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Thread: HEALTH CHECK - SYDNEY FOOTY

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    HEALTH CHECK - SYDNEY FOOTY

    While it's a bit quiet on this forum, thought now would be a good time to discuss where footy is at in our fine city.

    I think the advent of divisions in 2009, while it divided opinions then and still does, it has given opportunities for growth not previously possible, with single team clubs a realistic chance of survival, as opposed to under the old UTS & Manly dominated SFA.

    A few points to add, good and bad since 2009

    • Manly and UTS rightly promoted to Premier Division, and more than proving their worth. Whether this is due to a weakening of the comp owing to NEAFL remains to be seen. But the Wolves are flying.

      Growth and reduction of clubs - my own club fell on its arse HARD after making finals in Div 2, 4 and U18 2's. SHEagles losing an 18s team this year. Auburn going from 1 team, to 2, back to 1, up and down the divisions. Forfeits in Division 2 this year, I think 3 so far? But Randwick adding a team, 3rd grades at Parra, Moorebank, Penrith, Cronulla, Manly, Eagles.

      Gosford joining the comp with 1 grade, I can't see them adding another just yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if teams from the Central West (probably only Bathurst) and South Coast FL put in a team or two, and we split to conferences. Just a thought.


    That's all I can be assed writing just now, but the cans of worms is now open. Add your two cents.

  2. #2
    All round: The Sydney AFL comps are currently the weakest I've ever seen.
    The standard is poor from the lowest division right to the top.
    There are no crowds.
    There is no life in whole comp.

    I thought 10 years ago it was average but was excited believing it could only get better. But I've lost interest myself now, couldn't even be bothered going to watch any more games after the first 2 rounds this year. Sorry to sound like a whinger, but the standard is really bad if we are honest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Oath View Post
    All round: The Sydney AFL comps are currently the weakest I've ever seen.
    The standard is poor from the lowest division right to the top.
    There are no crowds.
    There is no life in whole comp.

    I thought 10 years ago it was average but was excited believing it could only get better. But I've lost interest myself now, couldn't even be bothered going to watch any more games after the first 2 rounds this year. Sorry to sound like a whinger, but the standard is really bad if we are honest.
    Honesty is the idea. Do you follow a particular division or club Ken?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Oath View Post
    All round: The Sydney AFL comps are currently the weakest I've ever seen.
    The standard is poor from the lowest division right to the top.
    There are no crowds.
    There is no life in whole comp.

    I thought 10 years ago it was average but was excited believing it could only get better. But I've lost interest myself now, couldn't even be bothered going to watch any more games after the first 2 rounds this year. Sorry to sound like a whinger, but the standard is really bad if we are honest.
    I disagree with Ken in a few respects. I was at BISP 2 on Saturday. Games should have been transferred to BISP 1 IMO, they had a decent crowd, probably 10 times what the Suns V Giants NEAFL game had next door.

    NEAFL has certainly eaten into Sydney AFL, but I noted on Saturday to a few people that the lowest Div (5) certainly seems to have many new/younger players on the park than say, 2 years ago when it was almost a masters division.

    Ken, I think you should go to some more games that will look competitive. Maybe you just went to two blowout games this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Oath View Post
    But I've lost interest myself now, couldn't even be bothered going to watch any more games after the first 2 rounds this year. Sorry to sound like a whinger, but the standard is really bad if we are honest.
    Well you're certainly in a good position to judge the whole competition given the two games you've seen this year...

    Like others, I disagree with you Ken. You must've seen a couple of pretty average games. I can say from our club, we currently have more players in our club from VFL, VAFA A-grade, SANFL, SAAFL, and WAFL then ever before (I believe more than 20), along with two ex-AFL players. I think we'd all agree these are pretty decent leagues. At our best, I think our side is a pretty decent, though there are sides that have beaten us this year. To simply say the level is not where it used to be is a little naive I think.

    As for no crowds...again I can only speak from what I've seen, but we had our largest attendance at our Ladies day this year - just under 400. Games at Waverley (or game, as our 2nd was washed out...) had a touch over a 100 locals. I've been in Sydney 8 years now and it hasn't been better from our point of view. Granted, these numbers are nothing compared to what my home club in Vic used to attract, but things appear to be on the increase for us.
    In every game there is going to be a cross-road, and when you get to that cross-road you either step up, or you step down!

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    What club are you from in VIC UTSBatman?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Oath View Post
    All round: The Sydney AFL comps are currently the weakest I've ever seen.
    The standard is poor from the lowest division right to the top.
    There are no crowds.
    There is no life in whole comp.

    I thought 10 years ago it was average but was excited believing it could only get better. But I've lost interest myself now, couldn't even be bothered going to watch any more games after the first 2 rounds this year. Sorry to sound like a whinger, but the standard is really bad if we are honest.
    There haven't been "crowds" at Sydney footy since the Swans came to Sydney.

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    Frankston Bombers, Tim.

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    If the promotion-relegation system was designed to level out each division it isn't working yet. Each comp is just as lop sided as ever. The reasons for this may be numerous.....maybe more thought should go into each movement and not be automatic.

  10. #10
    I think there are more positives than negatives. The opportunity for promotion if you win a comp is a great carrot.

    As an umpire though, one constant groan I hear is the standard of club umpires and the fact that there are not enough to go around.

