AFL (non-Swans) off-season moves - 2022 edition

[caj23]

In response to KTigers, apparently if you're a Victorian team you can have everything

Melbourne are looking at adding Brodie Grundy, without losing anyone, while Richmond think they can get Taranto and Hopper this off season, the Cats want Grundy and Hopper

FWIW it seems we had the cap space to keep Jordan, he just preferred to live in Adelaide

[RogueSwan]

In response to KTigers, apparently if you're a Victorian team you can have everything

Melbourne are looking at adding Brodie Grundy, without losing anyone, ... I'm pretty sure they are planning on bringing him in because Jackson wants to go to Freo

...while Richmond think they can get Taranto and Hopper this off season...Is that if that get Dusty's millions off their books?

[barry]

... while Richmond think they can get Taranto and Hopper this off season, the Cats want Grundy and Hopper



Richmond are funny. They have been shopping Dusty around simply because he's going to take $1.3m per year of cap space for the next two years because of a back ended contract.
Surely they werent expecting anyone to take him for that. He's now a $600k player at best due to his injury issues and age. If anyone took him, Tiges would be paying almost half you'd think... and thats a good deal for them.

They may get Taranto and Hopper, but they'd need to offload dusty, and probably delist one of Cotchin or Reiwoldt. I can see why Richmond are into them, their old midfield of Cotchin and Martin are stuffed as seen in the EF.
But I'm not sure the answer is to replace them with a midfield made up of the B list midfield of a team that finished 15th. (Assuming they are behind Kelly, Tom Green, and Ward, Coniglio which could be debatable)

Suffice to say, if Dusty stays at the tiges, then they may attract one half decent player, but they wont be a contender for a while.

[barry]

Melbourne are looking at adding Brodie Grundy

Thats a real mismatch of team for player. They would be far better going after an Amartey or similar fringe ruckman/forward.

[KTigers]

In response to KTigers, apparently if you're a Victorian team you can have everything

Melbourne are looking at adding Brodie Grundy, without losing anyone, while Richmond think they can get Taranto and Hopper this off season, the Cats want Grundy and Hopper

FWIW it seems we had the cap space to keep Jordan, he just preferred to live in Adelaide

The interesting thing I've noticed is all this talk of Hopper "going home". Well, Hopper is from Leeton. I've been there (it's a nice
town actually) a couple times and one thing I did notice about it is that it's in NSW. It's not actually a suburb of Melbourne or a
town next to Geelong. This Vic centric-ness thing is really getting ridiculous. Now they (or at least their media) are claiming
towns that aren't even in Victoria.

[caj23]

So according to reports, Richmond think they can keep Dusty and recruit Tarranto and Hopper.

If they can manage that (as well as Lynch on big $'s) the "you have to lose players every year" brigade might have to change their tune

[Ludwig]

So according to reports, Richmond think they can keep Dusty and recruit Tarranto and Hopper.

If they can manage that (as well as Lynch on big $'s) the "you have to lose players every year" brigade might have to change their tune
Surely Shai Bolton must have signed for big money. And they still have Dion Prestia, who I think is on around 800k, for another 2 years.

Why do some clubs seem to have a bottomless pit, filled of cash?

[Captain]

Bloody Geelong and Richmond seem to be involved in everything. Very suss.

[liz]

Salary cap aside, I reckon Richmond would struggle to get just one of Hopper and Taranto in trade-wise, let alone both. GWS are supposedly asking for two first round picks for the out of contract Taranto. Hopper's trade value probably isn't that far off Taranto's, particularly since he is still in contract. Two first round picks is a bit vague since there's a wide difference in value between pick 1 and pick 18. But Cerra went for pick 5 (6?) last year, which sets a reasonable standard for the kind of value of a decent but not top tier midfielder. Richmond doesn't have the threat of using the PSD to drive down trade value in the way the Crows have done in recent years.

As things stand, Richmond have picks 12, 19, 30 and some very late ones. By re-signing Cotchin and Riewoldt for next season they are signalling that they aren't planning on (expecting) their first round pick next year to be in the first handful.

So who are they willing to trade out this off-season to give them the trade capital to acquire both Taranto and Hopper? My guess is they'll only be able to get one of the two.

[Captain]

Salary cap aside, I reckon Richmond would struggle to get just one of Hopper and Taranto in trade-wise, let alone both. GWS are supposedly asking for two first round picks for the out of contract Taranto. Hopper's trade value probably isn't that far off Taranto's, particularly since he is still in contract. Two first round picks is a bit vague since there's a wide difference in value between pick 1 and pick 18. But Cerra went for pick 5 (6?) last year, which sets a reasonable standard for the kind of value of a decent but not top tier midfielder. Richmond doesn't have the threat of using the PSD to drive down trade value in the way the Crows have done in recent years.

As things stand, Richmond have picks 12, 19, 30 and some very late ones. By re-signing Cotchin and Riewoldt for next season they are signalling that they aren't planning on (expecting) their first round pick next year to be in the first handful.

So who are they willing to trade out this off-season to give them the trade capital to acquire both Taranto and Hopper? My guess is they'll only be able to get one of the two.

I have heard Ivan Solo mentioned.

[liz]

I heard his name too, but he's hardly blue-chip trade currency. GWS want another ruckman so they may accept him as partial payment for one of Hopper or Taranto but he's not going to be a straight swap for either.

[Captain]

Solo + Pick 12 for one of them
Pick 19 + future first for the other?

[gloveski]

Solo + Pick 12 for one of them
Pick 19 + future first for the other?

Be pretty close I reckon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[barry]

Solo + Pick 12 for one of them
Pick 19 + future first for the other?

Giants want two first round picks. I dont think Solo is a first round pick, and not sure why Giants would want another ruckman on their list, they have heaps.
Pick 12 + future first round. or
Pick 12 and 19 + future 2nd/3rd round

[707]

Can't see any way that Richmond can get both Taranto and Hopper this year, don't have enough draft capital.

Also note that all 2022 picks will get pushed out by up to three early F/S matching and a Norf PP. Pick 12 will be become pick 13, pick 19 could end up pick 23. Our two first rounders will get pushed out one to four spots.

GWS won't want precious salary absorbing Richmond rejects either and Soldo is one of those.

[Captain]

Can't see any way that Richmond can get both Taranto and Hopper this year, don't have enough draft capital.

Also note that all 2022 picks will get pushed out by up to three early F/S matching and a Norf PP. Pick 12 will be become pick 13, pick 19 could end up pick 23. Our two first rounders will get pushed out one to four spots.

GWS won't want precious salary absorbing Richmond rejects either and Soldo is one of those.

Taranto isn't that good. Don't get me wrong, he is solid, but is certainly no star.

[Ludwig]

Hopper has officially asked to be trade to Richmond. So the double midfielder trade is on, I gues.

This is the way it gets done for Taranto and Hopper. Richmond give up picks 12 + 18 +19 + 2023 first rounder. How did Richmond get pick 18, you might ask? We traded it to them for Noah Balta.

Is everybody happy?

[bloodspirit]

Hopper has officially asked to be trade to Richmond. So the double midfielder trade is on, I gues.

This is the way it gets done for Taranto and Hopper. Richmond give up picks 12 + 18 +19 + 2023 first rounder. How did Richmond get pick 18, you might ask? We traded it to them for Noah Balta.

Is everybody happy?

Where are we going to play Noah?

[bloodspirit]

Must sting Giants fans to read "Hopper, who has always had interest in joining a big Melbourne-based club.": Giant plus for Richmond Tigers as mid Jacob Hopper chooses Punt Rd as new home (https://www.afl.com.au/news/838679/giant-plus-for-tigers-as-mid-chooses-punt-rd-as-new-home). I would smart at that if it were said about someone wanting to defect from the Swans. Wasn't Hopper in their leadership group? Wasn't he also an graduate of their 'Academy'? Or was he just in their 'zone'? I'm disgusted if it's true that he's always wanted to join a "big Melbourne-based club".

[Ludwig]

Where are we going to play Noah?It's a good question. It's a question that answers more than it asks. And the fact that you can ask such a good question shows just how solid a team we've become.

Noah can play forward, back and in the ruck, so a great player to have on our list. If we can't fit Noah on our list, then we shouldn't be in the trade game this year, and that's probably the case.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Hopper has officially asked to be trade to Richmond. So the double midfielder trade is on, I gues.

This is the way it gets done for Taranto and Hopper. Richmond give up picks 12 + 18 +19 + 2023 first rounder. How did Richmond get pick 18, you might ask? We traded it to them for Noah Balta.

Is everybody happy?

I would be. He's an explosive athletic beast. And to those that subsequently asked, if a certain forward retires at the end of the year, there we go. (I reckon he's slightly more natural as a defender, but hey)

[707]

You're not getting Balta for pick 18, end of fantasy.

Even if Richmond give GWS all their available picks, currently 12, 19, 30 and next years first a likely mid/late teens first rounder, that doesn't seem sufficient for Taranto and Hopper. GWS won't want Richmond list cloggers.

Gives GWS a mighty draft hand though, they'll likely trade later picks for Brisbane's first.

Talk is that next year's draft is much stronger than this years.

[Markwebbos]

I can’t see how Tigers can afford these two on top of Dusty’s Uber salary and surely no other club is stupid enough to take his salary on?

So I’m guessing Dusty retires and/or does a Hogan and tears his contract up to play somewhere else.

[Markwebbos]

Dusty’s just confirmed he’ll be at the Tigers next year!

[dawson]

Currently, we're the only team with 2 first-round draft picks. We have Melbourne's first round pick which came via the Dawson trade. If they go out in straight sets, it will be pick 14. Given how many teams would love that pick or our own first round pick (hopefully 18!!) it puts us in a great position. We could get something fantastic in return for it.

[Aprilbr]

Bloody Geelong and Richmond seem to be involved in everything. Very suss.I recently posted this on the Trade thread but it seems more relevant here:

"I wish we had a salary cap like Richmond who can have players like Lynch and Dusty on mega deals and then can apparently still afford to bring in GWS stars, Taranto and Hopper, on big contracts. Call me a cynic but I'm pretty confident they have found a way to circumvent the Cap - probably through sponsor- connected payments in kind."

[sharp9]

To put a couple of cents in here…Taranto is crap. I have never seen him dominate a game. Ever. I can’t even recall him doing any “wow” moments like Chad or Blakey or Serong or at 20 young midfielders I could reel off the top of my head. 7 years at $700G apparently. Absolute madness

[dawson]

To put a couple of cents in here…Taranto is crap. I have never seen him dominate a game. Ever. I can’t even recall him doing any “wow” moments like Chad or Blakey or Serong or at 20 young midfielders I could reel off the top of my head. 7 years at $700G apparently. Absolute madness

It is. Let them do deals like this so it takes hold of their salary cap and they're forced to dump good players.

[707]

Dusty’s just confirmed he’ll be at the Tigers next year!

Was always just a click bait story that gave the media something to talk about for four months. Buddy's contract negotiation was a fizzer for the media compared to the Dusty non story.

- - - Updated - - -


I recently posted this on the Trade thread but it seems more relevant here:

"I wish we had a salary cap like Richmond who can have players like Lynch and Dusty on mega deals and then can apparently still afford to bring in GWS stars, Taranto and Hopper, on big contracts. Call me a cynic but I'm pretty confident they have found a way to circumvent the Cap - probably through sponsor- connected payments in kind."

The same applies to Geelong, players sign on for unders but apparently get into lucrative can't fail property deals in the Geelong area. Pies have dodgy media deals via Maguire.

Richmond have had a few retirements and Cotchin and Jack have taken big pay cuts in their new one year deals. More interest is how they get Taranto and a contracted Hopper trades done. It will give GWS a powerful draft hand, pity they have to draft Vic kids!

[Mark26]

Was always just a click bait story that gave the media something to talk about for four months. Buddy's contract negotiation was a fizzer for the media compared to the Dusty non story.

- - - Updated - - -



The same applies to Geelong, players sign on for unders but apparently get into lucrative can't fail property deals in the Geelong area. Pies have dodgy media deals via Maguire.

Richmond have had a few retirements and Cotchin and Jack have taken big pay cuts in their new one year deals. More interest is how they get Taranto and a contracted Hopper trades done. It will give GWS a powerful draft hand, pity they have to draft Vic kids!

GWS are caught in this sick cycle each year. They draft impressive talent and develop them only to inevitably lose them. They are essentially a feeder club for the Vic establishment. It must be dispiriting. I think it's like losing Dawson every year.

[KTigers]

GWS are caught in this sick cycle each year. They draft impressive talent and develop them only to inevitably lose them. They are essentially a feeder club for the Vic establishment. It must be dispiriting. I think it's like losing Dawson every year.

I think it's really hard for them to create a footy environment out there, the type of environment that up-and-coming players think they'll
end up in as they come through the ranks. They live in a city that doesn't live and breathe Australian Rules. They grow up dreaming of
running out on the MCG in front of 50,000 baying fans not 7,000 fairly quiet fans, a lot of who are pretty new to footy.
Leon Cameron talked about how frustrating it was to see this exodus of three or four AFL level players every year. We of course weren't in
any better shape in our eleventh season. Their situation is a really hard one to fix. You need a buy-in from the players that is not money
driven, and you need a buy-in from the fans too.
A lot of footy fans, or should I say attenders, are very fickle. We saw that this year at the SCG. 44,000 for the Collingwood game when
we were travelling well, and 22,000 for the Bulldogs game when we weren't.

[chalbilto]

Was always just a click bait story that gave the media something to talk about for four months. Buddy's contract negotiation was a fizzer for the media compared to the Dusty non story.

- - - Updated - - -



The same applies to Geelong, players sign on for unders but apparently get into lucrative can't fail property deals in the Geelong area. Pies have dodgy media deals via Maguire.

Richmond have had a few retirements and Cotchin and Jack have taken big pay cuts in their new one year deals. More interest is how they get Taranto and a contracted Hopper trades done. It will give GWS a powerful draft hand, pity they have to draft Vic kids!


Hopper is a NSW boy from Leeton and he still wants to go to a Melbourne club.

[KTigers]

[/B]

Hopper is a NSW boy from Leeton and he still wants to go to a Melbourne club.

Yep. I posted about him the other day. We have benefitted a bit over the years from footballers wanting to
get out of the "Vic footy bubble". But for every player wanting to leave the bubble, there are probably ten players
wanting to get into it. Hopper is clearly one. He said as much yesterday. A lot of the GWS exodus are players
like him. They can't wait to be living footy 24/7 and then some. It's exactly the same for 20-somethings in
the music industry and film industry. They like "the life".

[Ludwig]

GWS are caught in this sick cycle each year. They draft impressive talent and develop them only to inevitably lose them. They are essentially a feeder club for the Vic establishment. It must be dispiriting. I think it's like losing Dawson every year.Having created these 2 expansion teams, the AFL have a responsibility to stop this relentless bleeding of talent from GWS and GC. They are killing their own children through neglect.

The AFLPA won't like it, but some additional costs have to be imposed on the acquiring clubs. Or some additional incentives should be given to GWS and GC which would enable them to retain players. Surely there are experts in this field who can come up with something. It's more than 10 years now and these problems persist.

Why are they on the brink of adding another expansion club when they still haven't worked out the problems with the last 2?

[RogueSwan]

... Or some additional incentives should be given to GWS and GC which would enable them to retain players. Surely there are experts in this field who can come up with something...

Giants coterie group? Maybe one that has interests in property?

