2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Mark26]

Re Himmelberg.....I often think there is an unspoken arrangement between us and the Giants to not move on
each other's players.

Jed Lamb also went to the Giants before landing at the Blues.

GWS don't have an issue taking our players. We should reciprocate if the opportunity arises.

[Captain]

That's interesting if true. Deal with the Crows...Hayward and 3 for Pick 1.

That is some wishful thinking!

[Markwebbos]

That is some wishful thinking!

+1

[Jimitron5000]

That is some wishful thinking!

I've been taking lessons from Adrian Dodoro, although he would probably demand Pick 1 for Hayward and wouldn't put pick 3 on the table.

[KTigers]

Jed Lamb also went to the Giants before landing at the Blues.

GWS don't have an issue taking our players. We should reciprocate if the opportunity arises.

Lamb played 12 games for us in 2013 and averaged 10 touches a game so I wouldn't have thought he was a deal
breaker. I thought it was widely considered Mumford was pushed out due to salary cap issues when Buddy came
in. Lamb left when Mumford did at the end of the '13 season. That was seven years ago. I don't think there has
been much movement between the two teams since then.

[Mark26]

I've been taking lessons from Adrian Dodoro, although he would probably demand Pick 1 for Hayward and wouldn't put pick 3 on the table.

You're not the only one. Economists are now discussing emerging pockets of the Dodoro effect after the federal budget announcement. They're responding to residents having an overinflated perception of one's assets while puckering up tighter than a Covid hoarder using both sides of their toilet paper.

[Auntie.Gerald]

efficient selection by definition, means someone is holding a loss somewhere !

[Mark26]

Lamb played 12 games for us in 2013 and averaged 10 touches a game so I wouldn't have thought he was a deal
breaker. I thought it was widely considered Mumford was pushed out due to salary cap issues when Buddy came
in. Lamb left when Mumford did at the end of the '13 season. That was seven years ago. I don't think there has
been much movement between the two teams since then.

Fair enough. But wasn't he a first round pick for us? It irked me then and still does now. I can't see it happening because I'm assuming we don't have the salary cap space, but I'd love to nab Cameron from them somehow.

[Markwebbos]

It is strange that not one Giants player has ever come to the Swans.

This year feels like one where that might change, due to the mini exodus underway.

[KTigers]

Fair enough. But wasn't he a first round pick for us? It irked me then and still does now. I can't see it happening because I'm assuming we don't have the salary cap space, but I'd love to nab Cameron from them somehow.

He wouldn't have to move his boat I guess. Maybe the club hierarchy could pull a few strings down at Rushcutters
marina and get him a nice mooring only a ten minute drive from training...

[Ralph Dawg]

It is strange that not one Giants player has ever come to the Swans.

This year feels like one where that might change, due to the mini exodus underway.
You're forgetting when we traded in the GWS gun Shaun Edwards.

[Markwebbos]

You're forgetting when we traded in the GWS gun Shaun Edwards.

I had to have a quick look on Wikipedia to refresh my memory about his illustrious non-career with the Swans. And it turns out we drafted him as a rookie after he was delisted by the Bombers (who took him from GW$).

To be more precise, I meant not one player has come to the Swans directly from the Giants. Have I missed anyone?

[dimelb]

Fair enough. But wasn't he a first round pick for us? It irked me then and still does now. I can't see it happening because I'm assuming we don't have the salary cap space, but I'd love to nab Cameron from them somehow.

Good kick but a surly customer who I wouldn't like to see in the Swans.

[MattW]

Good kick but a surly customer who I wouldn't like to see in the Swans.

Yep; doesn't look like he's coming anyway.

[Markwebbos]

How about Brander at WCE, not getting a game. Or the potentially high risk, high reward Jesse Hogan at Freo. Reports that they are into Ben Brown and he could be squeezed out (although they smell dodgy to me)

[Legs Akimbo]

How about Brander at WCE, not getting a game. Or the potentially high risk, high reward Jesse Hogan at Freo. Reports that they are into Ben Brown and he could be squeezed out (although they smell dodgy to me)

Jesse Hogan clearly has some behavioural issues but as a player he could be the best option of the lot. A talented Key Position Player who might be able to turn it around in the right peer group and support environment.

[gloveski]

Jesse Hogan clearly has some behavioural issues but as a player he could be the best option of the lot. A talented Key Position Player who might be able to turn it around in the right peer group and support environment.

Definitely the pick of the lot and also has the potential to run through the midfield. Hi risk high reward


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[KSAS]

FWIW Andy Mahr on SEN this afternoon read out an extensive list of players who might be on the move and the clubs who are linked with them. This list was apparently emailed to Andy from a prominent AFL official who compiled the list. It was too long a list that he read out for me to remember all the players & linked clubs, but from a Swans perspective it was mentioned we're linked to Jacob Townsend (Rich), Alex Neal-Bullen (Melb) & Mason Wood (NM - who is a DFA i think?). Other clubs were linked to these players as well. It also mentioned Pruess is also being courted by a couple of Melb based clubs in addition with us & GWS (i mentioned Hawthorn being one interested club in earlier post.

[gloveski]

FWIW Andy Mahr on SEN this afternoon read out an extensive list of players who might be on the move and the clubs who are linked with them. This list was apparently emailed to Andy from a prominent AFL official who compiled the list. It was too long a list that he read out for me to remember all the players & linked clubs, but from a Swans perspective it was mentioned we're linked to Jacob Townsend (Rich), Alex Neal-Bullen (Melb) & Mason Wood (NM - who is a DFA i think?). Other clubs were linked to these players as well. It also mentioned Pruess is also being courted by a couple of Melb based clubs in addition with us & GWS (i mentioned Hawthorn being one interested club in earlier post.

We were linked to Mason Wood a few years back he has treaded water for a few years now and I really rate Neal-Bullen so wouldn’t mind a crack at him . Townsend would be a no from me


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[ugg]

Might indeed be a list from a couple of years ago considering that Townsend has left Richmond and is now playing for Essendon

[Aaron]

Unless Will Hayward will be traded out, these targets do not make a lot of sense to me

[707]

On twitter someone posted that they had heard a rumour that Will Hayward is looking to return to SA .

If he is then Ollie Florent is going as well, joined at the hip! Maybe it's both of them for Crows pick 8

[Scottee]

It is strange that not one Giants player has ever come to the Swans.

This year feels like one where that might change, due to the mini exodus underway.Harry C was a GWS selection.

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[giant]

I had to have a quick look on Wikipedia to refresh my memory about his illustrious non-career with the Swans. And it turns out we drafted him as a rookie after he was delisted by the Bombers (who took him from GW$).

To be more precise, I meant not one player has come to the Swans directly from the Giants. Have I missed anyone?

Harry "Richie" C came out of their Academy I believe. Fab as he is, it doesn't compare to the riches that the larger Melbourne clubs have stripped out of the expansion clubs.

[KSAS]

Might indeed be a list from a couple of years ago considering that Townsend has left Richmond and is now playing for Essendon

My bad, i'd forgotten Townsend is at Essendon

- - - Updated - - -

List also mentioned Melbourne & Norf are sniffing Jayden Stephenson as Pies need to do salary dump in order to re-sign DeGoey & Darcy Moore.

[giant]

On twitter someone posted that they had heard a rumour that Will Hayward is looking to return to SA .


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A Hayward family friend told me last year he was homesick and not happy with the way his injuries had been treated - a couple of weeks later he signed a contract extension...so who the hell knows I guess?

[Ralph Dawg]

FWIW Andy Mahr on SEN this afternoon read out an extensive list of players who might be on the move and the clubs who are linked with them. This list was apparently emailed to Andy from a prominent AFL official who compiled the list. It was too long a list that he read out for me to remember all the players & linked clubs, but from a Swans perspective it was mentioned we're linked to Jacob Townsend (Rich), Alex Neal-Bullen (Melb) & Mason Wood (NM - who is a DFA i think?). Other clubs were linked to these players as well. It also mentioned Pruess is also being courted by a couple of Melb based clubs in addition with us & GWS (i mentioned Hawthorn being one interested club in earlier post.
Of these, Jacob Townsend would be my pick. He would provide good forward pressure and knows his way around goals. If we could pick him up (or someone similar) for nothing, then trade out Hayward for a second rounder or Roble for a third rounder, the net result would be a positive for us.

- - - Updated - - -

Roble = Ronke

[The Runner]

We stole Buddy out of their back pocket. Then when they've had their player exodus, we've had no cap space (for top end talent) or the ability to trade players in for the mid tier value until recently. Highly unlikely there's any agreement after the animosity over Buddy.

Anyone who's watched Zak Jones first 7 quarters of finals footy at the Saints, will see we aren't missing out on much at all. Similar to Tom Mitchell - overhyped now at a Melbourne club.

[MattW]

We stole Buddy out of their back pocket. Then when they've had their player exodus, we've had no cap space (for top end talent) or the ability to trade players in for the mid tier value until recently. Highly unlikely there's any agreement after the animosity over Buddy.

Anyone who's watched Zak Jones first 7 quarters of finals footy at the Saints, will see we aren't missing out on much at all. Similar to Tom Mitchell - overhyped now at a Melbourne club.

Agree on the second par. Melbourne journalists hadn't paid attention to Jones until he played for St Kilda.

Nothing has changed - he rarely makes a winning impact in big games. Hanners still has class and poise, but I can't really blame us for how we played that hand.

[AB Swannie]

Of these, Jacob Townsend would be my pick. He would provide good forward pressure and knows his way around goals. If we could pick him up (or someone similar) for nothing, then trade out Hayward for a second rounder or Roble for a third rounder, the net result would be a positive for us.

- - - Updated - - -

Roble = Ronke

Sorry but no way is this an upgrade. Townsend is a 27 year old journeyman who struggled to play regularly for Essendon. He has kicked a career total of 41 goals. On the other hand, Hayward is 21, entering his prime and already has better stats than Townsend across the board.

[Nico]

Townsend can't get a game for the Injectors. No thanks.

[Mark26]

I don't want to lose Hayward either. I feel as though he was starting to play his way into form the second half of this season after being thrown in the backline. Lots of upside. And he has the longest contract at the moment. It says we see the upside and want him here long term.

[aardvark]

I'd be very surprised if we trade in anyone of note. We just need to have a good draft result and an injury free pre season.

[Aprilbr]

I tend to agree that we should avoid trading in journey men for the sake of it. Only exception is a ruck but I'm not keen on Hickey. Our recent record in trading in journey men is very average.

We are far better focusing on the Academy players and the draft. Once we have the list ready to take a step into finals (at least one year away) then we can go after a big name from elsewhere. Our Cap position may be looking better by then too!

[troyjones2525]

As someone posted earlier, the Sydney AFL are streaming their grand finals today on their Facebook page so we'll get to see Errol play in the seniors game for the Bulldogs.

Something I find interesting. I just watched the video on the Sydney AFL facebook page of the Phelan Medal count. Former Academy player Jake Bartholomaeus won the count with 16 votes and in 2nd place was Errol Gulden with 12 votes.

The interesting thing is that Braeden Campbell did not receive 1 vote in the entire count!

Now I am unsure if he played many games (or any) in the Premier League but if so, I find it a little strange that he is rated to be drafted way above Gulden even though Errol's consistent strong performances clearly outweigh his.

I'm thinking the old 'potential' factor is at play here as well as A LOT of the old height bias coming into play....

Even so, I'm happy to draft Errol at a discount as I think he's going to be a sensational AFL footballer if, and I mean IF, we let him loose!

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[Markwebbos]

The Hun is reporting that Daniher’s contract at Brisbane would not be enough to get the Bombers pick 7 as compo, only an end of first rounder.

It gets better. Brisbane has said that if the Bombers force them to trade they’ll walk away. Meaning JD would be forced to nominate for the PSD...

Where we hold pick 3...

Category: <span> </span> | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/essendon/afl-trade-news-star-defender-adam-saad-requests-trade-to-carlton/news-story/ce61f838a1d181e83f0a82955a682de6)

Also he’s keen to play more ruck and Lions plan to play him as a fwd.

I’m another article Hun says Geelong are prepared to trade Constable.

[111431]

As someone posted earlier, the Sydney AFL are streaming their grand finals today on their Facebook page so we'll get to see Errol play in the seniors game for the Bulldogs.

Something I find interesting. I just watched the video on the Sydney AFL facebook page of the Phelan Medal count. Former Academy player Jake Bartholomaeus won the count with 16 votes and in 2nd place was Errol Gulden with 12 votes.

The interesting thing is that Braeden Campbell did not receive 1 vote in the entire count!

Now I am unsure if he played many games (or any) in the Premier League but if so, I find it a little strange that he is rated to be drafted way above Gulden even though Errol's consistent strong performances clearly outweigh his.

I'm thinking the old 'potential' factor is at play here as well as A LOT of the old height bias coming into play....

Even so, I'm happy to draft Errol at a discount as I think he's going to be a sensational AFL footballer if, and I mean IF, we let him loose!

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I watched Errol play a game in Melb last year against the Sandringham Dragons. He was far and away the best player on the ground. He may be compact but he is quick and has plenty of tricks. I think he will be an excellent player

[i'm-uninformed2]

From what I’ve seen of the two:

* they have very similar qualities and skills, but the height factor clearly plays a part in their ratings as it’s the exception rather than the rule that smaller players do well at AFL level (I’m sure Gulden will succeed but it’s still a factor);
* it’s not that Gulden isn’t a terrific kick, but at the high end of the draft you need a feature to your game that is elite - and Campbell’s footskills are seen as just about best in class;
* we are still going to have to play a combined premium for the two, but they absolutely look worth it.

[Aprilbr]

It will be great to see Daniher go from Essendon for minor compensation to Essendon. It could not happen to a finer individual than Dodoro. The chances of Daniher ending up in the pre-season draft seem low but it would be a real bonus if that was the case.

