The future of Premier League

[WomblingFree]

Over the years the 1st division Sydney comp has had many names.

The overall history is that an eight team semi professional league is the natural amount of teams for a high level comp. Home and away plus a bye and a rep weekend.

So, what teams?

IMO all teams must have a junior base.

North Shore, Baulko, Penno, Easts/UNSW and St George are givens.

Add in Sydney Uni for their inner city work and private school connections.

So that leaves three into two?

UTS are a barnacle that adds little to the lcoal game. Drop them to the lower leagues and win flags against Penrith or Cronulla.

Manly have a good junior league and should be retained.

Wests have poor juniors and a marginal leagues club that used to bankroll them. I’d keep them for now but what we really need is a strong western Sydney team like what Campbelltown used to be. Problem is that, despite GWS AFL in western Sydney has never been weaker

[Blinkers28]

I would think all 9 clubs from this year remain for next year, with South West moving up to make it a 10 team competition.

The desired alignment between Men’s Prems and Women’s Prems should be a step closer with Power dropping down and St George moving up.

[Norris Lurker]

I would think all 9 clubs from this year remain for next year, with South West moving up to make it a 10 team competition.

The desired alignment between Men’s Prems and Women’s Prems should be a step closer with Power dropping down and St George moving up.That's what I'm hearing as well.
I'm also hearing that Prems Reserves & Platinum will be abolished and we're going back to divisionalisation.

[mrns]

That's what I'm hearing as well.
I'm also hearing that Prems Reserves & Platinum will be abolished and we're going back to divisionalisation.

Wow, surprised prems reserves will be desolved too, any idea what the reasoning is there?

Seems like next year is going to be a whack year for premierships, those graded incorrectly are going to get a nice bit of a silverware

[andreww1]

Wow, surprised prems reserves will be desolved too, any idea what the reasoning is there?

Seems like next year is going to be a whack year for premierships, those graded incorrectly are going to get a nice bit of a silverware

It is designed to make it easier for Platinum clubs to work their way in to Prems. Understandably the AFL are keen to get a club from south west Sydney or western Sydney up in to Prems eventually and create a strong club to represent the game in those growing geographical areas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tom Wills]

I know I posted this suggestion on another thread, but more applicable here.

"What if SWS, Parra and Camden were all promoted (Yes all three would need some special assistance from Sydney AFL).

That would stop any newly promoted "West" team from poaching juniors from each other.

That would give 4 or 5 "bottom half" teams so they would regularly get wins or play in competitive games. It would be a perfect 12-team competition.

If we looked at it based on today's end of season ladders there would be a top 4, middle 3 and bottom 5.

[Blinkers28]

The danger with going back to a divisionalised competition is that you could very well see a scenario of a 4 team Div 1 competition and a 20 team Div 5 competition, if clubs take advantage of the nomination process.

[Tom Wills]

Also if you look at Junior pathway numbers there is a real need for another Prems club in the lower North Shore. My understanding is that this is the new Junior heartland of AFL is the lower North Shore.
Without a complete change in the Uni administration Mac Uni will never be a Prems club. Could St Ives be resurrected? Could a new Prems club emerge out of Mosman or North Sydney Oval?

[Old Puppy]

Also if you look at Junior pathway numbers there is a real need for another Prems club in the lower North Shore. My understanding is that this is the new Junior heartland of AFL is the lower North Shore.
Without a complete change in the Uni administration Mac Uni will never be a Prems club. Could St Ives be resurrected? Could a new Prems club emerge out of Mosman or North Sydney Oval?

Competion has regressed since 2020, standards have slipped, clubs are basically broke, volunteers tired and the only thing keeping the top 4-5 growing is an elusive premiership. ABsolute folly to think the platinium teams could individually compete, fractured junior pathways and going head to head.

Governence has cut to the bone via PPS, VFL Interchange and over ruled rather than supporting club improvement acrosss many areas, continue to do nothing about single issue and that is FACILITIES. Clubs are told what to do, how to run game day, and then are herded into a managed environment by the AFL where every club just follows there lead.

Long gone are days where AFL SYdney should be helping clubs improve standards with an understanding that there is no competition without clubs. Most clubs are that insular, that they simply do not understand the Sydney ecosystem, impact that VFL has on the local competition, lack of unisex facilities, all while AFL governence is beholden to Swans & GWS.

Its an inditement on community compettion that both Swans & Giants VFL Teams are not even close to competing at finals level. Yet our governing body rules players ineligable, at a time when we should be showcasing Sydney footy.

The local competition is a million miles away from where it needs to be to underpin standards and promoting teams for the sake of it is not the answer. Problem with he governence is that for the last 6 years they have accepted less than minimum standards from PD clubs, which speaks to lack of leadership and ability to make the tough calls.

Until these are made, the local competition standard will never reach a level that befits NSW having a state level standard, with all PD clubs competitive and prospering.