    I have club umpired for 11 different clubs this year - the demand far outweighs supply though and due to clashes, I have had to say no to many games this year. For instance, this Saturday, I am umpiring 3 games and have had to say no to 5 others including one game at Gosford.

    The AFL is doing a decent job of promoting club umpire courses but the reality is not many want to do it. It is not something you can force people to do. How do you sweeten the deal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Offal View Post
    I think there are more positives than negatives. The opportunity for promotion if you win a comp is a great carrot.
    I don't necessarily agree that promotion is what teams seek.

    Is it better to be at the pointy end of a lower div ladder or at the bottom of a higher division?

    Did Gosford, Blacktown and Randwick request to play in a higher division or were they just happy to enter their first grade in the fourth or fifth best division where success is more likely.

    Norwest were quickly put down from div 2 to 3. Sure they lost personnel but if they valued playing the highest standard of footy possible could they not have stayed and struggled in div 2?

    A club might put together a great team unit and finally win a competition only to find themselves next year at the bottom of the higher division where going back to back is almost impossible.

    Manly and UTS were so dominant they had to be promoted like Baulko and Syd Uni before them.

    Some clubs like Parramatta were keen to be promoted to Div 1 and the SydneyAFL should have assisted their aspiration as much as possible regardless of whether they came first or second in div 2.

    IMO if a club doesn't want to be promoted they should not be forced and the same for relegation.

    St George had one bad season in div 1 in 20 years and found themselves relegated. Good for them they are back up there.

    Why did Sydney Uni drop down from div 1 to 2? Up until a couple of weeks ago their % was over 300.

    I'm mentioning these examples not to pick on any club or team but to highlight the seemingly erratic promotion/relegation system.

    While I support the notion of teams going up and down divisions the current "automatic" system is not always the best outcome for the league. If a team wins a division who is to say they won't lose half of their players and be totally outclassed in the higher division the following year? Maybe they should be assessed for they recruiting and losses over the off season and decisions made after consultation. The same for relegation. A team who runs last might be recruiting heavily over the off season or may have been hit hard with injuries and thus should be given another year before relegation is forced upon them.

    The talk of Sydney Uni and Sydney Hills dropping out of premier division next year clearly shows they don't really value that their reserves play the highest standard possible. (I'm assuming they're not fighting the decision.) Syd Uni are travelling OK and Syd Hills might be better next year.

    All first grade teams should be strongly encouraged to play div 2 or higher. Clubs like Auburn should never have been allowed to enter the lowest div in their first year. The league should have assessed their player list when they nominated the team.

    I preferred the days of rivalry between clubs which is greatly diminished now in the lower divisions.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coastal Boy View Post
    I don't necessarily agree that promotion is what teams seek.

    Is it better to be at the pointy end of a lower div ladder or at the bottom of a higher division?

    Did Gosford, Blacktown and Randwick request to play in a higher division or were they just happy to enter their first grade in the fourth or fifth best division where success is more likely.

    Norwest were quickly put down from div 2 to 3. Sure they lost personnel but if they valued playing the highest standard of footy possible could they not have stayed and struggled in div 2?

    A club might put together a great team unit and finally win a competition only to find themselves next year at the bottom of the higher division where going back to back is almost impossible.

    Manly and UTS were so dominant they had to be promoted like Baulko and Syd Uni before them.

    Some clubs like Parramatta were keen to be promoted to Div 1 and the SydneyAFL should have assisted their aspiration as much as possible regardless of whether they came first or second in div 2.

    IMO if a club doesn't want to be promoted they should not be forced and the same for relegation.

    St George had one bad season in div 1 in 20 years and found themselves relegated. Good for them they are back up there.

    Why did Sydney Uni drop down from div 1 to 2? Up until a couple of weeks ago their % was over 300.

    I'm mentioning these examples not to pick on any club or team but to highlight the seemingly erratic promotion/relegation system.

    While I support the notion of teams going up and down divisions the current "automatic" system is not always the best outcome for the league. If a team wins a division who is to say they won't lose half of their players and be totally outclassed in the higher division the following year? Maybe they should be assessed for they recruiting and losses over the off season and decisions made after consultation. The same for relegation. A team who runs last might be recruiting heavily over the off season or may have been hit hard with injuries and thus should be given another year before relegation is forced upon them.

    The talk of Sydney Uni and Sydney Hills dropping out of premier division next year clearly shows they don't really value that their reserves play the highest standard possible. (I'm assuming they're not fighting the decision.) Syd Uni are travelling OK and Syd Hills might be better next year.

    All first grade teams should be strongly encouraged to play div 2 or higher. Clubs like Auburn should never have been allowed to enter the lowest div in their first year. The league should have assessed their player list when they nominated the team.

    I preferred the days of rivalry between clubs which is greatly diminished now in the lower divisions.
    While you make good points, you don't know my club's situation over the summer. With the players left being mainly last year's reserve graders (Div4) and a smattering of Div 2 and U18s, plus a bunch of young fellas new to the game, I wasn't prepared to keep our only team left in Division 2. We'd have lost players hand over fist and been left with nothing. The fact we are in 5th spot in Div 3 would mean we'd be a bit further south in a strong Div 2 if we stayed there.

    We hope to get back to two teams and higher divisions, but it's not the be all and end all, existence is the key.

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