[MattW]

The Hun is reporting that Daniher’s contract at Brisbane would not be enough to get the Bombers pick 7 as compo, only an end of first rounder.

It gets better. Brisbane has said that if the Bombers force them to trade they’ll walk away. Meaning JD would be forced to nominate for the PSD...

Where we hold pick 3...

Category: <span> </span> | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/essendon/afl-trade-news-star-defender-adam-saad-requests-trade-to-carlton/news-story/ce61f838a1d181e83f0a82955a682de6)

Also he’s keen to play more ruck and Lions plan to play him as a fwd.

I’m another article Hun says Geelong are prepared to trade Constable.

That's all interesting on Daniher, Mark - although wonder whether the 'walk away' line is posturing. Would Brisbane and Essendon really both walk away than get any semblance of what they want?

You'd think we'd be happy to accommodate any ruck desire. The last game of the season shows how he looks when he plays up the ground: Check out Joe Daniher's Highlights from ESS v MELB, Rd 18 2020
https://afl.app.link/DzBcqjAvsab.

But this leads me back to wondering why we fell away weeks ago and his nominated club is Brisbane, because it goes to whether we're even an option if he goes to the PSD. I'm guessing we are not offering as much cash. Would he still be interested in playing for us, on lesser terms?

[Ralph Dawg]

Sorry but no way is this an upgrade. Townsend is a 27 year old journeyman who struggled to play regularly for Essendon. He has kicked a career total of 41 goals. On the other hand, Hayward is 21, entering his prime and already has better stats than Townsend across the board.
Sorry, I should've put that comment in the context of him potentially leaving. As a direct one for one swap, Wilbur has way more upside than any of the 3 players listed that we are interested in.

But if he were to go, and we could extract a second rounder for him and a solid enough replacement, then that would be more than acceptable, especially if we used the pick to draft in someone like Preuss or to stop us going into deficit 2021.

[Ralph Dawg]

Realistically, if we are to make any significant moves beyond using 3 and getting Campbell and Gulden, we will need to let go of some of our up and coming players. Some names that come to mind would be Wilbur, Ollie, Melican or Aliir.

My preference would be to keep any player who is best 22 (or potential to be), trade in competent players who don't cost the earth but have enough upside and use the draft. If someone (contracted) wants out, then investigate the option but only let go for a deal that benefits us.

[Markwebbos]

That's all interesting on Daniher, Mark - although wonder whether the 'walk away' line is posturing. Would Brisbane and Essendon really both walk away than get any semblance of what they want?

You'd think we'd be happy to accommodate any ruck desire. The last game of the season shows how he looks when he plays up the ground: Check out Joe Daniher's Highlights from ESS v MELB, Rd 18 2020
https://afl.app.link/DzBcqjAvsab.

But this leads me back to wondering why we fell away weeks ago and his nominated club is Brisbane, because it goes to whether we're even an option if he goes to the PSD. I'm guessing we are not offering as much cash. Would he still be interested in playing for us, on lesser terms?

There’s definite posturing on both sides, but interesting to see Brisbane attempting to out-Dodo Dodoro.

According to the Hun, we are still interested in JD, but Brisbane’s advantages over us include: (1) their rehab team (and I believe he doesn’t think the groin op he had was that effective) (2) they are playing finals and we aren’t (3) enjoying spending time in QLD Hub (4) being just one of a number of forwards (including Hipwood) rather than THE marquee fwd.

He can put a price on his head but it sounds unlikely Brisbane would play that game.

I don’t know if he’d be prepared to come to the Swans if the Lions deal falls over. It wouldn’t cost us much in picks or $ so potentially a lower risk solution.

[troyjones2525]

Errol Gulden wearing #12 for the Bulldogs.

LIVE AFL Sydney Mens Premier Grand Final UNSW/ES vs Sydney Uni - YouTube (https://youtu.be/XcjJoEwaBOM)

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[liz]

From what I’ve seen of the two:

* they have very similar qualities and skills, but the height factor clearly plays a part in their ratings as it’s the exception rather than the rule that smaller players do well at AFL level (I’m sure Gulden will succeed but it’s still a factor);
* it’s not that Gulden isn’t a terrific kick, but at the high end of the draft you need a feature to your game that is elite - and Campbell’s footskills are seen as just about best in class;
* we are still going to have to play a combined premium for the two, but they absolutely look worth it.

I don't think they are especially similar. Campbell is a far smoother mover, quicker and a very classy kick. Gulden has all the attributes you look for in a larger inside midfielder (say a Luke Parker type) - he's not overly quick (though not a snail either), his kicking is OK without being great, but he gets to a huge number of contests, hunts the ball, reads the game well (which helps him get to so many contests when combined with strong endurance). He is also pretty good at applying pressure around the contest and at tackling.

I guess the question mark is how successfully he'll be able to apply those attributes at the very top level, when his natural opponents will all be much bigger, stronger and fitter than those he has played against at lower levels. I have little doubt (injury permitting) that he'll have some kind of AFL career, possibly a very good one. But there is a possibility he'll have to reinvent himself somewhat.

I saw Daniel play one U18 championships game where he was BOG by a significant margin. Were he 180cm tall, I think he'd be a gun onballer by now. His size has limited him though and he's created a role for himself playing across half-back (and very successfully too). His high footy IQ has helped him achieve that, but he'd probably be a more valuable player were he able to play an onball role.

I reckon Gulden has a similarly high footy IQ, which I why I am confident he'll find a role at AFL level. I'm just not sure what that role will be. It is also worth noting that, while Daniel is an obvious example of a highly talented player somewhat limited by his physical stature, Gulden is quite a bit bigger than Daniel so might not have to adapt to the same extent. A couple of weeks ago I saw a list of updated heights and weights of the Swans and Giants academy players, and he was listed at 176cm. So still a little on the small side for an inside mid, but not dramatically so.

[liz]

BTW, if anyone wants to watch the GF (which started a few mins ago) but doesn't "do" Facebook, here's a link to YouTube.

LIVE AFL Sydney Mens Premier Grand Final UNSW/ES vs Sydney Uni - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcjJoEwaBOM)

Gulden (Errol) has already scored the first goal for the Bulldogs, and Reinhardt (another ex-academy boy) has just added another.

[Steve]

I don't really see the point in us going after mediocre role players who have some experience - we've topped up already with OK depth players like Clarke, Taylor, Thurlow, Brand etc.

I'd only consider bringing anyone in who is:

- around the 21-25 age range (capable of stepping up straight away but also a long-term prospect)
- fills a major area of need (ruck, inside mid, key forward)
- genuinely seen as a player who is likely to be good enough to hold a spot in a top 4 team (hoping we can be that within a few years)

I'd prefer we went really hard for some of the talented youngsters being squeezed out of good teams due to lack of opportunities. We are up against the fact most of them are attracting offers to go home, but it could be a real Josh Kennedy opportunity for a player or two to come to us and their career take off.

[Ralph Dawg]

I don't think they are especially similar. Campbell is a far smoother mover, quicker and a very classy kick. Gulden has all the attributes you look for in a larger inside midfielder (say a Luke Parker type) - he's not overly quick (though not a snail either), his kicking is OK without being great, but he gets to a huge number of contests, hunts the ball, reads the game well (which helps him get to so many contests when combined with strong endurance). He is also pretty good at applying pressure around the contest and at tackling.

I guess the question mark is how successfully he'll be able to apply those attributes at the very top level, when his natural opponents will all be much bigger, stronger and fitter than those he has played against at lower levels. I have little doubt (injury permitting) that he'll have some kind of AFL career, possibly a very good one. But there is a possibility he'll have to reinvent himself somewhat.

I saw Daniel play one U18 championships game where he was BOG by a significant margin. Were he 180cm tall, I think he'd be a gun onballer by now. His size has limited him though and he's created a role for himself playing across half-back (and very successfully too). His high footy IQ has helped him achieve that, but he'd probably be a more valuable player were he able to play an onball role.

I reckon Gulden has a similarly high footy IQ, which I why I am confident he'll find a role at AFL level. I'm just not sure what that role will be. It is also worth noting that, while Daniel is an obvious example of a highly talented player somewhat limited by his physical stature, Gulden is quite a bit bigger than Daniel so might not have to adapt to the same extent. A couple of weeks ago I saw a list of updated heights and weights of the Swans and Giants academy players, and he was listed at 176cm. So still a little on the small side for an inside mid, but not dramatically so.
Lachie Neale is 178cm and 84kg. I don't think he has outright speed either but is tough as nails, uses the ball well and is very composed. There would be not too many arguments to him being recognised as one of the competition's premier midfielders. Let's hope Gulden can follow in another "shorty's" footsteps!

[707]

Lachie Neale is 178cm and 84kg. I don't think he has outright speed either but is tough as nails, uses the ball well and is very composed. There would be not too many arguments to him being recognised as one of the competition's premier midfielders. Let's hope Gulden can follow in another "shorty's" footsteps!

Is that the same Lachie Neale who is the raging Brownlow favourite? He has a 175cm team mate Dane Zorko who goes ok as well.

Caleb Daniel is 168cm so that is very short.

Errol now listed at 176cm means he is probably still growing. I'm just hoping he's not pushing up other clubs draft boards too much, we wouldn't want to have to match another first round bid if we've used pick 3 on a player. A problem for us is the number of FA that may gain first round compo picks pushing out the end point of the, damaging for us, first round to pick 23/24. That's a lot of players need to be selected before Gulden, particularly a s half the draft pool hasn't played this year.

FA compo picks to watch with trepidation are Brad Crouch, Daniher, Zac Williams, Aiden Corr and Jeremy Cameron

[gloveski]

It’s definitely a big chance that we go into a point deficit situation . But to have 2 great quality academy prospects come along this year I think it’s important they both end up on our list no matter what the risk . If we can grab a quality young gun before Campbell and Gulden happy days for me . There’s a bit of interest in Ronke so I would t mind betting we trade him out for a draft pick just for some added points


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[AB Swannie]

It is an interesting point regarding the definition of “first round” and how the variability of this can affect points deficits in different years. In a traditional draft, the first round would be the first 18 players selected. With compensation, as 707 correctly states, it could be somewhere around the first 25 players selected. It is significant because this is the range where Gulden is likely to fall. This year he may get selected at pick 24 and be considered a first rounder meaning any deficit comes off our first round next year. In other years he may still get selected at pick 24 but be comfortably within the second round.

It’s an inconsistency that I think the AFL should tighten and define the first round as the first 18 players selected.

I also think points should remain static once the draft starts. Clubs are gaining and losing points on a random basis whenever there is an academy, FS, or NGA bid.

[AB Swannie]

It’s definitely a big chance that we go into a point deficit situation . But to have 2 great quality academy prospects come along this year I think it’s important they both end up on our list no matter what the risk . If we can grab a quality young gun before Campbell and Gulden happy days for me . There’s a bit of interest in Ronke so I would t mind betting we trade him out for a draft pick just for some added points


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Agree. I’m sure the club has a number of contingencies in place to minimise the deficit. Pick 22 will definitely be traded for more points. Something like 22 to Collingwood for 34 & 38. I also agree that Ronke may net a couple of hundred points with a pick in the 50s coming our way.

The one thing for sure though is we won’t really know anything for some time. One thing our club is very good at is keeping their cards close to their chest.

[Nico]

It is an interesting point regarding the definition of “first round” and how the variability of this can affect points deficits in different years. In a traditional draft, the first round would be the first 18 players selected. With compensation, as 707 correctly states, it could be somewhere around the first 25 players selected. It is significant because this is the range where Gulden is likely to fall. This year he may get selected at pick 24 and be considered a first rounder meaning any deficit comes off our first round next year. In other years he may still get selected at pick 24 but be comfortably within the second round.

It’s an inconsistency that I think the AFL should tighten and define the first round as the first 18 players selected.

I also think points should remain static once the draft starts. Clubs are gaining and losing points on a random basis whenever there is an academy, FS, or NGA bid.

The AFL brought in the FA system to give flexibility for players to extend their careers etc.etc. If clubs can't negotiate a swap/trade then the player nominates for the draft. Frankly, I think this compensation pick is garbage. It waters down the equalisation theory in that clubs who finish down the ladder can be gazumped by a top club that has a lost a "rated" player. Yet these top clubs have been allowed to strip clubs such as GWS and Gold Coast of quality players. Let the market prevail.

Why should other clubs suffer a drop down the list for a club such as Essendon that has had a poor culture for a number of years. Daniher has played a few games over 2 seasons so how can he possibly be rated on his form 3 or more years ago. At best they should be given a round 3 pick that doesn't compromise the draft.

[MattW]

The AFL brought in the FA system to give flexibility for players to extend their careers etc.etc. If clubs can't negotiate a swap/trade then the player nominates for the draft. Frankly, I think this compensation pick is garbage. It waters down the equalisation theory in that clubs who finish down the ladder can be gazumped by a top club that has a lost a "rated" player. Yet these top clubs have been allowed to strip clubs such as GWS and Gold Coast of quality players. Let the market prevail.

Why should other clubs suffer a drop down the list for a club such as Essendon that has had a poor culture for a number of years. Daniher has played a few games over 2 seasons so how can he possibly be rated on his form 3 or more years ago. At best they should be given a round 3 pick that doesn't compromise the draft.

Agree - if the player's contract ends and he doesn't want to re-sign, why should the club be compensated?

[Auntie.Gerald]

picks 12 and 18 are approx the same points as pick 3

having say picks 12 / 18 / 22 / 54 / 56 may work better for us depending on what we want vs what another team wants with pick 3? The top 5 to 10 players are all interstate accept maybe Campbell?

