Saddo - Bad Day or Bad Attitude?

[TheHood]

Look, I reckon it takes a while for defenders to gear up and forwards have it easiest at this time of year, BUT...

Saddo's play can only be described as arrogant at the moment. Trying to outmark opponents from behind, who the heck does he think he is?

At the moment, he really seems to lack ticker and really not sticking with team rules and not out to achieve team results.

He has two or three ok moments a game which involve a hansom mark but the simple things are just beneath him it seems. This has been going on for a year and a half now.

Jason is not in my top 22 at the moment and I would consider a stint down in Canberra to learn him some new discipline and show him what life is really like "beneath him".

[Rod_]

He is playing like a HBF not a key position player... Was behind and lacked confidence.. The return from injury - and has not regained any form!

Time on the ground will help - May need the other players around him to give him support, before he comes around. Still in my 22 at the moment - does need to lift to be a KPP.

He played in the middle for a while and had a roving position in the back line for a while also. Too many changes for me to follow.... Needs to have a few games with the others around and stay in one place .... get some confidence and defeat a forwards (Probally 2nd string forward to start) over a whole game!

Aaron Rogers look as if he is being groomed for a back line a standby option? Looked ordinary at times but did a few good things! Better than what I thought, for a first hit out?

Too may new faces I spend half the game with my nose in the record book checking numbers...

Liked Monty's game and McVeigh has been given the option to be the next Cressa. (Link man - setting up plays - running and run some more ball carrier) They need to play on the best to get better! Therefore Collingwood lost by 105 and we lost by 102 - 3 point win to the Swans next week?

Even though we got a flogging I did see some nice things for the youth. (We can't introduce this many young players and hope to win)



Rod_

[DST]

Originally posted by TheHood
Look, I reckon it takes a while for defenders to gear up and forwards have it easiest at this time of year, BUT...

Saddo's play can only be described as arrogant at the moment. Trying to outmark opponents from behind, who the heck does he think he is?

At the moment, he really seems to lack ticker and really not sticking with team rules and not out to achieve team results.

He has two or three ok moments a game which involve a hansom mark but the simple things are just beneath him it seems. This has been going on for a year and a half now.

Jason is not in my top 22 at the moment and I would consider a stint down in Canberra to learn him some new discipline and show him what life is really like "beneath him".

Absolute rubbish, just like the game yesterday.

Second run for the year (coming off a year of soft tissue injuries) and you expect him to hit targets and judge all marking contests.

I would like to see who is your best 22 considering the lack of tall options we have down back at present ?

Saddo, like the rest of the team should not be judged now after a 15 a side practice game and a pre season cup game. Wait until at least 8 rounds into the year and then assess how he is playing.

DST
:o

[TheHood]

Originally posted by DST
Absolute rubbish, just like the game yesterday.

Second run for the year (coming off a year of soft tissue injuries) and you expect him to hit targets and judge all marking contests.

I would like to see who is your best 22 considering the lack of tall options we have down back at present ?

Saddo, like the rest of the team should not be judged now after a 15 a side practice game and a pre season cup game. Wait until at least 8 rounds into the year and then assess how he is playing.


Soft tissue injuries must have been the reason he was attempting marks and not punching! There are times when you have to spoil, not out-mark your opponent who has that much delivery.

This is not new for Saddo either. Yesterday was not an unlucky day for him. His form is poor.

It would have been a nightmare for all defenders yesterday, but there still has to be some accountability and he's lacking big time and has been a heck of a lot.

[Captain]

Originally posted by DST
Absolute rubbish, just like the game yesterday.

Second run for the year (coming off a year of soft tissue injuries) and you expect him to hit targets and judge all marking contests.

I would like to see who is your best 22 considering the lack of tall options we have down back at present ?

Saddo, like the rest of the team should not be judged now after a 15 a side practice game and a pre season cup game. Wait until at least 8 rounds into the year and then assess how he is playing.

DST
:o

I totally disagree.