[barry]

Having created these 2 expansion teams, the AFL have a responsibility to stop this relentless bleeding of talent from GWS and GC. They are killing their own children through neglect.


Giants managed to eek out a fairly successful 2016-2019 period, but it cant be sustained, and the poaching eventually caught up with them.
Richmond have ripped the heart out of Gold Coast, and now taking aim at GWS. They must really hate expansion.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I obviously don't know if this is precisely right, but if it is even in the ball park, it confirms Geelong rort things.

The idea one of the best full forwards in the game accepts less than $300K without side deals is crap.

“This is what Geelong do”: Hawkins’ shock 2023 salary revealed (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/09/this-is-what-geelong-do-hawkins-shock-2023-salary-revealed/)

[Ludwig]

I obviously don't know if this is precisely right, but if it is even in the ball park, it confirms Geelong rort things.

The idea one of the best full forwards in the game accepts less than $300K without side deals is crap.

“This is what Geelong do”: Hawkins’ shock 2023 salary revealed (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/09/this-is-what-geelong-do-hawkins-shock-2023-salary-revealed/)
It's long been said that the Geelong vets take a discount from market value to keep them in contention. If that's the case, good on 'em. But the AFL need to investigate to possibility of side deals that rort the system. They are supposed to be doing this as a matter of course.

At least we know what we should be offering Buddy. He's not as good as Hawkins.

[RogueSwan]

I obviously don't know if this is precisely right, but if it is even in the ball park, it confirms Geelong rort things.

The idea one of the best full forwards in the game accepts less than $300K without side deals is crap.

“This is what Geelong do”: Hawkins’ shock 2023 salary revealed (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/09/this-is-what-geelong-do-hawkins-shock-2023-salary-revealed/)


This is what Geelong do though, they promise you the be$t lifestyle away from footy.

As I have posted elsewhere, Ross Lyon pretty much confirmed (on the MMM Sunday rub a few weeks ago) there are side deals. Not specifically for Geelong, but clubs that need to get someone over the line not purely on salary.

[i'm-uninformed2]

It's long been said that the Geelong vets take a discount from market value to keep them in contention. If that's the case, good on 'em. But the AFL need to investigate to possibility of side deals that rort the system. They are supposed to be doing this as a matter of course.

At least we know what we should be offering Buddy. He's not as good as Hawkins.

Oh, I don't doubt there are discounts to stay competitive and in contention. But there's a discount, and there's playing for peanuts when you're still one of the best players in the game.

[dejavoodoo44]

Oh, I don't doubt there are discounts to stay competitive and in contention. But there's a discount, and there's playing for peanuts when you're still one of the best players in the game.

I've no idea of the veracity of what McClure is saying, but if the figure is true, it's essentially claiming that Hawkins is taking a pay cut of around $500,000 in order to live on a farm. While I don't know much about Melbourne geography, I suspect that there's a fair few farms that aren't too much of an onerous drive from the MCG.

[Bloods05]

Having created these 2 expansion teams, the AFL have a responsibility to stop this relentless bleeding of talent from GWS and GC. They are killing their own children through neglect.

The AFLPA won't like it, but some additional costs have to be imposed on the acquiring clubs. Or some additional incentives should be given to GWS and GC which would enable them to retain players. Surely there are experts in this field who can come up with something. It's more than 10 years now and these problems persist.

Why are they on the brink of adding another expansion club when they still haven't worked out the problems with the last 2?

Tassie isn't really an "expansion" team. The support is already there, pretty much guaranteed. It is very likely that having their own team will help rebuild footy in Tassie at the lower levels. GWS and GC are attempts to create something out of virtually nothing, simply by spending vast amounts of money.

The AFL has shown itself to be quite unwilling to do what is necessary to set up new teams in these environments.

They need look no further than the example set by the Swans from the Barassi era onward: build a strong organisation, well-managed, with a clear identity and sense of unity and purpose. Add a few incentives such as CoLA and the occasional draft concession. Ignore the likes of Eddie McGuire who are incapable of seeing beyond self-interest, and be prepared to take time to build it rather than looking for instant success.

Every new team in the competition's history has taken time to establish itself. Ten years is nothing.

[Aprilbr]

As I have posted elsewhere, Ross Lyon pretty much confirmed (on the MMM Sunday rub a few weeks ago) there are side deals. Not specifically for Geelong, but clubs that need to get someone over the line not purely on salary.The AFL needs to invest some of their new TV rights deal money in a boosted Salary Cap enforcement regime that uses forensic techniques to uncover these side deals. The integrity of the Cap is critical and its rorting by Clubs like Geelong, Collingwood and Richmond is undermining the competition. This is a high order priority!

[liz]

The AFL needs to invest some of their new TV rights deal money in a boosted Salary Cap enforcement regime that uses forensic techniques to uncover these side deals. The integrity of the Cap is critical and its rorting by Clubs like Geelong, Collingwood and Richmond is undermining the competition. This is a high order priority!

It wouldn't be very hard to audit properly if the will to do so was there.

[Agent 86]

Hopper is a NSW boy from Leeton and he still wants to go to a Melbourne club.

He went to boarding school in Ballarat, so will have ol’ mates down there, perhaps?

It’s gonna cost Richmond a bomb. Don’t know how do they do it.

[Agent 86]

It wouldn't be very hard to audit properly if the will to do so was there.

Yes! But the “will to do so” is the key.

Appears that it’s only when it becomes Carlton-esque in its proportions that they’ll stamp down on it.

Probably goes on everywhere I guess - not just down there.

[gloveski]

There is talk that the new tv rights will add a significant raise in the salary caps for clubs . Maybe Richmond is banking on this and are going to back end long term deals


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Markwebbos]

There is talk that the new tv rights will add a significant raise in the salary caps for clubs . Maybe Richmond is banking on this and are going to back end long term deals


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s the way the Buddy deal got done

[stevoswan]

Giants managed to eek out a fairly successful 2016-2019 period, but it cant be sustained, and the poaching eventually caught up with them.
Richmond have ripped the heart out of Gold Coast, and now taking aim at GWS. They must really hate expansion.

No, they just love themselves.....and to hell with everybody else, especially the vulnerable.

[mcs]

https://www.afl.com.au/news/841328/twomey-the-new-bargaining-tool-set-to-shape-trade-period

Usual AFL.com.au garbage, but this part made for interesting reading. I hope this is not where the game heads - but I guess it will happen - and I feel like the example given was a little too convenient just to be made up on the spot....

During last year's Trade Period, some clubs enquired with the League about whether they could directly pay contracts of players who remain at other clubs in exchange for a draft pick.

They weren't allowed, but it is clearly where clubs see things heading.

As an example, it could allow Essendon to use its salary cap room to pay $500,000 of Luke Parker's deal at Sydney in exchange for one of the Swans' first-round picks. It would alleviate any salary cap pressure faced at the Swans, make use of the Dons' money and also see them buy a pick.

Restrictions could be enforced to ensure the best teams do eventually hit their cap – for example, a limit of one player per club having their salary paid by another – but it is the clear next step in the trade marketplace.

Expect it to be a topic in coming weeks as clubs use cap space to get deals done.

[Markwebbos]

https://www.afl.com.au/news/841328/twomey-the-new-bargaining-tool-set-to-shape-trade-period

Usual AFL.com.au garbage, but this part made for interesting reading. I hope this is not where the game heads - but I guess it will happen - and I feel like the example given was a little too convenient just to be made up on the spot....

During last year's Trade Period, some clubs enquired with the League about whether they could directly pay contracts of players who remain at other clubs in exchange for a draft pick.

They weren't allowed, but it is clearly where clubs see things heading.

As an example, it could allow Essendon to use its salary cap room to pay $500,000 of Luke Parker's deal at Sydney in exchange for one of the Swans' first-round picks. It would alleviate any salary cap pressure faced at the Swans, make use of the Dons' money and also see them buy a pick.

Restrictions could be enforced to ensure the best teams do eventually hit their cap – for example, a limit of one player per club having their salary paid by another – but it is the clear next step in the trade marketplace.

Expect it to be a topic in coming weeks as clubs use cap space to get deals done.

At what does the cap become null and void if clubs take on salaries like that? Although it Is a form of equalisation.

[liz]

At what does the cap become null and void if clubs take on salaries like that? Although it Is a form of equalisation.

Not a form of equalisation likely to create 18 fairly even lists each year.

Maybe it makes sense in the big US leagues where players are mostly drafted at age 21 after a few years in a high level college programme, but our draft remains a crapshoot of 18 year olds who still have a huge way to go in their physical development. If a club is willing to sell a significant portion of its salary cap just to get a draft pick, they're giving an opponent a leg up to retain its existing proven players and/or go after a free agent, all for a kid who may or may not be any good in a few years time. You only have to look back at past drafts to realise that the correlation between draft pick and great player isn't that strong.

If the league wanted a proper salary cap it should move the other way. Stop clubs picking up part of the contract value of a player they are trading away. So, for example, Collingwood would need to either live with the monster contract it signed Grundy to barely a year or two ago, or find another club willing to take the whole thing off their hands.

And then maybe limit the extent to which clubs can front or back load contracts.

(That's ignoring other potential inequalities of the cap, including the much higher cost of living in Sydney, retention issues of the newer clubs, side-deals etc).

[Markwebbos]

I think it might help clubs rebound faster when they’ve got a younger, cheaper list as they can effectively buy draft picks from clubs in the window with bulging salary caps.

[mcs]

But on the other hand Mark, it also then may facilitate the best teams 'loading up' on even more elite talent when they are at the top and facing a salary cap squeeze. Yes it would be a case of selling the future farm for the case of immediate success - but if that means you can win 3,4,5 flags in a premiership window, clubs will do it.

[Markwebbos]

For once I think this favours the poorer clubs because they don’t have to dump salary and can pick and choose. The clubs who have to shed $$ less so when they offload players who aren’t earning their chunk of the salary cap e.g. Hanners, Grundy etc.

If the club with space picks well they can get a pick and a player e.g. Brodie and pick 19 for a future second rounder.

The danger is that clubs park players on their list for a year or two before offloading them

[Maltopia]

But on the other hand Mark, it also then may facilitate the best teams 'loading up' on even more elite talent when they are at the top and facing a salary cap squeeze. Yes it would be a case of selling the future farm for the case of immediate success - but if that means you can win 3,4,5 flags in a premiership window, clubs will do it.

They can limit how much salary is paid by another team, and how many draft picks can be sold, like they have rules that require you to use a number of first draft picks every couple of years (so you can't keep trading them away).

We are a young team that doesn't need a lot of draft picks given our age profile, so why not sell one of our first or second rounders to Brisbane for example and get some money to square away Papley next year.

[Aprilbr]

I see Tanner Bruhn wants to go to Geelong - surprise, surprise! The team with the endless salary cap and a list full of players who are apparently happy to play for hundreds of thousands less than they can get elsewhere. I once lived in Geelong - its not that great!

It must be so frustrating for GWS to lose a relatively early draft pick player (12) after just two years.

In-demand Giants young gun keen on Geelong move - In-demand Giants young gun Tanner Bruhn keen on Geelong move (https://www.afl.com.au/news/841947)

[707]

I see Tanner Bruhn wants to go to Geelong - surprise, surprise! The team with the endless salary cap and a list full of players who are apparently happy to play for hundreds of thousands less than they can get elsewhere. I once lived in Geelong - its not that great!

It must be so frustrating for GWS to lose a relatively early draft pick player (12) after just two years.

In-demand Giants young gun keen on Geelong move - In-demand Giants young gun Tanner Bruhn keen on Geelong move (https://www.afl.com.au/news/841947)

Everyone knows about the can't fail property developments that Bruhn will get into once at Geelong. Everyone plays for unders at Geelong!

Salary cap fiddles that have been discussed in earlier posts are allowed by the AFL because it promotes player movement. Clubs are keen for picks for cap, clubs also keen on pick trading in RD, MSD, PSD, and trade picks without having to be in the same draft. So a club that wants pick 1 in the MSD could trade it in for a pick in the ND. Just let it rip I say, the smart clubs will benefit as they do currently.

I've got no idea why any club (I'm looking at you Dees) would want to assist the Pies who are now flag contenders by taking on Grundy, even if Pies do pay a portion of his massive salary. Let the Pies stew in their own mess I say.

GWS will end up with a mighty ND hand this year albeit on the downside of losing required players

[Aprilbr]

Everyone knows about the can't fail property developments that Bruhn will get into once at Geelong. Everyone plays for unders at Geelong!

Salary cap fiddles that have been discussed in earlier posts are allowed by the AFL because it promotes player movement. Clubs are keen for picks for cap, clubs also keen on pick trading in RD, MSD, PSD, and trade picks without having to be in the same draft. So a club that wants pick 1 in the MSD could trade it in for a pick in the ND. Just let it rip I say, the smart clubs will benefit as they do currently.

I've got no idea why any club (I'm looking at you Dees) would want to assist the Pies who are now flag contenders by taking on Grundy, even if Pies do pay a portion of his massive salary. Let the Pies stew in their own mess I say.

GWS will end up with a mighty ND hand this year albeit on the downside of losing required playersI can't believe the AFL "allows" them as it totally undermines the competition equalisation procedures that they have in place. The AFL are either not aware of these deals, or feel its too hard to prove them when girlfriends/relatives/trusted friends and external parties like club sponsors are involved.

While receiving early draft picks is some compensation for losing young stars, it can lead to an endless cycle of player development followed by requests to be drafted elsewhere once the player has 2 to 5 years experience. In some cases, the player stays in return for a huge long-term contract like Kelly, Coniglio etc. That's not a recipe for building a premiership team. GWS and Gold Coast know all about this but are almost helpless to prevent it.

[Roadrunner]

Not a form of equalisation likely to create 18 fairly even lists each year.

Maybe it makes sense in the big US leagues where players are mostly drafted at age 21 after a few years in a high level college programme, but our draft remains a crapshoot of 18 year olds who still have a huge way to go in their physical development. If a club is willing to sell a significant portion of its salary cap just to get a draft pick, they're giving an opponent a leg up to retain its existing proven players and/or go after a free agent, all for a kid who may or may not be any good in a few years time. You only have to look back at past drafts to realise that the correlation between draft pick and great player isn't that strong.

If the league wanted a proper salary cap it should move the other way. Stop clubs picking up part of the contract value of a player they are trading away. So, for example, Collingwood would need to either live with the monster contract it signed Grundy to barely a year or two ago, or find another club willing to take the whole thing off their hands.

And then maybe limit the extent to which clubs can front or back load contracts.

(That's ignoring other potential inequalities of the cap, including the much higher cost of living in Sydney, retention issues of the newer clubs, side-deals etc).

Good points Liz.
In the EPL and European soccer, they have the possibility to loan players who are under contract for up to a year, and sometimes with an option to then buy the player if they wish. During the loan period the loaned club pays the players salary. Could the AFL introduce such a system, or a variation? I don’t like the idea of contracted players switching clubs unless they are not given fair opportunities and can get games at a “lesser” club.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

I see Tanner Bruhn wants to go to Geelong - surprise, surprise! The team with the endless salary cap and a list full of players who are apparently happy to play for hundreds of thousands less than they can get elsewhere. I once lived in Geelong - its not that great!

It must be so frustrating for GWS to lose a relatively early draft pick player (12) after just two years.

In-demand Giants young gun keen on Geelong move - In-demand Giants young gun Tanner Bruhn keen on Geelong move (https://www.afl.com.au/news/841947)

Someone mentioned to me that Bruhn is one of the three picks that the Giants received when they lost Cameron to Geelong. Now one of them is already on his way back to Geelong and will play along side Cameron.

