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Thread: A discussion on drafting

  1. #1

    A discussion on drafting

    Some trivia on the 2006 super draft: Who are the only two players taken in the top 50 not to have yet played a senior game of AFL football?

    Answer: Daniel O'Keefe and Daniel Currie (both Sydney Swans)

    http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/f...r=2006&t=N&s=P

    I am not picking on O?Keefe and Currie and hope both can become good players for us, but it is instructive. The fact we only used two picks in the top 50 in that draft and neither have debuted sums up some of the problems we currently have in developing young players to replace the Halls, Kirks and Barrys.

    Roos' drafting philosophy until very recently has been that outside the first round, the draft is a crap shoot. Roos bucked the AFL trend on this (almost the only one) by saying bottoming out had never been proven to win a premiership. He relied instead on his research of US sports with an emphasis away from the draft. With Hawthorn now having 'proved' the theory, Roos now appears to be backing away from his own theory at a hundred miles an hour. I interpret his post-Collingwood remarks about lack of class as an admission you need to rebuild via the draft, not via trading and rookie list elevations as the Swans have attempted to do. Let's hope it's not 3 years too late.

    This isn't intended to be anti-Roos thread, but I want to contrast our recent drafting efforts with Adelaide, who we play this week. In 2005-06 the Crows and Swans had a similar list profiles and both clubs were inside their 'premiership window'. Of course, the Swans did win a flag and narrowly missed another (had we played Adelaide in those finals series we may not have achieved this given our record against them) while Adelaide missed out and began the rebuild. The Swans in contrast have tried to prolong their current run of finals appearances by trading away draft picks for the likes of Everitt, Mattner and Shaw and forgoing draft picks to elevate rookies (Brennan, Phillips, Simpkin).

    Adelaide is now regarded as having one of the most exciting young lists in the AFL (three rising star noms already this year) while generally it?s accepted the Swans will struggle for a few years with little exciting talent coming through. Like us, Adelaide has not had access to a raft of early picks.

    Two of the Crows? rising star nominations were taken with second round picks ? exactly the picks the Swans have willingly traded away in recent years to snare ready-made players. The Crows took Andy Otten at pick 27 in 2007 and Kurt Tippett at pick 32 in 2006. Both play positions the Swans desperately need: a key defender and key forward / ruck. This is only a cursory look at the Crows, I am sure there are similar stories at other clubs.

    The Swans? spend more on the football department than any other club in the AFL. How much of this is spent on recruiting? Clearly not enough. The draft is only a crap shoot if you don?t do your research.

    It?s worth having a discussion as the club begins to seriously looks at our playing list beyond 2009. My fear is that the 2006-08 drafts will go down lost years for youth development with not enough picks being taken.

    There is a place for rookies, but they can?t be relied upon to develop a list. For every rookie elevated, the club forgoes a draft pick. Players who are not regarded as being in the top 50 or 60 in the country as a teenager will rarely develop into the top class players you need to build a premiership team around.
    "As everyone knows our style of football is defensive and unattractive, and as such I have completely forgotten how to mark or kick over the years" - Brett Kirk

  2. #2
    I'm just not that certain we've done that badly

    For my part I think the disappointments have not really been with our (to use a perjorative phrase) top-ups.

    And i don't think you can necessarily say that we did poorly from our higher draft picks pre roos - goodes, o'keefe

    I do think we have been a little unlucky as well - our high draft picks have come in average years - mcveigh, jude, fosdike and ferguson were all better than average players but none are chris judd or buddy franklin. But for example if you compare jude with lenny hayes i don't reckon we did worse for our pick than what we might have.

    I think Bolton, Mattner, Schauble, Williams etc have all been excellent trades. I have reasonable expectations from Shaw. The only complete stuff up was the trade for chambers.

    From other trades I think Spriggs was a fraction unlucky. I reckon brennan was not quite there but didn't cost much.

    Overall we have been ok in trading and recruitment since roos came - we haven't unearthed any goodes or o'keefe's as late picks - but not too many other clubs have as well.

