Rnd 15 MDT Sydney V Western Bulldogs. SCG 16.35pm

[aardvark]

15321533

Not happy with umpires Stevic and Schmitt. Swans by 2. Go Swannies!

[Matt79]

I literally just saw who the umpires were as well on the AFL site and thought...'Oh no...Stevic and Schmitt!' - This means no 50/50 kicks go our way but every 50/50 kick against us will go to the Dogs.

[Untamed Snark]

Does give me a chance to make Schmitt happens jokes though

[56-14]

I literally just saw who the umpires were as well on the AFL site and thought...'Oh no...Stevic and Schmitt!' - This means no 50/50 kicks go our way but every 50/50 kick against us will go to the Dogs.

Bloody hope we win.
(Couldn't stand a bout of "umpire bashing" as an excuse if we lose!)

[Mel_C]

In a loooooong queue waiting to vote. I might get home in time for the start of the game!

[dimelb]

In a loooooong queue waiting to vote. I might get home in time for the start of the game!

Hilaire Belloc's take:

The accursed power which stands on Privilege
(And goes with Women, and Champagne and Bridge)
Broke - and Democracy resumed her reign:
(Which goes with Bridge, and Women and Champagne).

[dejavoodoo44]

Does give me a chance to make Schmitt happens jokes though
I'm sure there'll be plenty of Schmitt decisions for us to complain about.

[jono2707]

Good to see everyone's already preparing to blame the umpires if we lose.....

[neilfws]

Just arrived. Beautiful day, great conditions. Chance of dew after sunset I guess. Looks like a good crowd forming.

[mcs]

Couldnt ask for a better day for what should be a cracking game. Come on swannies!

[neilfws]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160702/886df582804a3b6476cd6984147b96ff.jpg

Have to say, good effort with the banner Dogs fans.

[dejavoodoo44]

Feeling fairly confident for this one. I think our backs match up well against their forwards. And I'm looking forward to seeing how much our younger forwards can disrupt their rebound.

[longmile]

Looking better than them but have obviously been instructed to play risky football and use the corridor

[Foreign Legion]

We have made some bloody stupid mistakes so far - hopefully this stops soon.

[mcs]

We have made some bloody stupid mistakes so far - hopefully this stops soon.

A great display of stupid football from both sides - neither seem to grasp the idea of having a forward line to kick to.

[aardvark]

Rampe cuddles the goal ump......priceless!

[Mel_C]

We really love kicking across goal against them don't we??

First half of the quarter they ran it down the ground too easily but our pressure improved towards the end. Should have made more of our opportunities though.

[dejavoodoo44]

Thought that we were slowly getting on top. Good harassment and our backline was dominating. Just need to cut down on the occasional silly turnover and convert a few more of the half chances.

[Nico]

Our forward pressure is not good enough. They are waltzing out of our forward line.

[Foreign Legion]

If Buddy had good hands he would kick 1200+ goals. He is playing a great game though.

- - - Updated - - -

Kieran Jack your goal!

[Nico]

Towers is going alright but as they said on TV he has been too unselfish and resulted in turnovers. Still a nice hand pass to Sinclair for a goal at the end. He is proving a way better option than Cunningham. Rose continues his good form.

[aardvark]

Seems we've played on Election day 4 times in the past. Each time we've won Labor have won,each time we've lost the Liberals have won. Make of this what you will.:wink:

[longmile]

Very exciting game of football! Missed this during the bye

[Scottee]

Towers is going alright but as they said on TV he has been too unselfish and resulted in turnovers. Still a nice hand pass to Sinclair for a goal at the end. He is proving a way better option than Cunningham. Rose continues his good form.
Seems to lack confidence in his own goalkicking. Have a go mate, you are better than you think.

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[barry]

Hes been reading RWO to much

[stevoswan]

Seems we've played on Election day 4 times in the past. Each time we've won Labor have won,each time we've lost the Liberals have won. Make of this what you will.:wink:

Labour win then!!!! Or we break the above trend, coz I can't see Labour winning today.:tongue:

[Snork]

How do the umpires continue to miss Isaac being absolutely mauled every time the ball goes near him. One set of rules for us and another for the sexy Bulldogs. God I hope we flog the in the second half. Dunstall again being a flog on commentary.

[dejavoodoo44]

Buddy now on 50 goals for the season. Which Swans players don't seem to do all that much. Buddy got 79 in 2014, but the most recent occurrence before that, was Barry Hall back in 2006.

[mcs]

Labour win then!!!! Or we break the above trend, coz I can't see Labour winning today.:tongue:

Couldnt care less which bunch of donkeys wins the election as long as our swans win.

A strange old game so far - if either team finds a functioning forward line setup in the second half they will win.

Come on swannies!

[dejavoodoo44]

How do the umpires continue to miss Isaac being absolutely mauled every time the ball goes near him. One set of rules for us and another for the sexy Bulldogs. God I hope we flog the in the second half. Dunstall again being a flog on commentary.

It was umpire Schmitt, who missed that. Unfortunately, he seems only capable of umpiring one side. I think he also cost us a goal when he gave a free to Minson, when it seemed that Minson just fell over. Both of them were Schmitt decisions.

[707]

I warned you about this weeks umpires, Schmitt is a shocker.

[dejavoodoo44]

Aww, Schmitty, I take it all back.

[Nico]

Towers was simply tipped off the contest. Pressure and skills have dropped off.

[Nico]

It does appear that we have run out of legs already.

[Foreign Legion]

Dunstall and Russell are absolute shockers in commentary - disgraceful.

- - - Updated - - -

Mills is better than Heeney now - I know Heeney is playing a tough position but Mills reads the ball so well.

[Nico]

Poor decision making going forward. Kennedy should have had a set shot. Instead kicks to a 2 on 1 to McVeigh, and poorly.

[tasswan]

Swans look spent compared to the Doggies, would be surprised if we won this

[mcs]

Poor decision making going forward. Kennedy should have had a set shot. Instead kicks to a 2 on 1 to McVeigh, and poorly.

Decision making has been appaling all night long. Really disappointing 3rd quarter- this match feels just like the corresponding fixture last year.

[Mel_C]

Very frustrating to watch.

Whenever the bulldogs get the ball all their players run forward whereas we seem stagnant.

How come we always get pinned holding the ball but the bulldogs can take as long as they want and dispose it incorrectly?

This is a crucial game for us so we HAVE to lift this final quarter. I want to see the pressure improve.

[troyjones2525]

Hannebery has a lot of making up to do! That was a disgrace and probably cost us any chance of winning.

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[Foreign Legion]

Our ruckmen have had NO influence at all on the game - their ruckmen have kicked 2 goals. Hurry back Tippo this game is over.

[Foreign Legion]

LOL I hope I went too early. Mills again is brilliant.

[stevoswan]

Franklin!!!

[troyjones2525]

Me too! Didn't see this coming! ???? take it home now boys!

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[stevoswan]

Keep it going now. Grind this out!!!

[troyjones2525]

Stuff like that poor kick would not be doing Benny any favors with Papley pressing in the 2's.

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[troyjones2525]

@@@@ Lloyd off! He just cost us! I can't take that @@@@!

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[WauchopeAnalyst]

Dumb coaching again. No forwards to kick to. Not Lloyd. LONGMIRE PLAN, Thanks again.

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[troyjones2525]

Absolutely no composure! There had to be someone free with the time he had!

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[Nico]

Jake Lloyd loses the game. Someone tell me he had players free going backwards. What on earth was he doing. Just a completely unnnecessary error. Just gave it back to them when we had the game in our hands.

[Jeynez]

Horrible at closing out games. Had all the momentum and we were playing to run down the clock

[barry]

Looks like a win to liberals then

[WauchopeAnalyst]

You cant kick to no forwards, none, nada. What did you want Lloyd to do.

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[Mel_C]

Crap crap crap crap crap!!!!!!!

Second game we couldn't keep possession of the ball at the end. Am so angry right now.

Our missed shots at goal cost us dearly.

Can't believe we lost.

[stevoswan]

We're @@@@@@@ing fourth......:hmmm

[longmile]

Two games lost after the siren is embarressing. No composure and poor training. You'd think they'd have learnt from the first time.
This was the easiest game of our next 3. Coughed up our good spot on the ladder

[Levii3]

Dumb coaching again. No forwards to kick to. Not Lloyd. LONGMIRE PLAN, Thanks again.

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Interesting didn't hear complain too much when we were winning we've lost four in total so far this year so keep it in perspective...

[Ludwig]

2nd game lost by the last kick of the game. We are just a losing team. No composure when it counts. Same thing like last year when the ball just bounces their way when it matters and we miss easy shots on goal.

Rohan goes missing again in the 2nd half. McGlynn useless. I knew we should have brought in Naismith instead of Nankervis.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

What about our forwards going towards to boundary line for Jake. No, came on tell me what Lloyd was supposed to do. We had about 4 forwards within 3m of each other.

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[stevoswan]

Interesting didn't hear complain too much when we were winning we've lost four in total so far this year so keep it in perspective...

Who'd complain about winning FFS? Stupid comment.

[troyjones2525]

You cant kick to no forwards, none, nada. What did you want Lloyd to do.

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Kick it sideways or backwards even! It's called modern footy! He needs to learn how to play it!

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[WauchopeAnalyst]

2nd game lost by the last kick of the game. We are just a losing team. No composure when it counts. Same thing like last year when the ball just bounces their way when it matters and we miss easy shots on goal.

Rohan goes missing again in the 2nd half. McGlynn useless. I knew we should have brought in Naismith instead of Nankervis.
Well said..

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[troyjones2525]

Two games lost after the siren is embarressing. No composure and poor training. You'd think they'd have learnt from the first time.
This was the easiest game of our next 3. Coughed up our good spot on the ladder
Exactly right! We had to win this game. I doubt we'll even finish in the top 4 now.