You can’t make this up [emoji2359]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Aprilbr]

Good points Liz.
In the EPL and European soccer, they have the possibility to loan players who are under contract for up to a year, and sometimes with an option to then buy the player if they wish. During the loan period the loaned club pays the players salary. Could the AFL introduce such a system, or a variation? I don’t like the idea of contracted players switching clubs unless they are not given fair opportunities and can get games at a “lesser” club.Generally, loaned players in soccer are developing players who are considered unlikely to get much first team game time at their current team. They are often loaned to teams in lower divisions or overseas for their development. If they are loaned to another team in the same division, then they are not permitted to play against the team they have come from. Some loan deals have a purchase option included at a set amount and others do not.

Personally, I cannot see how such a system would work in the AFL where there is only one major competition and a draft and salary cap system, and no player sales for $? Would Geelong loan a developing youngster to North on the basis that they get more senior game time there? North would want a sale option otherwise why would they bother investing in developing a player for another Club? They cannot acquire him unlike soccer as there is no mechanism to buy/sell players. Its good to think outside the square, Roadrunner, but I cannot see how it could work for our competition.

[Maltopia]

Generally, loaned players in soccer are developing players who are considered unlikely to get much first team game time at their current team. They are often loaned to teams in lower divisions or overseas for their development. If they are loaned to another team in the same division, then they are not permitted to play against the team they have come from. Some loan deals have a purchase option included at a set amount and others do not.

Personally, I cannot see how such a system would work in the AFL where there is only one major competition and a draft and salary cap system, and no player sales for $? Would Geelong loan a developing youngster to North on the basis that they get more senior game time there? North would want a sale option otherwise why would they bother investing in developing a player for another Club? They cannot acquire him unlike soccer as there is no mechanism to buy/sell players. Its good to think outside the square, Roadrunner, but I cannot see how it could work for our competition.

Also, who holds the can if eg., we had lent Stephens out earlier this year to a lower club and he got injured? Say an ACL? Our supporters would be spewing about that.

[707]

Also, who holds the can if eg., we had lent Stephens out earlier this year to a lower club and he got injured? Say an ACL? Our supporters would be spewing about that.

Wouldn't work, we have the VFL plus loaned players get all the game plan intel of a competitor.

[Ludwig]

Clubs seem to be putting up negligible resistance to player requests to be traded. Contract or no contract, it hardly seems to matter. Free agency is all but a joke now. Clubs are just accepting that their player gets to his destination and they will get the best deal they can. That's it.

This situation is extremely detrimental to non-Victorian clubs, especially GWS and GC. Lucky that the Swans have cultivated a destination club environment and a good alternative to get out of pressure cooker towns.

I reiterate that the AFL have to do something about this. The inequities are growing too large.

[Aprilbr]

Clubs seem to be putting up negligible resistance to player requests to be traded. Contract or no contract, it hardly seems to matter. Free agency is all but a joke now. Clubs are just accepting that their player gets to his destination and they will get the best deal they can. That's it.

This situation is extremely detrimental to non-Victorian clubs, especially GWS and GC. Lucky that the Swans have cultivated a destination club environment and a good alternative to get out of pressure cooker towns.

I reiterate that the AFL have to do something about this. The inequities are growing too large.A lot of commentators are saying this now, Ludwig. For example, Cornes, King and Whateley. The problem is it disproportionately benefits the big Melbourne clubs to allow this inequity to continue and they have too much influence. The so-called independent Commission needs to show some courage and do what's best for the competition. A retention allowance is critical, especially for the newer teams. Also, properly police the Cap and outlaw these side deals for players that the big clubs use to circumvent the Cap.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Clubs seem to be putting up negligible resistance to player requests to be traded. Contract or no contract, it hardly seems to matter. Free agency is all but a joke now. Clubs are just accepting that their player gets to his destination and they will get the best deal they can. That's it.

This situation is extremely detrimental to non-Victorian clubs, especially GWS and GC. Lucky that the Swans have cultivated a destination club environment and a good alternative to get out of pressure cooker towns.

I reiterate that the AFL have to do something about this. The inequities are growing too large.

Very true. I think it's notable that there is coverage in the papers today suggesting if Logue leaves, Freo won't let Lobb leave. We'll see if it is posturing or for real, but it suggests they know losing too many talls at once leaves their list unbalanced. I personally think Lobb is overrated and a mercenary who's been amazingly overpaid during his career, but would love to see the Dogs denied a preferred target. So, go Freo.

[Roadrunner]

Generally, loaned players in soccer are developing players who are considered unlikely to get much first team game time at their current team. They are often loaned to teams in lower divisions or overseas for their development. If they are loaned to another team in the same division, then they are not permitted to play against the team they have come from. Some loan deals have a purchase option included at a set amount and others do not.

Personally, I cannot see how such a system would work in the AFL where there is only one major competition and a draft and salary cap system, and no player sales for $? Would Geelong loan a developing youngster to North on the basis that they get more senior game time there? North would want a sale option otherwise why would they bother investing in developing a player for another Club? They cannot acquire him unlike soccer as there is no mechanism to buy/sell players. Its good to think outside the square, Roadrunner, but I cannot see how it could work for our competition.

True, April. I guess I’m just looking at possibilities as I really don’t like the current situation. Something needs to be done to rectify it and give the newer clubs a proper chance. Maybe force contracts to be honoured and also give first option for the club regarding draftees for a further 2 years?

[Ruck'n'Roll]

This situation is extremely detrimental to non-Victorian clubs, especially GWS and GC. Lucky that the Swans have cultivated a destination club environment and a good alternative to get out of pressure cooker towns.

I reiterate that the AFL have to do something about this. The inequities are growing too large.

I'm not convinced that this situation has been engineered. But one wonders whether a good proportion of the powers that be aren't extremely keen for for this situation to become the long term status quo. In exactly the same way as the country zone rotation stopped in VFL days - with the best zones surprisingly in the hands of the powerful clubs for perpetuity.


Good points Liz.
In the EPL and European soccer, they have the possibility to loan players who are under contract for up to a year, and sometimes with an option to then buy the player if they wish. During the loan period the loaned club pays the players salary. Could the AFL introduce such a system, or a variation? I don’t like the idea of contracted players switching clubs unless they are not given fair opportunities and can get games at a “lesser” club.
Actually the VFL did have such a system, and the Swans made use of it. We loaned Mathew Scarlett's father from Geelong on the eve of the finals, and then I think we "purchased" him outright the next year.

[Aprilbr]

True, April. I guess I’m just looking at possibilities as I really don’t like the current situation. Something needs to be done to rectify it and give the newer clubs a proper chance. Maybe force contracts to be honoured and also give first option for the club regarding draftees for a further 2 years?Agreed, RR, that the current situation is far from ideal. Too much power is now with the players, and some seem to want to move even when they are still under contract eg Lobb. Players leaving newish clubs just two years after being drafted to go to big Melbourne clubs is very disappointing and undermines the eveness of our competition.

This used to happen to us when we were a struggling club. From the early to late-90s, we lost early draft pick players of the calibre of Darren Gasper, Anthony Rocca, Shannon Grant and Adam Hueskes.The latter three were all in our squad when we managed to make the Grand Final in 1996 and their loss meant that the remaining squad never got back to the big game again. In most cases, they went to clubs from their home state and went onto good career elsewhere. Grant played over 300 games and won a Norm Smith medal in the 1999 GF for North. Rocco had a great career at Collingwood playing over 200 games and winning their goal-kicking four times.

By 2005, the vast majority of those guys had long since departed apart from Micky O, Maxfield etc. That 1996 team is below for interest. It should have won a flag but was gutted by departures and subsequent retirements. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220914/bd1112aa8c58e1defdb9ad714c6a6a81.jpg

[Aprilbr]

I'm not convinced that this situation has been engineered. But one wonders whether a good proportion of the powers that be aren't extremely keen for for this situation to become the long term status quo. In exactly the same way as the country zone rotation stopped in VFL days - with the best zones surprisingly in the hands of the powerful clubs for perpetuity.


Actually the VFL did have such a system, and the Swans made use of it. We loaned Mathew Scarlett's father from Geelong on the eve of the finals, and then I think we "purchased" him outright the next year.Good example on Scarlett Snr., RR. However, in those days it was pre the National Draft so players could be bought and sold for transfer fees much like soccer today. Thankfully, that is no longer allowed.

Someone recently asked me why a Club would happily take a player on a short-term loan in soccer when they might not even have a buy option. I gave the example of the promotion/relegation system in soccer which we thankfully also do not have.

Relegation in soccer is financially and psychologically devastating for Clubs so they will do anything to avoid the drop zone including bringing in a loan player to provide a short-term squad boost!

Our system is so different to soccer - no player trading for $, National Draft and Salary Cap, no promotion/relegation - that a move to a loan system would not work in my view. If I had my way, I would reinstate a retention allowance for Northern states with a bigger figure for newer clubs and make new draftees play for 3 years before having the capacity to change clubs.

[707]

Clubs seem to be putting up negligible resistance to player requests to be traded. Contract or no contract, it hardly seems to matter. Free agency is all but a joke now. Clubs are just accepting that their player gets to his destination and they will get the best deal they can. That's it.

This situation is extremely detrimental to non-Victorian clubs, especially GWS and GC. Lucky that the Swans have cultivated a destination club environment and a good alternative to get out of pressure cooker towns.

I reiterate that the AFL have to do something about this. The inequities are growing too large.

The VFL will do nothing about it, it suits them to have the big Malbourne clubs strong. I just wish they'd take a closer look at their salary caps, some seem bottomless

Also, the AFLPA is the tail that wags the dog to some extent and they want free movement of players which as we know hurts non traditional footy states and minnow Vic clubs.

[Aprilbr]

The VFL will do nothing about it, it suits them to have the big Malbourne clubs strong. I just wish they'd take a closer look at their salary caps, some seem bottomless

Also, the AFLPA is the tail that wags the dog to some extent and they want free movement of players which as we know hurts non traditional footy states and minnow Vic clubs.

Good points, Ludwig. Another constraint to consider is that the AFL is vulnerable to a restraint of trade legal action being taken by a disaffected player or the players association if it restricts movement too much. This was one of the rationales given for the introduction of free agency several years back despite a lot of Clubs opposing it at the time.

Our system of draft, salary cap etc has been loosely crafted on that found in the NFL which is arguably the most successful professional football competition globally. The last thing we want to see is the total dismantling of our equalisation measures, as imperfect as they appear to be. Imagine the AFL without these measures? The competition would be dominated by a few clubs and some would potentially become insolvent. We saw it almost get to this stage in the mid-1980s.

A cautionary tale would be to look at the world of soccer. The Bundesliga, Germany's main league, has had just two clubs, Bayer Munich and Dortmund, win all but three of the titles in the past 25 years with Bayern winning the past 10! The Scottish Premier League has been won by either Celtic or Rangers every season since 1985! I could go on. It would be an absolute disaster for us if the Cap/Draft mechanisms for AFL were to be overturned in our Courts!

[Nico]

Aprilbr: the biggest blunder by Eade was starting Kickett on the bench. We couldn't believe it because he was in top form going into the game. He brought him on late in the 2nd quarter, but alas it was too late. My self and the group that we went to the footy with dropped off Eade quick smart. He was too smart for his own good. If Derek had started they wouldn't have seen us for dust.

[Blood Fever]

Aprilbr: the biggest blunder by Eade was starting Kickett on the bench. We couldn't believe it because he was in top form going into the game. He brought him on late in the 2nd quarter, but alas it was too late. My self and the group that we went to the footy with dropped off Eade quick smart. He was too smart for his own good. If Derek had started they wouldn't have seen us for dust.

My memory of it was that Kickett was on his last legs and had been struggling in the finals. We should have been in front by even more than we were but we let them back in late in the second quarter and then got overwhelmed by a better team. Eade put in a phenomenal performance with flooding and slingshot football to get us into the GF. Way ahead of his time. He has an abrasive nature that wore down the players by the early 2000s. His first 3 years as coach were really good.

[Captain]

Yeah I can't recall Kickett being in great form going into 96. Was a bit of a fringe player at that stage, pretty unfit but could do miraculous things.

[Maltopia]

Fred have said Lobb won’t be traded.

[Aprilbr]

Fred have said Lobb won’t be traded.He is still under contract so they can hold him to it. Hope they do. Same with Hopper at GWS. Difference with the latter case seems to be salary cap issues at GWS. Why is it that these days players think they can just walk away from prior commitments made?

[Markwebbos]

Fred have said Lobb won’t be traded.

That implies Logue is definitely leaving. Still wouldn’t mind seeing him in red and white

[Markwebbos]

Ok now I read Logue is off to North. If they want to bring in players via trade they’ll potentially have to trade the number one pick,

Going to blue a hectic off season

[Aprilbr]

Ok now I read Logue is off to North. If they want to bring in players via trade they’ll potentially have to trade the number one pick,

Going to blue a hectic off seasonI'm sure they won't be trading the first pick for him! They are likely to be receiving a priority pick or two from the AFL as reward for their terrible recruiting in the past and general mismanagement of their Club. Clearly, its all about the money with Logue as why otherwise would he leave a contending Club to go to one that is likely to be a bottom one for several years? We are probably better off without him.

[Markwebbos]

They will also use the threat of the PSD to lowball Freo.

I see Adelaide are trying to screw GCS over the Rankine trade.

I really hope someone calls their bluff after what they did to us last year.

[stevoswan]

Gee, being a 'mastercoach' must hold some sway. Clarkson must have had another coffee with Gil!

AFL announces draft picks assistance package for North Melbourne (https://www.afl.com.au/news/847042/north-granted-extra-draft-picks-list-spots-by-the-afl)

+ extra list spots.

[Aprilbr]

Gee, being a 'mastercoach' must hold some sway. Clarkson must have had another coffee with Gil!

AFL announces draft picks assistance package for North Melbourne (https://www.afl.com.au/news/847042/north-granted-extra-draft-picks-list-spots-by-the-afl)

+ extra list spots.In soccer, when you finish last you get relegated to a lower league and potentially years of oblivion. In the AFL, you receive draft assistance and priority picks! No competition in the world is more sympathetic to mediocrity!

[mcs]

What a load of crap. LolNorf do not deserve priority picks or extra list spots. Stop picking up dud players!

[Ludwig]

Gee, being a 'mastercoach' must hold some sway. Clarkson must have had another coffee with Gil!

AFL announces draft picks assistance package for North Melbourne (https://www.afl.com.au/news/847042/north-granted-extra-draft-picks-list-spots-by-the-afl)

+ extra list spots. It's really not such a big assistance package. It's not anything that's going to bring any star players to the club. I'd give them Melican, Bell or Ronke for their 3td round pick, or all 3 for their 2nd.

[Aprilbr]

It's really not such a big assistance package. It's not anything that's going to bring any star players to the club. I'd give them Melican, Bell or Ronke for their 3td round pick, or all 3 for their 2nd.I'm not sure that they would be interested in any of those guys, Ludwig, but I would not at all be surprised if they make/have made a sizeable offer to Lloyd which may explain why he has deferred re-signing to post-season? Cunningham is another one that may be of interest to them and is out of contract from memory.

[i'm-uninformed2]

It's really not such a big assistance package. It's not anything that's going to bring any star players to the club. I'd give them Melican, Bell or Ronke for their 3td round pick, or all 3 for their 2nd.

The second round pick will already be pegged for Fremantle for Logue, so yes, they’re not getting much more with the third.

