The Draft - Victims of our own success

[sharp9]

Any mention of Collingwood and Geelong and their great drafting against the odds needs to include T. Cloke, N. Davis, J. Cloke, C. Cloke, H. Shaw, R. Shaw, B. Shaw, J. Barham - M. Scarlett, M. Blake, T. Callan, N. Ablett, A. Donohue, T. Hawkins and G. Ablett under the "here you go have a giant present for nothing" fruit of the loin basket. Of course we did get Donkey Doyle - who could have been something. :-) And the Smooch who is a premiership player. And Benny Mathews and Leo were zone selections way back when.

[Melbournehammer]

Any mention of Collingwood and Geelong and their great drafting against the odds needs to include T. Cloke, N. Davis, J. Cloke, C. Cloke, H. Shaw, R. Shaw, B. Shaw, J. Barham - M. Scarlett, M. Blake, T. Callan, N. Ablett, A. Donohue, T. Hawkins and G. Ablett under the "here you go have a giant present for nothing" fruit of the loin basket. Of course we did get Donkey Doyle - who could have been something. :-) And the Smooch who is a premiership player. And Benny Mathews and Leo were zone selections way back when.

and sean dempster...

[wolftone57]

A few of the interesting things to come from these stats is that;
Collingwood and Geelong are both also down the bottom end of number of picks...they're going OK at the minute.
Where as Richmond and Melbourne have had plenty of picks.....they're not going OK and appear years away from being contenders.
So I suppose it's who you pick not how many, how they fit your club and your playing style, who's already on your list etc etc...
So it's all a bit murky unless you hit the jackpot like Collingwood did with picks 2 and 5.

Having said that, I think the mantra that the Swans can't afford to bottom out is rubbish....Just look at our dwindling attendances, and read these boards.
Finishing in and around the 8 year after year, with no relative progress, excites very few...Except perhaps coaches who keep their jobs.
In Sydney, and I suspect most other markets,success is not measured by just making the finals...It's about being a contender.... that's what gets people interested and excited, and ultimately bums on seats and high memberships.
There is nothing better than watching your team claw their way from oblivion to become a contender......Ala 1995 onwards, 2003 onwards. That's how you catch the imagination of supporters, Sydney included.

Collingwood had 10 top 20 draft picks but ended up with 6 top 10 & that is pretty good as well as father/son picks in Cloke & Shaw. They also traded with us for Darren Jolly who has been sensational for them as he was for us. Their footy department know their stuff. I agree that we can't just keep making the eight year after year and not challenging for the big one. Sydney especially likes winners and if the club bottomed out a few years sure the following would drop off but in the resurgence the crowds would be mind boggling as we have seen in the late '90's and 2003 onward. In Sydney if you are middle ground you are seen as mediocre and not rth following as you are not a serious contender.

I like what you said about only keeping coaches employed because I think it is the coaches who have created the myth that it would be disastrous for us to bottom out. This happened from Eade onward, there was this mantra that Sydney had to always be successfu. But the thing they forgot is that the only success Sydneysiders recognise is Premierships.

[wolftone57]

Jeez the Saints, Pies and Bombers did really well. Most of the others I don't think have had better than a 50% strike rate.

If you also look at who the Pies got from other clubs that were top 10ers then they did extremely well. they picked up Luke Ball and I'd like to know what area of the draft Jolly, Krackouer & Dick originally were taken. I think they did very well with Father/Son. Was Tarrent a F/S pick because the Tarrents have a long tradition at the Pise and are rabid Pie supporters. I worked with what I think was his grandmother and 2 of her sons played for the Pies although only one played A Grade in the early '80's I think (memory not that good)

[Triple B]

Jolly came off the rookie list at Melbourne.

[alison.z]

In regards to Cyril Rioli - anyone who has read 'The Draft' by Emma Quayle would probably agree that there would be some serious doubts about Rioli's ability to settle in Sydney. Was extremely homesick in Melbourne even with some family around so moving to Sydney with no support network wouldn't have benefited him at all and I'm not sure he would be anywhere near the player he is now or even still at the Swans. Don't think it was a mistake to overlook him as much as I would love to have him in the team.