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[mcs]

What about our forwards going towards to boundary line for Jake. No, came on tell me what Lloyd was supposed to do. We had about 4 forwards within 3m of each other.

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Very harsh to blame lloyd when the forward line did nothing to give him an option.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

I came back from Grafton and say about 4 minutes. We created nothing in the forwards and all defending. A good set up would have won the game. A reactive, defensive, negative game plan will keep you in games but we are now losing this ones but in previous years we would win 98 out of 100. Now 2 out of 2 for losing

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[RogueSwan]

Not a nice way to lose but we didn't play good footy for long enough today, the Dogs played better for longer. What did annoy me was the Dogs celebration after Minson goaled off the 60m free, did sweet @@@@ all and carried on like be had kicked goal of the year.

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[stevoswan]

Top four spot in serious jeopardy now......dumbfounded.....Cats and Hawks to come. Brilliant!

[lwjoyner]

No excuses for LLoyd he's done that before ,at least Heath and Rampe did not do it this time ,surely he had some of the swans behind him and could have passed it to them. Who is our backline coach we do this too often. Another game thrown away in the last minute.

[Cheer_Cheer]

I thought Towers would be copping a belting here by now.. If he isn't our new Troy Luff I don't know who is..

[HeeneyIsAGun]

I've had enough. I read all of the articles about how your Dad brought in some Special Forces guy to train you up, I appreciate you try REALLY hard, and I know you get a lot of the ball.

But it just seems you dont know what to do with it under pressure. Especially when the game is on the line.

And with less than a minute to go, with ball in hand, running towards our goals, what do you do.... you back track, and with your back to our goals, kick one over your shoulder. Straight to a Bulldogs player.

And they take it from there, score a goal, win the game. Its not for the first time that same blind box kick has cost us.

I think its time to give some others a shot in the side instead. Maybe Papley, or Dawson.

[56-14]

Let's up Mitchell's new contract by another $100K. What a performance - reminds me v Richmond.
(Thank goodness for Parker & Franklin.)

[Ludwig]

Interesting that the Dogs kicked 13.5 against us and 5.13 against Geelong in their last game.

We weren't good enough today, but we had them and gave it away. The luck is not going our way this year. And we're not good enough to make our own luck.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

How about this question. With our all players defending how did the Bont and Johannison get free in back 50.

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[robamiee]

wtf how did we lose that, and how the hell did johannison get so free...
2 times this year we could ahve gone clear on top and we blew it..

the only good thing is all the other top sides are dropping games here and there...

no real favourtie this year for the flag i reckon..6 teams could win

[Flying South]

1st post and he comes out swinging. Is that you Matt80?

[barry]

We iced the clock for nearly 5 minutes. Just 20 seconds more and we would have won it.

[troyjones2525]

Lloyd and McGlynn back tothe NEAFL to stay! Bring Papley in for McGlynn move Mills up for Lloyd and it's time for Newman to come in! He's been too good for too long not to be given a chance and god knows we need some kicking skillsin the side!

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[azzzr]

i got $50 someone makes a post blaming towers next

[WauchopeAnalyst]

The difference was that Towers had options, Lloyd didnt have much.

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[Robtorq]

And what about the 50 that Hannas gave away. Game changer

[RogueSwan]

We are going to be inconsistent because we're are playing kids. We will lose close games this year because of this.

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[GongSwan]

And what about the 50 that Hannas gave away. Game changer

yep, this. If uur best make mistakes what can you expect ftom the bottom six

[Faunac8]

I've had enough. I read all of the articles about how your Dad brought in some Special Forces guy to train you up, I appreciate you try REALLY hard, and I know you get a lot of the ball.

But it just seems you dont know what to do with it under pressure. Especially when the game is on the line.
And with less than a minute to go, with ball in hand, running towards our goals, what do you do.... you back track, and with your back to our goals, kick one over your shoulder. Straight to a Bulldogs player.

And they take it from there, score a goal, win the game. Its not for the first time that same blind box kick has cost us.

I think its time to give some others a shot in the side instead. Maybe Papley, or Dawson.

You join this forum today and this is your initial post? Are you related to either of the two players you mentioned????
Jake Lloyd had 25 disposals today and was one of our top half dozen players
He is performing at a higher level this year in just about all categories and is just 22 years old . Yes he didn't make a great decision today but that's how you learn and develop.
If any players should be nervous about selection this week it would be Benny and Isaac

[troyjones2525]

Agree with this thread. He has been a decent player at times but in big games and tight contests he lets us down. Yes he's not alone there but we can't get rid of everyone...

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[ugg]

I just watched the last two minutes again. He turned back because there was nothing on ahead of him and kicking it then would have also resulted in it going straight to a Bulldogs player. He turned around then kicked over his shoulder probably hoping someone would have made their way there but to no avail

The bigger mistake was Johannisen marking it. He was standing right next to Bontempelli when he marked it then ran into space quickly. No one noticed until it was too late. That was the fatal error

[Levii3]

Who'd complain about winning FFS? Stupid comment.

I know we lost and temperature run high but maybe use your eyes to read what i was replying to before mouthing off

[dimelb]

The customers walked out of the Riser in a subdued mood tonight. How did we lose that eminently winnable game?

Not all Jake's fault by any means, or Towers' for that matter; inaccuracy had a lot to do with it. Nor were the umpires at fault, apart from the Minson/Hanneberry blue (which admittedly would have won us the game, all other things being equal). Tippo's absence really hurt us; Nankervis is an honest hardworking player and I'm pleased we have him to fall back on, but Tippett's presence would have made a different game.

Still, there were things to be pleased with. The youngsters are doing well and gaining valuable experience. I particularly liked Rose's speed and determination to have a go, Hewett did some good things, Mills continues to develop, Towers has enough skill but needs more confidence which I suspect comes with more experience and astute coaching, Heeney is so good he is double tagged (why could we not make something out of that?). Lance had a good game, but his delivery when playing up the ground is not always what it should be. McVeigh continues to work his way back to its normal high standard.

We can and will do better.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

When Jake had the ball the Bulldogs had 4 players on their defensive side of our players on the wing. Mcrae, Hunter, Wood, Adams and Suckling in the centre and we had Sinclair slowly jogging around.

Why do we have all our forwards within 20m of the ball. Were is our bail out kick receiver/target? Just someone to compete, but we don't.

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[liz]

That was the fatal error

Alternatively, the team should never have found itself in that position. The Dogs played a good game, but the Swans really should have won. The way they dominated out of the middle in the final quarter when the midfield lifted its intensity shone a light on their lack of intensity in the third quarter. And the final entry the Swans had going forward, which resulted in a lame rushed behind was poor too. They really needed to be more patient and create a genuine goal scoring opportunity.

We really missed Tippett out there today - a genuine marking option with some class. Sinclair and Toby battled away but there's a reason why Tippo warrants the contract he has. Other than Buddy, our forward line comprised mostly inexperienced, small to medium sized players and we needed a genuine tall target other than Buddy.

[aardvark]

We didn't play well enough to win. We got the result we deserved.

[Maltopia]

Very frustrating as we could have won that. Lack of effort and concentration in the final minute - no one leading for Lloyd, and no one covering/watching the space/loose player in after Bont took the mark.

[neilfws]

We didn't play well enough to win. We got the result we deserved.

Dogs were better for longer, no doubt. Our forward line structure was shocking for most of the day. Just thought Bud might lift them over the line, but defending less than a goal for 5 minutes is always a dicey business. Especially when someone inexplicably kicks backwards 25 m into the opponents 50.

Disappointing because we so nearly could have sneaked a win, but just too many bad decisions today. Think there could be a few nervous players next selection round.

[Nico]

Our set shot goal kicking was poor, whereas they converted. Probably the difference.

McGlynn is surely cooked; 7 kicks, 2 hand passes and a couple of smothers. He has lost a lot of pace. He had a chance to break clear into an open goal in the last minutes but couldn't get the wheels moving.
Rohan; he continues to disappoint. 6 kicks, 1 hand ball, 2 tackles. Howler of a game. He looked lethargic. Is he playing to be drafted? The Geelong rumour is around. Very poor effort.
Heeney; 19yo, but he had 3 kicks and 1 handball. Certainly not performing as well as Rose.
Rose and Hewett Impressed again in patches but need consistency. That's the inexperience factor. Hewett holds onto the footy for a second option and gets caught. Frustrating that he doesn't take the first option. Too much finessing.
LLoyd; plenty has been said. My problem with him is that when he has the footy he is indecisive. Takes a mark and holds on to it for a month, gets a free and does the same when the situations cries out for moving it on quickly. Gets plenty of the pill but squanders it.
Mills is a star and needs to move into the midfield.
The defence played a great game.
Franklin was super. Just a couple of vital misses.

[Ludwig]

I don't understand blaming Lloyd for what happened during that last minute of play when there were so many other reasons for the loss. There were plenty of mistakes made by lots of players during the game and we probably should have put the game away during the last 10 minutes when we were dominant. I thought we let them break too many tackles when we should have stopped them in their tracks.

Sinclair and Nanka took 1 mark between them for the game against a team that's not particularly tall. I thought Roughead had a big influence and beat them both, including taking 4 important marks. Time to bring Naismith in for one of them, probably Nanka.

McGlynn tries hard, but I think his career looks to be coming to a close. Let's bring Papley in next week in his place.

I know Heeney is the golden child, but he's been in a serious form slump and a short stint in the reserves wouldn't hurt. He's not doing much in the seniors anyway. We might even try Abe Davis to give us a bit more height and bulk up forward.

Aliir had a super game in the reserves and should come into the senior side. We can move Mills into the midfield. Mills has been great, but shouldn't have to find himself matched up against a powerful player like Stringer. That cost us too.

[Nico]

Dogs were better for longer, no doubt. Our forward line structure was shocking for most of the day. Just thought Bud might lift them over the line, but defending less than a goal for 5 minutes is always a dicey business. Especially when someone inexplicably kicks backwards 25 m into the opponents 50.

