At least 1 change needed...so who?

[Matt79]

OK, swap ROK and Mal around for a change. ROK is creative and can deliever the ball inside our forward 50 effectively and play MAL on the half forward line.

[liz]

I don't think there has been any tangible difference this year between where ROK and Malceski have been playing, except for maybe where they start at centre bounces. They both work right up the ground and if anything, Malceski has been going forward more than ROK.

[DeadlyAkkuret]

OK, swap ROK and Mal around for a change. ROK is creative and can deliever the ball inside our forward 50 effectively and play MAL on the half forward line.

I can't agree with this. Malceski has to stay where he is, along with Kennelly, they're two of the rare members of the team that know how to play their role, week in, week out. If changes are made, we should be focussing on areas that need fixing.

[ernie koala]

Dempster Looked great running to the F50 and banging a goal from there. I'd like to see that more often.

Yeah, he's got talent to burn...He's quite quick, skillful and a good size, which is why he should be influencing more contests.

[Triple B]

Yeah, he's got talent to burn...He's quite quick, skillful and a good size....

But in the other thread you wanted him dropped.

[ernie koala]

But in the other thread you wanted him dropped.

No.....I said he needed to lift his work rate and influence more contests. Same as the bit I wrote in my last post, that you edited out in your response

[DST]

I am convinced that we now play our best football on bigger grounds where we can control the stoppages, break hard and isolate our forwards in one on one contests.

For years we had a team and game style that was suited to the SCG but sadly was never going to allow us to win a final on the MCG/AAMI/Subi/Telstra Stadium or the GABBA when meeting quality opposition.

We are now totally opposite to that and as a result the SCG is not the same fortress it used to be.

DST

[Nico]

Dare I ask the learned people who watch the two's the following:

But firstly to prempt my question.

My 2 pet whipping boys are Bevan(worst player getting an AFL game) and J Bolton closely followed by McVeigh.

Bevan was played as an everywhre man lat night and proved to be a nowhere man. He is slow, cant kick, cant read the play, falls over etc (tries hard). So if he is useless everywhere then a player like Schmidt who can read the play, kick a goal, kick accurately with distance and is probably yards faster would improve the bottom line of team quality.

J bolton is a snail, is always second to the ball, cant kick more than 20 metres with a Butch (gale) behind him, has no defensive skills and purely and simply is there to create a stoppage by falling on the pill.

Mcveigh, inept is probably the best word to describe him and suffers from a combination ailments of the above 2 duffers.

Q. Would someone please tell me if the skills/attributes of Brabazon, Thornton, Moore, Laidlaw are equal to if not better than the 3 drop kicks mentioned above. If any 2 of pace, kicking skills and clean possession are seen as better, then can anyone make a case for these people adding value to our line up as against the afforementioned.

Liz you are eligible to make comments but please dont sit on the fence on this one. It is a very serious question paramount to our future.

By the way the look on Roos's face last night was a new one and hopefully he is losing patience with some players and can see the light finally.

[liz]

It's really hard to answer your questions re the youngsters Nico because they generally play against witches hats. And I think Roos' selection history indicates that he places more store by the few games they get in the pre-season playing against senior AFL players than by how they go in the reserves competition.

That said, plenty of youngsters come in to the senior competition and hold their own quite quickly. Although a lot of our kids are low draft selections or rookie picks, there's no inherent reason why they should struggle if given real opportunities at senior level.

That said, I don't think any of them are going to come in and make an immediate difference in terms of winning a premiership this year. It is more a case of whether they can get some senior experience into them while remaining a real challenger, if that's what the coaching staff believes the team currently is.

As for individuals, I think Schmidt definitely has what it takes. And he was decent earlier in the year when he did get his chance. He's not going to add any pace to the midfield but if you look at centre bounce clearance specialists like Mitchell and Harris (Roos), that isn't an issue if you can get your hand on the ball. His disposal skills are spectacular ala the Eski but they look sound and his decision making looks good too. He'll make mistakes early at senior level but that's what he needs the time for.