[bloodspirit]

The second round pick will already be pegged for Fremantle for Logue, so yes, they’re not getting much more with the third.

A future 2nd for an out-of-contract Logue seems unders.

Lloyd would only net us a compo pick depending on the size of the contract he was offered.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Leaving aside the dispicable Hawks - the AFL has changed the rules and now allows Salary Dumps (https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/other/clubs-allowed-to-salary-dump-in-a-major-change-to-afl-trade-rules/ar-AA120H1w?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=6f30dd6b36904b7685daaab492799b01)
It might be good for North, that's certainly how it's being spun - but it'll also please the Magpies and maybe the the Tigers.
Buddy's mega 9 year contract was the reason the AFL was blocking salary dumps like this - so I can't help wondering whether it's now allowable because he's completed the mega deal and re-signed for another year.
Wouldn't want to inconvenience any Melbourne clubs.

[707]

Leaving aside the dispicable Hawks - the AFL has changed the rules and now allows Salary Dumps (https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/other/clubs-allowed-to-salary-dump-in-a-major-change-to-afl-trade-rules/ar-AA120H1w?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=6f30dd6b36904b7685daaab492799b01)
It might be good for North, that's certainly how it's being spun - but it'll also please the Magpies and maybe the the Tigers.
Buddy's mega 9 year contract was the reason the AFL was blocking salary dumps like this - so I can't help wondering whether it's now allowable because he's completed the mega deal and re-signed for another year.
Wouldn't want to inconvenience any Melbourne clubs.

Don't wonder IT IS because it now suits a big Vic club like Collingwood out of their salary cap problem. Remember Buddy's RFA contract was set in stone for 9 years but after Daniher got a big two year contract that netted big Vic club Essendon pick 7 compo, the AFL has quietly allowed Brisbane to rejig Danihers RFA contract over more years - corrupt.

The AFL is as corrupt and comprimised as you imagine. Everyone should read The Boys Club by Michael Warner

[Markwebbos]

Will the “situation” at North and Brisbane have any impact on trading and drafting I wonder?

I can imagine Clarko is not the drawcard he was 24 hours ago,

Which makes me a bit uncomfortable as he’s denied the allegations and has a right to defend himself

[Mountain Man]

And if there are 2 coaching vacancies, will Essendon get anyone now - except Hird

[gloveski]

Some interesting ideas, but no club would accept 7 and 18 for pick 1 as that is massive unders. 7 and 14 is still too far.

I recall scenarios last year were around 4 and 7 for 1?

North are going to have to split pick 1 to get griffen Logue in . I think 7 and 18 or 14 is pretty close since pick 1 is really going to be Brisbane bound anyway and there is no clear pick 2 atm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Agent 86]

Clubs seem to be putting up negligible resistance to player requests to be traded. Contract or no contract, it hardly seems to matter. Free agency is all but a joke now. Clubs are just accepting that their player gets to his destination and they will get the best deal they can. That's it.

This situation is extremely detrimental to non-Victorian clubs, especially GWS and GC. Lucky that the Swans have cultivated a destination club environment and a good alternative to get out of pressure cooker towns.

I reiterate that the AFL have to do something about this. The inequities are growing too large.

Yes, it’s a concern. Especially since caps seem to be a farce these days. The brown-baggers are back in force and it’ll be the death of expansion clubs.

[Agent 86]

Very true. I think it's notable that there is coverage in the papers today suggesting if Logue leaves, Freo won't let Lobb leave. We'll see if it is posturing or for real, but it suggests they know losing too many talls at once leaves their list unbalanced. I personally think Lobb is overrated and a mercenary who's been amazingly overpaid during his career, but would love to see the Dogs denied a preferred target. So, go Freo.

Freo better off without him. Make them pay overs and get what you can get. Overrated mercenary is spot on!

[Maltopia]

Carey gone from 7 and Triple M for good. AFL 2022: Wayne Carey finished at Channel 7 after white powder scandal (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/wayne-carey-finished-with-broadcaster-after-white-powder-incident/news-story/6df0ff36694ea9b7294fe4048568c243)

[Blood Fever]

Carey gone from 7 and Triple M for good. AFL 2022: Wayne Carey finished at Channel 7 after white powder scandal (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/wayne-carey-finished-with-broadcaster-after-white-powder-incident/news-story/6df0ff36694ea9b7294fe4048568c243)

Another guilty until proven innocent candidate?

[barry]

Another guilty until proven innocent candidate?

Caught red handed!

[Blood Fever]

Caught red handed!

You're 100% certain? Must be an oracle.

[andreww1]

In soccer, when you finish last you get relegated to a lower league and potentially years of oblivion. In the AFL, you receive draft assistance and priority picks! No competition in the world is more sympathetic to mediocrity!

If you look at the EPL and most soccer comps around the world they are dominated by the same 3 or 4 clubs every year. All the other teams are just making up the numbers. So give me the AFL’s equalisation approach over soccer every time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[liz]

Sun’s huge contract revealed as Cats the favourite to secure salary dump trade (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/27/suns-huge-contract-revealed-as-cats-the-favourite-to-secure-salary-dump/)

There's surely got to be something wrong with the AFL's equalisation model if the club that just monstered its way to the premiership can now afford to take a VFL player, large salary and high draft pick from a club that has never qualified for the finals.

[Markwebbos]

Sun’s huge contract revealed as Cats the favourite to secure salary dump trade (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/27/suns-huge-contract-revealed-as-cats-the-favourite-to-secure-salary-dump/)

There's surely got to be something wrong with the AFL's equalisation model if the club that just monstered its way to the premiership can now afford to take a VFL player, large salary and high draft pick from a club that has never qualified for the finals.

Wtf is going on down at Kardinia Park if they’ve got a spare $500k intheir salary cap?

[gloveski]

Wtf is going on down at Kardinia Park if they’ve got a spare $500k intheir salary cap?

Exactly and it never gets mentioned in the media . But the talk of property deals , kick backs from cafes . The latest a poster on Twitter has stated that Cameron receives free cows and Hawkins gets farm equipment. The rumours have been around for years and I have know idea if true or not . But where there is smoke there is usually fire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Aprilbr]

I would add that the media barely seem to question the claims of spare salary cap space at teams like Geelong. Of course those Cats' players are all happily earning hundreds of thousands less than they're true value in a professional sport. No question. The media also believe in the tooth fairy.

[Ludwig]

Sun’s huge contract revealed as Cats the favourite to secure salary dump trade (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/27/suns-huge-contract-revealed-as-cats-the-favourite-to-secure-salary-dump/)

There's surely got to be something wrong with the AFL's equalisation model if the club that just monstered its way to the premiership can now afford to take a VFL player, large salary and high draft pick from a club that has never qualified for the finals.

I was particularly riled by this, not only because it's Geelong, but by the fact that GC had to pay more to keep a player like Jack Bowes, than Geelong has to pay Partrick Dangerfield.

Equalisation is clearly not working.

[707]

Sun’s huge contract revealed as Cats the favourite to secure salary dump trade (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/27/suns-huge-contract-revealed-as-cats-the-favourite-to-secure-salary-dump/)

There's surely got to be something wrong with the AFL's equalisation model if the club that just monstered its way to the premiership can now afford to take a VFL player, large salary and high draft pick from a club that has never qualified for the finals.

Being reported he's owed $1.6 mill over the next two seasons! We know GC has done some stupid things over the journey but how are you writing contracts for that amount for a Cairns academy product?

The footy world knows there's side deals involving property for Geelong players and that's why they attract so many players on lesser cap $ than other clubs.

The problem for the AFL is that this distorts the equalisation measures they hope will even the competition. I just don't get why GC are throwing pick 7 in with Bowes, clubs with lots of cap space would take the player and the salary for a pick less than that gem! It's either media BS or GC are truly idiots.

[Agent 86]

I was particularly riled by this, not only because it's Geelong, but by the fact that GC had to pay more to keep a player like Jack Bowes, than Geelong has to pay Partrick Dangerfield.

Equalisation is clearly not working.

I guess no one needs cows on the Gold Coast?

[stevoswan]

You're 100% certain? Must be an oracle.

So you actually give credence to Carey's 'crushed Paracetamol' deflection?:rofl

[stevoswan]

I would add that the media barely seem to question the claims of spare salary cap space at teams like Geelong. Of course those Cats' players are all happily earning hundreds of thousands less than they're true value in a professional sport. No question. The media also believe in the tooth fairy.

No, they actually write articles praising the Cats for their 'creative' salary cap management. I heard one of the noobs on the show that follows Friday Night footy calling it 'salary cap massaging' and saying they were the best at it and yes, praising them for it.

It's seems like it's Victoria's dirty little 'open' secret and that they're actually quite proud of it.

It really does raise questions regarding the AFL's 'Integrity' unit.

[Roadrunner]

No, they actually write articles praising the Cats for their 'creative' salary cap management. I heard one of the noobs on the show that follows Friday Night footy calling it 'salary cap massaging' and saying they were the best at it and yes, praising them for it.

It's seems like it's Victoria's dirty little 'open' secret and that they're actually quite proud of it.

It really does raise questions regarding the AFL's 'Integrity' unit.

Yes, it’s crazy Stevo. It’s obvious that players receive benefits over and above their contracts- some clubs do it more and perhaps better than others. Surely the Commission is not that stupid or naive to think this doesn’t happen, so this leaves a huge question mark over any so called “Equilization” policy. If Geelong is able to do this, the Suns may as well just give up, as they will never get anywhere.

[Blood Fever]

So you actually give credence to Carey's 'crushed Paracetamol' deflection?:rofl

Understand your idea of justice Stevo

[stevoswan]

Understand your idea of justice Stevo

Yep.....I do understand that the law often precludes logical conclusions.:tongue:

[Blood Fever]

Yep.....I do understand that the law often precludes logical conclusions.:tongue:

Like you, I'm pretty much a one eyed Swans supporter. Justice system needs to be treated differently. Not a sport.

[gloveski]

Being reported he's owed $1.6 mill over the next two seasons! We know GC has done some stupid things over the journey but how are you writing contracts for that amount for a Cairns academy product?

The footy world knows there's side deals involving property for Geelong players and that's why they attract so many players on lesser cap $ than other clubs.

The problem for the AFL is that this distorts the equalisation measures they hope will even the competition. I just don't get why GC are throwing pick 7 in with Bowes, clubs with lots of cap space would take the player and the salary for a pick less than that gem! It's either media BS or GC are truly idiots.

For all the work of the Academies it still looks like you have to pay overs to keep them . Bowes is actually a very handy player but obviously not worth the money he is on . Sydney had to pay overs last contract for Heeney and Mills as North came in with ridiculous offers there new contracts will also be quite hefty .
Sydney need to look into ways outside the cap like Geelong is obviously doing . Can’t help but think that Steve Hocking who at one stage was the general manager of football operations for the AFL knows how to bend the rules .
The last few years we have lost players consistently that are walk up best 22 . We will most likely have another walk out the door this year . We can’t blame this all on Buddy’s contract as other clubs have stars on hefty contracts but are still able to add players to their system . Richmond a prime example you have to ask how the hell are they adding Taranto and Hopper to their list with the contracts of Lynch and Martin .
They obviously have players staying for way under or have other revenue streams ala Geelong . Shai Bolton and Rioli resigning wouldn’t have come cheap .
The only player I know of that is reportedly on unders to market value is Luke Parker . Was reported as a throw away line in an article I read during the year so not sure how much merit that would even hold .



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KTigers]

So you actually give credence to Carey's 'crushed Paracetamol' deflection?:rofl

This is not the first time Carey has lost his gig working for a broadcaster. By his own admission he had a long time
problem with cocaine. It's possible that 1+1 doesn't equal 2 I guess. But part of the reason people get hired by
broadcasters is because of how they present and their reputation and the fact that their reputation will bring
credibility to the broadcaster. So you can see how it goes both ways sometimes.

[KTigers]

I guess no one needs cows on the Gold Coast?

Well, I don't think so. Been up here for a couple days now and I am yet to see a cow. There is a magpie outside
our room though who will not go away. Not sure if that means anything. Maybe he just needs to be fed.
Like Jordan De Goey.

[Maltopia]

Joel Selwood retirement press conference announced.

[Jimitron5000]

Joel Selwood retirement press conference announced.

They will now have an extra $100k in their salary cap. That's what Geelong pays their captain isn't it?

[dejavoodoo44]

They will now have an extra $100k in their salary cap. That's what Geelong pays their captain isn't it?

That and magic beans. Some cows. Perhaps a house or two.

[Maltopia]

They will now have an extra $100k in their salary cap. That's what Geelong pays their captain isn't it?

Quote today from Chris Scott:

"There won't be much cap space without Joel … he could have had us over a barrel and we would have paid him anything [to keep him] but he never did."

[Mel_C]

Quote today from Chris Scott:

"There won't be much cap space without Joel … he could have had us over a barrel and we would have paid him anything [to keep him] but he never did."
Gee I wonder why he never had them over a barrel 🤔

[KTigers]

Joel is taking up a new position at the Selwood Institute which is located on one of Tom Hawkins seven farms outside
Geelong. He'll be joining his brothers in training young up-and-coming footballers in how to increase their Free Kick
counts.

[dejavoodoo44]

Joel is taking up a new position at the Selwood Institute which is located on one of Tom Hawkins seven farms outside
Geelong. He'll be joining his brothers in training young up-and-coming footballers in how to increase their Free Kick
counts.

And slowly degenerate into a silly old ducker.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Essendon is apparently going to announce Brad Scott in the next 24 hours as coach.

He only applied for the job on Tuesday, and did one presentation, and I suuspect there's been bugger all due diligence done.

Now, I think he did a good job at a struggling club with a just ok list. But to race to such a monumental decision is exactly why Essendon are such a crap club in the first place.

[dejavoodoo44]

Essendon is apparently going to announce Brad Scott in the next 24 hours as coach.

He only applied for the job on Tuesday, and did one presentation, and I suuspect there's been bugger all due diligence done.

Now, I think he did a good job at a struggling club with a just ok list. But to race to such a monumental decision is exactly why Essendon are such a crap club in the first place.
Maybe they think that they're getting Chris?

[707]

Essendon is apparently going to announce Brad Scott in the next 24 hours as coach.

He only applied for the job on Tuesday, and did one presentation, and I suuspect there's been bugger all due diligence done.

Now, I think he did a good job at a struggling club with a just ok list. But to race to such a monumental decision is exactly why Essendon are such a crap club in the first place.

Everything about Essendon is crap, except the facilites at the Hangar. Given their turmoil of the last decade, it makes you thankful you follow the Swans, boringly steady as she goes!

- - - Updated - - -


Gee I wonder why he never had them over a barrel 🤔

Too busy managing property developments and counting his cash!

- - - Updated - - -


Quote today from Chris Scott:

"There won't be much cap space without Joel … he could have had us over a barrel and we would have paid him anything [to keep him] but he never did."

But we'll magically create cap space to bring in a heap of players from other clubs

[707]

So 11th hour blow in Brad Scott gets the Essendon gig!

Sent by the AFL to keep James Hird out of the job?

[Ludwig]

If Geelong was a small city in NSW and had a COLA, they could very well be in line for losing something for some of the shenanigans they've been up to. But that's in an alternative universe, so Geelong will continue along in a world without a salary cap. The AFL allow some clubs to have multi-year fantasy trips. Others are prohibited.

[Markwebbos]

I reckon the AFL will try and prevent Bowes and pick 7 getting to the Cats. It’s a bad look in a premiership year.

