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Thread: State League Player Permit Trial from 2014

  1. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Seagull View Post
    So if I've got this right...a club that doesn't join the NEAFL is expected to prop up those that do, at the expense of their own form and player development?

    Very few clubs have cash to throw around on recruitment yet the expectation is their best player might have to play for another club...ridiculous!

    This all sounds like an after-thought to a faulty system.

    Surely if a club decides it can handle the NEAFL then it must allow for depth before entering the fray? This isn't a 'pathway', this is a band-aid measure!

    If a kid is good enough for an AFL career, he'll be noticed no matter where he plays in this town.
    Spot on.

    The Student and others will bleat on with their sense of entitlement of how great they are for the game (just because they happened to be strong at the end of the 2011 season) but your post sums the issue up concisely and correctly.

    All future posts re the flawed NEAFL should refer back to Seagull's post.

    Play the Swans, GWS, Lions and Suns in an 14 team SANFL. Let Baulko and Sydney Uni play where they belong, in the SFL.

  2. #38
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    Seagull's post has summed it up well, especially the last sentence. The likes of Dane Rampe and Brandon Jack have shown the pathway is there - playing Sydney AFL, with the odd NEAFL game as a top-up for the Swans reserves.

    Follow me on Twitter - @tealfooty

  3. #39
    agreed there

    Quote Originally Posted by Norris Lurker View Post
    Seagull's post has summed it up well, especially the last sentence. The likes of Dane Rampe and Brandon Jack have shown the pathway is there - playing Sydney AFL, with the odd NEAFL game as a top-up for the Swans reserves.

  4. #40
    A proper AFL reserves comp would be the ideal solution.

    Let the state leagues be state leagues.

  5. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Seagull View Post
    So if I've got this right...a club that doesn't join the NEAFL is expected to prop up those that do, at the expense of their own form and player development?
    Apart from the learned debate on this thread, the only actual mention about this new NEAFL trial was on the Eagles website.
    So you'd better let us all know what you know about "EXPECTED TO" and "PROP UP" and "AT THE EXPENSE OF THEIR OWN PLAYER DEVELOPMENT"...it must be all covered somewhere that the rest of us haven't gotten to read so far.

    All I know is that players will be invited to try out in NEAFL - and that's got to be good for their development doesn't it ?

  6. #42
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    The fact that both SHEagles and SydUni receive an AFL grant to help finance their NEAFL venture is probably widely accepted as necessary.
    But to allow them access to other clubs players takes things too far. I can only assume both clubs approached the NSWAFL crying they had a lack a talent in their ranks....or worse, the NEAFL complained they needed to improve their list.
    If they cannot recruit a competitive list without assistance then maybe they have bitten off more than they can chew and they ought to reconsider their position.
    Young footballers would consider it an honour to play for GWS or Swans reserves. Due to player number constraints for these clubs it is necessary. But SHEagles and SU both have lower grades which they can draw on so they ought to leave everyone else alone.
    I feel sorry for the budding reserve grader who has busted his butt over the off season to be overlooked by the fly by night imports from other clubs.
    Young players assist the Swans and GWS with the hope they may get discovered. But I assume SHEagles and SU are not permitted to offer any temporary player a permanent offer for the next year or there really will be a club riot. So what's the point? Once again....this whole thing is ridiculous.

  7. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by justabaraker View Post
    TimF, here are some questions that I asked a SydUni fan about their involvement in NEAFL two years on - I thought his answers were top.
    How are the Eagles travelling, two years down the track ? It's cost a lot of money, stretched the volunteers hard, and the main SAFL teams are not travelling well. The NEAFL team has not done well this season.
    Has it been worth it ?
    Justa, I'll start off by saying I don't represent the views of the club and the views I hold are my own.

    To be honest, IMHO it's still too early to completely assess the Eagles entry into the NEAFL.

    Facts:
    NEAFL - Finals in our first year winning 10 games. 1st week exit. - Our Prem Div also won 5-6 games and Under 18s won a flag

    NEAFL - Won 7 games in our second season missing the finals by 3 games +%. - Our prem div won 1 game. NEAFL in all honesty should have won a few more games but we were a long way off the top so its irrelevant. Prem div suffered from a few player losses and NEAFL having a horrendous run with injury.

    We haven't broken the bank attracting new talent to the club AND from what I know (which isn't much) they haven't exceeded their player payment budgets which everyone sees at the AGM. The AFL have been very supportive of both the Eagles & Uni and they are committed to making it work for both sides.

    Volunteers at the club have been stretched since the Sydney AFL introduced its current and ridiculous structure. IMO, and I know many on here don't agree, the Sydney AFL have tried to satisfy the few rather than the many by turning it into a team competition rather than a club competition. On any given weekend we can have all of our sides playing at different venues. There is not one club in Sydney at the moment who wouldn't agree that volunteers are stretched. BUT, we are very fortunate to have some great people at the club including Chatova who give plenty to the club. However I digress.

    The Eagles were under absolutely no illusions that the step up into NEAFL wouldn't create it's challenges. We knew it wouldn't be easy both on and off the field however our members voted for the move. Our players expressed an absolute desire to play at the highest level possible in Sydney which is as it stands currently the NEAFL. They could have taken the easy path and voted to stay in the Sydney AFL. After 3 successive flags they expressed a desire to go to the next level. There were other clubs at the time who were asked to submit an application for the NEAFL. Some decided against it and some failed dismally. The Eagles and Uni were successful and both took the opportunity presented.

    What I will say is that the Eagles aren't in the NEAFL to make up the numbers. We don't go around promoting "pathway" and the other tag lines that get thrown around. We are there to compete, play finals and win it. We know how far off we are but we have some great people involved who are resilient and are in it for the long haul. We are equally committed to our premier division side and we want them winning games and making finals. At the end of every year we assess everything and then create a plan to get better.

    Whilst we are not in the same ball park, don't have the same finances, sponsors or exposure, I view it as similar to the AFL sides who gained entry. Fremantle have just played in their first ever AFL grand final after nearly 20 years. I can't imagine they sat around wanting to pull the pin throughout the early stages.

    I find it funny that some on here want to continually attack the concept of NEAFL and cry foul. Personally, I want to see more of the Sydney AFL sides step up into this competition so we can improve the overall standard of football being played in Sydney. It will be a very good day when we stop losing some of our best talent to the VFL, SANFL & WAFL and players here see that they can play a higher standard of football in their own state.

  8. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coastal Boy View Post
    The fact that both SHEagles and SydUni receive an AFL grant to help finance their NEAFL venture is probably widely accepted as necessary.
    But to allow them access to other clubs players takes things too far. I can only assume both clubs approached the NSWAFL crying they had a lack a talent in their ranks....or worse, the NEAFL complained they needed to improve their list.
    If they cannot recruit a competitive list without assistance then maybe they have bitten off more than they can chew and they ought to reconsider their position.
    Young footballers would consider it an honour to play for GWS or Swans reserves. Due to player number constraints for these clubs it is necessary. But SHEagles and SU both have lower grades which they can draw on so they ought to leave everyone else alone.
    I feel sorry for the budding reserve grader who has busted his butt over the off season to be overlooked by the fly by night imports from other clubs.
    Young players assist the Swans and GWS with the hope they may get discovered. But I assume SHEagles and SU are not permitted to offer any temporary player a permanent offer for the next year or there really will be a club riot. So what's the point? Once again....this whole thing is ridiculous.
    Coastal, I think you will find everyone is getting their knickers in a knot over nothing. I really can't see why the Eagles or Uni will be going after every clubs best players every week to top up their lists. I'm confident that both clubs will put their own players first before trying to get players from other clubs. It's an AFL decision which is very far removed from what the original discussions were.

    The original discussions surrounded a few hurdles that were faced in the first few years. We had a few players who had come to the Eagles from other Sydney AFL clubs and signed as an Eagles player wanting to play NEAFL. However, some had a few concerns about playing premier division against their old club which IMO is fair enough. They knew that they may be a fringe player or may get injured throughout the year and therefore they were concerned about playing prem div. We understood that so we spoke to the AFL about the potential of allowing our signed players who had come from other Sydney AFL clubs to go back and play at their premier division club if they were not selected to play NEAFL. We saw it as very rare and would only use it for those players who expressed this desire. It wouldn't be ideal for our premier division side but it would allow the player to be happy. We actually trialled it in 2013 with a player in the 1st half of the year AND it worked very well for both our club and the other club. However, at June 30 the AFL demanded that the player pick one club as per standard transfer deadlines.

    The AFL have then made a decision that everyone is now aware of and it will be a trial basis. They have to start somewhere and time will tell if it needs changing.
    Last edited by Tim Freedman; 21st November 2013 at 08:36 AM.

  9. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Freedman View Post
    Volunteers at the club have been stretched since the Sydney AFL introduced its current and ridiculous structure. IMO, and I know many on here don't agree, the Sydney AFL have tried to satisfy the few rather than the many by turning it into a team competition rather than a club competition. .
    I would dispute that statement. I think that the growth shows that it's been a success. The year before divisionalisation, Penrith had 1.5 teams. Got 5 now. Sure, there are some blowout games here and there, but not like previously when a team was getting flogged by 20 goals every week and had no-where else to go but to go around again the next year with the same result.

    The main critics are the PD clubs, who liked the cosy arrangements.

  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Freedman View Post
    Volunteers at the club have been stretched since the Sydney AFL introduced its current and ridiculous structure. IMO, and I know many on here don't agree, the Sydney AFL have tried to satisfy the few rather than the many by turning it into a team competition rather than a club competition. On any given weekend we can have all of our sides playing at different venues. There is not one club in Sydney at the moment who wouldn't agree that volunteers are stretched. BUT, we are very fortunate to have some great people at the club including Chatova who give plenty to the club. However I digress.
    Yes, you do.

  11. #47
    I think it is quite clear that the current model has failed, as expected.

    With ZERO interest in NEAFL from any Sydney club outside of Hills and SU, and very little interest from within those clubs, to now try and force a sham permit system on the SAFL clubs will only serves to further insult and disenfranchise them from the concept.

    Swans have actually pushed for two academy style teams, Giants and Swans aligned, but for primarily u/23's and feeding from their SAFL clubs.

    Would effectively add two senior Sydney Representative teams to the comp, strengthening it and creating a genuine alternate pathway for the players that slip through the under age systems for what ever reason. Not aligned to any SAFL club, but to ALL SAFL clubs in their zone. Might even generate some interest from the grass roots clubs!

    Makes perfect sense, the SAFL should have been left alone, and this should have been the model from day one, with the two AFL clubs and the AFL funding them.

    Not too late to do it and replace the 2 current licences that have done little for development and even less for egos I would suspect.

    This latest proposal for them to try and cherry pick players to prop them up as competitive teams, under the pretense that they are "helping develop players" won't fly, it's already creating more of a rift.

    Aside from the fact that the NEAFL has proven to be a dead end rather than a pathway to the AFL , the reason that the best players in Sydney do not play NEAFL, is due to their loyalty to their clubs.

  12. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by unconfuseme View Post
    I think it is quite clear that the current model has failed, as expected.

    With ZERO interest in NEAFL from any Sydney club outside of Hills and SU, and very little interest from within those clubs, to now try and force a sham permit system on the SAFL clubs will only serves to further insult and disenfranchise them from the concept.

    Swans have actually pushed for two academy style teams, Giants and Swans aligned, but for primarily u/23's and feeding from their SAFL clubs.

    Would effectively add two senior Sydney Representative teams to the comp, strengthening it and creating a genuine alternate pathway for the players that slip through the under age systems for what ever reason. Not aligned to any SAFL club, but to ALL SAFL clubs in their zone. Might even generate some interest from the grass roots clubs!

    Makes perfect sense, the SAFL should have been left alone, and this should have been the model from day one, with the two AFL clubs and the AFL funding them.

    Not too late to do it and replace the 2 current licences that have done little for development and even less for egos I would suspect.

    This latest proposal for them to try and cherry pick players to prop them up as competitive teams, under the pretense that they are "helping develop players" won't fly, it's already creating more of a rift.

    Aside from the fact that the NEAFL has proven to be a dead end rather than a pathway to the AFL , the reason that the best players in Sydney do not play NEAFL, is due to their loyalty to their clubs.
    Top Post

    The NEAFL is a dead-set dumb idea.

    It is an artificially constructed comp that costs a lot of money ,that could be better deployed elsewhere, into getting the NSW/QLD AFL teams a decent game of footy.

    In the meantime they have demeaned and lowered two comps (SFL and QAFL, though the QAFL is infinitely better equipped to deal with the NEAFL due to its greater strength) and created two little monsters in Sydney Uni and Baulko who now think that all the other clubs in Sydney are beneath them.

    Not sure about the academy concept though. I would imagine the academy kids come out of the system at about 16 or 17 and that they are co-aligned with their Sydney AFL clubs. By far the best system would be for the Swans and GWS to play in the SANFL or VFL and to have 6-8 locally contracted players in the SANFL club rosters. These players would either step up and become potential rookie draftees or would slip back into the SFL as far better players having been in the Swans/GWS systems. Realistically there are only 5-10 potential Rampes in Sydney football so this would provide all the pathway necessary.

    The amount of money that is being wasted on Sydney Uni and Baulko making up the numbers in this comp would be much better spent making the whole SFL pie bigger rather than just the Sydney Uni and Baulko pies.

    We have a two tier system in Sydney football now, the haves and the have nots and it is not healthy for the game.

    You cannot blame Sydney Uni and Baulko for looking after themselves but this is just another example of how the AFL just does not get this market

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