Rnd 10 - Pre Match Thread - vs North Melbourne at Marvel Stadium, Saturday 20 May, 1:454 PM

[Maltopia]

Harley Reid Cup!

Longmire in the post 9 game interview has said both Mills and McDonald are highly unlikely to play (but we will know more as it gets closer to final team selection).

Sheather had 73% time on ground for 5 possessions. I know he needs more games/experience and we got smashed at the centre bounce, but it was still very low output and impact. Gould was not great, but we don't have other options other than Melican so I suppose he stays.

Hoping Ladhams is well enough to play.

Outs: Mills, McDonald
Ins: Sheldrick, Ladhams
Sub: Stephens

[liz]

Sheather played as a small defender in the VFL last year. They could think about moving him back and starting Campbell further up the ground.

If Ladhams isn't right and McDonald is out, I think McAndrew might have to play. That will at least free up McLean from second ruck duties. Neither he nor Hickey is likely to provide much of a threat resting up forward but we're running out of options.

Personally I'd bring in Stephens before Sheldrick (and maybe experiment with him at a few centre bounces) but I have no idea if the coaches will see it that way. I suspect they share doubts on Sheldrick's stamina at the moment to play a full game in the midfield. He could come in as a small forward (mostly) if Sheather is moved back and Campbell up.

[707]

So now onto Norf in the early game next Saturday.

Last year Norf had been dreadful, everyone had been getting big percentage boosts against them. But they came up to the SCG and gave us an awful scare, from memory we were lucky to get out of it.

This year Norf have been dreadful providing a percentage boost to their opponents and it's us heading down to Marvel with a looong injury list. Fingers crossed Norf continue to be a rabble, maybe Buddy can find some form under the roof against them, four goals would be nice.

[Captain]

Stephens must come in. Sheldrick and Ladhams (if fit too). Melican is a sneaky chance.

In: Stephens, Sheldrick, Ladhams
Out: McDonald, Mills, Clarke

Melican for Francis too if he is ready.

[MattW]

Stephens must come in. Sheldrick and Ladhams (if fit too). Melican is a sneaky chance.

In: Stephens, Sheldrick, Ladhams
Out: McDonald, Mills, Clarke

Melican for Francis too if he is ready.

Agreed with the ins and outs, with McAndrew to come in if Ladhams isn't fit.

I agree with liz's suggestion re Sheather moving back. Perhaps Stephens could play forward; he's a good kick for goal on run and set shot.

I thought Francis went alright yesterday; he's got some promise playing the Paddy McCartin intercept role. 10 intercept possessions, 8 marks (two contested). He should stay in.

[lwjoyner]

should have played mcandrew this week with hickey who was/is short of match play and freos ruck combination.

[Jimitron5000]

Assuming Ladhams is still injured, I'd like to see McAndrew get a game. He impressed me in the twos when I watched them a few weeks back and Hickey could do with some help. Stephens should come in too.

Sheldrick need to play sooner rather than later, and Gould should play out the season. We won't know if either of them will make it if they are playing reserves week in, week out.

[chalbilto]

Assuming Ladhams is still injured, I'd like to see McAndrew get a game. He impressed me in the twos when I watched them a few weeks back and Hickey could do with some help. Stephens should come in too.

Sheldrick need to play sooner rather than later, and Gould should play out the season. We won't know if either of them will make it if they are playing reserves week in, week out.

Agree with your post, but a bit harsh on Sheldrick.

[Foreign Legion]

My thoughts are that Sheldrick and Melican need to be given a go. Particularly Melican as he is a Key Defender and we need that.

Also, he has been at the club a long time - he either makes it or leaves. I think P.McCartin won't play again so we need to try someone.

McAndrew a chance merely to see if he lifts his game - if he could mark he would be in the side now.

[waswan]

Logan 8 weeks
Mills 4-6 weeks
When it rains it pours

[MattW]

FFS.

Mills out for 6 weeks, Logan for 8. Seriously.

Battered and bruised Swans add another two to injury list - Callum Mills Logan McDonald added to Sydney Swans injury list (https://www.afl.com.au/news/927379)

[MattW]

Can Will Gould play forward? Francis seems a better defender than forward, as an interceptor and given his dodgy set shot.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Anyone on here fit enough to fill a hole in the back pocket? It’s truly that dire.

[Thunder Shaker]

So now onto Norf in the early game next Saturday.

Last year Norf had been dreadful, everyone had been getting big percentage boosts against them. But they came up to the SCG and gave us an awful scare, from memory we were lucky to get out of it.

This year Norf have been dreadful providing a percentage boost to their opponents and it's us heading down to Marvel with a looong injury list. Fingers crossed Norf continue to be a rabble, maybe Buddy can find some form under the roof against them, four goals would be nice.
Given last year's SCG game against North, I consider this a danger game. Our injuries could be telling.

[Meg]

Anyone on here fit enough to fill a hole in the back pocket? It’s truly that dire.

Jarrad McVeigh still looks pretty fit ....

[dejavoodoo44]

Can Will Gould play forward? Francis seems a better defender than forward, as an interceptor and given his dodgy set shot.

Don't recall Gould playing as a forward. He's kicked the occasional goal, but I think most of them have been roosts from between 40-60 out. If Ladhams is fit, then perhaps he comes in; then him and Hickey can share the tall forward and ruck roles. If not, McAndrew makes his debut in the ruck and Hickey spends much of the game playing as a forward.

[liz]

Don't recall Gould playing as a forward. He's kicked the occasional goal, but I think most of them have been roosts from between 40-60 out. If Ladhams is fit, then perhaps he comes in; then him and Hickey can share the tall forward and ruck roles. If not, McAndrew makes his debut in the ruck and Hickey spends much of the game playing as a forward.

Melican might be ready to come back in. Francis could then go forward. I agree with whoever said Francis looks like a better defender than forward, but we may not be in a position to be picky.

