WTF?

[treespirit]

OK, so despite the current membership card hanging in my study, I've been out of the loop for the season so far, for various reasons.

Can anyone summarise for me WTF is going on with our team? I've noticed the losing bit. But why is it happening?

[Southern Swan15]

Workrate, form and game plan. We look slow and old and have no clear structure. Nobody seems prepared to work to help somebody. A few 1%ers would be nice to see.

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[Danzar]

Definitely work rate. Toss in some key injuries too..we were heavily exposed yesterday in the ruck.

[Hotpotato]

Natural evolution of the draft system...
You just can't stay at or near the top for a prolonged period now..

[Swanny40519]

I think there are some serious problems at the club because there does not appear to be any enthusiasm, teamwork, being prepared to work your guts out etc etc.

Plus the coaching staff don't have any answers to what the problem is. If they did then hopefully changes would be made to fix the problems. You cannot blame injuries on what we have been dishing up since game 1.

Our game plan is now obsolete and we are being left behind the fast running, attacking teams.

Our key players look worn out, defeated both mentally and physically.

[Rob]

Natural evolution of the draft system...
You just can't stay at or near the top for a prolonged period now..

Even so, this is an unprecedented drop off in form


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[Swanny40519]

Definitely work rate. Toss in some key injuries too..we were heavily exposed yesterday in the ruck.

I agree, but there have been some very puzzling selection decisions. We lose a ruck for the Carlton game, and what - we bring in 2 small forwards. Plus we try and play Buddy as a midfielder ????

[aardvark]

We have a handful of All Australians, one of the best forwards ever to play, a couple of rising stars and a few first round draft pics. We also have a complete lack of effort and desire and a game plan that resembles a low grade U/10 team. There really is no excuse for being so bad.

It is easy to blame the draft, lack of cola, players worn out from being at the top too long and trade bans and they have probably had some effect, but personally I think there is something rotten internally we don't really know about.

[Jonesy94]

Imagine you recruit players and develop them to play a certain way. Its working and you make 2 GF using that game plan and philosophy. Every new swans player apparently is schooled on how the swans play, the bloods code, hard and accountable footy.

Then suddenly the rules are changed and tweeked overnight and you are left with the wrong players who have been indoctrinated to play a certain style that has proven to be successful, well almost but we did make 2 GFs. Then you have to play a new way and adapt quickly. If you are a senior player whos deficiencies were covered up (pace is something our mids never had but we covered that in the way we tackled hard around the ball) with a game plan but now all of a sudden they are exposed, it must be deflating.

It feels like we have a team of heavy v8 super cars with lotsa grunt but now are forced to race against light weight turbo cars and we simply cannot compete.

Even the pacey players we have brought in show the same skills like the rest of the team and play a certain way.

Longmuire needs to spend the rest of the season figuring out a new game plan, start by using Heeney and Mills as a base. Sadly that means it could be the end of some of our more loved players, like Parker. Though I think Parker could easily slot as a full time defensive forward.

[The Big Cat]

I am sick to death of people talking about internal division when there is absolutely nothing to point to this except a team totally devoid of confidence and stability of personal. In 6 games we have played 34 players and that's without McVeigh and Johnson who are automatic ins when fit. Try and get system with that many changes

[0918330512]

Injuries

[waswan]

Injuries were an acceptable excuse until yesterday
the coaches box we have no plan B
it is always other sides figuring out how to play against us
when have we ever played a game with this coach and countered what the other team is trying to do
he simply has 1 way to play if that doesn't work we are screwed

[grarmy]

Enthusiasm, skills.

[RogueSwan]

I am sick to death of people talking about internal division when there is absolutely nothing to point to this except a team totally devoid of confidence and stability of personal. In 6 games we have played 34 players and that's without McVeigh and Johnson who are automatic ins when fit. Try and get system with that many changes
Well said TBC. ????????????

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[crackedactor]

totally disagree that there is not some internal division. Watch the SF against Adelaide last year and now watch yesterday some eight games later with almost an identical side. We were outstanding against Adelaide. You don't lose that much skills and co-ordination unless there is something mentally happening. If it was just draft picks, it would be a slow drop off of form, not a dramatic one.

[Mel_C]

Is it just a coincidence that we have fallen so suddenly along with the Hawks? Or could it be that the number of years at the top have taken their toll?

The hawks lost 2 senior players but that doesn't explain their sudden lack of skills and effort.

Now I know we were never a really skillful side, but yesterday the number of kicks that landed at the players feet, the number of dropped marks, the fumbles and the lack of work rate was just unbelievable. It was embarrassing. And this was from senior players.

We are just so devoid of any confidence at the moment. I don't know what the answer is to fix this apart from winning a game, which is easier said than done!

To top it all off an ex work mate who barracks for the saints is sending me a screenshot of the ladder and having a go at me. ???? There are so many things I could respond with but I am just ignoring him.

[goswannies]

To top it all off an ex work mate who barracks for the saints is sending me a screenshot of the ladder and having a go at me. ???? There are so many things I could respond with but I am just ignoring him.

I'm getting it too - but I'm surrounded by Crows & Port "supporters"

[sprite]

I am sick to death of people talking about internal division when there is absolutely nothing to point to this except a team totally devoid of confidence and stability of personal. In 6 games we have played 34 players and that's without McVeigh and Johnson who are automatic ins when fit. Try and get system with that many changes

+1

[Billericay]

I am sick to death of people talking about internal division when there is absolutely nothing to point to this except a team totally devoid of confidence and stability of personal. In 6 games we have played 34 players and that's without McVeigh and Johnson who are automatic ins when fit. Try and get system with that many changes

+1 There has also been a major change of leadership since last year and the loss of Mitchell has been more significant than we initially thought.

[Auntie.Gerald]

If Jetta and Rohan and towers and lamb turned out half as good as expected we would probably be in a lethal position

4 top picks that have lived up to what we hoped for

[bodgie]

Last year we were able to blood young players with a well performing senior core, keeping the same structure, with players coming in who were prepared for clear roles. This year with too many gaps to fill the structure has broken down. Shaw and Crouchy are sending in raw youth without the clear roles they once understood. And with the senior players struggling to provide the usual guidance .... well its a nervous rabble.

