Other Teams and Games

[Ludwig]

I often want to make a comment about a non-Swans game or team, but don't want to start a new thread. Perhaps we could just have this one rolling along from week to week.


For those who didn't get a chance to see the WB v Hawthorn game and have access to a replay, I would definitely watch it. It was a game more than worthy of a grand final.

Hawthorn won the game in the end, but the Bulldogs were probably the better side on the day. They are such an exciting side to watch. They are just fanatical at moving the ball as quickly as possible. They're not afraid to kick backwards and transfer play to the other side. Everything is done at a relentless tempo. I wonder how they're able to play a whole game without killing themselves with exhaustion. They're not afraid to knock the ball into space and back themselves to win the ground ball, and beat Hawthorn 161-132 in contested possessions, usually a margin sufficient for a significant victory.

If I were a coach I would be very concerned how to play against the Bulldogs. Hawthorn managed to get by with their precise kicking and excellent organisation across the ground, and some critical marks and goal kicking from James Sicily. Sadly, it seems that Bob Murphy has done his ACL. You'd think he would give LARS a go given his age.

I wonder how we will handle the pace of play when we come up against them later in the season.

[aardvark]

I'm really sad for Bob Murphy. He's a class act and it would be a sad way for him to finish his career.

[snajik]

And it happened in the final minute of the game. Bruest was playing the man not the ball but the umpire seemed ok with it. A real shame. Great player. Fine man.

[liz]

We have a whole forum dedicated to other clubs / games. This thread is now in it.

[dimelb]

Regret and respect for Bob Murphy. We will long remember his support for Adam, and I hope we see him back on the field before he retires.

The Bulldogs look like a seriously good outfit.

[Danzar]

While not team nor game related, this shift in the AFL's online content is beyond acceptable: Why the Pies lose again - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/video/2016-04-14/why-the-pies-lose-again). It speaks for itself.

What the @@@@ is this and how do we stop it, like, right now?!

[dimelb]

While not team nor game related, this shift in the AFL's online content is beyond acceptable: Why the Pies lose again - AFL.com.au (http://www.afl.com.au/video/2016-04-14/why-the-pies-lose-again). It speaks for itself.

What the @@@@ is this and how do we stop it, like, right now?!

Danzar, I watched the Carey/Brown discussion, the former picking Melbourne, the latter Collingwood, and it seemed that (1) the headline was biased, unlike the discussion, and (2) some of us might be offended if it was said about the Swans. Is this what you were picking up or have I missed something?

[Meg]

I assumed Dan was referring to the wall-to-wall spruiking of betting (sponsored by Centrebet). I found the video offensive and unappealing to watch for that reason.

[dimelb]

I assumed Dan was referring to the wall-to-wall spruiking of betting (sponsored by Centrebet). I found the video offensive and unappealing to watch for that reason.

Now that makes sense. I tend to mentally block it out. When I do become aware of it I am annoyed - a complete mug's game - and while some punters make money from it (and more power to your arm) for too many it is an utter disaster, and I think the AFL shouldn't have climbed into bed with the betting bosses in the first place.

[Meg]

I think the AFL shouldn't have climbed into bed with the betting bosses in the first place.

+1

[Danzar]

I assumed Dan was referring to the wall-to-wall spruiking of betting (sponsored by Centrebet). I found the video offensive and unappealing to watch for that reason.

Spot on. Incredibly stupid and dangerous move by the AFL.

[Maltopia]

On the other hand, I have been able to watch the Swans play for free using the app from the betting sponsor without having to sign up for either pay $25 a month for a Foxtel upgrade (not possible anyway as I am on a basic bundle provided by Telstra) nor pay for AFL membership at $5 a week, $15 a month or $90 a season. Would not have been possible without the sponsorship by the betting company.

[Danzar]

On the other hand, I have been able to watch the Swans play for free using the app from the betting sponsor without having to sign up for either pay $25 a month for a Foxtel upgrade (not possible anyway as I am on a basic bundle provided by Telstra) nor pay for AFL membership at $5 a week, $15 a month or $90 a season. Would not have been possible without the sponsorship by the betting company.
True, but is your benefit worth it to the rest who don't derive the same value; or to the 10, 11, 12+ year old kid who clicks on that video and sees it as normal? Your saving is no justification for what is plainly wrong.