[Aprilbr]

I reckon the AFL will try and prevent Bowes and pick 7 getting to the Cats. It’s a bad look in a premiership year.I think a Trade Ban might be in order. [emoji3][emoji3][emoji3]

[i'm-uninformed2]

Sheedy continues to crap over his own club, and reveal it to be a dysfunctional mess

No Cookies | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/essendon-great-kevin-sheedy-reveals-he-voted-for-james-hird-in-coach-search/news-story/7e57f6ed8a379239e52eec637b856601)

[Jimitron5000]

Sheedy continues to crap over his own club, and reveal it to be a dysfunctional mess

No Cookies | Herald Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/essendon-great-kevin-sheedy-reveals-he-voted-for-james-hird-in-coach-search/news-story/7e57f6ed8a379239e52eec637b856601)

For a while now I have suggested to bomber mates that it is time to put Sheedy out to pasture. They aren't interested in that idea at all. Their lords and saviours are Sheedy and Hird.

[Blood Fever]

For a while now I have suggested to bomber mates that it is time to put Sheedy out to pasture. They aren't interested in that idea at all. Their lords and saviours are Sheedy and Hird.

Weird club that won't move on from its past

[KTigers]

Weird club that won't move on from its past

I think the past is all the Bombers have right now. I wonder how long Brad Scott will last. But I guess he'll get his
payout then sit around for another couple years till the next desperate club rings him. The blokes gotta eat I
suppose. I geuss you can't blame him.

[gloveski]

I reckon the AFL will try and prevent Bowes and pick 7 getting to the Cats. It’s a bad look in a premiership year.

Endless dollars down at the cattery the list of potential incoming players is astonishing

Henry
Brahn
Bowes
mckenna

3 former first round picks and one of the best half backs from a few years ago .
Imagine if Sydney were trying to pull this off , we would be banned for ten years


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[i'm-uninformed2]

Endless dollars down at the cattery the list of potential incoming players is astonishing

Henry
Brahn
Bowes
mckenna

3 former first round picks and one of the best half backs from a few years ago .
Imagine if Sydney were trying to pull this off , we would be banned for ten years


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ridiculous. Anyway, if I am Collingwood, sadly in need of forward craft, I'd dig in and say no to trading Henry. He's gonna be a star.

[mcs]

The Geelong sombrero now bigger than ever. They'll come out and tell us next week that Selwood was on $2 million a year hahaha

Sent from my CPH2009 using Tapatalk

[Ludwig]

The Geelong sombrero now bigger than ever.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBJH5t3CIAMZOc-.jpg

[707]

Ridiculous. Anyway, if I am Collingwood, sadly in need of forward craft, I'd dig in and say no to trading Henry. He's gonna be a star.

Pies have offered Henry a low contract extension, probably because of the cap squeeze. Geelong boy then eyes the wealth on offer at the Cattery and sticks his hand up for some of that. Pies have precipitated the requested move.

[liz]

Pies have offered Henry a low contract extension, probably because of the cap squeeze. Geelong boy then eyes the wealth on offer at the Cattery and sticks his hand up for some of that. Pies have precipitated the requested move.

He's also looking at Ash Johnson, who took was preferred in the team in the back-end of the season, plus the Pies (slightly strange, IMO) decision to target McStay during the free agency period, and realises he'll have to fight for a spot in the Pies team.

Whether he gets many opportunities at Geelong is another matter. It may, in part, depend on how long Gary Rohan keeps going. But while Rohan's possession/goal contribution to the Cats team is inconsistent, he does at least chase and apply pressure. Stuff I've read from Pies fans suggests that Henry (and Ash Johnson) aren't too keen on the pressure stuff.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Essendon is apparently going to announce Brad Scott in the next 24 hours as coach.

He only applied for the job on Tuesday, and did one presentation, and I suuspect there's been bugger all due diligence done.

Now, I think he did a good job at a struggling club with a just ok list. But to race to such a monumental decision is exactly why Essendon are such a crap club in the first place.
Essendon has a long history of taking short cuts, the drugs scandal was only the most recent, they have also been caught and penalised more times than any other club for salary cap breaches.
The intellectual property that Brad brings from his previous job at the AFL should not to be completely discounted as a factor in his appointment to the Essendon job.
What a rubbish club.

[barry]

I hear GWS 's tanner bruan is going to Geelong. He was selected with the best pick they got when Jeremy Cameron went to Geelong.
Extreme!

[i'm-uninformed2]

And Horne-Francis has requested to go home. Norf should say a flat no, but they won’t exist as a club in 10 years.

[Aprilbr]

And Horne-Francis has requested to go home. Norf should say a flat no, but they won’t exist as a club in 10 years.Personally, I think North should trade him out as long as they receive something decent in return. A predicted early pick this year and next is probably enough. This player has shown he is not interested in staying from Day One. There have also been question marks over his training standards and professionalism. Better to get rid of him for something decent in return. A bad egg for North.

[Foreign Legion]

Just breaking on AFL trade radio - McKay 7 year deal at Carlton.

It is good that Carlton have so many players on $200 a week and a slab of beer. Their Salary cap is endless.

[KTigers]

Just breaking on AFL trade radio - McKay 7 year deal at Carlton.

It is good that Carlton have so many players on $200 a week and a slab of beer. Their Salary cap is endless.

The clincher for Harry was knowing that the Blues will never make the finals and he'll be able to fit in an extra month as
an Uber driver to help make ends meet.

[Kafka's Ghost]

The clincher for Harry was knowing that the Blues will never make the finals and he'll be able to fit in an extra month as
an Uber driver to help make ends meet.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

[707]

Norf should move JHF for Port's pick 8 and next years first. He's never been settled, shown bad body language and arguing with team mates on the field. Could turn quite toxic if they knock back a trade.

Enough muck happening at Norf with no coach, best just wipe the slate clean, take two first rounders and run.

[i'm-uninformed2]

There’s a bit of this that Norf has brought in itself by being crap.

But if I’m Norf, I want more than 8 plus maybe 12 next year (I expect Port to improve next year). There’s a quantum leap between a pick 1 and player around 10.

The kid is seriously elite. In his draft year, he was BOG in SANFL finals, and that’s the best non AFL league in the country. He’s got special talents both on ball and up forward.

Port will be setting up their midfield for a decade with him, Rozee and Butters, plus some of their other young talent. Norf should demand they pony up accordingly and go find at least one more top five pick to go with something else around 8-10.

[barry]

He has a bit of Jack Watts smell about him. If north get 2 1st rounders for him. Take them. Two very good players is better than one very,very good player, and hedges your bets a bit.

[Ludwig]

Norf should move JHF for Port's pick 8 and next years first. He's never been settled, shown bad body language and arguing with team mates on the field. Could turn quite toxic if they knock back a trade.

Enough muck happening at Norf with no coach, best just wipe the slate clean, take two first rounders and run.I agree. Given where North are, 2 first rounders are better than 1 cranky star, who will looking to leave at every opportunity. It's a far deal and a good deal for North.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I thought I’d turn on trade radio on the drive home from golf for a laugh, and it was even better than expected.

Stephen Silvagni, who’s apparently a list, trade and draft expert, was talking about big trades past and couldn’t remember Tim Kelly’s name. “ Err, that guy, he was a midfielder, who was at, um, West Coast, no Geelong, and went West . . . Umm, his name was . . . He was a midfielder.”

Then they brought Matt Randell on, who suggested Mitch Georgiades to West Coast could be part of Port getting the picks they need for Horne-Francis. When Damien Barrett asked how, Randell then said: “I don’t know, I haven’t really studied West Coast’s draft hand.”

I swear, if you’re ever feeling down, tune in and you’ll instantly feel better about yourself.

[Captain]

I feel sorry for North. JHF seems to have a poor attitude and a sook that he went to a bottom club. Hope they hold him to his contract or absolutely rinse Port.

[barry]

SEN has a lot of hours to fill.

- - - Updated - - -


I feel sorry for North. JHF seems to have a poor attitude and a sook that he went to a bottom club. Hope they hold him to his contract or absolutely rinse Port.

Nah, I hope norf fold.

[KTigers]

Nah, I hope norf fold.

Yep, a few douchebags from N.Melbourne caught the bus up here and booed Adam during his last game.
That's enough for most of us to want to fold them.

[The Big Cat]

Nobody wants to go to north. I think it was Titus O'Reilly who said that even their much vaunted war chest had asked for a trade.

[707]

I thought I’d turn on trade radio on the drive home from golf for a laugh, and it was even better than expected.

Stephen Silvagni, who’s apparently a list, trade and draft expert, was talking about big trades past and couldn’t remember Tim Kelly’s name. “ Err, that guy, he was a midfielder, who was at, um, West Coast, no Geelong, and went West . . . Umm, his name was . . . He was a midfielder.”

Then they brought Matt Randell on, who suggested Mitch Georgiades to West Coast could be part of Port getting the picks they need for Horne-Francis. When Damien Barrett asked how, Randell then said: “I don’t know, I haven’t really studied West Coast’s draft hand.”

I swear, if you’re ever feeling down, tune in and you’ll instantly feel better about yourself.

Some of the trades they suggest are laughable for former list managers.

The rest of the former players on that show are bordering on idiots, show a complete lack of understanding about trade rules, points system, FA etc

The adverts are good though LOL

[goswannies]

I feel sorry for North. JHF seems to have a poor attitude and a sook that he went to a bottom club. Hope they hold him to his contract or absolutely rinse Port.
The one thing with the draft - and this is unavoidable - is that for a couple of years you don’t get to choose your workplace. I guess that this happens in the armed forces (you can get posted to places you don’t want to be) some other vocations. But he didn’t choose to go to North and likely wouldn’t have. I would hate to be told where I had to work. But then again, if I was in his money, I’d probably work anywhere … even North!

That said, he did choose to nominate for the draft, knowing full well that he could end up anywhere. That’s part of his job.

It makes a mockery of free agency that after one year in the system a player can turn around and demand to go to a club of his choice.

[707]

Nobody wants to go to north. I think it was Titus O'Reilly who said that even their much vaunted war chest had asked for a trade.

Classic Titus.

You get the feeling that as the smallest fish in the biggest pond, in this modern era Norf will never become relevant again, had one big signing in a decade and he may well be found to have been a naughty boy!

The way player movement has evolved, the big clubs will dominate, it's not cyclic, I think in recent seasons we've passed a point where the equalisation mechanisms are now failing the league.

That a GWS academy player wants to leave to 'play for a big Melbourne club', that the best pick GWS received for Jeremy Cameron was used on Bruhn who after two years wants to go home to Geelong for less than the pick GWS used to draft him, that after one season the number one pick wants to go home, that Suns are giving away a pick 10 player and pick 7 for a future second a year after doing similar with former number 9 pick Will Brodie, that Richmond can give a bag of picks to extract two very good mids from GWS thereby fast tracking a refresh and avoiding potential draft failures, that clubs like Carlton, Richmond and Geelong don't seem to have a salary cap as they fit in any number of big contract players, that go home has become a valid excuse to leave a club and that you then say who at home you want to be traded to .....

It's become a mess, the big Melbourne clubs are here to dominate, the small Vic clubs like Norf and Saints are doomed, I fear for GWS and Suns longer term if they continue to be bottom half clubs, they're getting little traction

[Foreign Legion]

Classic Titus.

You get the feeling that as the smallest fish in the biggest pond, in this modern era Norf will never become relevant again, had one big signing in a decade and he may well be found to have been a naughty boy!

The way player movement has evolved, the big clubs will dominate, it's not cyclic, I think in recent seasons we've passed a point where the equalisation mechanisms are now failing the league.

That a GWS academy player wants to leave to 'play for a big Melbourne club', that the best pick GWS received for Jeremy Cameron was used on Bruhn who after two years wants to go home to Geelong for less than the pick GWS used to draft him, that after one season the number one pick wants to go home, that Suns are giving away a pick 10 player and pick 7 for a future second a year after doing similar with former number 9 pick Will Brodie, that Richmond can give a bag of picks to extract two very good mids from GWS thereby fast tracking a refresh and avoiding potential draft failures, that clubs like Carlton, Richmond and Geelong don't seem to have a salary cap as they fit in any number of big contract players, that go home has become a valid excuse to leave a club and that you then say who at home you want to be traded to .....

It's become a mess, the big Melbourne clubs are here to dominate, the small Vic clubs like Norf and Saints are doomed, I fear for GWS and Suns longer term if they continue to be bottom half clubs, they're getting little traction

Great comments 707 -- free agency works for top 4 clubs but works against bottom 8 clubs.

North are in very deep crap IMHO. I think the chances of Clarkson and Fagan coaching again (no matter what happens) is about 40% and 60%. Clarkson less because he was the no.1 man.

No player is going to want to go to North at the moment. So any trades with them will need to be picks. Port will have to pay up big time for JHF - right so. Although if I was North I'd be secretly be glad to be rid of him.

[KTigers]

Agree, 707. The whole thing is a joke. That the premiers can end up with Cameron AND Bruhn (after GWS have done all the early work
and got him off training wheels) just says it all. In a couple years Richmond (or Geelong) will no doubt end up with the players GWS
will get with the picks they'll receive for Taranto and Hopper. GWS and GC have to pay a couple hundred extra K a year for players that
seemingly (and strangely) the big Vic clubs pay under market rates for. This stuff really takes the gloss out of footy sometimes I tell you.
Meanwhile half the footy world is getting all worked up cos poor old Clarko has been "blindsided" and mightn't receive the entitled white
man concept of "natural justice".

[Kafka's Ghost]

I thought I’d turn on trade radio on the drive home from golf for a laugh, and it was even better than expected.

Stephen Silvagni, who’s apparently a list, trade and draft expert, was talking about big trades past and couldn’t remember Tim Kelly’s name. “ Err, that guy, he was a midfielder, who was at, um, West Coast, no Geelong, and went West . . . Umm, his name was . . . He was a midfielder.”

Then they brought Matt Randell on, who suggested Mitch Georgiades to West Coast could be part of Port getting the picks they need for Horne-Francis. When Damien Barrett asked how, Randell then said: “I don’t know, I haven’t really studied West Coast’s draft hand.”

I swear, if you’re ever feeling down, tune in and you’ll instantly feel better about yourself.

Stephen Silvagni would be one of the most inarticulate people to ever sit behind a microphone. I remember his comments during the 2005 Finals’ Series as completely cringeworthy. Astonishing that anyone lets him anywhere near a mic.


Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

[barry]

Stephen Silvagni would be one of the most inarticulate people to ever sit behind a microphone. I remember his comments during the 2005 Finals’ Series as completely cringeworthy. Astonishing that anyone lets him anywhere near a mic.


Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

His one claim to fame was lost manager for GWS from inception to the list that made the 2019 GF.

- - - Updated - - -

^list manager

[barry]

Yep, a few douchebags from N.Melbourne caught the bus up here and booed Adam during his last game.
That's enough for most of us to want to fold them.

Three things are turned against Norf in the past month:
1. Losing Clarkson. No way he can coach again.
2. Tassie team is faultering. With a bit of analysis, the economics are not there.
3. 1st round draft pick wants to leave.

So, unviable in Melbourne. Door agar in Tassie. Need access to players (Tassie academy?)

[stevoswan]

Classic Titus.

You get the feeling that as the smallest fish in the biggest pond, in this modern era Norf will never become relevant again, had one big signing in a decade and he may well be found to have been a naughty boy!