Disappointing because we so nearly could have sneaked a win, but just too many bad decisions today. Think there could be a few nervous players next selection round.

They beat us in 2 bursts. The 2nd quarter with 3 consecutive goals and 3rd quarter with a run of 7. You have to be able to stop a run on like those. The rest of the game we controlled.

[barry]

I thought towers played well. He was involved in the 3 goals that got us back in the lead. Made a few poor decisions but that comes from being in and out of the team.

Mcveigh wasnt bad but he is very poor one on one. When the ball goes to him one out i just pray he breaks even.

Agree on mcglynn. I think papley has moved past him.

We desperately need to be less buddy focused.

[Mug Punter]

Our set shot goal kicking was poor, whereas they converted. Probably the difference.

McGlynn is surely cooked; 7 kicks, 2 hand passes and a couple of smothers. He has lost a lot of pace. He had a chance to break clear into an open goal in the last minutes but couldn't get the wheels moving.
Rohan; he continues to disappoint. 6 kicks, 1 hand ball, 2 tackles. Howler of a game. He looked lethargic. Is he playing to be drafted? The Geelong rumour is around. Very poor effort.
Heeney; 19yo, but he had 3 kicks and 1 handball. Certainly not performing as well as Rose.
Rose and Hewett Impressed again in patches but need consistency. That's the inexperience factor. Hewett holds onto the footy for a second option and gets caught. Frustrating that he doesn't take the first option. Too much finessing.
LLoyd; plenty has been said. My problem with him is that when he has the footy he is indecisive. Takes a mark and holds on to it for a month, gets a free and does the same when the situations cries out for moving it on quickly. Gets plenty of the pill but squanders it.
Mills is a star and needs to move into the midfield.
The defence played a great game.
Franklin was super. Just a couple of vital misses.

Agree with most of these comments and tonight confirms to me that whilst we will be about in September I do not think we will be in the final two weeks of the finals. Next year is our final chance before GWS dominate this comp for 5-10 years. And when that happens the AFL will be a joke of a comp for that period given their advantages and list strengths.

Rohan did bugger all tonight as did McGlynn and Heeney needs a kick up the arse and spell in the twos.

Reid, Ted and Papley to come in for the finals team for me.

[Bexl]

Watching the last quarter again i think the moment that cost us was with about 6 1/2 minutes to go. McVeigh burst through the middle and passed to 3 Sydney players on there own 25 m out straight in front. Towers dropped the mark ( ducked head .... not sure). Parker was right behind him and also could have taken the mark with better talk. Massive golden chance to go 1 and a bit goals up.

[Mel_C]

The 50 metre penalty by Hanners cost us. There was not one bulldogs player where he kicked it . Surely he didn't think it was a swans free? Don't know why he seemed surprised when he was penalised.

[Meg]

Nor were the umpires at fault, apart from the Minson/Hanneberry blue (which admittedly would have won us the game, all other things being equal).

What did you mean by this comment Don? It certainly was a pivotal moment in the match. It seemed like a very bad mistake by Hannebery, but he was quite distraught as though he had misunderstood whose free kick it was.

[cheersquadsteve]

towers must never play again
several times he had opertunities to take the game on and he decided to pass the ball, not kick the goal
im sick of him showing glimpses of potential, that he could be a very good player, he flashes into games and then totally underwhelms when the heat is on

[Bexl]

You know what. We are a young team with 6 players playing there first game this year and a pile of other young and inexperienced players who are having a real go. We still have a chance to win the flag this year. So we lost today in a close one, we lost a few in 2012 too.
Go swannies.

[dimelb]

What did you mean by this comment Don? It certainly was a pivotal moment in the match. It seemed like a very bad mistake by Hannebery, but he was quite distraught as though he had misunderstood whose free kick it was.

That's what I was thinking - a genuine mistake on his part when he is a law-abiding player as a rule. I think the commentary looked at the possibility of high contact and perhaps that contributed to Hannebery's confusion.

[kilroy]

The thing that stood out for me is how slow we are. Also hold possession suck swans players into the contest win the ball and then run and spread and goal.

Also I am sick and tired of watching a code that has the worst officiating of any code in the world, consistently week in week out fans need to focus on umpiring and they have to second guess if the umpires will be for them or against them. What other code does this? I am honestly done, i have been thinking about it all night but the only reason i watch AFL is because of the swans, I do what they call hate watching.

[kilroy]

That's what I was thinking - a genuine mistake on his part when he is a law-abiding player as a rule. I think the commentary looked at the possibility of high contact and perhaps that contributed to Hannebery's confusion.

A 50 metre penalty because a player assumed wrong or didnt hear the call. 50 metre penalty is the most pathetic rule i have ever seen in any code, a massive penalty that turns matches and 9/10 never fits the crime. Stupid irrelevant crap like "Not throwing the ball back correctly" and it could cost you the game while others things like players flopping all over the place is ignored.

[kilroy]

Oh and one more thing, trade Mitchell at the end of the year. IF he thinks he is going to get a buddy type wage playing as a slow 1980s midfielder, then he can go to Carlton.

[barry]

Blaming umpires for a loss is pathetic. We blew it. Its just as unfair to blame buddy for not handpassing over to mcglynn in the goalsquare as it is lloyd.

[mcs]

What did you mean by this comment Don? It certainly was a pivotal moment in the match. It seemed like a very bad mistake by Hannebery, but he was quite distraught as though he had misunderstood whose free kick it was.

From my view at the ground (and i have no interest in watching the replay) it appeared to take an enternity for the umpire to actually signal which way the free went and that hanners may have kicked it before the umpire made it clear who the free had been given to.

It was a pivotal call and probably a harsh one - hanners was very distraught after it.

- - - Updated - - -


A 50 metre penalty because a player assumed wrong or didnt hear the call. 50 metre penalty is the most pathetic rule i have ever seen in any code, a massive penalty that turns matches and 9/10 never fits the crime. Stupid irrelevant crap like "Not throwing the ball back correctly" and it could cost you the game while others things like players flopping all over the place is ignored.

Add to that the blight on the game that is dropping the ball/allowed incorrect disposal.

[mcs]

Watching the last quarter again i think the moment that cost us was with about 6 1/2 minutes to go. McVeigh burst through the middle and passed to 3 Sydney players on there own 25 m out straight in front. Towers dropped the mark ( ducked head .... not sure). Parker was right behind him and also could have taken the mark with better talk. Massive golden chance to go 1 and a bit goals up.

That was a huge moment in the game - i said to my mate that would cost us. I had a bad feeling all game it would end up like the 2015 game against them :(

There are plenty of twists and turns still to come but i think we will rue our chokes against the dogs and tigers come rd 23, unless we can pull off a miracle and win at @@@@dinia park next friday.

[annew]

Why was Brandon Jack re-signed if he is not good enough to be played

[707]

Why was Brandon Jack re-signed if he is not good enough to be played
Unfortunately Kardinia Park next week is not the place to be making wholesale changes but faithful servant or not McGlynn must be dropped for Papley and wonder kid or not Heeney has to be dropped for someone else, maybe BJ?

You can't carry players getting so little of the ball. Rohan stays only because of his extreme pace but he also needs to find more of the ball. Maybe just leave him forward the whole match?

We are entering dangerous territory ladder and draw wise. Things could be worse, we could be Wretchmond supporters!

[longmile]

We just had to win that game last night to have a chance at the top 4. We need a mircle now. And to lose like that hurt. Just cant seem to win the close ones at the moment. McGlynn has to go and Heeney has looked lost since Rohan and James has come in with the forward role and pushed him further up the ground.

[kilroy]

TBH I dont think there are any clear cut flag favourites. Teams this season are fluctuating from being everyones flag favourites one week to then losing and being completely written off. Look at the hawks, they are first but haven't really set the AFL on fire this year.

And we could be sitting 7th or 8th in a few weeks if we dont win.

Who knows, could be the first time a team in the bottom 4 of the 8 win the flag.

Not really enjoying this season, lot of unnecessary stress.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Is it fair to state that our onfield leadership is very fragile. Great leadership against Hawks and Kangas but struggled to put them away, but terrible against Tigers and Bulldogs. I dont want to hear about umpires, free kicks, bounces, kick straight etc.

Lost to both because onfield leadership or coaching. Griffith was left on the wing and the bounce helped them and want to Riewoldt, but it could have gone straight to Griffith and beaten us any way.

Against the Bulldogs we had 7 or 8 players around the ball, 6 or 7 within 15 metres of the goals and massive holes everywhere else.

Heeney was centred on the 50m arc and no one with 25m. A real footy player, Daniel has the ball and keeps moving looking for a target, not Swans bombing kick, and executes perfectly. Only Heeney reacted to the Bont.

Bont has the ball, where is the leadership, nothing, plenty standing around, but Johannison starts moving towards 40m right in front and only Jones and Towers react, too late.

So Heeney, Jones and Towers are our leaders because our senior players in the last 2 minutes gave us little.

We are a defensive team and cant finish the job.

Buddy is the only thing from 1-6 team to a 6-12 without him.

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[kilroy]

Blaming umpires for a loss is pathetic. We blew it. Its just as unfair to blame buddy for not handpassing over to mcglynn in the goalsquare as it is lloyd.

I am really sick to death of this attitude, umpires have made so many terrible decisions this year and a game like AFL 1 terrible umpiring decision swings the whole game. 1 @@@@ umpires call can swing momentum in a flash. I have never experienced this in any code i have followed.

This notion of not blaming umpires by AFL fans is the EXACT reason why umpiring in this code sucks Barry.

I'll stop blaming umpires the minute you agree ANZ is a @@@@hole.

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Is it fair to state that our onfield leadership is very fragile. Great leadership against Hawks and Kangas but struggled to put them away, but terrible against Tigers and Bulldogs. I dont want to hear about umpires, free kicks, bounces, kick straight etc.

