Round 5 Vs West Coast Eagles

[Aaron]

Go Swans. Let's win for Parker's 200th game!

[MattW]

Go Swans. Let's win for Parker's 200 games!

Well said. Come on, Swans.

[Aaron]

We have been playing better under the sun and in AWAY games. So we should at least keep this trend!

[mattybloods]

Hayward warming up with defence and Dawson with forward group. Mills with defence too

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[Maca1701]

I believe that Clarke has been brought in with a specific job to tag Gaff and curb his influence. Quietly a big KPI for getting the victory today.
Other thing I am looking out for is our ability to lower the eyes inside 50. If we just keep bombing it in McGovern will have a field day.

Overall looking forward to the game, swans by 4 points

[mattybloods]

Aliir with mids. He might be our #1 ruck today

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[707]

Hayward warming up with defence and Dawson with forward group. Mills with defence too

We can only hope

[dejavoodoo44]

Aliir with mids. He might be our #1 ruck today

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Yes, Aliir exclusively doing the taps in the warm up, while McLean is running around with the forward.

[Mel_C]

No more slow starts please!

[dejavoodoo44]

Weather conditions: spotless sky, quite warm in the sun. There is a bit if a southerly blowing, but that's blocked by the stands d s.

[bloodspirit]

Joey: three touches, three turnovers!!

[bloodspirit]

Looks like we have decided to play quick today. Too bad we haven't taken our chances.

[caj23]

Allirs ruck work is embarrassing
Must give a contest

[caj23]

COR in Allan, ridiculous match up

[mcs]

All that hard work blown in 2 minutes. Saying that, horrendous umpiring in the lead up to the 2nd last goal of Wet Toast.

[troyjones2525]

Good work Ollie, just gave them all the momentum they needed to run over us...

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[Foreign Legion]

COR in Allan, ridiculous match up

Yes I agree although I think that was because Melican was off.

Yes - Aliir needs to put body on him. Or concede every hit out and rove the taps. IF Aliir has the fitness run him around when we have the ball too.

[dejavoodoo44]

Well, that quarter definitely went for about a minute too long. Though apart from a few dodgy attempts at centering the ball, we did look pretty sharp. It's fun watching Papley live. He's just so energetic.

[Industrial Fan]

That last minute gives west coast all the run of play. Not optimistic from here

[Captain]

What was Florent thinking at the end?? So frustrating!

Aside from that and the ruck, we look pretty good.

[Mel_C]

Very pleased with the start but what a crap end to the quarter. Who was it that kicked it across the ground at the end? So frustrating!

Aliir has to contest the bounce. The current strategy is not working and the Eagles are just waltzing it out of the centre.

We had control of the game and now unfortunately the Eagles have confidence.

[troyjones2525]

Oh my God...[emoji2357]

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[Mel_C]

WTF Aliir!!!! How can you not take control of the ball?

[cruiser]

What is it with kicking backwards To contests in the centre passage? First Florent then Hayward. Kick forward!

[caj23]

Eagles one man down, we were flogged last week in the same situation

Will be poor if we get beaten easily again

[Gary]

Already a wreck ... Clarke looked like he didn't know about holding the ball rule ... advertised it like the lemon he is ... Hayward marks ... ignores my plea to kick it forward ... loses ball in middle ... Allir ... what? had enough already ... Florent ... forgot him ... just not a good thinker

[troyjones2525]

We've lifted our intensity the last 5 minutes!

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[i'm-uninformed2]

That was a fair handball by Rowbottom

[bloodspirit]

Those posters who bagged out Rowbottom after the Essendon loss should be hanging their heads. He's all class. Very promising young player. I love him.

[Legs Akimbo]

Poor Hayward is a shell of a player. No confidence. How he is getting a game is beyond me. Just a train wreck.

[troyjones2525]

Already a wreck ... Clarke looked like he didn't know about holding the ball rule ... advertised it like the lemon he is ... Hayward marks ... ignores my plea to kick it forward ... loses ball in middle ... Allir ... what? had enough already ...Totally agree about the Clarke call, was always going to be holding the ball. He has been poor as expected. Hayward still looks lost down back (was stiff then holding the ball), Longmire clearly loves the kid as anyone else would be dropped by now.

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[Mark26]

These umps are killing us.

[bloodspirit]

Also love McInerney. 2018 draft haul much better than 2017.

[Mel_C]

I'm all for the umpires being strict on the holding the ball rule but you have to take into account prior opportunity. I thought Hayward was stiff especially as he had his arm held. And then 1 minute later the same situation happens and the Eagles player had an arm free to handball but no free kick. You could hear the boos from the small crowd.

[Mark26]

Some of those dubious holding the ball calls need to go our way too.

[mcs]

These umps are killing us.

The umpiring in that quarter would make Clarko proud.... they must have thought it was Hawthorn of about 2015 out there. Dreadful. That holding the ball call against Hayward...:rofl

I like how we are trying to play the game, but skill errors are absolutely killing us.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm all for the umpires being strict on the holding the ball rule but you have to take into account prior opportunity. I thought Hayward was stiff especially as he had his arm held. And then 1 minute later the same situation happens and the Eagles player had an arm free to handball but no free kick. You could hear the boos from the small crowd.

Yep spot on Mel. Exactly the same situation. If your going to apply the rule in that way, it has to be applied that way every time.

Between the umpiring and Dwayne's open dribbling in the commentary box.

[Bexl]

F...ing umps Hayward had no prior but @@@@head Clarkson who controls the afl gets whatever he wants.

[Blood Fever]

Some of those dubious holding the ball calls need to go our way too.

Commentators not objective. Hayward holding the ball was preposterous. Mouthpieces for the AFL.

[dejavoodoo44]

WTF Aliir!!!! How can you not take control of the ball?

Though he was looking directly into the sun m

[mcs]

F...ing umps Hayward had no prior but @@@@head Clarkson who controls the afl gets whatever he wants.

And no possible way to dispose of the ball legally when he went to ground in the tackle. What is he supposed to do in such a circumstance?

[Foreign Legion]

I agree with all the above about holding the ball - although I reckon it is better this week than it has been all year.

We are making some mistakes sure, but we are moving it on quickly in most cases. I'd love to see a quick movement from a kick in from a behind.

Kennedy and Rowbottom doing well...Rowbottom was not sited much in 1/4 but did well in that. Blakey showing a better game IMHO

[Blood Fever]

I agree with all the above about holding the ball - although I reckon it is better this week than it has been all year.

We are making some mistakes sure, but we are moving it on quickly in most cases. I'd love to see a quick movement from a kick in from a behind.

Kennedy and Rowbottom doing well...Rowbottom was not sited much in 1/4 but did well in that. Blakey showing a better game IMHO

Considering we have no regular key forwards, going okay. Effort there. Quick game style is the right strategy. Turning it over a bit too much.

[Nico]

Our poor disposals have let us down. Florent is great at kicking over the head of a leading player and we continually turn it over by hand balling to a player's feet.

[dejavoodoo44]

I'm all for the umpires being strict on the holding the ball rule but you have to take into account prior opportunity. I thought Hayward was stiff especially as he had his arm held. And then 1 minute later the same situation happens and the Eagles player had an arm free to handball but no free kick. You could hear the boos from the small crowd.

Yes, you could argue that if your arm is a half-nelson before getting the ball, then it's your free kick. Also watching Rampe's duel with Kennedy. Kennedy is getting away with a lot of crap.

[Foreign Legion]

I will be bold and call for a big 2nd half from Dawson - I hope anyway. HFF and free to roam should be his spot I think.