[mcs]

Is it just a coincidence that we have fallen so suddenly along with the Hawks? Or could it be that the number of years at the top have taken their toll?

The hawks lost 2 senior players but that doesn't explain their sudden lack of skills and effort.

Now I know we were never a really skillful side, but yesterday the number of kicks that landed at the players feet, the number of dropped marks, the fumbles and the lack of work rate was just unbelievable. It was embarrassing. And this was from senior players.

We are just so devoid of any confidence at the moment. I don't know what the answer is to fix this apart from winning a game, which is easier said than done!

To top it all off an ex work mate who barracks for the saints is sending me a screenshot of the ladder and having a go at me. ???? There are so many things I could respond with but I am just ignoring him.

The one common factor between the Swans and Hawks are they are probably the 2 sides worst placed to (at least in the short term of season 2017) actively adjust their gameplans to fit the changing style of footy, in which quick midfields in particular are increasingly critical.

The Hawks relied solely on elite skills to overcome their lack of pace (and got rid of two of their better midfielders in this regard) and recruited another that is a contested ball king but not a good use of the ball, and we've never had a 'fast' midfield in the same regard as GWS/Dogs etc, and now are struggling in our usual areas of dominance (Such as contested possession). Both teams are really struggling to make games be played 'on their terms' per say.

[mcs]

totally disagree that there is not some internal division. Watch the SF against Adelaide last year and now watch yesterday some eight games later with almost an identical side. We were outstanding against Adelaide. You don't lose that much skills and co-ordination unless there is something mentally happening. If it was just draft picks, it would be a slow drop off of form, not a dramatic one.

I don't want to think there is internal discontent at the club, but I find it hard to see how we have dropped off so incredibly much without something going very wrong that we don't know about it. It would not surprise me at all, as we have a lot of 'passengers' at the moment, in particular the senior players, which is a worry.

[rb4x]

Like us the Hawks also have a new captain.

[crackedactor]

I am a bit shocked at this thread. Heeney said yesterday when he returned to the team there was an eerie silence on the field. To me that is one big warning bell that players are not proud to wear the Red and White. There is some internal conflict. Maybe its the Tippett/Grundy GF fight. Maybe Tippett has upset more than one person??? I am not sure but WTF?????

[bloodspirit]

I am sick to death of people talking about internal division when there is absolutely nothing to point to this except a team totally devoid of confidence and stability of personal. In 6 games we have played 34 players and that's without McVeigh and Johnson who are automatic ins when fit. Try and get system with that many changes

This.

Also, here's an explanation from Ash Browne at afl.com.au:

But the Swans are winless at the bottom of the ladder and a few clear ideas are starting to emerge as to why.

The first are the injuries and what the Swans haven't been able to do is settle their side down. Too many key Swans, notably All Australian defender Dane Rampe (one game) and former skipper Jarrad McVeigh have barely played and the defence has suffered. Isaac Heeney has only managed two games after a bout of glandular fever, while Kurt Tippett lacks continuity.

Sydney's blue-collar but blue ribbon midfield is also down. Josh Kennedy has been OK, while Luke Parker and Dan Hannebery are battling. Neither appears fully fit although they have both played all six games so far. Tom Mitchell is sorely missed for his ball-getting abilities and over at Hawthorn he has been the one shining light so far this season.

Lance Franklin has been good this season, but even a player of his stature can't carry the team on his formidable shoulders. Sam Reid kicked six goals against the Bulldogs in round two, but various injuries haven't allowed him to settle in one part of the ground. Gary Rohan and Tom Papley haven't played enough, either.

[RogueSwan]

This.

Also, here's an explanation from Ash Browne at afl.com.au:

But the Swans are winless at the bottom of the ladder and a few clear ideas are starting to emerge as to why. ..

I think the key word being continuity and not just for Tippo. In the past, when we were good, we were able to carry a stable team with minimal changes and the team was able to gel. I am hoping once we are able to keep the same team on the field for 4-5 weeks we will start to the team play like we know they can.

[frankee]

Its all confidence IMO. Teams know they can beat us, we are unsure if we can win.

[Blue Sun]

I think there are some serious problems at the club because there does not appear to be any enthusiasm, teamwork, being prepared to work your guts out etc etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if the boys are still deflated after their questionable loss in the GF last year. Compounded again this year when they were dudded by the umpires in the GF rematch. Its hard to play a hard brand of footy when you are penalised for it and makes you question how to go about your footy.

[RogueSwan]

Its all confidence IMO. Teams know they can beat us, we are unsure if we can win.
My uneducated opinion - the lack of confidence shows when everyone around the ball is going for it because they lack confidence in their team mate getting the ball. This in turn leads to no one being just on the outside of the ruck, Hanners and Lloyd's most dangerous position, and often gives the opposition a clean getaway from the contest and an unhurried kick into of D50.
Last year Kennedy, Mitchell and Parker (to a lesser extent) were able to win the ball inside and give to our better kicks. This year sees that structure just collapsing onto the ball.

[stevoswan]

Agree with Blue Sun above, but what we really lack is this (from ABC News website re: Crows backline)): "One crucial element was the ability of Adelaide's defenders to hit their targets coming out of the back 50.

Curtley Hampton's disposal efficiency was only 57 per cent, but his team-mates were elite, led by Rory Laird and Daniel Talia whose disposal efficiency was 94 per cent.

Brodie Smith hit his targets 90 per cent of the time, while Luke Brown (88 per cent), Jake Kelly (85) and Kyle Hartigan (80) were also impressive.

When you can't force a mistake out of your opponents' back six, it's very hard to score. Just ask Richmond." We are Curtly Hampton or worse, our disposal efficiency out of the backline is total crap and making it easy for the opposition to score and nigh on impossible for us to score on the counter.....It all starts down back, gee we miss Rampe (and even McVeigh!) and of course, AJ at his best. It would also be nice if our onballers lifted their game in the middle, as RogueSwan alluded to, to stop it getting down there in the first place. With a bit of luck, everything may fall into place next season, this one is done.....

[Billericay]

Its all confidence IMO. Teams know they can beat us, we are unsure if we can win.

