Divisional Structure - Your early impressions

[Tom Wills]

The highlights (memories) of our football careers are not the number of wins, but the close games we have played in. The games where you win (or loose) by under a goal. NSW AFL needs to understand this simple concept and restructure now!
Kids do not want to see Camden, Woolongong or East Coast third team getting belted.
While it might sound a bit amatuerish restructure now so that the rest of the year is competitive football that attracts and retains players and supporters (kids).
Look forward to your comments from the average player and those apparently in the "know".

[Norris Lurker]

There's some truth in that, but the same teams that are getting belted this year were getting belted under last year's structure.

There will always be fluctuations from one year to the next in how many teams some clubs are able to field and how strong those teams are. Using Tom's teams as examples, Wollongong in Premier Division aren't subject to promotion & relegation, East Coast Eagles didn't have a thirds last year and Camden finished ahead of Penrith and NorWest last year so deserved the right to test themselves in Second Division.
Using last year's form to determine which divisions each team should be in will never be the perfect indicator - but over a couple of years it should work to produce not as many lopsided games. But I can't see how any form of mid-season restructure as Tom was calling for would work. Are you suggesting some form of pre-season grading carnival like they did a few years ago to determine who was in the Under 18s Premier and Challenge competitions?

[Hawknik]

Totally agree Norris. They have restructured! Give it a chance to let the dust settle.

On ECE, they had the opportunity to put their 3rd side in the league below, but obviously fancied themselves a grade higher. One would guess they underestimated the old SFA strength and went one or two grades too high. And that is ok, next year they can choose to go at it again and strengthen their side OR request to be in the grade below.

Camden chose to stay in that league and felt it best for them as a Club, good on them. They too may re-evaluate for 2010 - then again, the decision may be made for them should they come last and have automatic relegation.

It was always said that it would take 1-2 years to work itself out. The team that is getting smashed each week, if they finish last, will drop down a grade, and the team that wins the comp will move up. In a year or 2 it will be settled somewhat. Keep in mind this is the first year the old SFL and SFA have been able to see how they play against each other and will give the League and the Clubs a good indicator of where the sides should be placed in 2010.

[Sometimes]

On ECE, they had the opportunity to put their 3rd side in the league below, but obviously fancied themselves a grade higher. One would guess they underestimated the old SFA strength and went one or two grades too high. And that is ok, next year they can choose to go at it again and strengthen their side OR request to be in the grade below.

Another influence on this may have been the structure of the alliance with NorWest i.e. Jets playing in 3rd and 4th div, ECE 3rds filling the gap in 2nd div.

[tara]

Another influence on this may have been the structure of the alliance with NorWest i.e. Jets playing in 3rd and 4th div, ECE 3rds filling the gap in 2nd div.

I dont see how that would have stregthened the alliance but your right it would have been a bit of a conflict.

[Hawknik]

Tara, Sometinmes point makes total sense as teh Alliance would not have wanted a Jets team playing against a ECE team hence they had to put one of the sides in Div 3.
Fair point.

[tara]

Tara, Sometinmes point makes total sense as teh Alliance would not have wanted a Jets team playing against a ECE team hence they had to put one of the sides in Div 3.
Fair point.

My point is there is more to it than that - Ask yourself this question - With East Coast introducing a new team how many players will now filter through to Norwest? Wasnt the point of an alliance to bolster both clubs ie the better players encouraged to play prem div whilst those older players and those not at the right standard encouraged to play with Norwest?

[Tom Wills]

Why do we have to wait a "couple of seasons" to fix a blatant problem with the strucutre. Sydney AFL should be congratulated on the courage to introduce the new divisions, and should be equally brave and restructure now for a great comp for the rest of the year. Forget all the crap about Premier clubs being exempt from relegation; in Vic amatuers some of the most successful clubs in the history of the amatuers have had to deal with relegation.

Over the few years I have played against and watched teams in Premier, 1st Division and 2nd Division, anyone who thinks UTS (definitely) and Manly (probably) would not hold their own in Premier league is not watching the same games.

To take the discussion to the next level here are my first 3 divisions.
Premier
1 EAST COAST EAGLES
2 WESTERN SUBURBS
3 UNSW/ES
4 PENNANT HILLS
5 CAMPBELLTOWN
6 NORTH SHORE
7 ST GEORGE
8 SYDNEY UNIVERSITY
9 UTS
10 MANLY-WARRINGAH

Div 1
1 BALMAIN DOCKERS
2 WOLLONGONG
3 MANLY-WARRINGAH
4 UNSW/ES
5 PENNANT HILLS
6 NORTH SHORE
7 EAST COAST EAGLES
8 MACQUARIE UNIVERSITY
9 SOUTHERN POWER
10 UTS

Div 2
1 WESTERN SUBURBS
2 WOLLONGONG
3 ST GEORGE
4 HOLROYD-PARRAMATTA
5 SYDNEY UNIVERSITY
6 BALMAIN DOCKERS
7 EAST COAST EAGLES
8 UNSW/ES
9 NOR-WEST
10 UTS

[Tom Wills]

I have also thought about the bottom 2 divisions - being
Div 3
1 CAMDEN
2 CAMPBELLTOWN
3 MACQUARIE UNIVERSITY
4 PENNANT HILLS
5 PENRITH
6 MOOREBANK SPORTS
7 SOUTHERN POWER
8 SYDNEY UNIVERSITY
9 UTS
10 HOLROYD-PARRAMATTA

Div 4
1 NOR-WEST
2 MACQUARIE UNIVERSITY
3 MANLY-WARRINGAH
4 UNSW/ES
5 HOLROYD-PARRAMATTA
6 PENRITH
7 MOOREBANK SPORTS
8 CAMDEN

I would appreciate feedback of why this would not work now, not in 2 or 3 years time.

[Norris Lurker]

I can't see how teams switching divisions mid-season could possibly work.

If UTS and Manly were to go up this week while Balmain and Wollongong went down, how would the ladders for those divisions be calculated? Would UTS's points and percentage go up to Premier Division with them, automatically making them top of the league? Or would they take over Balmain's 4 points and lesser percentage? Or would it be done on match ratio over the remaining rounds? And if on match ratio, would that be fair on a team like Wests who have already had good wins against Balmain and Wollongong to have those results annulled from their match ratio and percentage?

[Tom Wills]

Norris, think of the big picture.

How good would a game this weekend be with UTS vs. Syndey Uni or Manly vs. North Shore in Premier. And what about Mac Uni vs. East Coast or Penno in Div 1.....now that would be interesting.

To answer the devil in the detail the season would effectly start again this weekend. Each team would enter the new comp with no win or losses or percentage... and yes the draw would not be even for the rest of the year, but if the AFL can cope with an uneven draw we can.

[BeeEmmAre]

Norris, think of the big picture.

How good would a game this weekend be with UTS vs. Syndey Uni or Manly vs. North Shore in Premier. And what about Mac Uni vs. East Coast or Penno in Div 1.....now that would be interesting.

To answer the devil in the detail the season would effectly start again this weekend. Each team would enter the new comp with no win or losses or percentage... and yes the draw would not be even for the rest of the year, but if the AFL can cope with an uneven draw we can.

I can't see how you would find more than one or two clubs (if that) that would agree to cancel the first five rounds of the season just past.