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Thread: 2015 academy discussion thread (with some FS thrown in for good measure)

  1. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09183305 View Post
    Quite possibly, but the club pretty much knew what they were getting given he's been in their system. If they didn't think he was worth the pick they used based on their intimate knowledge of him, they would have gone for someone else
    That's the dilemma. If they had decided that Hiscox was not worth a 2nd pick and allowed him to go to the bidding club, then the foundations of the academy would be rocked and a lot of confidence would be lost.

    Imagine a parent telling their kid for years that the Swans Academy is great and if your good enough you can AFL in your home state. On bidding day he then discovers that's he's going to Victoria because the club he idolised allowed him to go to Victoria. That would be a crisis for the academy!

  2. #14
    These kids go to the Academy because they want to play AFL football. Yes they would love to be picked by the Swans, but they if they can't they wouldn't knock back any other club. I'm sure players like Michael Dickson and Vahid Roser would even play for Collingwood if given the chance. And at the end of the day they just want to be given a chance just like any kid from East Fremantle, Norwood, Sale or Newcastle

  3. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying South View Post
    These kids go to the Academy because they want to play AFL football. Yes they would love to be picked by the Swans, but they if they can't they wouldn't knock back any other club. I'm sure players like Michael Dickson and Vahid Roser would even play for Collingwood if given the chance. And at the end of the day they just want to be given a chance just like any kid from East Fremantle, Norwood, Sale or Newcastle
    This^^^^
    Matt you are making arguments for arguments sake (though thankfully on topic) and what you say applies to every young player in every local club in every town across the country.
    I'm quite certain our club makes no promises to ANY of the academy players, not even Mills or Heeney and at the end of the day if a kid is only worth pick 45 and gets picked at 8 by a Collingwood or whatever, he's not going to give a tinkers toss, he's just going to be rapt that he ended up a first round draft pick. The club knows who's worth what and are not going to get suckered into playing a mugs game with academy players, we have no knowledge of what the coaches and recruiters see in Hiscox so you really can't say we have paid overs just because he was in the academy.

  4. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt80 View Post
    That's the dilemma. If they had decided that Hiscox was not worth a 2nd pick and allowed him to go to the bidding club, then the foundations of the academy would be rocked and a lot of confidence would be lost.

    Imagine a parent telling their kid for years that the Swans Academy is great and if your good enough you can AFL in your home state. On bidding day he then discovers that's he's going to Victoria because the club he idolised allowed him to go to Victoria. That would be a crisis for the academy!
    Good point Matt. The strength in the academy is that it encourages the NSW and Qld youth to make the jump from other sports (especially NRL and soccer) that would have allowed them to stay in their home state. Removing this incentive will have a negative impact on the academies. I just hope the Swans don't pay too much for their academy players.

  5. #17
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    The academies are a pathway to the AFL for NSW and Qld youngsters - they are not the only pathway, but they're very important. They should not be seen as a pathway solely to the Swans, Giants, Lions or Suns. Whilst we stump up the $$$'s to keep them running we should have first dibs on players, but in this era of professionalism players of all codes would know that they may need to be willing to relocate at any time.

    Also, there's nothing stopping a club trading a former academy player in future if that's deemed best for the club. Players would be aware of that if they're raised to be professionals, which is what the academies should be doing.

  6. #18
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    Interesting that the poll on the afl website asking, 'Should northern clubs retain their rights to Academy players?', is at the moment 63% 'Yes, they need them'!!

  7. #19
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    Alert, all RWOers visit the site and boost the percentage even higher!!

  8. #20
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    New proposed system.

    http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL...emfeedback.pdf

    If we want Mills and Dunkley it looks like we are going to have to trade players for some draft picks.

  9. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt80 View Post
    New proposed system.

    http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL...emfeedback.pdf

    If we want Mills and Dunkley it looks like we are going to have to trade players for some draft picks.
    Thanks for that. Interesting ... and it sucks! Swans should propose Collingwood develop an academy so they can try & develop their own gap toothed, mullet wearing little chicks of their own, then they might discourage this ridiculous Northern State bashing. What's the bet that when Collingwood have a whole bunch of FS potentials coming through at the same time, they want it changed back so they can get the lot of them?

  10. #22
    Veterans List Ludwig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt80 View Post
    New proposed system.

    http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL...emfeedback.pdf

    If we want Mills and Dunkley it looks like we are going to have to trade players for some draft picks.
    We may even have to trade players just to draft Mills and forget about Dunkley if it's strickly based on this points system.

    If someone bids pick 1 (2250 pts with 25% discsount) or pick 2 (1888 pts) and our first pick is #18, etc. then the total points we have available from all our picks is only 1726. So we potentially wouldn't have enough available to get either one.

    If you can give up every draft pick you have and still not be able to get an academy player that you put 8 years into, then something is not right. It appears that the system was specifically designed so we get shafted out of getting Mills and Dunkley.

    The AFL supplement showing the calculations for what it would have taken to get Heeney is distortion because it should have shown that we could not have gotten Heeney except for the FA compensation we got for Malceski. So in effect Heeney would have cost us all our draft picks plus Malceski and we couldn't have gotten either Hiscox or Davis.

    We'll have to wait to see what the final version is, but I think this one may be worth going to court over. It hardly seems worth continuing with the academy with this system. I think QBE has a good case as well, as do the parents of these kids who invested a lot to get them a local club. It cost $5 million dollars and pick 18 to get one player, Isaac Heeney. Talk about rorting the system.

    Maybe the 4 northern clubs should quit the AFL and start their own league. I'm getting sick of whole lot of them anyway.
    Last edited by Ludwig; 27th January 2015 at 08:55 PM.

  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    We may even have to trade players just to draft Mills and forget about Dunkley if it's strickly based on this points system.

    If someone bids pick 1 (2250 pts with 25% discsount) or pick 2 (1888 pts) and our first pick is #18, etc. then the total points we have available from all our picks is only 1726. So we potentially wouldn't have enough available to get either one.

    If you can give up every draft pick you have and still not be able to get an academy player that you put 8 years into, then something is not right. It appears that the system was specifically designed so we get shafted out of getting Mills and Dunkley.

    We'll have to wait to see what the final version is, but I think this one may be worth going to court over. It hardly seems worth continuing with the academy with this system. I think QBE has a good case as well, as do the parents of these kids who invested a lot to get them a local club. It cost $5 million dollars and pick 18 to get one player, Isaac Heeney. Talk about rorting the system.

    Maybe the 4 northern clubs should quit the AFL and start their own league. I'm getting sick of whole lot of them anyway.
    If you are short of points in one draft, you can make the points up in the next draft.

  12. #24
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    What a dogs breakfast of a proposed system! Talk about compkex and clearly aimed at screwing over the northern clubs pumping the $$$$ into player development.

    Seems the afl wants to ramp up the entertainment value of draft night by ramping up the potential for gamesmanship between teams.
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

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