[rickmat]

We have some passengers!!! And they are a couple of the guys brought in - Ronke, Clark. Minimal contribution and just are not up to it. Pity some of our young talent not tried, even against West Coast. Nothing to lose

[Nico]

Already a wreck ... Clarke looked like he didn't know about holding the ball rule ... advertised it like the lemon he is ... Hayward marks ... ignores my plea to kick it forward ... loses ball in middle ... Allir ... what? had enough already ... Florent ... forgot him ... just not a good thinker

Hayward is very soft at the contest. Does he really want to be out there? Absolute liability down back.

[mcs]

Hayward is very soft at the contest. Does he really want to be out there? Absolute liability down back.

I can't see how he will ever be an effective defender - doesn't read the play effectively at all from what I've seen.

[stellation]

That Hayward decision was terrible, I have no idea how he could have legally disposed of that ball. If they're saying he decided to take possession (of a ball that basically just fell in his lap) then they need to pay it all over the ground.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm enjoying the game overall, it's been quite entertaining. :)

[stellation]

I can't see how he will ever be an effective defender - doesn't read the play effectively at all from what I've seen.

I like the idea of trying him in the backline, he has excellent physical attributes to be an attacking defender but he seems to be thrown in the deep end and playing quite deep (hard to tell on the TV).

[Ludwig]

Obviously we have some players down on form and we've made some critical errors, but overall the team looks to be working fairly well together. I think the game style is coming along. We just need to improve on the execution. We've had our opportunities at centre bounces to win a few more of those contested balls than we did, despite the overwhelming advantage the WCE have in the ruck.

We have a serious height disadvantage at both ends of the ground, so we're going to get hurt on the scoreboard. But around the ground, I think we've done well in that first half. The mistakes by some of our players is disappointing, but I'm taking the first half as a positive.

[Scottee]

Now that holding the ball is being paid without prior opportunity no one wants to take possession. Net result congestion. The one going going for the ball is penalised, contrary to the object of the game.

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[troyjones2525]

I was going to be critical of Clarke as he has been pretty ordinary with his disposals and decision making as usual. But I forgot that he is probably doing a job on someone and the Commentators reminded me he was on Gaff, who's having his quietest game of the year. So job well done I guess!

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[waswan]

Hayward has a the physical presence of a 12yr old

Kicking long is what West Coast want us to do, need to pick them off

[caj23]

I was going to be critical of Clarke as he has been pretty ordinary with his disposals and decision making as usual. But I forgot that he is probably doing a job on someone and the Commentators reminded me he was on Gaff, who's having his quietest game of the year. So job well done I guess!

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He still can’t handball properly, how can our coaching staff continue to overlook that?

[troyjones2525]

In other news, the Hayward experiment needs to end this week...

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[caj23]

I like Hayward but he shouldn’t be anywhere near the senior team at the moment. I doubt Longmire will drop him though

[troyjones2525]

He still can’t handball properly, how can our coaching staff continue to overlook that?Agree. As I said, his disposal and more annoyingly, his decision making is poor at best.

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[Swannette]

Getting a little ugly now. NIC Nat is killing us on his own. They seem much slicker and with better decision making. More experienced side so not unexpected.


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[jono2707]

I fully expect to be struck down by lightning or something but I reckon Kennedy has had a stinker...

[waswan]

No reason we couldnt easily debut 3 next week..... I can see about 8 that could step aside

[Blood Fever]

I fully expect to be struck down by lightning or something but I reckon Kennedy has had a stinker...
You are kidding, surely

[stellation]

We looked so much more comfortable late in that quarter with Dawson guiding the ball out of defence.

[troyjones2525]

I was happy enough when we picked up Gray as I thought he was a good player for Port but he has been pretty much useless for us so far this year.

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[mcs]

Had to turn the sound off that quarter... the bleating barracking of Russell was too much for me.... suprised the screen didn't go a milky white colour at some stage.

Very poor quarter but we are getting no ball from the centre, so no suprise we are under enormous pressure.

[jono2707]

You are kidding, surely

I'm not, but I am judging him by his lofty standards. Some shocking turnovers from him today. It's just not happening for him - although he's such a pro he could well turn it all around in the last quarter.

[Mark26]

Terrible last two quarters by us. The first was strong, except for a few choice turnovers and missed set shots. For the second and third, we've been a training squad, playing WC into form. This will be the catalyst for their season. We think we are a slick Ferrari FXX with our overuse of the handball, whereas in reality, we are move more like a Dato 120Y at times.

[Mel_C]

Really disappointing game. We just look helpless and have no idea what to do. The lack of a ruckman is really hurting us. And there's too much handballing.

I'm over Derwayne's commentary!

[dejavoodoo44]

Just thought I'd share a bit of idiot officialdom. For a crowd that's about a tenth capacity, they've decided that everyone should be on the side of the ground, where your retinas are getting increasingly cooked, staring into the afternoon sun. At halftime, people started to wander over into the shady side. I was just about to join them, when I noticed security moving everybody back into the sun. Grrrr!

[Mark26]

Really disappointing game. We just look helpless and have no idea what to do. The lack of a ruckman is really hurting us. And there's too much handballing.

I'm over Derwayne's commentary!

They're not even talking about the Swans. It's like we don't even exist.

[waswan]

Circle work

[i'm-uninformed2]

Dawson’s kicking skills only reveal how deficient we generally are in that regard.

[Bexl]

Had to turn the sound off that quarter... the bleating barracking of Russell was too much for me.... suprised the screen didn't go a milky white colour at some stage.

Very poor quarter but we are getting no ball from the centre, so no suprise we are under enormous pressure.
Dwayne Russell is the worst commentator in AFL by a long way even worse than b t

[Swannette]

Heeney having another quiet game


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[Merdo5555]

We are the form team of the competition...the team that plays others into form.

So many players out of form, some poor list choices coming home to roost.

[RoyalCommission]

Blakey is @@@@e


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[troyjones2525]

Amartey has to debut next week. At least he'll compete!

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[snajik]

They're not even talking about the Swans. It's like we don't even exist.

it's unbearable week after week. imagine life without a mute button.

[troyjones2525]

We are bad. But I guess this isn't unexpected.

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[Blood Fever]

They're not even talking about the Swans. It's like we don't even exist.

Turned the sound down during second quarter after they endorsed the Hayward holding the ball decision

[troyjones2525]

Mcinerney looks unfit. As soon as he has to defend he looks awfully slow!

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[Industrial Fan]

This is going to be an ugly last 10 minutes. We are absolutely spent.

Still think those few minutes before qtr time turned the game - as a young team we got no reward for what was a really good start.

[troyjones2525]

This is going to be an ugly last 10 minutes. We are absolutely spent.

Still think those few minutes before qtr time turned the game - as a young team we got no reward for what was a really good start.+1

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[stellation]

We can probably just move to being mattrowellandwhiteonline.com for the rest of the afternoon.

[Swannette]

I know McInerney is a young kid but his decision making a couple of times today has been really bad. Yes pressure and all but look at the mullet from the dogs last week - slick as. He will get better.


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[snajik]

Mcinerney looks unfit. As soon as he has to defend he looks awfully slow!

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i reckon he's had a real crack today. he's probably exhausted. Pretty sure he's still a teenager so he won't get everything right just yet.

