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Thread: That damn Premiership window (aka How does 2010 look?)

  1. #13
    Salt future's rising SimonH's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: That damn Premiership window (aka How does 2010 look?)

    Originally posted by Guzzitza
    I find it difficult to see how you intend to do this , somehow prepare for the next 3 or 4 years time yet keep these key players on at the same time. [snip] Thats why there is the window, the coach will keep the best players he has out on the field for as long as possible, even though it can mean hampering younger players development - because you need to make the most of those great players you have, while you still have them.
    You're half-right; but AFL players are not born great, and we're not actually after clones of our current great players. BBBH is not a clone of Lockett; MOL is not a clone of anyone, certainly not Simon Minton-Connell or Capper. Goodes is tearing up the rule-book as he goes. None of Buchanan, Kirk or JBolt plays exactly the game that Schwass, Paul Kelly or Cresswell did. We're after good, hopefully great, players who play in the relevant parts of the ground, not replicas of the great players who went before.

    Luckily, because you can have more than 6 players on the ground at once, you can get game time, confidence and a feel for the team's game into the next generation of players without having to take the senior group off the ground. They certainly have to take a big step up after BBBH or MOL retires. But that big step becomes an impossible step if some 'genius' 18 year old plays his first game the week after BBBH hangs up his boots, and the public is told, 'Behold! Your new key forward is here!' Grundy will earn more than 3 or 4 games a year over the next 2 or 3 years if he's good enough to be a long-term key forward, even if MOL and BBBH play every game in that time.

    The best-case scenario is that a player takes the mantle, he doesn't wait for it to be handed to him: i.e. by the time 2008 rolls around, people are going to the game and saying, 'Micky O is a legend of the club; but the guy you've really got to watch out for is Reg Grundy'. You can debate whether Malceski contributed more to the team than Williams in the matches both played (possibly not); but I know who I was more excited to turn up and watch.

    There are heaps of examples of that natural development in the Swans squad. In 2001, Leo Barry was more of a support act in defence and was not the elite player he has become, Kirk really came on as a player and a leader when Schwass and Paul Kelly were nearing or at the end, Goodes had huge talent but was erratic as all hell 5 years ago, JBolt was always keen as a puppy but didn't have anywhere near the leadership skills he now has, Schneider stepped seemingly from nowhere into a slot for a small forward in 2003, etcetera. Players develop into the roles as they're able to take them and as opportunities arise. The above achievements occurred without the coaching group having to force Schwass off the park so that Kirk could develop a greater sense of responsibility, etc.

    'Several key players around the same age' is the important phrase, but it's apt to mislead in terms of longevity. Some footballers go until 33-34 or longer, some retire at 29. More years than not, every club will lose one or more 'key players'. Just a product of dividing the number of good players at a club by the average length of career. What you're looking to avoid is too many structurally important players retiring at the same time. Kirk for example is a key player, but isn't structurally that important. MOL probably isn't either; even though he does things that no other forward is likely to, our gameplan doesn't revolve around him (as opposed to some other marking forward) being there.

    BBBH and Leo Barry are really the big ones. What we're looking to avoid, is both of them retiring in the same year. Should hopefully be manageable.

  2. #14
    Senior Player Bloody Hell's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: That damn Premiership window (aka How does 2010 look?)

    Originally posted by SimonH

    BBBH and Leo Barry are really the big ones. What we're looking to avoid, is both of them retiring in the same year. Should hopefully be manageable.
    At the time of his retirement I don't think Leo is going to be a huge loss. He should have played his whole career matching up on Russell Robinson type players...but instead through need has grown a foot (or two) and is constantly having to punch above his weight and height.

    This year for the first time he hasn't dominated the way he has in previous years (remember him taking on a rampaging Gehrig and keeping him to 2 touches, both handballs) - lost a little pace and a little leap. He should now be playing back pocket (he'd be the best in the league) - which the swans have covered.

    This is why I think it should be a priority to pick up a key defender. (or Grundy or Vogels). Leo Barry has been, as still is a great servant of our club. I don't want anybody to say 'he's crap' blah, blah, blah because as he gets older he can't take the jobs he'd been able to in the past. They should be proactive in finding a solution...not wait till it is bleeding obvious.

    You say you don't think MOL will be missed - but with a forward structure that is more often than not 4 guys I think he will. My concern is that MOL and BBBH will retire in the same year.

    It's probably best to look at the probable (unprobable) forward structure in 2009 - but lookinig at next year

    No doubt Grundy will play next year as a leading FF (The forward structure worked well with his addition this year). Micky O, will play as a stay at home FF and be giving master classes in
    contested marking (take note BBBH), or play further up the ground (depending on how the body holds up - I notice he seems to be having more and more trouble riding out the season). Plus Davis, O'Keefe, and another small forward/ rotating midfielder.

    Say MOL retires - Does an aging BBBH go to FF? Does Grundy/Vogels play as CHF?....I think this is too far in the future to comment on....too many variables.

    So in answer to does 2010 look good....we have the 2nd youngest list in the competition and we just played in 2 GF's....yes, it looks good!
    Last edited by Bloody Hell; 11th October 2006 at 06:05 AM.
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  3. #15
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    Super thread guys.
    But just to indulge the pendant in me - "we have the 2nd youngest list in the competition" isn't right. For the 2006 season we had the 8th youngest, but it was the youngest of the other Top 4 teams.
    However our oldest 22 are just about our Grand Final 22, so getting games into the younger players whilst pushing for a flag is going to be a key challenge.

