out of contract, isn't he? Or will they try to keep his development going rather than start from scratch with an unknown quantity as a youngster?
The whole collection is an embarrassment of riches, and I can't recall a time when we were scratching around to move someone on. I think in other years Alex Brown would've stayed, but when you add a couple of superstars at one end, someone has to fall out at the other. To answer your question I'd be surprised if we didn't pick up at least three newbies.

And thank you for your friendly opening AG, but have a close look under my cybername on my posts!

[sharp9]

I thought I read in the NEW rookie rules that International and Scholarship players are now considered one of the 3 (Maximum) "B" rookies....along with zone players - that being the case we have do something with one of Robinson or Naismith.....I know that Internationals USED to be extra (I'm thinking back to MP first arriving)

[GordonS]

i like the look of darcy gardiner. could help fill the role of a key defender and may be valuable with richards and lrt getting a little old

[liz]

I thought I read in the NEW rookie rules that International and Scholarship players are now considered one of the 3 (Maximum) "B" rookies....along with zone players

That's my read on the rules.

[GordonS]

correctly me if I'm wrong, but i believe that we have to pick up at least 3 players in the national draft, not including rookie upgrades.

[Meg]

I thought I read in the NEW rookie rules that International and Scholarship players are now considered one of the 3 (Maximum) "B" rookies....along with zone players - that being the case we have do something with one of Robinson or Naismith.....I know that Internationals USED to be extra (I'm thinking back to MP first arriving)

I think you are right re rookie numbers. I was trying to understand the rookie rules earlier today and found the words below on the AFL site.

"starting from 2013 the maximum (number of rookies) will be reduced to six. These six rookies are now classified as Category A rookies.

In addition to these six rookie-listed players, each club can include up to three additional players (now referred to as Category B rookies) on its Rookie List provided the player either:

? has not registered in an Australian Football competition for three years immediately before inclusion on the Rookie List;
? is an international player, meaning he is not an Australian citizen and has not lived in Australia for a substantial period;
? is a former NSW Scholarship player with that club;
? is a former International Scholarship player with that club;
? is a rookie Zone Selection for clubs based in NSW or Queensland."

[Mug Punter]

Rory Lobb please if he is still available for our second round pick and a young defender at 15 if there is a good one available.

Reckon our midfield is well stocked at the moment

[Ludwig]

I would think that either Blake Acres or Jonathon Marsh would be available at pick 15. I like them both, but would lean toward Acres because of his versatility, although Marsh can play the third tall forward allowing Reid to play in defence.

I wouldn't spend pick 15 on a key defender. It's too hard to tell how they'll turn out. I actually think Gardiner looks a bit clunky and prefer either McStay or Cameron Giles, who should be available later in the draft.

At 25, Joel Tippett is unlitkely to go before pick 40, and is more likely not to be drafted. But could be a possibility for the rookie draft. Tippett is ready to go now, but we still have a couple of years to go before we need a key defender in earnest.

Despite this being called a below average draft, there seems to be a number of interesting prospects that should be available with our 3 picks 35, 39 and 44:

Jake Kolodjashnij: Brother of fraternal twin and top 10 prospect Kade. Is tall enough to be a key defender. Has many of the same qualities of his brother, but a bit bigger and slighly less agile because of it, but still very athletic.

Darcy Hourigan: Can play a key forward or defender, but probably not your no. 1. Is a tough, smart footballer who can take a strong mark and kick well. Has a bit of Tim Membrey about him but a few cmtrs. taller.

Tom Cutler: A tall midfielder that will probably be suited for a rebounding defender. Good agility and skills.

Jarrad Jansen: A big bodied midfielder that can play anywhere on the ground. Quick and skillfull. A bit like Acres, but not expected to go before pick 30.

Eli Templeton: Versatile and skillful Tasmanian Midfielders with Dyson Heppell Hairdo.

Ben Sokol: Fwd/Mid with elite endurance. Luke Parker body type and attitude.

Tom Langdon Def/Mid: 19 yo who missed being drafted last year. A solid player with a good all around game. Someone who can play a Mattner type role in defence or go forward and kick goals.

Max King: 2 mtr tall ruck forward from NSW. Might be zoned for GWS, but if so, will probably pass. Amazingly not at all unco for his size, in fact a very agile player. Looks a good prospect and worth a rookie pick at least.

Ben Brown: Athletic 21 yo ruck forward that might be a good option for a backup ruckman next year with some real long term potential. Looks ahead of Naismith at this point. Worth a look at pick 44.


Well, there's 13 names that we should have a reasonable shot at with our picks. I focused mostly on defenders and utilities and avoided mid sized to small midfielders and forwards, as we already have a few of those in development.

I think this draft flattens out a lot after the first round, so a pick in the 20s may not be worth much more than one in the 30s. There still will be some reasonable picks into the 40s.

[Bloody Hell]

Noone has an opinion on possible draftees>?

[robamiee]

KPP defenders is what we need...I have a feeling that REG may struggle this year, I don't think he had an outstanding year in 2013 and a few times we had to make changes as he was being beaten...

[i'm-uninformed2]

I have a slightly different take on this.

We could definitely use another key defender being taken in the draft and given time to develop.

But I think what we really need are elite kicks who will play the role of setting up play and distributing the ball. McVeigh is 28, Malceski 30. I actually think the one downside to losing Lamb is he was one of the more elite kicks and Everitt was actually a lovely kick. Jetta is too but plays a specific role, so too is Rohan.

Our other mids are sounds kicks, but not elite. Rampe has potential but beyond that, we want to find a couple of plays who can eventually be the ones who you use to break up play with their smarts and foot skills, particularly from the back half and the centre.

[Auntie.Gerald]

"Despite Jed Lamb requesting a trade to GWS, a suitable trade couldn?t be achieved during the Trade Period. With Lamb out of contract, he can explore other options via the National or Pre-Season Draft."

Swans Trade Period wrap - sydneyswans.com.au (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2013-10-25/free-agency-and-trade-period-wrap)


At next month?s AFL Draft, the Swans will hold selections 15, 32, 35, 44, and 53.

The Club will also upgrade first-year rookie-listed players Dane Rampe and Brandon Jack onto the primary list.

interesting !!!!!

- - - Updated - - -

armstrong ??

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armstrong ??

[annew]

All I can say is hank goodness trade week is over and we still have Reid, Kennedy and Smith after all the rumours

[scolsey22]

So rookie list wise we are allowed 6 CAT A rookies, which will be Perris, Richards,Biggs at least. 3 CAT B one of which will include Patrick Mitchell. Do rules allow us to keep all of Lloyd,Robinson and Naismith

[ugg]

Perris should be Category B along with Mitchell, but of course that category is quite full with Robinson and Naismith. I'm not sure what the specifics involved in placing any of those 4 into category A are.

[scolsey22]

I can't see us getting rid of any of the rookies of our list unless there is a rule that makes us

[Blood Tunnel]

So my interpretation of the whole Jed Lamb situation is this.
Lamb has more than likely been approached by GWS earlier in the year with an offer he can't refuse. We have an offer on the table for Lamb, not knowing he has been targeted by GWS. Lamb doesn't put pen to paper for our contract offer and Swans getting annoyed with him & probably suspect he has been 'got at'!

Depleted by injury for the finals with similar role players struggling & playing at 70-80% capacity, Lamb is over looked for the finals. A sure sign he won't be part of our plans going forward. GWS probably only offering pick 60+ for Lamb.
Everitt gets traded to Carlton but Lamb now has to get to GWS via the PSD, forcing them to use up their first pick that may have been set aside for another player.
Conclusion?

Swans not happy with Jed from way back!
Up yours GWS!

[aardvark]

Swans not happy with Jed from way back!Up yours GWS!

Spot on. I think young Jed may have got ahead of himself. There's more to this story IMO.

[MightyBloods]

Spot on. I think young Jed may have got ahead of himself. There's more to this story IMO.
If the rumour is true $1mill over 3 years from GWS...can you blame him?
I wonder now with salary cap space we up our offer to him.

[aardvark]

If the rumour is true $1mill over 3 years from GWS...can you blame him?
I wonder now with salary cap space we up our offer to him.

I think we have other players just as good with just as much potential that will now get a chance..........at half the price.

[Blood Tunnel]

If the rumour is true $1mill over 3 years from GWS...can you blame him?
I wonder now with salary cap space we up our offer to him.

No!
That sends the wrong message to others that may be in a similar position next year & the year after.
We take the hit now & save in the future.

[Meg]

I think we have other players just as good with just as much potential that will now get a chance..........at half the price.

And if we were to pay Lamb anything like the amount supposedly offered by GWS that would surely lead to a great deal of dissatisfaction amongst these other young players. Better to let him go. As has been said, good luck to him.

[Auntie.Gerald]

fire up ladies and gents

ive just poured the first glass of wine while making dinner at home with the Family !!!!!!

i best pop off now but seriously this squad we hav assembled for 2014 is outrageous !!!


outrageous !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl

:surprise:

[Mug Punter]

If the rumour is true $1mill over 3 years from GWS...can you blame him?
I wonder now with salary cap space we up our offer to him.

If this squad is the best they can do with an extra $1M in the kitty then they are in a pretty dire position.

If that number is correct then they are paying such massive overs it is not funny. Their massive front ended contracts to the likes of Scully, Davis and their other B grade players will also come to an end in a couple of years creating issues. Plus cannot wait for the likes of Patton, Cameron and Boyd to get pinched in 3-4 years too.

Yes they will be more competitive but from what I see of their squad they are miles behind GWS in terms of development and talk of them winning a flag this decade are very very bullish.

I would not offer him a cracker, use that money to lock in players that want to play for us.

[Matt80]

Spot on. I think young Jed may have got ahead of himself. There's more to this story IMO.

Jed Lamb had skills and potential but in my opinion he was not strong, quick or hard enough. The Giants like that type of player, but its not the sort of player the Swans will build its list on. The Swans list is built on players like Rohan, Parker, Goodes, K. Jack, Smith (hard, quick and strong) - ROK, Kennedy, Hanas, Bird (hard and strong) - Mglynn (quick and hard).

You would never see Jed Lamb throw himself at a contest like a Ben McGlynn. The Giants young players won't teach him how to do that.

He had the option of leaning this at the Swans and it would have made him a better more competitive player with a longer career. Now he will get more money over the next three years but will not become the sort of player the Swans could teach him to be!

[liz]

Jed Lamb had skills and potential but in my opinion he was not strong, quick or hard enough. The Giants like that type of player, but its not the sort of player the Swans will build its list on. The Swans list is built on players like Rohan, Parker, Goodes, K. Jack, Smith (hard, quick and strong) - ROK, Kennedy, Hanas, Bird (hard and strong) - Mglynn (quick and hard).

You would never see Jed Lamb throw himself at a contest like a Ben McGlynn. The Giants young players won't teach him how to do that.

He had the option of leaning this at the Swans and it would have made him a better more competitive player with a longer career. Now he will get more money over the next three years but will not become the sort of player the Swans could teach him to be!

I think that's a little unfair on Lamb. After a slow start to his career, he's shown this year that he has AFL-level attributes and is now a reasonable chance to carve out a senior career for himself. There's no reason to believe he can't develop his game at the Giants, as he might had he stayed at the Swans.

His situation was that he was down the pecking order at the Swans, who have a strong (and relatively young) midfield group including several who, like Jed, aren't over endowed with pace. He was offered significantly more money and the promise of more senior opportunities elsewhere. He would have been mad not to take this. Another two seasons played predominantly for the Swans' NEAFL side might have meant his career was over before it really got going. I am a little surprised the Giants rate him as they do, given the number of similarly aged midfield types they have, but that's the Giants' call.

The only disappointment from Swans' fans point of view (and, I suspect, the club's) is that he left it so late in the trade period to inform the club of his wishes. That severely limited the Swans ability to recover some value for him at the trade table, given his choice of destination and the Mumford situation. But for all we know, the Giants might only have come through with their big offer late in the piece.

[Dosser]

A couple of weeks ago he was the example of the new talent that will take the Swans to a golden era. Now he is obviously a hack who deserves to be at another club. Settle petals. If I was that age and another club whispered sweet nothings in my ear and told me how much they loved me and even proved it by opening their cheque book, I would be lured as well.

Lamb never got a game in 2012 while everyone else did - that must have hurt, and GWS were watching from the bushes. They obviously drove up beside him while he was walking home and offered him inducements to come back to Skoda stadium with them. It is a story that is in the headlines too often these days. His realisation will occur when they finally open the door and he walks into the room with such high hopes, only to find a sea of sad faces turn towards him - faces of other young men who once had the same hopes and dreams but now stare at him with the life gone from their eyes. His days ahead will be bleak. The promises he cherish will never materialise and his task masters cruel and unforgiving. He, like others, may try to escape each October when even the horrors of Collingwood seem like a refuge, but he is now at the mercy of men who will treat him only as a source of income.

Don't think badly of our Lambie. He is young and he has made a mistake. If anything we should grieve for him and let him know that he is forgiven and the door is always open for him. One day he may be back and he will need our help, not our rebukes.

[erica]

Yeah but Lamb is now effectively out of a job. He didn't accept the Swans' offer and the trade to GWS did not eventuate. If he wants to continue to play in the AFL, he will have to enter the draft and he may end up with another club (not necessarily of his choice). IMO he took a gamble and it hasn't paid off (yet).

[Dosser]

Lamb took a gambol?

[erica]

Lamb took a gambol?

:clap:

[Matt80]

I have been critical of Lamb, but I can see the other side of the argument . In any evident the amazing support he has given to Garry Rohan during his recovery shows he is a young man of great character!