Lost to both because onfield leadership or coaching. Griffith was left on the wing and the bounce helped them and want to Riewoldt, but it could have gone straight to Griffith and beaten us any way.

Against the Bulldogs we had 7 or 8 players around the ball, 6 or 7 within 15 metres of the goals and massive holes everywhere else.

Heeney was centred on the 50m arc and no one with 25m. A real footy player, Daniel has the ball and keeps moving looking for a target, not Swans bombing kick, and executes perfectly. Only Heeney reacted to the Bont.

Bont has the ball, where is the leadership, nothing, plenty standing around, but Johannison starts moving towards 40m right in front and only Jones and Towers react, too late.

So Heeney, Jones and Towers are our leaders because our senior players in the last 2 minutes gave us little.

We are a defensive team and cant finish the job.

Buddy is the only thing from 1-6 team to a 6-12 without him.

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Rubbish post mate, our leaderships fine. We were just beaten by a better and more hngry to the contest side.

And yes umpires play a massive factor, deal with it buddy. You follow a code where umpires @@@@ up in every single game, every single one and you arrogantly dismiss anyone who dares calls this out, who the hell gave you this entitlement!?

[Swanny40519]

A really disappointing loss and a great chance to be clear on top blown out of the water.

I thought Horse's tactics in the third quarter were strange - we had 2 extra in defence to try and stop their run (which didn't work) and when we got the ball forward there was no one there.

McGlynn is gone and Papley needs to get back. Heeney - is he injured. His form is poor and trying to take the big mark all the time does not work.

Bring in Newman, Naismith, Papley and drop McGlynn, Heeney and Nankervis.

[ugg]

From my view at the ground (and i have no interest in watching the replay) it appeared to take an enternity for the umpire to actually signal which way the free went and that hanners may have kicked it before the umpire made it clear who the free had been given to.

It was a pivotal call and probably a harsh one - hanners was very distraught after it.

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Add to that the blight on the game that is dropping the ball/allowed incorrect disposal.

I've watched it a few times again (4:10 on the highlights package) and I still can't work out exactly what Hanners was thinking. The umpire clearly signalled which way the free kick was going. Hanners had clear sight of the umpire. He actually kicked the ball to the umpire as there was no Bulldog or Swan in the vicinity. Then he begins pointing towards our goals and pleading his case. Did he think it was our free?

It wasn't a harsh fifty, it was correctly adjudicated.

[kilroy]

From my view at the ground (and i have no interest in watching the replay) it appeared to take an enternity for the umpire to actually signal which way the free went and that hanners may have kicked it before the umpire made it clear who the free had been given to.

It was a pivotal call and probably a harsh one - hanners was very distraught after it.

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Add to that the blight on the game that is dropping the ball/allowed incorrect disposal.

Yeah the game is confused, the umps are confused but we have supporters who tell us we should ignore these important factors.

[kilroy]

I've watched it a few times again (4:10 on the highlights package) and I still can't work out exactly what Hanners was thinking. The umpire clearly signalled which way the free kick was going. Hanners had clear sight of the umpire. He actually kicked the ball to the umpire as there was no Bulldog or Swan in the vicinity. Then he begins pointing towards our goals and pleading his case. Did he think it was our free?

It wasn't a harsh fifty, it was correctly adjudicated.

What was the free for to begin with again? I recall it was really soft. Hanners did think it was our free.

The umpire could have easily ignored it but in this code nothing kicks an umpires autism into gear as much as when a player does a minor infraction like this, gives them the chance to hold up their arm and run like an idiot backwards with a grin and show everyone who is boss.

[Ludwig]

In our previous successful era of a decade ago we could feel assured that we would come out winners in these sorts of games. But we are really a team in transition that many of us thought we were before the season started and are still working on getting the team balance right. I've been impressed all year by the resilience of the Bulldogs and still haven't worked out how they do it, but they keep on coming and they are relentless. Geelong were lucky that they got them before the bye and they were spent and couldn't kick straight. In this game they kicked those opportunistic goals through the big posts, while we missed a number of sitters.

Here are a few random observations:


We took the lead with around 11 minutes on the clock and only lost it in the final seconds. Each team missed a few good opportunities, but we missed more.
That missed mark by Towers at a key moment was not a sitter, but he should have taken it. He's only played 23 senior games, so is still inexperienced at senior level despite his age. He's come back from his stint in the reserves a much improved player, but we shouldn't expect a finished product.
With Tippett out we don't have any experience key forwards other than Buddy. We can't expect to have enough scoring options with a forward line consisting of Heeney, Hewett, Rose and Towers. It was a bad time for Reid to re-injure his calf again, just when we needed another tall forward. I think we have to try something, even if it means bringing in Abe Davis or Xav Richards as another tall forward option.
Jake Stringer kicked 2 goals while matched up on Mills. This is a mismatch that just shouldn't happen when other options are available, and they were at the time. Our defenders of good, but the mix isn't right to cover a side with several tall options or for rebounding quickly out of defence. We should seriously consider bringing in Aliir or Davis for tall coverage (I prefer Aliir v. Geelong) and Newman to provide more rebound from defence. I'd like to see Mills moved into the midfield.
The compliment of players were had out on the field last night will probably not be good enough to beat Geelong a their home ground with us coming off a tiring game and a six day break. They are a very tall side and we need to try something a bit different.
The Sinclair-Nankervis ruck duo doesn't offer enough. Naismith has to come in for one of them. Whatever the risk is, and I'm not sure what Longmire is afraid of, we need to take it.




Why was Brandon Jack re-signed if he is not good enough to be playedFor the same reason that Tom Derickx was re-signed.

[kilroy]

The reality is, without tippett we are going to struggle.

at one stage last night the dogs had a massive amount of the ball. Sinclair and nanners isnt going to cut it.

We might as well concede the hit out and just set up to shark the tap and win the clearances. Has any coach ever decided to not even play a ruckman...haha because playing two ineffectual ones like we are atm is like playing with 2 players less, useless and its not like these two are actually doing anything up forward.

[kilroy]

I've been impressed all year by the resilience of the Bulldogs and still haven't worked out how they do it, but they keep on coming and they are relentless. Geelong were lucky that they got them before the bye and they were spent and couldn't kick straight.


Dogs have fast little players. How many times did you see them burn our players last night and spread well? I saw a few swan players be left flat footed from the dogs pace. They havent got a lot of mid to tall players who slow them down, they remind me of when Carlton used to win flags using midgets who ran into space all the time.

[Simo]

No one has questioned mcveighs decision to kick long to a out numbered contest, with one minute to go, two short kicks out of defence would have done. We always have a short on to the side of the square, not sure that decision was correct. That's where we miss sammy Reid, the only swan that is a natural mark.
That's what cost us in the end.
Anyhow, beat the cats down there and we will all be smiling again.

[Ludwig]

I am really sick to death of this attitude, umpires have made so many terrible decisions this year and a game like AFL 1 terrible umpiring decision swings the whole game. 1 @@@@ umpires call can swing momentum in a flash. I have never experienced this in any code i have followed.

Everyone is aware that umpires make mistakes and sometimes those mistakes are game changers. But what's the point of blaming the umpires, unless you're intimating that the umpires are making biased decisions. Players make mistakes. AFL footy is a fast game that's hard to play and hard to umpire as well. I think that's what we can take from the number of contentious umpiring decisions. There are so many difficult calls to make during any given game that it's amazing how few they get wrong.

I get just as frustrated by the poor decisions, especially when they go against the Swans, but we have to accept that it's just part of the game and hope that it evens out for both sides most of the time. It's hard to know what the solution is, because I'm sure the umpires are doing their best.

[RogueSwan]

You know what. We are a young team with 6 players playing there first game this year and a pile of other young and inexperienced players who are having a real go. We still have a chance to win the flag this year. So we lost today in a close one, we lost a few in 2012 too.
Go swannies.
Nicely put, I never thought we'd be a chance this year, I had it down as an experience building year.
But I also realise you need to take every chance you can to get to a GF, and it is an exciting possibility for this year.

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[111431]

Fully agree - hanners was just plain dumb and still kept whinging after goal kicked - undisciplined act from a leader - kirky should have run out and given him the nick Davis talk

[56-14]

Everyone is aware that umpires make mistakes and sometimes those mistakes are game changers. But what's the point of blaming the umpires, unless you're intimating that the umpires are making biased decisions. Players make mistakes. AFL footy is a fast game that's hard to play and hard to umpire as well. I think that's what we can take from the number of contentious umpiring decisions. There are so many difficult calls to make during any given game that it's amazing how few they get wrong.

I get just as frustrated by the poor decisions, especially when they go against the Swans, but we have to accept that it's just part of the game and hope that it evens out for both sides most of the time. It's hard to know what the solution is, because I'm sure the umpires are doing their best.

Fully agree - great post - my thoughts exactly.

[stellation]

What was the free for to begin with again? I recall it was really soft. Hanners did think it was our free.

I believe it was for a hold of the arm in the marking contest before the ball was spoiled and Dan ended up with it- I think it was a reasonable call to make.
1534
I agree with ugg, it was the correct decision- Dan appears to be looking at the umpire when he signals it as a Bulldogs free, and he seems to be kicking it to the umpire. I assume it was just a brain snap, it sucks but it was a fair decision.

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If Isaac Heeney wasn't Isaac Heeney I wonder if he'd be having a run around in the NEAFL for a couple of weeks.

[Doctor]

The only two that really stood out to me were the free to Bontempelli in the 2nd which was a high contact call that barely reached his chest and the non-call for Stringer's push in the back in the goal square. I think the issue is that calls like that, which are so obvious, lead to goals. There are so many contests around the ground all through a game where 50/50 decisions could go one way or the other. Having said that, Gaz clearly chopped the arms of one of their guys in the forward 50 in the 4th and a free wasn't paid.

