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Thread: Overrating our club

  1. #1

    Overrating our club

    I fear there has been an overreaction to yesterday's game. We were beaten by a goal in a contest which pre game I felt neither side would kick more than 10 goals. The conditions were genuinely a leveling influence.

    The truth is straight kicking would have won the match for us.

    The performance was pretty well consistent with all of our performances this year. We rely very heavily on a really committed effort and a disciplined defence. our forward thrusts are punctuated more by good fortune than by good management but we are not the only side without a genuine goal kicker or a structured forward line. I think there is no reason to criticize the efforts of anyone who played last night. The criticism of white everitt and jetta is all way over the top. True each of them made errors but they all buttered up again.

    Lots of players Made errors during the game - LRT played on Tippett who took half as many contested marks as our whole team, tadgh turned the ball over, goodes missed handballs, rok made critical errors -the list goes on. There's no point overdoing it - it was not a night likely to lead to good footy.

    Overall though the issue comes back in my mind to how we are going to kick 14 goals each game. And maybe this is the point. We all got a bit ahead of ourselves at the end of last season by running the dogs close. We could so easily have lost the week before and been out in week one.

    And there was a period around the Richmond and Melbourne games where it was pretTy likely we weren't going to make the eight at all - and that was off a similar performance the previous year where we always around the mark but fell away at the end of the season.

    Maybe we are about where we should be - in the middle of the pack with an all right list but nothing particularly special but a good culture at the club - one which doesn't lie down easily

  2. #2
    agree with most comments

    Our control of most games is still top6 standard..........our pressure structures and ability to choke the game and hence limited goals scored against is still of fair standard !

    OUr attack is still struggling which is actually natural with what we have upfront compared to other top5 teams !

    note: Ive always said to myself I suffer from being to close to the information of only the one team......... and my mind becomes so swan centric !!

    with the sharing on this site, swans site and all the media I am just filled with Swans Mania !

    so it hurts more on the bad days and it feels better on the good days and there aint much in between being a Swans supporter
    "be tough, only when it gets tough"


  3. #3
    Veterans List Big Al's Avatar
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    Terrific posts MH and AG.

    After a bad loss there is always lots of venting. I would be concerned about the passion of the fan base if there wasn't. I still believe in this club and believe that we have the right ingredients to be a power house in a few seasons. There will be some pain along the way of course but supporting this great club is always a roller coaster and I wouldn't have it any other way.

    (Still if TDL isn't selected this week then the gloves a off )
    ..And the Swans are the Premiers...The Ultimate Team...The Ultimate Warriors. They have overcome the highly fancied Hawks in brilliant style. Sydney the 2012 Premiers - Gerard Whately ABC

    Here it is Again! - Huddo SEN

  4. #4
    Interesting read that and got me thinking - Whilst stats are not everything - out of interest I did some comparisons on how team rate in terms of registering score board pressure compared to tackle count.

    Pretty much back up the point you make Melbournehammer.

    Interesting to note that teams since 2008 to win flags have done so by kicking goals and a stat that sticks out is the teams that average the most goals win flags. Eg
    1. 2008 - Hawks averaged 17 goals per game (gpg)
    2. 2009 - Geelong averaged 15 gpg
    3. 2010 - Collingwood averaged 15 gpg
    4. 2011 Geelong av = 15 gpg and Collingwood average 17 gpg.
    5. In 2011 Sydney average 11.4 goals per game which is rated 14th when compared to all teams.

    Tackle count in these years by comparison
    1. 2008 Hawks rated 13th on tackles per game.
    2. 2009 Geelong rated 6th on tackle count.
    3. 2010 Collingwood rated 1st on tackle count ...... but
    4. 2011 Collingwood rate 5th and Geelong rate 14th.
    5. 2011 Sydney are the number 1 ranked tackle team (81 per game) followed by Carlton, Freo and St Kilda.

    To me - whilst tackle count and pressure is a vital part of the game - it seems more statistically obvious that flags are won in modern day football by regularly posting 15 plus goals on the score board per game.

    Question for me is when do we begin creating a set up that allows us to compete on the scoreboard - top teams are certainly focused in this area.

  5. #5
    Senior Player Bleed Red Blood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney V View Post
    To me - whilst tackle count and pressure is a vital part of the game - it seems more statistically obvious that flags are won in modern day football by regularly posting 15 plus goals on the score board per game.

    Question for me is when do we begin creating a set up that allows us to compete on the scoreboard - top teams are certainly focused in this area.
    Yep completely agree.

    I think we have weak depth because one of Roos' core beliefs was the 'serving of an apprenticeship' in the reserves, I don't know where to find such a stat but I reckon the 'number of players to play in the afl' per team list we would be in the bottom five over all of Roos' later years. He simply didn't create depth, by playing players through injurys that would otherwise create opportunites for other players.

  6. #6
    Senior Player Bloody Hell's Avatar
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    Yeah...we need a forward line.
    The eternal connundrum "what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object" was finally solved when David Hasselhoff punched himself in the face.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bleed Red Blood View Post
    Yep completely agree.

    I think we have weak depth because one of Roos' core beliefs was the 'serving of an apprenticeship' in the reserves, I don't know where to find such a stat but I reckon the 'number of players to play in the afl' per team list we would be in the bottom five over all of Roos' later years. He simply didn't create depth, by playing players through injurys that would otherwise create opportunites for other players.
    Who specifically do you think we have currently running around in our reserves who's ability to come in and make an impact is due to Roos not giving them enough earlier games? I am really struggling to think of anyone who's physical readiness was evident last year or the couple of years before and who didn't get a go.