  4. #16
    The obvious replacement up forward has been forshadowed by Roos himself... Adam Goodes.

    http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/foo...E19774,00.html

    Personally I doubt Vogels or Grundy will develop into a key player of the influence of a Hall, but in Goodes we already have an elite player who could be very damaging on the lead or playing tall in the mould of a Lynch.

    I also think ROK could eventually play Hall's leading roll from CHF given he is a better mark than Baz anyway.
    "As everyone knows our style of football is defensive and unattractive, and as such I have completely forgotten how to mark or kick over the years" - Brett Kirk

  5. #17
    RWOs Black Sheep AnnieH's Avatar
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    Originally posted by hammo
    The obvious replacement up forward has been forshadowed by Roos himself... Adam Goodes.

    http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/foo...E19774,00.html

    Personally I doubt Vogels or Grundy will develop into a key player of the influence of a Hall, but in Goodes we already have an elite player who could be very damaging on the lead or playing tall in the mould of a Lynch.

    I also think ROK could eventually play Hall's leading roll from CHF given he is a better mark than Baz anyway.
    Thanks Hammo. I didn't want to mention goodesy ... again!!
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  6. #18
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    IMHO I think we have the best ratio of ages/positions played/money paid in the league. It is for this reason we will continue to have a successful stint at the top.

    Think of it this way
    ages 18-23 (Largest group and paid a developing wage)
    ages 24-28 (Middle bracket in pay and ample supply of backups)
    ages 29 and above (Highest paid and fewest in number)

    Other clubs have too many youth (Hawthorn, Carlton, Geelong)or too highly paid group of veterans (Brisbane, St Kilda, Essendon) and have paid for it.

    Not rushing youth into action can have disadvantages, but with Demspter, McVeigh, Kennelly, Goodes, etc it has worked to be patient. There is no need to rush players in, development to be the right size and discipline allows us to be the success story of being in the finals most years over the last 10 or so.

    Our highest paid are in the top age bracket with only a few exceptions ala Goodes, allows wage increase to better players when they retire, have experience available in next tier, have recruited well for position and not just looked for a "good player", developed our players to be able to backup/server an apprenticeship.

    Gaps show up and can be filled ala Everitt, but on the whole we have a well balanced list that I believe will be thereabouts for at least the next 3 or 4 years
    Staying ahead of the game...

  7. #19
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    As it seems that alot of players currently on the list wont be there post 2009 i think the club over the next 2-3 years will recruit and further develop players to avoid ''bottoming out''. The fact is sydney can never, if they can help it, have a poor year because of the fickle market they are in. Also, as much as their core supporter numbers have increased the fact is if they were having a poor year (like essendon this year for eg.) there would be plenty of empty seats at the SCG and the club knows that.

  8. #20
    Taking Refuge!! NMWBloods's Avatar
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    Originally posted by hammo
    Personally I doubt Vogels or Grundy will develop into a key player of the influence of a Hall, but in Goodes we already have an elite player who could be very damaging on the lead or playing tall in the mould of a Lynch.
    I don't think Goodes has ever shown he can play in a key position role.
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  9. #21
    RWOs Black Sheep AnnieH's Avatar
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    Originally posted by NMWBloods
    I don't think Goodes has ever shown he can play in a key position role.
    That's cause he can play all 18 positions with ease ... at the same time!!
    Wild speculation, unsubstantiated rumours, silly jokes and opposition delight in another's failures is what makes an internet forum fun.
    Blessed are the cracked for they are the ones who let in the light.

  10. #22
    WARNING! WARNING!..........ALIENS APPROACHING!!

    Take a look at the bottom 4 teams on this year's ladder and tell me what you see. Then tell me who played in the Grand Final's of 1999, 2000, 2001. Also, a team that only played in the GF 2 years ago finished 12th this year.

    Fact is chappies, the AFL system is designed to give all clubs an equal opportunity at success. You will see teams fluctuating up and down the ladder in a short span of time. That's life in a manufactured system that feeds you and then strangles you when the turkey has been fattened up.

  11. #23
    RWOs Black Sheep AnnieH's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Chow-Chicker
    WARNING! WARNING!..........ALIENS APPROACHING!!

    Take a look at the bottom 4 teams on this year's ladder and tell me what you see. Then tell me who played in the Grand Final's of 1999, 2000, 2001. Also, a team that only played in the GF 2 years ago finished 12th this year.

    Fact is chappies, the AFL system is designed to give all clubs an equal opportunity at success. You will see teams fluctuating up and down the ladder in a short span of time. That's life in a manufactured system that feeds you and then strangles you when the turkey has been fattened up.
    Do you have to remind us that our time is coming??? Everyone's been ignoring that fact.
    We're being fat turkeys today!!
    I hope to God it NEVER EVER gets as bad as 26 losing games in a row!!
    Wild speculation, unsubstantiated rumours, silly jokes and opposition delight in another's failures is what makes an internet forum fun.
    Blessed are the cracked for they are the ones who let in the light.

  12. #24
    Originally posted by NMWBloods
    I don't think Goodes has ever shown he can play in a key position role.
    But before long he'll be a 200 game player and with that maturity and experience I believe he'll be a far better KPP.
    "As everyone knows our style of football is defensive and unattractive, and as such I have completely forgotten how to mark or kick over the years" - Brett Kirk

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