[Scottee]

The only two that really stood out to me were the free to Bontempelli in the 2nd which was a high contact call that barely reached his chest and the non-call for Stringer's push in the back in the goal square. I think the issue is that calls like that, which are so obvious, lead to goals. There are so many contests around the ground all through a game where 50/50 decisions could go one way or the other. Having said that, Gaz clearly chopped the arms of one of their guys in the forward 50 in the 4th and a free wasn't paid.

I am intrigued about the OOB decision when Sinclair appeared to take a single grab inside the line before crossing it. Can't tell from the replay. Did anyone at the ground see it because I thought that actually changed the trend at the time?

Not that I want to blame umpires because thought there was some real mental weakness out there on our behalf.

[Daisi]

Last night was unbelievable. I was sitting in the Trumper stand. I knew there was 1 minute 40 seconds to go because of a text message. The players must have known too...

Why oh why didn't they just shut it down?

Soooo frustrating...people around me were throwing things on the ground in disgust...walking away in a huff, screaming obscenities..( I contributed a few of those too) truly a heartbreaking loss...

[WauchopeAnalyst]

I am really sick to death of this attitude, umpires have made so many terrible decisions this year and a game like AFL 1 terrible umpiring decision swings the whole game. 1 @@@@ umpires call can swing momentum in a flash. I have never experienced this in any code i have followed.

This notion of not blaming umpires by AFL fans is the EXACT reason why umpiring in this code sucks Barry.

I'll stop blaming umpires the minute you agree ANZ is a @@@@hole.

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Rubbish post mate, our leaderships fine. We were just beaten by a better and more hngry to the contest side.

And yes umpires play a massive factor, deal with it buddy. You follow a code where umpires @@@@ up in every single game, every single one and you arrogantly dismiss anyone who dares calls this out, who the hell gave you this entitlement!?
Thanks Kilroy. Very easy to see...

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[veramex]

Mcglynn and Heeney both struggling to score at the moment. Heeney probably the better with defensive pressure so maybe he keeps his position. Papley to come in for mcglynn or rose.

towers frustrated me. In the forward 50, he just doesn't seem to have any confidence, almost second guessing himself every time he got within scoring distance, and with the pressure in the game, that indecisiveness cost us.

If we had made a few of those behinds in the first quarter, it would have likely been a different result. We are still 10-4 with good percentage. Just need to take care of either Hawks or cats to have a top 4 chance. Keep the faith.

[troyjones2525]

towers must never play again
several times he had opertunities to take the game on and he decided to pass the ball, not kick the goal
im sick of him showing glimpses of potential, that he could be a very good player, he flashes into games and then totally underwhelms when the heat is on
While Towers made mistakes he definitely wasn't our worst. Perhaps instead of dropping him every time he has a quietish game they should show some faith and give him another go? How else can he gain the confidence and belief in himself if he's always one mistake away from 2's? Most of the errors he made was trying to be too unselfish and pass off to the more 'senior' players. If the coaches do the right thing by him and give him a real chance then he'll think he belongs more and take the responsibility himself more often.

There is talent there no doubt. He just needs to be shown the faith from the coaches to unleash it consistently.

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[troyjones2525]

I've watched it a few times again (4:10 on the highlights package) and I still can't work out exactly what Hanners was thinking. The umpire clearly signalled which way the free kick was going. Hanners had clear sight of the umpire. He actually kicked the ball to the umpire as there was no Bulldog or Swan in the vicinity. Then he begins pointing towards our goals and pleading his case. Did he think it was our free?

It wasn't a harsh fifty, it was correctly adjudicated.
Correct. It was 100% the right decision from the umpire to award a 50 and plain stupidity or complete lack of skills by Hannebery (you decide) to dispose of the ball the way he did!

Do you think we'd all be screaming bloody murder if it was our free and they returned the ball like that and no 50 was paid?

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[Ratna]

A tough loss to handle but one that puts the Swans season into perspective.

The team on the field are not winning close games. For whatever reason as a team they don't have the composure to make the right decisions at the end of tight games, and this potentially includes coaching and tactics as well as playing group. Blaming individual players or umpiring decisions for close loses like this is a cop out for not being composed enough as a group in tight games.

I have heard various commentators say throughout the year they believe the Swans best footy is as good if not better than any other teams. I think that this is the case but I am not sure if this team has the composure to match some of the other sides in the pressure of finals footy. Hopefully between now and finals the coaches/team can instil the confidence and surety in the group to be better in high pressure situations like these. In a season where a group of teams are extremely close it will be the team that handles the pressure in the finals the best that is likely to win and up till now that unfortunately has not been the Swans.

Tactically the swans are also putting pressure on themselves in these close games. When the swans lead late in a game and move to a defensive mindset to protect lead, the defensive set up is too extreme and puts unnecessary pressure on the group. I agree there are times where a lead needs to be protected and putting numbers back is a way of achieving this, however, to not have a player positioned for a bail out kick down the line gives little chance of moving the contest out of defence. No matter how many numbers are inside the 50 if the ball spends enough time there the opposition will score. I am not sure if this is coaching or players but surely there needs to be someone down the line outside the 50 to spoil the ball over and move the contest away from defence.

Back to perspective, I think most of us at the start of the year would have taken the current position especially given the level of inexperience in the squad that has been played. Through the first half of the year expectations have been raised and rightly so, but it pays to remember that this is a developing squad with a few brilliant players, several young players showing promise, a few elite experienced ball winners in the midfield and an underrated back line. I still like to think that if everything goes our way in the next few months in an even season a premiership is not impossible. If not the season is at least meeting, if not exceeding pre-season expectations and the developing group are getting some great experience.

[aardvark]

While Towers made mistakes he definitely wasn't our worst. Perhaps instead of dropping him every time he has a quietish game they should show some faith and give him another go. How else can he gain the confidence?

Towers is like Jesse White, he has athletic ability but no football brain. If he doesn't "get it" by now it's not likely to happen anytime soon.

[Mug Punter]

A tough loss to handle but one that puts the Swans season into perspective.

The team on the field are not winning close games. For whatever reason as a team they don't have the composure to make the right decisions at the end of tight games, and this potentially includes coaching and tactics as well as playing group. Blaming individual players or umpiring decisions for close loses like this is a cop out for not being composed enough as a group in tight games.

I have heard various commentators say throughout the year they believe the Swans best footy is as good if not better than any other teams. I think that this is the case but I am not sure if this team has the composure to match some of the other sides in the pressure of finals footy. Hopefully between now and finals the coaches/team can instil the confidence and surety in the group to be better in high pressure situations like these. In a season where a group of teams are extremely close it will be the team that handles the pressure in the finals the best that is likely to win and up till now that unfortunately has not been the Swans.

Tactically the swans are also putting pressure on themselves in these close games. When the swans lead late in a game and move to a defensive mindset to protect lead, the defensive set up is too extreme and puts unnecessary pressure on the group. I agree there are times where a lead needs to be protected and putting numbers back is a way of achieving this, however, to not have a player positioned for a bail out kick down the line gives little chance of moving the contest out of defence. No matter how many numbers are inside the 50 if the ball spends enough time there the opposition will score. I am not sure if this is coaching or players but surely there needs to be someone down the line outside the 50 to spoil the ball over and move the contest away from defence.

Back to perspective, I think most of us at the start of the year would have taken the current position especially given the level of inexperience in the squad that has been played. Through the first half of the year expectations have been raised and rightly so, but it pays to remember that this is a developing squad with a few brilliant players, several young players showing promise, a few elite experienced ball winners in the midfield and an underrated back line. I still like to think that if everything goes our way in the next few months in an even season a premiership is not impossible. If not the season is at least meeting, if not exceeding pre-season expectations and the developing group are getting some great experience.

I agree with just about all of this post, a really well balanced analysis of our season to date.

Our season and our destiny is truly in our own hands but the next two games are critical - win both and we'll be considered flag favourites again, 1-1 would keep us thereabouts but if we lose both then I feel we can kiss top 4 and a flag goodbye.

Towers did some good things and certainly was not our worst but clearly he lacks self confidence and the constant dropping and recalls can't help. If I was Horse I'd pull him aside and tell him that provided his effort is up there he will be in the side for the next six weeks regardless of results. Give him an extended run to prove his worth - it's fair to him and also it will maximise any trade value should we seek to cut him or should he seek greener pastures.

The positives to date in our season vastly outweigh the negatives but I fear we will rue two losses on the bell. That's footy but top teams tend to win those games.

Geelong is massive for us

[dimelb]

Correct. It was 100% the right decision from the umpire to award a 50 and plain stupidity or complete lack of skills by Hannebery (you decide) to dispose of the ball the way he did!

Do you think we'd all be screaming bloody murder if it was our free and they returned the ball like that and no 50 was paid?

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I've now watched it a few times - had to go to the Doggies' website! - and I agree with troyjones, ugg and stellation. Amazing what you pick up on a second and third viewing, the game is that fast. I now have no idea why Hanners kicked towards the ump, other than his natural tendency is to do something rather than not do something; either way I hope he learns something ...

[kilroy]

Everyone is aware that umpires make mistakes and sometimes those mistakes are game changers. But what's the point of blaming the umpires, unless you're intimating that the umpires are making biased decisions. Players make mistakes. AFL footy is a fast game that's hard to play and hard to umpire as well. I think that's what we can take from the number of contentious umpiring decisions. There are so many difficult calls to make during any given game that it's amazing how few they get wrong.

I get just as frustrated by the poor decisions, especially when they go against the Swans, but we have to accept that it's just part of the game and hope that it evens out for both sides most of the time. It's hard to know what the solution is, because I'm sure the umpires are doing their best.

Really, like a blatant push in the back in the goal square against Mills which was in plane view of everyone? Or the non tap to bontempellis(?) chest? That's what, 2 goals from TERRIBLE decisions plus a stupid 50 giving the dogs 3 goals from umpire assist.