[lwjoyner]

Lets forget about the past and whether or not we were gazumped by GWs. Here are my thoughts on who we draft. Like I said on the thread whispers etc I have used the writing of the AFL .com site Big footy phantom draft "experts" (I question this as if they were experts they would not statrt until all the postions were finalised.) I have also used Ludwiks postion on the whispers threads for ideas. By the way I have not seen any of the boys play. At #15 I agree with Ludwik that we should look for a bigger bodied mid (inside and outside) that may be available and from my analysis of my reading that could be Blake Acres followed by perhaps Cripps or Cutler. But I would differ here from Ludwik if Acres were gone I would probably go for Gardiner an All Aust U18 for the last two carnivals. At # 32 if we have Acres I would go for Gardiner if available or Joel Tippert (if not picked up by Crows at 22) his camp numbers are sensational and he has played senior footy for a number of years. I would pick either one as well at next pick #35 if both a still available as we need to start looking at replacements for TR and HG who I think struggled for many games last season. At our next pick of 44 I would go for some back up for rucks and I would pick Ben Brown ex Tasmanian who played for Werribee in VFL last year and looked good on TV. Not sure we will use any more picks on new boys and instead use them on upgrades. I still also think we may need another future half back flanker just in case AJ and RS don't come up. I am not sure Biggs is a man for this position.

[Matt80]

Does anyone think we need to get a back up experienced ruckman in the preseason draft? If so, who do you think would be available? It looks like Jolly could be signing with St Kilda!

[R-1]

We'll grab someone if necessary. There's always stopgap rucks around.

[aardvark]

Lamb never got a game in 2012 while everyone else did - that must have hurt, and GWS were watching from the bushes. They obviously drove up beside him while he was walking home and offered him inducements to come back to Skoda stadium with them. It is a story that is in the headlines too often these days. His realisation will occur when they finally open the door and he walks into the room with such high hopes, only to find a sea of sad faces turn towards him - faces of other young men who once had the same hopes and dreams but now stare at him with the life gone from their eyes. His days ahead will be bleak. The promises he cherish will never materialise and his task masters cruel and unforgiving. He, like others, may try to escape each October when even the horrors of Collingwood seem like a refuge, but he is now at the mercy of men who will treat him only as a source of income.


Geez, I might have to send him my Leonard Cohen records, sounds like he'll need them! :frown

[Auntie.Gerald]

If you havent had a chance as yet to watch video of the guys who have been suggested as a possible for the Swans no15 pick then have a look at the below and the names

there are some exciting prospects in the supposed "skinny depth of talent" draft

i personally think that because the "average" talent of the kids is lifting each year it creates a sense of less standouts in most peoples eyes..........look at Sam Reid getting picked up in the 50s or Luke Parker at 40..........they are serious young footballers !


AFL.com.au
Sydney Swans
Pick 15: A midfielder of top-10 talent might slip through to the Swans? pick, given a couple of late risers ? Bontempelli and Freeman ? should get into the early group. That could be Lewis Taylor, a powerful and quick 174cm runner. He could be best available at Sydney's selection
Around the mark: Jarman Impey, Luke Dunstan, Blake Acres


Midfielders - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/2013-draft/draftees/midfielders/)

[liz]

If you havent had a chance as yet to watch video of the guys who have been suggested as a possible for the Swans no15 pick then have a look at the below and the names

there are some exciting prospects in the supposed "skinny depth of talent" draft

i personally think that because the "average" talent of the kids is lifting each year it creates a sense of less standouts in most peoples eyes..........look at Sam Reid getting picked up in the 50s or Luke Parker at 40..........they are serious young footballers !


AFL.com.au
Sydney Swans
Pick 15: A midfielder of top-10 talent might slip through to the Swans? pick, given a couple of late risers ? Bontempelli and Freeman ? should get into the early group. That could be Lewis Taylor, a powerful and quick 174cm runner. He could be best available at Sydney's selection
Around the mark: Jarman Impey, Luke Dunstan, Blake Acres


Midfielders - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/2013-draft/draftees/midfielders/)

Reid was a pick 38, not a pick in the 50s. But still a good get at that point in the draft.

I'm wary about the highlights packages and they get a bit dull after you've watched a couple (which is about as many as I've watched). Most of them just show a player doing the exact same thing over and over, rather than give you an idea of their range of skills. Nonetheless, I did enjoy the Impey package. Very quick, slippery player whose tape includes some excellent overhead marks, acceleration away from midfield contests, skilful goal conversion and, most excitingly, excellent delivery - long and short - into the forward line. His bio indicates he's played in defence as well as up forward and a little in the midfield, so he could be a replacement for either McGlynn or Shaw.

[stellation]

I have to be honest, 174 cm doesn't fill me with too much excitement.

[Ludwig]

Of course, I'm going on draft player ratings from the experts, like Callum Twomey and Shifter, as well as the various write-ups and video. I also saw 4 of the under 18 championships on AFL video. A few big names didn't play in the champs due to injury, including Boyd and Acres. Unfortunately, Darcy Gardiner played mostly forward and didn't get much chance to impress. The clear standouts IMO were Dom Sheed and Cameron McCarthy. Billings, Scharenberg, Darcy Hourigan, Lewis Taylor and Christian Salem also caught my eye.

My guess, which is similar to Twomey's, is the top 10 will go: Boyd, Kelly, Billings, Aish, Scharenberg, Bontempelli, Kolodjashnij, McDonald (F/S:NM), Lennon and Freeman. If any of these drop to pick 15, we would have to take a serious look at taking him.

All the experts seem to think that WCE will take WA Dom Sheed at pick 11, and why not. A safe bet to be a solid AFL midfielder.

I think either Richmond or Carlton will take the 2nd best tall forward in the draft in McCarthy, which leaves 2 picks before ours. It's hard to say what GWS will do at pick 14, as they have an excess of just about everything.

So my guess is that it is likely that we will see at least one of Blake Acres, Christian Salem or Lewis Taylor at pick 15, and I wouldn't mind getting any of them. Salem is a bit like Hanners, including being a left footer, which is the only drawback IMO as we have so many. Although Taylor is short at 174 cm. he really does have the look of a Brent Harvey about him. He's so creative and can kick on both sides and was the Victorian under 18's captain as well.

Matt Crouch is probably the best genuine inside midfielder in the draft, followed by Dustan, and either one might get picked up in the top 14. I wouldn't be too interested in either, since we have plenty of inside mids. Jonathan Marsh is a bit of a wildcard as he clearly has talent, speed to burn and could be anything, but I doubt if any clubs, except GWS at pick 14, would be willing to take a risk so high in the draft. As previously noted, I don't think Gardiner is worth a pick 15, given the other options likely to be available, and he almost certainly will be gone by our second pick.

I really feel we need to nail pick 15. I expect Acres to go anywhere from pick 12 to 20 and hope he hangs around until our pick. I think he fits the kind of profile of player we need. If he is picked earlier, most likely either Salem or Taylor will slip. I would have to give serious consideration to Marsh if Acres is not available, as he almost certainly won't be around at pick 32.

I agree with lwjoyner about Cutler, but more at pick 32 or 35. I also like Ben Brown at pick 44, as this could be an option for our backup ruck problems. He's probably as good an option as Mark Seaby as an interim measure, with some real potential for the future.

I think Darcy Hourigan will be taken in the mid 20s, but if he is still available at pick 32, I would take him. Either of defenders Daniel McStay or Cameron Giles would be reasonable pick-ups for one of 2 picks in the 30s, both having the size and athleticism to be number one key defenders down the road.

How the draft goes from pick 35 onward will of course depend on what our first 2 picks will be. If we somehow ended up with Marsh and Hourigan, I would be looking for a midfielder at pick 35 and pass on the key defender at this pick. Jansen, Cutler and Templeton are all ones I like at this pick or 44. Jake Kolodjasnij is another that could well be available at 44 and even perhaps 53, and would seem worth pick at this stage of the draft, especially if we haven't picked up a key defender.

I can also see the possibility of using pick 53 for a mature age defender in either Joel Tippett or Mathew Sully of the Geelong Falcons. Both have had excellent years. NSW ruck forward Max King is another interesting pick here as well.

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Lamb never got a game in 2012 while everyone else did - that must have hurt, and GWS were watching from the bushes. They obviously drove up beside him while he was walking home and offered him inducements to come back to Skoda stadium with them. It is a story that is in the headlines too often these days. His realisation will occur when they finally open the door and he walks into the room with such high hopes, only to find a sea of sad faces turn towards him - faces of other young men who once had the same hopes and dreams but now stare at him with the life gone from their eyes. His days ahead will be bleak. The promises he cherish will never materialise and his task masters cruel and unforgiving. He, like others, may try to escape each October when even the horrors of Collingwood seem like a refuge, but he is now at the mercy of men who will treat him only as a source of income.



Perhaps Jed can look at this to cheer him up, instead of that sea of sad faces:

928

[Melbourne_Blood]

One of our top guns Jack isn't exactly a giant, not sure what differences a few cm's makes if your role is as a small midfielder anyway. Potentially it's an advantage, small blokes are tough to catch.

[liz]

I don't think being that size matters if you're quick and slippery. McGlynn is that height, as is Boomer Harvey. Crouch wasn't much taller. Don't think Paul Williams was either. It probably means a player won't become a full time inside midfielder, but there are plenty of other roles that are important too.

[Ludwig]

I have to be honest, 174 cm doesn't fill me with too much excitement.

I would say the same. Doesn't sound good on paper, but Taylor is a very exciting package. Think Brent Harvey. If you watch a number of highlight videos, you'll see how many times the number 7 pops up on the screen, including the one of Impey, who I think is just a tad behind the others at pick 15 and likely to go before pick 32.

[MadCanuck]

I would have to agree, an exciting player, also bifooteral.

[GordonS]

I have to be honest, 174 cm doesn't fill me with too much excitement.

ditto. we have plenty of small mids coming through.

[Nico]

I would have to agree, an exciting player, also bifooteral.

You mean he kicks equally well with both legs/feet.

[Ludwig]

I think Taylor will become an elite player but we probably won't have the opportunity to decide if we should take him, as he will likely be gone by pick 15. The worry with Taylor is that he is probably better than, but with similar attributes of both Perris and Lloyd and it's hard to see all three making it into our lineup before at least one wants to leave. Given the choice, I would prefer Marsh to Taylor, if only because he fills more of a need for the team at the moment. I also think a post Goodes forward line of Tippett, Buddy, J.Marsh, Membrey, Jetta and BJ would be a daunting task for any to team to stop, also allowing both Reid and Rohan to move to the backline.

[MadCanuck]

You mean he kicks equally well with both legs/feet.

Exactly - must be a term for it.

[Meg]

Exactly - must be a term for it.

Bifooteral described it perfectly for me.

[aardvark]

Bifooteral described it perfectly for me.

Ambidextrous maybe?......although I do like Bifooteral too......

[stellation]

I'm not anti-hobbit, I just think we need to really nail our draft picks this year and for someone that height to make it they really need to have something special. If this young chap has something special then fantastic!

[Matimbo]

Ambidextrous maybe?......although I do like Bifooteral too......
Yes, ambidextrous is the correct term - it refers in general to the state of being equally adept in the use of left and right appendages, hence it can be used for hands or feet (or any other combo of left-right appendages, I guess). But bi-footeral is just so damn good! Let's add it to the RWO dictionary.

[Mug Punter]

Seem to remember the Swans saying they recruit in the based on needs of the squad as opposed to pure player ratings. In that case I would like us to get a get a future A grader at pick 15 (a midfielder) and take the best available ruck at 32 in case we lose him before 44.

A tall defender with potential would also be good

[bennyfabulous]

Taylor looks a bit like Chappy to me. Doubt he will make it to 15. Fingers crossed tho.

[Ludwig]

Can a person who is two-faced also be described as ambidextrous? :idea:

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If I were Lloyd Perris or Jake Lloyd, I'd be hoping we don't draft Taylor. I'd be sweating on draft night thinking "take a big guy"

[BillyRayCypress]

So if we include Lamb we have 8 spots on the senior list.

Upgrade Rampe and Jack and that leaves 6. So far so good. Wouldn't one or both these spots be used in the draft number?

DOH !!!! just remembered who we recruited. 5 picks left.

I can't see the Swans using 5 picks in the draft unless they go into the PSD.

Is that right or have I missed an upgrade somewhere???

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Reid was a pick 38, not a pick in the 50s. But still a good get at that point in the draft.


Wasn't the gamble to take Reid a year earlier. As a result he came to us later in the draft than if we waited the following year when he would have been much higher and we would have missed out,

[liz]

Wasn't the gamble to take Reid a year earlier. As a result he came to us later in the draft than if we waited the following year when he would have been much higher and we would have missed out,

How was waiting a year an option? He was of draft age and always going to get drafted by someone, given his family's AFL background and his athleticism.

[monopoly19]

So if we include Lamb we have 8 spots on the senior list.

Upgrade Rampe and Jack and that leaves 6. So far so good. Wouldn't one or both these spots be used in the draft number?

DOH !!!! just remembered who we recruited. 5 picks left.

I can't see the Swans using 5 picks in the draft unless they go into the PSD.

Is that right or have I missed an upgrade somewhere???

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Wasn't the gamble to take Reid a year earlier. As a result he came to us later in the draft than if we waited the following year when he would have been much higher and we would have missed out,

I believe you're thinking of Hanners.

[liz]

Don't believe Hanners would have gone undrafted either. Campbell Heath, quite possibly.

[BillyRayCypress]

Well the bus conductor memory served me right. Found this article said that he only made the draft by 4 days and that is why everyone was unsure of him.