In reality I think we've overachieved so far with the youth coming through but give it a few years with top draft picks Rohan, Johnston and Jetta cementing a spot in the team and mid range picks Hannebery, Parker and Reid improving ... We could yet be lauding our recruiters!

[wolftone57]

Jolly came off the rookie list at Melbourne.

Thanks T I wondered.

[GongSwan]

In regards to Cyril Rioli - anyone who has read 'The Draft' by Emma Quayle would probably agree that there would be some serious doubts about Rioli's ability to settle in Sydney. Was extremely homesick in Melbourne even with some family around so moving to Sydney with no support network wouldn't have benefited him at all and I'm not sure he would be anywhere near the player he is now or even still at the Swans. Don't think it was a mistake to overlook him as much as I would love to have him in the team.

In reality I think we've overachieved so far with the youth coming through but give it a few years with top draft picks Rohan, Johnston and Jetta cementing a spot in the team and mid range picks Hannebery, Parker and Reid improving ... We could yet be lauding our recruiters!

This makes a point some people forget, even if yr drafting players out of the top 10, the player still has to want ro come to Sydney, they don't just draft them, the recruiters do talk to the kids first, and it's hard enough for 18 yo kids to leave home these days never mind moving interstate, it's not like when I was a lad and pissed off at 17 to go wherever, times have changed and really, with the way Sydney is perceived in the interstate press kids must look at all that and say I aint going. Shannon Grant? Anthony Rocca? Currently where is Byron? These are things that have to be taken into account when gauging the character of young players being drafted, and these days, near as I can tell, yv got a lot of kids who don't want to leave home or people with wives who don't want to leave home etc. Our recruiters are up gainst it and the coaches and development staff should be applauded for keeping us at the level of success we have enjoyed, even if we've had hiccups and heart attacks

[GongSwan]

In regards to Cyril Rioli - anyone who has read 'The Draft' by Emma Quayle would probably agree that there would be some serious doubts about Rioli's ability to settle in Sydney. Was extremely homesick in Melbourne even with some family around so moving to Sydney with no support network wouldn't have benefited him at all and I'm not sure he would be anywhere near the player he is now or even still at the Swans. Don't think it was a mistake to overlook him as much as I would love to have him in the team.

In reality I think we've overachieved so far with the youth coming through but give it a few years with top draft picks Rohan, Johnston and Jetta cementing a spot in the team and mid range picks Hannebery, Parker and Reid improving ... We could yet be lauding our recruiters!

This makes a point some people forget, even if yr drafting players out of the top 10, the player still has to want ro come to Sydney, they don't just draft them, the recruiters do talk to the kids first, and it's hard enough for 18 yo kids to leave home these days never mind moving interstate, it's not like when I was a lad and pissed off at 17 to go wherever, times have changed and really, with the way Sydney is perceived in the interstate press kids must look at all that and say I aint going. Shannon Grant? Anthony Rocca? Currently where is Byron? These are things that have to be taken into account when gauging the character of young players being drafted, and these days, near as I can tell, yv got a lot of kids who don't want to leave home or people with wives who don't want to leave home etc. Our recruiters are up gainst it and the coaches and development staff should be applauded for keeping us at the level of success we have enjoyed, even if we've had hiccups and heart attacks

[Go Swannies]

Off topic but Gong Swan do you know the Gong couple injured in the road accident after the game on Sunday? If so, my commiserations.

[caj23]

In regards to Cyril Rioli - anyone who has read 'The Draft' by Emma Quayle would probably agree that there would be some serious doubts about Rioli's ability to settle in Sydney. Was extremely homesick in Melbourne even with some family around so moving to Sydney with no support network wouldn't have benefited him at all and I'm not sure he would be anywhere near the player he is now or even still at the Swans. Don't think it was a mistake to overlook him as much as I would love to have him in the team.

I haven't read the book but I've heard that Vezpremi was also expected to be someone who would struggle moving away from Melbourne. For those that have read the book is that an accurate statement?

[Jewels]

I haven't read the book but I've heard that Vezpremi was also expected to be someone who would struggle moving away from Melbourne. For those that have read the book is that an accurate statement?

No, I didn't get that. It does say that he was very close to his Mum but there is no mention of moving away being a particular problem for him, whereas with Cyril it was mentioned many, many times that all teams wondered how he would settle into Melbourne let alone an interstate team.