  3. #3
    Formerly 'BBB' Triple B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melbournehammer View Post
    I do think we have been a little unlucky as well - our high draft picks have come in average years - mcveigh, jude, fosdike and ferguson were all better than average players
    Careful, Big Brother is watching all mistakes.
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    pr. dim-melb; m not f
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    I think the jury's still out on the talent coming through. DOK, Currie, Pyke, Murphy, Johnston, Schmidt, Laidlaw, Veszpremi, Smith, Hannebery, Thornton have all given indications that there may well be as yet unrealised potential. As for Bird, White and Jack, they are already above average to good, and in Bird's case may turn out to be great - though I don't want to put the mockers on the young fella. I'll watch the development with interest.
    Last edited by dimelb; 23rd June 2009 at 04:36 PM. Reason: sp.
    He reminds him of the guys, close-set, slow, and never rattled, who were play-makers on the team. (John Updike, seeing Josh Kennedy in a crystal ball)

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    On the Rookie List Jewels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimelb View Post
    I think the jury's still out on the talent coming through. DOK, Currie, Pyke, Murphy, Johnston, Schmidt, Laidlaw, Veszpremi, Smith, Hanneberry, Thornton have all given indications that there may well be as yet unrealised potential. As for Bird, White and Jack, they are already above average to good, and in Bird's case may turn out to be great - though I don't want to put the mockers on the young fella. I'll watch the development with interest.
    Now, now, now, no positive posts.
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    Senior Player Plugger46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimelb View Post
    I think the jury's still out on the talent coming through. DOK, Currie, Pyke, Murphy, Johnston, Schmidt, Laidlaw, Veszpremi, Smith, Hannebery, Thornton have all given indications that there may well be as yet unrealised potential. As for Bird, White and Jack, they are already above average to good, and in Bird's case may turn out to be great - though I don't want to put the mockers on the young fella. I'll watch the development with interest.
    My thoughts exactly.
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    Senior Player ernie koala's Avatar
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    I agree with Hammo's general sentiments. I'm not saying the players we have drafted from 06-08 are duds, it's too early to tell...but we should of started off loading some older players and drafted more youngsters, instead of hanging on to all the older players, off loading two 24 year olds in Schnieds and Dempster and then adding players like Playfair and Everitt in particular..both had a long history of injury problems, Everitt was close to retirement and Playfair was an ordinary player at best.
    As I keep harping on, we are now faced with 6-7 imminent retirements coinciding with severely compromised drafts. Poor planning from a footy department with more resources than any other club.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect... MT

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    Senior Player Doctor J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernie koala View Post
    I agree with Hammo's general sentiments. I'm not saying the players we have drafted from 06-08 are duds, it's too early to tell...but we should of started off loading some older players and drafted more youngsters, instead of hanging on to all the older players, off loading two 24 year olds in Schnieds and Dempster and then adding players like Playfair and Everitt in particular..both had a long history of injury problems, Everitt was close to retirement and Playfair was an ordinary player at best.
    As I keep harping on, we are now faced with 6-7 imminent retirements coinciding with severely compromised drafts. Poor planning from a footy department with more resources than any other club.
    You make it sound like we dumped Schneids & Demptser and picked up Playfair & Everitt.

    If Schneids & Dempster were not traded we wouldn't have Meredith. I see a much greater future in Meredith than both the aforementioned, and I was the driver of the Sean Dempster bandwagon.

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    Senior Player Doctor J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melbournehammer View Post
    I do think we have been a little unlucky as well - our high draft picks have come in average years - mcveigh, jude, fosdike and ferguson were all better than average players but none are chris judd or buddy franklin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple B View Post
    Careful, Big Brother is watching all mistakes.
    I did wonder who tf ferguson was!! thanks for completing the picture Triple

  10. #10
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    Jolly and Ball were pretty handy trades too. Just wait a couple of years for that spine of ??, Murphy, Hanneberry, Johnston, ??
    Those who have the greatest power to hurt us are those we love.

  11. #11
    Veterans List Bas's Avatar
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    Good thread Hammo.

    The dorks and saints have shown the importance of the fall down the ladder. In a few years Carlton will be doing same.

    Father son also helped Geelong better than any rookie listing.

    Geelong had much the same list for years before it fired. As did the Dorks and even longer for the Saints.

    Many say we won in 2005 with an ordinary list.

    I think our most significant acquisitations had been Roos and Plugger as players. Didn't win us a premiership but did win the Swans lots of fans and media attention.

    Micky O was a third round pick and Goodes was up there as well.

    So I think apart from a few stuff ups, our recruiters have done well. They covered the loss of Plugger, Roos, Kelly, Schwass, Dunkley and our man Luffy to win a premiership in only 3 years or so. Have they held onto the current aged players too long?.

    Micky has done the honourable thing but I think Crouch and L Barry have to do same. Perhaps even Capt Kirk has slowed too much.

    We can't tank any lower than 5th last because the teams below us are worse off at the moment.
    In memory of my little Staffy - Dicey, 17.06.2005 to 1.12.2011- I'll miss you mate.

  12. #12
    McVeigh for Brownlow Site Admin RogueSwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melbournehammer View Post
    ... I reckon brennan was not quite there but didn't cost much.
    Except holding back another youngster??
    "Fortunately, this is the internet, so knowing nothing is no obstacle to having an opinion!." Beerman 18-07-2017

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