[waswan]

We need our defensive height back
Ramps as a lockdown has been a waste his whole career

when the mids are getting smashed surely Heeney becomes a midfielder, why waste him forward

[lwjoyner]

not only mcinerney, most of the team JK and Lp to start with. How u guys can say rowbottom has got it I don't know. Ali should never go near the ruck again, let him improve his skills as a back man. Gray should go the way of taylor and take ronke with him. This is becoming embarrassing. Clark is another whose paper should be marked, let this yrs crop of newees have ago, could not do any worse. Maybe the coaches also need to learn a bit. Who is on Yo, nobody I assume, may be I should have asked for the refund. I did not even get my hat delivered, and I cant even access my details on the web page .

[Wardy]

I just can’t get into this season - I might just ignore it from now on.

[bloodspirit]

Beaten by a better side on the day. Improved showing on last week.

[Wardy]

And Dwayne Russell has really done my head in !!!

[bloodspirit]

Allen, Waterman and Duggan good kids for WC.

[waswan]

Anyone know Hewitts role today ?
Seems to be playing deep fwd alot.

Horse just seems petrified of making a midfielder out of anyone

[troyjones2525]

Anyone know Hewitts role today ?
Seems to be playing deep fwd alot.

Horse just seems petrified of making a midfielder out of anyoneYep. Heeney and Mills included.

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[stevoswan]

We are the form team of the competition...the team that plays others into form.

So many players out of form, some poor list choices coming home to roost.

Ah yes, hindsight......makes us all experts.😒

[troyjones2525]

not only mcinerney, most of the team JK and Lp to start with. How u guys can say rowbottom has got it I don't know. Ali should never go near the ruck again, let him improve his skills as a back man. Gray should go the way of taylor and take ronke with him. This is becoming embarrassing. Clark is another whose paper should be marked, let this yrs crop of newees have ago, could not do any worse. Maybe the coaches also need to learn a bit. Who is on Yo, nobody I assume, may be I should have asked for the refund. I did not even get my hat delivered, and I cant even access my details on the web page .I agree with some of what you said here but not about Rowbottom. He's gonna be a player, he has heart, he's hard at at and should only get better the more he plays.

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[caj23]

This is going to be an ugly last 10 minutes. We are absolutely spent.

Still think those few minutes before qtr time turned the game - as a young team we got no reward for what was a really good start.

Even though the Eagles were a man down for the game

[Captain]

And Dwayne Russell has really done my head in !!!

Agreed. He is shocking!!!

[mcs]

How u guys can say rowbottom has got it I don't know.


:clap: I needed a good laugh, thanks for that. That kid is an absolute gun. Amongst our best in a very disappointing performance.

[mcs]

Agreed. He is shocking!!!

I'm glad I turned him off - I couldn't put up with any more of his outwards masturbation over Wet Toast. Just embarrasing to listen to.

[Daisi]

Yes I can't really get into this season at all. I muted the TV, cannot handle the West Coast bias in the commentary. I don't think we're playing too badly, but this all seems just like a training drill. I'd like to see us use this season as a trial for some of our younger players to see who has got what it takes, and who hasn't. I'm a bit concerned about Haywood. Seems his decision making is all over the shop.

Anyway, it's all part of development.

[stevoswan]

Turned the sound down during second quarter after they endorsed the Hayward holding the ball decision
Just stick with ABC Grandstand.....they said 'no prior' and were shocked the free was paid. Don't know why anyone bothers with TV commentary....

[Captain]

So frustrating that Heeney and Mills don’t get more midfield time. Heeney is totally wasted forward. His kick to Papley in junk time was exactly why he would be so damaging playing mid.

[mcs]

So frustrating that Heeney and Mills don’t get more midfield time. Heeney is totally wasted forward. His kick to Papley in junk time was exactly why he would be so damaging playing mid.

Yep, hard to disagree. I know we are short of options down back perhaps, but they have to try Mills as a midfielder for mine. Heeney should be also playing more in midfield then he does.

[Blood Fever]

Ah yes, hindsight......makes us all experts.😒

The usual suspects have lined up again..We are going through growing pains and a lot of young players will be better off for the experience. Ruck and Reid and Buddy missing a massive problem.

[bloodspirit]

Agree that Ronke, Gray not deserving their spots. No point picking youngsters if they're not ready. I'd like to see Warner come in next week. He seems to have shown the best form of the draftees so far. Maybe try Foot too? I hope they don't bring Squizzy back. what's the point after just one week out and no scratch match?

[snajik]

Eagles may have been a man down but they were pretty much close to full strength, unlike us. Hard work for our mids to play without a recognised ruckman when they have one of the very best in the league.

[jono2707]

So frustrating that Heeney and Mills don’t get more midfield time. Heeney is totally wasted forward. His kick to Papley in junk time was exactly why he would be so damaging playing mid.

Hear hear. It's an absolute must that they get more midfield time from now on. Heeney especially thrives on the contest and is not a full forward. He needs to be given more opportunities to shape the game in the middle, and deliver more passes like that into the 50.

And Hayward can have a rest. He's stinking it up this year.

[Mel_C]

This is going to be an ugly last 10 minutes. We are absolutely spent.

Still think those few minutes before qtr time turned the game - as a young team we got no reward for what was a really good start.

Yes that's what I think too. The Eagles lifted and you could see their confidence was back and ours fell away.

[waswan]

No other team worries about robbing fwd or defence to help a midfield.

Build a midfield then worry about the rest

Mills and Heeney are stars, they will never be regarded as elite they way we waste them

[Markwebbos]

I think they have to play players in their best position and then figure out the rest even if that means bringing in newbies fwd and in defence.

So play Heeney and Mills on the ball and throw Gould / whoever I’m at the deep end. I’m not convinced Mills is a natural defender anyway.

Release the shackles horse!

[707]

Season gone, we're not making finals, so use it as a time to get games into those that will be part of a resurgence like Will Gould. Don't want to see us playing other teams cast offs at the expense of giving kids game time, they could hardly add much less.

McInerney needs to develop more awareness, sold a number of players into trouble today.

Think we'll have a very good draft pick after this weekend is done, should be high enough to get a player before a bid comes for Campbell, a nice double dip I'm hoping :-)

[rb4x]

Ludwig at least got the chance today to see how we go when ruckless.

[Nico]

Dawson’s kicking skills only reveal how deficient we generally are in that regard.

He repeatedly makes decision making errors with ball in hand. That time in the last quarter where he dodged the man on the mark, got clear then tried to stab a kick that was smothered. I have said many times, "why doesn't he roost it". I thought he was going to have a shot for goal. He is either poorly coached or lacks the nous to make good decisions. Very disappointing to me. Clearly doesn't like being under the ball as a forward so might as well play him back.

[giant]

And Dwayne Russell has really done my head in !!!

His commentary was repugnant.

Result wasn't any different to what I expected - played it clever(ish) for first half but the dam was always going to break. You can't be missing all of your ruckmen and all of your tall forwards and expect to win a game. That said, lot of chaps looked really shattered by the end - probably due to playing constant play on footy in the first half I guess (which they had to do, it was our only chance).

[Mel_C]

I'm glad I turned him off - I couldn't put up with any more of his outwards masturbation over Wet Toast. Just embarrasing to listen to.
The worst was for Nic Nat. He wasn't even playing against a ruckman. It was very embarrassing.

[giant]

Allen, Waterman and Duggan good kids for WC.

I really liked Allen's game - I wonder what it would take to get him out of WCE? Waterman & Duggan very good as well.

[Nico]

Mcinerney looks unfit. As soon as he has to defend he looks awfully slow!

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That's because he was knackered. I thought he worked hard all game like Rowbottom. Those 2 boys were competing right to the end.

[aardvark]

Hayward even worse as a defender. Need a real ruckman who doesn't get injured. At least we've won two more games than I thought we would. Lets see if we can play the Tiges back into form next week.