The way player movement has evolved, the big clubs will dominate, it's not cyclic, I think in recent seasons we've passed a point where the equalisation mechanisms are now failing the league.

That a GWS academy player wants to leave to 'play for a big Melbourne club', that the best pick GWS received for Jeremy Cameron was used on Bruhn who after two years wants to go home to Geelong for less than the pick GWS used to draft him, that after one season the number one pick wants to go home, that Suns are giving away a pick 10 player and pick 7 for a future second a year after doing similar with former number 9 pick Will Brodie, that Richmond can give a bag of picks to extract two very good mids from GWS thereby fast tracking a refresh and avoiding potential draft failures, that clubs like Carlton, Richmond and Geelong don't seem to have a salary cap as they fit in any number of big contract players, that go home has become a valid excuse to leave a club and that you then say who at home you want to be traded to .....

It's become a mess, the big Melbourne clubs are here to dominate, the small Vic clubs like Norf and Saints are doomed, I fear for GWS and Suns longer term if they continue to be bottom half clubs, they're getting little traction


Agree, 707. The whole thing is a joke. That the premiers can end up with Cameron AND Bruhn (after GWS have done all the early work
and got him off training wheels) just says it all. In a couple years Richmond (or Geelong) will no doubt end up with the players GWS
will get with the picks they'll receive for Taranto and Hopper. GWS and GC have to pay a couple hundred extra K a year for players that
seemingly (and strangely) the big Vic clubs pay under market rates for. This stuff really takes the gloss out of footy sometimes I tell you.
Meanwhile half the footy world is getting all worked up cos poor old Clarko has been "blindsided" and mightn't receive the entitled white
man concept of "natural justice".

These two posts should be sent to the AFL and the AFLPA. Make them aware of what some fans are thinking and hopefully make them have a hard look at themselves and their supposedly 'equalised league' and what a sick Victorian 'rich club' joke it has become.

[Ludwig]

I would like to hear from the medical profession why it is that out of all the professional sports in the world, only Australian football players suffer from homesickness.

[stellation]

I would like to hear from the medical profession why it is that out of all the professional sports in the world, only Australian football players suffer from homesickness.

I'm not sure it's particularly unique to footy players, but I suspect part of it is to do with the draft and relative salaries compared to other sports that use a draft. Not just the "making heaps more, don't want to go home" idea, but more the financial flexibility to pay for a close friend/family member to relocate near you for some sense of home.

It may also partly be familiarity with a draft or expected move away from home compared to other sports- the AFL being the only sporting league in Australia with a draft, US major league sports seem to all employ a draft or some kind of living away from home as a college athlete.

Definitely something the AFL needs to look at and work out some kind of way to address it.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I would like to hear from the medical profession why it is that out of all the professional sports in the world, only Australian football players suffer from homesickness.

The one I laughed at is Ollie Henry, who’s (checks google maps) one hour away from home.

[Markwebbos]

I would like to hear from the medical profession why it is that out of all the professional sports in the world, only Australian football players suffer from homesickness.

They might also want to investigate the damaging impact of this disease on players sense of direction.

Given the impact a large amount of $$$ can have on where they think home is.

[i'm-uninformed2]

And apparently, just two days after being appointed, Essendon’s new CEO has resigned.

What a trash club

[KTigers]

And apparently, just two days after being appointed, Essendon’s new CEO has resigned.

What a trash club

As my Bombers supporting mate just texted me, "they don't have Google at the club and so they couldn't find out beforehand that their
new CEO was nuts".

[Industrial Fan]

Add this to Sheedys recent outburst they’re in a world of pain.

Makes me more optimistic about a player like Francis coming to the swans and having an impact.

[stevoswan]

Add this to Sheedys recent outburst they’re in a world of pain.

Makes me more optimistic about a player like Francis coming to the swans and having an impact.

Yep....surely he is leaving with a massive sense of relief.:tongue:

[i'm-uninformed2]

As my Bombers supporting mate just texted me, "they don't have Google at the club and so they couldn't find out beforehand that their
new CEO was nuts".

Got a great mate who’s an Essendon supporter and part of their LGBQT support group, the Purple Bombers. Tells me the club was flooded with complaints today and apparently their womens team were horrified too by his comments equating abortion to the Holocaust.

[mcs]

And apparently, just two days after being appointed, Essendon’s new CEO has resigned.

What a trash club

And a fan base with a significant proportion of trash stamped on it too (of course I'm sure there are plenty of good Bombers fans mixed in too). The amount of people out there on social media this afternoon insinuating 'it is all a media witch hunt with a vendetta against the club' is quite amusing.

May they rot in hell as a club for a long time yet.

No matter what happened on Grand Final day, I'm glad we support a club that is run well, and in most cases (there are always exceptions) does the right thing by its players and its fans.

[Nico]

Got a great mate who’s an Essendon supporter and part of their LGBQT support group, the Purple Bombers. Tells me the club was flooded with complaints today and apparently their womens team were horrified too by his comments equating abortion to the Holocaust.

He was on SEN this morning saying how good he was as a CEO and loved motivating people, and how he loved leading 5000 people at NAB. He resigned as CEO of NAB after the Royal Commission due to dubious practices in the financial planning arm. I know some one who was close to the action there at the time, and he said top management was a rabble. "Anything it takes" ring a bell. NAB has since sold it's financial planning arm.

[Mel_C]

As my Bombers supporting mate just texted me, "they don't have Google at the club and so they couldn't find out beforehand that their
new CEO was nuts".
Essendon is the gift that keeps on giving. You couldn't make this up.

Surely as part of the recruitment process the club did a background check? Upon seeing he was a chair of that church, you would think that alarm bells would go off.

And if they didn't do a background check, then it shows what an incompetent club they really are.

[Mel_C]

Agree, 707. The whole thing is a joke. That the premiers can end up with Cameron AND Bruhn (after GWS have done all the early work
and got him off training wheels) just says it all.

What was the quote that Gill said about us when we were handed the trade ban? "We can't have everyone"?
Geelong can win the premiership and they can have everyone 🤔.

[Kafka's Ghost]

He was on SEN this morning saying how good he was as a CEO and loved motivating people, and how he loved leading 5000 people at NAB. He resigned as CEO of NAB after the Royal Commission due to dubious practices in the financial planning arm. I know some one who was close to the action there at the time, and he said top management was a rabble. "Anything it takes" ring a bell. NAB has since sold it's financial planning arm.

Correct. As well as the religious stuff, I’d have thought his corporate history alone was enough to disqualify him from the CEO position at Essendon.


Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

[Bloods05]

As my Bombers supporting mate just texted me, "they don't have Google at the club and so they couldn't find out beforehand that their
new CEO was nuts".
What the hell did they ask him in the interview?

[KTigers]

What the hell did they ask him in the interview?

Interview? what interview?

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I’d have thought his corporate history alone was enough to disqualify him from the CEO position at Essendon.
Did you mean disqualify or qualify?

[liz]

Did you mean disqualify or qualify?

LOL.

[Aprilbr]

Classic Titus.

You get the feeling that as the smallest fish in the biggest pond, in this modern era Norf will never become relevant again, had one big signing in a decade and he may well be found to have been a naughty boy!

The way player movement has evolved, the big clubs will dominate, it's not cyclic, I think in recent seasons we've passed a point where the equalisation mechanisms are now failing the league.

That a GWS academy player wants to leave to 'play for a big Melbourne club', that the best pick GWS received for Jeremy Cameron was used on Bruhn who after two years wants to go home to Geelong for less than the pick GWS used to draft him, that after one season the number one pick wants to go home, that Suns are giving away a pick 10 player and pick 7 for a future second a year after doing similar with former number 9 pick Will Brodie, that Richmond can give a bag of picks to extract two very good mids from GWS thereby fast tracking a refresh and avoiding potential draft failures, that clubs like Carlton, Richmond and Geelong don't seem to have a salary cap as they fit in any number of big contract players, that go home has become a valid excuse to leave a club and that you then say who at home you want to be traded to .....

It's become a mess, the big Melbourne clubs are here to dominate, the small Vic clubs like Norf and Saints are doomed, I fear for GWS and Suns longer term if they continue to be bottom half clubs, they're getting little tractionThis is an excellent post and raises many of the concerns about the current draft/salary cap/trade situation that I also have had for some time.

Many respected people in the industry argued at the time of the introduction of free agency, that it would heavily favour a few big clubs over the rest and that is exactly what has transpired. In demand players have much more power than ever before and they are increasingly using it! The AFL is scared of legal challenges based on restraint of trade so they will not abolish it now.

However, our system can be improved to somewhat restore equalisation. I see the three major problems being:
1. An imbalance of players coming from just one State, 60% from Victoria on average.
2. Developing clubs being at a competitive disadvantage in non-AFL States.
3. Salary caps undermined by deals outside of the Cap.

1. This is the hardest to overcome and requires continued investment in, and support for, Academies, junior development and retention allowances.
2. Similar solutions to 1. Brisbane and the Swans seem fairly settled now so its GWS and the Suns that need the most help in terms of player retention. We needed that help in the 90s and got it.
3. Much more stringent enforcement of the Cap by significantly investing in surveillance of clubs and player payments. Forensic accountants could use their magic to uncover rorts and side deals. There appears to be systematic rorting of the Cap going on by some Clubs . It needs to be identified and punished. The AFL knows what each player is paid under the official Cap. Those players who clearly are being under-paid relative to their market worth are where the investigators should start. Look at bank records, tax returns, property titles etc. Players will need to agree in their contracts that they are subject to these investigations just like a bank makes you sign a waiver for it to investigate you before lending money to you. Close relatives, girlfriends etc also need to be investigated although that's a little harder legally. I would also toughen up the rules on marketing deals, especially where club sponsors are involved. A lot of rorting going on there too!

[Ludwig]

This is an excellent post and raises many of the concerns about the current draft/salary cap/trade situation that I also have had for some time.

Many respected people in the industry argued at the time of the introduction of free agency, that it would heavily favour a few big clubs over the rest and that is exactly what has transpired. In demand players have much more power than ever before and they are increasingly using it! The AFL is scared of legal challenges based on restraint of trade so they will not abolish it now.

However, our system can be improved to somewhat restore equalisation. I see the three major problems being:
1. An imbalance of players coming from just one State, 60% from Victoria on average.
2. Developing clubs being at a competitive disadvantage in non-AFL States.
3. Salary caps undermined by deals outside of the Cap.

1. This is the hardest to overcome and requires continued investment in, and support for, Academies, junior development and retention allowances.
2. Similar solutions to 1. Brisbane and the Swans seem fairly settled now so its GWS and the Suns that need the most help in terms of player retention. We needed that help in the 90s and got it.
3. Much more stringent enforcement of the Cap by significantly investing in surveillance of clubs and player payments. Forensic accountants could use their magic to uncover rorts and side deals. There appears to be systematic rorting of the Cap going on by some Clubs . It needs to be identified and punished. The AFL knows what each player is paid under the official Cap. Those players who clearly are being under-paid relative to their market worth are where the investigators should start. Look at bank records, tax returns, property titles etc. Players will need to agree in their contracts that they are subject to these investigations just like a bank makes you sign a waiver for it to investigate you before lending money to you. Close relatives, girlfriends etc also need to be investigated although that's a little harder legally. I would also toughen up the rules on marketing deals, especially where club sponsors are involved. A lot of rorting going on there too!All good points with realistic solutions.

Enforcement, especially for point 3, can be very difficult to monitor. What may be necessary are very harsh penalties for violations, which encompass players, managers,and club executives, even possibly to include lifetime bans. So even if the chance of getting caught is low, the penalties may not be worth the risk.

Something I would add is for a player to request a trade when not a free agent, he would have to prove a hardship condition, reviewable by a board of examiners. Just claiming homesickness, or wanting to go home, should not be sufficient to leave the club that you were drafted to. The most disadvantaged clubs, GWS and GC, shouldn't have to pay extraordinary salaries to retain players. It only comes apart in the end. The current situation is undermining the AFL's status as a national competition.

[707]

And apparently, just two days after being appointed, Essendon’s new CEO has resigned.

What a trash club

Everyone on here should thank their God that we are such a professional club. Imagine being an Essendon supporter, such a shambles of a club.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

All good points with realistic solutions.

Enforcement, especially for point 3, can be very difficult to monitor. What may be necessary are very harsh penalties for violations, which encompass players, managers,and club executives, even possibly to include lifetime bans. So even if the chance of getting caught is low, the penalties may not be worth the risk.

Something I would add is for a player to request a trade when not a free agent, he would have to prove a hardship condition, reviewable by a board of examiners. Just claiming homesickness, or wanting to go home, should not be sufficient to leave the club that you were drafted to. The most disadvantaged clubs, GWS and GC, shouldn't have to pay extraordinary salaries to retain players. It only comes apart in the end. The current situation is undermining the AFL's status as a national competition.

It's passing strange how long it's been since any club got seriously pinged for rorting the salary cap. Clubs lost draft picks for serious salary cap breaches quite regularly up until 2002 (Essendon and Carlton repeatedly). But since then only a single case has been detected, and Dirty Kurts double contract was simply too public and farcical to ignore.
So either clubs have mended their ways (ROFL) and we're all mistaken, or the Demetriou/Gilligan leadership is as disinterested in looking into rorting as they were in looking into tanking, drugging or racism.
Is it their pathological obsession with good PR, or old fashioned "Boys Club" corruption or both?

[liz]

Is it their pathological obsession with good PR, or old fashioned "Boys Club" corruption or both?

I finally got around on Saturday to buying a copy of Warner's "The Boys' Club" and I'm now about two thirds of the way through it. It's quite disturbing reading, even though none of it is unexpected and much of it familar. But putting it all together in one book, and linking the incidents via consistent patterns of behaviour, makes it oh so stark. I think it's evident that the AFL will not take action against a club or individual unless their hand is forced by the incident sneaking out of their control of the "news". And only then if they don't have a rug large enough to sweep it under.

[liz]

Something I would add is for a player to request a trade when not a free agent, he would have to prove a hardship condition, reviewable by a board of examiners. Just claiming homesickness, or wanting to go home, should not be sufficient to leave the club that you were drafted to. The most disadvantaged clubs, GWS and GC, shouldn't have to pay extraordinary salaries to retain players. It only comes apart in the end. The current situation is undermining the AFL's status as a national competition.

I don't think this is workable or fair to players. Many of them have good reasons for moving to another club, especially those who aren't getting a game where they are. I don't think there's anything wrong, for example, with Paddy Dow seeking a new club (and indeed, Carlton seem to be pushing him to do so), and maybe not Jack Graham (with his club trying to bring in two midfielders to compete with him for a spot).

My solution, which I've posted in more detail before, is to introduce a salary cap tax on contracts of players moving clubs before they qualify for free agency, specifically a tax on the amount over and above a benchmark that takes into account age and/or years in the system and/or games played. The aim would be to create a system whereby a player is likely to be paid better by the club they were drafted to than by any other club during the period before free agency. It doesn't entirely stop Fremantle throwing a huge contract at Jackson, or Adelaide at Rankine, or the Bulldogs at Tom Boyd, but it will make it more expensive (cap wise) and thus might make them stop and think.

This should reduce the stupidly large contracts thrown at some players before they've shown they are worthy of it and, most importantly, will reduce the pressure on clubs like the Suns and Giants to overpay their young players.