[Maltopia]

I'm just saying I got a benefit out of it. I am not claiming it is right or wrong. I don't want to get into an argument about what is right or wrong, but in my view, I think it is up to parents to tell their kids about gambling. They will see ads about alcohol, violence in movies, scantily clad persons when doing innocent web searches etc.

The AFL of today, is first and foremost a business. They will talk about corporate responsibilities, sustainability, etc., but the first and foremost objective is profit.

[dimelb]

... The AFL of today, is first and foremost a business. They will talk about corporate responsibilities, sustainability, etc., but the first and foremost objective is profit.

And insofar as that's true, that's exactly the problem. Their priority should be the quality of the game: if that's right, any other considerations should fall into place.

[Triple B]

On the other hand, I have been able to watch the Swans play for free using the app....

Agree, very handy to be able to watch any game live whilst out and about. Particularly handy when you want to watch the twilight game while commuting to a night game...

[Maltopia]

And insofar as that's true, that's exactly the problem. Their priority should be the quality of the game: if that's right, any other considerations should fall into place.

They are a massive business, so they will have lots of things contributing to that overall profit goal - providing a mostly even competition, keeping the game clean of drugs and thuggery on the field (e.g., the changes to the MRP and penalties in the last decade to offset parents not wanting their kids being involved in a game with lots of biffo and head hits), growing particular markets, game day experience, media/promotion etc.

Ultimately, their board has made a decision that the financial benefits from the gambling association outweighs the loss or dissatisfaction of fans who disagree with gambling.

I have three kids who watch the footy on TV with me, and I make a point of reminding them every now and then that gambling is high risk as the odds are stacked in favour of the house. My father was a gambling addict (horses at the TAB) and that really impacted my family when I was growing up, e.g., having a debt collector (not from gambling, but from business bills not paid due to gambling) come around when my parents weren't home and telling me my parents were going to go to jail, having to move house constantly as my parents had to keep moving to get a fresh start etc. I don't morally support the AFL being so in bed with the gambling side of things at all. I just accept that it isn't going to go away and will take advantage of the betting app providing the free broadcasts.

Someone posted the availability of the free broadcasts on the OzBargain website last week, so they will have thousands of new non-betters watching the games through their app now, so I don't know if it will continue next season, though I am sure some of those from the OzBargain website might be suckered into gambling through watching the games on their gambling app!

[Melbourne_Blood]

I enjoy a punt, but the advertising we see now is way over the top. Even annoying really. If you want to punt you most likely have an app to check the odds. Speaking of which, $3 about the Demons was ridiculous overs to beat the pies, snapped that up gladly.

[dimelb]

My dad had a saying he trotted out from time to time: Never back a horse my son - it might win.

[Danzar]

I'm just saying I got a benefit out of it. I am not claiming it is right or wrong. I don't want to get into an argument about what is right or wrong, but in my view, I think it is up to parents to tell their kids about gambling. They will see ads about alcohol, violence in movies, scantily clad persons when doing innocent web searches etc.

The AFL of today, is first and foremost a business. They will talk about corporate responsibilities, sustainability, etc., but the first and foremost objective is profit.
No argument intended, and welcome to our forum Maltopia. I'm really pleased to see a new member get straight into it.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Just flew into Sydney and am keen to watch the hawks crowd game, anywhere near Bondi that would be showing it ??

[stellation]

Really feel for Crows fans- imagine losing a great game because of a push in the back?

[YvonneH]

Really feel for Crows fans- imagine losing a great game because of a push in the back?

Sarcasm at its best Stellation.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Really feel for Crows fans- imagine losing a great game because of a push in the back?

Pretty sickening to see a close game go hawthorns way, for the third week in a row, with some fairly pathetic umpiring decisions involved.

[Danzar]

Pretty sickening to see a close game go hawthorns way, for the third week in a row, with some fairly pathetic umpiring decisions involved.

My thoughts too. Even Carey and co were a bit lost for words on how to respond to the win. While they played well, the Hawks yet again were gifted a game that was not there's.

[Melbourne_Blood]

On a side note - great to go to a game of footy ( particularly for a Melbourne blood coming into state) and have a good win. But more so great to be able to have a beer with west coast supporters after and have them be gracious in defeat. That's what footy is all about. Hawthorn supporters need to take note!!!

[bloodsbigot]

Coincidence that when Kirk leaves Freo they turn to crap whereas the swans are looking a million bucks?

I think not!