But hey lets not blame umpires because we are good little footy supporters who clap behinds and let out a yay when we scored..yay go team!

Seriously.

IMHO just dont pay any of them and just pay the very obvious, ignore all these crappy technical frees and dont reward a team with momentum and goals when they dont deserve it for a stupid thing like "not throwing the ball back correctly" or over stepping the mark.

"You placed your pinky on his shoulder free kick"

"Your boot accidental went over the mark..thats 50!"


The penalty does not fit the crime at all. If anything it should be 20 nor 50.

I am just fed up with the umpiring this season, its been as terrible as I remember and now we have a 4th and they still get it wrong. This cannot continue to happen and it cannot be accepted as part of the game, thats what the AFL want the fans to think so they can cover up the plethora of stuff ups.

[ScottH]

What did you mean by this comment Don? It certainly was a pivotal moment in the match. It seemed like a very bad mistake by Hannebery, but he was quite distraught as though he had misunderstood whose free kick it was.

The key is to confirm with the ump who's kick it is, and then ensure it goes straight back. preferably by hand in most cases.
He will learn from that, as would Mitchell in the 2012 GF.

These silly things an hurt.

[Ludwig]

Really, like a blatant push in the back in the goal square against Mills which was in plane view of everyone? Or the non tap to bontempellis(?) chest? That's what, 2 goals from TERRIBLE decisions plus a stupid 50 giving the dogs 3 goals from umpire assist.

But hey lets not blame umpires because we are good little footy supporters who clap behinds and let out a yay when we scored..yay go team!

Seriously.

IMHO just dont pay any of them and just pay the very obvious, ignore all these crappy technical frees and dont reward a team with momentum and goals when they dont deserve it for a stupid thing like "not throwing the ball back correctly" or over stepping the mark.

"You placed your pinky on his shoulder free kick"

"Your boot accidental went over the mark..thats 50!"


The penalty does not fit the crime at all. If anything it should be 20 nor 50.T

I am just fed up with the umpiring this season, its been as terrible as I remember and now we have a 4th and they still get it wrong. This cannot continue to happen and it cannot be accepted as part of the game, thats what the AFL want the fans to think so they can cover up the plethora of stuff ups. I agree that the 2 calls you pointed out were probably wrong, but were close, and you can understand how in real time an umpire can make a mistake. There were others that went our way, such as Buddy having Morris in a headlock then a penalty called on Morris for holding and the then there was the handball called a throw that directly led to a Swans' goal. You just have to hope those questionable calls even out in the end.

If you think the penalty doesn't fit the crime, you're not the only one. There are always debates about what the rules should be. Perhaps you should write to the AFL Rules Committee.

I think the AFL want the best umpiring possible. Most of the umpires have been around for a while and are quite experienced. It takes a fair bit of time at lower levels just to get a chance at AFL level. So what's wrong? Are the AFL just choosing the wrong people to umpire? Is the training program not up to standard? Is it a problem that starts at junior level? I don't know if you watch the weekly Whistleblowers videocast on the AFL website. Some of the more controversial call are discussed by with umpire boss Wayne Campbell. I find it very instructive.

You seem to be suggesting that the current lot of umpires be sacked and replaced by another group. Do you have any idea where these new and better umpires will come from?

[barry]

Really, like a blatant push in the back in the goal square against Mills which was in plane view of everyone?

Ove watched that again, and it's 50/50 at best. The goal was going through even if he didnt mark it, so the dogs deserved a goal and swans deserved to conceed one.

The umps can only call what they see. Even if it was a push the ump may have been obscured. Happens in all sports.

You cant blame the umps for the loss.and its pathetic to try

[ScottH]

Ove watched that again, and it's 50/50 at best. The goal was going through even if he didnt mark it, so the dogs deserved a goal and swans deserved to conceed one.

The umps can only call what they see. Even if it was a push the ump may have been obscured. Happens in all sports.

You cant blame the umps for the loss.and its pathetic to try

The push was side on/back in replay. So technically not in the back. I still think they should have paid that one.

[Mel_C]

We were missing someone yesterday: A. Stretcher!

[Meg]

We were missing someone yesterday: A. Stretcher!

Yes, if he had played a Swans' win would have been a lay down misere!

[mcs]

I've watched it a few times again (4:10 on the highlights package) and I still can't work out exactly what Hanners was thinking. The umpire clearly signalled which way the free kick was going. Hanners had clear sight of the umpire. He actually kicked the ball to the umpire as there was no Bulldog or Swan in the vicinity. Then he begins pointing towards our goals and pleading his case. Did he think it was our free?

It wasn't a harsh fifty, it was correctly adjudicated.

Fair enough then Ugg - no excuses for Hanners then, that was just what how it appeared to me at the ground but from a fair way away.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Can anyone think of a team that came top4 or won a GF with as many debutants as we have this year and with as many players with such little footy games played at Snr level ?

I can't in the last 15 years or so

We are doing very well in 2016

Very well and we will get better at these tight games last qtr

Our young ones are learning very fast

[kilroy]

I agree that the 2 calls you pointed out were probably wrong, but were close, and you can understand how in real time an umpire can make a mistake. There were others that went our way, such as Buddy having Morris in a headlock then a penalty called on Morris for holding and the then there was the handball called a throw that directly led to a Swans' goal. You just have to hope those questionable calls even out in the end.

If you think the penalty doesn't fit the crime, you're not the only one. There are always debates about what the rules should be. Perhaps you should write to the AFL Rules Committee.

I think the AFL want the best umpiring possible. Most of the umpires have been around for a while and are quite experienced. It takes a fair bit of time at lower levels just to get a chance at AFL level. So what's wrong? Are the AFL just choosing the wrong people to umpire? Is the training program not up to standard? Is it a problem that starts at junior level? I don't know if you watch the weekly Whistleblowers videocast on the AFL website. Some of the more controversial call are discussed by with umpire boss Wayne Campbell. I find it very instructive.

You seem to be suggesting that the current lot of umpires be sacked and replaced by another group. Do you have any idea where these new and better umpires will come from?


Dont pay stupid technical free kicks that kill momentum. The hawks are great beneficiaries of this, how many times in the last couple of years has our momentum been killed due to umpire Stevic pulling a technical free kick out of no where? Then pow hawks pile on the goals. Or awarding them very soft free kicks in front of goal? Where do you think the free kick hawthorn meme came from?

People mention how grand finals are never over umpired and how it results in a fair and good contest, why can't this be applied to the normal season? Why must it only occur in finals and then the big game?

Sorry but I will agree to disagree. The current state of umpiring is so bad it opens itself up to a lot of unsavoury possible outcomes and with the AFL and gambling in bed with each other atm..well..you like a good conspiracy don't you ludwig. ;)

But its ok I will accept its part of the game and everytime we play concede 3 goals from terrible umpire decisions, makes the game a lot more fun and wins feel more satisfying knowing that we not only came back from 3 goals down, we also beat a team who had an extra 3 men on the field. Its part of the game �\_(?)_/�

[kilroy]

Ove watched that again, and it's 50/50 at best. The goal was going through even if he didnt mark it, so the dogs deserved a goal and swans deserved to conceed one.

The umps can only call what they see. Even if it was a push the ump may have been obscured. Happens in all sports.

You cant blame the umps for the loss.and its pathetic to try

Buddy gets pinged all-the-time for less. He just has to put one finger on a defenders back or side and free kick to opposition.

Another area of umpiring i would like to see stopped - picking out certain players and applying different rules to them. Another facet that leaves me gobsmacked as to why its been accepted as part of the game.

Umpires should not under any circumstances apply different rules to their favourite or disliked players.

[barry]

I don't think that happens. Some players push the envelope more than others.

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[The Big Cat]

There are swings and roundabouts. There were a few we should have got but buddy got a free when he had Morris in a headlock, stringer had his arm dragged down when marking in front of goal, bullies got pinged for a throw when it was a hardball and we got a goal so we can't really whinge.

[mcs]

I don't think that happens. Some players push the envelope more than others.

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I agree Barry that there are players that push the envelope more than others - but there are a group that get far rougher treatment than others, and that is the big key forward. Look at the crap Barry Hall went through with umps, players like Matthew Richardson, and now Buddy is a decent example (there are plenty of others). If Buddy got half the calls of some of the umpire's darlings going around in the competition at the moment, he would be well on the way to being the all time highest goalkicker in VFL/AFL history. Defenders know they can get away with so much on him, and probably only get pinged once, maybe twice across a game.

[mcs]

Dont pay stupid technical free kicks that kill momentum. The hawks are great beneficiaries of this, how many times in the last couple of years has our momentum been killed due to umpire Stevic pulling a technical free kick out of no where? Then pow hawks pile on the goals. Or awarding them very soft free kicks in front of goal? Where do you think the free kick hawthorn meme came from?

People mention how grand finals are never over umpired and how it results in a fair and good contest, why can't this be applied to the normal season? Why must it only occur in finals and then the big game?

Sorry but I will agree to disagree. The current state of umpiring is so bad it opens itself up to a lot of unsavoury possible outcomes and with the AFL and gambling in bed with each other atm..well..you like a good conspiracy don't you ludwig. ;)

But its ok I will accept its part of the game and everytime we play concede 3 goals from terrible umpire decisions, makes the game a lot more fun and wins feel more satisfying knowing that we not only came back from 3 goals down, we also beat a team who had an extra 3 men on the field. Its part of the game �\_(?)_/�

I agree with a lot of your sentiment Kilroy, in particular around the game being over-officiated at times, which can really ruin what it is all about - which is the footy, not the umpires.

[barry]

I wouldn't use barry hall as an example of umpy bias. We won a flag because he GOT OFF a clear suspension in 2005 prelim.

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[mcs]

I wouldn't use barry hall as an example of umpy bias. We won a flag because he GOT OFF a clear suspension in 2005 prelim.