I am not under the illusion that either the current AFL administration or the AFLPA would be interested in a mechanism like this.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I finally got around on Saturday to buying a copy of Warner's "The Boys' Club" and I'm now about two thirds of the way through it. It's quite disturbing reading, even though none of it is unexpected and much of it familar. But putting it all together in one book, and linking the incidents via consistent patterns of behaviour, makes it oh so stark. I think it's evident that the AFL will not take action against a club or individual unless their hand is forced by the incident sneaking out of their control of the "news". And only then if they don't have a rug large enough to sweep it under.
Yep, as a contrast you might read Ross Oakley's book.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I’m still laughing at Collingwood paying $600k a year for five years for Dan McStay. He’s basically a slightly taller Will Hayward, with less defensive pressure and similar stats.

I mean, we like Wil, but there’s no way in the world we’d pay him that.

[707]

I’m still laughing at Collingwood paying $600k a year for five years for Dan McStay. He’s basically a slightly taller Will Hayward, with less defensive pressure and similar stats.

I mean, we like Wil, but there’s no way in the world we’d pay him that.

Paying $600k a season to have Treloar play at the Dogs and Grundy to play at the Dees!

I must say some of the moves at the Pies are difficult to understand but they did make a Prelim?

[Foreign Legion]

Isnt it great that the AFL are letting Grundy take a pay cut 2 years into a 7 year contract so he can get to Melbourne.

Funnily enough I don't think we could have done that with Buddy even if he retired his money would still be on our books while the contract was 'active'

As Orwell said, 'All animals are equal, some are MORE equal than others'.

[Kafka's Ghost]

Regarding the recently-resigned CEO of the Essendon FC, this article explains most cogently why he should never have been considered at any level. I hadn’t realised he’d appointed himself after being the man to find a new incumbent!

https://www.afr.com/rear-window/god-saved-essendon-from-andrew-thorburn-20221004-p5bn6n

Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

[i'm-uninformed2]

Isnt it great that the AFL are letting Grundy take a pay cut 2 years into a 7 year contract so he can get to Melbourne.

Funnily enough I don't think we could have done that with Buddy even if he retired his money would still be on our books while the contract was 'active'

As Orwell said, 'All animals are equal, some are MORE equal than others'.

It’s crap. With Bud, we were obliged to honour and pay out the deal no matter what, board members were personally liable, COLA was cut, trade ban in applied. It is so transparently, blatantly full of double standards.

[KTigers]

Part of the "go home" culture in the AFL stems from the fact that there is very little travel involved in being an AFL player,
especially if you are at a Melbourne club. Even if you play for the Swans and play all the away games you may spend 20
nights max in a hotel. If you play for a MLB team you'll spend about three months total in a hotel. 60% of players come
through the ranks and they've barely ever left Victoria. So when they do go interstate for two years initially after being
drafted it is a really big deal and change for them. Their focus is in Victoria, most of their player mates get to play in Victoria.
It's been like this since the draft came in.
If you are coming up thru the pro sports ranks in the US or Europe you know from day one there is very little chance
you will end up at team anywhere near where your parents and mates are. It barely enters the equation.
Also, the entire vibe around the AFL is that it's a Melbourne game, and it sort of is. The league administration is based
there, most of the teams are there, the media is there, all the Grand Finals are played there etc etc. It is one way traffic
all the way. No one in New York or Los Angeles thinks their city is the home of baseball or gridiron or basketball. No one
in Barcelona or Munich thinks their city is the home of soccer.

[KTigers]

Paying $600k a season to have Treloar play at the Dogs and Grundy to play at the Dees!
I must say some of the moves at the Pies are difficult to understand but they did make a Prelim?

Illustrating once again that football clubs are not real businesses. Imagine owning a business and paying a big
chunk of the salary of an ex-employee now working for a competitor. It's just brilliant.

[Foreign Legion]

It’s crap. With Bud, we were obliged to honour and pay out the deal no matter what, board members were personally liable, COLA was cut, trade ban in applied. It is so transparently, blatantly full of double standards.

We can blame the thankfully departed Rhodes Scholar for that. People in high positions like that should be above hatred/bias etc but he never got over it.

Yes, I forgot the trade ban and a player we drafted missing 12 weeks due to off field suspension. Total vindictiveness. But anything to help The Pies and Dees.

[Blood Fever]

Part of the "go home" culture in the AFL stems from the fact that there is very little travel involved in being an AFL player,
especially if you are at a Melbourne club. Even if you play for the Swans and play all the away games you may spend 20
nights max in a hotel. If you play for a MLB team you'll spend about three months total in a hotel. 60% of players come
through the ranks and they've barely ever left Victoria. So when they do go interstate for two years initially after being
drafted it is a really big deal and change for them. Their focus is in Victoria, most of their player mates get to play in Victoria.
It's been like this since the draft came in.
If you are coming up thru the pro sports ranks in the US or Europe you know from day one there is very little chance
you will end up at team anywhere near where your parents and mates are. It barely enters the equation.
Also, the entire vibe around the AFL is that it's a Melbourne game, and it sort of is. The league administration is based
there, most of the teams are there, the media is there, all the Grand Finals are played there etc etc. It is one way traffic
all the way. No one in New York or Los Angeles thinks their city is the home of baseball or gridiron or basketball. No one
in Barcelona or Munich thinks their city is the home of soccer.

Great post. The VAFL.

[707]

It’s crap. With Bud, we were obliged to honour and pay out the deal no matter what, board members were personally liable, COLA was cut, trade ban in applied. It is so transparently, blatantly full of double standards.

Double standards, that's what the corrupt AFL excels at!

I'm loving this Hawthorn crisis because just for once the AFL can't sweep it under a rug and the way it's played out is that one side or the other is lying and the AFL can't come out of this looking good, loving it haha

[707]

Having another look at the picks they hold, still can't see how Freo and Brisbane can get their deals done fully.

[Bloods05]

We can blame the thankfully departed Rhodes Scholar for that. People in high positions like that should be above hatred/bias etc but he never got over it.

Yes, I forgot the trade ban and a player we drafted missing 12 weeks due to off field suspension. Total vindictiveness. But anything to help The Pies and Dees.

It's not just that people in high positions should be above that kind of behaviour. There should also be institutional restraints that stop them doing this kind of harm if they prove incapable of restraining themselves. In the AFL's case, no such restraints were in place. They gave free rein to Fitzpatrick's hatred, bias, and vindictiveness. It was, and remains, a disgrace.

[troyjones2525]

So Geelong dominates us to win a flag and now adds more young talent plus collecting pick 7 in the upcoming draft... seems fair... gotta admire their recruitment team.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

[Jimitron5000]

So Geelong dominates us to win a flag and now adds more young talent plus collecting pick 7 in the upcoming draft... seems fair... gotta admire their recruitment team.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

In a similar way vacancies become available at retirement villages, there is a natural attrition of Geelong's list given its age profile.
That said, you do have to admire the way they go about it. They seem to be able to find players who play for the love of the game and are not interested in the least in being financially rewarded for their efforts.

[BRS328]

It’s crap. With Bud, we were obliged to honour and pay out the deal no matter what, board members were personally liable, COLA was cut, trade ban in applied. It is so transparently, blatantly full of double standards.

It gets worse. Geelong has just had Bowes from the Gold Coast do a tour of their facilities in a bid to entice him to the Cats, that just happens to also include pick 7 in the national draft provided they take the next 2 years of his contract of $1.7 million.
Geelong have now asked the other AFL if they can renegotiate the Bowes contract and spread it out over a longer period. Bowes in his own right was pick 10 in the national draft, so while it was clearly a back ended deal, and if allowed is as blatant as it gets in terms of double standards.

[stevoswan]

In a similar way vacancies become available at retirement villages, there is a natural attrition of Geelong's list given its age profile.
That said, you do have to admire the way they go about it. They seem to be able to find players who play for the love of the game and are not interested in the least in being financially rewarded for their efforts.

:rofl:

You were joking weren't you?

[liz]

It gets worse. Geelong has just had Bowes from the Gold Coast do a tour of their facilities in a bid to entice him to the Cats, that just happens to also include pick 7 in the national draft provided they take the next 2 years of his contract of $1.7 million.
Geelong have now asked the other AFL if they can renegotiate the Bowes contract and spread it out over a longer period. Bowes in his own right was pick 10 in the national draft, so while it was clearly a back ended deal, and if allowed is as blatant as it gets in terms of double standards.

Comparing the Franklin and Bowes situations is apples and oranges. If a competition is going to have a RFA system, you have to prevent clubs outbidding a player's existing club and then renegotiating downwards. As far as I am aware, the obligation on a club to honour the free agency contract applies to all players. It was certainly imposed on Hawthorn when Ty Vickery retired with a year still to go on his contract.

The "Buddy Rule" was actually more draconian than just holding the club to bearing the full whack of his salary in the cap, and I think was (unfairly) unique to this contract. The AFL also stipulated that the Swans couldn't move the money around between years, but rather had to stick with the year-by-year schedule of payments that they set out when the contract was struck. So if they'd found themselves with unexpected space in the cap in, say, year five or six of the contract, they weren't permitted to bring payments to Franklin forward to reduce the risk they'd still be paying him large amounts in years eight and nine when he'd retired.

It's all a moot point now since he has seen out his contract and beyond. But it was another instance of making up rules on the run, possibly vindictively.

The current situation with Bowes is the result of a few elements of competition mismanagement colliding. One is that the salary cap clearly isn't working as it should to equalise access to talent across the competition. That's already been discussed.

The second is that the AFL arguably mismanaged the rescue package that they gave the Suns a few years ago. The Suns are currently in a situation where they have to reduce their list size, and have received so many high draft picks over the years that they are like confetti to them. Most clubs would value a pick 7 really highly and wouldn't toss it in the garbage can. But it has little value to the Suns, particularly as they are likely to get another pick around that spot when Rankine departs to Adelaide. If this were merely a salary cap dump (concerning enough on its own for a club that has never made finals), they'd be offering Bowes (and contract) for a 4th round pick.

The third element is that the AFL has become increasingly blase about clubs buying and selling cap space. With a draft/cap system that is already clearly not achieving its goal of equalisation, this further undermines equalisation.

[Blood Fever]

It's not just that people in high positions should be above that kind of behaviour. There should also be institutional restraints that stop them doing this kind of harm if they prove incapable of restraining themselves. In the AFL's case, no such restraints were in place. They gave free rein to Fitzpatrick's hatred, bias, and vindictiveness. It was, and remains, a disgrace.

+1

[i'm-uninformed2]

Comparing the Franklin and Bowes situations is apples and oranges. If a competition is going to have a RFA system, you have to prevent clubs outbidding a player's existing club and then renegotiating downwards. As far as I am aware, the obligation on a club to honour the free agency contract applies to all players. It was certainly imposed on Hawthorn when Ty Vickery retired with a year still to go on his contract.

I get the distinction between Bud and Bowes.

But I don’t think - and appreciate you weren’t delving into that - there is any difference between Buddy’s deal and the one Grundy signed. It was effectively a FA contract, as it was signed the year before he was due and clearly designed to keep him from going home to South Australia, with Port in particular into him.

The idea he can now take a pay cut, which effectively makes it easier for the Pies to get him off the books and the share of his residual contract they have to pay, is farcical.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

We can blame the thankfully departed Rhodes Scholar for that. People in high positions like that should be above hatred/bias etc but he never got over it.

Yes, I forgot the trade ban and a player we drafted missing 12 weeks due to off field suspension. Total vindictiveness. But anything to help The Pies and Dees.

I'd suggest the Buddy penalties imposed were pretty much exactly the sort of behaviour you'd expect from a rampant narcissist whose wishes are being thwarted, not saying Fitzpatrick is by the way. Just hypothesising based my experience with narcissists in a work setting.

Regarding the Tippett 12 week ban FL, you need to remember/understand that our own misbehaviour (we had Greg Williams sign 2 contracts) set the benchmark for the penalty.
It was poetic justice being pinged for that.

[707]

So Geelong dominates us to win a flag and now adds more young talent plus collecting pick 7 in the upcoming draft... seems fair... gotta admire their recruitment team.

Bowes probably already signed up for a nice property development with his $850k x2!

This is absolutely wrong, you win the flag comprehensively then you get a former pick 10 player and a pick 7 because you can somehow absorb his huge contract in your salary cap. Gold Coast had to dump players with picks two years running, what a **** up

Geelong get Bowes, a top 7 pick, former first rounders Henry and Bruhn and suggested they are in the running for DFA Conor McKenna!

The AFL equalisation policies are horrendously broken and Vics want to whinge about Northern academies, grrrr

[KTigers]

Not footy but today Aaron Judge of the New York Yankees set a new record for home runs (62) in a single season in the
American League. There are three National League players who have hit more than 62 homers in a season but all did it in
the steroid era and all have substantial asterisks next to their name. So many regard Judge's achievement as the true
all time record.

[KTigers]

But back onto Essendon.... my Bombers fan mate just texted me to say that Brad Scott is Dyson Heppell's seventh coach.
Plus he's also seen five presidents and four CEO's. What a total shambles the Bombers are.

[i'm-uninformed2]

But back onto Essendon.... my Bombers fan mate just texted me to say that Brad Scott is Dyson Heppell's seventh coach.
Plus he's also seen five presidents and four CEO's. What a total shambles the Bombers are.

Imagine walking into Essendon as a player 10 years ago. You had all that - and the drugs saga to top it off. What chance do you have?

Whatever our strengths or weaknesses as a club, you thank you’re lucky stars we’re well run with a stable board, admin and coaching team. Since the days of Richard Colless, it’s been the same.

I’ve mentioned on here before I got lucky to know him a little back when he was President through some work. I wouldn’t have spoken to him for five years but I felt compelled to swap a couple of texts with him pre-GF just to say thanks.

[Ludwig]

Not footy but today Aaron Judge of the New York Yankees set a new record for home runs (62) in a single season in the
American League. There are three National League players who have hit more than 62 homers in a season but all did it in
the steroid era and all have substantial asterisks next to their name. So many regard Judge's achievement as the true
all time record.
Are you suggesting (and I think it would be a good suggestion) that Geelong should have an asterisk after their premiership victories for playing with a salary cap on steroids?

[KTigers]

Are you suggesting (and I think it would be a good suggestion) that Geelong should have an asterisk after their premiership victories for playing with a salary cap on steroids?

Everything about Geelong has an asterisk attached to it. Tomahawk's seven farms, the Selwood Brothers Free Kick Institute,
Zac Touhy's moustache, the fact that Robbo and Danger went fishing together, Chris Scott, all the Ablett's except for Luke,
all the strange looking tall blonde people they have in the team, their weird-shaped ground. And all of it hiding under the
Salary Sombrero. There is nothing right about that footy club. And then there is the actual town itself. Yikes.

[Markwebbos]

I’m hoping we might be able to prise pick 7 from Geelong’s arthritic fingers if they need to split it to get Bruhn and Henry through the door.

14 and 17 for 7 seems about right

[troyjones2525]

Bowes probably already signed up for a nice property development with his $850k x2!

This is absolutely wrong, you win the flag comprehensively then you get a former pick 10 player and a pick 7 because you can somehow absorb his huge contract in your salary cap. Gold Coast had to dump players with picks two years running, what a **** up

Geelong get Bowes, a top 7 pick, former first rounders Henry and Bruhn and suggested they are in the running for DFA Conor McKenna!

The AFL equalisation policies are horrendously broken and Vics want to whinge about Northern academies, grrrr+1

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

[troyjones2525]

I’m hoping we might be able to prise pick 7 from Geelong’s arthritic fingers if they need to split it to get Bruhn and Henry through the door.

14 and 17 for 7 seems about rightDepends on if there is someone up that end of the draft we really want. Not too sure who it would be???