[chalbilto]

Coincidence that when Kirk leaves Freo they turn to crap whereas the swans are looking a million bucks?

I think not!


If so ,then Kirky would be the recruit of the year.

[CureTheSane]

Coincidence that when Kirk leaves Freo they turn to crap whereas the swans are looking a million bucks?


Unfortunately, yes
I instantly start to worry that what Kirk is bringing to the table are not a deep rooted skill set and will dissipate as soon as he is no longer around to oversee them and guide them.
But I don;t think that either.
As you said, just a coincidence.
I dare say he would have some great stories about how poorly some aspects of the Freo training and culture hold up. Possibly the reason he jumped ship.
Bet his considering it his best career move to date :)

[YvonneH]

Instead of Eddie trying to destroy us he should have concentrated on the Giants. That can still come.
They just destroyed the Hawks. Boy are they going to be a monster in the coming years.

I will barrack for the Giants against all other teams (except us) as it would be great for NSW footy.

[Meg]

Yes the size and ease of the GWS win was frightening. It has been a very very humid and unpleasant day here in Sydney which I think was one factor as Hawthorn seemed to be physically spent by the combination of the effort spent in winning three games in a row by 3 points + the energy-sapping weather today. (Just walking around the city wore me out.) But GWS were extraordinarily good.

[chalbilto]

The giants were scarily very good. I wasn't surprised by the result as the Hawks have only got out of jail in the previous 3 matches and I thought, that in those games, it showed that they can be beaten by quick ball and foot movement with players running in waves from defense. Of course having tall forwards who can mark is also a bonus. Some of their older players are starting to look slow.

[CureTheSane]

Yeah, I've seen this in GWS. I picked them yesterday.
Can only hope the Hawks are heading the way of Brisbane after their domination :)

[snajik]

Instead of Eddie trying to destroy us he should have concentrated on the Giants. That can still come.
They just destroyed the Hawks. Boy are they going to be a monster in the coming years.

I will barrack for the Giants against all other teams (except us) as it would be great for NSW footy.

I�m finding the whole experiment quite fascinating. The Giants seem to have played their cards much more wisely than the Suns (though admittedly the Suns have been seriously cruelled by injuries). I was interested to see what would happen first, Giants success, or diminishing results due to players now starting to come off contract. The following all spent time with the Giants: Adams, Bruce, Frost, Tyson, Myles, Treloar, Phillips, Townsend, Lamb, Hampton, Boyd, O�Rourke, Jaksch, Hombsch (off the top of my head) and are now with other clubs. Some handy talent, yet the team they are fielding at the moment are delivering pretty solid results without them.

Looking forward to the first all-Sydney GF, and how daft does Adam Treloar�s decision look now? Fancy sweating over who had the best list � Richmond or Collingwood? GWS would towel a combined Richmond � Collingwood team at the moment. He could have stayed put and played finals. What a duffer!

[Zlatorog]

I have a curious question about a strange event I saw during the GWS vs Hawthorn game. I've noticed that Rhys Palmer took some sort of pill or supplement and flush it down with a drink after he kicked a goal in 3rd quarter (16:05 minute mark). What kind of supplements would they be taking during the game?

[Meg]

I have a curious question about a strange event I saw during the GWS vs Hawthorn game. I've noticed that Rhys Palmer took some sort of pill or supplement and flush it down with a drink after he kicked a goal in 3rd quarter (16:05 minute mark). What kind of supplements would they be taking during the game?

No Doz?

[dimelb]

No Doz?

LOL! But there are some games where you might be tempted.

[Meg]

LOL! But there are some games where you might be tempted.

When Serena Williams was playing badly one time at the Hopman Cup she called for a double espresso - and then went on to win.

[Meg]

H'mmm I think the demise of Hawthorn might have been greatly exaggerated. No Roughead, no Hodge, no Mitchell and ran riot in last quarter. Partly Richmond fading but also a lot of familiar signs from Hawthorn.

[RogueSwan]

Has anyone seen the Dogs Crows game? Was there alot of bad calls was the lopsided free kick count justified?

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[CureTheSane]

I was going for the dogs, and the free kicks seemed to be in their favor unfairly.
Don't know what the stats were

[RogueSwan]

I was going for the dogs, and the free kicks seemed to be in their favor unfairly.
Don't know what the stats were
28-12 in the end. it was 20 - 5 at 3/4 time from the article I read.