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He didn't 'get off' a clear suspension at all (this is one of those falsehoods that has perpetuated ever since our flag).

It was downgraded after the club successfully argued it was 'in play' rather than 'behind play' - he was still guilty, but was under the 100 points needed for a one week suspension. The club was utilised the AFL's example provided earlier in the season in regards to demonstrating behind play/in play to help support the defence case.

Hall cleared to play in grand final - AFL - Sport - smh.com.au (http://www.smh.com.au/news/afl/hall-cleared-to-play-in-grand-final/2005/09/20/1126982057281.html)

What happened at the judiciary is irrelevant anyway to the discussion being held here.

[Velour&Ruffles]

I wouldn't use barry hall as an example of umpy bias. We won a flag because he GOT OFF a clear suspension in 2005 prelim.

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Bloody Hell, with friends like you who needs enemies? Go and read the "Rewriting History" thread and get your facts right.

[kilroy]

I don't think that happens. Some players push the envelope more than others.

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It happens and you know it, you just love being a contrarian.

Perfect example would Alex Rance vs Buddy. In a 50/50 contest Rance will always win a free kick regardless, umps love Rance and dislike Buddy. The mindset being that full forwards are big and strong enough to handle it so they dont need umpire protection.

Which is a load of BS because you cant exempt special players from rules, thats why we have @@@@en rules!

[kilroy]

I agree with a lot of your sentiment Kilroy, in particular around the game being over-officiated at times, which can really ruin what it is all about - which is the footy, not the umpires.

Every single game that i watch my anger or stress level is focused too much on umpires, which i dont get with other codes. For example i always expect for the worst when theres a 50/50 contest in our defensive 50. Heck if you look at our defenders the first thing they look at at after a good contested mark is over at the umps expecting these idiots to pluck something out of mid air.

All the time.

But you know, the mindset seems to be we have to accept it because its part of the game, you know cheating is part of watching AFL. I mean this is a league that ask th rich clubs who they would like to play in the "fixture" so i shouldn't expect a fair contest at all. Its basically WWE with a pig skin ball.

I sometimes wish the swans were bottom 4 so i could walk away and lose interest in the game, because seriously i dislike the code but love the swans a lot. Each game has me questioning why i watch such a flawed sport, which makes me sad because a mere 5 years ago i loved everything about the code, but its turned sour for me since 2012 dealing with the nastiness of hawk fans, the vindictiveness of vic "super clubs", the bull@@@@ peddled by the idiotic Victorian VFL media and by those who run the code.

[waswan]

McGlynn needs a spell for Papley. Maybe needs to go back to being a tagger and release Mitchell as a Mid/Forward.
No hard ball gets for Mcglynn, no clean pickups just handball receives, not what he is in the side for
Heeney just needs a position, maybe Mid/For swapping with Mitchell, kids cant play 4 positions seemlessly in one day. Prob same with Rohan, leave him forward
Rohan was BOG in the 1st Qtr, talk about a drop off but I blame coaching as much as anything
Towers/Rose are energetic but just need to slow down a bit, Towers needs to stay, only one providing an option up the ground

They went forward and scored, we wasted opportunities.
Nankervis needs to step up this week, was at the game last year in Geelong, Blicavs ran our rucks ragged after we controlled the first half -
We had no buddy too last year at Geelong......which really made me happy after flying over from Perth and Training it down to Geelong

[AnnieH]

Wow.
Far, far, far too many ineffective disposals for my liking.
Towers, McHack and Jack I think had one between them.
If you can punch the ball with two fists, you can mark it. There was a lot of that happening.
There was a lot of standing around looking at the ball, and a lot of playing the man, and not the ball.
There was no manning up.
What's the point in 10 swans going for a non-screamer, leaving no rovers to pick up the pieces.
We have no rovers.
Kicking the ball into the dogs forward 50 in the last seconds of the game was a bit of a mistake.
FML.

[kilroy]

A few media pundits agree that it should have been a free to mills. Pay that and we perhaps stem the tide.

But instead it was a goal and gave the dogs more momentum.

Its these little instances that effect games far far to often and we the fans should not be expected to put up with and accept it.

- - - Updated - - -


Wow.
Far, far, far too many ineffective disposals for my liking.
Towers, McHack and Jack I think had one between them.
If you can punch the ball with two fists, you can mark it. There was a lot of that happening.
There was a lot of standing around looking at the ball, and a lot of playing the man, and not the ball.
There was no manning up.
What's the point in 10 swans going for a non-screamer, leaving no rovers to pick up the pieces.
We have no rovers.
Kicking the ball into the dogs forward 50 in the last seconds of the game was a bit of a mistake.
FML.

Are we still insisting on disrespecting pur club and champion by calling him McHack? Its not funny at all. Since you are on first name basis with the players, next time you see him call him McHack and see if he thinks its funney ha ha ha.

Show some class and respect.

[aardvark]

Not turning up to play in the 3rd quarter cost us the game.

[Industrial Fan]

The 50 against hanners and the towers kick into the man in the mark were they key moments in the turnaround. The free leading to the 50 looked pretty soft as well.

We were absolutely shot in the last two minutes with no movement at all so harsh to blame Lloyd imo.

Strangely didn't leave the ground all that disappointed. Was a great contest that could have gone either way.

Reminded me a bit of the 2012 game the Hawks played there. We controlled most of the day, a few short busts lost it for us.

We know what we get from our core but great learning from the younger players.

Personally I don't think Towers is our future but really happy with how Jones has come on. Don't remember him conceding a silly free for at least a few games which is promising.

[barry]

A few media pundits agree that it should have been a free to mills.

i couldnt give a rats what a few blokey media pundits think.

I'd take a trained umpire in the split second over the clowns in the media with copious amounts of replays and forced opinions.

- - - Updated - - -




Personally I don't think Towers is our future but really happy with how Jones has come on. Don't remember him conceding a silly free for at least a few games which is promising.

No team is full of champions. So you need to live with our bottom 4 players, and make the most of them.

Towers' endeavour has improved heaps this year. A bit of confidence, and he'll improve his disposal more. he just lacks a little poise.

[magic.merkin]

hanners 50m cost us more than any missed mills free kick. Control what you can control...

[Industrial Fan]

i couldnt give a rats what a few blokey media pundits think.

I'd take a trained umpire in the split second over the clowns in the media with copious amounts of replays and forced opinions.

- - - Updated - - -



No team is full of champions. So you need to live with our bottom 4 players, and make the most of them.

Towers' endeavour has improved heaps this year. A bit of confidence, and he'll improve his disposal more. he just lacks a little poise.yeah I get that. But would put rose ahead of him at the moment. Also Towers value comes through if we have a mid game ruck injury. I think Reid will take towers place when he is finally fit and the side will look more balanced and have another tall marking target.

[barry]

Yes. Reid will be the one to displace towers.

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[AnnieH]

A few media pundits agree that it should have been a free to mills. Pay that and we perhaps stem the tide.

But instead it was a goal and gave the dogs more momentum.

Its these little instances that effect games far far to often and we the fans should not be expected to put up with and accept it.

- - - Updated - - -



Are we still insisting on disrespecting pur club and champion by calling him McHack? Its not funny at all. Since you are on first name basis with the players, next time you see him call him McHack and see if he thinks its funney ha ha ha.

Show some class and respect.

I've called him McHack to his face.
And I think you should stop attacking me every time I post.

MODS????

[mcs]

Personally I don't think Towers is our future but really happy with how Jones has come on. Don't remember him conceding a silly free for at least a few games which is promising.

I'm glad the faith in Jones is starting to really pay dividends for us. The rougher edges of his game are really starting to be ironed out now, and he has a lot of potential to be a superb player for us. I really like how he goes about his footy, and he will only get better from here.

- - - Updated - - -


If you can punch the ball with two fists, you can mark it. There was a lot of that happening.


This has plagued our beloved swans for many a year. You can add to that spoiling teammates/ getting in the way of what would be easy marks if players worked harder to call each other out of the contest when necessary. As with the Towers/Parker incident, it can be very costly in a close game.

[mcs]

Nankervis needs to step up this week, was at the game last year in Geelong, Blicavs ran our rucks ragged after we controlled the first half -
We had no buddy too last year at Geelong......which really made me happy after flying over from Perth and Training it down to Geelong

So does Sinclair. Our two big men were basically anonymous around the ground against the Dogs, and the Cats will slaughter us if that is repeated on Friday. I really think Naismith is a better option than Nankervis, and you can argue despite a bright start to the season, Sinclair has been disappointing over the last 6 weeks or so. We need a big lift in that space, and what is really clear is just how much we are going to miss Tippo over the closing weeks of the regular season - certainly I think we are no hope of winning the flag without him if he doesn't get back in 2016.

[rojo]

Have just been watching a replay of the last quarter, twice, and have to say that apart from the last minute, some of the backline heroics were inspirational, by Grundy, Rampe and Smith in particular, and around the ball the players showed great desperation. It was entries into the forward 50, again, with no Swan able to be on the end of the long bomb that cost us time and again. Hanners for instance had the ball on the wing/forward and called for someone to lead - Rose did and got well clear, admittedly he should have done so sooner, but then Hanners ignored his lead and kicked it to the throng and it was easily cleared by the opposition. With Rohan having been taken from the forward line Heeney and Rose were just not strong enough in the crumbing stakes. There were quite a few telling poor decisions under pressure and not only by the inexperienced players. I thought Macca was one who really stood up - if only his last shot for goal had gone through!

[kilroy]

So does Sinclair. Our two big men were basically anonymous around the ground against the Dogs, and the Cats will slaughter us if that is repeated on Friday. I really think Naismith is a better option than Nankervis, and you can argue despite a bright start to the season, Sinclair has been disappointing over the last 6 weeks or so. We need a big lift in that space, and what is really clear is just how much we are going to miss Tippo over the closing weeks of the regular season - certainly I think we are no hope of winning the flag without him if he doesn't get back in 2016.