[Blood Fever]

His commentary was repugnant.

Result wasn't any different to what I expected - played it clever(ish) for first half but the dam was always going to break. You can't be missing all of your ruckmen and all of your tall forwards and expect to win a game. That said, lot of chaps looked really shattered by the end - probably due to playing constant play on footy in the first half I guess (which they had to do, it was our only chance).

+1

[snajik]

That's because he was knackered. I thought he worked hard all game like Rowbottom. Those 2 boys were competing right to the end.

Yep. Thought they were two of our best. Had a go all day and tried to make something happen. I think we need to remember just how early in their careers they are. Less than 20 games for Rowbottom so far and I think that was McInerny's 5th. Both showing considerable promise.

[waswan]

Blakey was better up the ground, there are very few Key Fwds in the comp taking contested marks in the Fwd 50, so a slightly built kid with poor service has no chance. Put him on the wing

[stevoswan]

As if the game wasn't depressing enough.....I came home from work to read this thread. The negativity is almost galling.
For a little perspective, here's who's out injured atm: Franklin, Reid, Naismith, Sinclair, Brand, McCartin.
Here's who has left us or retired in the past few seasons: Goodes, Mitchell, McVeigh, Jack, Smith, Grundy, Hannerbury, Jones, Newman, Nankervis, Johnson.....need I go on?
We are rebuilding, it's going to take some time....get used to it and get some perspective. I inferstamd that no one likes losing but a bit of 'glass half full' would be refreshing.

- - - Updated - - -

That would be "I understand that no one likes losing" etc.

[Captain]

That's because he was knackered. I thought he worked hard all game like Rowbottom. Those 2 boys were competing right to the end.

Agreed. That’s the beauty of playing kids. The effort is there. We need more of it.

[Ludwig]

Ludwig at least got the chance today to see how we go when ruckless.I wouldn't mind having another ruckman, but we don't have any open spots on our injury list.

As for the game, I don't know what people expect from us. We have no ruckman, playing against the most physically dominant ruckman in the comp. And we don't have a forward line. We were terribly undersized in defence against 4 tall forwards.

Gray, Ronke and Clarke can't dispose of the ball quickly enough or accurately enough to play a fast game.

I would persist trying to play Hayward into form. We can't just drop our more talented players, or we just won't a future. Maybe Hayward can play more midfield, and force him to get involved in the game.

There's little we can do about the ruck and forward line at the moment, but we should try to get our defence organized in anticipation of next season. We have the numbers on our list, but they're just young. We will get hurt in the short term, but we're going to lose most of our games anyway. We have to focus on development and forget the ladder this season. In fact, as has been stated, a low finish will ensure that we can get in a first round pick before Campbell.

[dimelb]

That's because he was knackered. I thought he worked hard all game like Rowbottom. Those 2 boys were competing right to the end.

Agree with you about those youngsters, especially Rowbottom.
I was disappointed with Allir, at one point early on like a little old lady who'd dropped her purse, and not even trying to keep Nic Nat honest for stretches of time.
As someone said earlier, we were never going to win with the loss of so many talls.
And our field kicking was too often off the mark, while the Wet Toast was on the whole much more accurate.
We might do better at the draft ...

[stevoswan]

I wouldn't mind having another ruckman, but we don't have any open spots on our injury list.

As for the game, I don't know what people expect from us. We have no ruckman, playing against the most physically dominant ruckman in the comp. And we don't have a forward line. We were terribly undersized in defence against 4 tall forwards.

Gray, Ronke and Clarke can't dispose of the ball quickly enough or accurately enough to play a fast game.

I would persist trying to play Hayward into form. We can't just drop our more talented players, or we just won't a future. Maybe Hayward can play more midfield, and force him to get involved in the game.

There's little we can do about the ruck and forward line at the moment, but we should try to get our defence organized in anticipation of next season. We have the numbers on our list, but they're just young. We will get hurt in the short term, but we're going to lose most of our games anyway. We have to focus on development and forget the ladder this season. In fact, as has been stated, a low finish will ensure that we can get in a first round pick before Campbell.

Now that's perspective.....thanks Ludwig.👍

[troyjones2525]

Blakey was better up the ground, there are very few Key Fwds in the comp taking contested marks in the Fwd 50, so a slightly built kid with poor service has no chance. Put him on the wing+1

He is not ready to be a key forward so shouldn't be played there! Whether we need one or not! He was a gun in the middle as a junior, show a bit of bloody flair Horse and throw him in there!

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[troyjones2525]

And as if this day of football couldn't get any worse, Rowell goes down with a bad shoulder injury...

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[Ruck'n'Roll]

I'm glad I turned him Russell off - I couldn't put up with any more of his outwards masturbation over Wet Toast. Just embarrasing to listen to.

Do you think he and Bruce actually make 'Guitar Solo' faces when commentating?

[rickmat]

As if the game wasn't depressing enough.....I came home from work to read this thread. The negativity is almost galling.
For a little perspective, here's who's out injured atm: Franklin, Reid, Naismith, Sinclair, Brand, McCartin.
Here's who has left us or retired in the past few seasons: Goodes, Mitchell, McVeigh, Jack, Smith, Grundy, Hannerbury, Jones, Newman, Nankervis, Johnson.....need I go on?
We are rebuilding, it's going to take some time....get used to it and get some perspective. I inferstamd that no one likes losing but a bit of 'glass half full' would be refreshing.

- - - Updated - - -

That would be "I understand that no one likes losing" etc.

Could not agree more, this comment puts the Swans situation in real perspective

[stevoswan]

And as if this day of football couldn't get any worse, Rowell goes down with a bad shoulder injury...

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....and the Suns are getting flogged to boot. Time to see how much fortitude they have.

[i'm-uninformed2]

And just to make our height challenges even bigger, apparently Melican did a groin

[troyjones2525]

And just to make our height challenges even bigger, apparently Melican did a groinReally? Well we are in real strife! Aliir back to defence! Amartey to debut!

What's another kick in the guts is us struggling in a time when there is going to be basically no junior footy so we'll be drafting high with less exposed form.

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[Mark26]

That's because he was knackered. I thought he worked hard all game like Rowbottom. Those 2 boys were competing right to the end.

Agreed. That’s the beauty of playing kids. The effort is there. We need more of it.

I was also impressed with Rowbottom and McInerney's efforts. They are part of our future.

[Kafka's Ghost]

Could not agree more, this comment puts the Swans situation in real perspective

Hear, hear. We have no fit ruckmen and our forward line is lacking any height at all. McLean competes and is a good mark, he shows promise but he’s played 7 games. We’re rebuilding, and it will take time. After last week the Eagles were always going to have a point to prove, too.

[mcs]

Do you think he and Bruce actually make 'Guitar Solo' faces when commentating?

No idea but I genuinally thought the screen would go white at some stage and a 'technical difficulties' message would appear :rofl:

[rojo]

I think you may be right re Heeney and Mills to the midfield. What is there to lose! It is too much for JPK and Parkes who no doubt are the first to be covered by the opposition and having Hewett tagging someone, where is the inside grunt coming from except for Rowbottom? I was disappointed with Florent today, he along with Lloyd and Cunningham, make that most of the others, are so easily pushed off the ball, out of the marking contest, guard space rather than getting in front or putting the body on the line. We had no effective talls today. What has happened to Dawson, he is a shadow of how he was playing at the end of last year and what does one say about Aliir, Blakey, Hayward and Melican!