Saddo is a senior player who must stand up and show leadership. He obviously has trouble sticking to team rules and his disposal was that of a rookie. If he can't do the simple things in a pre-season game, then it will be that much harder in the really season when the pressure is increased.

Peter Wilson made a good point when he compared the disposal of Stevens to that of Saddingtons. Both relatively senior players, however Stevens hit targets with every kick whilst Saddington was all over the shop.

Regardless of where Saddo plays he must improve. I think he is an important player and in the best 22. If he doesn't perform in the first couple of games, a run in the reserves would do him no harm at all though.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by TheHood
This is not new for Saddo either.

This is the problem I have with Saddo in the backline.

He has a history of attempting to mark in the wrong position. He is a nice mark, but needs to understand that as a backman, you should be spoiling far more frequently than attempting to mark. Dunkley was an excellent mark, yet his spoils (attempt and effectives) were significantly higher than his marks and attempted marks.

It has nothing to do with Saddo's lack of match fitness and everything to do with his attitude/decision making.

[chammond]

I'm not going to get sucked into another stupid Saddo debate (although I'm buggered if I saw much wrong with his game), but it's interesting that he's drawing the flak, as opposed to say Schauble who got walloped by Fevola, or Kirk who got towelled by Stevens, or BBBBH whose kicking was atrocious, or Schneider who gave away a totally stupid nine-pointer?

He might not be Brownlow material, but he seems to be raising ire out of all proportion to his performance. Is something going on in Sydney that we're not aware of? Is he sleeping with someone's wife? or husband?

There must be some valid reason why a bloke who is going to play 250 games for Sydney should suddenly become chief whipping boy?

[anniswan]

Originally posted by chammond
I'm not going to get sucked into another stupid Saddo debate (although I'm buggered if I saw much wrong with his game), but it's interesting that he's drawing the flak, as opposed to say Schauble who got walloped by Fevola,

Schauble made Fevola look like a champion!

[Tooth Fairy]

I dunno if rogers was on fevola at the start of the game? But if he was, I was disappointed that he got taken off him. I thought he was showing some great stuff dashing away from his opponent to meet the ball. Agreed it's risky stuff, and it did cost him a goal (albeit fortuitous goal for fevola) but it showed gumsion in the young lad and a willingness to back himself.

[TheHood]

Originally posted by anniswan
Schauble made Fevola look like a champion!

Look the delivery inside Carlton's FF was constant and frequent. I don't blame the backmen for getting hammered as they did. What I am critical of was Jason's contesting. He should have been punching when he was attempting marks.

It's indicative of his attitude. His ambition is way exceeding his ability/core role at the moment. Needs to get back to basics!

[Doctor J.]

Originally posted by anniswan
Schauble made Fevola look like a champion!

Bit tough on Schaubs to slap all the blame on him.

A full back is only as good as the players around him, and when 3 players Kennelly, Matthews and Barry are missing out of our defence, add to that the early loss of Fixter and James, it makes putting together a reasonable defensive unit just a bit difficult I would have thought.

In addition our midfield clearly lacked any cohesion. No Bolton or Williams. Maxfield only playing half a game, and Kirk for whatever reason having a shocker, the delivery into the foward 50 by Stevens & Camporeale out of the midfield became all to regular. Schaubs must have felt like a mouse on a treadmill.

[Mike_B]

Originally posted by chammond
There must be some valid reason why a bloke who is going to play 250 games for Sydney should suddenly become chief whipping boy?

For me its because he's getting near to 150 games and is still making the same errors in terms of spoil/mark choices that he made 100 games ago. As someone else pointed out, as good a mark as Dunkley was, he always did the disciplined thing. This is what Saddo needs to learn, especially if he's going to be a leader on the field.

[chammond]

Bit tough on Schaubs to slap all the blame on him.

Agreed. But my point is: why is it okay to pin all the blame on Saddo but not on Schaubs or Kirk or whoever? Saddington may not have been at his best, but he had a better game than either of them!


As someone else pointed out, as good a mark as Dunkley was, he always did the disciplined thing.

