Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 25 to 36 of 68

Thread: What changes are needed to go from also rans to a contender?

  1. #25
    recruit me pretty please! Cosmic Wizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Stanmore
    Posts
    608
    Quote Originally Posted by Bas View Post
    That's assumimg we are still in the top eight come finals time.

    I'm not so sure.

    True, our run home is mostly against top eight sides.

    First two test against the Magies and Hawk show we are lacking.

    Like last year, we can make the finals, but we are not by any means a GF contender.
    doof-doof

  2. #26
    Commentary Team Captain BeeEmmAre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Nor-West Jets Football Club
    Posts
    2,509
    How quickly they turn.
    "It's up to the rest of the players in the room to make a new batch of premiership players next year," Adam Goodes, triple Bob Skilton Medallist, October 7, 2011.

    YOU BETCHA!!!!!!

  3. #27
    The voice of reason! DST's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Content to meet my maker!
    Posts
    2,705
    Quote Originally Posted by NMWBloods View Post
    But it still depends on the opponent and we haven't beaten anyone but WC away since '05, and we were a better side in finals in '05 and '06.
    Agree we were a better side back then no doubt, but we do have a recent history of winning finals away from home which is as good as anyone else over the last 10 years.

    The 7 to 5 ratio just goes to show how bloody hard they are to win, let alone trying to do that over the course of a 5 year stint.

    I thought a couple of weeks ago, we were on the cusp of one last real shake at a GF and maybe a win. That looks unlikely now, but I would still like us to see out the year to the best of our ability and see off a number of older players with a fitting finale by winning a final at home in the second week. If we don't progess past the PF, then by all means we turn over 6 or 7 older players and give the newbies a red hot go for next year.

    DST
    "Looking forward to a rebuilt, new, fast and exciting Swans model in 2010"


  4. #28
    Veterans List
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    11,125
    Bevan and Moore to centre bounces with instructions to be first to the ball. No defensive crap, win the clearances and give our forwards a chance of not being flooded and first use of the ball. Throw in forward pressure and game on.

  5. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by BeeEmmAre View Post
    How quickly they turn.
    Totally agree

  6. #30
    Carpe Noctem CureTheSane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Knoxfield, Victoria
    Posts
    5,032
    Having made the post I did, I have to say that I'd love to go and see my team play knowing that they would play exciting football.

    You tend to know that when we watch the Swans play we're going to get the same thing week in week out.
    Even when we're 100 points up, there's no flamboyancy, or trying anything different.

    I'm not complaining, we won a flag playing like we do.
    And you have to respect Roos for sticking to his guns, it sure as hell must be tempting to change things up when it looks like all hope is lost.
    He brings results, but he creates a frustrating style of play - hence his ups and downs with supporters.

    I'd tip that unless we finish in a semi or better, the game plan might just change a bit next year.
    The difference between insanity and genius is measured only in success.

  7. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by BeeEmmAre View Post
    How quickly they turn.
    We haven't gone close to beating a top team all year, don't you think some changes are needed?
    "As everyone knows our style of football is defensive and unattractive, and as such I have completely forgotten how to mark or kick over the years" - Brett Kirk

  8. #32
    Veterans List DeadlyAkkuret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    4,547
    Quote Originally Posted by BeeEmmAre View Post
    How quickly they turn.
    What does that even mean? We're supposed to have our heads in the clouds as our team serves up this crap each weekend?

  9. #33
    Sir Ashmole Gruntbucket hot potato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    beecroft
    Posts
    1,122
    Stop stufffing around with that psycho dude, who i've never heard of before.
    FFS how the hell is he going to know when BATS IN THE BELFREY BIG BAD BUSTLING BARRY HALL has beaten his habit, it is a sheer impossibility.
    Even my mother in law reckons she would have done exactly what he did with all the niggling.
    He's serving no useful purpose up country with a friend.
    He's no longer suspended, bring him back for the Blues game immediately. Every single other team in the comp would.
    It's a bloody joke, and I'm grumpy. and ready to deck someone.

  10. #34
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    7,800
    its all nice and well to say we need a wholesale change in our gameplan, but do we really have the personnel to be able to make the change? Our younger blokes no doubt in the medium term I believe can be led along that sort of path, but the older blokes especially really do know only one style of footy. I think the game plan is somewhat now redudant, but I dont think it is completely broken. It no doubt now is a burden against the better teams, and in the medium-long term I definetly want to see us change the way we play (Which no doubt will happen, as all teams go through different phases), but in the short term I want to see us have maybe one last shot at a real tilt for the flag, and I dont think wholesale changes will help us at all.