Leave the beer money on the fridge on your way out !!

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/sam-reid-is-the-unlikely-swan/story-fndv7pj3-1226457760531

[monopoly19]

Don't believe Hanners would have gone undrafted either. Campbell Heath, quite possibly.

The point was that we got him much later in the draft as an underage player (which is a bit of a gamble).

Apologies BRC - I didn't recall that story about Reid. And now I'm confused - they're both born in 1991, Hanners in Feb and Reid in Dec. If Reid only just made the 2009 draft cut-off (which I'm presuming means drafting goes on calendar year), how did Hanners make the 2008 cut-off?

ETA: Nevermind, wiki tells me the rules changed in 2009. So Reid was really only young in the context of that year's rule change. Many kids had been drafted younger (including Hanners) up to that point.

[liz]

The point was that we got him much later in the draft as an underage player (which is a bit of a gamble).

Apologies BRC - I didn't recall that story about Reid. And now I'm confused - they're both born in 1991, Hanners in Feb and Reid in Dec. If Reid only just made the 2009 draft cut-off (which I'm presuming means drafting goes on calendar year), how did Hanners make the 2008 cut-off?

ETA: Nevermind, wiki tells me the rules changed in 2009. So Reid was really only young in the context of that year's rule change. Many kids had been drafted younger (including Hanners) up to that point.

But it's only really relevant if you think most clubs aren't looking at a player because they are bottom-age. Hanners wasn't exactly a late pick. Nor was Reid really. Both were well known to recruiters (and both have fathers who played AFL). There might have been higher perceived risk because they were younger and therefore less developed - which might partly explain why they went in the 30s and not earlier. But that doesn't equate to a club taking a punt by getting in a year early. If a club seriously thought a player would probably go undrafted that year, and have to wait until the next, surely they'd wait til their last - or almost last - pick in the draft before they chose him.

[Ludwig]

The talk is that Tony A will be delisted. I wonder if they are waiting until he returns from Ireland to discuss a possible contract extension. I'd like to see him stay another year and see if some of the improvement he showed in the reserves is real. Anyway, with the loss of Jesse and Dre, we are really short on whipping boys at the moment.

[BillyRayCypress]

The point was that we got him much later in the draft as an underage player (which is a bit of a gamble).


Thanks M19 (sounds like a British Agent) that was what I was trying to say. He may have gone to someone later in the draft but certainly would have been a high draft pick the following year.

He wasn't as much of a gamble as Grundy but Grundy was rookie listed first.

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If Armstrong gets delisted then that takes us back to 6 Swans senior vacancies.

[Ludwig]

Thanks M19 (sounds like a British Agent)

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If Armstrong gets delisted then that takes us back to 6 Swans senior vacancies.

Then we might decide on using pick 53 on the spot, depending on who's available. It might even be set it aside for Mark Seaby, who could be the best backup ruck option in the draft and allow us to see how the development of Naismith and Mitchell goes.

Considering that we haven't delisted any rookies, and I can't see why we would as they've all played well this year, one additional rookie pick would seem to suffice; we've already added 2 with Perris and Pat Mitchell.

[sharp9]

Wasn't the gamble to take Reid a year earlier. As a result he came to us later in the draft than if we waited the following year when he would have been much higher and we would have missed out,Billy Ray I reckon the one you are actually thinking about is Daniel Currie who we took as a very young ruckman and the club were very forward in saying that he was not ready to be drafted but that they thought that he would be a top 10 pick the following year so they took a gamble.

The Swans were (as all teams always are) "delighted" that Sam Reid was still available at 38....he was hardly an undercover project. The article mentions he was being talked to by Collingwood, Freo and Adelaide - so, sorry to say it was not a "gamble to take him year earlier" just a matter of trying to choose the most worthy draft pick.

[liz]

Then we might decide on using pick 53 on the spot, depending on who's available. It might even be set it aside for Mark Seaby, who could be the best backup ruck option in the draft and allow us to see how the development of Naismith and Mitchell goes.

Considering that we haven't delisted any rookies, and I can't see why we would as they've all played well this year, one additional rookie pick would seem to suffice; we've already added 2 with Perris and Pat Mitchell.

They might even think about upgrading another rookie. Just because they've announced Jack and Rampe I don't think precludes them from promoting another.

[Ludwig]

They might even think about upgrading another rookie. Just because they've announced Jack and Rampe I don't think precludes them from promoting another.


Yes. We now have 2 new rookies and 2 upgraded. So for every rookie selection we plan to make might entail an additional rookie upgrade. That would keep the list sizes the same as last year. If Armstrong is delisted, you would think that would be covered by a rookie upgrade. Then it will depend on what we do with pick 53.

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They might even think about upgrading another rookie. Just because they've announced Jack and Rampe I don't think precludes them from promoting another.


Yes. We now have 2 new rookies and 2 upgraded. So for every rookie selection we plan to make might entail an additional rookie upgrade. That would keep the list sizes the same as last year. If Armstrong is delisted, you would think that would be covered by a rookie upgrade. Then it will depend on what we do with pick 53.

[BillyRayCypress]

Billy Ray I reckon the one you are actually thinking about is Daniel Currie who we took as a very young ruckman and the club were very forward in saying that he was not ready to be drafted but that they thought that he would be a top 10 pick the following year so they took a gamble.

The Swans were (as all teams always are) "delighted" that Sam Reid was still available at 38....he was hardly an undercover project. The article mentions he was being talked to by Collingwood, Freo and Adelaide - so, sorry to say it was not a "gamble to take him year earlier" just a matter of trying to choose the most worthy draft pick.

I had a look through the list to see if I had made a mistake and it was Reid I was thinking about. It's an insignificant point anyway now.

Seaby back at the Swans would be interesting. I thought his career was well and truly over with his crook knee.

So I'm guessing a pick in the PSD might be less of a gamble than pick 53 on an unknown.

[Ludwig]

I had a look through the list to see if I had made a mistake and it was Reid I was thinking about. It's an insignificant point anyway now.

Seaby back at the Swans would be interesting. I thought his career was well and truly over with his crook knee.

So I'm guessing a pick in the PSD might be less of a gamble than pick 53 on an unknown.

A pick in the PSD turns out to be the same as your last pick in the ND, doesn't it?

[liz]

A pick in the PSD turns out to be the same as your last pick in the ND, doesn't it?

Not necessarily. Some players only nominate for the PSD so can't be picked in the ND. But with delisted players available to be taken as free agents, a late PSD pick and no salary cap room to price a player we might like out of the reach of other clubs, it's hard to see an experienced player of value coming via the PSD this year (for Sydney).

[Melbourne_Blood]

Seaby's name has been mentioned quite a bit on here, haven't heard it anywhere outside of RWO. Apparently had a pretty good year in the Wafl, finished equal 8th In the sandover (equal with Paul Bevan, young Dayle Garlett finished equal 10th). You would have to question whether he has the desire to again relocate with his wife and daughter to Sydney, after just getting settled back in to WA. For maybe a year or two of being the back up ruckman on probably a rookie contract, who would only be playing seniors if Pyke were injured. Can't imagine it's a tantalizing prospect for a 29 year old.

[Ludwig]

Not necessarily. Some players only nominate for the PSD so can't be picked in the ND. But with delisted players available to be taken as free agents, a late PSD pick and no salary cap room to price a player we might like out of the reach of other clubs, it's hard to see an experienced player of value coming via the PSD this year (for Sydney).

If we are talking about Seaby, and he nominates for the ND, would there be any difference in taking him at pick 53 or the PSD? Is there a minimum contract length, and is it different for the ND and PSD?

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Seaby's name has been mentioned quite a bit on here, haven't heard it anywhere outside of RWO. Apparently had a pretty good year in the Wafl, finished equal 8th In the sandover (equal with Paul Bevan, young Dayle Garlett finished equal 10th). You would have to question whether he has the desire to again relocate with his wife and daughter to Sydney, after just getting settled back in to WA. For maybe a year or two of being the back up ruckman on probably a rookie contract, who would only be playing seniors if Pyke were injured. Can't imagine it's a tantalizing prospect for a 29 year old.

I would think that Seaby would get more than the minimum contract. Let's say 100k. Suppose you were an Perth bank clerk on 40k and you were offered 100k/an plus moving expenses to come to Sydney for 2 years. Would you do it? Seaby surely knows he can't get an AFL gig in Perth with 2 teams there having the best ruck stocks in the league, so he knows a relocation would be on tap if he gets drafted.

[Dan]

Plus if you were only going to play for 2-3 years max you would want to go to a top team on the slight chance you could be lucky and end up playing in a flag instead of 2 years bashing your body playing for a lesser club with no real gain at the end.

[Ludwig]

The so called experts as News Ltd have posted their top 20 phantom draft:

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/draft-experts-jay-clark-and-sam-landsberger-gives-their-predictions-ahead-of-the-afl-national-draft/story-fnelctok-1226747756197

They have us taking Matt Crouch (best rated inside mid in the draft - often compared to Tom Mitchell) at pick 15, but can't see us taking another pure insider midfielder. In fact, that would be the last thing I would be looking for in the draft. They always seem to think that playing at the SCG means you have to have a team overloaded with inside mids.

These guys have the much discussed Lewis Taylor at pick 17 and my favourite Blake Acres at 19 as well as Jono Marsh as a wildcard, so many of the names talked about as possibilities would still be in play for our first pick if they are right.

They have the Giants taking tall defender Darcy Gardiner at pick 14, which may be a good call, given that they lost Josh Bruce, Kristian Jaksch is rumoured to be unhappy and wanting to leave next year, and they didn't get an experienced key defender in the trade period. I thought that they might be interested in taking Crouch as someone who would benefit from having the big Mummy to play taps with.

Although I disagree with the player they assigned to us at pick 15, I actually do think they are spot on with the 1st 14 selections.

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I think this kid Josh Pitson has the best highlight reel in draft. He's just an incredible user of the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcctMnFRGfY

[Auntie.Gerald]

i wasnt massive impressed by Crouch compared to a few other options

[barry]

We havent got a good ruckman from the draft in the last 10 years. Why start now.

Imo they take too long to develop. No good for at least 5 years. Best bet is to poach them, or through rookie system.

[Ludwig]

We havent got a good ruckman from the draft in the last 10 years. Why start now.

Imo they take too long to develop. No good for at least 5 years. Best bet is to poach them, or through rookie system.

+1

It's so easy to pick up a ruckman in trade period, it's hard to see why you would want to use a ND draft pick on one. We now have 2 development ruckmen, which sounds about right. I'm more than happy with our starting duo of Pyke and Tippett. The only question is whether LRT as a backup along with the inexperienced Naismith and Pat Mitchell are enough to cover potential injuries. You can't go too crazy worrying about injuries. Perhaps us fans are less unclear about the ruck depth than the list managers. I suppose we'll find out on draft day.

[top40]

The talk is that Tony A will be delisted. I wonder if they are waiting until he returns from Ireland to discuss a possible contract extension. I'd like to see him stay another year and see if some of the improvement he showed in the reserves is real. Anyway, with the loss of Jesse and Dre, we are really short on whipping boys at the moment.

Gee I hope we don't delist Tony Armstrong. He is not a bad player. Very much a case of throwing out the baby with the bath water. Further, can the Swans afford to see the end of yet another experienced player? If Armstrong is delisted, that would make it 8 departures for this year, with only 1 experienced player, Buddy, coming in.

With that in mind, I am disappointed by the results emerging from this year?s trade. It?s nothing like our exciting 2009 Trade, (Bradshaw, Mumford, Kennedy, Selby, McGlynn), and subsequent drafting (Jetta, Rohan)

In order for Sydney to have a player list of 38, and if Armstrong is delisted, six players will need to drafted from the 2013 National Draft. For better for worse, in Season 2014, a fairly large proportion of the Swans? Senior list, (about 42%, not including Kirt Tippett), will consist of young players drafted in the past two years:
1. Tom Mitchell 2011 National Draft, currently aged 20.
2. Jordan Lockyer 2011 National Draft, currently aged 20.
3. Harry Cunningham 2011 Rookie Draft (promoted) currently aged 19.
4. Dean Towers 2012 National Draft, currently aged 23.
5. Harry Marsh 2012 National Draft, currently aged 19.
6. Tim Membrey 2012 National Draft, currently aged 19.
7. Matthew Dick 2012 National Draft, currently aged 18.
8. Kurt Tippett 2012 Pre Season Draft, currently aged 26.
9. Dane Rampe 2012 Rookie Draft (promoted), currently aged 23.
10. Brandon Jack 2012 Rookie Draft (promoted), currently aged 19.
11. Number 15: 2013 National Draft
12. Number 32: 2013 National Draft
13. Number 35: 2013 National Draft
14. Number 44: 2013 National Draft
15. Number 53: 2013 National Draft
16. Number 71: 2013 National Draft

If I add the current and retained Rookies, (Shane Biggs (aged 22), Jake Llloyd (20), Sam Naismith (21), Xavier Richards (20), and Daniel Robinson (19)), with say, three new Rookies, that could mean that exactly half (23 out of 46), of the entire Players? List for 2014 will consist of young and obviously inexperienced players drafted in the past 2 years.

No, please don't de-list Tony Armstrong.

[Melbourne_Blood]

If Tony couldn't get a game last year when Biggs , Jack, Cunningham all got games, then I doubt he will next year. Those kids will have another pre-season under their belt, Biggs in particular showed good skill and poise, plays in Armstrongs position and plays with more pace. Add the return of injured players like Shaw and AJ and I think Tony should go if someone offers him an oppurtunity, and I can't see the swans standing In his way.

[Auntie.Gerald]

we peaked with a superior list of depth in 2012 and 2013

we walked away with the chocolates in 2012 and came 4th 2013 due primarily to injuries and a couple other teams peaking which is every season to contend with

i think it is important to remember Bolton, Mattner, Morton were passed their best

Also Dre and Lambie have a lot to do to prove themself and could be taken over by a few others up and comers by mid way thru season 2014 !

Mummy is a top 4 team player no doubt and maybe a loss but in our current depth with tippo lending a hand we may even see an improvement in the ruck.......quite possibly

the new list of 2014 is tweaked top heavy in game breaking game winning players and that makes sense as we go for another shot at the title with a few older players that can still play the game very very well and a good 8 or so emerging players that are ready to soar ie rohans, jettas, parker, cunningham, mitchell, Reid, BJ, Rampe, AJ and maybe even Lloyd, Robinson etc etc could be knocking on the door

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Buddy the game changer (http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/buddy-the-game-changer-20131018-2vsha.html)

did anyone else get a chance to re this article?

i missed it till today

lets me get this straight !

1. If Caroline worked all year busting her arse for the paper.......and she had to go on a conference overseas and had a very close friend getting married on one of the last days of the conference - she is saying that she would stay for the conference cause that is what she expects buddy to do ????.........the game in Ireland was organised a long way in front of the marriage Buddy had to attend......so there is no doubt in my mind he made the right decision to attend both the series and the wedding !

2. Buddy to the Swans is at our peril or success - we went for a high risk high reward strategy which equally work or not !..........why have a go when everyone else walked around with their balls in their hands not wanting to have a go at securing Buddy............even though he wanted to come to Sydney we still had to put a deal together that no one else could match easily and secondly we are peaking and we are fighting fair for our market share.........anything less would be negligent and would scare the hell out of the AFL that we were laying down without a fight.

3. 10% each of the cap to two stars ie 20% combined is right on the money with any other sport around the world.....full stop !!!

4. we got the best out of our players and performance not because we didnt go for stars.........far from it........there was so many factors that lead to our success.......it was for many many reasons.......... but we always have brought in marque players in Plugger the best of all time, Hally and now Buddy. We are a club in a town that is so far behind League and Union and SOCCER it is not funny. OUr marketing dept would be laughed out of the room if we offered Ben McGlynn for a TV / Video shoot !!! ..........The HAWKS to traded for the missing pieces to their premiership ie Lake and without him they generally would have struggled down back on KP forwards.

5. Caroline claims we have tarnished our image at the Swans ? for me that image is only tarnished to a supporter of another club or a CEO of another club because they are now more then jealous. They were envious but now jealous and fearful of our line up..........especially on the back of two marque players being so keen to join the Swans......also Supporters of other clubs only support the Swans in a GF or Final when we are playing the pies or Hawks etc because they dont want the cross town rival club to win..... Reporters will only give the Swans the time of day when they spin spin spin that we are a bunch of reserve graders over achieving.........

[Ruck'n'Roll]

did anyone else get a chance to re this article?

i missed it till today.

It was the starting point of the thread below, which went for several pages.

Buddy the Game Changer (http://www.redandwhiteonline.com/forum/showthread.php/37131-Buddy-the-Game-Changer)

[scolsey22]

Dylan Addison I think would be a good player to have on the list fo a bit of depth

[Jeffers1984]

Jay Kennedy-Harris looks like something that we need. Small explosive forward with incredible defensive pressure but also versatile enough to push into the midfield to help Jetta with the slingshot.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Addison is a spud, who even the dogs don't consider worth having as depth. He may get a go at Melbourne, but I doubt any other club will show any interest.

[liz]

Addison is a spud, who even the dogs don't consider worth having as depth. He may get a go at Melbourne, but I doubt any other club will show any interest.

I don't completely agree with this. We and the Dogs are at different stages of the cycle. The Dogs need to fast track young players, and need as many as they can squeeze onto their list. For them, Addison is a list clogger.

We're a premiership contender with a very strong best 24 or so, but with practically no depth other than talented (we hope) but largely untested kids. Winning games next year matters far more for us than it does the Dogs. If we get another spate of injuries in 2014, there may be benefits to bringing in someone with experience, rather than going into games with 4 or 5 players with less than 10 games experience, as we did in 2013. Especially since, if this eventuates, a large core of our players with more than 10 games experience could well have less than 50.

Addison has been an effective defensive forward at times, can kick the odd goal or three, and can tag too.

Also worth bearing in mind that we've cleared a lot of list spots (some unwillingly) in a year when draft depth is said to be weak. If Addison really wants to prolong his senior career in any way possible and has modest salary demands, bringing him on a one year deal with an understanding he probably isn't best 22 and has to prove himself to win another year's contract might not be a bad thing. It's probably the kind of arrangement Morton was on and his two years at the club were not without merit. Another club might offer him something more attractive, but if not, I think it might make sense (especially as he's a local and grew up as a Swans fan).

[Melbourne_Blood]

You make a very good point Liz, it's hard to argue with that, damn you. I still don't rate him, and I just can't see what position he'd be cover for that we'd need. A medium sized, one paced, forward / mid. I'd honestly rather take Nahas, at least he plays a position in which we don't have a lot of options. Benny is our only true small crumbing forward and his form of late hasn't been very comforting at all. Like you say though if we can get him ( Addison) on the cheap we have little to lose, maybe we can get them both !

[GordonS]

surely grab addison for depth. doubt he'll cost much

[jono2707]

Addison is a spud, who even the dogs don't consider worth having as depth. He may get a go at Melbourne, but I doubt any other club will show any interest.

88 games - not bad for a spud. I'd love to have been considered a spud if that's the case.

Quite disrespectful to a guy who's made it to the top level and managed to play a solid fair few number of years as a professional footballer.

Ps we could do worse if we're looking for a local lad who wants come back home and bring a bit of experience to the 2's - plus a decent backup if required.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Jesus we can't use "spud" now without upsetting somebody ? Thats getting a touch precious Jono. Look, There's Been far worse players who have played many more games than Addison. IMO, he's a below average footballer.

[ned]

For what it's worth (i.e precisely nothing) I would take Addison in a heartbeat, he's not flashy, but I can't fault his endeavour. It's not a bad thing to have guys who would take a boot to the face just to put pressure on a kick.

[SimonH]

I think this kid Josh Pitson has the best highlight reel in draft. He's just an incredible user of the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcctMnFRGfYI agree that I really liked this. Not all disposal is perfect if you look closely, but he attacks the ball confidently, his best disposal is a pleasure to watch?and his composure, balance and discipline in sticking with the game plan (take a moment, check the free options, and hit someone up if they're free even if they're very close?never blaze away unless there is absolutely no alternative) is outstanding for a kid his age. There's always the odd bolter in every draft, but basically he has very little hype. So you don't need to waste your first pick on someone who will almost certainly be there at the end. With Rampe, Malceski, McVeigh filling in, Rhys Shaw going on and the excellent Alex Johnson coming back, he doesn't play mostly in a position/role where we badly need someone right now. But you could say that of most spots on the field for Sydney right now, and he could be great for the future. Definitely look closely for our last live ND pick (whichever one it is, won't be later than 53, and you'd happily punt that he'll still be there at that stage).

[jono2707]

Jesus we can't use "spud" now without upsetting somebody ? Thats getting a touch precious Jono. Look, There's Been far worse players who have played many more games than Addison. IMO, he's a below average footballer.

Don't mistake my thinking that calling someone a spud is disrespectful with my being upset. The term spud is bandied around a bit too often in footy circles, that's all.

[BillyRayCypress]

Don't mistake my thinking that calling someone a spud is disrespectful with my being upset. The term spud is bandied around a bit too often in footy circles, that's all.

I'd be blaming Spud Frawley for that.

Mr Potato Head has much more dignity to it I think.

[chuckie]

Of the current list we have 5 players yet to make their debut Membrey, Dick, Towers, Lockyer & Marsh, with an average of 32 players used each year and not knowing who we will draft are these players going to be ready to play this year, if not we may need to draft a couple of delisted players just to have a bit of extra experience on our list.

[GordonS]

Of the current list we have 5 players yet to make their debut Membrey, Dick, Towers, Lockyer & Marsh, with an average of 32 players used each year and not knowing who we will draft are these players going to be ready to play this year, if not we may need to draft a couple of delisted players just to have a bit of extra experience on our list.

good point. makes the delisted player free agency period and pre-season draft all the more important.

[DamY]

Does anyone envisage any other players (senior and rookie) to be delisted? I know Tony Armstrong has been mentioned but do you think anyone else is at risk?

[GordonS]

Does anyone envisage any other players (senior and rookie) to be delisted? I know Tony Armstrong has been mentioned but do you think anyone else is at risk?

surely not any more than maybe TA... given how many have already gone this season, and seeing as most of those had experience

[DamY]

surely not any more than maybe TA... given how many have already gone this season, and seeing as most of those had experience

Yeah I reckon the rookies have done really good, would be surprised if anyone gets delisted. A few more will hopefully be promoted soon. Lloyd could be at risk if another club can offer him senior opportunities I think (after he's put on a little muscle)

[Number 43]

Richard Tambling has been delisted by Adelaide. What if we picked him up in the draft and turned his career around? Tambling and Franklin starring in the same team would be a real coup.

[aardvark]

would be surprised if anyone gets delisted.

:surprise::surprise::surprise:

[707]

Now Armstrong has gone, Lamb to follow, if you do a best 22 for 2014 you'll find that we have absolutely no back up players and several of the best 22 like Goodes, Shaw, Reid, AJ are coming back from significant 2013 injuries.

We surely we can't go into 2014 with the list as it currently stands plus 5-6 draftees. There must be a plan to add 2 or 3 mature delisted types or we have our sights on some mature types in the ND rather than all 18 year olds.

I'm getting more and more worried by the day despite having faith in our clubs plan.

[ShockOfHair]

I'd be blaming Spud Frawley for that.

Mr Potato Head has much more dignity to it I think.

As much dignity as the ominous-sounding 'Golden Fist Award', created by Spud himself?

[Jewels]

Now Armstrong has gone, Lamb to follow, if you do a best 22 for 2014 you'll find that we have absolutely no back up players and several of the best 22 like Goodes, Shaw, Reid, AJ are coming back from significant 2013 injuries.

We surely we can't go into 2014 with the list as it currently stands plus 5-6 draftees. There must be a plan to add 2 or 3 mature delisted types or we have our sights on some mature types in the ND rather than all 18 year olds.

I'm getting more and more worried by the day despite having faith in our clubs plan.

Chill out and trust the powers that be. This time last year this forum had a squillion threads and a squillion posters going on and on about our lack of depth as we had lost TDL, Gordon, Meredith, Moore, Seaby and Spangher and only added (at that time) Harry and yet, after all the injuries we had through the season, we had enough depth to get us into the prelim.

[Flying South]

Does anyone think Alex Foster from Fremantle worth a go. "A former U18 All Aust, the traits he entered the system with ? elite kicking ability, composure and an ability to lock down on a variety of opponents ? haven't disappeared.

With Geelong's Andrew Mackie a player he has modelled his game on, he spent most of this season playing on tall and small opponents in the WAFL, offering rebound from the back half when he could."

[Melbourne_Blood]

Chill out and trust the powers that be. This time last year this forum had a squillion threads and a squillion posters going on and on about our lack of depth as we had lost TDL, Gordon, Meredith, Moore, Seaby and Spangher and only added (at that time) Harry and yet, after all the injuries we had through the season, we had enough depth to get us into the prelim.

How many senior games did that the group you mentioned play in 2012 ? I think it's a legitimate concern 707 raises. We're either putting a lot of faith into kids as injury back up ( even more so than last year

[Melbourne_Blood]

Or we're planning to get in some mature rejects

[Jewels]

How many senior games did that the group you mentioned play in 2012 ? I think it's a legitimate concern 707 raises. We're either putting a lot of faith into kids as injury back up ( even more so than last year

And how many injuries did we get in 2012? You cannot legitimately compare the two years because, with the exception of Mummy, every other player that has gone in this trade period was BACK UP ONLY so if we had the great run with injury last year that we had in 2012, it's quite likely that White, Lamb, Armstrong and Dre would have played very limited senior football last year and most on here would be calling them list cloggers. These blokes have every right to seek better opportunity else where and to earn better money then staying with a club "just in case".
Of all the players that have gone, it appears to me that Lamb is the only one that we hadn't planned on losing.
This time last year did anyone think the likes of Rampe, Biggs, Jack jn would be able to step up to the plate like they did? We have depth, sometimes you just need help to see it.
All i'm saying is have faith, our club knows what it's doing.

[barry]

Flsgs are won when u get a good run with injuries. You wont win a flag if players like armstrong line up in your grand final team.

[lwjoyner]

On the KB show this morning it was mentioned by GD that Jeremy Laidler might be on his way.

[Chilcott]

On the KB show this morning it was mentioned by GD that Jeremy Laidler might be on his way.

I would be happy to get Laidler. Don't know why Malthouse didn't rate him.

Was very good for Carlton the season before.

[Mug Punter]

Now Armstrong has gone, Lamb to follow, if you do a best 22 for 2014 you'll find that we have absolutely no back up players and several of the best 22 like Goodes, Shaw, Reid, AJ are coming back from significant 2013 injuries.

We surely we can't go into 2014 with the list as it currently stands plus 5-6 draftees. There must be a plan to add 2 or 3 mature delisted types or we have our sights on some mature types in the ND rather than all 18 year olds.

I'm getting more and more worried by the day despite having faith in our clubs plan.

No idea how much depth you actually requite tbh....