[Norris Lurker]

I know I posted this suggestion on another thread, but more applicable here.

"What if SWS, Parra and Camden were all promoted (Yes all three would need some special assistance from Sydney AFL). Parra got lapped by North Shore's thirds yesterday. Parra's a good club, they've got a great facility at Gipps Road; they may even get into Div 1 in a divisionalised structure - but there's no way they could be competitive at Prems level.

[mrns]

It is designed to make it easier for Platinum clubs to work their way in to Prems. Understandably the AFL are keen to get a club from south west Sydney or western Sydney up in to Prems eventually and create a strong club to represent the game in those growing geographical areas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for this, makes sense


I know I posted this suggestion on another thread, but more applicable here.

"What if SWS, Parra and Camden were all promoted (Yes all three would need some special assistance from Sydney AFL).

That would stop any newly promoted "West" team from poaching juniors from each other.

That would give 4 or 5 "bottom half" teams so they would regularly get wins or play in competitive games. It would be a perfect 12-team competition.

If we looked at it based on today's end of season ladders there would be a top 4, middle 3 and bottom 5.

On the basis of above, agreed by allowing more into the comp you'd have a more natural 3 tiered competition with minimal need to stress about being pumped in Prems Reserves each week. We should not be concerned with equalisation in terms of the fixture, as the AFL is not.

More important, each team should have their second grade team in no less than Division 2 with intent to bring them to Div 1 standard.


The danger with going back to a divisionalised competition is that you could very well see a scenario of a 4 team Div 1 competition and a 20 team Div 5 competition, if clubs take advantage of the nomination process.

Nightmare if those come back, had a year where we weren't even scheduled to play against another club during the season and it was only 13 odd teams in the comp over 16 games.


Also if you look at Junior pathway numbers there is a real need for another Prems club in the lower North Shore. My understanding is that this is the new Junior heartland of AFL is the lower North Shore.
Without a complete change in the Uni administration Mac Uni will never be a Prems club. Could St Ives be resurrected? Could a new Prems club emerge out of Mosman or North Sydney Oval?

I believe North Sydney Oval is utilised by Norths Rugby as well as Shute shield finals, correct me if I am wrong.

If anything something a little bit more north than North Shore may be better suited if there is a need around that St Ives sort of thinking as the Lower North Shore is serviced by North Shore Bombers already. Anyone that lives in the lower north shore, thats played at an "elite" private school (assuming juniors includes private school comp which is growing massively), is probably going to go with the "elite" club in North Shore should they exist too close.

If you want a better club for catching more of the juniors, its more than likely going to involve Mac Uni and perhaps other ways of improving it's catchment like it's location/ground use

[Norris Lurker]

It is designed to make it easier for Platinum clubs to work their way in to Prems. Understandably the AFL are keen to get a club from south west Sydney or western Sydney up in to Prems eventually and create a strong club to represent the game in those growing geographical areas.
Camden were getting belted every week in Prems a couple of years ago, now they're dominating Platinum. Playing against Prems Reserves teams is about their level - going to divisionalisation works for them. Probably not so much for clubs where seniors & reserves will be split more often.

[Tom Wills]

Hi Old Pup - agree with all of your comments.
What is the solution?
Can you give us a 10-point plan to fix footy in Sydney and set it up for the next 20 years (Ha I don't work for the AFL, just interested in your thoughts).

[andreww1]

Over the years the 1st division Sydney comp has had many names.

The overall history is that an eight team semi professional league is the natural amount of teams for a high level comp. Home and away plus a bye and a rep weekend.

So, what teams?

IMO all teams must have a junior base.

North Shore, Baulko, Penno, Easts/UNSW and St George are givens.

Add in Sydney Uni for their inner city work and private school connections.

So that leaves three into two?

UTS are a barnacle that adds little to the lcoal game. Drop them to the lower leagues and win flags against Penrith or Cronulla.

Manly have a good junior league and should be retained.

Wests have poor juniors and a marginal leagues club that used to bankroll them. I’d keep them for now but what we really need is a strong western Sydney team like what Campbelltown used to be. Problem is that, despite GWS AFL in western Sydney has never been weaker

From afar I always find the battle of the eastern suburbs quite amusing. Given the close proximity of UTS and UNSW it’s not surprising that there is fierce animosity between some at each club.
If you look at the top Div 1 junior teams in both boys and girls comp there is clearly enough talent to supply 2 senior clubs, as well as Randwick.
But which club, UNSW or UTS, would you say had the stronger season? Which is the stronger club?
UTS fielded 9 teams and will play in 5 grand finals. UNSW fielded 6 and a half (1 JV) teams and will play in 2 grand finals.
Yes UNSW will play in men’s Prems and 19s Grannies, but UTS will play women’s Prems.
Thoughts?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mrns]

Early announcement from moore park. Good on them.