Obviously we went the complete opposite with Stephens last year using pick5 but we might have other players in mind that make our list better with greater certainty via a few off seasons following them.........Stephens didnt just come in via year1 and blow away the competition like a Sam Walsh or a Rowell or a Bont etc. No doubt we expect Stephens to prosper but there are plenty of top 10 picks who dont.

what can we agree on? I am guessing that we all see enough class in Campbell and Gulden and being sydney stay at home boys we will no doubt draft them

1. Campbell
2. Gulden

What is up in the air is how much we want a pick in the top3 of the draft ??

ie is there a player that we really really really really want with the pick3 vs what we can achieve via a trade and or a later pick ?

Maybe there is a player between the age of 20-22yrs.... on a list that we seriously want to trade for ie with say a pick12 ? we may see this player as a much more convincing trajectory in peak performance and more ready for AFL 2021 after a few pre seasons of development? Swannie was a great example at the Pie of a later pick but by season 3 looked chalk and cheese to his draft.......or a Nat Fyfe pick 20 being a player that Freeo so wanted.

Then we pick up Campbell and Gulden with picks 18/22 and use the picks 54/56 to balance out a deficit if Campbell was picked up at say a pick 5?

Another club could also so desperately want pick 3 they may give up a pick 10 and 17 and or a serious player that is on the move as a trade?

[Thunder Shaker]

It is an interesting point regarding the definition of “first round” and how the variability of this can affect points deficits in different years. In a traditional draft, the first round would be the first 18 players selected. With compensation, as 707 correctly states, it could be somewhere around the first 25 players selected. It is significant because this is the range where Gulden is likely to fall. This year he may get selected at pick 24 and be considered a first rounder meaning any deficit comes off our first round next year. In other years he may still get selected at pick 24 but be comfortably within the second round.

I’m sure the club has a number of contingencies in place to minimise the deficit. Pick 22 will definitely be traded for more points. Something like 22 to Collingwood for 34 & 38. I also agree that Ronke may net a couple of hundred points with a pick in the 50s coming our way.
Assuming we used pick 3 and matched bids on Campbell (10) and Gulden (25), I calculated earlier that such a deficit would be on the order of 500 points (but it could be larger). As you correctly pointed out, the first round of the draft could go deep this year and it is plausible that Gulden could be recruited at the end of the first round. A first-round deficit would cost us roughly one draft place for every 100 points, something to avoid with 2021 predicted to be a strong draft.

Pick 36 is 502 points, so that should give an idea of what we need to get to ensure both players are drafted along with using pick 3 and avoiding a deficit.


The one thing for sure though is we won’t really know anything for some time. One thing our club is very good at is keeping their cards close to their chest.
Agreed - and I expect there would be side deals done, including contingencies involving live pick trading.

We haven't delisted anyone yet. To me that suggests we're going to try offering fringe players for late draft picks, with delisting to take place later in the trading period. We will need to free up about five list spots, maybe more depending on the list sizes.

We'll see how things unfold in time, but my personal preferences are:
1. Take pick 3 to the draft, possibly to draft a KPF.
2. Draft Campbell and Gulden.
3. Avoid a first-round points deficit for 2021.
4. Recruit a ruckman via trading.

[AB Swannie]

I could be wrong but from memory we don’t release details of delistings until after the Bob Skilton Medal so I wouldn’t read into that too much.

[Ralph Dawg]

One thing that hasn't been discussed here is the go home factor. Surely the club would assess for this when they interview potential draftees (and their families) and be pretty well honed in making an accurate assessment (process might have missed the mark with Elijah :( ).

This might in part explain the selection of Stephens over Serong, Flanders et al. Country Vic, boarding school in SA, very mature, supportive parents etc. I remember seeing an interview with Ollie and his mum and got a similar vibe.

So my point regarding 2020 draft with this in mind is what if the much talked about KPF's or highly rated mids are assessed as flight risks or not coping well away from home? What if the best player who is assessed as being the best overall fit looks to go in the middle / late first round? In that context, the club may elect to split pick 3. No point picking up a player who leaves in 2 years or is so unsettled by the move that they play like a busted.

[Scottee]

One thing that hasn't been discussed here is the go home factor. Surely the club would assess for this when they interview potential draftees (and their families) and be pretty well honed in making an accurate assessment (process might have missed the mark with Elijah :( ).

This might in part explain the selection of Stephens over Serong, Flanders et al. Country Vic, boarding school in SA, very mature, supportive parents etc. I remember seeing an interview with Ollie and his mum and got a similar vibe.

So my point regarding 2020 draft with this in mind is what if the much talked about KPF's or highly rated mids are assessed as flight risks or not coping well away from home? What if the best player who is assessed as being the best overall fit looks to go in the middle / late first round? In that context, the club may elect to split pick 3. No point picking up a player who leaves in 2 years or is so unsettled by the move that they play like a busted.Spot on Ralph. The ghf is the big one.

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[Ludwig]

picks 12 and 18 are approx the same points as pick 3

having say picks 12 / 18 / 22 / 54 / 56 may work better for us depending on what we want vs what another team wants with pick 3? The top 5 to 10 players are all interstate accept maybe Campbell?

Obviously we went the complete opposite with Stephens last year using pick5 but we might have other players in mind that make our list better with greater certainty via a few off seasons following them.........Stephens didnt just come in via year1 and blow away the competition like a Sam Walsh or a Rowell or a Bont etc. No doubt we expect Stephens to prosper but there are plenty of top 10 picks who dont.

what can we agree on? I am guessing that we all see enough class in Campbell and Gulden and being sydney stay at home boys we will no doubt draft them

1. Campbell
2. Gulden

What is up in the air is how much we want a pick in the top3 of the draft ??

ie is there a player that we really really really really want with the pick3 vs what we can achieve via a trade and or a later pick ?

Maybe there is a player between the age of 20-22yrs.... on a list that we seriously want to trade for ie with say a pick12 ? we may see this player as a much more convincing trajectory in peak performance and more ready for AFL 2021 after a few pre seasons of development? Swannie was a great example at the Pie of a later pick but by season 3 looked chalk and cheese to his draft.......or a Nat Fyfe pick 20 being a player that Freeo so wanted.

Then we pick up Campbell and Gulden with picks 18/22 and use the picks 54/56 to balance out a deficit if Campbell was picked up at say a pick 5?

Another club could also so desperately want pick 3 they may give up a pick 10 and 17 and or a serious player that is on the move as a trade?
There are a lot of good points in this post.

We shouldn't take pick 3 to the draft just because it's a historically rare event for us to get such a high draft pick. The history is irrelevant. If there's another formula that works better for us, given our needs, then we should try to go down that path. That might involve trading pick 3 for players and or lower picks.

If it's looking as though McDonald and Thilthorpe will be gone by pick 3, then there's a real incentive to trade down, get a lower rated KPP and extra points for bid matching. There have been some good KPPs taken in the late teens through the 30s in recent years, like Oscar Allen, Noah Balta and our own Tim McCartin.

There are many possible combinations that may work for us. A lot will depend on who we pick up before the draft.

[Melbourne_Blood]

There are a lot of good points in this post.

We shouldn't take pick 3 to the draft just because it's a historically rare event for us to get such a high draft pick. The history is irrelevant. If there's another formula that works better for us, given our needs, then we should try to go down that path. That might involve trading pick 3 for players and or lower picks.

If it's looking as though McDonald and Thilthorpe will be gone by pick 3, then there's a real incentive to trade down, get a lower rated KPP and extra points for bid matching. There have been some good KPPs taken in the late teens through the 30s in recent years, like Oscar Allen, Noah Balta and our own Tim McCartin.

There are many possible combinations that may work for us. A lot will depend on who we pick up before the draft.

If it’s for the purposes of trade then I wouldn’t mind us splitting pick 3, but I would prefer to keep and use it otherwise. There are quite a few bid matches to fall in the first round, a later first round pick is likely to be diluted a lot more then the pick 3 (4 after JUH ) you would think.


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[AB Swannie]

If it’s for the purposes of trade then I wouldn’t mind us splitting pick 3, but I would prefer to keep and use it otherwise. There are quite a few bid matches to fall in the first round, a later first round pick is likely to be diluted a lot more then the pick 3 (4 after JUH ) you would think.


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Agree. Pick 3 needs to net us a good player. My preference is to keep it and use it in the draft but if it allows us to grab an A grade player from another team then I’d be all for that too. However, if we are splitting it just to gain points then there is little point to that.

[Markwebbos]

Agree. Pick 3 needs to net us a good player. My preference is to keep it and use it in the draft but if it allows us to grab an A grade player from another team then I’d be all for that too. However, if we are splitting it just to gain points then there is little point to that.

+1

[Melbourne_Blood]

This article sums up our trade needs fairly well. I don’t see how bolstering our midfield through trade is a bad thing, even with the youngsters we have / will get. Not all are guaranteed to be the players they are touted to be. Some could also flourish in other positions. Stephens for example could become a Whitfield type half back I believe. Pace, endurance and lovely kick.

Trade wishlists: The ideal off-season targets for every AFL club (https://apple.news/ANwTQV2IPRb-OLBCL0tOsbg)


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[Ludwig]

If it’s for the purposes of trade then I wouldn’t mind us splitting pick 3, but I would prefer to keep and use it otherwise. There are quite a few bid matches to fall in the first round, a later first round pick is likely to be diluted a lot more then the pick 3 (4 after JUH ) you would think.

The dilution of later picks can always be factored in when calculating the value of a trade and suspect this will be the case. So it's not really an issue.

I agree with you that the prime purpose of trading pick 3 should be primarily for the purpose of recruiting a player from another club. I don't think at this point of the post-season, we need be too dogmatic about what we should do in the draft. Right now, all options are on the table. As the trade season progresses, those options will narrow.

[Steve]

picks 12 and 18 are approx the same points as pick 3

having say picks 12 / 18 / 22 / 54 / 56 may work better for us depending on what we want vs what another team wants with pick 3? The top 5 to 10 players are all interstate accept maybe Campbell?

...

Then we pick up Campbell and Gulden with picks 18/22 and use the picks 54/56 to balance out a deficit if Campbell was picked up at say a pick 5?

Another club could also so desperately want pick 3 they may give up a pick 10 and 17 and or a serious player that is on the move as a trade?

The only scenario I would entertain re: trading down would be a few places if a) we thought it would still get a pick in before a bid on Campbell, and b) we thought the player we would have taken at 3 would be available a few spots later anyway (or there were a handful of players we genuinely would be happy to have any of etc).

In terms of the draft I would have thought we'd only be likely to take 3 players in any case - there will be reduced list sizes, and taking a punt with later draft picks on players not seen since 2019 means giving another year to existing youngsters on our list is a better option anyway.

I understand the caution re: going into deficit next year, but weighing up that versus using a top 3 pick is a no brainer for me. Sacrificing such a high pick this year to avoid what will hopefully be a mid 1st round pick next year being slightly diluted seems an overreaction. The only other issue would be how many players we're trying to trade in as well, having to use 22, 54 and 56 to do that (minus whatever we could get in by any trades out).

[Markwebbos]

With going into deficit next year, we could do what the Giants did and trade or swap our first round pick for 2021, which means the deficit would come off our second rounder.

[The Runner]

With going into deficit next year, we could do what the Giants did and trade or swap our first round pick for 2021, which means the deficit would come off our second rounder.

Not a bad idea to trade next years first round for one this year, if we can get it before Campbell. Getting 3 top 10 picks would really help us in fast tracking back up the ladder, similar to Port. Especially if we get Paddy too.

[gloveski]

I wonder if we could trade pick 3 for a bonafide player plus a later pick . Get the points so we don’t go into deficit and gain a top talent in the process .
Still like to take the punt on a top pick but this is also an option


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[waswan]

I wonder if we could trade pick 3 for a bonafide player plus a later pick . Get the points so we don’t go into deficit and gain a top talent in the process .
Still like to take the punt on a top pick but this is also an option


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Would prefer this over not raking a mid at 3, grab an established mid at 3

[KSAS]

Would prefer this over not raking a mid at 3, grab an established mid at 3
Is it worth considering using pick 3 to snare Zach Merrett from Essendon if he's gettable? There has been speculations whether he'll sign contract extension amongst their current unrest. Still has a year remaining on his current contract and will become RFA next year, but can imagine Dodo playing his usual over the top hardball in any case.

[waswan]

Is it worth considering using pick 3 to snare Zach Merrett from Essendon if he's gettable? There has been speculations whether he'll sign contract extension amongst their current unrest. Still has a year remaining on his current contract and will become RFA next year, but can imagine Dodo playing his usual over the top hardball in any case.

All adds up apart from it being Essendon.

Someone like him, Early 20s and All Aus type mid for Pick 3 plus later picks back

[MattW]

This piece suggests we have 'mild interest' in Tom Hickey, which would only become 'serious' if we 'miss out on a ruckman in the 22-25-year-old bracket'.

Trade Period state of play: Who's going, who's undecided (https://www.afl.com.au/news/515946)

I wonder who we're looking for in that age bracket.

[gloveski]

I still think Constable fits exactly what we need in a big bodied midfielder. The lad can play . Brander is another I wouldn’t mind the Swans inquiring about


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[Melbourne_Blood]

Is it worth considering using pick 3 to snare Zach Merrett from Essendon if he's gettable? There has been speculations whether he'll sign contract extension amongst their current unrest. Still has a year remaining on his current contract and will become RFA next year, but can imagine Dodo playing his usual over the top hardball in any case.

I’d give Merrett a miss personally, wouldn’t come cheap. A Constable or Will Brodie type would be my preference.


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[Markwebbos]

Gary Buckenara suggests Carlton should offer us pick 7 and Levi Casboult for Parker!

[Aprilbr]

Buckenara in his list analysis of Carlton threw up the name of Parker as someone the Blues should enquire about. While he is under contract, Bucks suggested that Pick 7 plus Casboult to the Swans might be tempting to the Swans given our current re-build status. Thoughts please?