[chalbilto]

I think that Francis should play in defence. Maybe the Swans should play a small forward line with Buddy and McLean up front bringing the ball to ground.

[MattW]

Melican might be ready to come back in. Francis could then go forward. I agree with whoever said Francis looks like a better defender than forward, but we may not be in a position to be picky.

It will be interesting to see whether Tom McCartin is back. Otherwise, I'd rather Melican come in for Gould and Francis stay back. I think that makes us much more solid than Melican and Gould back there with Fox, and I'd rather us focus on growing Francis in that interceping role.

Re forward, agree with deja above - time for two rucks, McLean as a forward with Buddy.

We need to find a way to get more out of Hayward. Maybe time for a look at Hall-Kahan - either as sub or for Sheather.

[MattW]

Don't recall Gould playing as a forward. He's kicked the occasional goal, but I think most of them have been roosts from between 40-60 out. If Ladhams is fit, then perhaps he comes in; then him and Hickey can share the tall forward and ruck roles. If not, McAndrew makes his debut in the ruck and Hickey spends much of the game playing as a forward.

Agree with you re the approach to the forward-line.

The question was semi-rhetorical/facetious, but Gould is not looking at all good as a defender, so I wonder whether there's a remote chance he could be re-tooled as a forward. There are plenty of examples of players originally tried as forwards moving back - Barry, Grundy, Richards, McCartin, but fewer the other way.

[The Big Cat]

If Tom McM and Ladhams are fit then they would come in plus Gus and Dyl for Mills, Logan, Sheather and Gould. Even if Tom and Pete are not fit, the outs should be the same. Maybe McAndrew comes in with Cory Warner.

The Gould question has been settled once and for all. He’s like so many footballers, he’s found his level one grade down.

[i'm-uninformed2]

One thing we will have to watch for the year is not cooking the players we have left, or it risks carrying over into 2024. As much as the limited list allows, we will need to occasionally rotate and manage players, via rest or time on ground.

[707]

Opposition ruck this week? The still highly effective Goldstein will generate plenty of drive for Norf.

Given Norf's form the past two months I can't believe this could even remotely be a danger game but ..........

Yikes!!

[RogueSwan]

Opposition ruck this week? The still highly effective Goldstein will generate plenty of drive for Norf.

Given Norf's form the past two months I can't believe this could even remotely be a danger game but ..........

Yikes!!

... they did jump a couple of seasons ago.

[Roadrunner]

If Tom McM and Ladhams are fit then they would come in plus Gus and Dyl for Mills, Logan, Sheather and Gould. Even if Tom and Pete are not fit, the outs should be the same. Maybe McAndrew comes in with Cory Warner.

The Gould question has been settled once and for all. He’s like so many footballers, he’s found his level one grade down.

Not yet totally convinced re Gould. In fairness, he needs a run of games to assess. This season is gone so we may as well play him, Francis and the Pelican down back. If Ladhams is fit, play him up forward and bring in McAndrew to ruck. Buddy sub, I’m afraid, but it won’t happen!

[Jimitron5000]

Gould is now 3 games into his career, and he has been brought into a defensive unit decimated by injuries. It's not the easiest start to his career. Give him a run of games - we won't know if he is an AFL standard footballer if we don't play him.

[JulieHC]

Gould is now 3 games into his career, and he has been brought into a defensive unit decimated by injuries. It's not the easiest start to his career. Give him a run of games - we won't know if he is an AFL standard footballer if we don't play him.

Yes agree, can’t think of a better time to just play him and see how he goes, then we will know one way or another if he stays on our list

[waswan]

Gould is now 3 games into his career, and he has been brought into a defensive unit decimated by injuries. It's not the easiest start to his career. Give him a run of games - we won't know if he is an AFL standard footballer if we don't play him.

3 games and 4yrs.... That covid year we had a similar injury list to this year and he still couldnt get a game

Clearly there is an issue if he isnt getting games and he isnt getting taken by others

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Jimitron is right. FFS play kids, I know it's mathematically possible to make the finals - but give it a rest.
I was one of he first to herald the rise of the new kids, and got rubbished for it, so suck up the pain of not making the finals (FFS we are Swannies we are champions of that) and move on.
New picks next season, hopefully we don't @@@@ it up - pich up a blue ship tall defender or two.

[wolftone57]

Harley Reid Cup!

Longmire in the post 9 game interview has said both Mills and McDonald are highly unlikely to play (but we will know more as it gets closer to final team selection).

Sheather had 73% time on ground for 5 possessions. I know he needs more games/experience and we got smashed at the centre bounce, but it was still very low output and impact. Gould was not great, but we don't have other options other than Melican so I suppose he stays.

Hoping Ladhams is well enough to play.

Outs: Mills, McDonald
Ins: Sheldrick, Ladhams
Sub: StephensLogan 8 weeks Mills about 6, a hammy. Will Tommy play? I hope he is OK and can play.

We​need to address some weaknesses. One is our inability to run and chase defensively in the mids because they are baked.

Our forwards need some cohesion and the mids have to find some sync with them.

Forwards are no chasing hard in a defensive structure

Our mids mix is too shallow with Paps & Heens obviously not fit enough to do many mi utes in there. If that is a problem chuck Wilbur in there.

Sheldrick to replace Mills & PLAY MIDS NOT FORWARD HORSE.

Backs need to settle and get some system back. Everyone has been talking about how bad both Gould & Francis have been.​But the greatest FB​of all time Silvagni would struggle in our backs at present. With the ball coming down so fast because the mids are off their men because they are baked. The other problem is there is no organisation and the coaches are getting the match ups badly wrong too.

Lets the kids down back settle and hopefully Lloyd will take some responsibility this week. He is a good player but not much of a organiser unfortunately and Fox seems to be a quiet sort of guy. Harry is loud but maybe lacks organisational skills? We need someone to step up back there.

