Bottom 2 teams in Sydney AFL Div.1 relegated?

[The Duck]

I still do not think those people involved in clubs outside the premier league understand where we are comming from. The premier league should be made up of the top 10 clubs in Sydney football. To complete in Premier League these clubs should contain a senior team, a reserve grade team and an under 18 side. If the likes of UTS fit this criteria then they should be promoted. I still do not understand why Manly and UTS are playing against Premier League Reserve Grade teams. Under what has been mentioned on here previously (Promotion of stronger sides), what happens if East Coast, Pennant Hills or Easts third grade sides have great years. Do they go into Division One and play against the same clubs reserve grade teams. This compeition panders to the weak too often and is opening up itself to become a joke. I see nothing wrong with sides like Manly and UTS becomming strong enough, both on and off the field to be apart of Premier League, but until then, stay in of Division 2!

[Noods]

Shearer, the two "promoted" sides, UTS and Manly, are clearly the best sides in Div One, they haven't lost to any of the Premier Reserves sides.
As you point out Mac Uni And Southern Power were not as strong against those sides, but were certainly a lot closer than some of the clubs now at the bottom of Div One.
The point remains the initiative will mean sides in the same divisions will be more evenly matched.
Certainly Balmain and Cmpbelltown are evidence the sides at the bottom of last years Premier League reserves are a fair way behind the better sides in the old Div One Seniors.
I can understand your concern with St George as they are traditionally very strong through the grades and appear to be having one poor season in the reserves.
However, a promotion/relegation system based on merit rather reputation, in my opinion is preferable.
Perhaps as Tara suggests some discretion may be exercised by the league but the subjectivity makes for controversy.
The Amatuer competitions in the footballing states use a promotion/relegation system sucessfully, I would say Sydney football is more closely aligned to that system than the State League system.

[Norris Lurker]

what happens if East Coast, Pennant Hills or Easts third grade sides have great years. Do they go into Division One and play against the same clubs reserve grade teams.

I think they've already ruled that no club can have 2 teams in the same division.

[tara]

I think they've already ruled that no club can have 2 teams in the same division.

No need to think Norris they have made that a firm ruling.

[shearer]

Up to a few years ago there was a very strict criteria for sides to play in what is now called the Premier Division.

It was a must that you had an u/18's side and it was widely acknowledged that there were to many teams in a close radius to each other in the CBD. If a team was to be promoted then a team from Western Sydney was to be promoted.

But a change of staff at headquarters and all of a sudden Sydney Uni came back into Premier Division without an 18's.And now its all over the shop.

BUT getting back to the first post on this thread, we have always known from the start of the year that our ressies if they finished last they will be relegated. To change the goal posts half way through the year and then say 2 teams will drop down is a joke, if it is true.

[BeeEmmAre]

To change the goal posts half way through the year and then say 2 teams will drop down is a joke, if it is true.

I did say don't hold me to that, Dalts, as I wasn't sure.
I don't disagree with there being one promotion/relegation each year, in fact it's probably better.
But as some have said on here, we do have to look at the big picture, and that is there are five grades in Sydney, not one or two, and I know I'd much rather be involved in a grade where my team can be competitive than one where we're going to get smashed.
We can't compete with UTS and MW seniors, we know that, but we're certainly striving to get to where we want to be, which at this stage is 2/3. We weren't good enough there in the past two years, and whether we'll be good enough to get back there at the end of this year remains to be seen.

What we aren't doing is complaining about what may or may not happen and crying against an administration that is doing everything in its power at the moment to create five even grades of football.

[Henry]

The Amatuer competitions in the footballing states use a promotion/relegation system sucessfully, I would say Sydney football is more closely aligned to that system than the State League system.

I won't comment on other states but I know in the VAFA promotion/relegation is based solely on the performance of the senior team within a club (ie. if the seniors come 9th or 10th, the whole club goes down, regardless of where the ressies finished on the ladder - and the opposite if the seniors make the grand final). People were well used to the system and accepted it. The fact there is far greater depth across the divisions down there probably eased the fear of relegation.

[The Duck]

I agree with the point that Henry has raised. I have no issues with clubs being promoted or relegated. The issue I have with is spreading teams from within clubs into different divisions. The VAFA is a model that could work in the Sydney AFL. Under a structure like this, UTS and Manly can really strive to be apart of Premier League. We need to strengthen up all the clubs in the lower divisions so that they can strive to eventually reach Premier League. I know people associated with clubs in the lower leagues think we are taking pot shots, but all we want is the strongest possibe structure we can have to strengthen Sydney football.

[No Idea]

Henry I agree with you. Relegation should be based on how first grade go. Apart from those that played in lower grade grand finals (No disrespect when I say this) and won, who would remember the results. I'm sure if you follow Sydney Premier Division closely enough you would be able to name the premiers for the past 5 - 10 years in the Senior comp. Football Club success is measured on the success of first grade and first grade only. If UTS and Manly are strong enough then promote their first grade upto the premier league and their reserve grade upto division 1 and make it 12 sides and give finishing 5th more merit. If the league want's to mess with the lower grades then let them, but re-instate all reserves along the premier league club in div 1 and promote the two stand out team, Manly and UTS to premier division and move on. Why do we need a relegation system anyway. Outside of the premier league clubs and obviously Manly and UTS what other clubs could compete at the highest level in the Sydney league. ZIPO. ZILCH. NONE.

[Coastal Boy]

Henry and No Idea has hit the nail on the head here. Club relegation makes more sense than team relegation. The issue I have is when a clubs 2s are playing in 3rd or 4th division and the effect this has on their first grade performance.

For anyone still wanting to push the point that the old SFA was so strong compared to SFL 2s citing Manly and UTS results this year in 1st division, explain why UTS 2s are up the top of a division their 1s played in last year? Does this indicate that the old SFA was actually weak .... Or is in fact UTS much stronger as a club all round this year as are Manly?

[Tom Wills]

Where do I start with the problems of your positions? The team vs. club relegation system is the way to go!

1. To compare Sydney Football to the VAFA is ludicrous! Victoria not only has 8 divisions (of 2 teams) in Amateurs plus VFL, EFL, EDFL, NFL etc etc etc. 100's of team to create even games.

2. As we all know Sydney footy is dominated by Ex-pat AFL players who are invariable young and live close to the CBD. Hence clubs like UTS have 150 players on their books and amazing depth. The further from the CBD the more "local" Sydney players and less depth.

3. We need comps where every week is a chance of a close game, with only 50 plus teams in our in Comp we need to do everything possible to create "close" games.

[DLH]

Where do I start with the problems of your positions? The team vs. club relegation system is the way to go!

1. To compare Sydney Football to the VAFA is ludicrous! Victoria not only has 8 divisions (of 2 teams) in Amateurs plus VFL, EFL, EDFL, NFL etc etc etc. 100's of team to create even games.

2. As we all know Sydney footy is dominated by Ex-pat AFL players who are invariable young and live close to the CBD. Hence clubs like UTS have 150 players on their books and amazing depth. The further from the CBD the more "local" Sydney players and less depth.

3. We need comps where every week is a chance of a close game, with only 50 plus teams in our in Comp we need to do everything possible to create "close" games.

Spot on Tom.

Anything which encourages more competitive games is a good thing, and will only help participation rates in senior footy, especially for clubs on the outskirts who find numbers and playing depth a problem for the reasons you've outlined through no fault of their own.