[Aprilbr]

I think Mark and I were posting simultaneously!

[Thunder Shaker]

This piece suggests we have 'mild interest' in Tom Hickey, which would only become 'serious' if we 'miss out on a ruckman in the 22-25-year-old bracket'.

Trade Period state of play: Who's going, who's undecided (https://www.afl.com.au/news/515946)

I wonder who we're looking for in that age bracket.
An interesting article. I was going to share it but you did it first.

No mention of any Swans players seeking a move to another club.

The other thing I was noting was the number of likely compensation picks before our pick 22.
* Three very likely: Joe Daniher (Essendon, first round or end of first round), Zac Williams (GWS, likely first round), Aidan Corr (GWS, likely end of first round).
* One possible: Brad Crouch (Adelaide, first round or end of first round).

If these all go through, pick 22 would slide to 26.

[dejavoodoo44]

Buckenara in his list analysis of Carlton threw up the name of Parker as someone the Blues should enquire about. While he is under contract, Bucks suggested that Pick 7 plus Casboult to the Swans might be tempting to the Swans given our current re-build status. Thoughts please?

I find that suggestion as impressive as his coaching record.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Merrett has some seriously elite skills and would significantly add to our midfield rotation but even more so having Dawson, Blakey, Bud and Merrett all on the field together allows us to change up our game via a mob of elite kicks.......our possession game and sling shot could go to a whole new level and expose teams like Hawthorn did there a few years back now :)

BUT

Fremantle traded Neale, as well as Pick 30, to the Brisbane Lions, who have sent Picks 6, 19 and 55 back to the Dockers............if similar is required I dont think we can afford it coming into this trade period for Merrett given Campbell and Gulden being in demand

we would basically need to split pick 3 into something like pick 8 and Pick 15 and in return say a pick 25 to be able handle Campbell and Gulden with out a massive deficit into next year

That would leave us picks say 22,25,54 and 56 ? to accomodate Gulden and Campbell...........which means Campbell and Gulden would really need to slide back down to say a pick 10 and pick 30 minimum and still accumulate significant a deficit = minimum say pick 30ish next year we would have to give up?

or involve next years first round pick which maybe pick 3 to 8 in some sort of manor? ie give next years first round pick 3-8ish

My guess is that we maybe going to use up next years first round pick for a serious player which maybe closer to pick 6 to 8 if we develop like so may supporters on this site are alluding to. If we truly bounce from 16th on the ladder to 10th that is only pick 9 we are giving away next year.

The only reason I say that is that if we bring in pick 3 in the draft along with Gulden and Campbell that is a very top heavy youthful team that would massively benefit from another experienced player that can dominate their position in a game week in week out..........also take over from Kennedy and Bud etc retiring soon

[707]

Buckenara in his list analysis of Carlton threw up the name of Parker as someone the Blues should enquire about. While he is under contract, Bucks suggested that Pick 7 plus Casboult to the Swans might be tempting to the Swans given our current re-build status. Thoughts please?

Buckenara is yet another ex player getting a media gig that has absolutely NFI about list management and player trades. The article hasn't worth the key strokes he used to dream it up!

[Auntie.Gerald]

Just wanting to get everyones opinion on Gulden (after watching a little of his footage on the wknd and past games)

If Will Gould went with Pick26 as a back to back AA and SANFL Glenelg player plus captain of SA under18's.............wouldnt you guess that Gulden would slide back into pick range 30 to 40?

[Blood Fever]

I find that suggestion as impressive as his coaching record.

Silly suggestion but Buckenara was on a hiding to nothing coaching the Swans. Diabolical list if players at his disposal at that time and the club was hanging by a thread.

[aardvark]

Ben Reid has retired so I'm guessing Sam won't be wanting to play with his brother anytime soon.

[Auntie.Gerald]

To provide us the best opportunity to start bouncing back up the ladder and given we have been on the bottom of the table two years in a row

My ideal would be 5 or 6 players in via a mix of experience in 2020

- Pick 3 if we are seriously bullish on all top 3 players...... or split if considered optimised for trading
- Campbell
- Gulden
- McCartin Paddy nil points required?
- trade out our first rounder next season for an experienced important player that enables us to function much better as a team (if we think this will be pick 6 to 8? and not a strong draft?). This could also bring in another pick say 15 to 20 this season in this trade.........this could be crucial for not deficit next year?
- Ruckman minimal points or FA etc

I have been wondering about the Swans Kennedy rumours i heard a couple of months ago are true?.... if it is true that he would like to head back to Melb in 2021?

I wonder if like the Hawks and Geelong assisting champion players near retirement over last 5-7 years if this may be something we would facilitate also?

[dimelb]

No Park(er)ing!

[Mr Magoo]

Just wanting to get everyones opinion on Gulden (after watching a little of his footage on the wknd and past games)

If Will Gould went with Pick26 as a back to back AA and SANFL Glenelg player plus captain of SA under18's.............wouldnt you guess that Gulden would slide back into pick range 30 to 40?

I tend to agree with this but with little exposure of the Vic kids he may hold higher than would be normally expected. Its a weird draft year as the word is that they will push the talent programme out to u19 and u17 so those with exposed form may be taken higher than normal with the expectation that those without can fall through until next year now.

[Captain]

Buckenara in his list analysis of Carlton threw up the name of Parker as someone the Blues should enquire about. While he is under contract, Bucks suggested that Pick 7 plus Casboult to the Swans might be tempting to the Swans given our current re-build status. Thoughts please?

Yeah not keen.

[barry]

Buckenara in his list analysis of Carlton threw up the name of Parker as someone the Blues should enquire about. While he is under contract, Bucks suggested that Pick 7 plus Casboult to the Swans might be tempting to the Swans given our current re-build status. Thoughts please?

Not casboult, he's already 30. But if they offered pick 7 and a good player under 23, I'd take that deal.

[Markwebbos]

Not casboult, he's already 30. But if they offered pick 7 and a good player under 23, I'd take that deal.

Pick 7 and de Koning?

[Nico]

Buckenara in his list analysis of Carlton threw up the name of Parker as someone the Blues should enquire about. While he is under contract, Bucks suggested that Pick 7 plus Casboult to the Swans might be tempting to the Swans given our current re-build status. Thoughts please?

I for one don't listen to what Buckerina says. Was the worst coach we have ever had. His credibilty is worthless. My opinion only.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Pick 7 and de Koning?

I like that, but that’s in a fantasy world where Parker is even considering leaving or us letting him go


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[Nico]

Silly suggestion but Buckenara was on a hiding to nothing coaching the Swans. Diabolical list if players at his disposal at that time and the club was hanging by a thread.

Disagree. The players we woefully unfit and Barassi said so. They were gone after 15 minutes into the first quarter. Once they got an acceptable fitness level they started to become competitive.

[Markwebbos]

I like that, but that’s in a fantasy world where Parker is even considering leaving or us letting him go

Clubs have asked the question before...

[barry]

Disagree. The players we woefully unfit and Barassi said so. They were gone after 15 minutes into the first quarter. Once they got an acceptable fitness level they started to become competitive.

Yeah, I think Buckenara has a good footy brain, and would be an ok coach. But he came from Hawthorn who had a magnificent setup of facilities and assistants, to a club which had very little. It takes a great coach to transition from thinking about game style sublte techniques to realised that the players just need to get fitter. The swans were not the place for a coach like him to succeed.

Its quite amazing how far new clubs are behind established clubs. They just dont have the loyal bunch of volunteers, or influence over various lower levels of government which gets the basics done.

[Mark26]

Buckenara in his list analysis of Carlton threw up the name of Parker as someone the Blues should enquire about. While he is under contract, Bucks suggested that Pick 7 plus Casboult to the Swans might be tempting to the Swans given our current re-build status. Thoughts please?

No way should we give up our own man of steel, Lukey the legend Parker. I'd have to change my RWO name, profile pic and find a new favourite Swans' son to cheer for.

[707]

Can people please stop posting scenarios that have JPK and/or Parker leaving - they are not so it's a waste of thought process and space in this thread!

2021 touted to be a strong draft with over looked late bloomers that should have been noticed for this years draft playing U19s next year so potentially a bigger and deeper pool of talent next year.

In a normal draft there's about 65-70 players drafted, be interesting to see, with probable smaller lists and half the draft pool with no exposed U18 form, if there's less picks used this year. Might be useful for us as point bearing picks may be discarded unused by some strong clubs.

So many permutations in the draft this strange year

[Markwebbos]

Can people please stop posting scenarios that have JPK and/or Parker leaving - they are not so it's a waste of thought process and space in this thread!

Where's the fun in that? You can't deny us our human right to speculate extravagantly prior to the trade, draft and free agency period!

[stevoswan]

Where's the fun in that? You can't deny us our human right to speculate extravagantly prior to the trade, draft and free agency period!

I get that you're sort of joking but.......we all (rightly) get angry with 'lazy' journo's doing exactly the same thing.:tongue:

[Thunder Shaker]

Just wanting to get everyones opinion on Gulden (after watching a little of his footage on the wknd and past games)

If Will Gould went with Pick26 as a back to back AA and SANFL Glenelg player plus captain of SA under18's.............wouldnt you guess that Gulden would slide back into pick range 30 to 40?
I doubt that would happen. Gulden has been one of relatively few players who has had a relatively normal playing season this year and he has performed well. He's less likely to slip down the draft order than other players who have not been playing and therefore have less clear prospects. Gulden has also grown a few centimetres this year, taking him out of the "too short" list.

When I computed the draft points we needed, I guessed that he would go at 25 (and Campbell at 10), but that's likely to be a conservative estimate for Gulden.

[wolftone57]

Can people please stop posting scenarios that have JPK and/or Parker leaving - they are not so it's a waste of thought process and space in this thread!

2021 touted to be a strong draft with over looked late bloomers that should have been noticed for this years draft playing U19s next year so potentially a bigger and deeper pool of talent next year.

In a normal draft there's about 65-70 players drafted, be interesting to see, with probable smaller lists and half the draft pool with no exposed U18 form, if there's less picks used this year. Might be useful for us as point bearing picks may be discarded unused by some strong clubs.

So many permutations in the draft this strange yearIt is such a pity they are reducing list sizes. This year one side used 39 players. We used all but 6 players.

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[Markwebbos]

I get that you're sort of joking but.......we all (rightly) get angry with 'lazy' journo's doing exactly the same thing.:tongue:

I think there is a world of difference between a journalist writing an article with no basis in fact, and our discussing on here whether we would be prepared to trade Parker, Hewett, Buddy or whoever.

[KTigers]

Surely there is some sort of age limit for players before they can be associated with "going home" rumours.
JPK is in his mid 40s now, right? He is a big person now. Leave him alone.

[Meg]

JPK is in his mid 40s now, right?.

Wow, no wonder he has slowed down a bit!

[Ludwig]

Peter Ladhams extends contract with PA.
Preuss requests trade to GWS. I can only imagine that the Swans didn't want him that much, since we must have had more loose change in the kitty than the Giants.

The available ruckmen ranks are running low. There's Peter Wright, who has said he prefers not to be a ruckman. And a couple of Richmond players in Coleman-Jones and Chol. Maybe we've made a play for CJ and are just waiting for the season to end to go public, since Richmond are still playing finals. Otherwise, it's looking like Cal Sinclair is the man in the middle next year again.

No Ruckman, No Cry! It looks as though I'm getting my wish that the Swans play ruckless, even as I was starting to change my mind. I guess it's too late to go back. They've taken me seriously. :eek:

[Colin Hounsell]

Buckenara in his list analysis of Carlton threw up the name of Parker as someone the Blues should enquire about. While he is under contract, Bucks suggested that Pick 7 plus Casboult to the Swans might be tempting to the Swans given our current re-build status. Thoughts please?

That is about as interesting to me as the prospect of Buckenara coming back to coach at the Swans...a bad idea

[Colin Hounsell]

2021 touted to be a strong draft with over looked late bloomers that should have been noticed for this years draft playing U19s next year so potentially a bigger and deeper pool of talent next year.

In a normal draft there's about 65-70 players drafted, be interesting to see, with probable smaller lists and half the draft pool with no exposed U18 form, if there's less picks used this year. Might be useful for us as point bearing picks may be discarded unused by some strong clubs.

So many permutations in the draft this strange year

Agree with this. reckon we will work to maintain or increase our hand in the draft next year. We will have more players to replace after retirements (Kennedy, gray, Taylor at least) and more interest in trading. I can see us trading Melican and Ronke to north for a third rounder and a throw away pick so we have the points to use up on drafting Campbell and Guilden.

Hope we get Thilthorpe with pick 3 or if not Hollands.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Hollands ACL recon this last 12months ?

[gloveski]

Hollands ACL recon this last 12months ?

Be over 12 months now so he should be ready to go


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[Ludwig]

Hollands ACL recon this last 12months ?It was in Feb this year. So should be pretty far along now without complications.

[MattW]

Who are we and what do we stand for if we're trading Luke Parker - club captain, former B&F winner, who'll finish top 2 in the b&f this year.

Success doesn't come at any price, particularly trades involving heart and soul players.

[Steve]

The available ruckmen ranks are running low. There's Peter Wright, who has said he prefers not to be a ruckman. And a couple of Richmond players in Coleman-Jones and Chol. Maybe we've made a play for CJ and are just waiting for the season to end to go public, since Richmond are still playing finals. Otherwise, it's looking like Cal Sinclair is the man in the middle next year again.

No Ruckman, No Cry! It looks as though I'm getting my wish that the Swans play ruckless, even as I was starting to change my mind. I guess it's too late to go back. They've taken me seriously. :eek:

It is a bit of a shame there isn't a promising, emerging ruckman available, as we have the perfect opportunity available to entice one.