They have lots of injuries as well. Two more out of our team. We can't replace Logan. So, we might go one of two ways, or both if we go opposite in the sub, tall or small. Bring in a ruck, Ladhams if fit or McAndrew or a small forward in Hall-Khan. Sheldrick to replace Mills IN THE MIDS HORSE.



Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[wolftone57]

Sheather played as a small defender in the VFL last year. They could think about moving him back and starting Campbell further up the ground.

If Ladhams isn't right and McDonald is out, I think McAndrew might have to play. That will at least free up McLean from second ruck duties. Neither he nor Hickey is likely to provide much of a threat resting up forward but we're running out of options.

Personally I'd bring in Stephens before Sheldrick (and maybe experiment with him at a few centre bounces) but I have no idea if the coaches will see it that way. I suspect they share doubts on Sheldrick's stamina at the moment to play a full game in the midfield. He could come in as a small forward (mostly) if Sheather is moved back and Campbell up.Campbell has to come up no matter who is there. Rankin could come in. Sheather too. McInerney could go back and Stephens come in. A few options.

But the reality is whoever plays in the backs, someonedownthere has to take charge. There is eff all communication diwnthere and nobody is organising. Half the time nobody knows who is minding who when the opposition switches. Lloyd is the most experienced, he should be organising.

We have too many players who are not fully fit. This is causing some major problems. They are unable to make a sustained chase and those that pinch hit in the mids have only done so for short periods due to lack od endurance fitness through carrying injurying . Heeney and Papley are carry soft tissue strains I would bet on it.



Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[i'm-uninformed2]

I'm very dubious on both Gould and Francis, as I think neither have the ahtletic profile and agility needed to play at AFL level. I watched Francis in particular from behind the goals at the Randwick end, and geez, my lard ass would move quicker and have a tighter turning circle. But, given our injuries, we might as well play them for an extended stretch and find out once and for all. If one of them makes a fist of it, great. If not, we know to delist.

[wolftone57]

I'm very dubious on both Gould and Francis, as I think neither have the ahtletic profile and agility needed to play at AFL level. I watched Francis in particular from behind the goals at the Randwick end, and geez, my lard ass would move quicker and have a tighter turning circle. But, given our injuries, we might as well play them for an extended stretch and find out once and for all. If one of them makes a fist of it, great. If not, we know to delist.Look to play in our backs at this stage would be a nightmare. We are getting 100 points kicked against us nearly every week. We are not kicking a score from our entries and the ball is coming back faster than a Super Fast Squash ball off a hard surface. I'd hate to be there trying to stop the running hoards with no mids backing up.

What's more there is no organisation down there. If Tommy is playing there is moret. But when he or Ramps do not play there us none. Lloyd seems incapable of organising the troops. Great player, terrible stand in backs captain.

So, even the best would struggle at the pace the ball is coming in. Who are the backs having to cope with? Forwards, both tall & small, plus the wingers, mids & half backs running down off their players. Not good.

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[111431]

Gould is now 3 games into his career, and he has been brought into a defensive unit decimated by injuries. It's not the easiest start to his career. Give him a run of games - we won't know if he is an AFL standard footballer if we don't play him.

agree 100%. Our poor defensive pressure from the midfield has made our defenders life a nightmare even without the injuries

[wolftone57]

agree 100%. Our poor defensive pressure from the midfield has made our defenders life a nightmare even without the injuriesI agree. How the hell do we know if he will be a good player or not. He has been thrown into a decimated backline with a team who's mids are too tired to chase and who's forwards just don't. I saw a situation where Buds opponent was on their HF line and Bud is still in our HF line. Fine if we get the ball back but at that time there was no hope of that he was handballing to a player in space. Lots of space. That is because the other player's opponent, one of our mids, was back on the wing sucking in big ones.

The ball is coming in so fast with so much overlap the backs have no chance. Even if they do get a man on man too many of our players fly leaving lots of opponents to clear the ball and kick goals. The backline is totally disorganised. We need someone to take responsibility and say 'just stick to your opponent'.

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[liz]

Per Longmire's midweek press conference, published a short while ago on the Swans website, Sheather is out this week with a recurrence of the stress issues in his foot. McCartin won't play, Ladhams almost certainly will.

Wouldn't commit to Sheldrick coming in or not, but did say there were a couple who would come in from the VFL side (which I guess is self-evident seeing that we've lost three and only Ladhams is right to return).

With Ladhams coming in, it seems unlikely this will be the week that McAndrew debuts. So the two ins are probably going to be two of Sheldrick, Stephens and Melican, with Warner and Hall-Kahan maybe outside chances. I can't think of anyone else who is even a remote possibility.

"We've had 21 changes to our team this year" - Longmire (https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/video/1333093/-we-ve-had-21-changes-to-our-team-this-year-longmire?videoId=1333093&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1684291984001)

[i'm-uninformed2]

Per Longmire's midweek press conference, published a short while ago on the Swans website, Sheather is out this week with a recurrence of the stress issues in his foot. McCartin won't play, Ladhams almost certainly will.

Wouldn't commit to Sheldrick coming in or not, but did say there were a couple who would come in from the VFL side (which I guess is self-evident seeing that we've lost three and only Ladhams is right to return).

With Ladhams coming in, it seems unlikely this will be the week that McAndrew debuts. So the two ins are probably going to be two of Sheldrick, Stephens and Melican, with Warner and Hall-Kahan maybe outside chances. I can't think of anyone else who is even a remote possibility.

"We've had 21 changes to our team this year" - Longmire (https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/video/1333093/-we-ve-had-21-changes-to-our-team-this-year-longmire?videoId=1333093&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1684291984001)

Also, apparently Bud spent two days in bed Thurs/Fri but played to fill the gaps. Doesn't explain everything, as the trajectory is real, but might explain the particularly poor movement on the weekend. Anyhoo, onwards and upwards hey

[Nico]

agree 100%. Our poor defensive pressure from the midfield has made our defenders life a nightmare even without the injuries

Our forward pressure is worse.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Our forward pressure is worse.