I know the team was very undermanned today so it is probably amazing that we weren't smashed. When so many players have to be pushed around the ground so much, all the lines are unsettled and instead of playing confident football, the less experienced ones are either too concerned about where they should be and who the should be picking up or who should be going for the ball or be at the feet etc,.and the more experienced ones have to look after their team mates as well as the opposition. I give a tick today to Rowbottom and McInerney, they weren't perfect but they were giving what I like to see. Papley and Heeney, along with Parkes were doing their best and Rampe and Mills just didn't have enough support in the backline. Today we just didn't have enough experienced, in form players on the ground to carry the rest, against a good team which played well. What a difference even just Sinclair would have made.

[mcs]

Agreed. That’s the beauty of playing kids. The effort is there. We need more of it.

I was also impressed with Rowbottom and McInerney's efforts. They are part of our future.[/QUOTE]

I have said time and time again how good I think Rowbottom is. McInerney is an interesting one. Does some good stuff, but decision making seems below par at this stage. Definitely worth perservering with however.

[Nico]

Hear hear. It's an absolute must that they get more midfield time from now on. Heeney especially thrives on the contest and is not a full forward. He needs to be given more opportunities to shape the game in the middle, and deliver more passes like that into the 50.

And Hayward can have a rest. He's stinking it up this year.

I think starting Hayward back next week, right from the start, is the best move. Preferably 20 rows back in the stand.

[snajik]

....and the Suns are getting flogged to boot. Time to see how much fortitude they have.

Yet in the blink of an eye.......

[stevoswan]

Yet in the blink of an eye.......
True....it appears they have some fortitude after all.😁

[waswan]

Undermanned and out of position and injuries blah blah blah.

We have passengers getting games over kids, one is a top 5 pick. In the age of entitlement these guys need games.

Ronke, Cunningham, COR, Hayward, Gray..... How exactly are they holding out anyone. 10 possessions from an experienced player (consistently) may mean they deserve to be overlooked.

Harry C in the side as a run with ? Why, let a kid do that.

Stephens has the biggest tank at the club

[snajik]

So for season 2020 we've lost Smith, Grundy, McVeigh and Melican from the backline, Franklin, Reid and McCartin atm from the forward line, we have no ruckmen left, we have multiple players down on form. We have played some poor quarters but in the main we've been competitive. I question whether now is the ideal time to be bringing in debutants en masse. Maybe a staggered process would be better at the moment, and hope the incumbents play themselves into some form as others slowly return from injury. The best we can do is to stem the tide.

We could also do with some good luck.

[Blood Fever]

Undermanned and out of position and injuries blah blah blah.

We have passengers getting games over kids, one is a top 5 pick. In the age of entitlement these guys need games.

Ronke, Cunningham, COR, Hayward, Gray..... How exactly are they holding out anyone. 10 possessions from an experienced player (consistently) may mean they deserve to be overlooked.

Harry C in the side as a run with ? Why, let a kid do that.

Stephens has the biggest tank at the club

Cunningham playing a role in the backline. Was on Ryan and did ok.

[Ralph Dawg]

Beautiful day to watch the footy and Metricon is just an awesome ground. Now the bad news......

We have too many players not of AFL standard. Our midfield was slaughtered, not only by the ruck dominance but also through lack of execution and composure. Too often we would string together 2 or 3 hand passes with a final kick or hand pass needed to get into space being completely fluffed. Our lack of pace on the outside was obvious. Tackling pressure poor. JPK, Parks and Rowbottom were solid enough but with no helpers.

Our backline was spanked. Poor in the one on one contests. Rampe must pull his hair out every week with the lack of support. Lloyd racks up the touches as a link but really there is no one to run off him with any effect.

Our forward line suffers from opportunity. No point bombing it in when we are midgets but that's about all we can conjure up. At one point, Paps was outnumbered in a marking contest against McGovern and Barass. Most times we were outnumbered in attack because we had to push numbers into our beleaguered defence. Having said all this, the lack of forward tackling pressure was obvious, with the Eagles exiting defence with ease.

We obviously need our big men back. But our list is still very shallow, especially in the midfield and defence. Based on what I saw live today, Clarke, COR, Cunningham, Hayward, Gray, Melican, Aliir and Ronke would all struggle to hold their spots if we had any suitable replacements.

[Nico]

Beautiful day to watch the footy and Metricon is just an awesome ground. Now the bad news......

We have too many players not of AFL standard. Our midfield was slaughtered, not only by the ruck dominance but also through lack of execution and composure. Too often we would string together 2 or 3 hand passes with a final kick or hand pass needed to get into space being completely fluffed. Our lack of pace on the outside was obvious. Tackling pressure poor. JPK, Parks and Rowbottom were solid enough but with no helpers.

Our backline was spanked. Poor in the one on one contests. Rampe must pull his hair out every week with the lack of support. Lloyd racks up the touches as a link but really there is no one to run off him with any effect.

Our forward line suffers from opportunity. No point bombing it in when we are midgets but that's about all we can conjure up. At one point, Paps was outnumbered in a marking contest against McGovern and Barass. Most times we were outnumbered in attack because we had to push numbers into our beleaguered defence. Having said all this, the lack of forward tackling pressure was obvious, with the Eagles exiting defence with ease.

We obviously need our big men back. But our list is still very shallow, especially in the midfield and defence. Based on what I saw live today, Clarke, COR, Cunningham, Hayward, Gray, Melican, Aliir and Ronke would all struggle to hold their spots if we had any suitable replacements.

Spot on summary.

[crackedactor 01]

Better recruiting than us. Taylor, Gray , Clarke?? Not one of them is up to AFL standard. Our recruiting officer must be losing it and its time to find an replacement.

[AB Swannie]

First three first choice rucks injured. First three choice key forwards injured. Team already rebuilding after losing about 1000 games experience through retirement. Let’s be honest. We had almost no chance.

[Captain]

I thought Cunningham was pretty good. Locked down Ryan well and generally used the ball well.

[waswan]

I thought Cunningham was pretty good. Locked down Ryan well and generally used the ball well.

He is late 20s playing a lockdown role in a team no chance to play finals..... who cares put a kid in to do that

[Blood Fever]

He is late 20s playing a lockdown role in a team no chance to play finals..... who cares put a kid in to do that
On Liam Ryan? And shatter his confidence? Bit of realism needed I reckon. Ruck, forward line and midfield more of a problem than backline

[waswan]

On Liam Ryan? And shatter his confidence? Bit of realism needed I reckon. Ruck, forward line and midfield more of a problem than backline
Other teams have kids playing midfield against the best in the comp, their footballers let them play, take off the kid gloves

[MattW]

I'm glad I turned him off - I couldn't put up with any more of his outwards masturbation over Wet Toast. Just embarrasing to listen to.

The game was horrid, but less awful when muted.

- - - Updated - - -


That's because he was knackered. I thought he worked hard all game like Rowbottom. Those 2 boys were competing right to the end.

Right on.

[MattW]

I would persist trying to play Hayward into form. We can't just drop our more talented players, or we just won't a future. Maybe Hayward can play more midfield, and force him to get involved in the game.


I had the same position on Hayward until today. It's not just finding the ball; he's making errors whenever it is in his vicinity. His confidence is eroding. He looks lost. Demotion would be merciful and a chance for him to recuperate.

[Captain]

He is late 20s playing a lockdown role in a team no chance to play finals..... who cares put a kid in to do that

He is 26. Is that late 20’s?

I would be happy with another 5-6 years of a strong lock down small defender.

[waswan]

I had the same position on Hayward until today. It's not just finding the ball; he's making errors whenever it is in his vicinity. His confidence is eroding. He looks lost. Demotion would be merciful and a chance for him to recuperate.