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

[Roadrunner]

Are you suggesting (and I think it would be a good suggestion) that Geelong should have an asterisk after their premiership victories for playing with a salary cap on steroids?

Well, the AFL really need to do something because what goes on at some of these big clubs is beyond a joke now.
Either they are serious about equilization and a fair salary cap for all clubs and bring in independent auditors, or else the bottom 4-6 clubs will struggle just like in the EPL. We need a strong leadership at the helm if we really want to give every club a fair go. It’s impossible they don’t know what’s going on- a kid in primary school can add up the figures!

[barry]

What is obvious is that GWS, who have held out for a long time, are now a feeder club like Gold Coast is. They dont have enough cap space to hold on to players and they have to pay overs to keep players.
They, like GC, wont be competitive until they get a permanent cap extension. There is nothing strange about that. They simply need to pay more in direct salary than other established teams, to keep players.

[i'm-uninformed2]

What is obvious is that GWS, who have held out for a long time, are now a feeder club like Gold Coast is. They dont have enough cap space to hold on to players and they have to pay overs to keep players.
They, like GC, wont be competitive until they get a permanent cap extension. There is nothing strange about that. They simply need to pay more in direct salary than other established teams, to keep players.

My understanding of some of the Swans’ reticence to Tasmania stems from what is happening with GWS, and the view it is now in the most difficult position it has been in since its formation.

Its real membership numbers are sinking (don’t get sucked in by the headline numbers which include thousands of giveaways), crowds are slumping, its salary cap is busted, its financial position is seriously weak, its prospects for on field improvement are dim given its cap constraints and poor capacity for development since the COVID cuts to footy department spend, and AFL participation rates in western Sydney have flatlined.

It is now likely to require a bigger financial handout than anticipated for longer than anticipated and is perceived as in a weaker position than even the Gold Coast and considerably worse than Norf.

[Blood Fever]

What is obvious is that GWS, who have held out for a long time, are now a feeder club like Gold Coast is. They dont have enough cap space to hold on to players and they have to pay overs to keep players.
They, like GC, wont be competitive until they get a permanent cap extension. There is nothing strange about that. They simply need to pay more in direct salary than other established teams, to keep players.

Basket case on a par with North. Millions wasted by AFL.

[Aprilbr]

My understanding of some of the Swans’ reticence to Tasmania stems from what is happening with GWS, and the view it is now in the most difficult position it has been in since its formation.

Its real membership numbers are sinking (don’t get sucked in by the headline numbers which include thousands of giveaways), crowds are slumping, its salary cap is busted, its financial position is seriously weak, its prospects for on field improvement are dim given its cap constraints and poor capacity for development since the COVID cuts to footy department spend, and AFL participation rates in western Sydney have flatlined.

It is now likely to require a bigger financial handout than anticipated for longer than anticipated and is perceived as in a weaker position than even the Gold Coast and considerably worse than Norf.Yes, GWS have gone south quickly after their run of reasonable success. Developing clubs clearly need a retention allowance and the AFL needs to get serious about enforcement of the Cap. Its undermining the equalisation policy and the integrity of the system. Get those forensic accountants in there! There will be a paper trail to follow as they don't do brown bags of cash under the counter anymore.

[Thunder Shaker]

How trading and the draft should work:

Brisbane will be recruiting Ashcroft (likely #1 pick) and Fletcher (late first round) in the draft, and are building up points. As a result, they lack the first-round picks to fulfil the Bulldogs' demand to recruit Dunkley as well.

How trading and the draft should NOT work:

Geelong wins the premiership and is able to recruit multiple players via trades, including Bowes who comes with pick 7 as well. Geelong wants to renegotiate Bowes' contract and keep pick 7.

If the AFL had any sense and consistency, they should force Geelong to honour the terms of Bowes' contract.

[liz]

The whole thing has become farcical. Until last year the AFL wouldn't sign off on lopsided trades. Then they let the Brodie trade go through to help out Gold Coast's bulging salary cap, rather than address the underlying issues of why Gold Coast's (and GSW's) salary cap is a mess.

When Gold Coast came to them for approval for the proposed Bowes trade, they possibly reasoned that it wouldn't distort equalisation that much because the only clubs who could afford to absorb Bowes's contract into their cap would be struggling teams in Victoria who already found it hard to pay the 95% salary cap floor (which contributes to players like Tarryn Thomas reportedly being on $700k year). If one of those teams also landed up with pick 7, it would kick start their rebuild. Kinda like sharing the generous assistance package they gave Gold Coast with another struggling club.

But for this pick to go to a club that cannot even afford to absorb Bowes's contract...

It's also worth noting that Bowes's contract is only so high because he's agreed to have his payments backended. So some of it is money he's really owed for years of service already given to Gold Coast. For Geelong to want him to put in more years of service to earn that money seems stiff on him, though I guess it's partly his decision to agree to this.

Who is actually running the AFL football operations department at the moment, given that Brad Scott has accepted a different role? Is there anyone there with the initiative and authority to realise how stupid this situation is, go to the powers that be (probably the Commission) to award a temporary additional salary cap allowance of, say, $500k, to both Gold Coast and GWS so they don't have to trade out Bowes (and pick 7) or Hopper (to a club with insufficient trade currency) this trade period. And to buy time for a fresh management team to look at how equalisation isn't working and come up with a more permanent solution over the next nine months.

That said, Gold Coast (in particular) haven't helped their own cause with some dubious looking recruitment choices of their own. Rory Atkins for four years on a contract no other club would have given him for two? And now Ben Long and Sam Berry, who look like list cloggers at best. They may not be on large contracts but Long has been prised out of a club where he was already getting reasonably regular games so I doubt they are paying him a pittance. Would they not be better off keeping Bowes and taking pick 7 to the draft?

[707]

I’m hoping we might be able to prise pick 7 from Geelong’s arthritic fingers if they need to split it to get Bruhn and Henry through the door.

14 and 17 for 7 seems about right

Geelong probably want it for Jhye Clark, a Geelong Falcon touted around that mark.

As I said in an earlier post, equalisation is badly broken, so many elements are failing to do what they are supposed to, the AFL is asleep at the wheel or they actually want the big Vic clubs to occupy the eight as it gives them more revenue, their almighty God!.

GC & GWS will never be able to stem the flow south of their talent, the weakest of the Vic clubs Norf and St.Kilda may never rise above mid table again.

The supposed cyclic nature of ladder positions is no more. Too much inequity and lack of meaningful measures to limit the big Melbourne clubs preying on non Victorian and small Victorian clubs.

What Geelong may be able to do this off season could set them up for another period of dominance, as Liz said, it's farcical.

[liz]

Geelong probably want it for Jhye Clark, a Geelong Falcon touted around that mark.



They also seem committed to bringing Oliver Henry and Tanner Bruhn to their club. They need draft pick capital to do that.

They don't actually need to draft Clark now. They can let another club draft him, invest two years into his development, and then lure him "home" in two years with a late first round pick and the promise of free coffee for life and a property portfolio.

[Ludwig]

I wonder what the open market price would be for Pick 7. Why couldn't GC auction off the pick? Then they could use that to pay off Bowes' salary, in part. I don't see why GC have to lose both Bowes and Pick 7.

Agree with Liz that no one is minding the shop at AFL House.

The AFL should force North to move to Tasmania. There are too many clubs in Melbourne. Why create another club that needs AFL financial support? 19 clubs is a crazy number.

[KTigers]

It's not just the high salaries that GCS and GWS have pay to pay, but also the length of the deals. People go on about Buddy
and the 9 year deal, but Josh Kelly with 8 years and Coniglio with 7 years. Then there was Haynes' long deal, and Whitfield's
and even Toby got extended. They are all good players obviously, but are they great players? Not really. Have any of them
ever had a Top 3 Brownlow finish? I might be wrong, but I don't think so. I just think a level of comfort can set in when some
players are on big salaries and on really long contracts. Some of them are just not as hungry anymore. And it can be reflected
in their on-field performance. But I do understand why GWS felt they had to do it. And now there are casualties. There were
casualties at the Swans when Buddy and Tippo came in. Just not as many as at GWS. The really worrying thing for the Giants
if you ask me are their crowd numbers out at Homebush. This year they were terrible. It's bewildering that a city of 5.5M people
can't really support two teams properly but Sydney doesn't seem to be able to at the moment.

[barry]

The Bowes deal only makes sense if Bowes is basically useless.
Even though he was a top 10 pick, even Geelong dont think he's worth the $700k / p.a. for two years, or $500 p.a. over 4 years, so GC have to throw in a pick 7 for them to take him.
So he must be almost borderline delist material. Geelong are basically buying pick 7 for $1.4m, and Bowes is the steak-knives.

But it is crooked that they get to restructure his deal. If you take the extreme, why dont they restructure it for $100k for 14 years: almost nothing as far as cap pressure... Just to get pick 7

[barry]

Basket case on a par with North. Millions wasted by AFL.

Only difference is there is zero upside to North. They arent going to grow market share in Melbourne. They couldnt during the Carey years when they won flags.
If GWS get a couple of flags, at least they are a chance of growing market share.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

The Bowes deal only makes sense if Bowes is basically useless.
Even though he was a top 10 pick, even Geelong dont think he's worth the $700k / p.a. for two years, or $500 p.a. over 4 years, so GC have to throw in a pick 7 for them to take him.
So he must be almost borderline delist material. Geelong are basically buying pick 7 for $1.4m, and Bowes is the steak-knives.

But it is crooked that they get to restructure his deal. If you take the extreme, why dont they restructure it for $100k for 14 years: almost nothing as far as cap pressure... Just to get pick 7

Wow, an extremely interesting perspective Barry. You definitely had your thinking cap on today.

[Blood Fever]

Only difference is there is zero upside to North. They arent going to grow market share in Melbourne. They couldnt during the Carey years when they won flags.
If GWS get a couple of flags, at least they are a chance of growing market share.

Fair call re North but not sure a flag would cement Giants support. Going to be a continual struggle.

[Thunder Shaker]

North Melbourne has always struggled for market share. Even in the 1890s it struggled because it competed with Essendon and Footscray for territory. The club would do better if it relocated, perhaps to Bendigo where it could compete as the North Victoria Kangaroos.

Relocating the Kangaroos to Tasmania would be a non-starter. Tasmania wants its own club, not a transplanted one.

As for Gold Coast, that city is a graveyard for sports teams. If the Gold Coast Suns don't work out, they could be relocated to the Northern Territory or north Queensland. Playing a couple of games a year in Cairns or Alice Springs will help them grow those markets.

[liz]

“A few clubs” left disgruntled over Cats' lowball offers for trade targets (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/10/06/a-few-clubs-left-disgruntled-over-cats-lowball-offers-for-trade-targets/)

Obviously can't vouch for how accurate Matt Rendall is, but he's suggesting that Geelong are unwilling to part with their own first round picks for either this year or next in their attempts to get Henry and Bruhn to the club, but are asking for a first round pick for Ratugolea to move to Port. Ratugolea is contracted but not getting a game at the Cats.

[i'm-uninformed2]

“A few clubs” left disgruntled over Cats' lowball offers for trade targets (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/10/06/a-few-clubs-left-disgruntled-over-cats-lowball-offers-for-trade-targets/)

Obviously can't vouch for how accurate Matt Rendall is, but he's suggesting that Geelong are unwilling to part with their own first round picks for either this year or next in their attempts to get Henry and Bruhn to the club, but are asking for a first round pick for Ratugolea to move to Port. Ratugolea is contracted but not getting a game at the Cats.

The new Dodoro, if it’s true he wants more for Esava than he’s willing to pay for Bruhn or Henry

[Markwebbos]

I don’t understand why GCS needed to throw in pick 7 with Bowes? Their next pick is 25 why not offer that? Or do a deal with another club (we’d have done it I’m sure) to swap 7 for a lower first this year and something next.

Is Bowes really that bad? Or just being stupidly overpaid.

I agree with whoever said for salary dumps the receiving club should not be allowed to restructure the deal … although I presume Bowes has chosen the club that’s offers him the best future.

Surely the AFL will close this loophole after this?

[707]

“A few clubs” left disgruntled over Cats' lowball offers for trade targets (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/10/06/a-few-clubs-left-disgruntled-over-cats-lowball-offers-for-trade-targets/)

Obviously can't vouch for how accurate Matt Rendall is, but he's suggesting that Geelong are unwilling to part with their own first round picks for either this year or next in their attempts to get Henry and Bruhn to the club, but are asking for a first round pick for Ratugolea to move to Port. Ratugolea is contracted but not getting a game at the Cats.

I always thought Geelong were quick and fair traders but I see they have a new list manager. Henry and Bruhn are absolutely worth pick 18/19's. Geelong has no PSD threat either, both would end up at Norf and Essendon

All this from the Cats and Freo and Brisbane pulling the low ball trade offers as well.

[Blood Fever]

The new Dodoro, if it’s true he wants more for Esava than he’s willing to pay for Bruhn or Henry

Was arrogant as a player. Doesn't surprise me.

[Markwebbos]

I always thought Geelong were quick and fair traders but I see they have a new list manager. Henry and Bruhn are absolutely worth pick 18/19's. Geelong has no PSD threat either, both would end up at Norf and Essendon

All this from the Cats and Freo and Brisbane pulling the low ball trade offers as well.

Lowballing is very trade period 2022

[KSAS]

With our direct competitors Geelong, Richmond, Brisbane & Port seemingly building stronger lists with the quality of trades they're likely to get done, puts greater pressure on our young list taking that next step next season in order to finish top 4 again. Won't be any easier that's for sure!

[barry]

Tanner Bruhn was a top 10 pick, and is probably tracking career wise as a pick 10. He's coming into his prime. Anything less than pick 15 is robbery.

[707]

Tanner Bruhn was a top 10 pick, and is probably tracking career wise as a pick 10. He's coming into his prime. Anything less than pick 15 is robbery.

Think Bruhn was pick 12, the best pick GWS got in the Jeremy Cameron trade. How's that for equalisation at work!

If I'm GWS, if Geelong's offer is just a 30's pick I'd be making a statement and send him to the PSD, he can't put a silly price on his head because the Cats have no cap space so he won't last past nine other Vic clubs.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Think Bruhn was pick 12, the best pick GWS got in the Jeremy Cameron trade. How's that for equalisation at work!

If I'm GWS, if Geelong's offer is just a 30's pick I'd be making a statement and send him to the PSD, he can't put a silly price on his head because the Cats have no cap space so he won't last past nine other Vic clubs.

Agreed. He's going to be an excellent player so Geelong should pay up.

GWS are already a feeder club, and they'll be reduced to junk status if they are continually forced to give away players. I get they need to clean up their list and salary cap, but there's a difference between that and being taken to the cleaners.

[barry]

Tanner Bruhn is not part of GWS's cap problem, and I'm sure they'd like to keep him. The Giants have a lot of picks, they dont actually need another pick in the 20's. I agree, let him walk to pre-season.

[aardvark]

They should just pack up GWS and send them to Tassie. Kill two birds.....

[Foreign Legion]

Allegedly Geelong and GWS have agreed on a deal for Bruhn - no details yet.

I hope us and the other 16 clubs are happy the team that won the flag easily can recruit pretty much who they want. And in the case with Gold Coast get pick 7. This is seriously becoming worse every year.

GWS get stripped every year. They draft blokes and develop them then they leave.

[KTigers]

.... and of course we have the Melbourne footy media fan boys cheering Geelong on talking about how great it is that they "win" every trade.