Gotta say agree with this big time. It's been an issue for a while and was seriously noticeable seeing it up close on Saturday. I've said before, we really need a pesky, defence focused small forward companion for Paps playing the role Wicks did (albeit well in first half of year, then falling away a bit from there) in 2021. Hayward's willing to do some of the work, but otherwise, we're light on for defensive effort down there.

[waswan]

Thats Konstanty if he gets healthy

[Auntie.Gerald]

Beware McAandrew

He has grit and is accumulating skill and games awareness

Pykey in the making

PS did see McAndrew deck Heeney on the outside near the line at training pre season

It was a great hit

[707]

I am comforted by the amount of outs this week at Norf, but still nervous!

Hopefully Buddy can get himself up for this and kick a bag to get past Wade on the all time goal kickers

[Thunder Shaker]

Also, apparently Bud spent two days in bed Thurs/Fri but played to fill the gaps. Doesn't explain everything, as the trajectory is real, but might explain the particularly poor movement on the weekend. Anyhoo, onwards and upwards hey
Swans forced to play 'really sick' Buddy as injuries pile up (https://www.afl.com.au/news/927737/swans-forced-to-play-really-sick-buddy-as-injuries-pile-up)

If there was an injury ladder, scored on most available first 22 players, we would be bottom four. West Coast is worse - they have so many injured that about half their list is unavailable.

The AFL does not have sufficient protection for particularly bad runs of injuries. This deficiency needs to be examined.

[liz]

The AFL does not have sufficient protection for particularly bad runs of injuries. This deficiency needs to be examined.

What do you suggest? The most obvious solution would be to increase list sizes but this is contrary to the apparent push to reduce them. This idea has reared its head again in the context of how the Tasmanian team will be set up. But there's also a thought (likely emanating from the better paid players in the competition) that the better players should get more of the pie. And that means sharing it amongst fewer players.

Apparently this will be no big deal. Clubs will just have supplementary lists pulled from the state level competitions. Which is great for those clubs with strong pools of state league players to choose from. ie not the NSW clubs. I am not sure what the quality of the Suns' and Lions' VFL squads is like because they've not had to call on them much. Brisbane has had an excellent run with injury over the last couple of seasons, while the Suns still have an extended list as part of their recent concessions.

[neilfws]

If there was an injury ladder, scored on most available first 22 players, we would be bottom four. West Coast is worse - they have so many injured that about half their list is unavailable.


There's a "games experience on the injury list" stat and indeed the Swans are bottom (or top) four (https://twitter.com/sirswampthing/status/1658438782167969792), with 815. Eagles are 1982! But then Geelong are 1103, illustrating the danger of looking for simple explanations using single measures.

Games experience on the available list is just as relevant of course - I guess Geelong go well on that score.

[Jimitron5000]

Here is another one. I looked at our available senior listed players who played VFL last week. Between the five of them, they have a total of 132 games experience with Melican, Wicks and Stephens making up 128. There is very little experienced depth available, and most of them are small (the other two players are Sheldrick and Corey Warner), which really limits our options.

[707]

Seasons from Hell. We are not alone here, two very recent examples are Collingwood and Melbourne

Melbourne were beaten Prelim finalists in 2018, 17th in 2019, Premiers in 2021

Collingwood 2018-2020 were finalists, (in 2020 traded their future first to GWS for a three 20-30s picks inadvertently handing GWS pick 2) 2021 were 17th but bounced back last year to narrowly miss the GF

We are now done it appears so need to use the balance of this season to our future advantage, just like Melbourne and Collingwood did.

[i'm-uninformed2]

This largely reflects my view that things can change quickly. They have for the worse this year for us, and can change back quickly for the better.

In 2019, Melbourne had the best ruckman in the league in Gawn, tapping the ball to the best contested/clearance player in the league in Oliver, a former no 1 draft pick in Petracca, a top 3 Brownlow place finisher in Brayshaw, and Jack Viney . . . and they finished 17th.

There is a real challenge for everyone at the club to fix certain things - the list issues we still have, consistency of performance, etc. So nothing is guaranteed. But it's sometimes part of the evolution of the team.

[ugg]

Big news!
Effective immediately, North Melbourne Football Club senior coach Alastair Clarkson will step away from the club to focus on his physical and emotional wellbeing. Current club assistant coach and former AFL senior coach, Brett Ratten, will take on the role of senior coach in the interim. Club statement: Alastair Clarkson (https://www.nmfc.com.au/news/1333348/club-statement-alastair-clarkson)

[707]

Is this good or bad for us on Saturday?

[KTigers]

Big news!Club statement: Alastair Clarkson (https://www.nmfc.com.au/news/1333348/club-statement-alastair-clarkson)

Yep, that is big news alright. You would think this will be mighty unsettling for North Melbourne. Who are not going well anyway.

[Jimitron5000]

Bloody hell...Hickey is out now with delayed concussion symptoms.
Might be time for McAndrew.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I genuinely hope he's ok. I don't necessarily like Clarko, but you'd still hope he's getting the help he needs - and good on the club for being so supportive of him.

Hick is out for us. I imagine Ladhams comes in for him. But do we also blood McAndrew with Logan out - playing McLean as a big body down forward as a contest target, and McAndrew as second ruck.

[dejavoodoo44]

I genuinely hope he's ok. I don't necessarily like Clarko, but you'd still hope he's getting the help he needs - and good on the club for being so supportive of him.