That's always been a specious argument. Dunkley at 24 was nowhere near the player that Saddo is. Dunks was always just an out-and-out fullback, which Saddo will never be. In terms of pace, disposal and versatility, Saddo is light-years ahead of Dunks.

Dunkley made the absolute most of the skills he had, and that's what Saddington must do. Saying he should play like him doesn't make sense.

[monopoly19]

Originally posted by chammond
Agreed. But my point is: why is it okay to pin all the blame on Saddo but not on Schaubs or Kirk or whoever? Saddington may not have been at his best, but he had a better game than either of them!


I agree that Saddington probably had a better game than Kirk or Schauble, but I think people are focusing on Saddington more simply because both of those guys are pretty solid in their positions and perform consistently well during the season. Saddington on the other hand - we keep hearing how fantastic he is, and how important he is to the team, but he never seems to do too much that warrants it. He's a good player, but too experienced to still be trying to find his niche.

[penga]

i find it funny all these naysayers about saddington and how little they realise that one error in a game doesnt make a game bad

naysayers: did you watch the game on tv or were you there?

when watching on the tv a good spoil is hard to identify as the camera moves off fast... saddington also didnt have much to kick TO, up the ground, on sunday so can you expect him to hit the target every time?

[BAM_BAM]

I laugh at the bagging he gets when trying to mark instead of punch. Yep the rule is if in doubt belt the crap out of it forward. Where's all of the protesting when Leo does one of his leaps and falls flat on his face with the opposition ending up with the ball?

Leo's lucky in those cases there's usually a Kennelly or Matthews scooping the ball and running with it. Saddo doesn't have that luxuary playing in the centre of the field Schauble is not going to leave the goal square and his player to run out with it.

Saddo also missed a lot of last year which was his first playing in the current position. So add a new position recovering from injury and didn't he and his wife add a baby to the family last year too?.
Give the guy a break. Appart from a couple of rudimenatry errors his game was fine. At least as good as most of the others who stepped foot on the field.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by chammond
Dunkley made the absolute most of the skills he had, and that's what Saddington must do. Saying he should play like him doesn't make sense.

No, he should play like most defensive players - understand when to punch and when to mark. He misjudges those situations too many times.

[chammond]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
No, he should play like most defensive players - understand when to punch and when to mark. He misjudges those situations too many times.

I'm not allowed to talk to you.

The Tooth Fairy might get me.

[NMWBloods]

Aha - that gives me free reign then... oh the power of it all... mwhahaha... :cool: ;)

[penga]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
No, he should play like most defensive players - understand when to punch and when to mark. He misjudges those situations too many times.

twice in the last 7 months wouldnt be what i class too many times, the last time he did it was when we were playing carlton

[Tooth Fairy]

Originally posted by chammond
I'm not allowed to talk to you.

The Tooth Fairy might get me.
I've already taken all your teeth you old bastard :D:D

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by penga
twice in the last 7 months wouldnt be what i class too many times, the last time he did it was when we were playing carlton

I've re-watched every Swans game from 2003 in the past few months, some of them 2-3 times, and Saddo certainly chose the wrong option more than twice!

[penga]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
I've re-watched every Swans game from 2003 in the past few months, some of them 2-3 times, and Saddo certainly chose the wrong option more than twice!

ive watched the games numerous times myself, can you tell me exactly when saddington chose to mark instead of punch, between the last time we played carlton, and sunday

[NMWBloods]

Naturally I can't remember exactly every occasion. However during the course of 2003, he did it twice against Freo that I recall - both leading to shots on goal. Did it at least once against Brisbane. Did it at least once against Melbourne. And against someone else I can't recall which team, but I remember it was to the left of the screen of the SCG and tried to mark from behind at the CHB position.

[Sanecow]

Penga, I will do that for you if you tabulate the exact times of each game he is on screen, the score at the time and whether his socks are up or down.

[chammond]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
And against someone else I can't recall which team, but I remember it was to the left of the screen of the SCG and tried to mark from behind at the CHB position.

Wrong . . . . that was Bolton.

I just knew you had something personal against Saddo, and that proves it!

