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Thread: Changes for Round 3 V GWS.

  1. #49
    On the Rookie List Reggi's Avatar
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    Unfair to the team unfair to Mcglynn. He has a history of blowout seasons, not able to get properly fit. Better to getbit in the 2s

  2. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerman View Post
    I'm not as crazy about Mills as a lot of people seem to be - he seems to make a lot of errors and I question some of his decision making eg. picking off a teammate sandwiched between two opponents when you're kicking in might come off ok, but it's very risky.

    He needs more experience. The question is whether it is better for him to get it in the seniors or reserves. I would normally say seniors, but given it is his first year and we have other players who can fill that position better I'm happy to let him earn his spot just as guys like Tom Mitchell have had to do.
    His second game wasn't quite as good as his first but still had at least two beautiful kicks, one into the corridor to open the blues up, and the other off A step into our forward 50 to hit up a forward ( Buddy I think). He went at 72% in the first game, he's done some brilliant things and will only improve. If McVeigh was right to go then maybe you would consider dropping him but it would be pretty tough on him, I'd have him ahead of Robbo ( who was improved on the weekend admittedly )

  3. #51
    Veterans List Ludwig's Avatar
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    You know Mills is going to be a gun. It's more important to get a string of games into someone like Robinson to see how he develops. Robbo and Jake Lloyd both came through the 2012 draft and there wasn't that much between them in their first years. Jake was just ahead enough to get the call up when the opportunity was there. I wouldn't be surprised to Robbo track roughly the same as Lloyd if given the senior game opportunities, but chances are that he probably won't if we have a healthy list. He has a lot of good qualities including endurance and disposal skills. I'd like to see him become more physical on his attack of the ball and his tackling.

    I could say the same for Towers as well. He's improving and needs to string together some games where he sticks a few more tackles and hits those snaps on goal. He looks willing to do the physical stuff, but doesn't get enough out of his pace and athleticism.

    It may be worth the exercise to think of who you would pick to go out of the side if Macca, Reid and Rohan were all available. Not an easy one.

  4. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by aguy View Post
    I wasn't suggesting McVeigh would deliver imprecisely ( although he hasn't always been the best). I was saying that mills has been very good for only having played 2 games and senior games are much more beneficial for his development than NEAFL games.

    Personally I would replace robbo with McVeigh when he returns. Reid for towers. And then when Rohan finally is good he becomes depth for injuries and for the young guys including mills and hewett and robbo as they need to be rested. Of course that all assumes no injuries which as we know is unlikely. I think there will be some rotation of players throughout the Middle of the season amongst mills hewett robbo Reid and Rohan. Papley may need a rest at some stage too and rose would be the logical replacement for him there.
    Agree 100%. If/when Papley needs resting who will be the better replacement: McGlynn or Rose?

  5. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mug Punter View Post
    No changes for mine but Tippo needs to take on Mummy physically and I'd have him run with Mummy all day.
    It just occurred to me but I think both us and GWS have two of the better one-two ruck combinations in the AFL this year. With the demise of the sub rule, both clubs have quickly adjusted to what that means in terms of the ruck-forward.
    Today's a draft of your epitaph

  6. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    You know Mills is going to be a gun. It's more important to get a string of games into someone like Robinson to see how he develops. Robbo and Jake Lloyd both came through the 2012 draft and there wasn't that much between them in their first years. Jake was just ahead enough to get the call up when the opportunity was there. I wouldn't be surprised to Robbo track roughly the same as Lloyd if given the senior game opportunities, but chances are that he probably won't if we have a healthy list. He has a lot of good qualities including endurance and disposal skills. I'd like to see him become more physical on his attack of the ball and his tackling.

    I could say the same for Towers as well. He's improving and needs to string together some games where he sticks a few more tackles and hits those snaps on goal. He looks willing to do the physical stuff, but doesn't get enough out of his pace and athleticism.

    It may be worth the exercise to think of who you would pick to go out of the side if Macca, Reid and Rohan were all available. Not an easy one.
    I agree that at this stage it is really important to give Robbo, Towers and Hewett extended runs. For mine Hewett is pretty safe, he is just a very sound all round footballer and has taken to senior footy like a duck to water.

    Macca I'd be dropping Robbo reluctantly, maybe not a direct positional switch but you'd shuffle a bit. For mine if Robbo can get 10-12 senior games into him this year as injuries arise then his development will be tracking very nicely.

    Reid I'd be thinking Towers, even though I rate Towers.

    Rohan I'd keep in the twos, as I would McGlynn and Talia (when fit) until they could force their way back through either unbelievable form in the 2s, an injury or a player slipping form wise. Rohan has gone missing too many times for me, he was one of our worst in 2014 (I'm still so effing angry about that game) and he may well be first emergency for a while. I'm a fan of the gopher but for mine it's him or Papley and as long as Papley plays like he has been he is going nowhere.

    Reality is that we've had very few injuries to date and opportunities will open up for all these players though.

  7. #55
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    I don't understand the notion that borderline players should get senior games in preference to someone who we're pretty confident will be a gun. If Mills gets tired or injured, or loses out his spot on form to someone else, fair enough. But I don't understand why you would keep another player in the senior team at his expense just to give them an extended run at senior level if all other things are pretty much equal. Surely you want to get the experience into the kid you're pretty sure is going to be a long term senior player, not someone who might hang around on the fringes for a couple of years?