I had been of the mind that if we can't get a decent young ruck then we may as well continue with Sinclair and the existing makeshift backup. The main concern there, and I assume the reason someone like Hickey is being looked at, is if Sinclair goes down or drops off, we don't want our young midfield learning to just rove to the opposition ruckman because we have Aliir, McLean etc as the token ruckman at contests.

Then maybe over the next couple of years we get hold of a genuine ruckman who slots in seamlessly.

[Auntie.Gerald]

luckily there is no failure only outcomes :)

[Markwebbos]

It is a bit of a shame there isn't a promising, emerging ruckman available, as we have the perfect opportunity available to entice one.

I had been of the mind that if we can't get a decent young ruck then we may as well continue with Sinclair and the existing makeshift backup. The main concern there, and I assume the reason someone like Hickey is being looked at, is if Sinclair goes down or drops off, we don't want our young midfield learning to just rove to the opposition ruckman because we have Aliir, McLean etc as the token ruckman at contests.

Then maybe over the next couple of years we get hold of a genuine ruckman who slots in seamlessly.

We've only missed out on Ladhams and Preuss, we may have other irons in the fire. It's a slightly weird sell because theoretically Naismith will be available next year. Maybe we are trying to coax TD out of retirement?

[AB Swannie]

Very much a hypothetical but Sam Hayes is the other young ruck at Port Adelaide who has shown potential. He is stuck behind Ladhams and Lycett.

[Ludwig]

Very much a hypothetical but Sam Hayes is the other young ruck at Port Adelaide who has shown potential. He is stuck behind Ladhams and Lycett.You could be right about Hayes. 3 years in the AFL and 0 games. He was rated the best ruckman in the 2017 draft, but didn't get picked till #47. He's a bit skinny, but maybe that's the kind of ruckman we want, instead of the more powerful Preuss, and might explain why we didn't throw our hat in the ring for him.

Typical Swans, not showing our hand too early.

Hayes and Paddy McCartin would be a pretty cheap way to fill a couple of key position needs.

[Auntie.Gerald]

pretty sure sam hayes did his acl 2018/19?

[rb4x]

Sam Hayes did his ACL in 2018. Got back on the park sometime in 2019. Would have only played in scrimmages in 2020 as COVID shut down Port Adelaide and Adelaide SAFL teams. Basically a year off so I would think he would be an ideal get. Doubt Port would want to let him go after letting Ryder and Frampton go and now Westhoff retiring.

If we are looking at Hickey it would likely mean that we don't expect Knoll to make the grade as an AFL ruck. Difficult to know where he is at as he has only played a couple of inconsequential scrimmages since coming back from his PCL.

[Auntie.Gerald]

ive had a full acl reco - very happy with the results - it has been 3 years now

pretty sure the stats are just over 15 of every 100 athletes re do their ACL after returning to the sport......big sammyNaismith case in point

so it is significant and especially in a 360 sport

From memory professional sports people were 7 times more likely to sustain ACL injuries in competition than in practice.

[longmile]

So we're quietly confident we can get Paddy McCartin and no-one else is sniffing around?

We have pick 3 in the rookie draft right? Adelaide or North wouldn't make a play for him?

[707]

Hollands ACL recon this last 12months ?Pre season this year I think

[707]

So we're quietly confident we can get Paddy McCartin and no-one else is sniffing around?

We have pick 3 in the rookie draft right? Adelaide or North wouldn't make a play for him?

Delisted player so we can just add Paddy to the list, doesn't need to come via any draft.

[gloveski]

Delisted player so we can just add Paddy to the list, doesn't need to come via any draft.

Except other clubs are also expressing interest . It will come down to him wanting to stay in Melbourne or play with his brother


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[liz]

Delisted player so we can just add Paddy to the list, doesn't need to come via any draft.

Not sure that’s the case. When was he delisted? It’s true that any player just delisted becomes a FA but I don’t think that applies to previously delisted players.

Edit: Though on reflection, maybe they changed that to allow Mumford to rejoin the Giants after he retired. They change the rules so often to suit particular whims that it's hard to keep track of what exactly the rules are.

[KSAS]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Gary Lyon who claims to know the McCaritin family, mention that Paddy did do training with the Swans Academy. This may explain our link with him along with his brother Tom.

[Steve]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Gary Lyon who claims to know the McCaritin family, mention that Paddy did do training with the Swans Academy. This may explain our link with him along with his brother Tom.

He did but it was just when he was in Sydney visiting his brother - joined in some training but just part of staying fit while on holiday. Not as if we invited him up specifically, or he did anything with the senior team or coaches etc.

[KSAS]

Thanks for the clarification Steve. Not sure on what info Gary Lyon & Tim Watson made them link Paddy with us, unless they'd received inside word from the McCartins themselves.

[aardvark]

I know it's "left field" but every year over 200 players apply for the NBA draft and only 65 get picked. I'm guessing maybe 10% of the ones that miss out are over 6'10". Surely Mason Cox has a mate that could learn to ruck in a hurry on a rookie contract.

[707]

I know it's "left field" but every year over 200 players apply for the NBA draft and only 65 get picked. I'm guessing maybe 10% of the ones that miss out are over 6'10". Surely Mason Cox has a mate that could learn to ruck in a hurry on a rookie contract.

Mason Cox is a limited footballer himself, giant US recruits haven't been a success so far in the AFL.

[mattybloods]

Thanks for the clarification Steve. Not sure on what info Gary Lyon & Tim Watson made them link Paddy with us, unless they'd received inside word from the McCartins themselves.I think Paddy is going out with Gary's partner's daughter so he might have some inside info

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[Scottee]

I think Paddy could be played as a KP defender successfully. It would be far less likely that he would sustain head contact when he is the one spoiling.

[gloveski]

I think Paddy is going out with Gary's partner's daughter so he might have some inside info

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I thought it was spud frawley’s daughter ?


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[Captain]

I think Paddy could be played as a KP defender successfully. It would be far less likely that he would sustain head contact when he is the one spoiling.

I don't get the fuss on him. Way too injury prone.

[707]

I don't get the fuss on him. Way too injury prone.

The fuss is, cheap in salary and arrives for free. Is a long shot, but so are rookies. I'm ambivalent

[Chilcott]

Have heard that Fremantle may be open to trade Jesse Hogan; and that Swans are very interested. I would prefer Hogan over P Mcartin.

[barry]

Have heard that Fremantle may be open to trade Jesse Hogan; and that Swans are very interested. I would prefer Hogan over P Mcartin.

If you take mental health as seriously as physical health, he (Hogan) is as likely to play as many games as J Daniher.

However, Hogan is a gun, and maybe the anonymity of Sydney may help.

- - - Updated - - -


Mason Cox is a limited footballer himself, giant US recruits haven't been a success so far in the AFL.

I still reakon Mason Cox would have made a great ruckman and around the ground marking target. He is wasted as a forward, and should have got out of collingwood to a team like us who need a ruckman years ago.
Unfortunately he's over 30, so his cards are marked. Too late to learn a new craft.

[bloodspirit]

Welcome Don Pyke. I think he's a great addition. After the departure of Blakey we needed a senior and experienced replacement. As a former senior AFL coach who had success I think he offers that. I'm not too troubled by him presiding over the infamous camp. Who knows how much it was his call and, anyway, he will have learnt from that whole experience. Plus, he was available and willing to come to Sydney. Of former head coaches going around, I'm really glad we didn't go for someone like Brad Scott or Scott Watters.

- - - Updated - - -

Two out, one in, with a reduction in soft cap might work out ok. Then again we also lost Tadhg, but perhaps we can bring him back?

[gloveski]

Have heard that Fremantle may be open to trade Jesse Hogan; and that Swans are very interested. I would prefer Hogan over P Mcartin.

By the sounds he will be heading to either QLD or a NSW based club , below taken from the AFL app


The Magistrate recorded a conviction against Hogan despite his lawyer applying for him to be granted a spent conviction that would avoid the offence being recorded against him.

Dobson said one reason for the application was "looming" problems regarding Hogan's employment and the potential of him "living out his life in a rugby state, where he would never be known".


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[Ralph Dawg]

By the sounds he will be heading to either QLD or a NSW based club , below taken from the AFL app


The Magistrate recorded a conviction against Hogan despite his lawyer applying for him to be granted a spent conviction that would avoid the offence being recorded against him.

Dobson said one reason for the application was "looming" problems regarding Hogan's employment and the potential of him "living out his life in a rugby state, where he would never be known".


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Trade him for Elijah Taylor...........

[Rod_]

Agree Don Pyke should add some experience with Blakey Snr return to North. Well done Swans!

As for Paddy Mc - Big yes if he has recovered with a Medical green light. The up is excellent and worth a risk. Playing with his brother would be a good driver.

Hogan would be handy, given that Buddy, Reid have only played a handful of games in the last couple of years. if we get better than 50% games out of all of them could nurture next generation. However a B+ ruck would be my reference over Hogan. That way Sinclair can go forward as needed.

My recruiting plan would be

1. Best for #3 Midfielder. We need to keep improving the drive from the middle and without a tier one Ruck need best mids! (Should be ready to go and play 10+ games in 2021)
2. Then Campbell (Reported as best local talent, no homesickness issues)
3. Then Gulden. (Even if we go into arrears with points for 2021. And I don't want to see him in any other team!)
last Best project Ruckman to develop. Big body and can go forward pinch forward. (and because every team is going super tall in the forwards, defence will follow and we need to have a few tall options forward

Out

Elijah Taylor (perhaps Rookie to allow him to pay his dues, learn and Grow)
Jack Maibaum (not because he did anything wrong, just slipped in priority while injured)
Sam Gray (didn't show or being enough)
Lewis Taylor (50-50 due to injury or Ben Ronke traded to other for a Ruck second stringer. (has trade value however will not fit full time in the best 22)

Then depends on list numbers to be reduced when the AFL announce $ cuts and list numbers expected to be reduced..

Rod_

[Markwebbos]

Have heard that Fremantle may be open to trade Jesse Hogan; and that Swans are very interested. I would prefer Hogan over P Mcartin.

I am hoping we’ll make a play for him, on the understanding we’ve done our due diligence. Lest we forget even Buddy took time away from the game for mental health reasons.

Hogan has the potential to be as good as Daniher and is younger.

His lawyer in court this week over the Covid breach / booty call asked the judge to consider that Hogan could be playing in a Rugby League state in 2021

[bloodspirit]

Trade him for Elijah Taylor...........

Great suggestion! Maybe we'd need to tip in a bit more? ET has talent but has been both more trouble and has less proven ability at AFL level. We'd also need to have some confidence that Hogan can put his off-field issues behind him. He's had to leave two clubs partly on that account now.

[TheBloods]

Great suggestion! Maybe we'd need to tip in a bit more? ET has talent but has been both more trouble and has less proven ability at AFL level. We'd also need to have some confidence that Hogan can put his off-field issues behind him. He's had to leave two clubs partly on that account now.

I am starting to get a little concerned that ET will remain a Swan in 2021. I understand we haven't announced delistings yet, and fair enough before the B&F. But how difficult would it be for the club to announce a player charged with abuse has been axed ? Hasn't happened. I trust the club to do the right thing, but they would want to announce it shortly and make a strong statement on the matter.

[Ludwig]

If you take mental health as seriously as physical health, he (Hogan) is as likely to play as many games as J Daniher.

However, Hogan is a gun, and maybe the anonymity of Sydney may help.

Didn't you once guarantee that Daniher was coming to the Swans and any talk to the contrary was insane? Do you still hold that opinion?

I'm sure Hogan will remain anonymous in Sydney, since he'll never get to play a game.

[mattybloods]

Hogan to GWS would make sense if Cameron leaves. Would we recruit both Hogan and McCartin? Could free up Heeney to become a full time mid

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[bloodspirit]

I am starting to get a little concerned that ET will remain a Swan in 2021. I understand we haven't announced delistings yet, and fair enough before the B&F. But how difficult would it be for the club to announce a player charged with abuse has been axed ? Hasn't happened. I trust the club to do the right thing, but they would want to announce it shortly and make a strong statement on the matter.

I'm actually personally less decided than I was that ET should be delisted. Definitely the club needs to denounce what he has done and let it have some (significant consequences). They have made a good start in this regard and will need to do more than just allow him to resume training and playing at the beginning of next season. However, I think the decision to delist is a massive one, especially for him. For me the decision on whether to delist depends on his attitude. If he shows real remorse and demonstrates a commitment to reforming and taking the help that is offered to him, then I am open to keeping him on our list and helping to rehabilitate him.

- - - Updated - - -


Welcome Don Pyke. I think he's a great addition. After the departure of Blakey we needed a senior and experienced replacement. As a former senior AFL coach who had success I think he offers that. I'm not too troubled by him presiding over the infamous camp. Who knows how much it was his call and, anyway, he will have learnt from that whole experience. Plus, he was available and willing to come to Sydney. Of former head coaches going around, I'm really glad we didn't go for someone like Brad Scott or Scott Watters.

- - - Updated - - -

Two out, one in, with a reduction in soft cap might work out ok. Then again we also lost Tadhg, but perhaps we can bring him back?

I didn't realise when I posted that the chat about this was on the soft cap thread. But that's where to look to see more.

[Aprilbr]

I would think that ET has played his last game for our Club. Freo would not be willing to trade Hogan for him. ET has little or no trade currency at present given the pending court case etc. and his general behaviour problems. I have mixed feelings on whether Hogan is worth going after given the high price tag and perhaps trade expectations.

[Aprilbr]

Agree Don Pyke should add some experience with Blakey Snr return to North. Well done Swans!

As for Paddy Mc - Big yes if he has recovered with a Medical green light. The up is excellent and worth a risk. Playing with his brother would be a good driver.

Hogan would be handy, given that Buddy, Reid have only played a handful of games in the last couple of years. if we get better than 50% games out of all of them could nurture next generation. However a B+ ruck would be my reference over Hogan. That way Sinclair can go forward as needed.