He isnt hard enough, he is as athletic as Heeney who throws his body at every contest, Hayward side steps the hard stuff instead of jumping at everything

- - - Updated - - -


He is 26. Is that late 20’s?

I would be happy with another 5-6 years of a strong lock down small defender.

Prefer to see Gould or Warner have a crack.....

[The Big Cat]

I had the same position on Hayward until today. It's not just finding the ball; he's making errors whenever it is in his vicinity. His confidence is eroding. He looks lost. Demotion would be merciful and a chance for him to recuperate.

Hayward had 5 tackles and plenty of big spoils. Not as bad a game as it looked.

[Captain]

He isnt hard enough, he is as athletic as Heeney who throws his body at every contest, Hayward side steps the hard stuff instead of jumping at everything

- - - Updated - - -



Prefer to see Gould or Warner have a crack.....

I also want Gould and Warner to have a crack. Just not at the expense of Cunningham.

Plenty ahead of him to be dropped - Gray, Ronke, Clarke, Hayward, COR to start.

[Ludwig]

I had the same position on Hayward until today. It's not just finding the ball; he's making errors whenever it is in his vicinity. His confidence is eroding. He looks lost. Demotion would be merciful and a chance for him to recuperate.I know he's in poor form, but it's hard to know what to do about it. He was a skillful young player, who kicked well and took a strong mark. I don't think that just disappears. Our coaches have to find a solution.

We can't criticize all our players and drop them all, or we just won't have a team. Something has to be done to improve their weaknesses.

I thought we moved the ball well at times, even under heavy pressure. We need to keep at it until we can do it consistently well. It doesn't make it easy when we don't have any forward targets and the opposition is getting first use at most stoppages. Our contested work wasn't too flash either.

[waswan]

I also want Gould and Warner to have a crack. Just not at the expense of Cunningham.

Plenty ahead of him to be dropped - Gray, Ronke, Clarke, Hayward, COR to start.

Clarke at least tagged out AA gaff, Cunningham tagging Ryan isnt above a debutant.

Neither role is really, both guys may have tagged well but were lost with ball in hand

Eitherway, we have too many doing too little or what they are doing isnt beyond a debutant

[TheBloods]

Could essentially copy the same names every week.. Blakey, Ronke, Gray, O'Riordan, McInerney, Hayward, Cunningham all passengers who are found wanting as soon as the game's not on their terms. Our better players were far from dominant - Mills, Florent, Lloyd, Papley couldn't hit the side of a barn with some of their kicks. Somebody forgot to tell Dawson the season started. Aliir looks worse than he did his first year. Gone backwards. Wouldn't even be in most team's 22. Heeney just teases his talent but can't be arsed applying it.

Rowbottom a rare positive. McLean is a keeper. Kennedy and Parker's shoulders must be sore from carrying this hapless outfit.

[waswan]

I was hoping it would turn but Ronke is nearly at the point of trying another sport.... cant remember a decent game since the Hawks game

[MattW]

They were bigger and stronger us in the ruck and at both ends of the ground (although the Eagles' Kennedy has hit the cliff) - dominated us in the air and out-muscled us at ground level.

The club has botched the ruck position. We have known for a few years that Naismith is injury-prone, but all of his back-ups are undersized or green or both. There is only one true ruckman in the club, and he has freshly done an ACL. I know there's explanations for it and bad luck, but it's been a problem since we lost Tippett and it has not been addressed.

Some quick notes on the players:
- Interesting that Dawson played best when he went back to defence.
- Heeney's much improved last quarter came when he played in the middle.
- Mills showed in the first half why Longmire likes him back. We are certainly very thin back there.
- I don't think the chopping and changing of roles suits Aliir. He looks a bit lost at the moment.
- Some pretty poor efforts at times from Florent today. Disappointing.
- Improved showing from Blakey - let's let him work into that wing spot.
- We need a lot more from Cunningham and Hewett - they are under par this year.
- As noted above, Rowbottom and McInerney both tried hard and will develop into solid AFL players (Rowbottom possible better than that). The latter's decision-making will improve. He keeps wanting the ball. Rowbottom reliably attacks the ball and sticks his tackles.

I don't want to be harsh, but the following are not AFL-standard players: Ronke; Clarke; O'Riordan; Gray. I don't think there's any point in playing any of them. Probably not McLean either.

[neilfws]

Liked the first quarter. Rest of it made me wish I'd gone with Plan A, which was spend a sunny arvo in the backyard.

Eagles sure picked their day to come back into form. Swans lack of experience really shows on days like this. Just not enough players at the required level yet, basically. Forward line consisting of more or less just Papley isn't helping either.

I think it's just a matter of keep playing them, improvement will come with time. But it's going to be long, slow and at times painful to watch. That's just the reality of where the team is right now, after many years mixing it with the best.

[MattW]

I know he's in poor form, but it's hard to know what to do about it. He was a skillful young player, who kicked well and took a strong mark. I don't think that just disappears. Our coaches have to find a solution.

We can't criticize all our players and drop them all, or we just won't have a team. Something has to be done to improve their weaknesses.

I thought we moved the ball well at times, even under heavy pressure. We need to keep at it until we can do it consistently well. It doesn't make it easy when we don't have any forward targets and the opposition is getting first use at most stoppages. Our contested work wasn't too flash either.

I suspect his one-on-one defending and decision-making (whether with ball on hand on the mark, tackling, or passing in traffic) is not good enough for defence. I guess you could try to train that into him, but that's a lot of effort with a decent chance of it not sticking. He's not going to win enough ball in the midfield or on the wing. He's played his best footy forward, probably as a third tall with Buddy/genuine key forward in the team. Also, Heeney is a better version in the role. I don't know, maybe in this under-sized team we could play him forward out of the goal-square, although, again, I think Papley has been better in that role than Hayward would be.

[barry]

I think it's official: We are a rabble.

[Nico]

I know he's in poor form, but it's hard to know what to do about it. He was a skillful young player, who kicked well and took a strong mark. I don't think that just disappears. Our coaches have to find a solution.

We can't criticize all our players and drop them all, or we just won't have a team. Something has to be done to improve their weaknesses.

I thought we moved the ball well at times, even under heavy pressure. We need to keep at it until we can do it consistently well. It doesn't make it easy when we don't have any forward targets and the opposition is getting first use at most stoppages. Our contested work wasn't too flash either.

I don't think he has been the same since he got his jaw broken.

[goswannies]

I think it's official: We are a rabble.

The Crows are a rabble.

We are a team whose entire ruck division and tall forward contingent is completely decimated by injury and resorting to covering the deficiencies with undersized and inexperienced kids. On top of this, the midfield is probably transitioning. Perspective and tolerance might be prudent during this unprecedented season. The boys will be inconsistent. But there is potential for improvement and growth and that we can salvage some development of the list over the rest of the season, in preparation for 2021.

[Markwebbos]

Everyone - I believe - wants 2020 to be a year that moves us closer to a premiership. We disagree about how...

So assuming 2020 is a write off, what should we do from here?

[Blood Fever]

The Crows are a rabble.

We are a team whose entire ruck division and tall forward contingent is completely decimated by injury and resorting to covering the deficiencies with undersized and inexperienced kids. On top of this, the midfield is probably transitioning. Perspective and tolerance might be prudent during this unprecedented season. The boys will be inconsistent. But there is potential for improvement and growth and that we can salvage some development of the list over the rest of the season, in preparation for 2021.

Good post and too many on here ready to sink the botts in. Gleefully in some cases.