Hick is out for us. I imagine Ladhams comes in for him. But do we also blood McAndrew with Logan out - playing McLean as a big body down forward as a contest target, and McAndrew as second ruck.
Agree, and while I've no idea what's actually going on behind the scenes in the investigation, you'd think that since the investigative panel were supposed to wrap things up by the end of last year, then they would have spoken to Clarkson by now. Maybe the AFL were hoping if they just announced an investigation, then things would quietly fizzle out after that?

[dejavoodoo44]

Bloody hell...Hickey is out now with delayed concussion symptoms.
Might be time for McAndrew.
Yes, I'd quite like to see McAndrew picked. Does well in the ruck, has a bit of speed and can stick a tackle. Probably still has a bit to learn about playing forward, so if he plays, then perhaps their should be more of an even split between him and Ladhams, in regards to time in the ruck and time forward?

[Roadrunner]

Yes, I'd quite like to see McAndrew picked. Does well in the ruck, has a bit of speed and can stick a tackle. Probably still has a bit to learn about playing forward, so if he plays, then perhaps their should be more of an even split between him and Ladhams, in regards to time in the ruck and time forward?

Absolutely- McLean to FF, with Mac and Ladhams (if fit) for the ruck, and Gus in. If Ladhams still not right, bring in the Pelican.
Out: Mills, Logan, Sheather all injured😒
Sub: Stephens

[Ludwig]

Football has become really depressing with all the injuries, especially head injuries. Maybe it's time to ban high contact football codes as too dangerous to the health of players. As we learn more, it appears that football is an activity roughly similar to cigarette smoking when it comes to the health of the participants. Perhaps we should start with warning signs at schools that football is dangerous to your health, like we do with cigarette packs.

I can't remember a year being less interested in footy. It seems like the life has been sucked out of the game. So many things are just not right in AFL.

[wolftone57]

Can Will Gould play forward? Francis seems a better defender than forward, as an interceptor and given his dodgy set shot.Gould could play forward. He has also played mids in a match or two at Glenelg.

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[wolftone57]

If Tom McM and Ladhams are fit then they would come in plus Gus and Dyl for Mills, Logan, Sheather and Gould. Even if Tom and Pete are not fit, the outs should be the same. Maybe McAndrew comes in with Cory Warner.

The Gould question has been settled once and for all. He’s like so many footballers, he’s found his level one grade down.You are bagging one bloke after only 3 games in one of the worst teams in the comp? The ball comes into the backs so often and so fast that not even Alex Rance would be a good player. Not only that, there is little or no organisation in the backs since Rampe got injured. Tommy seems to give structure when he plays but even with him we lost. In fact in the​game before injury he was all at sea too.

I would hate to be playing in our backs at the moment with the hoards of loose players streaming in there

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[wolftone57]

I genuinely hope he's ok. I don't necessarily like Clarko, but you'd still hope he's getting the help he needs - and good on the club for being so supportive of him.

Hick is out for us. I imagine Ladhams comes in for him. But do we also blood McAndrew with Logan out - playing McLean as a big body down forward as a contest target, and McAndrew as second ruck.I really think we have to blood Big Mac now

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[liz]

There's a "games experience on the injury list" stat and indeed the Swans are bottom (or top) four (https://twitter.com/sirswampthing/status/1658438782167969792), with 815. Eagles are 1982! But then Geelong are 1103, illustrating the danger of looking for simple explanations using single measures.




The main difference between Geelong's injury list and ours is that theirs are mostly short-term and fairly recent (Jack Henry being the obvious exception). And I note that they lost last weekend with this injury list - to Richmond, hardly one of the form teams of the competition.

The biggest problem with our injury list isn't sheer number - other clubs have similar length, or longer, injury lists. It's the concentration amongst tall players. At both ends of the ground.

[wolftone57]

There has been no announcement of anyone debuting this week. So, that means blooded player only into the team.

Ladhams for Hickey obviously. It depends on when the Hickey delayed concussion was diagnosed as to whether Big Mac comes in or not. But seeing no debutant have been announced, I'd say not.

Melican is now a good prospect for a return.

Stephens and Sheldrick possible. Hall-Khan obviously not as no debutant have been announced.

If Melican does play then he might be able to organise the backs.

I am worried about our two way running. Our mids look shot by about 20 minutes into quarters and our forwards in the main do not chase. Only Will and Clarke. By the way Clarke is too slow at the moment to play on real speedsters. He has recovered from an injury and is only about 80% fitness.



Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[wolftone57]

The main difference between Geelong's injury list and ours is that theirs are mostly short-term and fairly recent (Jack Henry being the obvious exception). And I note that they lost last weekend with this injury list - to Richmond, hardly one of the form teams of the competition.

The biggest problem with our injury list isn't sheer number - other clubs have similar length, or longer, injury lists. It's the concentration amongst tall players. At both ends of the ground.I believe our injury list is a fitness problem. All soft tissue, all hammies, calfs, ankle, knee soreness etc except Rampe.​He is always a different dude lol. Neck injury from putting his head over the ball and getting it almost knocked off and no free.

Talls are more suceptible if not fully fit. Our program was very short this year due to starting later and we seemed to hit ball work very quickly. I don't know if that was something the coaches decided but I can't see the fitness coaches being happy about that. We are not hitting full fitness because of our injury list. Maybe full fitness was meant to be achieved after the bye?

Other than Bud being ill, we have Bern playing with players who are obviously in distress. Paps has a shoulder problem, he keeps feeling the shoulder after impact. Heens is also struggling with a niggle. He is not moving smoothly and his approach to marking contests is constricted.

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[Go Swannies]

There's a "games experience on the injury list" stat and indeed the Swans are bottom (or top) four (https://twitter.com/sirswampthing/status/1658438782167969792), with 815. Eagles are 1982! But then Geelong are 1103, illustrating the danger of looking for simple explanations using single measures.

Games experience on the available list is just as relevant of course - I guess Geelong go well on that score.

To be fair, that Geelong experience of 1103 games could just be two of its players in their 40s.

[longmile]

What a cluster @@@@!