My recruiting plan would be

1. Best for #3 Midfielder. We need to keep improving the drive from the middle and without a tier one Ruck need best mids! (Should be ready to go and play 10+ games in 2021)
2. Then Campbell (Reported as best local talent, no homesickness issues)
3. Then Gulden. (Even if we go into arrears with points for 2021. And I don't want to see him in any other team!)
last Best project Ruckman to develop. Big body and can go forward pinch forward. (and because every team is going super tall in the forwards, defence will follow and we need to have a few tall options forward

Out

Elijah Taylor (perhaps Rookie to allow him to pay his dues, learn and Grow)
Jack Maibaum (not because he did anything wrong, just slipped in priority while injured)
Sam Gray (didn't show or being enough)
Lewis Taylor (50-50 due to injury or Ben Ronke traded to other for a Ruck second stringer. (has trade value however will not fit full time in the best 22)

Then depends on list numbers to be reduced when the AFL announce $ cuts and list numbers expected to be reduced..

Rod_Some good suggestions there but Gray and Lewis Taylor are still under contract so they most likely will be staying. Both will be playing for their careers next season. Lets hope that Taylor returns from the off season super fit. He has the potential to be a good contributor if he can get into the best shape of his career. Gray is less likely to make it from my perspective.

[Blood Fever]

I would think that ET has played his last game for our Club. Freo would not be willing to trade Hogan for him. ET has little or no trade currency at present given the pending court case etc. and his general behaviour problems. I have mixed feelings on whether Hogan is worth going after given the high price tag and perhaps trade expectations.

Hogan has ability but has proved he's too much trouble. Leave well alone.

[Markwebbos]

I would think that ET has played his last game for our Club. Freo would not be willing to trade Hogan for him. ET has little or no trade currency at present given the pending court case etc. and his general behaviour problems. I have mixed feelings on whether Hogan is worth going after given the high price tag and perhaps trade expectations.

Hogan would have to come on terms that we feel are favorable to us. I'm not sure whether that's the case or not:

The club paid a lot for him in picks. He's in the last year of his contract next year and on good money.

(1) He had been on the outer with Longmuir, even trying to convert himself to a defender, but then he played the last few games and kicked 4 in one game, so showed his potential.
(2) Then he broken quarantine.

If the club doesn't think he's got a future then they would want to dump him and his salary and get whatever they can back, which might mean they'd even pay part of the first year of his new contract. However if they think he's worth persisting with, they might decide to see whether he can turn things around next year, and its going to cost us more as a trade and salary wise to get him.

My instinct is that he's shown enough, right at the death, for Freo to want to give him another make-or-break year, rather than give him away cheaply

[barry]

Didn't you once guarantee that Daniher was coming to the Swans and any talk to the contrary was insane? Do you still hold that opinion?


Maybe not coming, but a good fit for Sydney, and I think he still is. But Brisbane seem to have beat us to the line.




I'm sure Hogan will remain anonymous in Sydney, since he'll never get to play a game.

He's no plugger lockett, or Barry hall, or Buddy franklin who we knew would make an impact from day one.

I dont particularly like chasing these high risk candidates like Hogan and Paddy McCartin, who even if they play, may not be that good.
At least with Daniher, the reward was worth the risk.

I do realise I am a bit inconsistant in this thread ;)

[Ralph Dawg]

With Daniher going to Lions, Big O would be likely to spend more time in the ruck. If Stef Martin plays on, that's going to really limit Archie Smith's opportunities. He goes ok, especially with the hit outs. Given the dearth of apparent options, he could be an option for us?

[Thunder Shaker]

He's no plugger lockett, or Barry hall, or Buddy franklin who we knew would make an impact from day one.

I dont particularly like chasing these high risk candidates like Hogan and Paddy McCartin, who even if they play, may not be that good.
At least with Daniher, the reward was worth the risk.
That depends on what we would give up for Hogan. If we can get him cheaply, it may be worth considering.

[lwjoyner]

no to hogan. too much of a risk

[O'Reilly Boy]

I do realise I am a bit inconsistant in this thread ;)


had a little chuckle at this!

[Auntie.Gerald]

i deny nothing :)

easy motto to live by .... lol

[rb4x]

ET could be traded to the Eagles for Hickey and a pick swap that could give us a few valuable points. He would cost us points if traded to Freo for Hogan.

[Mark26]

ET could be traded to the Eagles for Hickey and a pick swap that could give us a few valuable points. He would cost us points if traded to Freo for Hogan.

I think ET would have no trade currency at the moment and would be surprised if he was still on our list next year.

[Auntie.Gerald]

"Saad has been offered a $3 million contract with Carlton over five years. Those terms would be very significant for a club to commit to for a player who did not wish to play for the club"

if the bombers force Saad to go to the pre season draft would you match the above offer and pick him up prior to getting to carlton ? ie we are pick 3 at the pre season draft

[barry]

"Saad has been offered a $3 million contract with Carlton over five years. Those terms would be very significant for a club to commit to for a player who did not wish to play for the club"

if the bombers force Saad to go to the pre season draft would you match the above offer and pick him up prior to getting to carlton ? ie we are pick 3 at the pre season draft

$600k per year for a half back flanker. No thanks, I'll keep Lloyd for probably $450k.

- - - Updated - - -

I cant help but think that if Norf's Ben Brown got a hair cut, shortened his run up, and generally made himself look less like a knob, he would be getting a lot better offers, and we would be way into him.
At the moment he is to alienating to be a marque full forward in the sydney market.

[Auntie.Gerald]

just doesnt have those Plugger good looks does he ? :)

[barry]

Plugger looked like a rugby league player.
Brown looks like a nimbin hippie.

[The Big Cat]

I worry that many of the suggestions relating to making room for new draftees and delisting are missing some important caveats. Many posters are suggesting the names of players on our rookie list. We need to make room on our main list (3 at least depending on new list sizes). So suggesting Maibaum, Knoll, etc etc won't help.

Some players suggested have contracts - Gray, Naismith, Taylor x 2. It won't be easy especially if we intend to add trades as well as draftees

[rb4x]

I worry that many of the suggestions relating to making room for new draftees and delisting are missing some important caveats. Many posters are suggesting the names of players on our rookie list. We need to make room on our main list (3 at least depending on new list sizes). So suggesting Maibaum, Knoll, etc etc won't help.

Some players suggested have contracts - Gray, Naismith, Taylor x 2. It won't be easy especially if we intend to add trades as well as draftees

Agree Big Cat. The delistings need to come from Senior Players who do not have a contract. e.g. Brand, Foot, Ling, Stoddart and Ronke would head that list. I think at least four of those will get delisted if not all five. Moving any to the rookie list does involve delisting them and trusting that they will still be available and rarely is used for more than one player. None of the above five have much trade value.

Trading in L Taylor, Gray and Brand was a bit unfortunate last year as we ended up with three list cloggers. If list sizes are reduced next year the Swans will need to go further into culling their senior list. FWIW I believe every player on the rookie list without a contract should also be very nervous. I expect most to be missing next year.

[Melbourne_Blood]

I find any suggestion ET has trade currency pretty fanciful. His career in the AFL is done, for now at least. Could have a shot at redemption one day but it’s a few years away at least.


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[TheBloods]

I find any suggestion ET has trade currency pretty fanciful. His career in the AFL is done, for now at least. Could have a shot at redemption one day but it’s a few years away at least.


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How do we know that? Are we certain the club is going to cut him?? No word of it at this point.

[Melbourne_Blood]

How do we know that? Are we certain the club is going to cut him?? No word of it at this point.

If the club with a staunch no dickheads policy doesn’t cut the guy who breached quarantine procedure and also plead guilty to the assault of a woman, I’d be very surprised. If he isn’t cut he still doesn’t play another game for us, and he still has zero trade currency.


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[Mel_C]

I thought it was spud frawley’s daughter ?


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P. McCartin is seeing Billy Brownless' daughter. Billy's ex wife is currently in a relationship with his ex friend Garry Lyon... (That was a messy situation!). So Lyon may have insight into what McCartin is thinking.

[Nico]

Welcome Don Pyke. I think he's a great addition. After the departure of Blakey we needed a senior and experienced replacement. As a former senior AFL coach who had success I think he offers that. I'm not too troubled by him presiding over the infamous camp. Who knows how much it was his call and, anyway, he will have learnt from that whole experience. Plus, he was available and willing to come to Sydney. Of former head coaches going around, I'm really glad we didn't go for someone like Brad Scott or Scott Watters.

- - - Updated - - -

Two out, one in, with a reduction in soft cap might work out ok. Then again we also lost Tadhg, but perhaps we can bring him back?

Also he is likely to be qualified to do a number of roles.

[Ludwig]

Agree Big Cat. The delistings need to come from Senior Players who do not have a contract. e.g. Brand, Foot, Ling, Stoddart and Ronke would head that list. I think at least four of those will get delisted if not all five. Moving any to the rookie list does involve delisting them and trusting that they will still be available and rarely is used for more than one player. None of the above five have much trade value.

The players you've are highly unlikely to be delisted. Foot is an outside chance, but I think we'll keep him, and Ronke might be traded.

Where delistings come from is only superficially relevant. It's more a matter of list manipulation between primary and rookie lists. This happens at every club to make lists comply with AFL dictates and is never challenged by AFL. More about form over substance.

To give a couple of examles:

Brody Mihocek has played 3 years and all of his 58 games with Collingwood frin their rookie list.
Lachie Henderson is 30 years old was moved Geelong's rookie list last year, via delisting and redrafting.


I don't recall any player drafted by another club when the delisting club announces their intent to redraft the player as a rookie.

[TheBloods]

If the club with a staunch no dickheads policy doesn’t cut the guy who breached quarantine procedure and also plead guilty to the assault of a woman, I’d be very surprised. If he isn’t cut he still doesn’t play another game for us, and he still has zero trade currency.


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i would hope so but as i said, concerned that the club hasn't acted already. I trust the club to do the right thing but the longer we go without cutting him the more i worry he will be a Swan in 2021.

[bloodspirit]

If the club with a staunch no dickheads policy doesn’t cut the guy who breached quarantine procedure and also plead guilty to the assault of a woman, I’d be very surprised. If he isn’t cut he still doesn’t play another game for us, and he still has zero trade currency.


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I don't know that we have a staunch no dickheads policy these days, if we ever did (I think it was always overblown), but we do value good character and competitiveness, not just skill and athleticism (as of course all clubs do).

[Ludwig]

i would hope so but as i said, concerned that the club hasn't acted already. I trust the club to do the right thing but the longer we go without cutting him the more i worry he will be a Swan in 2021.Taylor's been stood down since his arrest. Now that he's a convicted felon, I doubt he will be with the club next year. I don't think he will be delisted, but rather terminated due to breach of contract. His AFL career might be over, at least till he puts in a few years of good behaviour. He has a long road ahead of him to make that happen.

[Nico]

Taylor's been stood down since his arrest. Now that he's a convicted felon, I doubt he will be with the club next year. I don't think he will be delisted, but rather terminated due to breach of contract. His AFL career might be over, at least till he puts in a few years of good behaviour. He has a long road ahead of him to make that happen.

Bit strange that there has been no news on a delisting.

[TheBloods]

Taylor's been stood down since his arrest. Now that he's a convicted felon, I doubt he will be with the club next year. I don't think he will be delisted, but rather terminated due to breach of contract. His AFL career might be over, at least till he puts in a few years of good behaviour. He has a long road ahead of him to make that happen.

Then if it was that clear cut why can't the club be transparent and just announce that he will not be a Swan? We are all assuming that the club will take this tough stance but do we actually have any evidence that the club is going to do this ???

[Markwebbos]

Bit strange that there has been no news on a delisting.

aren't they waiting until after the Bob Skilton medal tomorrow night.

[Melbourne_Blood]

I don't know that we have a staunch no dickheads policy these days, if we ever did (I think it was always overblown), but we do value good character and competitiveness, not just skill and athleticism (as of course all clubs do).

You may be right. The Fact is we have hardly gone near a player ( buddy excluded, but generational player so different story ) with any whiff of bad behaviour about them for a long time.

Until drafting ET who had some question marks over work ethic, behaviour etc.
And this had backfired spectacularly. It sucks as it will discourage us from risk taking recruiting for a long while and many of these type of gambles have paid off for clubs in recent time’s.


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[Markwebbos]

You may be right. The Fact is we have hardly gone near a player ( buddy excluded, but generational player so different story ) with any whiff of bad behaviour about them for a long time.

Until drafting ET who had some question marks over work ethic, behaviour etc.
And this had backfired spectacularly. It sucks as it will discourage us from risk taking recruiting for a long while and many of these type of gambles have paid off for clubs in recent time’s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Leaving aside Michael Talia, although that went Pete Tong after we acquired him.

I wonder with ET whether the plan was to take a calculated risk, keep a very tight rein on him, accommodate him with Buddy etc (in a similar way to players at Richmond), and Covid put paid to that.

[Nico]

aren't they waiting until after the Bob Skilton medal tomorrow night.

I am alluding to ET. Why wait until after the count.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Leaving aside Michael Talia, although that went Pete Tong after we acquired him.

I wonder with ET whether the plan was to take a calculated risk, keep a very tight rein on him, accommodate him with Buddy etc (in a similar way to players at Richmond), and Covid put paid to that.

Even Talia was slightly different. That was more an alleged ‘ insider trading’ thing before we recruited him. He obviously shat in our face after that.


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[The Big Cat]

I am alluding to ET. Why wait until after the count.

He might win best first year player and needs to there to collect his trophy.

[gloveski]

P. McCartin is seeing Billy Brownless' daughter. Billy's ex wife is currently in a relationship with his ex friend Garry Lyon... (That was a messy situation!). So Lyon may have insight into what McCartin is thinking.

