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Thread: Perris Joins The Rookie List

  1. #37
    Veterans List Ludwig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mug Punter View Post
    This is so simple, if the Swans rate Perris we draft him!

    If we don't then we put him on our rookie list and run the risk of losing him.

    Don't see how this is an ethical question at all for the kid (gimme a break) - surely being a full listed player at an AFL club (any club) trumps being a rookie listed player any day.

    So, Richard it is simple. You have the guaranteed chance to draft this kid. If the Swans rate him then make it happen, if you don't make ity happen and he gets the opportunity elsewhere we choose not to offer him then we lose him.

    This baloney about not having enough list places. Again, if we rate him make it happen. Trade a player to create a spot or delist someone.

    This whole Roos thing is such a storm in a teacup. If we lose out on this kid it will be fault/decision of the Sydney Swans football dept not the fault of Paul Roos

    I find it hard to see how Paul Roos (potentially) offering a career development opportunity (i.e. a full AFL list place) that we are not prepatred to do is unethical.

    The sense of entitlement some on here are displaying in respect of this is unbelievable
    Aren't you contradicting yourself by saying it's a simple matter and then saying all we have to do is trade out or delist a player? Ir actually does demonstrate that we do have a limitied number of spots and some tough decisions about having to choose between 2 players that we would like to be on our list.

  2. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    Aren't you contradicting yourself by saying it's a simple matter and then saying all we have to do is trade out or delist a player? Ir actually does demonstrate that we do have a limitied number of spots and some tough decisions about having to choose between 2 players that we would like to be on our list.
    Not at all!!

    The debate and wrist-slitting here is based on the assumption that we have to be able to elevate Xavier, BJack and Rampe in this draft therefore having limited sopts.

    Drafting and list management will always involve some tough decisions - it's a simple question, is he worthy of a spot in our top 42? If he is not then why the hysteria about him going somewhere where he is valued that highly? Shouldn't we instead wish him all the best and be happy that an additional NSW kid is on an AFL List? Shouldn't we be happy that the Academy is working even if we don't rate the kids it produces yet?

    If we rate him in the top 42 we just have to make it happen. Don't draft Xavier Richards, trade a fringe player for a late round draft pick and use that pick, do whatwever we need to do

    It clearly demonstrates the depth we have in ouir squad but I would think that having had a good look at this kid over a number of years Kinnear Beetson will make the correct call if he is draftable. What is irking Colless so much is that we would have hoped to hide him on our rookie list and have the draft pick..

    As I said, if we don't draft him then he is not rated in the top 42 in our club and I fail to see how we can then vilify Roosy if he (allegedly) "steals" our 43rd - 48th best player....

    W

  3. #39
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    Lloyd Perris was one of the kids pulled out of NSW/ACT State Zone Trials in 2010 and given a "scholarship" with the Swans.
    Others were given scholarships with other AFL Clubs.
    He was the captain of the zone he was in (Pigeons/Sydney South) and probably the best player. But only just, there were lots of good players in that zone team. They won the bulk of their games in that 2008-2011 period at the SZT, regularly beating the Southern NSW & Riverina area Zone teams. He was given a great opportunity, and he seems to have made something of it so far, playing very well in the latter half of the NEAFL season. Good luck to him wherever he ends up.

  4. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by KTigers View Post
    Lloyd Perris was one of the kids pulled out of NSW/ACT State Zone Trials in 2010 and given a "scholarship" with the Swans.
    Others were given scholarships with other AFL Clubs.
    He was the captain of the zone he was in (Pigeons/Sydney South) and probably the best player. But only just, there were lots of good players in that zone team. They won the bulk of their games in that 2008-2011 period at the SZT, regularly beating the Southern NSW & Riverina area Zone teams. He was given a great opportunity, and he seems to have made something of it so far, playing very well in the latter half of the NEAFL season. Good luck to him wherever he ends up.
    Agreed

    To me the key to the Academy system is that it (hopefully) means that the next Longmire or Carey to come out of our zone is locked in to the Swans.

    It's not really about borderline talent such as Perris, though there is real merit in the junior development program separate from Swans draft benefits.

  5. #41
    Formerly 'BBB' Triple B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mug Punter View Post
    It's not really about borderline talent such as Perris,.....
    Methinks you may be surprised....
    Driver of the Dan Hannebery bandwagon....all aboard. 4th April 09

  6. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple B View Post
    Methinks you may be surprised....
    Well, if he is that great he's worth a draft pick!!!

    My point that is that the academy was designed to give the northern states an incentive to develop their own champions and if there are any standout locals then we can have essentially a geographical priority pick. Perris may be a good prospect but it doesn't sound like he is a first round draft pick.

    As I said before, Kinnear Beetson and his list management team need to determine if he is in our top 42. It's the same process as for any other recruit, the difference being that if we decide he is then we have certainty of drafting him

  7. #43
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    Academy training has the kids playing more an uncontested style of junior footy these days as opposed to before. They run and spread and their kicking is way better. Some of the games almost look like basketball with little contact though, and that is a bit of a problem for a number of the kids when they run into less technically skilled but more physical opponents in the older age groups. Lloyd Perris comes from the earlier in and under era of junior footy, where a lot of the games resembled rugby style rolling mauls (not unlike the first half of the Swans-Freo prelim I might add) and was certainly whacked around a bit by bigger aggressive opponents. It will probably stand him in good stead if he starts to play against men rather than boys in the AFL eventually.