Out: Hickey, McDonald, Mills, Sheather
In: Ladhams, McAndrew, Sheldrick, Stephens

[caj23]

You are bagging one bloke after only 3 games in one of the worst teams in the comp? The ball comes into the backs so often and so fast that not even Alex Rance would be a good player. Not only that, there is little or no organisation in the backs since Rampe got injured. Tommy seems to give structure when he plays but even with him we lost. In fact in the​game before injury he was all at sea too.

I would hate to be playing in our backs at the moment with the hoards of loose players streaming in there

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

The Big Cat is set against Gould, suggested we were tanking the other week when we selected him

[Foreign Legion]

Never seen so many injuries focused on big blokes - just no luck so far.

I have long thought McAndrew might be one of those players who IMPROVES in the Seniors. Not really sure why I feel this but at his height he is very mobile. Just needs to take a few marks.

[Thunder Shaker]

The AFL does not have sufficient protection for particularly bad runs of injuries. This deficiency needs to be examined.


What do you suggest? The most obvious solution would be to increase list sizes but this is contrary to the apparent push to reduce them. This idea has reared its head again in the context of how the Tasmanian team will be set up. But there's also a thought (likely emanating from the better paid players in the competition) that the better players should get more of the pie. And that means sharing it amongst fewer players.

Apparently this will be no big deal. Clubs will just have supplementary lists pulled from the state level competitions. Which is great for those clubs with strong pools of state league players to choose from. ie not the NSW clubs. I am not sure what the quality of the Suns' and Lions' VFL squads is like because they've not had to call on them much. Brisbane has had an excellent run with injury over the last couple of seasons, while the Suns still have an extended list as part of their recent concessions.
I'm not sure of the current rules, but something more formal with supplementary lists should be considered.

Last year, West Coast had such a bad bout of Covid-19 go through the side that they were forced to make many changes to the side and had to play some players from a supplementary list. This was a special rule for the Covid-19 pandemic, but something like this should become more permanent to cover bad runs of injuries or illnesses. I don't want to see a situation where a club has so many players out that they cannot field a full senior side of 23 players.

[Mountain Man]

One issue with our injury list being mostly KPP forwards and defenders is the knock-on effect of Time on Ground.

Typically, those players remain for 100% to mid 90%'s TOG. This is partly because they get regular rests when the ball is at the other end; and also because they tend to be the senior players with a number of pre-seasons in their fitness bank.

With the restrictions on rotations, our mids are getting fewer rest periods and shorter durations - with obvious consequences late in games

[Mark26]

So the big fella is getting his debut. I'm looking forward to see McAndrew play.

Good to see Stephens back in as well and Gould keeps his spot. A run of games should leave no doubt either way about his future. Ladham to assume primary ruck duties

[liz]

I'm not sure of the current rules, but something more formal with supplementary lists should be considered.

Last year, West Coast had such a bad bout of Covid-19 go through the side that they were forced to make many changes to the side and had to play some players from a supplementary list. This was a special rule for the Covid-19 pandemic, but something like this should become more permanent to cover bad runs of injuries or illnesses. I don't want to see a situation where a club has so many players out that they cannot field a full senior side of 23 players.

West Coast was the only team (I think) that got to call on its Covid supplementary list. But if you look at variation in quality of the lists that all the clubs submitted, you can see why some clubs would be severely disadvantaged, particularly if this came with a further reduction in the size of the official lists.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2022-full-list-of-covid-top-up-players-contingency-player-lists-daniel-menzel-casey-voss-adelaide-crows/news-story/b9e85026a57b2a466bd52fc237a7a723

[Aaron]

INS: Peter Ladhams, Lachlan McAndrew, Dylan Stephens
OUTS: Logan McDonald (injured), Callum Mills (injured), Tom Hickey (injured), Marc Sheather (injured)
Emergency: Edwards, Shedrick, Corey and Wicks ( No Melican)

[wolftone57]

It looks like we have taken the tall option.

Surprise, we do get a debut. I was almost certain because they had not pre-anbounced it we wouldn't.

Good, luck Lachy McAndrew (Big Mac) fully deserved. Averaging HO 30 & 18 Disposals at reserves level. He also averages about 4 tackles I think.

Ladhams​ was always in if fit.

Stephens had second most disposals on a wing last week.

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[wolftone57]

INS: Peter Ladhams, Lachlan McAndrew, Dylan Stephens
OUTS: Logan McDonald (injured), Callum Mills (injured), Tom Hickey (injured), Marc Sheather (injured)
Emergency: Edwards, Shedrick, Corey and Wicks ( No Melican)I was sort of hoping they did not pick Melican yet. He has not had enough match practice after siluch a long layoff,

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[troyjones2525]

Seasons from Hell. We are not alone here, two very recent examples are Collingwood and Melbourne

Melbourne were beaten Prelim finalists in 2018, 17th in 2019, Premiers in 2021

Collingwood 2018-2020 were finalists, (in 2020 traded their future first to GWS for a three 20-30s picks inadvertently handing GWS pick 2) 2021 were 17th but bounced back last year to narrowly miss the GF

We are now done it appears so need to use the balance of this season to our future advantage, just like Melbourne and Collingwood did.Ah yes, Melbourne having a down year in 2019 so what did they do? The went to the draft and selected Luke Jackson and Kozzie Pickett, two players who were important in their 2021 premiership side... incidentally we drafted Stephens that year... Ouch!

This just magnifies the importance of making your picks count at the top end of the draft and first round! Something I don't think we've exactly nailed in recent times.... hopefully we can do better this year.

Sent from my SM-F936B using Tapatalk

[SCGonasunnyday]

Let’s go! Not sure what else we could do with our many outs. I don’t just want to win on Sat, I want to win well and get a smile back on everyone’s faces

[wolftone57]

Never seen so many injuries focused on big blokes - just no luck so far.