My bad I dont know why I thought it was Spud Frawley’s daughter [emoji848]


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[Markwebbos]

I am alluding to ET. Why wait until after the count.

Not sure he can be delisted.

[aardvark]

ET gets sentenced in December. Not sure he'll be much use to us in prison. There's a bit to play out I reckon. Maybe the AFL will deregister him.

[rb4x]

Very surprised if ET gets a prison sentence

[Auntie.Gerald]

The nrl have gone down the path of standing down a player from games, while still being paid their contract.........but the player can train with the team until court outcome. ie innocent before proven guilty.

The pay still counts towards the cap

If it is determined that ET is innocent by Australian courts........what are next steps for the Swans?

It is determined that ET is guilty do the Swans keep him on a revised contract and help with rehab if a suspended jail sentence ? or tear ETs contract up and de list him from our 2021 roster ?

[dejavoodoo44]

The nrl have gone down the path of standing down a player from games, while still being paid their contract.........but the player can train with the team until court outcome. ie innocent before proven guilty.

The pay still counts towards the cap

If it is determined that ET is innocent by Australian courts........what are next steps for the Swans?

It is determined that ET is guilty do the Swans keep him on a revised contract and help with rehab if a suspended jail sentence ? or tear ETs contract up and de list him from our 2021 roster ?
He's pleaded guilty.
I assume that there's a provision in AFL contracts, that allows a club to delist a play who commits a jailable offence. I mean, I can't recall any company, being forced to continue to employ someone, while they serve their time. If he doesn't get a prison sentence, I still think that we should delist him. Otherwise the club's stated commitment to values, will sound just like empty corporate PR blather.

[caj23]

Even Talia was slightly different. That was more an alleged ‘ insider trading’ thing before we recruited him. He obviously shat in our face after that.


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Talia was very unlucky to get caught, but the reality is recreational drug usage is extremely high for AFL footballers who are young men and can't go on big alcohol binges even in the offseason now.

You are extremely naive if you believe that we have 40 players on our list who don't partake in the Colombian marching powder.

[bloodspirit]

The nrl have gone down the path of standing down a player from games, while still being paid their contract.........but the player can train with the team until court outcome. ie innocent before proven guilty.

The pay still counts towards the cap

If it is determined that ET is innocent by Australian courts........what are next steps for the Swans?

It is determined that ET is guilty do the Swans keep him on a revised contract and help with rehab if a suspended jail sentence ? or tear ETs contract up and de list him from our 2021 roster ?


He's pleaded guilty.
I assume that there's a provision in AFL contracts, that allows a club to delist a play who commits a jailable offence. I mean, I can't recall any company, being forced to continue to employ someone, while they serve their time. If he doesn't get a prison sentence, I still think that we should delist him. Otherwise the club's stated commitment to values, will sound just like empty corporate PR blather.

Courts never find you "innocent". Not guilty does not mean innocent. Even if you probably did it you are "not guilty" because they can't be sure.

Gaolable offences include graffiti, shoplifting and carrying a Swiss Army knife in your pocket without a lawful excuse. Not exactly a high bar. Whether you actually get a gaol sentence seems a better measure of the seriousness of an offence.

[dejavoodoo44]

Courts never find you "innocent". Not guilty does not mean innocent. Even if you probably did it you are "not guilty" because they can't be sure.

Gaolable offences include graffiti, shoplifting and carrying a Swiss Army knife in your pocket without a lawful excuse. Not exactly a high bar. Whether you actually get a gaol sentence seems a better measure of the seriousness of an offence.

If he gets a large fine, community service, a restraining order and various other conditions, instead of a jail sentence, I don't think we should then pretend that the imprisonment and beating of a woman, should be regarded as a minor misdemeanour. The club should be prepared to stick to its stated values and terminate his contract.
Doing otherwise, sends a message that our talk of a strong culture, is just largely hot air. Or our culture is really just a bit of a boys club, and it just means going hard at the ball, and things like, honesty, respect, off-field behaviour and community values, don't really matter.
Maybe forty or fifty years ago, a significant number of people thought that giving the missus a bit of a slap, was a legitimate disciplinary measure, but times have moved on.

[Rod_]

He might win best first year player and needs to there to collect his trophy.

:-) And I thought I was a funny bugger~

[Markwebbos]

There's one of those wild "How Collingwood could get Jeremy Cameron" articles. Matt Rendell (ex-Pies) suggests they trade Brodie Grundy to the Swans... and suggests as his replacement, Sam Hayes at Port. I'd like to think we are pursuing Sam Hayes or similar.

Former Pies recruiter suggests huge trade moves for his old club (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/14/former-pies-recruiter-suggests-huge-trade-moves-for-his-old-club/)

- - - Updated - - -

There's one of those wild "How Collingwood could get Jeremy Cameron" articles. Matt Rendell (ex-Pies) suggests they trade Brodie Grundy to the Swans... and suggests as his replacement, Sam Hayes at Port. I'd like to think we are pursuing Sam Hayes or similar.

Former Pies recruiter suggests huge trade moves for his old club (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/14/former-pies-recruiter-suggests-huge-trade-moves-for-his-old-club/)

[707]

Matt Rendell doing quite a bit of media at present, was a very good recruiter in his day. Recently suggested Phillips was this years draft's Matt Rowell.

Speaking of Brodie Grundy, form fell away this season after landing his 7 x $1mill contract

[dejavoodoo44]

There's one of those wild "How Collingwood could get Jeremy Cameron" articles. Matt Rendell (ex-Pies) suggests they trade Brodie Grundy to the Swans... and suggests as his replacement, Sam Hayes at Port. I'd like to think we are pursuing Sam Hayes or similar.

Former Pies recruiter suggests huge trade moves for his old club (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/14/former-pies-recruiter-suggests-huge-trade-moves-for-his-old-club/)

- - - Updated - - -

There's one of those wild "How Collingwood could get Jeremy Cameron" articles. Matt Rendell (ex-Pies) suggests they trade Brodie Grundy to the Swans... and suggests as his replacement, Sam Hayes at Port. I'd like to think we are pursuing Sam Hayes or similar.

Former Pies recruiter suggests huge trade moves for his old club (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/14/former-pies-recruiter-suggests-huge-trade-moves-for-his-old-club/)

Sounds a touch fanciful, but I suspect that most of us would accept Grundy for our first round pick.

[bloodspirit]

Sounds a touch fanciful, but I suspect that most of us would accept Grundy for our first round pick.

Sounds absolutely ridiculous.

I wouldn't take Grundy due to the size of his salary. Otherwise, yeah, I'd consider pick 3. But I'd still think long and hard.

[Ralph Dawg]

For Grundy to come, we would have to agree to his current contract ie massive cash and 6 years. Collingwood would need to agree to pay a big chunk until Buddy retires. Just can't see it happening.

Sam Hayes would be a better target but has one year left on his contract. It would have to involve a player swap or future pick. Personally, I'm not averse to trading Hayward. We have Heeney, Dawson even Parker, Hewett and Joey who all can play the medium forward role with the added benefit of pushing into the midfield. I'd be happy for a direct swap but if we could get a third rounder too, that would be ideal.

[dejavoodoo44]

Sounds absolutely ridiculous.

I wouldn't take Grundy due to the size of his salary. Otherwise, yeah, I'd consider pick 3. But I'd still think long and hard.
Yes, pick 3: assuming that he takes a pay cut, and that he's willing to put up with feral Pies fans, for the next five years or so.

[TheBloods]

What are the odds we don't match any bid for Braeden Campbell ? Likely to go in the 6 to 10 range, which is better than a bid coming before our pick 3. But what if we still think a top 10 is too high for him and we arent willing to sacrifice the picks and the points that could be used on trading instead ?? Do people think this could be a likely outcome or are the club that invested in this kid .

[Ralph Dawg]

Jeez I hope not. Would set the bar so high for future academy hopefuls and send a really bad message.

[Markwebbos]

Yes, pick 3: assuming that he takes a pay cut, and that he's willing to put up with feral Pies fans, for the next five years or so.

If we take Brodie Grundy it would be a salary dump by the Pies, which means either (a) they pay a chunk of his wage or (b) we get him for a much lower pick e.g. second rounder.

I posted an article a while back suggesting that the Pies have totally stuffed up with Grundy’s contract (they have) and should try and get themselves out of trouble by trading him to a sucker club, who pick up his ludicrous contract.

Sam Hayes seems like a much better option.

[Markwebbos]

As an aside, SEN is reporting that early discussions between Brisbane and the Dodo about Joe Daniher are "far from smooth"

Early Daniher discussions far from smooth between Bombers and Lions (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/15/early-daniher-discussions-far-from-smooth-between-bombers-and-lions/)

[barry]

As an aside, SEN is reporting that early discussions between Brisbane and the Dodo about Joe Daniher are "far from smooth"

Early Daniher discussions far from smooth between Bombers and Lions (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/15/early-daniher-discussions-far-from-smooth-between-bombers-and-lions/)

He's coming to us in the pre-season draft, I tells ya!

[KTigers]

As an aside, SEN is reporting that early discussions between Brisbane and the Dodo about Joe Daniher are "far from smooth"

Early Daniher discussions far from smooth between Bombers and Lions (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/15/early-daniher-discussions-far-from-smooth-between-bombers-and-lions/)

Why would they be? Joe will want a lot of money and the understanding that he will only play if he has
nothing else on that day. It it wasn't for Covid he'd be wandering around Chelsea in New York sampling
single-origin coffees from Ecuador with Jobe Watson right now.

[The Runner]

What are the odds we don't match any bid for Braeden Campbell ? Likely to go in the 6 to 10 range, which is better than a bid coming before our pick 3. But what if we still think a top 10 is too high for him and we arent willing to sacrifice the picks and the points that could be used on trading instead ?? Do people think this could be a likely outcome or are the club that invested in this kid .

Always get the best player possible in any trade or draft pick. What you're essentially saying is, do we value Campbell or 2 later draft picks. Always go the better option. Take Campbell.

[Ludwig]

He's coming to us in the pre-season draft, I tells ya!Wow. Another big call.

Hang in there Barry. If you turn out to be right, you'll be an unassailable prophet for years.

[Auntie.Gerald]

"If the Lions can get Daniher across the line it would be the fourth straight off-season they have traded in (or accrued via free agency) a non-Queenslander. A mix of personnel, climate, coaches, players and environment have been credited for the change in dynamic which has thrust Brisbane into premiership contention."

i wonder if we will switch gears also ?

[Ludwig]

He's pleaded guilty.
I assume that there's a provision in AFL contracts, that allows a club to delist a play who commits a jailable offence. I mean, I can't recall any company, being forced to continue to employ someone, while they serve their time. If he doesn't get a prison sentence, I still think that we should delist him. Otherwise the club's stated commitment to values, will sound just like empty corporate PR blather.It's baffling that after so many years no one has ever provided a copy of an actual player contract or even a pro forma contract. Where are the AFL leakers and whistleblowers? What are those thousands of sports journalists doing all day?

With image being so important to the AFL, I would think that there would be termination provisions for a level of misconduct that almost certainly would include the commission of a felony.

I don't think the Swans want to publicize an ET termination. Why would we highlight a player welfare issue at a time when we are likely negotiating to recruit players from other clubs? We're not even doing delistings right now. We will probably wait until after the end of the season when it's buried under other trade and delisting news.

[707]

As an aside, SEN is reporting that early discussions between Brisbane and the Dodo about Joe Daniher are "far from smooth"

Well what a surprise! Dodo has to try and save face after rejecting pick 9 & this years now pick 3. Suffer Dodo, PSD to us is always a fall back position for JD

[Mr Magoo]

Always get the best player possible in any trade or draft pick. What you're essentially saying is, do we value Campbell or 2 later draft picks. Always go the better option. Take Campbell.

Campbells a lock no matter what happens

[Markwebbos]

"If the Lions can get Daniher across the line it would be the fourth straight off-season they have traded in (or accrued via free agency) a non-Queenslander. A mix of personnel, climate, coaches, players and environment have been credited for the change in dynamic which has thrust Brisbane into premiership contention."

i wonder if we will switch gears also ?

I have a hope (more likely fantasy) that the Swans made a strategic decision when they chose mid-season to offload Rohan and Hanners. That decision was to rebuild via the draft and (this is the bit I'm secretly hoping) and to use the extra $ they saved to front load player contracts (including potentially Buddy's). We should now be entering the last year of the plan. By the end of season 2021 we will finally have enough youth (including the 2 academy boys), improved our ladder position, and freed up cap space, to enable us to go after ready made players at other clubs.

I think this year is still too soon for us to be "switching gears"

[707]

We can't front load Buddy's contract, it hasto be paid exactly as it was in the contract offer we made. This applies to every RFA contract.

Next year Buddy is on $1.5 mill (unless it's reduced by the across the league reductions proposed), in 2022 Buddy is only on $1 mill.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Hey Mark

my gut feeling is that we can "walk and chew gum" re providing our list the best opportunity to evolve.....

ie if the exact type of experienced AFL level player (that we require) becomes available, we will no doubt consider our trade currency even if that means like other clubs using some of next years

This was fairly clear within our strategy with JD last season

[Melbourne_Blood]

Hey Mark

my gut feeling is that we can "walk and chew gum" re providing our list the best opportunity to evolve.....

ie if the exact type of experienced AFL level player (that we require) becomes available, we will no doubt consider our trade currency even if that means like other clubs using some of next years

This was fairly clear within our strategy with JD last season

I agree. The idea we can not afford to go after a player this year but we can next year ignores the fact that we can structure the contract in a way to make it work for us ( ie back ending it eg Buddy). If the opportunity presents itself this year then we should go for it. It could only speed up our potential to rise up the ladder.