[waswan]

Agree we are not a rabble, we have injuries in areas we cant cover.

However, we are playing guys in front of others for no good reason and we continue to play guys out of position.

The only thing we are going to get out of Heeney playing forward is Mark of the Year, put him in the midfield, he can be elite, same for Mills.

[Melbourne_Blood]

The call for ‘play the kids’ is a bit tiresome. We are playing the kids, probably more than we should be to be competitive, but we don’t have much of a choice. You only have to look at the Suns history and carlton of a few years ago to see that playing a side too heavy on youth and thin on experience can really damage a teams progress and confidence. We don’t want to develop a losing culture and forget how to win. If Stephens was ready he’d be playing, he obviously isn’t. Same with Gould. I don’t see the need to rush these guys.

Didn’t see the game but the Eagles needed a win badly and they are (on paper) one of the best teams in the comp. we were ripe for the picking, and they put us away. Not a surprise, and we didn’t cop a severe hiding.

Richmond will probably do the same to us next week, but we will have a crack and we don’t roll over.


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[Ralph Dawg]

Agree we are not a rabble, we have injuries in areas we cant cover.

However, we are playing guys in front of others for no good reason and we continue to play guys out of position.

The only thing we are going to get out of Heeney playing forward is Mark of the Year, put him in the midfield, he can be elite, same for Mills.
There was a moment late in the 4th when Heeney won a clearance and kicked with precision to hit Paps on the chest for a subsequent goal. I agree that he could be elite as could Mills. If we could stem the bleeding in the middle, then we take the pressure off both ends.... ... ....

[Captain]

There was a moment late in the 4th when Heeney won a clearance and kicked with precision to hit Paps on the chest for a subsequent goal. I agree that he could be elite as could Mills. If we could stem the bleeding in the middle, then we take the pressure off both ends.... ... ....

Exactly. Mills is needed down back because the ball is always down there. If we fix our midfield then that won't happen as much!

[KTigers]

Exactly. Mills is needed down back because the ball is always down there. If we fix our midfield then that won't happen as much!

Agreed. Mills is a defender and a good one at that. Let's not mess up the program any more than we have to. With no rucks and a
struggling midfield, we need our best defenders defending. The ball is going to be coming in there a lot this year.

[snajik]

The last fortnight has also seen a dip in form from Florent. His first three games were very good, he was winning a lot of inside ball and his decision making and delivery were sharp which was really helping in the midfield. Hopefully he finds his groove again soon.

[waswan]

Floreant is having the same issues Zak Jones had last year, he is breaking lines and looking up at no options

He is fine, getting the ball and taking the game on, also alot tougher at the ball than last year. He is tracking well

[0918330512]

Floreant is having the same issues Zak Jones had last year, he is breaking lines and looking up at no options

He is fine, getting the ball and taking the game on, also alot tougher at the ball than last year. He is tracking well
Another difference is Ollie isn’t pouty & grumpy, doesn’t turn the ball over as much, gives away fewer free kicks and doesn’t like the trip to Melbourne to spend time with the tribunal people.

[Mountain Man]

You only have to look at the Suns history and carlton of a few years ago to see that playing a side too heavy on youth and thin on experience can really damage a teams progress and confidence.

How many top 10 draft picks have they both had over the last 5-10 years, but they are still struggling to be competitive and consistent. Those draft picks are performing no better than our list who are comparable in age and experience. If Stephens and Gould and Warner etc are to be blooded with games lets be sure they are not bloodied as well

[dejavoodoo44]

The Crows are a rabble.

And it seems that a major component of them becoming a rabble, was their infamous 2018 preseason camp. This recent article gives a few more details.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/inside-the-camp-that-brought-down-the-adelaide-crows-20200630-p557od.html

When the story first broke, I remember having a look at the Collective Mind website, to see what sort of psych qualifications, those running the program had. I found plenty of psychobabble, but no qualifications. Though I suppose that it's possible, that the founder of the company, did a psych module or two, as part of his business degree. But that would hardly be enough, to justify the inflated claims that they were making.

[neilfws]

And it seems that a major component of them becoming a rabble, was their infamous 2018 preseason camp. This recent article gives a few more details.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/inside-the-camp-that-brought-down-the-adelaide-crows-20200630-p557od.html

I thought that was an interesting read. Sam McClure getting plenty of stick on Twitter from (a) upset Crows fans, (b) people wondering why this is still news (answer - took this long to coax out all the details) and of course (c) people who just want to have a go at Sam McClure. But I thought it was a good article, well-researched. Particularly the quotes from real psychologists along the lines of "if your aim is to build resilience, these techniques are the worst way to go about it."

[barry]

From grand finalist to rabble in 2 years is a mighty fall.

- - - Updated - - -

(crows)

[AB Swannie]

The call for ‘play the kids’ is a bit tiresome. We are playing the kids, probably more than we should be to be competitive, but we don’t have much of a choice. You only have to look at the Suns history and carlton of a few years ago to see that playing a side too heavy on youth and thin on experience can really damage a teams progress and confidence. We don’t want to develop a losing culture and forget how to win. If Stephens was ready he’d be playing, he obviously isn’t. Same with Gould. I don’t see the need to rush these guys.

Didn’t see the game but the Eagles needed a win badly and they are (on paper) one of the best teams in the comp. we were ripe for the picking, and they put us away. Not a surprise, and we didn’t cop a severe hiding.

Richmond will probably do the same to us next week, but we will have a crack and we don’t roll over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel like we should be friends. Exactly how I feel. The evidence is clear Horse isn’t afraid to play “the kids”. Culture should be built on hard work and respect. A quick way to fracture an entire team culture is to give away team spots based on draft position.

[dejavoodoo44]

I thought that was an interesting read. Sam McClure getting plenty of stick on Twitter from (a) upset Crows fans, (b) people wondering why this is still news (answer - took this long to coax out all the details) and of course (c) people who just want to have a go at Sam McClure. But I thought it was a good article, well-researched. Particularly the quotes from real psychologists along the lines of "if your aim is to build resilience, these techniques are the worst way to go about it."

Yes, and I would argue that the story is still relevant, because it was an abuse of power, and that the more details that emerge about abuses of power, the less likely they are to happen again. Which is perhaps the central role of good journalism?

[Melbourne_Blood]

I feel like we should be friends. Exactly how I feel. The evidence is clear Horse isn’t afraid to play “the kids”. Culture should be built on hard work and respect. A quick way to fracture an entire team culture is to give away team spots based on draft position.

[emoji106]


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[Ludwig]

From grand finalist to rabble in 2 years is a mighty fall.

(crows)Not at all like us. We've taken 3 years.

[Meg]

Luke’s partner posted photo of Luke today on Insta. Luke has a closed and swollen right eye and a large shiner, courtesy of yesterday’s match I assume. Hope he is recovered for next week.

[Ralph Dawg]

The call for ‘play the kids’ is a bit tiresome. We are playing the kids, probably more than we should be to be competitive, but we don’t have much of a choice. You only have to look at the Suns history and carlton of a few years ago to see that playing a side too heavy on youth and thin on experience can really damage a teams progress and confidence. We don’t want to develop a losing culture and forget how to win. If Stephens was ready he’d be playing, he obviously isn’t. Same with Gould. I don’t see the need to rush these guys.

Didn’t see the game but the Eagles needed a win badly and they are (on paper) one of the best teams in the comp. we were ripe for the picking, and they put us away. Not a surprise, and we didn’t cop a severe hiding.

Richmond will probably do the same to us next week, but we will have a crack and we don’t roll over.