U19.5s doesn't roll of the tongue as well, I'm sure we'll just keep calling it u19s

https://sydneyafl.com.au/2023/09/22/media-release-afl-sydney-competition-structure-changes-and-premier-division-promotions/?fbclid=IwAR0O7aLR0sNCJQR11oN9IkjLo_SmRuFwzVIHVU8X Rfd6n9x8Iptb_FlGedA

[Nuttsy]

Congrats to all at SWS. Despite some of the crap thrown at them about paying every player thousands of $$$, the work that has been put in from all to not only bring the two clubs together, which is an effort in itself, but also building many relationships and pathways with junior clubs across the South West over the last 4-5 years has been outstanding. It is so good to see an avenue for young footballers to be able to again play at the highest level locally and not have to travel all over the shop to other Prems clubs. Lets hope that everyone keeps striving to improve and get the area back to its rightful place as a powerhouse of Sydney AFL.

[Blinkers28]

Good luck trying to put a schedule together in the now-returned divisional structure that helps club volunteers. That was one massive plus the Platinum and Premier division/reserves structure had going.

[WomblingFree]

Good luck trying to put a schedule together in the now-returned divisional structure that helps club volunteers. That was one massive plus the Platinum and Premier division/reserves structure had going.

That we cannot even have a three team structure at the premier level that works illustrates how Tim pot our local league is. Gone backwards massively over the last 30 years at the grassroots level.

Clearly better junior pathways and slightly higher overall team numbers. Obviously huge growth in the women’s game.

But overall the AFL has quite a paltry grassroots reward for the hundreds of millions it’s invested in Sydney though commercially may be a different story

[saviour01]

Why do you want a three team structure when most clubs have well beyond that these days? Any more than 3 teams and you are playing all over the place each weekend anyway. Better off having teams playing in a comp at their level.

[Old Puppy]

AFL 2023: North Melbourne assistance package, AFL handout, first round draft picks, Chris Scott, Ross Lyon, anger, win-loss record, AFL 360 (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/dig-yourself-out-afl-coaches-hit-out-at-roos-blatant-manipulation-handout/news-story/571fea4a2ea5942d606da8fa5571c834)

Tom Wills - here is a novel idea, from within the ranks. How about AFL Sydney host an open club forum entitled " The future of Premier League" with no AFL Controlled agenda, with Robertson/Boulos in attendance, With Zikman/Goode/Alex Smith the gatekeepers so that emotive commentary is kept to a minimum, where notes are taken and improvements made. It has never happened, Why? When their is so much angst out there amongst the clubs and the standards in particular competition are so poor.

Do yourself a favour and everyone else on this agenda based thread, listen to coaches commentary last night on AFL360 - Manipulation, Handouts all in the name of equalization, its not Zikman fault its the organisation, its a top down approach within the AFL but at community level its ALL about bottom up because thats what equalization is ALL about.

Locally, we are beholden to the AFL-Swans & Giants and the sooner everyone works that all out the better outcomes at club land.

[andreww1]

AFL 2023: North Melbourne assistance package, AFL handout, first round draft picks, Chris Scott, Ross Lyon, anger, win-loss record, AFL 360 (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/dig-yourself-out-afl-coaches-hit-out-at-roos-blatant-manipulation-handout/news-story/571fea4a2ea5942d606da8fa5571c834)

Tom Wills - here is a novel idea, from within the ranks. How about AFL Sydney host an open club forum entitled " The future of Premier League" with no AFL Controlled agenda, with Robertson/Boulos in attendance, With Zikman/Goode/Alex Smith the gatekeepers so that emotive commentary is kept to a minimum, where notes are taken and improvements made. It has never happened, Why? When their is so much angst out there amongst the clubs and the standards in particular competition are so poor.

Do yourself a favour and everyone else on this agenda based thread, listen to coaches commentary last night on AFL360 - Manipulation, Handouts all in the name of equalization, its not Zikman fault its the organisation, its a top down approach within the AFL but at community level its ALL about bottom up because thats what equalization is ALL about.

Locally, we are beholden to the AFL-Swans & Giants and the sooner everyone works that all out the better outcomes at club land.

What a waste of time that would be. Everyone pushing their own agenda. No reference to the data just everyone’s own perceptions, bias, and self interest. It would divide clubs even more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tom Wills]

[QUOTE=Old Puppy;877697][url="https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/dig-yourself-out-afl-coaches-hit-out-at-roos-blatant-manipulation-handout/news-story/571fea4a2ea5942d606da8fa5571c834"]
Tom Wills - here is a novel idea, from within the ranks. How about AFL Sydney host an open club forum entitled " The future of Premier League" .....

Old Pup - I think the difference between you and me is that I believe a strong Premier comp will be the outcome of a bigger community footy base. The Plutonium League was never a good idea to grow team numbers.
With the new single competition structure, hopefully, over the next 10 years, Sydney Footy will grow to be a 10 Division structure with all clubs aiming to be like North Shore with a Gazillion teams.
From that, the Premier Division will ultimately get stronger.