    Mills was eating up NEAFL level footy two seasons ago, as a player still a year out from being draft age. He's not going to learn much by playing more footy at that level. He's shown us glimpses of what he's capable of, and he's shown he's still getting used to the faster pace, increased pressure and lower margin for error at senior level. But he's the kind of player who's going to learn really quickly from every single error he makes, and I think you'll find his decision making and consistency of skill execution will improve rapidly as the season progresses.

  8. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    I don't understand the notion that borderline players should get senior games in preference to someone who we're pretty confident will be a gun. If Mills gets tired or injured, or loses out his spot on form to someone else, fair enough. But I don't understand why you would keep another player in the senior team at his expense just to give them an extended run at senior level if all other things are pretty much equal. Surely you want to get the experience into the kid you're pretty sure is going to be a long term senior player, not someone who might hang around on the fringes for a couple of years?

    Mills was eating up NEAFL level footy two seasons ago, as a player still a year out from being draft age. He's not going to learn much by playing more footy at that level. He's shown us glimpses of what he's capable of, and he's shown he's still getting used to the faster pace, increased pressure and lower margin for error at senior level. But he's the kind of player who's going to learn really quickly from every single error he makes, and I think you'll find his decision making and consistency of skill execution will improve rapidly as the season progresses.
    I am not sure that Mills will ever play NEAFL again to be honest.

    In terms of borderline players who are coming through I don't think you give away games but I do think as part of their development providing chunks of games is preferable to being in and out constantly. Sometimes there's not much you can do about it, it's simple maths and a player has to drop down, but in respect of not rushing back players (i.e. give McVeigh an extra week just to be sure or let McGlynn and Rohan fight for their spots through the twos) I think you can maybe help provide that block of games

  9. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mug Punter View Post
    I am not sure that Mills will ever play NEAFL again to be honest.

    In terms of borderline players who are coming through I don't think you give away games but I do think as part of their development providing chunks of games is preferable to being in and out constantly. Sometimes there's not much you can do about it, it's simple maths and a player has to drop down, but in respect of not rushing back players (i.e. give McVeigh an extra week just to be sure or let McGlynn and Rohan fight for their spots through the twos) I think you can maybe help provide that block of games
    I got the impression that some posters (a minority) were suggesting that, given a choice between Mills making way for McVeigh (when he's ready) and Robinson (for example) making way, the coaches should retain Robbo in the senior team because he needs more opportunity to prove whether he has what it takes. That's just topsy turvey to me.

    Having said that, Robinson has played some pretty solid football in the last two rounds. I think his game against Carlton was the best I've seen him play. The mark he took in the forward line before getting clobbered by a Bloos player (in what must have been a borderline reportable incident) was especially impressive. So while he's probably the 22nd player picked in the side right now, he's not played like it.

  10. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    I got the impression that some posters (a minority) were suggesting that, given a choice between Mills making way for McVeigh (when he's ready) and Robinson (for example) making way, the coaches should retain Robbo in the senior team because he needs more opportunity to prove whether he has what it takes. That's just topsy turvey to me.

    Having said that, Robinson has played some pretty solid football in the last two rounds. I think his game against Carlton was the best I've seen him play. The mark he took in the forward line before getting clobbered by a Bloos player (in what must have been a borderline reportable incident) was especially impressive. So while he's probably the 22nd player picked in the side right now, he's not played like it.
    I am pretty sure Horse won't be doing that, we don't give away games and I like that. In fact I think we sometimes hold players back even when they are ready just to make them appreciate it more when they get there. It seems to work and they get there as more balanced players and people - clearly some kids like Isaac and Callum you just have to play them but I like the longer term view we take to development.

  11. #59
    Veterans List Ludwig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mug Punter View Post
    In terms of borderline players who are coming through I don't think you give away games but I do think as part of their development providing chunks of games is preferable to being in and out constantly. Sometimes there's not much you can do about it, it's simple maths and a player has to drop down, but in respect of not rushing back players (i.e. give McVeigh an extra week just to be sure or let McGlynn and Rohan fight for their spots through the twos) I think you can maybe help provide that block of games
    I agree.

    I would be reluctant to use the term 'borderline' players to any of those that have played in our first 2 games this year. I would characterize them as developing players. We had 7 players with fewer than 20 games play on Sunday. Heeney and Mills are the recognized stars in the making, but success is often measured by how well that next level of players progress. I think we saw that Robinson, for example, is quite capable of playing at AFL level and I would like to know how big an upside he has.

    I wonder if those who argue that you always play your best 22 will refrain from bemoaning our lack of depth.

  12. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    I agree.

    I would be reluctant to use the term 'borderline' players to any of those that have played in our first 2 games this year. I would characterize them as developing players. We had 7 players with fewer than 20 games play on Sunday. Heeney and Mills are the recognized stars in the making, but success is often measured by how well that next level of players progress. I think we saw that Robinson, for example, is quite capable of playing at AFL level and I would like to know how big an upside he has.

    I wonder if those who argue that you always play your best 22 will refrain from bemoaning our lack of depth.
    I think you always play your best 22, except maybe if you have missed the finals and deliberately blood players. But at the same time there's certain selection strategies that you can use to try and prolong a block of games for a developing player, for instance I would think if it was backs to the walls stuff that Jarrad may have been rushed back this week but they now have the luxury to give an extra week. And if you have a couple of players that are fighting for selection, pretty much neck and neck re their relative merits, that the development needs might come into play at the selection table.

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