Of the players mentioned, Armstrong non senior quality, Mumford will be replaced in the ND or PSD, Jed was well down the pecking order, White replaced by Buddy. Dre was a squad player.

Season saw us blood Rampe, BJ, Mitchell, Biggs and Cunningham. Can see Membrey, Lloyd and maybe Naismith stepping up in 2014.

So really, we just need one or two fringe players to step up to the plate to get to the 28-30 genuine senior players required to be competitive.

Agree though that perhaps a senior player or two via the ND/PSD could be an option if the price is right

[707]

I would be happy to get Laidler. Don't know why Malthouse didn't rate him. Was very good for Carlton the season before.

I was surprised he wasn't in favour this year at Carlton. I know Brett Ratten mentioned Laidler's season ending injury in 2012 was the straw that broke the camel's back in their failure that season. Seem to remember him as a good reader of the play across half back and generating offensive run. Be a useful pick up given our list situation - and cheap too!

[Melbournehammer]

Flsgs are won when u get a good run with injuries. You wont win a flag if players like armstrong line up in your grand final team.

what crap. you win with great players and role players. stop bagging players. it is the team which wins the flag not the individual. paul bevan is a flag winner. mitch morton is a flag winner. shane ellen won a flag as a full forward.

[barry]

what crap. you win with great players and role players. stop bagging players. it is the team which wins the flag not the individual. paul bevan is a flag winner. mitch morton is a flag winner. shane ellen won a flag as a full forward.

I know it a little unfair to single out armstrong, but every team has a player that fans know wouldnt getting a game if they were premier contenders.

[Auntie.Gerald]

if we could all pick the two GF teams and the winner a year in advance just based on whats on paper we would be millionaires :)

[Mug Punter]

I know it a little unfair to single out armstrong, but every team has a player that fans know wouldnt getting a game if they were premier contenders.

Like Jesse this year...(harsh but fair)

[Matt80]

Just wanted to run through our senior list!

With Jed Lamb going we now have have a total of 32 on our senior list. This includes the elevations of B.Jack and Rampe!

Do you think we are going to get to 38 by drafting six players from the NAB draft

or

Will we elevate more rookies to the senior list or pick up some experienced players in the pre-season draft?

Taking 6 players in the 2013 NAB draft to go with our four NAB 2012 picks (who are all yet to play a senior game) seems like a lot of inexperience to carry on our list!

[WolfGang]

I thought that Biggs would have been elevated - seeing that it was his 2nd year on the rookie list.
(If he is not elevated - what happens to Biggs ????? )

I think that it may be a combination of:
1) Draft - 4 players in NAB draft.
2) 1 pick in pre-season draft
3) "keep" 1 rookie upgrade spare - i.e. only use 37 of the 38 spots (I think the club can do this)
4) Select new rookies with 2 to 3 year view / requirements i.e. ruck / tall defenders / tall/big midfielders (and fast !! - it is a wish list !!)

[liz]

I thought that Biggs would have been elevated - seeing that it was his 2nd year on the rookie list.
(If he is not elevated - what happens to Biggs ????? )

Seeing as he hasn't been delisted or promoted (yet), presumably he remains on the rookie list.




I think that it may be a combination of:
1) Draft - 4 players in NAB draft.
2) 1 pick in pre-season draft
3) "keep" 1 rookie upgrade spare - i.e. only use 37 of the 38 spots (I think the club can do this)
4) Select new rookies with 2 to 3 year view / requirements i.e. ruck / tall defenders / tall/big midfielders (and fast !! - it is a wish list !!)

Why keep a pick until the PSD. What tantalising prospect is going to be waiting at pick 14 (or whatever we have in that draft). Pretty much any delisted player can just be recruited as a free agent.

Minimum senior list size is 38. It's not an option to go into the season with a list of just 37.

[sprite]

We need to draft a small forward named Cotton.


Imagine the forward line of

COTTON TIP and BUD:rolleyes:

[caj23]

Like Jesse this year...(harsh but fair)

Disagree, he was one of our better players over our 3 finals matches and will be a handy player for Collingwood.

I like Armstrong and wish him well, but I believe his weak defensive skills would not stand up to the finals pressure against quality teams like Hawks, Cats, Dockers, hence he didn't get a look in most of this season and has now been delisted.

[ScottH]

We need to draft a small forward named Cotton.


Imagine the forward line of

COTTON TIP and BUD:rolleyes:

Don't know whether to laugh or cry at that one. ;)

[AnsweredPrayers]

Just wanted to run through our senior list!

With Jed Lamb going we now have have a total of 32 on our senior list. This includes the elevations of B.Jack and Rampe!

Do you think we are going to get to 38 by drafting six players from the NAB draft

or

Will we elevate more rookies to the senior list or pick up some experienced players in the pre-season draft?

Taking 6 players in the 2013 NAB draft to go with our four NAB 2012 picks (who are all yet to play a senior game) seems like a lot of inexperience to carry on our list!

We always seem to promote a rookie around NAB cup time. I'm sure they will be saying to some of the rookies "work hard over the preseason and there will be a spot on this list for you.....". Better to reward a great preseason than give a spot away as a Xmas gift.

[Dosser]

We need to draft a small forward named Cotton.


Imagine the forward line of

COTTON TIP and BUD:rolleyes:

Reminds me of the old line of Lawrence Angwin coming to us from Carlton so we would have had a half-back line of Angwin Nicks Goodes

[SimonH]

We always seem to promote a rookie around NAB cup time. I'm sure they will be saying to some of the rookies "work hard over the preseason and there will be a spot on this list for you.....". Better to reward a great preseason than give a spot away as a Xmas gift.Not sure whether the old 'nominated rookies' scheme still exists, but apart from that, you can't promote a rookie in the new year. After the final list lodgement (which is December), that's it for 'permanent' promotional I think you're thinking of the 'temporary' rookie promotion when the club has one or more players on t

[lwjoyner]

I think the rookie rules are 3 B category. Does this mean one of the current 4 needs to be upgraded to a normal rookie and who will it be , Naismith of Robbo?

[robamiee]

what about is it magnurs from the demons, seems to be a prolific ball winner...and maybe just having another mature strong body midfielder to back up JPK and OKeefe might be ideal...
KP defenders is my concern and also a small lightning quick forward...

[aardvark]

what about is it magnurs from the demons, seems to be a prolific ball winner...and maybe just having another mature strong body midfielder to back up JPK and OKeefe might be ideal...
KP defenders is my concern and also a small lightning quick forward...

I reckon if Roosy is dumping him there's gotta be a good reason.

[Mug Punter]

what about is it magnurs from the demons, seems to be a prolific ball winner...and maybe just having another mature strong body midfielder to back up JPK and OKeefe might be ideal...
KP defenders is my concern and also a small lightning quick forward...

Don't think we need Demons rejects

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But do tend to agree that one recycled player could be an option on top of the Ruckman replacement.

Our lack of depth could potentially be an issue - Jude, Jed, Dre, Jesse and Mummy could all do jobs plus AJ and Shaw have questions marks.

Looking at our current risk I classify 24 as genuine senior players with Cunningham and BJ close. Add a ruckman and mature age recruit and we get to 26. Guess we'll also see Membrey and at least one other player step up like this year. We should be OK but I do think we have swapped quality for quantity with the Buddy deal.

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Just saw we have recruited Laidler so the pieces are falling into place

[tasmania60]

maybe that's why hes gone
Disagree, he was one of our better players over our 3 finals matches and will be a handy player for Collingwood.

I like Armstrong and wish him well, but I believe his weak defensive skills would not stand up to the finals pressure against quality teams like Hawks, Cats, Dockers, hence he didn't get a look in most of this season and has now been delisted.

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what about is it magnurs from the demons, seems to be a prolific ball winner...and maybe just having another mature strong body midfielder to back up JPK and OKeefe might be ideal...
KP defenders is my concern and also a small lightning quick forward...
totally agree your next job should be swans recruiting department hurry hurry:hmmm

[707]

Having a read through the top 20 prospects on the AFL website, I'd be happy with any of those 20 that fall through to our pick at 15.

Where we need to excell again is with the picks 32, 35 and 44. Hopefully one or two good players slip into our range there.

Think we need to find a mature ruckman just in case Pyke goes down, we really only have Mike then a very raw Naismith.

Hopefully there's no first round shock like last year, when Towers name was read out I reckon 99% of us had no idea who he was and his 2013 confirmed our draft night fears. Hopefully he can step up in 2014.

[Mug Punter]

The ruck situation bothers me.

We could take our pick with whoever we want at 15 but may miss out completely at 32, then again rucks usually do not draft first round at all. Given the risk attached I would not be surprised to see our first round pick go on a ruckman. Maybe Tippett as well with a late pick and three young uns.

[Auntie.Gerald]

just wondering how a "Scott Pendlebury to join the Swans in 2015" rumour would affect the swans draft strategy

can anyone think of a more priceless look then seeing Eddie's face when confronted by this rumour

i just think this would be one of the funniest rumours spread of all time in AFL

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two words

Sam Naismith

he truly could back up and play some minutes behind Pyke, Tip and LRT later in the season - he has the talent and he will be wrestling with Tip and Pyke all pre season and season long

[Ludwig]

I would wait till pick 53 for a ruck. If it's Seaby, so be it. If we think the chances are slim for either Naismith or Mitchell succeeding, then use pick 44 to get another developing ruckman.

[Mug Punter]

[QUOTE=Auntie.Gerald;629727]just wondering how a "Scott Pendlebury to join the Swans in 2015" rumour would affect the swans draft strategy

can anyone think of a more priceless look then seeing Eddie's face when confronted by this rumour

i just think this would be one of the funniest rumours spread of all time in AFL

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As much as I'd love that I think we may be a little quiet in the elite free agency market for a few years

Hope you are right about Naismith, can't wait to start getting in the habit of getting down for the twos again in 2014. Problem is we shouldn't be relying on LRT and KT as our backup rucks.

Sure we have been scouting heavily and hope we have a list of 4-5 names that could fill a role for 12 months. If that's the case then don't waste 15.

Also depends largely on whether they reckon Naismith will be the long term solution and when. If they are targeting 2014 and are confident he will make it then I'd happily take a Seaby type for 12 months. I'd also be tempted to go for a young prospect if we can get him at the right price and Joel Tippett to add to the defensive stocks

[Primmy]

Naismith is still a developing kid (in afl ruckman terms) and although is a natural build, and can play btw, pinning our advance hopes on a single young underdeveloped ruckman is kind of premature. We have Tippett, Pyke, LRT at a pinch, and I am sure they will look at other options. In the meantime we have been able to run off opposition ruckman very well indeed, in fact it is a practiced art. Nothing is left unexplored at the Swans. Trust in the process.......kind of.

[caj23]

I would wait till pick 53 for a ruck. If it's Seaby, so be it. If we think the chances are slim for either Naismith or Mitchell succeeding, then use pick 44 to get another developing ruckman.

Doubt Seaby would want to move across the country again to play NEAFL on basic wages. His ankle was looking pretty shot by his final season with us anyway, his mobility was gone.

[ned]

Using the afl draft machine and watching a few highlights packages I settled on.
15. Johnothan Marsh (wanted a fast midfielder for first round)
32/35. Kennedy-Harris / Crouch / best available mids
44. Joel Tippett (not because he's Kurts brother, but because he smashed the combine testing and was the SANFL team of the year fullback. At that point you can certainly play).
53. Garlett (risk vs reward, if it works he's the steal of the draft, if it doesn't then he was pick 53 so it's no surprise).

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Which put me well out of alignment with the fans verdict. Ah well, back to tgw drawing board.

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Scratch that, fans verdict has us getting Lewis Taylor at 71. THAT would be the steal of the draft, he's supposed to be a chance for top 10! I now believe I am more sensible than the fans verdict and my selections should be adopted by the club :P

[GordonS]

i always find the fans verdict to be way off the mark

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but i settled for:
15. acres (need a big tall mid and he might be the best available at that time, if a better one slips thru then obviously grab it)
32. marsh (unpredictable player with awesome skills when he's on, needs a lot of polish)
35. garlett (i reckon he's certain to be picked up this year seeing as a lot of his off-field issues have been worked on. seeing as its an even draft i'd grab him now before another team does)
44. tippett (need another big defender. ned nailed the reasons why)

that still leaves the ruckman issue unsolved but i highly doubt we'll use more than four picks in the draft (but seeing as we've released a stack of depth players i could be wrong). 09 we used 5 but thats cos we had a crap season and really needed to rejuvenate the list

[707]

With our list currently at 33 players, we have five places to fill on the senior list to get us up to the minimum 38 senior players. Very unlikely there will be any more rookie upgrades or delisted types added so we'll use all five picks at the ND, 15, 32, 35, 44, 53.

Should get a very good player at 15, 32 and 35 could snag goodies but by 44 and 53 it looks to be very speculative. If we are going to take a "good" ruckman like Lobb or Nankervis (and I think we have to) we may have to strike with 32. Brisbane hold 33 & 34 as their 5th and 6th picks so that could be the ranking of pick they use to get a ruckman having taken 5 players already which are probably midfielders and a KPF or two.

So my thinking this morning is best player at 15, ruckman at 32, best player at 35, Tippett at 44, wild card at 53. But thats this morning, by this afternoon - who knows!

[wolftone57]

Having a read through the top 20 prospects on the AFL website, I'd be happy with any of those 20 that fall through to our pick at 15.

Where we need to excell again is with the picks 32, 35 and 44. Hopefully one or two good players slip into our range there.

Think we need to find a mature ruckman just in case Pyke goes down, we really only have Mike then a very raw Naismith.