    I am simplifying it greatly but there are four things that imo need to change desperately and I reckon we would look a different team, even though we could conceivably (Except for point 2) stick to a fairly similar gameplan.

    1) Get the boys revved up before the game (Not at 3/4 time when we are 40 points down) so that they hit the ground running. Right through this great period for our club, we have so often let teams get away from us only to fall short at the death. Id be very interested to see the stats over the last 3 or 4 years (say 2005 to now) on how many games we have lost when we have led at say 1/4 time. Id be very suprised if we werent somewhere up around 65-70% of these matches won. For we are a good leading team. We have been good at creating pressure and holding onto the lead, but not good at chasing teams down (The great exception to this imo apart from Davis in 05 was the Saints prelim in 05).

    2) Take a leaf out of the book of Geelong and also now the dogs and the Hawks and play on (As a lot have been saying) at all costs. It is the way footy works best in the current situation and rule setup. We may not be good enough for it, but we can look mighty dangerous when we do it and can pour on a lot of points very quickly. The lack of trying this really bugs me, because I know we can do it well- as we have seen in patches of games when we have to throw the floodgates open to do it to try and chase the game down. And when you consider we have the backline to do it imo- Malceski, Mattner and Kennelly (Fitness problems aside for the moment) are three damaging players running out, Leo Barry always is willing to take players on and still does alright more times then not, and Richards and Bolton also are not at all bad distributors and runners of the ball. We could do it imo and make a success of it. But for this to work with our current gameplan we need the following, imo most important point.

    3) RUN HARDER AND WORK HARDER! We simply dont run hard enough to create leads, and far too many of our players (especially bringing the ball back in) are far too stationary. Whereas in 05 our skills were fantastic and we could take almost every mark on a lead of only 1 or 2 metres on an opponent, now we make many mistakes. The way to combat this though is to work far harder round the ground and get on real leads. Watch Geelong especially and so many players get on leads where they are 5 metres minimum away from their opponents and have run 50 or even 100 metres to create space. If you work hard and run hard, even if you stuff up there is a fair chance you can get the ball. Now I fully acknowledge we probably dont have the leg speed in most players to do what Geelong can, but its not to say we cant still imitate them quite well. We simply dont work hard enough, and with the slower tempo 3 years ago and better skills we got away with it, but now we are getting shown up as teams like the Pies simply shut down our midfield and our precision game does not work. Its a myth imo that our gameplan of precision passing is incompatible with playing on quickly- if we worked hard enough around the ground (And granted moved the ball quicker after taking marks) then we could still successfully use a precision sort of game.

    4) Learn to KICK STRAIGHT. We have so often been wasteful in front of goals. I dont care if they have to be up to midnight every night for 2 weeks, get them out there practicing set shots and on the run attempts time and time again until every player who is every up forward can kick say a minimum of 4 out of every 5 on a fairly regular basis. For while we have been comprehensively outplayed by the Hawks and the Pies, especially against the pies if we had of kicked straight we could of still had a shot when we got our roll on in the last quarter. The outstanding example of this this year was the Dogs against us. We dominated most of the match, but they barely missed a goal all day and not only kept themselves well and truly in a contest they should have lost but won it fairly comfortably in the end.

    It all sounds so simple when I read it back to myself what I just typed and I know it is not, but I really feel a decent improvement in these 4 sort of areas could make a huge difference. We could still base our gameplan on tight controlled footy, but if we looked to take them on when we have the ball we could conceivably cause a lot of teams problems. For even though there are teams that have our measure now (Especially the pies), it is more down to the fact that we dont go out to take teams on enough, when we have the potential to do it very well. For I think the Pies now just think "Ah well block up the middle zone with lots of players, crowd their space and theyll soon enough @@@@@@ up and turn it over and we'll smash em on the counter attack." If we go out from the first bell and try to, not even necessarily all the time just sometimes try to take them on and move it quickly, I think you put a seed of doubt in their minds and that is when you can unsettle their game plan, and make them play into our hands.

    Thats my very elongated view of it all. A new gameplan will have to happen in the long run, but a few changes all of which I think we are capable of and we could yet give it one last big shake for now.

  11. #35
    Sir Ashmole Gruntbucket hot potato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    beecroft
    Posts
    1,122
    Quote Originally Posted by mcs View Post
    its all nice and well to say we need a wholesale change in our gameplan, but do we really have the personnel to be able to make the change? Our younger blokes no doubt in the medium term I believe can be led along that sort of path, but the older blokes especially really do know only one style of footy. I think the game plan is somewhat now redudant, but I dont think it is completely broken. It no doubt now is a burden against the better teams, and in the medium-long term I definetly want to see us change the way we play (Which no doubt will happen, as all teams go through different phases), but in the short term I want to see us have maybe one last shot at a real tilt for the flag, and I dont think wholesale changes will help us at all.

