Big Bad Barry

[SwansFan1972]

The problem I have is she has made a mountain out of a molehill. Hall and Roos have both categorically stated that there is no rift, no hard feelings. Hall said he feels more like a Bulldog, well OF COURSE he feels more like a Bulldog! He IS one! After he has retired, he will probably feel differently, but he was just saying what is appropriate. It would have been a shocking look for him to say, "Nah, my heart's still with the good ol' Swannies" days before he goes out and plays us!

What's more sickening is her portrayal of the Swans as some sort of charity that Hall took advantage of and ditched, which gave Hall a thousand chances before finally giving up, and finally, for having a no dickheads policy (that is the biggest load of tripe I've ever heard). Hall threw some punches on the field. He copped what he deserved from the MRP. That's it. The only reason Hall left the Swans was because he couldn't be trusted to perform. It wasn't an issue of morality, it was an issue of him still being a reliable player on the field (as opposed to a perennially suspended one).

The fact is, Hall has been nothing but a gentleman about the Swans since he has left. He has been frank about feeling let down by Roos on an interpersonal level, and Roos has stuck his hand up and admitted he didn't handle it well. Journos have since taken any statement that Hall has made about being happy with the Bulldogs and painted it out as a backhanded swipe at the Swans, which is plain ridiculous. How would we feel if Rhyce Shaw kept talking about the good old days at Collingwood? If Shane Mumford said he was still a Cat at heart? Or Josh Kennedy wanted to be back at the Hawks?

The entire Hall saga was messy and undesirable for everybody involved (except the Dogs), but it was handled as well as can be by all parties, with minimal fuss. The media are squeezing it for every bit of juice it has got, and it's pathetic.

I guess a lot of it is perception, but to me, it seemed that Hally went out of his way to make it clear he is a dog for life. Was that neccessary in the circumstances? Of course his loyalties are curently to the bulldogs (would expect no less), but would it really have hurt him to say 'sure, the premiership was a highlight and he'll never forget it'? That he was at pains to leave all reference to it out indicates that he still harbours bitterness, even with all the public 'i'm fine with him, he's fine with me' namby pamby stuff. The forthcoming book will sure make interesting reading!

As for comparing the situation to Mummy, Shaw or Kennedy - well, as comparisons go, that is real apples and oranges stuff. I doubt anyone could point to many similarities in the circumstances under which each was moved on from their clubs (along with pretty much all the other trades that take place in the AFL). The only comparable situation I can recall in recent seasons is Fevola. In both of these unique cases, neither club really wanted to part with the player, but ultimately the price of keeping them became too high.

Hall was moved on because he couldn't be trusted to keep his hands to himself - if that is what is regarded as his ability to perform. He was damaging the club's reputation, as well as its onfield performance by being a loose cannon and ultimately proving too big a distraction for his presence to be beneficial. Whose fault is that, by the way? He has only half put his hand up for it, and he has had swipes at Roos - a bit like a naughty child who knows deep down it has done wrong, but still wants to blame mum or dad a bit.

There is no doubt - absolutely none - that if Hall had been able to control himself on-field (like nearly every other footballer in the competition), he would have finished his career at the Swans. Maybe he just didn't want to admit he wanted out and so forced the hands of those who ultimately had to fire him? Who would know? Either way, responsibility is clearly not something he fronts up to as fully as he would have people believe.

And memories are short - he had issues when he left St Kilda and he also some early indications after coming to Sydney that managing him was not going to be as easy as it would be for most other footballers. His agression on field was so much of what made him great as a player, but clearly he lost sight of where the line was and ultimately crossed it too many times. Did this create headaches for his club? You bet it did.

Granted, he controlled himself for a large part of his time at the Swans and will be forever remembered, but he was not peter perfect, and if a journo wants to call him out on a few things - especially in a week when it has been all puff pieces, sycophancy and warm and fuzzy romance on his life as a dog - then that is closer to balance than pathetic in my book. And you'd hope Baz would be the first to say it is all water of a duck's back anyway.

Throwing all this around is good fun though and we will all have differing feelings on the enigma that is BBBH, who will always hold a special place as one of only four (so far!) of our beloved club's premiership captains. Good luck to him post footy - hopefully he has a happy retirement and can eventually look back over his whole career (rather than just the last two years) and feel satisfied and fulfilled.

[Jewels]

Saying I am "Holier than thou" and "on a soap box", (an extraordinary irony noting this website is ALL ABOUT people on soap boxes via an internet website!), represents personal mudthrowing. It is attacking the person not the ball

NOT ONCE, NOT ONE SINGLE TIME have I made judgmental, personal and nasty attacks against individuals who have contributed to this particular thread. Not once have a got down to the mud and been "personal" it were, simply because I do not agree with one's comments.

Once this debate gets personal and nasty, it becomes an unnessary exercise for everyone!