Hopefully there's no first round shock like last year, when Towers name was read out I reckon 99% of us had no idea who he was and his 2013 confirmed our draft night fears. Hopefully he can step up in 2014.

Towers was very close to a seniors start in the second half of the season. Some of us were surprised he didn't get a start, just the sort of player to play against Freo by the way.

We need to draft players that are going to fill our needs not just go for the so called BEST! So many of those bloody mids we drafted as early or mid draft choices have been delisted. We DON'T need lots of mids as that part of the ground is under control. What we do need is KPP players, ruckmen (2) they take time to develop and by the time they do Naismith will be a veteran LOL. Maybe one this year one next or rookie. Where is the other need? We have a plethora of mids, three HBF in the wings (one can't kick for quids), Lots of forwards. One KPB, need one more and convert Tommy to back. Plenty of KPP Forwards in our line up and we might just take a KPP Forward rookie.

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just wondering how a "Scott Pendlebury to join the Swans in 2015" rumour would affect the swans draft strategy

can anyone think of a more priceless look then seeing Eddie's face when confronted by this rumour

i just think this would be one of the funniest rumours spread of all time in AFL

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two words

Sam Naismith

he truly could back up and play some minutes behind Pyke, Tip and LRT later in the season - he has the talent and he will be wrestling with Tip and Pyke all pre season and season long

i agree with the Sam Naismith comments. I also think he has big talent and he will be given a run this year, it is only a matter of when. At NEAFL level he is a star and his tap work is the best I have seen from a young ruckman since I saw Ottens first play for Richmond, how stupid were Richmond to lose him.

[liz]

So many of those bloody mids we drafted as early or mid draft choices have been delisted. We DON'T need lots of mids as that part of the ground is under control.

Who are all these mids we've delisted? Other than the ones who just weren't good enough, or couldn't get their bodies in shape. Don't think we've ever delisted a high draft pick because there wasn't room for a player of his type in the side.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

We DON'T need lots of mids as that part of the ground is under control.

Not sure about that, we tend to play 10 mids, McVeigh, Hanners, SOB, JPK, Bird, Kieren, Parker, Jetta, Goodes and ROK. If ROK was to fade like Jude did last year, and Goodes' injury woes continued, then we need to include Harry and who? Maybe BJ? Perris?
The cupboard starts to look a little bare, no wonder the Swans were "bitterly upset at losing Lamb to the Giants" - I expect we will grab at least another midfielder, probably with pace too.

[Dosser]

We need to draft players that are going to fill our needs not just go for the so called BEST! So many of those bloody mids we drafted as early or mid draft choices have been delisted. We DON'T need lots of mids as that part of the ground is under control. What we do need is KPP players, ruckmen (2) they take time to develop and by the time they do Naismith will be a veteran LOL. Maybe one this year one next or rookie. Where is the other need? We have a plethora of mids, three HBF in the wings (one can't kick for quids), Lots of forwards. One KPB, need one more and convert Tommy to back. Plenty of KPP Forwards in our line up and we might just take a KPP Forward rookie.

I think our policy has been to recruit rucks from other clubs and not waste a pick when the talls can be quite speculative. Also, I think I read that Tommy wants to go home at the end of next season, so I dont think we can count on him.

[Ludwig]

I think we are solid in the midfield. After ROK the next in line for retirement is Macca at least 4 years away.And there's quality in the depth.
With pick 15 a tallish utility seems best, someone who could play many positions. First choice is Acres, then Marsh. If Taylor is still around he will be hard to pass up. Only worry is that he is recovering from foot surgery. I always worry about foot injuries as they can take so long to heal.
With picks 32 & 35 I would be looking at Kpps. I would try to get 2 of McStay, Giles, Hourigan and Jake Kolodjashnij. But if someone like Templeton is available I would take him wih one of those picks.
With 44 & 53 it will depend on who we get with the first 3. I like the looks of Ben Sokol.. Reminds me a bit of Rok. Already has a big body and big tank. Sully and Tippet are possibles if we overlook Kpps earlier in the draft. Jensen is another big body with speed and goal kicking ability. I'm undecided about drafting another ruckman this year and if we do it only makes sense to get someone who can play round 1, as we already have 2 project ruckmen and 3 would be overkill.

[Mug Punter]

I think we are solid in the midfield. After ROK the next in line for retirement is Macca at least 4 years away.And there's quality in the depth.
With pick 15 a tallish utility seems best, someone who could play many positions. First choice is Acres, then Marsh. If Taylor is still around he will be hard to pass up. Only worry is that he is recovering from foot surgery. I always worry about foot injuries as they can take so long to heal.
With picks 32 & 35 I would be looking at Kpps. I would try to get 2 of McStay, Giles, Hourigan and Jake Kolodjashnij. But if someone like Templeton is available I would take him wih one of those picks.
With 44 & 53 it will depend on who we get with the first 3. I like the looks of Ben Sokol.. Reminds me a bit of Rok. Already has a big body and big tank. Sully and Tippet are possibles if we overlook Kpps earlier in the draft. Jensen is another big body with speed and goal kicking ability. I'm undecided about drafting another ruckman this year and if we do it only makes sense to get someone who can play round 1, as we already have 2 project ruckmen and 3 would be overkill.

To not draft a ruckman would be very dangerous imo. Again, I am sure we have been planning for this and will get someone as good backup for Pyke. Plus we have LRT (stop gap), KT (not ideal) and Naismith (if ready) as emergencies

Cannot see why we would risk Garlett, he seems a talent but a grade A idiot. Reckon he will go early in the rookie draft so he is on a one year no warning type deal.

Tippett if available would be good value. Add in three mids and you'd think we're done. Most teams play with 10-12 genuine midfielders in the 22 these days so need to keep restocking

[wolftone57]

Who are all these mids we've delisted? Other than the ones who just weren't good enough, or couldn't get their bodies in shape. Don't think we've ever delisted a high draft pick because there wasn't room for a player of his type in the side.

Over the last 10 years there have been quite a few Gordon, Meridith, Brabazon, Barlow, Fixter, Kruger, McNeil, Jared Sundqvist etc the list goes on. The thing is Liz all teams always draft far too many mids and have to palm them off or in the case of Cats too many ruckmen. We have a record of developing elite mids but we have also delisted quite a few who were picks 1, 2 or 3.

that they were not good enough to make the Swans list is my point exactly and several were top picks. We have really great success with Rookies and lower draft picks and if you look at our midfield you might just find that most of them were drafted later.

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Not sure about that, we tend to play 10 mids, McVeigh, Hanners, SOB, JPK, Bird, Kieren, Parker, Jetta, Goodes and ROK. If ROK was to fade like Jude did last year, and Goodes' injury woes continued, then we need to include Harry and who? Maybe BJ? Perris?
The cupboard starts to look a little bare, no wonder the Swans were "bitterly upset at losing Lamb to the Giants" - I expect we will grab at least another midfielder, probably with pace too.

BJ, Perris, Lloyd, Towers, Mitchell, McGlinn, Rohan (can play mids), Marsh, Robinson are they enough? By the way we do not tend to play all 10 mids as mids in the same team. We have played them in different positions ie Macca=HB, Parker=HF, BJ=HF etc. sometimes we use a rotation from forward/back to mids and did when in trouble against Freo (Macca went into mids from HB).

[Ludwig]

I don't think we are even considering Garlett. We have already added Perris. I hope we can get Acres or another mid with pick 15. And perhaps one more later in the draft. After the first pick the focus should be on KPPs.
If we draft a ruckman, it should be someone deemed more ready to cover for Pyke than Naismith. Otherwise what's the point?

[wolftone57]

I think we are solid in the midfield. After ROK the next in line for retirement is Macca at least 4 years away.And there's quality in the depth.
With pick 15 a tallish utility seems best, someone who could play many positions. First choice is Acres, then Marsh. If Taylor is still around he will be hard to pass up. Only worry is that he is recovering from foot surgery. I always worry about foot injuries as they can take so long to heal.
With picks 32 & 35 I would be looking at Kpps. I would try to get 2 of McStay, Giles, Hourigan and Jake Kolodjashnij. But if someone like Templeton is available I would take him wih one of those picks.
With 44 & 53 it will depend on who we get with the first 3. I like the looks of Ben Sokol.. Reminds me a bit of Rok. Already has a big body and big tank. Sully and Tippet are possibles if we overlook Kpps earlier in the draft. Jensen is another big body with speed and goal kicking ability. I'm undecided about drafting another ruckman this year and if we do it only makes sense to get someone who can play round 1, as we already have 2 project ruckmen and 3 would be overkill.

Who are the two project ruckmen? Pykie is well beyond the project stage and the only other I see is Naismith and he is a project. But who else?

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I don't think we are even considering Garlett. We have already added Perris. I hope we can get Acres or another mid with pick 15. And perhaps one more later in the draft. After the first pick the focus should be on KPPs.
If we draft a ruckman, it should be someone deemed more ready to cover for Pyke than Naismith. Otherwise what's the point?

The chances of getting a ruckman who is ready for AFL at this time are very poor. Next year when GWS and GCS both have to shed two more players maybe. Seaby would be a mistake and I can't see why we can't just keep developing Sam and pick up a new prospect and maybe Rookie list Dawes as I think he may be ok with a good preseason under his belt and he is a little older. that is Jacob Dawes by the way.

[GordonS]

cant see why we wouldnt risk garlett because:
a) if its an average draft like these so-called 'experts' say it is, then he may the only talented bloke down the order, seeing he definitely wont go in the first round. he could be a bargain pick up
b) he was rated a top 10 pick last year and had got under good year under his belt. u dont get rated a top 10 by mistake. this guy has some great skills
c) he's a kid. give him a break!! of course he's gonna have off-field issues. not every single draftee is as clean as a whistle. he's worked very hard this year to try and fix those issues and has said it himself that he has had to cut ties with some friends of his. bringing him to sydney might be just what he needs; time away from those bad influences and a new environment in which he can solely focus on football.

[Mountain Man]

I think Naismith played 4 games in the Reserves last year. He played as a top up in 2012, as a very young 'un.

Mitchell is converting from USA basketball, and would be very doubtful to be useful in 2014 in case of injury to Pyke.

[Ludwig]

Mitchell is the other project ruckman, Wolfie.

[The Big Cat]

Over the last 10 years there have been quite a few Gordon, Meridith, Brabazon, Barlow, Fixter, Kruger, McNeil, Jared Sundqvist etc the list goes on. The thing is Liz all teams always draft far too many mids and have to palm them off or in the case of Cats too many ruckmen. We have a record of developing elite mids but we have also delisted quite a few who were picks 1, 2 or 3.

that they were not good enough to make the Swans list is my point exactly and several were top picks. We have really great success with Rookies and lower draft picks and if you look at our midfield you might just find that most of them were drafted later.

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The only duds I would name would be DOK, Vez and Willouby. The ones you mentioned - Gordon (Rookie Upgrade), Meredith (lowish pick and injured all the time), Brabazon was a really low pick, Barlow (Rookie Upgrade), Fixter (PSD), Kruger and McNeil (Rookies never promoted) Sundvquist (low draft pick). I think our draft history has been pretty good.

[GordonS]

meredith was pick 26 which we traded away schneider and dempster for. a complete dud when u take that into account

[Auntie.Gerald]

Draft in focus: Christian Salem - sydneyswans.com.au (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2013-11-04/draft-in-focus-christian-salem)

would be perfect off HBF for us !!

[Mug Punter]

If we draft a ruckman, it should be someone deemed more ready to cover for Pyke than Naismith. Otherwise what's the point?

Agreed, think we may need to use of second round pick. I'll go as far as to say without a decent second ruckman we will not win the flag next year. Sure we all love Pyke but he will be stepping up next year as well and I am not sure he is a number 1 ruckman

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cant see why we wouldnt risk garlett because:

From all reports he is a grade A idiot and human ticking time bomb. Suspect he will be taken in the rookie draft where he can be discarded early if he stuffs up. Too risky IMO

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Mitchell is the other project ruckman, Wolfie.

Anyone expecting a Seppo basketballer to make an impression in his first season playing AFL is deluded. Maybe 2015 if we are lucky.

Not sure which camp I fall into re our drafting success. I'll go away and get back to you. One thing that cannot be debated is our ability to pick up recycled players to meet our needs. It won us a flag in 2012 and forms a huge part of our 2014 push

[Auntie.Gerald]

when did mike start - ie one or two pre seasons after joining the swans?

[liz]

It will be a miracle if we find someone lurking in the 30s of this draft who is going to step up and be a better ruckman than Pyke for 2014. It is a clear area of vulnerability, but we're going to have to hope that Pyke stays injury free, his upward improvement trajectory continues, and that between he, LRT and Tippett they can hold the position to an adequate level for the next season or two before other options emerge.

[Mug Punter]

It will be a miracle if we find someone lurking in the 30s of this draft who is going to step up and be a better ruckman than Pyke for 2014. It is a clear area of vulnerability, but we're going to have to hope that Pyke stays injury free, his upward improvement trajectory continues, and that between he, LRT and Tippett they can hold the position to an adequate level for the next season or two before other options emerge.

Agree with that assessment which is why I believe we will use pick 15 to plug the only glaring gap in our list. It's not worth risking a shot at a flag by waiting till the 30s IMO

[liz]

Agree with that assessment which is why I believe we will use pick 15 to plug the only glaring gap in our list. It's not worth risking a shot at a flag by waiting till the 30s IMO

But there's no-one who'll be sitting at no 15 in the draft either who fits the bill. Not unless Bellchambers, Kruezer (I have my reservations about him as a true first ruck), Leuenberger, Zac Smith, Zac Clarke, Ben McEvoy, Shane Mumford(!), or someone of that ilk is surprisingly delisted from their current club between now and the draft, nominates for the ND, and isn't snapped up by another club in the first 14 picks of the draft.