I have long thought McAndrew might be one of those players who IMPROVES in the Seniors. Not really sure why I feel this but at his height he is very mobile. Just needs to take a few marks.I watched him ruck in the reserves.​ He was really good. His tap work is, excellent and he is strong in thr ruck contest. He also played a few tackles and took some good marks. It does help being 210cm in a ruck or marking contest.

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[i'm-uninformed2]

Good on McAndrew, and good on Horse and co for selecting him.

As someone who lives outside Sydney these days, I hadn’t seen him live till my visit on the weekend. I made a post in the ressies thread that I went along early to specifically watch him and was impressed. He is still a work in progress, and first game rucks usually struggle, but he appears a keeper so it’s good he gets a taste for it. My main hope is we actually give him decent time in the ruck, and not just largely plonk him forward.

[troyjones2525]

The Big Cat is set against Gould, suggested we were tanking the other week when we selected himAre you saying The Big Cat was being critical??? I thought that wasn't allowed on this forum! [emoji12]

Sent from my SM-F936B using Tapatalk

[troyjones2525]

I watched him ruck in the reserves.​ He was really good. His tap work is, excellent and he is strong in thr ruck contest. He also played a few tackles and took some good marks. It does help being 210cm in a ruck or marking contest.

Sent from my JAT-L29 using TapatalkExcited to see another debut and especially a player who we desperately need to come on and be a success story in a position we don't have great depth in.

As others have noted, his improvement has been exciting as his mobility for a big man is good!

The one area I really hope he improves in is his contested marking.

A dominant contested marking ruckman is a massive plus to any side, and if you are pushing for finals and premierships they can be a difference in winning and losing some big games. Look at the influence Gawn had in Melbourne's premiership!

He started out as a bit of a tall project player and worked hard to develop into the player he is today!

If McAndrew can develop that part of his game whilst continuing to improve in the other areas he already has, then we might have a missing piece that we have desperately needed! [emoji4]

Sent from my SM-F936B using Tapatalk

[barry]

Absolute must win game. A loss to norf would damage the playing group so much.

[wolftone57]

Good on McAndrew, and good on Horse and co for selecting him.

As someone who lives outside Sydney these days, I hadn’t seen him live till my visit on the weekend. I made a post in the ressies thread that I went along early to specifically watch him and was impressed. He is still a work in progress, and first game rucks usually struggle, but he appears a keeper so it’s good he gets a taste for it. My main hope is we actually give him decent time in the ruck, and not just largely plonk him forward.I remember Sam Naismith coming in for his first name against Ivan Maric, arguably the best Ruckman in 2014. He was woeful but battled on.Tough match up first up. He was the only ruck because Pyke and Derrickx were both injured.

Big Mac does not have that problem as Ladhams is there. I hope the lad does well

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[Roadrunner]

Football has become really depressing with all the injuries, especially head injuries. Maybe it's time to ban high contact football codes as too dangerous to the health of players. As we learn more, it appears that football is an activity roughly similar to cigarette smoking when it comes to the health of the participants. Perhaps we should start with warning signs at schools that football is dangerous to your health, like we do with cigarette packs.

I can't remember a year being less interested in footy. It seems like the life has been sucked out of the game. So many things are just not right in AFL.

This is not like you, Ludwig! Sure, head injuries are a concern but we’ve been playing this game since Noah left the Ark! I suspect more damage has been done to mental health from Covid and the lockdowns, but of course we must do everything possible to minimise this in our game. All clubs now treat any issue very conservatively, as they should, and the medicos decide when a player can safely return.

Maybe you’re a bit down due to our long and persistent injury list and that 6-8 weeks out is so devastating for our young team, especially as we expected to be in the window. This is a time when we need to keep our spirits high and encourage each other and get behind our great club!

[wolftone57]

Excited to see another debut and especially a player who we desperately need to come on and be a success story in a position we don't have great depth in.

As others have noted, his improvement has been exciting as his mobility for a big man is good!

The one area I really hope he improves in is his contested marking.

A dominant contested marking ruckman is a massive plus to any side, and if you are pushing for finals and premierships they can be a difference in winning and losing some big games. Look at the influence Gawn had in Melbourne's premiership!

He started out as a bit of a tall project player and worked hard to develop into the player he is today!

If McAndrew can develop that part of his game whilst continuing to improve in the other areas he already has, then we might have a missing piece that we have desperately needed! [emoji4]

Sent from my SM-F936B using TapatalkMcAvoy & Ottens were other rucks that really impacted contests.

I think the kid can improve that part of his game tôi. It is coming bit by bit. He is a wonderful tập ruck. When he started he was very raw there. He tackles and follows up. Early he seemed a bit shy. Early he was averaging 4-5 disposals/match, now 18. He can also bring th ball to ground

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[liz]

I think McAndrew's contested marking is one area that has already improved significantly since last year.

I wouldn't want to be relying on him to kick the winning goal if he happens to find himself forward in a tight finish. He might do well to get on the phone to Mike Pyke and ask him to wander down to the SCG one week for some guidance on how to develop an ugly but effective goal kicking routine.

[Nico]

I think McAndrew's contested marking is one area that has already improved significantly since last year.

I wouldn't want to be relying on him to kick the winning goal if he happens to find himself forward in a tight finish. He might do well to get on the phone to Mike Pyke and ask him to wander down to the SCG one week for some guidance on how to develop an ugly but effective goal kicking routine.

Hopefully we can start winning our fair share of centre clearances. It will be interesting to see how our mids adjust at centre bounces. For once we might have the ball going forward at centre bounces.

[Blood Fever]

Hopefully we can start winning our fair share of centre clearances. It will be interesting to see how our mids adjust at centre bounces. For once we might have the ball going forward at centre bounces.