Think this is a HUGE factor. My understanding is that dropping easy marks is a measure of confidence. So as an aside I'm also hoping that Sinclair will drop less as his confidence improves.

I think the points RogueSwan makes are valid too about people not just "playing their role". Parker seemed to want to do something heroic every time he got the ball and as a result got caught HTB I think 5 times.

We really REALLY need to win on Sunday.

[Jonesy94]

I wouldn't be surprised if the boys are still deflated after their questionable loss in the GF last year. Compounded again this year when they were dudded by the umpires in the GF rematch. Its hard to play a hard brand of footy when you are penalised for it and makes you question how to go about your footy.

Yeah frustration must be part of it. One thing is to go into a contest hard knowing you are doing the right thing and will be paid for it as opposed to doubting yourself, especially when you keep hearing the umps blow the whistle against you.

I think we lack serious leadership on the field. We are seriously directionless, no where to go with no real captain barking instructions. Heeney said it himself that its dead silent on the field. During our dominance we always had one player in all sections bark instructions on where to go etc. None of that is occurring and the boys look lost. KJ and McVeigh were the ones and before them we had Goodsey, ROK, J Bolton and R shaw, C Bolton down back AND before them under Roosy we had Kirk. So we have always had a general organising things on the field for the last decade and a bit. ATM we have no one. Poor Joey is not a captain, but how do you tell that to JPK?

[ScottH]

Played above expectations last year, and confidence grew.
Playing to last years expectations and confidence has gone missing.
Actually, not sure it even turned up this year. Did we trade it to Richmond last year with Toby?

[annew]

Yeah frustration must be part of it. One thing is to go into a contest hard knowing you are doing the right thing and will be paid for it as opposed to doubting yourself, especially when you keep hearing the umps blow the whistle against you.

I think we lack serious leadership on the field. We are seriously directionless, no where to go with no real captain barking instructions. Heeney said it himself that its dead silent on the field. During our dominance we always had one player in all sections bark instructions on where to go etc. None of that is occurring and the boys look lost. KJ and McVeigh were the ones and before them we had Goodsey, ROK, J Bolton and R shaw, C Bolton down back AND before them under Roosy we had Kirk. So we have always had a general organising things on the field for the last decade and a bit. ATM we have no one. Poor Joey is not a captain, but how do you tell that to JPK?
It is unfair to say Kennedy is not a captain when the team is changing every week along with bringing in inexperienced players. No wonder swans feel smashed they have been punished ever since the Buddy deal. With a 2 year trade ban enforced it was always going to affect the list and it surprises me we made it to a GF last year on the back of so many new players, that says the comp was a bit weak last year. We are pretty bad but can you honestly say the 6 or so teams just above us are that good cos Ess Melb game was pretty bad. The umpiring against the swans in the GF and subsequently this year again in round 2 would be enough to make anyone wonder WTF. Does anyone not think that the swans have done a great job considering they couldn't trade for 2 years. This ban forced them to bring in very young playrs and forced swans hand at trade table with Jetta. Would love to see how other teams would have coped with that as you still here them whinging about Carlton and their salary cap bans and Ess and drug bans. Do not forget the AFL said swans did nothing wrong, the AFL said GF umpiring was not up to standard.

[dejavoodoo44]

Played above expectations last year, and confidence grew.
Playing to last years expectations and confidence has gone missing.
Actually, not sure it even turned up this year. Did we trade it to Richmond last year with Toby?

Well, after the Adelaide match, they've probably finished with it. So perhaps they would like to give it back?

[Ludwig]

Agree with Blue Sun above, but what we really lack is this (from ABC News website re: Crows backline)): "One crucial element was the ability of Adelaide's defenders to hit their targets coming out of the back 50.

Curtley Hampton's disposal efficiency was only 57 per cent, but his team-mates were elite, led by Rory Laird and Daniel Talia whose disposal efficiency was 94 per cent.

Brodie Smith hit his targets 90 per cent of the time, while Luke Brown (88 per cent), Jake Kelly (85) and Kyle Hartigan (80) were also impressive.

When you can't force a mistake out of your opponents' back six, it's very hard to score. Just ask Richmond." We are Curtly Hampton or worse, our disposal efficiency out of the backline is total crap and making it easy for the opposition to score and nigh on impossible for us to score on the counter.....It all starts down back, gee we miss Rampe (and even McVeigh!) and of course, AJ at his best. It would also be nice if our onballers lifted their game in the middle, as RogueSwan alluded to, to stop it getting down there in the first place. With a bit of luck, everything may fall into place next season, this one is done.....
I agree with this. Adelaide is a great case of how to rebuild a team under extreme adversity. For various reasons they have lost some great players over the past few years, including Tippett (who was highly rated at the time), Phil Davis, Jack Gunston and Dangerfield. They lost their best kicker out of defence in Jaensch, I think due to concussion. Andy Otten, a slow but reliable defender was out for the better part of 2 or 3 years. They lost top draft picks for 2 years due to the Tippett fiasco. Yet they find themselves at the top of the table, the best team in footy atm.

Of course they drafted and traded well, picking up some very good late and rookie draft picks. Think Rory Laird and Atkins. The played Jake Lever from the first year even though he was badly outsized for a defender at the time. They persisted with Kyle Hartigan, who had many poor games over several years, but now he's a very solid defender.

We need to find our core defensive unit of the future by the second half of this year. As noted in the quoted post, we need to have a defensive unit that can move the ball out of defence efficiently. It can be done by efficient kicking or run and carry. Usually a combination of both is best. It takes time to get a back six to work well together as a unit, so we can't begin soon enough.

Who goes out:

Reg: He's simply too slow for a modern defence. He plays well enough against the old time full forward who tries to wrestle for a contested mark, but there aren't that many of those around any more. Reg is contracted through next year. The best thing would be for him to retire this year and we give him a coaching role to compensate for his lost salary.
Jake Lloyd: He's been great this year, but is not physical enough for a role in defense. We should play to his strength, which is a link up midfielder who runs hard and to the right spots, makes good decisions, and uses the ball well. He's really our replacement for Macca.
Callum Mills: He's good enough to play anywhere, but teams are finding out that he can be exploited physically. He's tough, but too young to be playing as a man on man defender. It's a waste not playing him in the midfield where he can get lots of ball, because he uses it well. Along with Lloyd, our outside game should be much improved.
Harry Cunningham: Is too soft for a defensive role and doesn't use his pace enough, his best asset. Harry can play a half forward role now that he's willing to tackle, but is probably not in our best 22.