[aardvark]

when did mike start - ie one or two pre seasons after joining the swans?

He played Rnd 6 in his first season.

[Ludwig]

None of the top ruck prospects (Apenness, Lobb and Nankervis) is any more AFL ready than Naismith. Perhaps Ben Brown, who is unlikely to be picked before 35, is most AFL ready other than the likes of Jolly and Seaby. If we are happy with our first 3 picks, Brown could be worth a shot at 44. I wonder if Teddy's mate David Hille would give it a go as a depth ruckman for s year?

[Mug Punter]

None of the top ruck prospects (Apenness, Lobb and Nankervis) is any more AFL ready than Naismith. Perhaps Ben Brown, who is unlikely to be picked before 35, is most AFL ready other than the likes of Jolly and Seaby. If we are happy with our first 3 picks, Brown could be worth a shot at 44. I wonder if Teddy's mate David Hille would give it a go as a depth ruckman for s year?

Fair point, perhaps the club has just decided that KT will fill in if Pyke is injured, along with LRT filling in in the backline.

Ben Brown as a second rounder would make me feel more comfortable with the balance of the squad. If Naismith is the prospect everyone says he is then I guess we shouldn't waste 15 on him....

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Draft in focus: Christian Salem - sydneyswans.com.au (http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2013-11-04/draft-in-focus-christian-salem)

would be perfect off HBF for us !!

Can't see him being available at 15 somehow but looks promising

[DeadlyAkkuret]

I can't possibly express how much I hate the idea of Tippett rucking for us. He's a forward and averaged three goals a game when he came into the side.

Making him a part time ruckman would be a big mistake imo.

[Bloody Hell]

Agree with that assessment which is why I believe we will use pick 15 to plug the only glaring gap in our list. It's not worth risking a shot at a flag by waiting till the 30s IMO

We are the only team with serious ruck deficiencies, so there is no point in wasting a high pick in a draft with no standout ruckman....and our shot at a flag will be diminished by the time this miracle ruck man comes of age.

My thoughts match many of those I've read here - which is either a good sign or a bad sign, but - for what it's worth, my dream Swans drafting will look a bit like this:

15 - Blake Acres - the big bodied, skilled midfielder

32 - Jonothan Marsh - Seen a few drafts where he goes to our second pick, but most have him going to GC at 20 or 27. If Acres is gone at 15 - would pull the trigger there. He could be anything...or nothing.

35 - Apeness - FWD/Ruck - good mark, mobile and competitive. Again it seems the fad to draft ruck man later. I wouldn't take a pure ruckman though, as I think this will/has been resolved by the Swans.

44 - Tippett - at 24 is a good age profile for us and our defence. Good in the SANFL last year - and continues with the brothers theme.

53 - Seaby - yep, the S word. Immediate coverage for Pyke, and experience to guide Naismith, Apeness, Mitchell and (maybe)Dawes, who as I said in the OP I expect to be rookied...so we go from 2 rucks to 4/5 rucks. Not sure if Seabs is interested in coming back to Sydney - but he is exactly what we need atm. He knows our structures.

I thought we needed 6 picks, but others have said 5. If we need 6 I'd use 44 for the next Parker/Membrey as I can't see too much demand for Tippett and Seaby.

As I said, it's the dream draft so I realise some of the picks won't be there...but one can dream. :)

[GordonS]

can someone name me some swans players who have left the club, only to return and play some years later?? (apart from kennelly) i cant think of any

[Ruck'n'Roll]

can someone name me some swans players who have left the club, only to return and play some years later?? (apart from kennelly) i cant think of any
Now THAT is a fun off-season trivia question!
Paul Morwood, John Rantall, Warwick Capper, Paul Hawke, Laurie Nash, Bob Pratt, Ian Stewart, Brett Kirk, Barry Round, Fred Way, Roy Cazaly, Rob Clegg and Dinny McKay.
There must be more, anyone?

[Ludwig]

Plugger

[Scottee]

Now THAT is a fun off-season trivia question!
Paul Morwood, John Rantall, Warwick Capper, Paul Hawke, Laurie Nash, Bob Pratt, Ian Stewart, Brett Kirk, Barry Round, Fred Way, Roy Cazaly, Rob Clegg and Dinny McKay.
There must be more, anyone?

Jim Taylor

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Now THAT is a fun off-season trivia question!
Paul Morwood, John Rantall, Warwick Capper, Paul Hawke, Laurie Nash, Bob Pratt, Ian Stewart, Brett Kirk, Barry Round, Fred Way, Roy Cazaly, Rob Clegg and Dinny McKay.
There must be more, anyone?

Austen Robertson and Bob Kingston (I think).

[707]

We are the only team with serious ruck deficiencies, so there is no point in wasting a high pick in a draft with no standout ruckman....and our shot at a flag will be diminished by the time this miracle ruck man comes of age ................ I thought we needed 6 picks, but others have said 5.

If we really want a ruckman then the danger to us comes with Gold Coast having their third pick at 27, Brisbane their 4th pick at 28 and GWS their 4th pick at 29, these are the kind of selection numbers in your order that you might take a ruckman having already grabbed 2-3 midfielders. Our 2nd pick is at 32 then more danger for us as Brisbane have their 5th and 6th picks at 33 & 34 before our 3rd pick at 35. So who we see as the best ruckman in this draft is highly likely to be gone by then. It will probably depend on who is available at pick 15 and pick 32 whether we take the risk or whether Naismith is seen as a viable alternative if Pyke goes down.

Our senior list will be kept at 38 I'd reckon to save $ for a couple of big contracts we have in place. We had 38 this year, out is Bolton, Mattner, Morton, Brown, Armstrong, Mumford, Everitt, White & Lamb, down to 29, in Franklin, Laidler, upgrade Rampe B Jack up to 33 so 5 picks in the ND.

[Auntie.Gerald]

15 - Bontempelli has that James Hird about him and the kid is class and although most clubs go for a hard midfielder i think if he is available at 15 he is to hard to ignore....hopefully not another Johnston :)

32 - Marsh, Salem, Lennon or Freeman if still available for a HBF possie...........i think although Lennon is a forward midfielder he could be a Malceski off the HBF

35 - Issac Conway

44 - Matthew Sully looks a likely defender and at 20yrs of age and having played VFL last two years at the Cats would be my pick at 44 or even 35. The kid is a very mobile 196cm tall............Joel Tippett makes a lot of sense to me also and young 18 yr old strong mobile 194cm defender Cain Tickner is a player on the rise for sure down back

53 - Ziggie Alwan at 87kgs and 185cm and 25yrs of age this midfielder forward is a wildcard but has ability and is hard bodied ready to have a go in 2014/15 !


* Jonathon Marsh is very exciting and if still available at 32 lets take him but i doubt he will be.........i would NOT take him at 15 because we have already taken similar players ie Rohan and Towers early in the draft an unless one or two can seriously hold down other possies in the team besides the loose athletic mid tall then we have too many......

[goswannies]

Now THAT is a fun off-season trivia question!
Paul Morwood, John Rantall, Warwick Capper, Paul Hawke, Laurie Nash, Bob Pratt, Ian Stewart, Brett Kirk, Barry Round, Fred Way, Roy Cazaly, Rob Clegg and Dinny McKay.
There must be more, anyone?

Andrew Bomford (played a heap of ressies games for us, went to Essendon, then came back)

Colin Hounsell (the first guy to kick a goal at the SCG for us after relocating) played a short stint with Woodville in 1981ish before returning

Carl Willis took time off for WW1 I think

Ed Whitfield I think took time off during WW2

Herb Mathews (the father if the Brownlow medalist) player with Richmond & Melbourne between his 2 stints with South

Stan Wootton 1915,1920-1922

Ken Dineen 1939-41, 1944-5

Poddy Hiskins took WW1 off 1908-15, 1919-23. His brother Stan did too 1913-14, 1919-20

John Woolley 1955, 1960-62

[Cosmic Wizard]

We are the only team with serious ruck deficiencies, so there is no point in wasting a high pick in a draft with no standout ruckman....and our shot at a flag will be diminished by the time this miracle ruck man comes of age.

My thoughts match many of those I've read here - which is either a good sign or a bad sign, but - for what it's worth, my dream Swans drafting will look a bit like this:

15 - Blake Acres - the big bodied, skilled midfielder

32 - Jonothan Marsh - Seen a few drafts where he goes to our second pick, but most have him going to GC at 20 or 27. If Acres is gone at 15 - would pull the trigger there. He could be anything...or nothing.

35 - Apeness - FWD/Ruck - good mark, mobile and competitive. Again it seems the fad to draft ruck man later. I wouldn't take a pure ruckman though, as I think this will/has been resolved by the Swans.

44 - Tippett - at 24 is a good age profile for us and our defence. Good in the SANFL last year - and continues with the brothers theme.

53 - Seaby - yep, the S word. Immediate coverage for Pyke, and experience to guide Naismith, Apeness, Mitchell and (maybe)Dawes, who as I said in the OP I expect to be rookied...so we go from 2 rucks to 4/5 rucks. Not sure if Seabs is interested in coming back to Sydney - but he is exactly what we need atm. He knows our structures.

I thought we needed 6 picks, but others have said 5. If we need 6 I'd use 44 for the next Parker/Membrey as I can't see too much demand for Tippett and Seaby.

As I said, it's the dream draft so I realise some of the picks won't be there...but one can dream. :)

Can't the younger Tippett ruck???
In stands 197cm and check out his leap via his SA combine test:

Running Vertical Jump
Joel Tippett - 95cm
Tom Gray - 85cm
Byron Sumner - 82cm

Standing Vertical Jump
Joel Tippett - 79cm
Liam Jacka - 68cm
Tom Gray/Baydon Ngalkin - 66cm

Recruit him at 15 and see where the other good player fall, because I don't think he will last until 44.

[Auntie.Gerald]

i think with Kennedy, Jack, Macca, ROK, Parker, Mitchell, Birdy, Hannes etc we need to be looking for a little bit of a compliment with the midfield.......ie a couple more athletic taller midfielders so we dont get exposed against the taller more athletic midfield like Freeo again

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hold the phone !!!

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-11-04/17-days-to-the-draft-meet-jonathon-marsh

Swampy Junior wants to be a midfielder ..........thats his aim !!!

he is a gary rohan without the polish

[Ruck'n'Roll]

No comment on this kid, but Swampy senior hasn't exactly set the world alight in the two's midfield,

[chuckie]

Surely one of our 5 picks will be Biggs, clearly he did enough in his games to get a spot on the list.

[ernie koala]

I can't possibly express how much I hate the idea of Tippett rucking for us. He's a forward and averaged three goals a game when he came into the side.

Making him a part time ruckman would be a big mistake imo.

With you whole heartedly DA.

I sincerely hope they pick up a mature ruckman in the upcoming drafts, or if there is no one they like available, then use LRT as the backup ruckman.....

NOT Tippett, from what I've seen of him playing ruck for Adelaide....He's an elite full forward.

[Ludwig]

There's a bit too much panic about the ruck situation for 2014. Look at it tis way: We dropped backups Seaby and White, who few rated highly, and replaced them with Naismith and Mitchell. Naismith has looked promissing and will be 22 yo next year. He was outplayed but didn't look out of place against Billy Longer and did some good things around the ground.

Pyke replaces Mummy as no. 1 ruckman. He easily outpointed Mummy in the RWO bnf voting, so he is our consensus number 1 ruckman. Tippett takes Pyke's place as forward-ruckman. He's a step up as a forward and not a bad number 2 ruckman. Barring injury, I think it is a stronger combo than Mummy and Pyke.

We still have LRt. What is lacking is knowing if Naismith or PM can step up in case of emergency.

[liz]

I reckon one of the reasons the Swans were willing to sacrifice Mumford to fit Buddy into the squad was because they had lingering doubts about the structure of the team. Both Mumford and Pyke were clearly in our best 22 players, and hence they were both played for the whole of 2013 when fit and available. But we did look top heavy at times. Add Goodes and Buddy into the team (plus Reid as a direct replacement for White) and we are still a tall team in the midfield and forward line.

I can see LRT being used in the ruck if Pyke is injured. I can see LRT being used in defence, depending on who else is available. But I can't see him being used as a second ruckman, resting forward, if we have all of Pyke, Buddy, Reid, Goodes and Tippett available.

[707]

Agree Liz, we were too top heavy against the better sides. Franklin doesn't add to the top heavy problem as he is very quick and athletic.

What we need is a back up ruckman in case Pyke goes down, not a starting 22 ruckman. Who we take in the ND will tell us the likely team structure for 2014. Think we definitely need a ruckman in our picks, someone mature enough to pinch hit if necessary, that's why I like Lobb, a bit more mature, played against en and still stacks of upside with view to 2015 and beyond.

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15 - Bontempelli has that James Hird about him and the kid is class and although most clubs go for a hard midfielder i think if he is available at 15 he is to hard to ignore.......

Dream on Auntie, word from most of the knowledgable draft watchers (as opposed to media hacks) is that Collingwood upgraded from pick 11 to pick 6 to be more certain they get Bontempelli.

At pick 15 it will be one of Acres, Taylor, Dunstan, Crouch, Hartung, some fairly different players amongst that lot. Crouch is a Tom Mitchell clone, absolute ball magnet with questions at this stage about pace and endurance but the best magnet in the draft it seems. At the other end of the scale Hartung is high pace and high endurance. Pick 15 is at an interesting time of the draft this year. A real pisser that we didn't get fair value for Mumford so we could have had two picks around here.