  8. #44
    Veterans List Ludwig's Avatar
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    From the Swans club perspective the first purpose of the Swans Academy is to try to bring young NSW talent into the club. As a by product of that process, it will build greater interest in Aussie Rules in the region, which will also benefit the Swans.

    There are very few talents that make it through the academy system to become 18 year olds with genuine AFL talent. Perris is clearly one of those, and considering all that goes into getting at best just one quality player out of the system a year, we should take every advantage to make it pay off.

    For all that goes into the Academy, the main payoff is that we can get a first crack of these players if we want them. Perris is the last of the scholarship rules players which grant even a greater benefit in that we can add him to our list without using a draft pick. Without this benefit, Perris would likely cost a second round draft pick based on how draft watchers have rated him. It's like getting a second round pick for free. Dayne Beams went for pick 29 and Hanners for pick 30 in the 2008 draft. That could be what exercising our rights to Perris could mean. So I think it's significant.

    I congratulate those who think it's an easy decision to determine whether Perris would be in our top 42, and who should drop out in his stead. For me, it seems much harder. I don't think its an easy decision to delist Tony Armstrong, for example, and pay out his 2014 because he's number 43 on my list. I don't know if putting Perris on our primary list to the exclusion of Jake Lloyd or Biggs, will cause them to opt for the national draft. I don't want lose any of them. I don't know if having Perris, Lloyd and Lamb all vying for similar spots is too much of the same thing in one team, and if it is, who to let go of.

    I think when you have so few players out of contract, and not necessarily the right ones, and so many rookies doing well, when its far more common that none succeed, and in the same year the best quality talent to come out of the scholarship program reaches drafting age, you are going to have list management problems and some very hard decisions to make.

  9. #45
    Formerly 'BBB' Triple B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mug Punter View Post
    Well, if he is that great he's worth a draft pick!!!

    My point that is that the academy was designed to give the northern states an incentive to develop their own champions and if there are any standout locals then we can have essentially a geographical priority pick. Perris may be a good prospect but it doesn't sound like he is a first round draft pick.

    As I said before, Kinnear Beetson and his list management team need to determine if he is in our top 42. It's the same process as for any other recruit, the difference being that if we decide he is then we have certainty of drafting him
    My read of the whole business is not that the Swans think he is not worth a draft pick, far from it, but with the VERY unusual circumstances this year of trying to get at least 2 of Rampe, BJ, X-Man and Biggs onto the senior list the list may be better served to pre-select and rookie list Perris which they can do with his blessing.

    Colless obviously believes with Paul Roos sniffing around suggesting to Perris a spot is there on the Melbourne senior list if the Swans don't elect to place him directly on the senior list undermines what plans the Swans may have had in place for him and the club list going forward.

    As I said earlier, somewhere, the way the rules are nowadays the rookie list is just an extension of the senior list anyway. I don't see too many rookies being denied a game in the seniors at any club if they are good enough.
    Driver of the Dan Hannebery bandwagon....all aboard. 4th April 09

  10. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple B View Post
    My read of the whole business is not that the Swans think he is not worth a draft pick, far from it, but with the VERY unusual circumstances this year of trying to get at least 2 of Rampe, BJ, X-Man and Biggs onto the senior list the list may be better served to pre-select and rookie list Perris which they can do with his blessing.

    Colless obviously believes with Paul Roos sniffing around suggesting to Perris a spot is there on the Melbourne senior list if the Swans don't elect to place him directly on the senior list undermines what plans the Swans may have had in place for him and the club list going forward.

    As I said earlier, somewhere, the way the rules are nowadays the rookie list is just an extension of the senior list anyway. I don't see too many rookies being denied a game in the seniors at any club if they are good enough.
    True but most players would take being on the list proper any day..

    Reality is that the Swans only have a "right" over Perris if we draft him, if not then factors such as the player's wishes and other clubs come into play.

    As I have said, if he is our top 42 then draft him. If Roos is actually interested in drafting him then he has actually done us a favour by flagging his interest as we may have complacently thought that no other club could come in for him and leave him rookie listed

  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mug Punter View Post
    True but most players would take being on the list proper any day..

    Reality is that the Swans only have a "right" over Perris if we draft him, if not then factors such as the player's wishes and other clubs come into play.

    As I have said, if he is our top 42 then draft him. If Roos is actually interested in drafting him then he has actually done us a favour by flagging his interest as we may have complacently thought that no other club could come in for him and leave him rookie listed
    Clearly we want him, since it appears that we've offered him a rookie spot. Rookie listing Perris makes the list management process a bit easier.

    Now the ball is in Perris's court. If he turns it down, because he wants to be on a primary list, then the ball is back in our court. We will probably grant him his wish to be placed on our primary list, because he's probably a top 30 draft pick. It's more a matter of trust between the parties and whether forcing the Swans to take him on the primary is the best way to start a long term relationship. On the other hand, it is a professional sport, so all parties need to look after their own respective interests.

  12. #48
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    Isnt there also a $ difference between rookie and list?

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