Nankervis lost me when he was easily pushed over in that contest which lead to a goal. Sorry but his papers should be marked.

Dont play any ruckman at all. Just get a tall to contest it for the sake of it and position our mids to shark the tap.

We cant be carrying two lumbering talls, who if combined as one player still wont offer much.

[Bill Posters]

I'm getting sick of soft free kicks going to the opposition either gifting them a goal, or stopping one of ours. But the free kick count often seems even so I'm concluding that the frees for us are more often in the middle of the ground where it can't directly affect the score.

But I'm also aware that I may not be, ahem, completely impartial here. I don't suppose someone with a lot of free time can watch a replay of the game and classify each free kick for us and them by the result of the kick? Eg. Shot on goal, prevented goal, buggerall, etc?

[Plugger46]

Never seen anyone whinge about umpiring when their side wins. Funny about that.

[liz]

Never seen anyone whinge about umpiring when their side wins. Funny about that.

2012 GF?

[rojo]

Thanks goodness those posts regarding the umpiring on Saturday are being deleted - it was getting tedious beyond measure!

On the other hand comments by the black sheep are usually anything but boring!

[jono2707]

Good to see everyone's already preparing to blame the umpires if we lose.....

This guy nailed it - he must be some kind of Nostrodamus or something....

[Auntie.Gerald]

And after this little forum mental breakdown we look at the leader board and the mighty hawks swam right past and are no 1 on the table

I am really happy with where we are with one of the most in experienced teams in the comp

Let's see from here :). !!!!!

[Ludwig]

First, that turnover kick by Lloyd has to be viewed in context. It is also the responsibility of the other 17 players on the ground to run into space and offer a good option to kick to. That didn't happen and kicking down the line in hope was the best option once the pressure was on.

I feel that Lloyd is trying to step up from being just a link up player to one that is a 25+ possession player that makes a big impact on games. He's usually a good user of the ball and a good decision maker. He's testing the limits of his ability at the moment and making more mistakes with disposals under pressure or trying to kick too fine into dangerous situations. It's hard to know if he will crack through this latest barrier. So far this year his lowest possession game was 18, so he has stepped up and is more involved in play. He has to continue his progress and become effective in pressure situations to move to the next level.

It's his 3rd year as a regular in the team and overall he continues to improve. The pressure will be on his spot next year because we have a number of players in the reserves year that will be knocking on the door.

[AnnieH]

Upside was that MMM was "real live" this week.
Jude must've said something.
;)

[Plugger46]

2012 GF?

I stand corrected.

[Auntie.Gerald]

We will win 6 of our last 8

Come 3rd I believe

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-04/the-road-to-the-2016-afl-finals-predicting-the-top-eight/7565800

[Triple B]

The ironic thing about Lloyd not being able to find anybody running to space to provide a get out target in the dying stages, is that Lloyd is usually that guy.

Fosdike was the master of gut running to space and provided a get out for the likes of Leo and Tadhg. Lloyd does a similar job...

[Auntie.Gerald]

Ladies and gents
So much was lost prior to Lloyd kicking down the line like he should in that situation and more effort for a contest across the line was required

The top 6 are very evenly matched except on their day GWS and Hawks are to good for our inexperienced depth

[dimelb]

I'm pleased to see people speaking up for Lloyd - he's been good for us this year without necessarily being brilliant - but he's been a solid, reliable player. At first I was inclined to blame him, but the poor bloke was running in a circle and couldn't find a handy Swan anywhere, so kick long and hope for the best wasn't necessarily the poorest choice.

[barry]

I'd say thats put as toward a predicted 5th finish. We'll need to snag an "upset" win somewhere, or hope one of the top 4 drop a game unexpectedly.

[Plugger46]

It'd be hard enough to do the ladder predictor in R23. Absolutely impossible with 8 rounds to go unless you pick 9 winners every week.

[mcs]

We will win 6 of our last 8

Come 3rd I believe

AFL 2016 road to the finals: How will the top eight look by September? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-04/the-road-to-the-2016-afl-finals-predicting-the-top-eight/7565800)

One thing im pretty comfortable about is that we are not going to win all 8 of our remaining games - especially without Tippo. I'd be more than happy with 6/8 to be honest, which will give us a decent shot at top 4.

[Cosmic Wizard]

Nankervis lost me when he was easily pushed over in that contest which lead to a goal. Sorry but his papers should be marked.

Dont play any ruckman at all. Just get a tall to contest it for the sake of it and position our mids to shark the tap.

We cant be carrying two lumbering talls, who if combined as one player still wont offer much.

Never sold on Nankervis; if you are not fast and or have a tank you can't be a ruckman.

Love the guy but never saw the reasoning behind recruiting him in the first place.

Sinclair is very young and this experience will improve him no ends.

Did anyone watch AA on afl.com today??

Once again Tower catch napping and quite a few of our player not pushing back hard enough.

Still a take the positive note on all this; very young team in contention for a premiership.

Hawks will lose this week, we win at Geelong, and the hawks drop 5 places!

[Auntie.Gerald]

I think there is a little bit of a balancing between having the right composition of players come finals time that can combat successfully the best teams vs just recruiting the best players

we have had to manufacture Lloyd, HarryC and Towers into what we need vs the high recruits that are more gifted at say GWS

Even mills and Heeney are altered to what we need at either end of the field instead of their rightful midfield possies and that means flat lining some weeks

The amount of young high picked outside players they have stocked has made their combo with the cherry picked Snr players is just awesome

Therefore we have had to put time into the fast and link players And that happens in an up and down profession in ability and mastery

Wananavu as they say in Fiji :)

[aardvark]

Sinclair is very young and this experience will improve him no ends.

or he could be nearly 27.:wink: I suppose that's very young compared to me.

[RogueSwan]

We will win 6 of our last 8

Come 3rd I believe

AFL 2016 road to the finals: How will the top eight look by September? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-04/the-road-to-the-2016-afl-finals-predicting-the-top-eight/7565800)

I had go on the AFL predictor a few times and ended up with us finishing either fourth or second but every time GWS was on top.


Never sold on Nankervis; if you are not fast and or have a tank you can't be a ruckman.

Love the guy but never saw the reasoning behind recruiting him in the first place.

Sinclair is very young and this experience will improve him no ends.

I think they both look like footballers. They do seem to be in the right spot on the field at the right times but just don't have the experience to make the most of that positioning.

[mcs]

I had go on the AFL predictor a few times and ended up with us finishing either fourth or second but every time GWS was on top.



I think they both look like footballers. They do seem to be in the right spot on the field at the right times but just don't have the experience to make the most of that positioning.

Nankervis is always going to be hamstrung by being a dinosaur type ruckman at a time where the game appears to be rapidly moving past that style of football. Would of been a potential 200+ gamer if he was born 20 years earlier, but I just can't see it now.

Sinclair really does appear to be an almost player. He is not particularly young in terms of his age, but is still relatively inexperienced.

What is clear is that we need a lot more around the ground from whatever rucks we have in the team to have any hope against the Cats and Hawks.

[AnnieH]

Is it just me, or does Callum S look like he needs to be wearing a stack hat when he's running.
It must be so hard being that tall.
Sinclair will come about... he just needs more time.
I'd like to see the 2s ruckman stand a little taller.
We need them.

[Plugger46]

Sinclair is nearly 27. Not sure where this sudden improvement is going to come from. Just a battler.

[kilroy]

Yeah I dont think at 27 he needs more time, he should be primed as a ruckman by now. He just isnt that good, has a lot of drive and heart but skills wise he lacks.

[AnnieH]

Sinclair is nearly 27. Not sure where this sudden improvement is going to come from. Just a battler.

Yeah, I know.
He hasn't really had that much game time... was he second or third string to NicNat?
The pressure is on him now to perform.
We really, really, really need him.

[56-14]

Seems to me that Sinclair does a couple of handy things, but is not up to scratch.
If he's on a low salary, will be useful as a last resort back-up.
(Surely Derickx has to go.)

[Ludwig]

I would rank our Ruck-Forward players as follows: Tippett, Naismith, Nankervis
And would rank our Forward-Relief Ruck players as follows: Reid, Sinclair, Davis

We could go with a Tippett-Naismith as our first choice combo because both offer a lot as forwards and around the ground.

The problem we have now is that our best players in both categories are injured and our second best ruckman has not yet been deemed ready to play, so we've been playing our 4th and 5th options to cover these 2 positions.

The Dogs were missing 2 of their best players in Murphy and Dahlhaus, so injury is not an excuse for the loss. They just took their opportunities when they came and kicked a few goals out of nothing. We, on the other hand, had many good goal scoring opportunities that we let slip by. That and some mental errors cost us the game.

[Triple B]

I am intrigued about the OOB decision when Sinclair appeared to take a single grab inside the line before crossing it. Can't tell from the replay. Did anyone at the ground see it because I thought that actually changed the trend at the time?



Unfortunately he clearly juggled it....

[Plugger46]

Yeah, I know.
He hasn't really had that much game time... was he second or third string to NicNat?
The pressure is on him now to perform.
We really, really, really need him.

He ended up being 2nd string last year. Lycett started in the role and Sinclair was able to overtake him.

[giant]

The ironic thing about Lloyd not being able to find anybody running to space to provide a get out target in the dying stages, is that Lloyd is usually that guy.

Fosdike was the master of gut running to space and provided a get out for the likes of Leo and Tadhg. Lloyd does a similar job...

I was sitting right behind Lloyd at that play, he clearly chose against (an admittedly tough) pass to Hewitt in the centre to screw blind across his shoulders. It was a poor choice. What made it (and the choices of many of his team-mates in those final seconds) look so ghastly was how well drilled Daniel/Bont/Johanssen were in comparison.

Love how well our youngsters have played this year and the effort all season has been tremendous - but there's a part of me not keen to see us make the GF this year as our efforts under pressure this season suggest we'll be smashed.