Brabazon I am not sold on still. He had a great few weeks recently in the reserves - though not so much this week and last - but I'm not convinced. Even if he eventually makes it, I think he'd be seriously out of his depth at the moment.

(Caveat - I stated a few times early last year that I thought Grundy would struggle translating his reserves form to senior level and he showed me I was way off. So I don't claim to be an expert on spotting what it takes to make it. I did call Schneider though, early in his first year on the list, based mostly on just watching him train a few times.)

I like Laidlaw though he's a bit inconsistent within matches. And I'm not sure where he would fit in the current team since his attributes suggest he should be playing a similar role to Malceski, Kennelly, Dempster, O'Keefe, even Davis if he played the role further up the ground that I think he could. I don't think his form over the last two matches has been special, though earlier in the year he was blitzing things. I don't think it would hurt to throw him in there and see whether he's ready yet or not. He could play a mid-sized forward role - ala Matty Nicks - and is very good overhead.

Thornton has improved tremendously since last year and his last month has been very good - though he was a bit quieter yesterday. He's probably shaping up to be a tall wingman, maybe like a Matt Rosa, though in the reserves everyone just goes forwards and kicks goals. I'd have Laidlaw slightly ahead of him at this stage but he's coming along nicely. Laidlaw is a bit quicker and possibly a longer kick. He's also better overhead for his height, though Thornton's marking has definitely improved and he's a bit rangier than Laidlaw. He may not quite have the strength / bulk yet for senior football, but that doesn't seem to prevent the likes of Rosa or some of those skinny Collingwood kids from being thrown into the fray.

I have no doubt Moore could make a contribution if he was given a real chance but he needs to be thrown into the thick of things and given an extended run. His problem is possibly that he's a clone of Buchanan in style - though his kicking looks better. I think he needs to do what Malceski did in 2005/ early 2006 and play a couple of absolute blinders so that he can't be not picked. But thus far he's looked pretty laconic and/or bored playing reserves footy - and he probably is bored.

[Nico]

Thanks Liz. So on what you are saying is that until these players get an extended run of games and decent game time nobody will know.

We are an interesting mob aren't we. There appears to be no pressure on the players in the 1's to hold their spot and no real desire to throw younger players into the mix. The last club to do that was Brisbane and they are really struggling.

WCE and Adelaide through necessity have been able to introduce new players to their top 22 and really make blokes such as Fletcher play for their spots eg. Priddus is a real find.

I despair that when the crunch comes we will be left with a group of inexperienced players. They keep saying they have to do the things to keep us at the top because Sydney people are fickle but I cant see it. Maybe they have a plan of developing a group of tough bodyed players who will burst on the scene when required.

I would love to hear what the club's philosophy on all this is.

A salient comment was made by of all people Robert Walls today that we dont know what Paul Roos is made of until he has had a long losing streak and the wheels appear to be falling off.

[liz]

WCE and Adelaide through necessity have been able to introduce new players to their top 22 and really make blokes such as Fletcher play for their spots eg. Priddus is a real find.

They have. But they have a big advantage of their reserves playing against men, semi-professional players at that, and hence can gauge where they're at in football terms.

A salient comment was made by of all people Robert Walls today that we dont know what Paul Roos is made of until he has had a long losing streak and the wheels appear to be falling off.

I think that is true of most leaders. You don't know how good they are until things get tough.

[DST]

Thanks Liz, for us Melbourne based members who don't get the chance to see the ressies we need quality info like this.

I take it from your thoughts that wholesale changes are unlikely because the players most likely in the reserves are probably similar type players that are playing well in the seniors

* Kennelly, Malceski, Dempster for Laidlaw and Thornton
* Buchanen for Schmidt or Moore

While I am advocate for Bevan in very limited situations, this week against the pace of the Hawks we desperately need some run so hopefully Crouch is back this week.

As for other changes, McVeigh I think needs a run in the seconds for a couple of weeks. Laidlaw would seem a good replacement for him re his pace and running capacity but from your comments and that from the coaching staff he lacks the mental toughness to hold down a run with role at this stage.

Watching the Hawks today we are going to need some real pace and running capacity this week. And we would kill for LRT as well.

DST