    I also don't really think depth is our major issue. I suspect we could bring in 4 or 5 players from our reserves who could competently do the job that the 5 or so least productive current encumbants in the senior team are doing. I don't think they would necessarily do it better - ie that they are unfairly being denied a game - but I think they could play. Our biggest issue at the moment is that we have a very thin level of cream at the top when you compare to teams like Geelong, Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon.

  8. #8
    Veterans List aardvark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    Our biggest issue at the moment is that we have a very thin level of cream at the top when you compare to teams like Geelong, Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon.
    So how do we fix that ?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
    So how do we fix that ?
    Bottom out for five years straight. The AFL doesnt reward consistency , they reward mediocraty.

    You cant fix talent levels.

    At the end of the day Swans improve their kicking accuracy which is a mental thing and they win more of these close games and they are almost top four. It hasnt helped that they have struck wet conditions in at least two or three games this year and that coupled with woeful kicking accuracy has been the difference between contending for top four and struggling to make the eight.

    Our inability to put teams away when we have had absolute ascendency is really hurting us when those teams get back into the game as we are ten points rather than 30 points in front.

    We need goal kickers now and I would suggest that we need them in preference to good tacklers who may create forward pressure but which is all a bit useless when they then turn that pressure into fourteen straight behinds.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    Who specifically do you think we have currently running around in our reserves who's ability to come in and make an impact is due to Roos not giving them enough earlier games? I am really struggling to think of anyone who's physical readiness was evident last year or the couple of years before and who didn't get a go.

    I also don't really think depth is our major issue. I suspect we could bring in 4 or 5 players from our reserves who could competently do the job that the 5 or so least productive current encumbants in the senior team are doing. I don't think they would necessarily do it better - ie that they are unfairly being denied a game - but I think they could play. Our biggest issue at the moment is that we have a very thin level of cream at the top when you compare to teams like Geelong, Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon.
    Thats precisely the point i reckon. I think we have great depth. That is to say there is scarcely a position on the field that we couldn't bring in another player from the reserves and we might get a similar performance. Lose a jetta - i reckon meredith could do a job. Tall defender ? Ted Grundy LRT AJ are all about the same standard. HBF - where do you begin - tadgh, mal, shaw, mattner. lose an inside midfielder we have parker. Lose a tall forward - white, johnson, everitt can all do a very similar job. small forward moore and tdl can come in.

    I think the cream question is the critical one and invariably brings forward the question of whether you can get cream when you finish 5-10 regularly or not ?

    fwiw I put myself into the category of wanting to win every game and never ever do i want to see us play for draft picks. But I'd really be much happier if we could actually look like we could win against some of those very top sides occasionally. The truth is hawthorn carlton and collingwood (even allowing for our great comeback) always seemed to have our measure reasonably comfortably.

    it is difficult to see what else can be got out of this side short of some tactical revolution. They play as hard as they possibly can (which is part of the reason why i think jetta, everitt and white get maligned to the degree they do - none of them jump out as hard at it players) and compete to the greatest extent possible. but the absence of cream is clear and its going to get worse as goodes disappears.

  11. #11
    Veterans List wolftone57's Avatar
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    I think we have some cream coming up in Jetta (when he gets used to playing at this level), Rohan, TDL, Sumner (going great guns in resies).

    Lamb=Clever & going to be a player
    LJ=Best kick at the club & can take the big marks
    Spanger=A lot of people doubted the veracity of picking this bloke up but I saw him in a few games & whenb he could be god aweful he could also be downright brilliant & tear a side apart. Remember the side he was playing in, pretty aweful & now greatguns, he has the killer instinct
    Sumner=Always liked this pick as he is very quick, very highly rated in Adelaide & is proving very good in the ressies
    Lamb=Extremely clever, would like to see a lot more of him, unfortunately injured
    Haren=Very Good at FF in the Resies, unfortunately injured for much of the season, still learning the game
    Al assures us McCague is learning & coming on very well, not that the ball gets to fullback very often in the ressies.

    That is the point!The ball doesn't get into our backline very often & that tells me there is real talent in the ressies. We traded very well in the last 3 years of Roosies rule & picked up some early draft picks & therefore we got what most clubs have to bottom to do (very Sheedy cluey of Roos).

    Our young mids & forwards are ace & all we have to do is play them in the A's

    Our young defenders are learning & getting better all the time & will be great back up by next year.

    We have a potentially great young ruckman in Currie. HARD & TOUGH

    Our Acadamy players are coming along very nicely young fellas like Murphy etc

    We are on track & all we need is a new game plan to match all this talent as we can't continue to play this totally negative footy with this bunch as they are much too talented & it would be a waste.

  12. #12
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    I find it hard to get too excited by our talent currently in reserves when they are often playing against sub-standard opposition many weeks. In fact I would be really concerned if they didn't look like stars of the future playing in that comp.

    I think we'll need to trade really aggressively in the off-season for a proven goal kicking forward. Its something we really need. A fast and smooth experienced midfielder would be nice too but every team would say that.

    I think for the rest of this year we need some goalkickers in the team - hence I think Jesse is worth persisting with, but keep him up forward and stop messing around with this idea that he should also ruck. I also think its important that TDL is brought back in to provide another threat up forward and to be a good foil to Jesse. I also think ROK should be spending more time up forward - I don't think he is doing his best work in the midfield at the moment....

    I think we can still be a force to be reckoned with come finals time and will concern whoever we come up against. We wont make the top 4, and still have some work to do to make the 8, so I think the next few weeks will prove the making of the season for us. We have a few games coming up that we should win so I sure hope we've learned a few lessons in the last few weeks. And as others have said, some more goals would be nice...

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