Good point. When Naismith was up and running, he made a difference at centre bounces. In many seasons, we have been ordinary in there.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Good point. When Naismith was up and running, he made a difference at centre bounces. In many seasons, we have been ordinary in there.

Sigh. I still remember how good his tap work looked in that first game of the season vs Adelaide in 2020, just before he went down again. He was so deft and made our mids look so good.

[Jimitron5000]

Don't mind the ins, although it isn't like we are spoiled for choice.
I thought Sheldrick might have been given a go but am pleased McAndrew is getting a game. Saw him play in the twos a few weeks back and he looked good, particularly at the centre bounces.

[wolftone57]

Hopefully we can start winning our fair share of centre clearances. It will be interesting to see how our mids adjust at centre bounces. For once we might have the ball going forward at centre bounces.Ladhams is not bad at helping mids get the ball out. But Big Mac puts ball into their lap. I can't wait to see how he goes.

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[wolftone57]

Sigh. I still remember how good his tap work looked in that first game of the season vs Adelaide in 2020, just before he went down again. He was so deft and made our mids look so good.Indeed. The influence of a truly good tập Ruckman can't be ignored. There are some out there that think ruckmen are a thing of the past but I am not one.​I saw Peter Carey gift Glenelg two premierships through superb or Super tập ruck work

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I remember Sam Naismith coming in for his first name against Ivan Maric, arguably the best Ruckman in 2014. He was woeful but battled on.Tough match up first up. He was the only ruck because Pyke and Derrickx were both injured.

Big Mac does not have that problem as Ladhams is there. I hope the lad does well

I think you may be misremembering Wolfie, my recollection is that Sam did not battle on - he was exhausted and completely spent after the first half and DirtyKurt took over the ruck while Sam watched the rest of the game from the pine.
I hope McAndrew does well too - but I'm not ready to over inflate the kids tyres just yet.

[crackedactor 01]

I also remember Darcy Cameron's debut were he got about 2 disposals and a handful of hit outs. Now he is a handy AFL player, alas for Collingwood though.

[wolftone57]

I think you may be misremembering Wolfie, my recollection is that Sam did not battle on - he was exhausted and completely spent after the first half and DirtyKurt took over the ruck while Sam watched the rest of the game from the pine.
I hope McAndrew does well too - but I'm not ready to over inflate the kids tyres just yet.

No. He was not spent. I remember that quite well. Longmire pulled him. He was getting towelled up very badly by Maric. He battled on until half time then Longmire pulled him. Maric was probably the best in the league at that stage. Not a really good match to start your career. Could have started against Carlton or Bullies who's rucks were overrated.

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[Hotpotato]

Norfs will be urged bigtime to
‘Do it for Clarko’
Do they love him enough to cooperate?

[barry]

Norfs will be urged bigtime to
‘Do it for Clarko’
Do they love him enough to cooperate?

If you believe the accusations against Clarko, then its not hard to believe his recent actions are re-framing the debate to make him the 'victim'.

Anyway, I'm glad the swans are 1000 miles away from this mess.

[Sandridge]

Yes, North have already started the "Do it for Clarko" thing. Always find exhortations like this amusing. Elite athletes don't get to the top by needing a reason to try especially hard!

[snajik]

Was it by design or by coincidence that Clarko decided to step away during the Sir Doug Nicholls Round?
You'd think that elite athletes would be able to get their sht together without requiring some seismic event like a coach to trigger a return to form. I do expect North to be more 'spirited.' Most sides would probably see themselves as being a chance atm against an injury decimated Swans outfit.

I'm more superstitious about facing a side that has been pilloried by the media in the week leading into the game. Particularly when they have had their effort and / or desire questioned. Seems to have happened to us too often in recent times. The 2017 Semi v Geelong was one of the worst examples.

[troyjones2525]

Sigh. I still remember how good his tap work looked in that first game of the season vs Adelaide in 2020, just before he went down again. He was so deft and made our mids look so good.He was brilliant that game and our on-ballers really benefited from his dominance! I was really excited for him and the side going forward that day! Such a tragedy how it all turned out...

TBH I reckon that McAndrew has had a similar trajectory so far in the ressies from being a real project player, to now looking like someone who might actually make it at the top level!

Hopefully he does ok tomorrow and then gains some more confidence from it!

Sent from my SM-F936B using Tapatalk

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Sigh. I still remember how good his tap work looked in that first game of the season vs Adelaide in 2020, just before he went down again. He was so deft and made our mids look so good.

Yep, Crayfish to Ollie and away was a thing of sublime beauty, super clean clearances - alas it did not last.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

No. He was not spent. I remember that quite well. Longmire pulled him. He was getting towelled up very badly by Maric. He battled on until half time then Longmire pulled him. Maric was probably the best in the league at that stage. Not a really good match to start your career. Could have started against Carlton or Bullies who's rucks were overrated.

Saying Sam "battled on" when he sat out the whole second half was simply nonsense. And that doesn't change when you shift ground and start argueing why he was benched.

[redstarforever]

how things change before you realise today swans up n about in full force then all of a sudden half our team is on the injury list ffs! no excuses though, we are due for some positives and should take care of nth today 😊

[wolftone57]

If you believe the accusations against Clarko, then its not hard to believe his recent actions are re-framing the debate to make him the 'victim'.

Anyway, I'm glad the swans are 1000 miles away from this mess.The AFL have shut the enquiry down. They say nothing to see here. No discrimination. If it had been handed to the Anti-Discrimination Commission in the first place I would be much more confident. Then it would no longer be an AFL problem and it would be a truly independent enquiry

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[wolftone57]

Now to today's game. Obviously, Stretch gets to play forward today. He is 210cm. Let's hope he can find the pill and take a few big grabs

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

[Blood Fever]

Now to today's game. Obviously, Stretch gets to play forward today. He is 210cm. Let's hope he can find the pill and take a few big grabs

Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

6ft 10 and a bit in the old. Seriously big unit.