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[Meg]

28-12 in the end. it was 20 - 5 at 3/4 time from the article I read.

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The team second to the ball tends to give away a lot of free kicks. It doesn't mean the free kicks aren't warranted.

In Adelaide's case they would seem not to have made their defensive pressure effective enough to overcome that disadvantage. (I didn't watch the match so I am just making an assumption. However Josh Jenkins who starred for the Crows with eight goals was quoted as saying something along these lines.)

Remember the count was 21 - 10 in Hawthorn's favour in the 2012 grand final. However in that match the Swans' defensive pressure was so fanatical that the benefit outweighed the risk of the free kicks.

[CureTheSane]

I only saw the last quarter.
Some decisions seemed unfair on the crows, but taht happens.

As I've said before, more often than not, teams that end up on the wrong side of the free kick count have infringed more than the opposition.
I'd say teams like Hawthorn are trained in the subtleties of how to generate a free without seeming obvious.

Then there are players like Betts who happily pushes his opponent out of the way (clear free) most times and generally isn't pinned. There are favorites for sure.

[Meg]

I only saw the last quarter.Then there are players like Betts who happily pushes his opponent out of the way (clear free) most times and generally isn't pinned. There are favorites for sure.

That's what I'm laughing about reading all these Crows' complaints re yesterday's umpiring. Not a peep from them about the hilariously blatant double-handed push in the back of Nick Smith, not penalised, that allowed Betts to kick the winning goal in our match in Adelaide a few weeks ago. (The subsequent final Betts' goal was a junk goal when we flooded everyone into the forward line in the last 30 seconds in a roll-the-dice effort to get back the goal.)

I don't blame that umpiring non-decision for our loss - we could have been three to four goals up but for some silly errors through the course of the match. But Crows' fans could do with a good dose of objectivity.

[Meg]

Just watched last 15 minutes of the Saints v Nth Melbourne. Saints came so close to pulling off a remarkable win. Margin at end was 7 points with last goal kicked after the siren with the North player holding on to the ball watching the countdown clock before he took his kick. (H'mmm not sure about the countdown clock providing that tactical advantage.) So sad, would have loved to see St Kilda win (not to mention some self-interest for the Swans if North had lost).

[Mel_C]

Does the SCG show the 30 second count down clock on the screen when a player is having a shot? It is shown at the MCG and Etihad.

I didn't like the way the North player just stood there waiting for the clock to count down. I know it isn't against the rules but it just didn't look good. Brad Scott said that they trained for this situation.

[chalbilto]

It may not look good waiting for the clock to count down but it was very professional and smart play so I have no issues with it. If the Swans (and every other side) were in that situation I would expect that they would do the same thing. Until they have a rule change we have to put up with it.

[Meg]

Does the SCG show the 30 second count down clock on the screen when a player is having a shot? It is shown at the MCG and Etihad.

No, not at SCG - unless I was so absorbed in the play I didn't see it on the screen?

Don't think it is at the Gabba either.

[DaveyCaper]

Does anyone else find it odd that they use the clock in some venues and not others? Would think you should be doing the same thing in every venue.

On a similar topic, the AFL should really standardize the views available for goalline reviews!

[CureTheSane]

On a similar topic, the AFL should really standardize the views available for goalline reviews!

Absolutely amazing that they don't.
Makes them look armature hour

[YvonneH]

No, not at SCG - unless I was so absorbed in the play I didn't see it on the screen?

Don't think it is at the Gabba either.

I think I saw the countdown clock at the SCG on the big screen in the left hand lower corner. Not a big display like Etihad but I could be wong.

[dimelb]

Absolutely amazing that they don't.
Makes them look armature hour

Very witty!

[Mel_C]

Does anyone else find it odd that they use the clock in some venues and not others? Would think you should be doing the same thing in every venue.

On a similar topic, the AFL should really standardize the views available for goalline reviews!

I can't believe they don't have the cameras on the goal posts at every ground. As we saw last week they aren't at the Gabba and my brother said they aren't at Geelong either. It really is unprofessional.

The AFL's excuse is that there is no money in the budget for more cameras. It was reported on Sunday that it would cost up to $15,000 to install cameras at a venue and $1,000 for them to be used each round. That is peanuts when you consider the millions they make. So much for equalisation!