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Surely one of our 5 picks will be Biggs, clearly he did enough in his games to get a spot on the list.

Not enough to get an obligitory two year contract which I understand is what he gets if he gets upgraded. Will he be a top 25 player in 2014-15?

[GordonS]

so what happens to biggs then?? isn't he only allowed two years on the rookie list? or can he accept a new rookie contract? otherwise he has to be upgraded

[caj23]

Not enough to get an obligitory two year contract which I understand is what he gets if he gets upgraded. Will he be a top 25 player in 2014-15?[/QUOTE]

Don't know whether Biggs will be upgraded or not, but the 2 year contract is incorrect, he can be upgraded with a one year contract

[Ludwig]

I believe Biggs can also be a third year rookie. We may want to wait to see who is still available at ND pick 53 before deciding on a further upgrade. It could be a pick we use to get a mature ruckman or Joel Tippett.

[Mug Punter]

[QUOTE=707;629847]What we need is a back up ruckman in case Pyke goes down, not a starting 22 ruckman. Who we take in the ND will tell us the likely team structure for 2014. Think we definitely need a ruckman in our picks, someone mature enough to pinch hit if necessary, that's why I like Lobb, a bit more mature, played against en and still stacks of upside with view to 2015 and beyond.
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Agree with this. Totally comfortable with having Pyke as number 1 with the other duties being shared. Agree that the structure with Mummy and Pyke was a little top heavy.

I would be very surprised if we don't recruit a ruckman in the ND, it will be intriguing to see who it is and where we take him at.

[Auntie.Gerald]

There's a bit too much panic about the ruck situation for 2014. Look at it tis way: We dropped backups Seaby and White, who few rated highly, and replaced them with Naismith and Mitchell. Naismith has looked promissing and will be 22 yo next year. He was outplayed but didn't look out of place against Billy Longer and did some good things around the ground.

Pyke replaces Mummy as no. 1 ruckman. He easily outpointed Mummy in the RWO bnf voting, so he is our consensus number 1 ruckman. Tippett takes Pyke's place as forward-ruckman. He's a step up as a forward and not a bad number 2 ruckman. Barring injury, I think it is a stronger combo than Mummy and Pyke.

We still have LRt. What is lacking is knowing if Naismith or PM can step up in case of emergency.

plus the new interchange rule will make it harder for two "ruckmen only" on the field me thinks - our two are also formidable forwards !!!!

[Ruck'n'Roll]

When I hear about s being too top heavy up forward last year, I sort of agree, but suggest that the problem wasn't an excess of height, more the lack of mobility/footspeed of that height. Having DirtyKurt and the resting ruckman up forward made it look like there were four goalposts instead of two sometimes.

[Ludwig]

Darcy Hourigan is featured today on the AFL website. He's one I'd be looking at with picks 32 and 35. He was impressive in the under 18 championships. He'll be around 192 cm and 100 kgs in a couple of years, much like Grundy, but is quicker and more skillful. Has good vision and has that natural footballer look to him. Can play forward or back. I think he lacks endurance at the moment, so will probably take a couple of years to reach AFL level in that regard.

[jono2707]

With the interchange cap maybe clubs will be seriously considering just one ruckman and a pinch-hitter from 2014 onwards? Perhaps the 192-196cm players who can pinch-hit in the ruck will become more important, as opposed to having 2 x 200cm+ behemoths in a side? Maybe LRT will play more in the ruck as a result? Even Goodsey???

Maybe young guys the size of Hourigan etc will be seen as having more value if they can fill in in the ruck as and when required?

Who knows, but our lack of experienced genuine ruckmen for 2014 could see us pointing in this direction.

[Ludwig]

With the interchange cap maybe clubs will be seriously considering just one ruckman and a pinch-hitter from 2014 onwards? Perhaps the 192-196cm players who can pinch-hit in the ruck will become more important, as opposed to having 2 x 200cm+ behemoths in a side? Maybe LRT will play more in the ruck as a result? Even Goodsey???

Maybe young guys the size of Hourigan etc will be seen as having more value if they can fill in in the ruck as and when required?

Who knows, but our lack of experienced genuine ruckmen for 2014 could see us pointing in this direction.

You would have to assume this is the case or we wouldn't have let Mummy go. Until the draft is over, it's hard to say what the Swans' brain-trust are up to in this regard. Who knows, but we could find ourselves with 3 genuine ruckmen going into 2015 if some of the hype around Naismith and Mitchell comes to pass.

There was also a recent article on the AFL website on Ben Brown, another ruck/forward possibility that might be AFL ready.

[Gezball]

I believe Biggs can also be a third year rookie. We may want to wait to see who is still available at ND pick 53 before deciding on a further upgrade. It could be a pick we use to get a mature ruckman or Joel Tippett.

Ugg, if you're out there, is this correct re Biggs being allowed to be a 3rd year rookie? You seem to be oracle on such matters.

[Mug Punter]

You would have to assume this is the case or we wouldn't have let Mummy go. Until the draft is over, it's hard to say what the Swans' brain-trust are up to in this regard. Who knows, but we could find ourselves with 3 genuine ruckmen going into 2015 if some of the hype around Naismith and Mitchell comes to pass.

There was also a recent article on the AFL website on Ben Brown, another ruck/forward possibility that might be AFL ready.

Hope we draft him, surely we need two ruckmen in our top 38

[ernie koala]

With the interchange cap maybe clubs will be seriously considering just one ruckman and a pinch-hitter from 2014 onwards? Perhaps the 192-196cm players who can pinch-hit in the ruck will become more important, as opposed to having 2 x 200cm+ behemoths in a side? Maybe LRT will play more in the ruck as a result? Even Goodsey???

Maybe young guys the size of Hourigan etc will be seen as having more value if they can fill in in the ruck as and when required?

Who knows, but our lack of experienced genuine ruckmen for 2014 could see us pointing in this direction.

That's fine, as long as Pyke doesn't get injured for any length of time...That will leave us with just a pinch-hitter.

Surely we will be recruiting a mature aged ruckman as backup/ insurance.

[Mug Punter]

That's fine, as long as Pyke doesn't get injured for any length of time...That will leave us with just a pinch-hitter.

Surely we will be recruiting a mature aged ruckman as backup/ insurance.

Let's hope so...

[GordonS]

bit of talk out of today that the swans might pick up rory lobb with the second pick if still available. probably too much other talent to use pick 15 on him

[Bloody Hell]

bit of talk out of today that the swans might pick up rory lobb with the second pick if still available. probably too much other talent to use pick 15 on him

Alot of Swans fans seem to like Lobb, but looking at his vision...I don't see it.

There are no top pure ruckman noted in this draft, and considering how long they take to develop I don't see the point in getting one for the hell of getting one. The more I think about it, the more I think it's better to identify something really raw and develop them - if there's no first round talent or trade ruckman in (though most clubs are onto this...making development even more of a roll of the dice).

That said there seems to be alot of FWD/Ruck in this draft that look pretty good - Apeness, Conlon, Brown etc

The one that I like is Jed Redden (Jacks brother) - his video looks very good, but there are no wraps on him at all - He didn't play U-18's due to school commitments, and it makes me wonder if the SA clubs are trying to hide him...:) We saw with White it takes 5-6 years to develop these guys, I can see him being something special (and I like the way his brother goes about it.) Considering it takes that long, if we are looking to replace Tippett and Franklin in 2020, now is the time to get them in (particularly since we can offset their big wages against a few rookie contracts for those years.)

The rawest with raps seems to be Angus Milham. It'd take at least 6 years to get him there....but it'd be worth it if he came good as a pure ruckman, though I don't really like the dinosaur ruckman. I like Darcy Cameron as a pure ruckman - he seems a bit more mobile than the average big man.

Anyway - I hope the Swans don't waste good picks on mediocre talent just because they're tall.

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i actually a big-bodied midfielder is more likely for him. i was looking at some stuff earlier and saw that he is the exact same height as kennedy. obviously, he's much lighter being a younger bloke, but could definitely bulk up over the years. we've seen in the neafl that he's got some incredible strength and add that to his marking and goal-kicking ability, he could become a great big-bodied mid if he chooses the path/ or the coaches push him down that path.

I think when they drafted him it was with this intention. He played his junior football as a mid, and I think only in his final year of TAC that he played FF.

In the seniors he's competing against Franklin, Tippett and Reid for a spot in the forward line.... can't see him pushing any of them out, or filling a key forward role at another club....though he has very long arms.

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More interested to see peoples starting 22, considering the known injuries for round 1, plus a couple of incidentals that are likely to pop up in the pre season.

[lwjoyner]

Don't understand phantom drafters saying that swans need a small forward. Think we have the guys who could play that role. Does anyone know monocle the swans drafter in the bigfooty draft. He picked Impey who at 177 is small , not sure we need this. He also picked Darcey Cameron at 35 a 205cm ruckman. Brown still free. Why dont bigfooty use one of our "experts". I am sure we could find someone who know what we really need. He also picks Darcey Gardiner at 15 and J Tippert at 44.

[GordonS]

Don't understand phantom drafters saying that swans need a small forward. Think we have the guys who could play that role. Does anyone know monocle the swans drafter in the bigfooty draft. He picked Impey who at 177 is small , not sure we need this. He also picked Darcey Cameron at 35 a 205cm ruckman. Brown still free. Why dont bigfooty use one of our "experts". I am sure we could find someone who know what we really need. He also picks Darcey Gardiner at 15 and J Tippert at 44.

so 2 KPDs, a ruck and a small forward. considering this draft is regarded as a 'midfielders' draft, i think its a great risk not choosing to draft any midfielders (impey can play mid but there's plenty of other blokes). considering we had the second best defence for the year, using the first pick on a KPD is probably not what we need

[caj23]

Don't understand phantom drafters saying that swans need a small forward. Think we have the guys who could play that role. Does anyone know monocle the swans drafter in the bigfooty draft. He picked Impey who at 177 is small , not sure we need this. He also picked Darcey Cameron at 35 a 205cm ruckman. Brown still free. Why dont bigfooty use one of our "experts". I am sure we could find someone who know what we really need. He also picks Darcey Gardiner at 15 and J Tippert at 44.

Small forwards need to be able to rotate through the midfield in the Swans setup, there's no chance that we'll draft anyone who can't do that

[Auntie.Gerald]

just ask Lambie caj23 :)

[wolftone57]

so 2 KPDs, a ruck and a small forward. considering this draft is regarded as a 'midfielders' draft, i think its a great risk not choosing to draft any midfielders (impey can play mid but there's plenty of other blokes). considering we had the second best defence for the year, using the first pick on a KPD is probably not what we need

Don't agree on the tall defender front. Teddy is 30, Grundy 27 & LRT 30. Our three main defenders are all getting to the end of their careers. Key defenders take time to develop too so we need to get them as early as possible and develop them. Add that most tall defenders retire around 30 so that does not give us too many years left to develop three talls. We have Xav but need two more.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Unless something untoward happens, AJ should also be ready to assuome KPP duties when Teddy retires.

[MightyBloods]

and there is a kid called Ben Reid who will be a restricted free agent next trading period. With ROK and Goodesy both potentially retiring don't be surprised if we have already shown interest thru his management.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Reid will command pretty hefty coin on the open market. Think our ability to recruit waving dollar bills is going to be severely diminished for quite a few years to come.

[Mug Punter]

and there is a kid called Ben Reid who will be a restricted free agent next trading period. With ROK and Goodesy both potentially retiring don't be surprised if we have already shown interest thru his management.

You'd have to think recruiting Reid would be a stretch but perhaps it is not too far fetched provided we bank on Tippett not playing on (for us) at the end of his four year deal.

Remember the Hawks will have an enormous war chest next year and will be almost impossible to outbid for any free agents they fancy.

In a perfect world I'd like us start growing our own again. Instead of having to recruit Ben Reid, at the end of 2014 I'd like to see Sam Reid established as a topline CHB and Xav and/or Joel Tippett being regular starters in the seniors.

[Primmy]

Wonder if having Jude as a player agent will give us any inside runs in the future....

[Jeynez]

and there is a kid called Ben Reid who will be a restricted free agent next trading period. With ROK and Goodesy both potentially retiring don't be surprised if we have already shown interest thru his management.

Ben would be very high on the Hawks' wishlist with Brian Lake nearing retirement, we simply can't outbid them.
Which is disappointing, because it would be VERY satisfying to see Eddie's reaction if we somehow managed to poach him :D

[wolftone57]

I looked at Johnathon Marsh and he was very interesting. A bit different, a centimetre smaller than AJ but played most of his junior footy as key back or mid. WA played him at CHF in the U18's Championships. He is very quick almost as quick as Jetts and for a big guy that is brilliant. His kicking is a bit wobbly at times because he fails to steady but I think we could beat that out of him. He could cause all kinds of damage running off a tall forward because of his booming kick.

[jono2707]

I saw a phantom draft today that predicts us taking Rory Lobb in the first round. If that happened I wouldn't be surprised as the ruck is our one area that we're now a bit thin on, and he sounds like the best available....

[Triple B]

Ben would be very high on the Hawks' wishlist with Brian Lake nearing retirement, we simply can't outbid them.
Which is disappointing, because it would be VERY satisfying to see Eddie's reaction if we somehow managed to poach him :D

If Ben decides he wants to come to Sydney, we just have to make him an offer that Collingwood can't/won't match. Hawthorn will have no say whatsoever.

That said, even if ROK and Goodes retire it may still not free up enough to get Ben and still have change to meet Hanners, JPK et al down the track...