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In the context of a normal season, what you say makes sense. Several points that makes 2020 unique:
1) There are players in the team who have been in the system (or others) for a while now without showing the ability to play consistent footy. 1 decent game followed by 3-4 quiet ones.
2) There is no Neafl to develop our young talent.
3) Shortened quarters should favour blooding younger guys who often struggle to maintain intensity.
4) What does season 2020 really mean anyway? So many disruptions / distractions.

With all that in mind, I favour giving more of our youngsters a run.

[waswan]

Good time to play Richmond
Cotchin Prestia Nank Houli Edwards and Lynch all out

[Markwebbos]

Yes, and I would argue that the story is still relevant, because it was an abuse of power, and that the more details that emerge about abuses of power, the less likely they are to happen again. Which is perhaps the central role of good journalism?

Sam included some well chosen quotes from Adelaide hierarchy, including Ricciuto very recently, saying the camp had nothing to do with the loss of form and player exodus, and then demonstrates how it did. I thought its absolutely news.

[dejavoodoo44]

Sam included some well chosen quotes from Adelaide hierarchy, including Ricciuto very recently, saying the camp had nothing to do with the loss of form and player exodus, and then demonstrates how it did. I thought its absolutely news.
Yes, and the speed of Adelaide's fall has been remarkable. And that speed makes it likely that there's more reasons for it, than say, lack of draft picks or key injuries. So, stories looking at those reasons are relevant.

And despite our hoodoo against the Crows, they've often been my second favourite side. So, I'm actually a bit said that they've become such a mess. I'd also like to see ex-Swan, Matthew Nicks, have some success.

[Kafka's Ghost]

Not at all like us. We've taken 3 years.

We’re not a rabble. We’re young, inexperienced, and haven’t got a fit player over 185cm tall. After watching the Freo - Adelaide game today, we’re on a far better trajectory.

[giant]

Hayward had 5 tackles and plenty of big spoils. Not as bad a game as it looked.

I'm with you, thought it was the best he'd looked for a while. Has some things to learn about backline craft and positioning your body but that will come.

[Ralph Dawg]

I'm with you, thought it was the best he'd looked for a while. Has some things to learn about backline craft and positioning your body but that will come.
I was sitting right on centre wing, could almost see the whites of his eyes, which looked like the figurative deer when he had to make a few decisions.........

[Mr Magoo]

I was sitting right on centre wing, could almost see the whites of his eyes, which looked like the figurative deer when he had to make a few decisions.........

Yeah hardest thing for a natural forward playing backline is deciding when you have to stick with your man and when you can actually attack the ball. As a forward you are used to just attacking the ball as it comes in. Can be quite hard for many natural forwards to adjust to.

[waswan]

Yeah hardest thing for a natural forward playing backline is deciding when you have to stick with your man and when you can actually attack the ball. As a forward you are used to just attacking the ball as it comes in. Can be quite hard for many natural forwards to adjust to.

Put him on the Wing, pit some suze on him and give him a tank. He has the same build Fyfe had, all shoulders, V back.

Ollie has come thru by being consistently played on the wing.

I wouldnt say he us a natural Fwd, he has been blessed playing alongside Buddy and Ried taking all the defences attention, most of his goals are over the back, he never kicks anything like Paps, in play, thats a natural forward.

[stevoswan]

Sam included some well chosen quotes from Adelaide hierarchy, including Ricciuto very recently, saying the camp had nothing to do with the loss of form and player exodus, and then demonstrates how it did. I thought its absolutely news.

Ricciuto could be the problem.....for him to say the camp had nothing to do with their fall is frankly delusional. To me, he has always come across as confrontational and devisive.....and not the sort of 'administrator' that brings people together. He administrates the way he played.....like a battering ram.....and with arrogance. The 'club legend' tag doesn't instantly make you a good leader off the field. One needs to inspire those around them.....not frighten them into compliance.

[Mr Magoo]

Put him on the Wing, pit some suze on him and give him a tank. He has the same build Fyfe had, all shoulders, V back.

Ollie has come thru by being consistently played on the wing.

I wouldnt say he us a natural Fwd, he has been blessed playing alongside Buddy and Ried taking all the defences attention, most of his goals are over the back, he never kicks anything like Paps, in play, thats a natural forward.

I think Hayward played his junior career up forward so I guess when I say natural forward , I meant in that context. He's not a small forward in the mould of papley (Hayward is 187cm after all) but he has shown earlier in his career that he has a reasonable grab and kick but he looks out of sorts at the moment. He did have 5 tackles which was second only to Kennedy so that indicates the effort is their but the form isnt.

Wing might be the position but Im not sure if he is truly the jet that you need down the flanks. Half back flank would seem a natural fit for his build and his major attributes and at least then you could free Mills into the midfield. I think its worth perservering. Hes not adding anything up forward except tackle pressure.

If their were more options and times were different , a stint in the NEAFL would probably do him some good to get his confidence up but naturally thats not an option and scratch matches against GWS arent the answer in my view for building confidence.

All those calling for Gould et al to be included , I think we need a reality check. They have had little senior football and you can expect that they will get smashed at AFL level and Im not sure thats really that good for their confidence going forward. Gould is probably the only one for me that is built for seniors at this stage but not sure that he has set the world on fire in the scratch matches.

[waswan]

Forward as Junior without being too tall really just means your athletic or dont have a tank.

Midfielder as a junior means your committed, fit and tough

Defender as a junior witjoit being too tall means your smart and good ball user


Checkout this "Natural Midfielder"
Weakness is his ability to play other positions

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.zerohanger.com/2015-afl-draft-prospects-callum-mills-2038/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwi41fjS4LfqAhUJyjgGHQcNDQQQFjADegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2uHCbFZstZAvdPc0se-XYq&ampcf=1&cshid=1594008699955

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.zerohanger.com/2015-afl-draft-prospects-callum-mills-2038/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwi41fjS4LfqAhUJyjgGHQcNDQQQFjADegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2uHCbFZstZAvdPc0se-XYq&ampcf=1&cshid=1594008699955

[Markwebbos]

Forward as Junior without being too tall really just means your athletic or dont have a tank.

Midfielder as a junior means your committed, fit and tough

Defender as a junior witjoit being too tall means your smart and good ball user


Checkout this "Natural Midfielder"
Weakness is his ability to play other positions

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.zerohanger.com/2015-afl-draft-prospects-callum-mills-2038/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwi41fjS4LfqAhUJyjgGHQcNDQQQFjADegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2uHCbFZstZAvdPc0se-XYq&ampcf=1&cshid=1594008699955

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.zerohanger.com/2015-afl-draft-prospects-callum-mills-2038/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwi41fjS4LfqAhUJyjgGHQcNDQQQFjADegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2uHCbFZstZAvdPc0se-XYq&ampcf=1&cshid=1594008699955

Arrgghhh

Great hands. If one thing could come from 2020 after Horse’s comment last week, please let him give Mills a run in the midfield

[Mr Magoo]

Arrgghhh

Great hands. If one thing could come from 2020 after Horse’s comment last week, please let him give Mills a run in the midfield

Yeah , good hands but gotta say not that great a kick. Very loopy and not much penetration.

[Markwebbos]

Yeah , good hands but gotta say not that great a kick. Very loopy and not much penetration.

Which makes his current role even more I’ll-suited!

[Mr Magoo]

Which makes his current role even more I’ll-suited!

Agreed. If his highlights reel is any indication, then half back flank is not his ideal role

[jono2707]

Which makes his current role even more I’ll-suited!

Always was, and always will be, a ball winning inside mid. Just don't think Horse ever got the memo.