Interesting take on things. You labelled a group of Swans fans as childish and not true Swans supporters. That seems pretty personal to me but you justify it because you didn't name individuals. You can't expect people not to come back at you when you question the veracity of their support for the Swans. I for example can't on this forum say that people from Town X are all boguns without expecting all the Town X people return fire. I can't hide behind the fact that I didn't name any individuals.

Thank you Al, your response is far more reasoned and polite then any that I could muster.

I'm getting tired of this lie continually being dished up. The captains after Maxfield in 2005 were Brett Kirk, Leo Barry and Barry Hall. Yes, in the rotation for stability they decided Baz would continue to do the captains duties throughout the whole finals series. But he was only 1/3 of the Swans Premiership captains. Brett and Leo have as much right as Baz to that title and as far as know both of them are still quite well and living.

And neither of them let us down as badly as Barry did. Few have. Or had such a long run of bad playing. 2004-06 Baz kicked 74, 80 and 78 (though notably none in the 2006 GF). In 2007 he kicked 44 and in 2008 he kicked 41. Sure he spent a lot of that time suspended but you must remember the distinct lack of confidence we all felt when he ran in to kick on goal.

His dismissal of the Swans this week deserves boos even if he wasn't playing for another team. It certainly diminishes him. Personally I enjoyed him walking off the SCG yesterday a loser with his new loser best mates. It was nice to see Tadhg and LRT go over to him but the rest rightly regarded him as an irrelevance.

I'll take bets we won't be happy when his book comes out. He's already showed his petulance. And anyone who saw the honour with which he was treated at the Swans 2008 B&F will know that, like so many breakups, it's him not us.

Very well put GS

[goswannie14]

Nice tee off and very professional name calling - but am interested in what you find so objectionable about what she wrote.

BSA5 pretty much sums it up here. But I have always felt like this about Wilson, and her brother is just as full of crap as she is. One of the many reasons why I don't watch Sunrise any more.

The problem I have is she has made a mountain out of a molehill. Hall and Roos have both categorically stated that there is no rift, no hard feelings. Hall said he feels more like a Bulldog, well OF COURSE he feels more like a Bulldog! He IS one! After he has retired, he will probably feel differently, but he was just saying what is appropriate. It would have been a shocking look for him to say, "Nah, my heart's still with the good ol' Swannies" days before he goes out and plays us!

What's more sickening is her portrayal of the Swans as some sort of charity that Hall took advantage of and ditched, which gave Hall a thousand chances before finally giving up, and finally, for having a no dickheads policy (that is the biggest load of tripe I've ever heard). Hall threw some punches on the field. He copped what he deserved from the MRP. That's it. The only reason Hall left the Swans was because he couldn't be trusted to perform. It wasn't an issue of morality, it was an issue of him still being a reliable player on the field (as opposed to a perennially suspended one).

The fact is, Hall has been nothing but a gentleman about the Swans since he has left. He has been frank about feeling let down by Roos on an interpersonal level, and Roos has stuck his hand up and admitted he didn't handle it well. Journos have since taken any statement that Hall has made about being happy with the Bulldogs and painted it out as a backhanded swipe at the Swans, which is plain ridiculous. How would we feel if Rhyce Shaw kept talking about the good old days at Collingwood? If Shane Mumford said he was still a Cat at heart? Or Josh Kennedy wanted to be back at the Hawks?

The entire Hall saga was messy and undesirable for everybody involved (except the Dogs), but it was handled as well as can be by all parties, with minimal fuss. The media are squeezing it for every bit of juice it has got, and it's pathetic.

It's certainly an opinionated piece. I thought the illustration (by Boo Baily ) was amusing:

Yes, I quite like that illustration.

[GoSouth33]

BBBBHall was good for us, and we were good for him. He gave us the media coverage, albeit for his mis-deeds as well as his good deeds. Lots of NRL people I know could name a few Sydney Swans players. BBBBHall was always one of them. I spoke to Primmy during the game and she said that she was over him. Fair enough. I told her we'd be clapping him off the ground at the end of the game which we did. There were a few others that raced over towards the Bulldogs race at the end of the game. There were no boos as he walked through the race only cheers. He didn't acknowledge anyone and the whole Bulldogs team was quite dejected as they left. Season over for them by the looks of things.
Immediately after the full time siren Tadhg went to him and there was an embrace. Others joined in but not all. ROK, Eski, Shawy, Macca, Teddy, Stewie, Josh and Sam were there.
I think what he said at the Press conference catered to his current employer. I'm sure in time when he assesses his whole career his views will mellow. Impossible to think he'll be so dismissive of the time he was a Swan.

[SwansFan1972]

BSA5 pretty much sums it up here. But I have always felt like this about Wilson, and her brother is just as full of crap as she is. One of the many reasons why I don't watch Sunrise any more.

I'd hope the others include because of Mel and Kochie! Look up the dictionary for 'dumbed down television' and they will be grinning out at you!