    I am simplifying it greatly but there are four things that imo need to change desperately and I reckon we would look a different team, even though we could conceivably (Except for point 2) stick to a fairly similar gameplan.

    1) Get the boys revved up before the game (Not at 3/4 time when we are 40 points down) so that they hit the ground running. Right through this great period for our club, we have so often let teams get away from us only to fall short at the death. Id be very interested to see the stats over the last 3 or 4 years (say 2005 to now) on how many games we have lost when we have led at say 1/4 time. Id be very suprised if we werent somewhere up around 65-70% of these matches won. For we are a good leading team. We have been good at creating pressure and holding onto the lead, but not good at chasing teams down (The great exception to this imo apart from Davis in 05 was the Saints prelim in 05).

    2) Take a leaf out of the book of Geelong and also now the dogs and the Hawks and play on (As a lot have been saying) at all costs. It is the way footy works best in the current situation and rule setup. We may not be good enough for it, but we can look mighty dangerous when we do it and can pour on a lot of points very quickly. The lack of trying this really bugs me, because I know we can do it well- as we have seen in patches of games when we have to throw the floodgates open to do it to try and chase the game down. And when you consider we have the backline to do it imo- Malceski, Mattner and Kennelly (Fitness problems aside for the moment) are three damaging players running out, Leo Barry always is willing to take players on and still does alright more times then not, and Richards and Bolton also are not at all bad distributors and runners of the ball. We could do it imo and make a success of it. But for this to work with our current gameplan we need the following, imo most important point.

    3) RUN HARDER AND WORK HARDER! We simply dont run hard enough to create leads, and far too many of our players (especially bringing the ball back in) are far too stationary. Whereas in 05 our skills were fantastic and we could take almost every mark on a lead of only 1 or 2 metres on an opponent, now we make many mistakes. The way to combat this though is to work far harder round the ground and get on real leads. Watch Geelong especially and so many players get on leads where they are 5 metres minimum away from their opponents and have run 50 or even 100 metres to create space. If you work hard and run hard, even if you stuff up there is a fair chance you can get the ball. Now I fully acknowledge we probably dont have the leg speed in most players to do what Geelong can, but its not to say we cant still imitate them quite well. We simply dont work hard enough, and with the slower tempo 3 years ago and better skills we got away with it, but now we are getting shown up as teams like the Pies simply shut down our midfield and our precision game does not work. Its a myth imo that our gameplan of precision passing is incompatible with playing on quickly- if we worked hard enough around the ground (And granted moved the ball quicker after taking marks) then we could still successfully use a precision sort of game.

    4) Learn to KICK STRAIGHT. We have so often been wasteful in front of goals. I dont care if they have to be up to midnight every night for 2 weeks, get them out there practicing set shots and on the run attempts time and time again until every player who is every up forward can kick say a minimum of 4 out of every 5 on a fairly regular basis. For while we have been comprehensively outplayed by the Hawks and the Pies, especially against the pies if we had of kicked straight we could of still had a shot when we got our roll on in the last quarter. The outstanding example of this this year was the Dogs against us. We dominated most of the match, but they barely missed a goal all day and not only kept themselves well and truly in a contest they should have lost but won it fairly comfortably in the end.

    It all sounds so simple when I read it back to myself what I just typed and I know it is not, but I really feel a decent improvement in these 4 sort of areas could make a huge difference. We could still base our gameplan on tight controlled footy, but if we looked to take them on when we have the ball we could conceivably cause a lot of teams problems. For even though there are teams that have our measure now (Especially the pies), it is more down to the fact that we dont go out to take teams on enough, when we have the potential to do it very well. For I think the Pies now just think "Ah well block up the middle zone with lots of players, crowd their space and theyll soon enough @@@@@@ up and turn it over and we'll smash em on the counter attack." If we go out from the first bell and try to, not even necessarily all the time just sometimes try to take them on and move it quickly, I think you put a seed of doubt in their minds and that is when you can unsettle their game plan, and make them play into our hands.

    Thats my very elongated view of it all. A new gameplan will have to happen in the long run, but a few changes all of which I think we are capable of and we could yet give it one last big shake for now.
    Well constructed Vossy, sounds good to me.

  12. #36
    Salt future's rising SimonH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Gala Mill
    Posts
    1,647
    I couldn't be bothered responding to all of your thoughtful points mcs (although I think you're generally on the money), but on point 3:

    Kirk proved again on the weekend what an absolutely unbelievable asset to the team he is in this respect. He just presents and presents and presents to provide an option where no-one else is doing so. Honourable mentions in that respect go to ROK and Goodes.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO