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Thread: Mega merged trading thread

  1. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck'n'Roll View Post
    I absoluely agree, to put it another way from an earlier post on the 2013 draft
    Without the academy the brief absence from finals that we experienced could well have been more akin to the post Edelstun apocalypse. I think it that important.
    Dont agree one bit . Academy has given us some good talent , Mills , Gulden, Heeney , Campbel , Blakey . We had to give up draft picks to get them , Look at all the talent we 've drafted outside the academy , Jmac, Chad, Mccartin, Papley , Dawson, McDonald , Hayward , Stephens , Florent . Every pick we have to give up for academy bids is one we could 've used to find other talents like that .Itis a double edged sword .

  2. #926
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBloods View Post
    Dont agree one bit . Academy has given us some good talent , Mills , Gulden, Heeney , Campbel , Blakey . We had to give up draft picks to get them , Look at all the talent we 've drafted outside the academy , Jmac, Chad, Mccartin, Papley , Dawson, McDonald , Hayward , Stephens , Florent . Every pick we have to give up for academy bids is one we could 've used to find other talents like that .Itis a double edged sword .
    Of course - but also with every player taken from the academy, the risk of the 'go home' factor is a lot lower too. I think over time that will have huge benefits (probably not quite enough academy players yet to fully measure it however).
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  3. #927
    The ability to match bids from other clubs together with a 20% discount make the academy into a priceless asset for us. We also have the advantage of watching a kid develop from a young age almost on a daily basis.

  4. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aprilbr View Post
    The ability to match bids from other clubs together with a 20% discount make the academy into a priceless asset for us. We also have the advantage of watching a kid develop from a young age almost on a daily basis.
    Point is matching bid still means we give something up . Its not like we get them for a free. Imagine if when we got Blakey we had to use one of our lower picks to match him , and it cost us Jmac with our pick in the 40s ! We get Blakey which is great but its leveled out by losing Jmac ! Same as last year when we used picks to match Gulden and Campbell , glad we got them but those picks could 've got us the next Jmac or Chad . We pay our fair share to get our academy players . Cant call it an asset or a negative , its just fair .

  5. #929
    Ego alta, ergo ictus Ruck'n'Roll's Avatar
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    You are quite correct in that the Academy selections don't come fror free, and yes given our spectacular hit rate with late picks we could quite possibly have picked up the next Jmac or Chad - however that's not what the club did is it?
    Which suggests the ability to bundle picks and match bids IS actually an advantage, albeit one whose utility the AFL have eroded.

    In 2014 we used late 30's picks to move up the order and match the bid to acquire Mills, would we really be better off without him, but with Blake Hardwick, Riley Bonner, Samuel Collins, Tom Phillips or Jade Gresham? It's possible I suppose, but in Mills we have an absolutely genuine A grader.
    The Tom Papley Backpack $39.99 from the RWO merchandise tab - if only!

  6. #930
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBloods View Post
    Point is matching bid still means we give something up . Its not like we get them for a free. Imagine if when we got Blakey we had to use one of our lower picks to match him , and it cost us Jmac with our pick in the 40s ! We get Blakey which is great but its leveled out by losing Jmac ! Same as last year when we used picks to match Gulden and Campbell , glad we got them but those picks could 've got us the next Jmac or Chad . We pay our fair share to get our academy players . Cant call it an asset or a negative , its just fair .
    There are pros and cons, but to suggest it is not an asset to have access to players through the academy is absolutely bonkers.
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  7. #931
    Interesting discussion - i see both sides. I think it depends on what we consider an "asset" to be. On the one hand i see TheBloods' point.. we are giving something to get something, often late picks, and that is the range where we have found some of our very best champions over the years, so it is true that in matching certain bids for future stars we may be unknowingly costing ourselves certain other future stars.. & also.. it does seem ironic to call something that is designed to give us a fighting chance in a draft system that so heavily favours the traditional footy states an "advantage".

    On the other hand.. a simple definition of "asset" reads: "a useful or valuable thing or person". So the good people of RWO calling our ability to secure academy talents an asset are spot on.. i would not go so far as to say it is an advantage but it is certainly 'useful' to be able to watch these lads from the time they are 10, 11 years old and develop them from within.. to have that confidence in who the player is at the time of drafting.. the 'valuable' part comes once they are Swans players.. not wanting to leave NSW and being dedicated and loyal to the Swans.. almost can't put a price on that!!

    CHEER CHEER

  8. #932
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    Even though there is no chance of "go home" factor for an academy player, it doesn't mean they won't leave for other reasons. Players move interstate to be with partners or some may want all the attention that comes with being an AFL footballer in Melbourne. Not to mention the threat of a club throwing serious money around. The Swans had to pay big money to hold onto Heeney last negotiations due to offers from other clubs. It's not implausible that he might leave. I'm just not sure exactly how much loyalty has been garnered through the academy, we'll find out over the next few years.

  9. #933
    Ego alta, ergo ictus Ruck'n'Roll's Avatar
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    Mitch Clark, pulled the go home card on Brisbane, only to end up in Melbourne. The pull of Melournes Big Clubs is considerable.

    I also recall that we had to pay big to fend of North in particular regarding Heeney, so although we havent had any academy departures it might be concievable.
    The Tom Papley Backpack $39.99 from the RWO merchandise tab - if only!

  10. #934
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck'n'Roll View Post
    Mitch Clark, pulled the go home card on Brisbane, only to end up in Melbourne. The pull of Melournes Big Clubs is considerable.

    I also recall that we had to pay big to fend of North in particular regarding Heeney, so although we havent had any academy departures it might be concievable.
    I agree with all of this. Heeney, Mills etc are likely to stay but if they get offered much more elsewhere then who knows? Sydney also suffers from a cost of living perception even though its a great city to live in. The same clubs that pushed for the cost of living allowance to be removed use cost of living as a key plank in their efforts to poach our (and GWS) players.

  11. #935
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aprilbr View Post
    I agree with all of this. Heeney, Mills etc are likely to stay but if they get offered much more elsewhere then who knows? Sydney also suffers from a cost of living perception even though its a great city to live in. The same clubs that pushed for the cost of living allowance to be removed use cost of living as a key plank in their efforts to poach our (and GWS) players.
    Of course academy doesn't remove completely the 'might go elsewhere factor'. But nothing ever can - and surely the academy will minimise that risk.

    More broadly, more on draft than trading (but threads all mixed up a bit at the moment), was interesting to read the premiership club update from Kinnear Beatson today - copied below for people that haven't seen. Gives a really neat insight to our thinking on draft night this year - as a few on here suspected, we weren't sold on the key position players available at our picks.

    Every recruiter gets excited about the new players they draft. It’s a new era commencing, and time will tell and judge whether they’ve been good selections or not. There’s a lot that they have to confront, and it’s a huge challenge to any player stepping up to AFL level. It’s a very demanding, challenging environment both physically and mentally. Most of these young men are very young, they’ve just completed year 12, they’ve barely spent any time away from home – so there’s a lot that they have to deal with, but it’s an exciting time ahead for all of them and for the club.

    Overall, we’re pleased with how we went in the 2021 Draft. We would have liked to have picked up another key position player, but our philosophy with key position players is that there’s no point taking them if they don’t look good enough to play at the elite level. It always looks good on paper, but if they’re not up to the elite level there’s no point.

    We didn’t feel during the draft there were key position players available to us that were significantly better than the midfielders available, thus we continued to go down the track of recruiting midfielders that can play other roles as well. You can never have too many midfielders, and it puts pressures on the existing ones which is what you want.

    We picked up West Australian Angus Sheldrick on night one at pick 18, and he was a player that we had been keeping an eye on since he emerged mid-season. He wasn’t initially in the Under 18 Academy Hub, but through his performances with Claremont they included him in that squad and from then on his performances for both WA and for Claremont just continued to develop really strongly, including a really promising performance WAFL Colts Grand Final against Swan Districts.

    The pleasing thing about Angus is he primarily is an inside-mid, a left footer, and his main asset is his explosiveness away from the stoppages and his ability to win contested ball. A couple of times throughout 2021 he also showed his ability to push forward and kick goals for both Claremont and WA. What was impressive was when he was playing for Claremont and he got a severely corked thigh, he pushed forward and kicked three goals in the last quarter which was a pretty good effort given he doesn’t normally play that role. We think he’ll break into the team through midfield, but he also has the potential to play as a small forward.

    It’s disappointing not to be able to get our West Australian draftees over here to Sydney to get settled in, but while the WA hard borders are in place with NSW it’s just not a possibility. Fortunately Angus and Corey Warner are over there with Chad Warner and Loga McDonald, who have had at least a year in the system, know what’s involved and will be able to guide them through some pre-season training over there. They’re due back after Christmas so they’ll get involved then.

    Matthew Roberts is another left footer. He had an interesting year last year playing Colts, Reserves and Seniors for South Adelaide. Roberts also had to combine that with school and college football at St Peters, and then representing South Australia in the National Under 18s. The thing about Matty is he’s a good decision maker with the ball, and he has a good left foot kick, he can play multiple roles inside or outside midfield, but he also showed us at senior level that he can play as a high half forward. In reserves, he also showed he could play across half back and use his kicking as a weapon there.

    Lachlan Rankin’s greatest asset is his decision making with the ball in hand and also his kicking. He’s a little lighter in his frame, so he’ll take a bit of time to put on the required body mass but he could play wing, half back, high half forward as well on those outside roles where you need good ball users.

    Corey Warner is a midfielder like his brother Chad, but he plays more outside on the wing. Out of the four draftees, he would be the best athlete for speed and endurance, his running capacity is really good. The area that he needs to concentrate on is the use of the ball and the decision making. He’s a tremendous runner and if he’s anything like Chad, which he is, we’re confident he’ll knuckle down and do the work to improve in the areas where he’s a bit deficient in the moment.

    At the end of the day, where these guys play really depends on what opportunities arise, and also what form they’re showing. I’m really excited about the potential of this group of young Drafts in 2022, and look forward to seeing what impact they have on the club.
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  12. #936
    Thanks very much for posting that, mcs. I, for one, hadn't seen it and have been hankering to hear KB speak about our draftees. So far there's really only been the video from Dalrymple (which was fine) and some comments KB made after the first round when we had only taken Sheldrick. There's nothing especially newsworthy there but still interested to read their thoughts.
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