[neilfws]

Moving on to this week: just saw the Jonas elbow on Gaff that everyone is talking about after the Port v WC game. Jonas is going to be in a world of trouble:

AFL 2016 round 9: Tom Jonas knocks out Andrew Gaff - KO's with elbow to the head (Full) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJjnQg2_JKg)

[stellation]

Moving on to this week: just saw the Jonas elbow on Gaff that everyone is talking about after the Port v WC game. Jonas is going to be in a world of trouble:

AFL 2016 round 9: Tom Jonas knocks out Andrew Gaff - KO's with elbow to the head (Full) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJjnQg2_JKg)
That does look pretty bad, although I'm not sure he meant to actually whack him in the head- it looked like a standard "make him earn it" that was a bit sloppy.

I know that people regularly lament the lack of rough stuff in modern footy, but I feel like there's been a bit of an increase this season in that kind of "make sure to leave some bruises" mentality.

[stellation]

Watching the Giants @ Crows game from last night and it struck me that I've seen a few games this season now played at Adelaide Oval where the umpires seem genuinely intimidated by the crowd and every 50/50 call has gone the way of the home crowd.

[barry]

Watching the Giants @ Crows game from last night and it struck me that I've seen a few games this season now played at Adelaide Oval where the umpires seem genuinely intimidated by the crowd and every 50/50 call has gone the way of the home crowd.
Adelaide are so hot and cold this year. I think the giants lack of fit defenders is starting to show. I think it was a defeat the giants needed.

All this BS about the giants being a dynasty and they are taking to a bottom of the eight finish.

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[royboy42]

Carlton's continued improvement is starting to produce a lot of wraps for Bolton, and deservedly so.

Suprisingly quiet in the media though about the elephant in the room. How badly did Malthouse serve that football club? Ran the team and the admin into the grund...everything was about the culture of promoting Mick.

Most importantly, his old fashioned, out of date coaching stylejust about destroyed the playing group.

I don't think he'll be welcomed at many Carlton reunions.

[Danzar]

Carlton's continued improvement is starting to produce a lot of wraps for Bolton, and deservedly so.

Suprisingly quiet in the media though about the elephant in the room. How badly did Malthouse serve that football club? Ran the team and the admin into the grund...everything was about the culture of promoting Mick.

Most importantly, his old fashioned, out of date coaching stylejust about destroyed the playing group.

I don't think he'll be welcomed at many Carlton reunions.

Bolton has done a great job turning that team around. I always thought that Carlton's problems were much deeper than their coaching staff i.e. a major cultural problem/lack of vision/poor support stemming from their financial issues. Two wooden spoons in 05 and 06 plus a second last in 07 gave them three number 1 draft picks (Murphy, Gibbs and Kruezer) plus a host of first round picks, yet none of their three (or four if you include Barker) coaches could make that work. Perhaps I was wrong or perhaps more than just the coach has changed this time.

[Doctor J.]

Carlton's continued improvement is starting to produce a lot of wraps for Bolton, and deservedly so.

Suprisingly quiet in the media though about the elephant in the room. How badly did Malthouse serve that football club? Ran the team and the admin into the grund...everything was about the culture of promoting Mick.

Most importantly, his old fashioned, out of date coaching stylejust about destroyed the playing group.

I don't think he'll be welcomed at many Carlton reunions.

spot on RB42. Last nights AFL360 was discussing Bolton and there was a perfect opportunity to question the legacy of Malthouse, but for some reason he's immune from any serious examination by the media.

[neilfws]

I think I saw the countdown clock at the SCG on the big screen in the left hand lower corner. Not a big display like Etihad but I could be wong.

I saw it on the big screen at the North game. Like you said, lower-left and easy to miss, the numbers are not very big.

[neilfws]

Adelaide are so hot and cold this year. I think the giants lack of fit defenders is starting to show. I think it was a defeat the giants needed.

Agreed, a bit of a lesson for GWS. An attacking team that's fun to watch, but the weak defence was obvious in that game.

I'd also say anyone who loves the game must have enjoyed that Betts goal!

[neilfws]

How badly did Malthouse serve that football club?

Let's see what the charts say :)

Exhibit A: percentages in games coached by Ratten versus Malthouse.

1500

Exhibit B: wins, losses and draws 2007 (when Ratten took over) to 2015 (when Malthouse left).

1501

I think Ratten was judged unfairly on the basis of a poorer-than-expected 2012. Did Malthouse simply preside over a decline that started in 2012, or actively make it worse? We'll never know what a Ratten 2013 would have looked like.