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[Markwebbos]

The point I was trying to make is that: I suspect we are not in that strong a position to recruit ready made players this year due to (1) buddy's contract (2) ladder position, to which I'll add (3) draft picks (although we could use pick 3). I'm not saying we won't be going after players this year (we allegedly have with JD), more that we'll be in a much better position this time next year.

[Auntie.Gerald]

I agree with all points

sometimes though strange things happen ala Barry Hall, Bud, Lockett, Shaw etc who want to move out of Melb for personal reasons and sometimes we have to capitalise on this and pull forward our strategy

or clubs need to clear out and create cap space to preserve emerging talent who have shot up in value

just like we have been much more flexible between our game day strategy of uncontested footy vs contested and adjusting.......we have evolved

Neale to Brisvegas who would of thought.......i was shocked vs another team option anywhere in Oz

[Mark26]

Chol has been left out of the Tigers' squad two weeks in a row. He's ripe for the picking. Over to you Kinnear. Make a play.

[barry]

AFL have slapped an arbitrary trade ban on the Sun's. Sound familiar. Northern state clubs can't make any long term plans with the panic stricken AFL. They trade banned us, they suddenly dropped cola and retention allowances for us and lions, and then they abruptly dropped GWS's cap extension, which has caused all there player problems. Now the Sun's turn.

What a joke.

[Melbourne_Blood]

AFL have slapped an arbitrary trade ban on the Sun's. Sound familiar. Northern state clubs can't make any long term plans with the panic stricken AFL. They trade banned us, they suddenly dropped cola and retention allowances for us and lions, and then they abruptly dropped GWS's cap extension, which has caused all there player problems. Now the Sun's turn.

What a joke.

Hmmm I checked the article. They’ve slightly wound back some of the concessions they granted them when they were struggling. Mainly, they cannot trade the (beginning of ) second round pick they are granted for 2021.

‘Arbitrary trade ban on suns ‘ ....

Sensational headline Barry, reality a little less So. You should get a gig with uncle Rupert



https://www.afl.com.au/news/518007

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[Steve]

AFL have slapped an arbitrary trade ban on the Sun's. Sound familiar. Northern state clubs can't make any long term plans with the panic stricken AFL. They trade banned us, they suddenly dropped cola and retention allowances for us and lions, and then they abruptly dropped GWS's cap extension, which has caused all there player problems. Now the Sun's turn.

What a joke.

“Trade Ban” makes it sound a lot more dramatic than it really is.

At this stage 1 x 2nd round pick in 2021 they were being given as an extra concession has basically been frozen (from being traded), the AFL seem to be reserving the right to not give them that concession pick if they deem all the other concessions they’ve been given are sufficient by the time they review it next year.

Which is actually a pretty reasonable end result as what they were given was based on them being an ongoing basket case, and they do appear to be doing better than that now.

Even with this ‘ban’ they have done pretty well with what they’ve been given.

[barry]

What about just making a decision and sticking to it, and letting it play out.?.

[Nico]

Hmmm I checked the article. They’ve slightly wound back some of the concessions they granted them when they were struggling. Mainly, they cannot trade the (beginning of ) second round pick they are granted for 2021.

‘Arbitrary trade ban on suns ‘ ....

Sensational headline Barry, reality a little less So. You should get a gig with uncle Rupert



AFL slaps ban on Suns from trading future pick (https://www.afl.com.au/news/518007)

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So what did we do to get Rowbootom and McIninerny at the beginning of the second round?

[Markwebbos]

So what did we do to get Rowbootom and McIninerny at the beginning of the second round?

Draft extremely well. Both were considered left-field / “brave” choices when we picked them.

[Thunder Shaker]

What are the odds we don't match any bid for Braeden Campbell ? Likely to go in the 6 to 10 range, which is better than a bid coming before our pick 3. But what if we still think a top 10 is too high for him and we arent willing to sacrifice the picks and the points that could be used on trading instead ?? Do people think this could be a likely outcome or are the club that invested in this kid .
It would be much more likely that we did something like splitting pick 3 to ensure this doesn't happen.

I could live with pick 3 being swapped for lower picks - such as pick 12 and 18 - to ensure we get both players. Pick 3 is just a draft pick, but Campbell and Gulden are players we've been developing through the Academy for several years.

[Thunder Shaker]

An article discussing Errol Gulden and Isaiah Olsen.

Academy: Brothers for life (https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/826187/academy-brother-s-for-life)

Maybe we will be getting Olsen as well, perhaps as a rookie?

[0918330512]

What about just making a decision and sticking to it, and letting it play out.?.
Because when you give a struggling manufactured club too much of an advantage for too long you end up with ... GW$. GC have been given help, they have improved. Let them stand on their own two feet to succeed. They aren’t GW$, they don’t need to be gifted a grand final birth.

[barry]

Neither GWS or the gold coast have achieved anything yet.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Sun's were about to trade a high profile Melbourne clubs key player. ... Then a few phone calls were made..

[KSAS]

An article discussing Errol Gulden and Isaiah Olsen.

Academy: Brothers for life (https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/826187/academy-brother-s-for-life)

Maybe we will be getting Olsen as well, perhaps as a rookie?

Great article by Brandon Jack and insight the Academy is more than just developing talent but also lifelong friendships from crossing paths that wouldn't have happened. After reading that, I do hope we rookie List Isaiah Olsen who looks to also have the necessary skill & attitude to make it.

Also promising to hear similar trend with the Academy girls to help form close bonds with our future AFLW team.

[0918330512]

Neither GWS or the gold coast have achieved anything yet.

Neither has Freo, yet I don’t see them getting remotely similar concessions to the manufactured plastic northern interlopers :hmmm



I wouldn't be surprised if the Sun's were about to trade a high profile Melbourne clubs key player. ... Then a few phone calls were made..
They still can. It was only their additional picks they can’t trade, isn’t it? They don’t have a complete trade “ban“. And realistically they were given the additional picks to inject talent. This ensures they will select youth for the future as well as using normal picks to trade in experience if they so wish

[barry]

Neither has Freo, yet I don’t see them getting remotely similar concessions to the manufactured plastic northern interlopers :hmmm


Such a short memory.

We once we're a "manufactured northern interloper" in the eyes of many, and 1996 was seen as a gifted grand final appearance.

Anything that hurts any of the 4 northern clubs, hurts us.

[Captain]

There's one of those wild "How Collingwood could get Jeremy Cameron" articles. Matt Rendell (ex-Pies) suggests they trade Brodie Grundy to the Swans... and suggests as his replacement, Sam Hayes at Port. I'd like to think we are pursuing Sam Hayes or similar.

Former Pies recruiter suggests huge trade moves for his old club (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/14/former-pies-recruiter-suggests-huge-trade-moves-for-his-old-club/)

- - - Updated - - -

There's one of those wild "How Collingwood could get Jeremy Cameron" articles. Matt Rendell (ex-Pies) suggests they trade Brodie Grundy to the Swans... and suggests as his replacement, Sam Hayes at Port. I'd like to think we are pursuing Sam Hayes or similar.

Former Pies recruiter suggests huge trade moves for his old club (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/14/former-pies-recruiter-suggests-huge-trade-moves-for-his-old-club/)

I would do this in a heartbeat.

Grundy was obviously playing injured this year and is an absolute BEAST.

[barracuda]

Great article by Brandon Jack and insight the Academy is more than just developing talent but also lifelong friendships from crossing paths that wouldn't have happened. After reading that, I do hope we rookie List Isaiah Olsen who looks to also have the necessary skill & attitude to make it.

Also promising to hear similar trend with the Academy girls to help form close bonds with our future AFLW team.

I would be very surprised if he got rookied. From my intel there will only be 2 cat b spots and 4 cat a. The swans will be wanting to maximise senior list spots for high picks or swops. As a result Connor and Wicks will likely take the cat B spots, the swans will use Cat As for other listed players they want to keep. For example Zac Foote may be dropped down to Cat A but at least he stays on the list.

[Mr Magoo]

I would be very surprised if he got rookied. From my intel there will only be 2 cat b spots and 4 cat a. The swans will be wanting to maximise senior list spots for high picks or swops. As a result Connor and Wicks will likely take the cat B spots, the swans will use Cat As for other listed players they want to keep. For example Zac Foote may be dropped down to Cat A but at least he stays on the list.

And if the junior development programme moves back to 19s level then he and others behind Gulden and Campbell will have another 12 months to prove themselves. Swans would be silly to rookie list in that scenario

[barry]

I would do this in a heartbeat.

Grundy was obviously playing injured this year and is an absolute BEAST.

But we'd have to honour the 7 year contract, which is crazy.

Matt Rendell is saying that Collingwood stuffed up with the long contract and need to get out of it. We dont want to be the "sucker" club that gets lumbered with it.

[barry]

And realistically they were given the additional picks to inject talent.

Thats totally incorrect. They were given additional picks to attract player, preferably players who will stay long term, with no conditions attached.
Trading in a mature player is more likely to stay than a draft pick.


The big advantage GC have got this year, is that every player in the AFL has had a chance to see how nice South East Queensland is, and I think it will make them a destination club purely on location alone.

[neilfws]

Delisted: Michael Knoll, Jack Maibaum, Harry Reynolds, Brady Rowles, and Ryley Stoddart

Swans make list changes (https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/826644/swans-make-list-changes)

[Mark26]

No surprises with the five delisted players just announced: Reynolds, Maibaum, Knoll, Stoddart and Rowles.

[waswan]

But we'd have to honour the 7 year contract, which is crazy.

Matt Rendell is saying that Collingwood stuffed up with the long contract and need to get out of it. We dont want to be the "sucker" club that gets lumbered with it.

Contract could be changed but he is currently guarenteed 7yrs

Eg, Changed to 5yrs and front ended helped by the pies or anything.
Absolutely worth 5yrs at 7yrs it would be a dump

[The Big Cat]

No surprises with the five delisted players just announced: Reynolds, Maibaum, Knoll, Stoddart and Rowles.

Only one off our main list. Surely there must be more to come unless they are moving a few to the rookie list. Armertey and Wicks are both 3rd year rookies. Where do they go?

[Auntie.Gerald]

Swans make list changes (https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/826644/swans-make-list-changes)

[AB Swannie]

Only one off our main list. Surely there must be more to come unless they are moving a few to the rookie list. Armertey and Wicks are both 3rd year rookies. Where do they go?

Agreed. It is only the beginning. We have to make at least three changes to the main list and so there are at least two more to come there. If Amartey and Wicks are retained then they both need to be placed on the main list and so another two spots must be created.

Trades can be a part of that but I’d say it is unlikely we are trading four players. I’m unsure in the rules regarding Naismith and whether he can be placed on a long term injury list to make room? Still a bit to play out.

[111431]

Agreed. It is only the beginning. We have to make at least three changes to the main list and so there are at least two more to come there. If Amartey and Wicks are retained then they both need to be placed on the main list and so another two spots must be created.

Trades can be a part of that but I’d say it is unlikely we are trading four players. I’m unsure in the rules regarding Naismith and whether he can be placed on a long term injury list to make room? Still a bit to play out.

and the Elijah situation

[barracuda]

Agreed. It is only the beginning. We have to make at least three changes to the main list and so there are at least two more to come there. If Amartey and Wicks are retained then they both need to be placed on the main list and so another two spots must be created.

Trades can be a part of that but I’d say it is unlikely we are trading four players. I’m unsure in the rules regarding Naismith and whether he can be placed on a long term injury list to make room? Still a bit to play out.

Wicks can still be a 3rd year cat b rookie

[707]

Probably waiting until we see whether there are any reductions to TPP and list sizes before making final changes. Next week, next week is all the AFDL has been saying for two months. Looks like the AFLPA is playing hard ball on altering the CBA.

And who really knows what is happening at the level below? That's looking a mess at this stage, AFL have the barrow in front of them at present!

Reynolds, Maibaum, Knoll, Stoddart and Rowles, no real surprises there, I think most of us would have had those names on our own delist list.

[crackedactor 01]

No surprises with the five delisted players just announced: Reynolds, Maibaum, Knoll, Stoddart and Rowles.

A little bit surprised about Stoddart but I guess he was a 50/50 chance of staying or leaving. Now that Knoll has been delisted, we really have to make getting a ruckman a priority with Sinclair and Naismith a week to week proposition.

[giant]

Wicks can still be a 3rd year cat b rookie

Really liked his work this year, hope we find a way to keep him.

[giant]

An article discussing Errol Gulden and Isaiah Olsen.

Academy: Brothers for life (https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/826187/academy-brother-s-for-life)

Maybe we will be getting Olsen as well, perhaps as a rookie?

Nice. BJ can really write, can't he?

[O'Reilly Boy]

A little bit surprised about Stoddart but I guess he was a 50/50 chance of staying or leaving. Now that Knoll has been delisted, we really have to make getting a ruckman a priority with Sinclair and Naismith a week to week proposition.

Stoddard looked to me to have gone backwards in 2020 after a sprightly debut in 2019. Ling's composure and willingness to take the game on when he had the chance edged Ryley out.

I'm more disappointed by Maibaum not ever having a chance, but again, Melican's rapid return to form after a couple of tentative games, along with the arrival of Gould and even Brand as big-bodied defenders squeezed him out.

But as other posters have mentioned, there will have to be more delistings, pending trades (Ronke, anyone?), the AFL's decision on list size, and the slow turning of the Western Australian judicial wheel.

[O'Reilly Boy]

Nice. BJ can really write, can't he?

Really great piece. But whoever creates the headlines at AFL.com (I hesitate to call them a subbie) needs to think hard about their career choice.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/518199/what-about-me-knoll-among-five-axed-by-swans is a lazy stretch!

[Aprilbr]

I think a player like Ronke would not be delisted now as the Swans want to first see if he has any trade value. If other clubs show no interest in him then he is a chance to be delisted. I also think Ling is still a chance to be delisted pending talks with other clubs. I am pleased to see that Bell has survived. I like his aggressive attitude.