[NMWBloods]

No, it was definitely Saddo. I remember as I complained about it here. Bolton may have done it was well, however I think Saddo does it too much.

[floppinab]

I'm with NMW here.

I really *want* to like Saddington (something to do with the fact my father-in-law really hates him!!!) but his just misjudges far too often.
It stands out too cause more often than not he's so dirty with himself for screwing it up.

[chammond]

Originally posted by floppinab
I'm with NMW here.

I really *want* to like Saddington (something to do with the fact my father-in-law really hates him!!!) but his just misjudges far too often.
It stands out too cause more often than not he's so dirty with himself for screwing it up.

I've got no particular fondness for Saddington . . . I like to watch him fly for a mark, and I certainly think he's in our best 22 without any worries.

What gets me is the negativity in assessing his game. For example, plenty of people on this board have criticised his game on Sunday, mostly based on things he's done in previous games, as far as I can tell.

But not one post has noted that Saddo played on Kouta throughout the first half (until Kouta was 'rested') and shut him right out of the game. All the comments have instead been about how he had two (yes, that's right, two!) poor disposals in the first half of the first pre-season game.

To put it mildly, that's just bull****!

[hardluck_harry]

I just hope Saddington gets back to the form he showed in 2001 and 2002 when he stood up and was one of our best backmen.

As for punching from behind I doubt it's a hard and fast rule, Roosy probably leaves it to the player's discretion, of course it maybe a hard and fast rule depending on the quality of your opponent.

Only thing I like to see Saddo do this year, is when he plays on guys bigger than him like Carey, he shouldn't try to wrestle them. He should play off them and try and read the flight of the ball, hopefully Roosy is passing on some tips.

[NMWBloods]

Originally posted by hardluck_harry
As for punching from behind I doubt it's a hard and fast rule, Roosy probably leaves it to the player's discretion, of course it maybe a hard and fast rule depending on the quality of your opponent.

It's a pretty standard football rule. Trying to outmark your opponent from behind in the backline, without having a perfect position, is very very risky.

[Tooth Fairy]

Originally posted by hardluck_harry
As for punching from behind I doubt it's a hard and fast rule, Roosy probably leaves it to the player's discretion, of course it maybe a hard and fast rule depending on the quality of your opponent.


As NMW said it is pretty much a standard football rule that even the local under 11's teams use. If you don't think it was a team rule on that day then have another look at the incident and listen to the following comments by a team mate off camera.

I was pretty disgusted in the incident to be honest. Doesn't mean that I think saddo isn't any good. It could have been goodsey and I still would have been pissed. Deep down I think Saddo will get back to his best this year. I just got pretty peeved off at the time, probably because there wasn't a lot of joy in the game, and when I heard the comments made afterwards I thought "Yeah get stuck into him."

[chammond]

Originally posted by Tooth Fairy
As NMW said it is pretty much a standard football rule that even the local under 11's teams use. If you don't think it was a team rule on that day then have another look at the incident and listen to the following comments by a team mate off camera.


Yeah, I noticed that on the tape, but I couldn't work out who said it?

There didn't seem to be any senior players within earshot of Saddo, and he didn't even look round or pay any attention to what was said.

Made me wonder if it was coming from the crowd or maybe from the bench?

I thought it was interesting to hear, anyway. The umpire's mikes have certainly added an extra dimension to watching the game on TV.

[liz]

Originally posted by chammond
Yeah, I noticed that on the tape, but I couldn't work out who said it?


What was actually said? Is it printable? Couldn't quite catch it from my seat on centre wing and I don't have Fox...

[monopoly19]

Originally posted by lizz
What was actually said? Is it printable? Couldn't quite catch it from my seat on centre wing and I don't have Fox...

All I can remember hearing was "What are you doing mate? Don't you know the team rules?" Like Chammond, couldn't tell who said it.

[Tooth Fairy]

There was an "f" word. Something to do with frogs or someting I think :). I never taped the game and I can't recall correctly. Even if I had taped the game I doubt I'd go and rewatch the incident to get my facts straight. It's really a non issue now but at the time i was ropeable to say the least.