[Bas]

It becomes really painful to listen to a person (many over the years) tell other people how to behave as a supporter. Gems from the past-

Your'ne not a real supporter if:
1. You have missed a home game since 1933;
2. You weren't one of the loyal ones in 1982-84;
3. you boo past players;
4. You leave the game early when the Swans are getting flogged;
5. Half a dozen players don't know you by your first name......etc etc etc

Top 40, if I have to read your opinion one more time then I'll "to quote Ron Barassi" throw up!

What gives you the right to tell other people what to do? Everyone supports the Swans in THEIR OWN WAY AS THEY SEE FIT.

I didn't boo Hall yesterday. I sort of cringed when he got the ball the first time and others did. Quite frankly I couldn't care less if people booed or not. Freedom of choice.

The Swans sacked him because of what HE had done. Otherwise he would have retired a Swan. I support what a number have already said about captains that year. He was lucky to do something that Plugger, Ablett, Kelly etc never did but were far more worthy to do.

He's a dumb man Barry. Either that or he has listened to dumb advice. He's trying to flog a book he hasn't released yet then he goes out to say a dumb thing last week.

There is not going to be many Saints or Swans fans buying it. Certainly secured sales to Bulldogs fans but that's about it. History will remember him as a Swan then Saint.

He got 5 yesterday, didn't acknowledge either Swans fans or the mob behind the goal posts. Tada, back to Footscray!

True Swans supporters know who they are and follow the Swans the way that feels best to them.

PS - My best thread response was Erica's. The man did her wrong and he can mosey off into the sunset!

[Bas]

I'd hope the others include because of Mel and Kochie! Look up the dictionary for 'dumbed down television' and they will be grinning out at you!

Don't get me started on that ambulance chaser. If I put the telly on in the morning, I have it on Diagnosis Murder. Give me Dick Van Dyke any day.

[longmile]

Personally im quite glad he's gone. His final years for us werent the best, and if he stayed, nothing would of changed.
All he did was flap his arms about in anger and cause destruction and disarray in our forward line without the help of the opposition.

[SwansFan1972]

It becomes really painful to listen to a person (many over the years) tell other people how to behave as a supporter. Gems from the past-

Your'ne not a real supporter if:
1. You have missed a home game since 1933;
2. You weren't one of the loyal ones in 1982-84;
3. you boo past players;
4. You leave the game early when the Swans are getting flogged;
5. Half a dozen players don't know you by your first name......etc etc etc

Top 40, if I have to read your opinion one more time then I'll "to quote Ron Barassi" throw up!

What gives you the right to tell other people what to do? Everyone supports the Swans in THEIR OWN WAY AS THEY SEE FIT.

I didn't boo Hall yesterday. I sort of cringed when he got the ball the first time and others did. Quite frankly I couldn't care less if people booed or not. Freedom of choice.

The Swans sacked him because of what HE had done. Otherwise he would have retired a Swan. I support what a number have already said about captains that year. He was lucky to do something that Plugger, Ablett, Kelly etc never did but were far more worthy to do.

He's a dumb man Barry. Either that or he has listened to dumb advice. He's trying to flog a book he hasn't released yet then he goes out to say a dumb thing last week.

There is not going to be many Saints or Swans fans buying it. Certainly secured sales to Bulldogs fans but that's about it. History will remember him as a Swan then Saint.

He got 5 yesterday, didn't acknowledge either Swans fans or the mob behind the goal posts. Tada, back to Footscray!

True Swans supporters know who they are and follow the Swans the way that feels best to them.

PS - My best thread response was Erica's. The man did her wrong and he can mosey off into the sunset!

should be good to shift around 37 copies - if all of them buy one. Not quite enough to go into re-print, and will be on the remaindered shelves pretty quickly (if there are any bookstores left to stock it).

Ditto re: Erica's comment. He walked away, not us.

[jono2707]

Saying I am "Holier than thou" and "on a soap box", (an extraordinary irony noting this website is ALL ABOUT people on soap boxes via an internet website!), represents personal mudthrowing. It is attacking the person not the ball

NOT ONCE, NOT ONE SINGLE TIME have I made judgmental, personal and nasty attacks against individuals who have contributed to this particular thread. Not once have a got down to the mud and been "personal" it were, simply because I do not agree with one's comments.

Once this debate gets personal and nasty, it becomes an unnessary exercise for everyone!

I took the "you're not a true supporter..." line rather personally - it's like a red rag to a bull to me and I get disappointed and offended when that judgement is passed on a forum such as this....

I had fun booing Bazza, although I respect him and am eternally grateful that he was one player who helped us to the 2005 victory. I wasn't spiteful or nasty and I warmly applauded him after the game. I also think it's a pretty good stance to not boo at the footy and I greatly respect those who chose not to. I guess it just shows that we Swannies supporters are a broad church.

Can I continue to boo Darren Jolly? I don't want to open a can of worms or anything but I don't have any time for him whatsoever after he left us for that awful black and white mob...

[AnnieH]

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[longmile]

Can I continue to boo Darren Jolly? I don't want to open a can of worms or anything but I don't have any time for him whatsoever after he left us for that awful black and white mob...

You're not allowed to stop.