Leo and Crouch must retire

[Bear]

They should both be there because they both still have good service to offer for at least another year.

It will be important that their bodies hold together though.

Given Leo was still a key runner/link from defence last year, he,Tadgh, etc suffered from the fact we had a slow midfield that was often shut down man on man and offering less and less clear options to kick to.

Tadgh was running circles at times and getting into trouble. Leo has a different apoproach and takes them on more. Looks a little more risky but you can't just slam it on the boot 60s style anymore. You have to try and retain possession.

It's a little more complicated than "Leo gets caught more often".

[chammond]

Given Leo was still a key runner/link from defence last year, he,Tadhg, etc suffered from the fact we had a slow midfield that was often shut down man on man and offering less and less clear options to kick to.

Tadhg was running circles at times and getting into trouble. Leo has a different apoproach and takes them on more. Looks a little more risky but you can't just slam it on the boot 60s style anymore. You have to try and retain possession.

It's a little more complicated than "Leo gets caught more often".

Crikey, a reasoned opinion . . . are you sure you've got the right forum?

When assessing experienced players like Leo, you have to consider the whole package. He certainly makes more errors than most other quality defenders, but he also has more possessions and more marks than most, and he's the king of rebounds from deep in defence.

When Leo retires, we'll certainly give away less defensive free kicks, but we'll also have fewer defensive marks, and we'll find it much harder to rebound from the back line of defence.

[Triple B]

Given Leo was still a key runner/link from defence last year, he,Tadhg, etc suffered from the fact we had a slow midfield that was often shut down man on man and offering less and less clear options to kick to.

This is where we missed Fosdike most in 2008.

He is easily our best in finding space on a wing and giving the backmen a get out clause when coming out of defence.

[Bear]

Crikey, a reasoned opinion . . . are you sure you've got the right forum?

Don't encourage me, I don't get many compliments here

[Darren Thomson]

I don't think Leo or Crouch need to do anything except what they want to do. I fthey believe thay can contribute then lets have at it. Too many people quick to criticize players who have given great service to the club and offer more than just on field performance, even though we all want to win games, I don't see these guys as being in the way of doing that so why don't the naysayers take a deep breath, and hold it, forever!!!!!!!!

[robamiee]

When Leo retires, we'll certainly give away less defensive free kicks, but we'll also have fewer defensive marks, and we'll find it much harder to rebound from the back line of defence.

which is exactly what we dont need anymore, as much as i like Leo, our frees that we give away in our defensive 50, especially early in games is what cost us alot this year.
Its bad enough the umpires murder us in the frees, let alone the players...
Its those free kicks that keep sides in the game, especially when the forwards aren't converting.

Unfortunately the game has passed leo, unless he used differently, why not stick on the half forward line, as he generally converts his kicks when he gets them on goal.

[Alison]

Does anyone have any stats on frees for our backline? I thought Leo did not give away too many - although a lot of them were a bit dodgy anyway.

[gossipcom]

Jolly followed by Leo gave the most Free Kicks against this year. Though Leo played less games, so his average is slightly higher than Jolly and Mattner. No guesses as to who had the second highest average and he played less games than Leo.

RedAndWhiteOnline.com Messageboard

[dimelb]

Jolly followed by Leo gave the most Free Kicks against this year. Though Leo played less games, so his average is slightly higher than Jolly and Mattner. No guesses as to who had the second highest average and he played less games than Leo.

RedAndWhiteOnline.com Messageboard

The startling thing about that table is that Leo was our most efficient disposer of the ball!

[Bear]

Unfortunately the game has passed leo, unless he used differently, why not stick on the half forward line, as he generally converts his kicks when he gets them on goal.

no it hasn't. far from it. when he was back fully fit he had a very good final series

in an overall sense, we are way undersized in the backline and he still plays a key role. naturally as he takes on more responsibility than most, he will give away free kicks battling bigger/taller guys. it's just common sense, but you don't throw in ... ummm... Brendan Murphy??? or someone else??? to do the all-round hard jobs Leo has done with distincion over 7-8 years unless they are good enough.