Who stays or comes in:

Rampe: Yes, we really miss him. He's become the heart and soul of our defence. What can we do. He's injured. Things should get a lot better when he returns.
Smith: He hasn't had a great year so far, but he's still our best lock down small defender. He's far too young to be at the end of his career. There's not much we can do but hope he finds his best form again. We don't have a natural replacement for him. I was thinking that we could develop Fisher or Ronke into the next small defender. I would even give Florent a shot. He's very evasive, has pace and good skills.
Newman: Is one of the best kicks at the Swans. He can take the kick ins. He's quicker than he appears, usually preferring to use his ability to release a handball or kick the ball accurately even under pressure. He should improve with AFL experience.
Michael Talia: The Reg replacement. He should be a solid fullback. He's got the size and strength, is a decent kick and is not afraid to take the game on. He's 24 yo, but has only played 31 games. He needs to get a good run of games to develop.
Lewis Melican: He's in the side now and hope he stays there. He's quick for a defender, makes quick decisions and kicks well on both sides of his body. At only 20 yo, he could be one of the best key defenders in the game.
Aliir: A unique player. I would really like to see him playing through the midfield in due course, but let's get him settled in as a defender first. He will make mistakes, but he's a dynamic player that can hurt other sides with his marking, kicking and run and carry. Is great a ground level for such a big guy. He needs to smooth out the rough parts of his game, but is real weapon wherever he plays. He's also a very vocal player who add energy to the team.
Zak Jones: He's my number 1 run and carry choice. With Lloyd and Mills moving to the midfield, Zak would be the one to go back in defence. He's provided a lot of zip coming out defence when he's played there. He would make a good combo with Aliir as 2 dangerous runners from out backline.


Waiting in the Wings:


Harry Marsh: He should be able to hold down a spot in defense. If he's good enough, he could allow Rampe or Newman to spend more time through the midfield. Harry has good pace and is a powerful kick. He's been a slow but steady developer, so it's hard to know where his ceiling is.
Colin O'Riordan: I really like his game. Is solid in all aspects of the game. He seems a certainty to become a very good AFL player.
Jack Maibaum: Looks to be an excellent KPD prospect, who can also play forward. He will probably continue to develop in the NEAFL this year. Maybe will get a game or two. He's a backup for KPD if Talia fails to make it, but can also be the one that allows Aliir to take on a role outside of defence.
Alex Johnson: I'm hopeful that he will make a full recovery and follow the path of Dan Menzel and regain the form he once had. It's hard to predict what will happen, but will be a real bonus if he can make a full recovery.
Toby Pink: He's showing good signs as a key forward. A KPF is probably the toughest position to succeed in and it's a big step up from the NEAFL to the AFL, but he looks good enough to be a key defender or a ruckman, both positions he has played as a junior. He would be 'my kind of ruckman' in that he can compete in the ruck, has good pace and can be make an impact around the ground.


There you have it. The sooner we start the better. I think we have the personnel to take us forward for many years to come.

[ScottH]

Well, after the Adelaide match, they've probably finished with it. So perhaps they would like to give it back?
LOL. True. But Adelaide are a bloody good unit ATM.

I agree with this. Adelaide is a great case of how to rebuild a team under extreme adversity. For various reasons they have lost some great players over the past few years, including Tippett (who was highly rated at the time), Phil Davis, Jack Gunston and Dangerfield. They lost their best kicker out of defence in Jaensch, I think due to concussion. Andy Otten, a slow but reliable defender was out for the better part of 2 or 3 years. They lost top draft picks for 2 years due to the Tippett fiasco. Yet they find themselves at the top of the table, the best team in footy atm.

Of course they drafted and traded well, picking up some very good late and rookie draft picks. Think Rory Laird and Atkins. The played Jake Lever from the first year even though he was badly outsized for a defender at the time. They persisted with Kyle Hartigan, who had many poor games over several years, but now he's a very solid defender.

We need to find our core defensive unit of the future by the second half of this year. As noted in the quoted post, we need to have a defensive unit that can move the ball out of defence efficiently. It can be done by efficient kicking or run and carry. Usually a combination of both is best. It takes time to get a back six to work well together as a unit, so we can't begin soon enough.

Who goes out:

Reg: He's simply too slow for a modern defence. He plays well enough against the old time full forward who tries to wrestle for a contested mark, but there aren't that many of those around any more. Reg is contracted through next year. The best thing would be for him to retire this year and we give him a coaching role to compensate for his lost salary.
Jake Lloyd: He's been great this year, but is not physical enough for a role in defense. We should play to his strength, which is a link up midfielder who runs hard and to the right spots, makes good decisions, and uses the ball well. He's really our replacement for Macca.
Callum Mills: He's good enough to play anywhere, but teams are finding out that he can be exploited physically. He's tough, but too young to be playing as a man on man defender. It's a waste not playing him in the midfield where he can get lots of ball, because he uses it well. Along with Lloyd, our outside game should be much improved.
Harry Cunningham: Is too soft for a defensive role and doesn't use his pace enough, his best asset. Harry can play a half forward role now that he's willing to tackle, but is probably not in our best 22.


Who stays or comes in:

Rampe: Yes, we really miss him. He's become the heart and soul of our defence. What can we do. He's injured. Things should get a lot better when he returns.
Smith: He hasn't had a great year so far, but he's still our best lock down small defender. He's far too young to be at the end of his career. There's not much we can do but hope he finds his best form again. We don't have a natural replacement for him. I was thinking that we could develop Fisher or Ronke into the next small defender. I would even give Florent a shot. He's very evasive, has pace and good skills.
Newman: Is one of the best kicks at the Swans. He can take the kick ins. He's quicker than he appears, usually preferring to use his ability to release a handball or kick the ball accurately even under pressure. He should improve with AFL experience.
Michael Talia: The Reg replacement. He should be a solid fullback. He's got the size and strength, is a decent kick and is not afraid to take the game on. He's 24 yo, but has only played 31 games. He needs to get a good run of games to develop.
Lewis Melican: He's in the side now and hope he stays there. He's quick for a defender, makes quick decisions and kicks well on both sides of his body. At only 20 yo, he could be one of the best key defenders in the game.
Aliir: A unique player. I would really like to see him playing through the midfield in due course, but let's get him settled in as a defender first. He will make mistakes, but he's a dynamic player that can hurt other sides with his marking, kicking and run and carry. Is great a ground level for such a big guy. He needs to smooth out the rough parts of his game, but is real weapon wherever he plays. He's also a very vocal player who add energy to the team.
Zak Jones: He's my number 1 run and carry choice. With Lloyd and Mills moving to the midfield, Zak would be the one to go back in defence. He's provided a lot of zip coming out defence when he's played there. He would make a good combo with Aliir as 2 dangerous runners from out backline.


Waiting in the Wings:


Harry Marsh: He should be able to hold down a spot in defense. If he's good enough, he could allow Rampe or Newman to spend more time through the midfield. Harry has good pace and is a powerful kick. He's been a slow but steady developer, so it's hard to know where his ceiling is.
Colin O'Riordan: I really like his game. Is solid in all aspects of the game. He seems a certainty to become a very good AFL player.
Jack Maibaum: Looks to be an excellent KPD prospect, who can also play forward. He will probably continue to develop in the NEAFL this year. Maybe will get a game or two. He's a backup for KPD if Talia fails to make it, but can also be the one that allows Aliir to take on a role outside of defence.
Alex Johnson: I'm hopeful that he will make a full recovery and follow the path of Dan Menzel and regain the form he once had. It's hard to predict what will happen, but will be a real bonus if he can make a full recovery.
Toby Pink: He's showing good signs as a key forward. A KPF is probably the toughest position to succeed in and it's a big step up from the NEAFL to the AFL, but he looks good enough to be a key defender or a ruckman, both positions he has played as a junior. He would be 'my kind of ruckman' in that he can compete in the ruck, has good pace and can be make an impact around the ground.


There you have it. The sooner we start the better. I think we have the personnel to take us forward for many years to come.

I noticed Mills was copping a fair bit physical stuff off the ball on Saturday.

[The Big Cat]

In our successful years we've looked at the team selection each week and read "NO CHANGE". This year for various reasons its been at least four changes per week.(9 or 10 from the GF last year) How can you build a well-oiled machine when crucial components are missing or the new parts are not run-in yet. Remember in 2005 we went for months without a change and the only change from about Round 18 was Bevo for Vogels. This year we have used 34 players! In our good years we wouldn't have used more than 30 in a season.

[rojo]

I agree with this. Adelaide is a great case of how to rebuild a team under extreme adversity. For various reasons they have lost some great players over the past few years, including Tippett (who was highly rated at the time), Phil Davis, Jack Gunston and Dangerfield. They lost their best kicker out of defence in Jaensch, I think due to concussion. Andy Otten, a slow but reliable defender was out for the better part of 2 or 3 years. They lost top draft picks for 2 years due to the Tippett fiasco. Yet they find themselves at the top of the table, the best team in footy atm.

Of course they drafted and traded well, picking up some very good late and rookie draft picks. Think Rory Laird and Atkins. The played Jake Lever from the first year even though he was badly outsized for a defender at the time. They persisted with Kyle Hartigan, who had many poor games over several years, but now he's a very solid defender.

We need to find our core defensive unit of the future by the second half of this year. As noted in the quoted post, we need to have a defensive unit that can move the ball out of defence efficiently. It can be done by efficient kicking or run and carry. Usually a combination of both is best. It takes time to get a back six to work well together as a unit, so we can't begin soon enough.

Who goes out:

Reg: He's simply too slow for a modern defence. He plays well enough against the old time full forward who tries to wrestle for a contested mark, but there aren't that many of those around any more. Reg is contracted through next year. The best thing would be for him to retire this year and we give him a coaching role to compensate for his lost salary.
Jake Lloyd: He's been great this year, but is not physical enough for a role in defense. We should play to his strength, which is a link up midfielder who runs hard and to the right spots, makes good decisions, and uses the ball well. He's really our replacement for Macca.
Callum Mills: He's good enough to play anywhere, but teams are finding out that he can be exploited physically. He's tough, but too young to be playing as a man on man defender. It's a waste not playing him in the midfield where he can get lots of ball, because he uses it well. Along with Lloyd, our outside game should be much improved.
Harry Cunningham: Is too soft for a defensive role and doesn't use his pace enough, his best asset. Harry can play a half forward role now that he's willing to tackle, but is probably not in our best 22.


Who stays or comes in:

Rampe: Yes, we really miss him. He's become the heart and soul of our defence. What can we do. He's injured. Things should get a lot better when he returns.
Smith: He hasn't had a great year so far, but he's still our best lock down small defender. He's far too young to be at the end of his career. There's not much we can do but hope he finds his best form again. We don't have a natural replacement for him. I was thinking that we could develop Fisher or Ronke into the next small defender. I would even give Florent a shot. He's very evasive, has pace and good skills.
Newman: Is one of the best kicks at the Swans. He can take the kick ins. He's quicker than he appears, usually preferring to use his ability to release a handball or kick the ball accurately even under pressure. He should improve with AFL experience.
Michael Talia: The Reg replacement. He should be a solid fullback. He's got the size and strength, is a decent kick and is not afraid to take the game on. He's 24 yo, but has only played 31 games. He needs to get a good run of games to develop.
Lewis Melican: He's in the side now and hope he stays there. He's quick for a defender, makes quick decisions and kicks well on both sides of his body. At only 20 yo, he could be one of the best key defenders in the game.
Aliir: A unique player. I would really like to see him playing through the midfield in due course, but let's get him settled in as a defender first. He will make mistakes, but he's a dynamic player that can hurt other sides with his marking, kicking and run and carry. Is great a ground level for such a big guy. He needs to smooth out the rough parts of his game, but is real weapon wherever he plays. He's also a very vocal player who add energy to the team.
Zak Jones: He's my number 1 run and carry choice. With Lloyd and Mills moving to the midfield, Zak would be the one to go back in defence. He's provided a lot of zip coming out defence when he's played there. He would make a good combo with Aliir as 2 dangerous runners from out backline.


Waiting in the Wings:


Harry Marsh: He should be able to hold down a spot in defense. If he's good enough, he could allow Rampe or Newman to spend more time through the midfield. Harry has good pace and is a powerful kick. He's been a slow but steady developer, so it's hard to know where his ceiling is.
Colin O'Riordan: I really like his game. Is solid in all aspects of the game. He seems a certainty to become a very good AFL player.
Jack Maibaum: Looks to be an excellent KPD prospect, who can also play forward. He will probably continue to develop in the NEAFL this year. Maybe will get a game or two. He's a backup for KPD if Talia fails to make it, but can also be the one that allows Aliir to take on a role outside of defence.
Alex Johnson: I'm hopeful that he will make a full recovery and follow the path of Dan Menzel and regain the form he once had. It's hard to predict what will happen, but will be a real bonus if he can make a full recovery.
Toby Pink: He's showing good signs as a key forward. A KPF is probably the toughest position to succeed in and it's a big step up from the NEAFL to the AFL, but he looks good enough to be a key defender or a ruckman, both positions he has played as a junior. He would be 'my kind of ruckman' in that he can compete in the ruck, has good pace and can be make an impact around the ground.


There you have it. The sooner we start the better. I think we have the personnel to take us forward for many years to come.

I like nearly all of the above. However, what can we make of the current seeming loss of mojo and lack of leadership, grit and determination. It was curious that Heeney remarked on the silence out on the field as being a weird experience for him. Of our leadership group Macca, Kizza and Rampe are out at the moment but who of Kennedy, Hanners, Reg, Smithie and Parks are stepping up? We have no one stepping up to the mark as yet - six games in. On Access All Areas (AFl website) it was brought up that Mills who poked his head up last week, was targeted and knocked around all game this week with little intervention and or protection given by his teammates. Going forward this lack of on-field presence is concerning. Even the 'aura' of Buddy seems to be dimming!

[Kirby]

Hi, I just read somewhere there was an altercation in the rooms after last year's GF. Any truth to this? Is there harmony in the ranks now?

[Markwebbos]

Hi, I just read somewhere there was an altercation in the rooms after last year's GF. Any truth to this? Is there harmony in the ranks now?

I reckon this rumour should have its own thread! Was it on BF?

[ScottH]

Hi, I just read somewhere there was an altercation in the rooms after last year's GF. Any truth to this? Is there harmony in the ranks now?

I heard this as well. It was quashed by someone I know who was in the rooms after the game, but you never know.

[dimelb]

...

Who stays or comes in:

Rampe: Yes, we really miss him. He's become the heart and soul of our defence. What can we do. He's injured. Things should get a lot better when he returns.
Smith: He hasn't had a great year so far, but he's still our best lock down small defender. He's far too young to be at the end of his career. There's not much we can do but hope he finds his best form again. We don't have a natural replacement for him. I was thinking that we could develop Fisher or Ronke into the next small defender. I would even give Florent a shot. He's very evasive, has pace and good skills.
Newman: Is one of the best kicks at the Swans. He can take the kick ins. He's quicker than he appears, usually preferring to use his ability to release a handball or kick the ball accurately even under pressure. He should improve with AFL experience.
Michael Talia: The Reg replacement. He should be a solid fullback. He's got the size and strength, is a decent kick and is not afraid to take the game on. He's 24 yo, but has only played 31 games. He needs to get a good run of games to develop.
Lewis Melican: He's in the side now and hope he stays there. He's quick for a defender, makes quick decisions and kicks well on both sides of his body. At only 20 yo, he could be one of the best key defenders in the game.
Aliir: A unique player. I would really like to see him playing through the midfield in due course, but let's get him settled in as a defender first. He will make mistakes, but he's a dynamic player that can hurt other sides with his marking, kicking and run and carry. Is great a ground level for such a big guy. He needs to smooth out the rough parts of his game, but is real weapon wherever he plays. He's also a very vocal player who add energy to the team.
Zak Jones: He's my number 1 run and carry choice. With Lloyd and Mills moving to the midfield, Zak would be the one to go back in defence. He's provided a lot of zip coming out defence when he's played there. He would make a good combo with Aliir as 2 dangerous runners from out backline.


Waiting in the Wings:


Harry Marsh: He should be able to hold down a spot in defense. If he's good enough, he could allow Rampe or Newman to spend more time through the midfield. Harry has good pace and is a powerful kick. He's been a slow but steady developer, so it's hard to know where his ceiling is.
Colin O'Riordan: I really like his game. Is solid in all aspects of the game. He seems a certainty to become a very good AFL player.
Jack Maibaum: Looks to be an excellent KPD prospect, who can also play forward. He will probably continue to develop in the NEAFL this year. Maybe will get a game or two. He's a backup for KPD if Talia fails to make it, but can also be the one that allows Aliir to take on a role outside of defence.
Alex Johnson: I'm hopeful that he will make a full recovery and follow the path of Dan Menzel and regain the form he once had. It's hard to predict what will happen, but will be a real bonus if he can make a full recovery.
Toby Pink: He's showing good signs as a key forward. A KPF is probably the toughest position to succeed in and it's a big step up from the NEAFL to the AFL, but he looks good enough to be a key defender or a ruckman, both positions he has played as a junior. He would be 'my kind of ruckman' in that he can compete in the ruck, has good pace and can be make an impact around the ground.


There you have it. The sooner we start the better. I think we have the personnel to take us forward for many years to come.

I agree with just about everything you say here Ludwig, but the thought that crossed my mind was "Waiting in the Wings: ...Harry Marsh"

I hadn't thought about it, and I know you see him developing as a defender, but I wonder how he'd go, with those attributes you mention, on a wing. Maybe he could rotate between positions, but I'd like to see him get the chance at using his speed and above-average boot to feed our forwards who at present are starved and wandering too far upfield looking for a feed.

[crackedactor]

I hope the GF altercation was untrue but you never know for sure. The rumour is Tippett had a punch on with Mcglynn (I believe) on a comment Tippett made about going on Holidays which upset several players. Things are still tense and that is why Tippett will not be playing for a few weeks. When a team plays like it did last week, these rumours WILL start.!

[Jonesy94]

I hope the GF altercation was untrue but you never know for sure. The rumour is Tippett had a punch on with Mcglynn (I believe) on a comment Tippett made about going on Holidays which upset several players. Things are still tense and that is why Tippett will not be playing for a few weeks. When a team plays like it did last week, these rumours WILL start.!

Yeah thats what I heard. But I heard it was a semi all in, like a few other players wanted to have a crack at tippett and some of the coaching staff had to intervene and stop it.

I have been amongst bad blood at work with some dev teams and tbh on Saturday it reminded me a lot of the times i have been in those environments where no one talks to each other, people do what they have to do get the job done and then go home at the end of the day. No bonding and theres tension with lots of little groups gossiping and bitching. Always ended effecting the environment with it boiling over.

I can understand if some of the players are still broken from 2 GF and i can understand injury, but a team does not go from having a close bond on and off the field, playing a GF with an inexperienced side compared to our last GF a few years earlier to just being an empty carcass in less than 6 months.

Kirk must be working overtime trying to keep the peace if @@@@s bad.

[neilfws]

I thought this article had some interesting snippets of information:

Josh Kennedy: Sydney Swans failed to protect Callum Mills against Carlton (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/josh-kennedy-sydney-swans-failed-to-protect-callum-mills-against-carlton-20170502-gvxkjz.html)

For example:


as coach John Longmire had explained to Kennedy and his predecessors Kieren Jack and Jarrad McVeigh last December when he summoned the three to a meeting and delivered the surprising news that he was changing the captaincy.

I'd be surprised if that's how it happened. I'd have thought player discussion and voting were the normal way. Still, I get a general sense of discontent and internal issues from the article.

[aardvark]

No excuses for Swans: Richards (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/05/03/no-excuses-for-swans-richards/)

Teddy has a bit to say.....

[Meg]

No excuses for Swans: Richards (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/05/03/no-excuses-for-swans-richards/)

Teddy has a bit to say.....

Ted says "there is no excuse" for the poor start to the season - and then gives several very rational reasons.

It's just a matter of language but makes a good headline.

[Markwebbos]

I thought this article had some interesting snippets of information:

Josh Kennedy: Sydney Swans failed to protect Callum Mills against Carlton (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/josh-kennedy-sydney-swans-failed-to-protect-callum-mills-against-carlton-20170502-gvxkjz.html)

I get a general sense of discontent and internal issues from the article.

I strongly believe that the discontent and internal issues are largely a product of being 0-6 rather than the other way round. The article alludes to this:

'The three-time and reigning club champion, fresh from an unscheduled meeting with his coaches on Tuesday ... Kennedy ... admitted that the mounting losses had battered the confidence of the Swans' on-field leaders and that malaise had spread across the team. "The guys that have carried us for a long period of time are down on confidence," he said... "The difficult thing is when you can see guys trying really hard and not finding any solution"'

[Meg]

I strongly believe that the discontent and internal issues are largely a product of being 0-6 rather than the other way round. The article alludes to this'

I agree. I think it is a misreading of that article to think it suggests otherwise. If anything, it is an article about Kennedy reflecting on his evolving leadership style and on his and the team's need to be more responsible and cohesive.

[Ludwig]

I feel that the loss of confidence in the players this year is mainly due to not having Tom Derickx around anymore.

First, the boys are worried who the new whipping boy will be now that Tom is not with the club.

Second, the players felt that even if they couldn't have a beautiful new girlfriend every week, they were still much better football players, and went out every week to prove this point. Now they have nothing to prove.

[stevoswan]

I feel that the loss of confidence in the players this year is mainly due to not having Tom Derickx around anymore.

First, the boys are worried who the new whipping boy will be now that Tom is not with the club.

Second, the players felt that even if they couldn't have a beautiful new girlfriend every week, they were still much better football players, and went out every week to prove this point. Now they have nothing to prove.

:rofl

[dimelb]

Paul Roos has an idea about our problems:

Former Sydney Swans coach Paul Roos links decline to Buddy Franklin's signing (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/former-sydney-swans-coach-paul-roos-links-decline-to-buddy-franklins-signing-20170505-gvyzpj.html)

[Faunac8]

Paul Roos has an idea about our problems:

Former Sydney Swans coach Paul Roos links decline to Buddy Franklin's signing (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/former-sydney-swans-coach-paul-roos-links-decline-to-buddy-franklins-signing-20170505-gvyzpj.html)
We all have ideas about our decline but saying so after the decline isn't insightful it's almost spiteful. Predict a decline and you deserve to be respected saying I told you so or stating the obvious is cheap publicity. I would have hoped a genuine Swans legend would be more circumspect

[Faunac8]

Show me any tipster who picked our 2017 demise and the resulting 0-6 and I will gladly follow their footy tips for the rest of the season even if they tip against us. ??

[Jonesy94]

Paul Roos has an idea about our problems:

Former Sydney Swans coach Paul Roos links decline to Buddy Franklin's signing (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/former-sydney-swans-coach-paul-roos-links-decline-to-buddy-franklins-signing-20170505-gvyzpj.html)

Looks like Roos has fallen into the "gotcha" thinking that seems to be clouding all the footy experts from the deep south. Its all Franklins fault now because when we signed him, all the bozos with hate boners where predicting our downfall and they were proven wrong with 2 GF appearances and a consistent top 4 finish since he arrived.

But now at 0-6..yeah the experts knew all along.

Disappointed in Roos, thought he might have known better, but you know he comes across as a bit bitter cause he was one of the victims of buddy with his cushy job at the academy ending. Poor Roosy had to pick up his family and move interstate because he couldn't get a million $ gig to pay for his Sydney lifestyle. The respect for Roos has dwindled to almost nothing since he moved to melbourne and "waved his magic wand" at the demons and in the process reverted back to the VFL mentality.

[Hotpotato]

I've been wondering why another Swans star , an old mate of Roosey's has been punted from Fox : Barry Hall .

[liz]

Looks like Roos has fallen into the "gotcha" thinking that seems to be clouding all the footy experts from the deep south. Its all Franklins fault now because when we signed him, all the bozos with hate boners where predicting our downfall and they were proven wrong with 2 GF appearances and a consistent top 4 finish since he arrived.

But now at 0-6..yeah the experts knew all along.

Disappointed in Roos, thought he might have known better, but you know he comes across as a bit bitter cause he was one of the victims of buddy with his cushy job at the academy ending. Poor Roosy had to pick up his family and move interstate because he couldn't get a million $ gig to pay for his Sydney lifestyle. The respect for Roos has dwindled to almost nothing since he moved to melbourne and "waved his magic wand" at the demons and in the process reverted back to the VFL mentality.

Not sure about the bitterness part. Generally he's been speaking quite positively about the club (and I think he's back living in Sydney now - I passed him a few weeks ago on the Sydney coastal path near Bronte - he was out for a run; I was out for a walk!)

But I do think the view he's put forward is trite and tired, and reeks of someone guessing "the obvious" from outside the club. It's convenient for people to use to "explain". Of course, had Kennedy, Parker and Hanners been playing anywhere close to their "normal" form of the last few years, the club wouldn't be sitting on the bottom of the ladder, winless. I have no idea why their form has dropped off (other than Parker's lack of a pre-season) but I don't think it's got anything to do with Buddy's contract (even indirectly, ie the loss of Mitchell).

[Jonesy94]

Not sure about the bitterness part. Generally he's been speaking quite positively about the club (and I think he's back living in Sydney now - I passed him a few weeks ago on the Sydney coastal path near Bronte - he was out for a run; I was out for a walk!)

But I do think the view he's put forward is trite and tired, and reeks of someone guessing "the obvious" from outside the club. It's convenient for people to use to "explain". Of course, had Kennedy, Parker and Hanners been playing anywhere close to their "normal" form of the last few years, the club wouldn't be sitting on the bottom of the ladder, winless. I have no idea why their form has dropped off (other than Parker's lack of a pre-season) but I don't think it's got anything to do with Buddy's contract (even indirectly, ie the loss of Mitchell).

Perhaps he comes back and checks on his negatively geared property.

Its just the sheer arrogance to wait for this type of scenario as a gotcha moment. 6 rounds ago we were tipped to be premiers by the experts, but now?

Anyone who attends training, have you seen anything in the body language of players to suggest theres a rift? Like players who in the past were close now just give each other a passing glance? There are plenty of examples of teams that have gone to @@@@ because 1 or 2 players were creating a rift amongst the playing group. I hope this is not the case but i keep going back to last weekend and how there was no talk amongst the players and apart from some excited after goal celebrations from a few younger players the seniors looked over it.

[Vonsteinman]

I think you might be getting a bit caught up in some sensationalist and, to be honest, pretty shoddy journalism.

What Roos says is entirely reasonable - not groundbreaking or original perhaps but not off the mark either.

He's making a broader observation of the way the game is going in one sense, but his observations of the Swans' situation is just about bang on.

If the squad was fully fit, they'd be competitive. Short or interrupted pre-seasons to around a third of the list have meant this is not the case. So the list is being exposed as there are high levels of expectation on young, inexperienced players to play roles that they are not yet ready for.

He does go on to say that he believes the Swans are still a good show to make finals if they get the playing list right. That's not, to my mind, a cheap shot.

[Thunder Shaker]

Anyone who attends training, have you seen anything in the body language of players to suggest theres a rift? Like players who in the past were close now just give each other a passing glance? There are plenty of examples of teams that have gone to @@@@ because 1 or 2 players were creating a rift amongst the playing group. I hope this is not the case but i keep going back to last weekend and how there was no talk amongst the players and apart from some excited after goal celebrations from a few younger players the seniors looked over it.
I would guess that the senior players are not used to handling the situation of being 0-5 and 0-6. How would they react if they haven't been there before? The last time we started a season with four losses was 1993. Several players on our list weren't even born then. Over half the players on our list weren't on the list when we last missed the finals in 2009. Everyone is used to winning regularly. Now that we have had injury problems and a lack of form, the wins are not coming like they used to and they are not used to this. The confidence isn't there.

Fortunately, we have Brisbane at home this week and they have also had their share of injuries, so we are a good chance to collect our first win this weekend. Once they collect one win, the confidence should return. With the Saints and North to come in the next couple of weeks, we're going to need it after what they just did to the top two sides.

[Billericay]

I would guess that the senior players are not used to handling the situation of being 0-5 and 0-6. How would they react if they haven't been there before? The last time we started a season with four losses was 1993. Several players on our list weren't even born then. Over half the players on our list weren't on the list when we last missed the finals in 2009. Everyone is used to winning regularly. Now that we have had injury problems and a lack of form, the wins are not coming like they used to and they are not used to this. The confidence isn't there.

Fortunately, we have Brisbane at home this week and they have also had their share of injuries, so we are a good chance to collect our first win this weekend. Once they collect one win, the confidence should return. With the Saints and North to come in the next couple of weeks, we're going to need it after what they just did to the top two sides.

Agree that confidence is a massive part of it. And we HAVE to beat Brisbane if we are to have any chance against the two form sides - Norf and Saints.

I hope we aren't the Port Adelaide of 2017?

[swanwolf]

Hi, I just read somewhere there was an altercation in the rooms after last year's GF. Any truth to this? Is there harmony in the ranks now?

I heard this as well. It was quashed by someone I know who was in the rooms after the game, but you never know.

Gee Reg, you could at least pretend. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4Hr6r0g8q0) :boxing:

[Debster1]

I am sick to death of people talking about internal division when there is absolutely nothing to point to this except a team totally devoid of confidence and stability of personal. In 6 games we have played 34 players and that's without McVeigh and Johnson who are automatic ins when fit. Try and get system with that many changes

Thank goodness someone gets it!


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