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Thread: How do clubs deal with misinformation?

  1. #1

    How do clubs deal with misinformation?

    It's been really interesting to watch the banter over the last few weeks around UNSW-ES, UTS, and in the last few days Auburn (the club I coach). Well done to Shaun with his simple answers to the questions about UNSW-ES and the sad news about the Village Green! I think it changed a few opinions.

    How do clubs generally deal with the misinformation that often circulates them? In an handful of posts my club has been accused of paying players, using an 'MMA style', being undeserving of a promotion and, implicitly, as getting financial and other support from AFL NSW/ACT.

    If I may indulge any interested in a response to these assertions:

    - We don't pay players, and never have. We try, where possible, to support our U18s players that have considerable costs associated with representative football. That's it. Anyone that suggests we pay players is misinformed. Most officials, including myself, do not get paid. Only a single assistant coach is given an honourarium for her time;

    - Last year's Div 2 Premiers were invited to be promoted to Premier Division and they declined.
    We were offered the promotion a week ago based on the numbers we currently have registered and have been getting to training, not because of special support. We asked the league in January, when Wollongong were relegated, if we could nominate two teams, as at that time our numbers were sufficient to have two. This request was declined, and we have lost several potential players in that time, as having 40+ players training when only 22 spots are available is difficult to sustain.
    Moreover, given that in the Prelims and GF the scores separating the three teams was never more than one straight kick, it doesn't seem to me that there is a significant difference between the teams, and the league is probably right in making the decision based upon numbers over grand final appearances;

    - We receive no support, financial or otherwise, from the league, beyond what any club receives;

    - Our players have a diverse ethnic make up, and while those of Lebanese descent would form the largest single group, they are not even the majority on their own. We give no special treatment to players or individuals based on their ethnic background, and I think we are relatively reflective of the ethnic mix of the Auburn area;

    - We take on-field discipline very seriously, and certainly do not promote or condone illegal play of any kind, especially not fighting.

    I'm happy to answer any questions that those that posted in the previous thread have about our club, but I don't anticipate there to be much genuine interest when the real story doesn't involve buckets of cash from the league, secret UFC training sessions or opportunities to justify prejudice.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by CKunde View Post
    In an handful of posts my club has been accused of paying players, using an 'MMA style',

    AND

    - We take on-field discipline very seriously, and certainly do not promote or condone illegal play of any kind, especially not fighting.
    I think you'll find these comments will treated with the disdain they deserve....

    Sure your girls are fine and good luck with then but your men's team was an absolute disgrace, and that's was the comments were directed at....

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Mug Punter View Post
    I think you'll find these comments will treated with the disdain they deserve....

    Sure your girls are fine and good luck with then but your men's team was an absolute disgrace, and that's was the comments were directed at....
    Mate, herein is a wonderful example of the misinformation.

    The men's team wanted to fold the women's team in mid 2012.

    The women's team were forced to form their own seperate club, with no resources other than 23 players and 1 volunteer.

    I don't blame you for not being aware of this, as even Auburn Council took a few months to understand it (given they sent us the unpaid men's team bills in 2013, assuming we were the same club).

    The men's club completely folded at the end of 2012 as far as I know, though I stopped talking to all involved well before that.

    So, with all due respect Mug, comments about players getting offered payments, lebo girls being the poster girls of the AFL, using MMA style 'like the mens' and being unfairly promoted to Prem Div are not directed at this non existent entity, they are directed at my players.

    My players have had to deal with the crap brought on by blokes who, by and large, wanted them to fold and not play footy, for years now. It's not fair, plain and simple.

    Hate on the non existent men's team all you want. The separate women's club doesn't deserve vicarious criticism (at best) or the racism (at worst).

  4. #4
    This is the way to deal with misinformation - address it! Good for you CK.

    I always find it interesting that the AFL are continually bagged in this forum, but no one seems to bother addressing it or defending themselves ... at least they are honest on that front!

    Just a couple of questions/points;

    Personally, I do not care if SAFL clubs pay players or not ... if a club can generate sufficient funds without compromising their culture, good for them!

    So far as AFL support is concerned ...

    Do The Auburn Giants receive anything from The GWS Giants?
    If not, why not, and just what was the "agreement" all about, that was entered into in 2014 that meant sacking the Tigers emblem?
    Whilst Auburn Giants receive nothing from the league, isn't GWS funded by the AFL?
    Are we to believe there is no financial benefit from being "Giants" (which is the Manly position incidentally!)?

    Ethnicity and/or religion should not be an issue, unless the club is built along specific lines and is not inclusive of all. In saying that, I expect that a lot of players who might otherwise play for Auburn, and even live in Auburn, might gravitate to neighbouring clubs by choice ... it is what it is! ... as you say, if the club is representative of the ethnic mix of the Auburn area, it would be the most diverse of any club in any Australian Football league in the country.

    On field behaviour is all part of a club culture. Players do not go head hunting unless they believe that is what is expected, and the coach and supporters are screaming for them to "kill him!". Most people who have commented on here about the Auburn "playing style" seem to be talking from their own experience, but I'm unsure how recent those experiences are? Great to see that you have developed your coaching style under a great man like Chris Hughes ... I could not imagine him condoning anything but disciplined conduct on and off the field.

    If that is what you are bringing to the Auburn Giants CK, and the club embraces that culture, then they should be welcomed and encouraged as part of the SAFL community without question.

  5. #5
    Great questions, mate. They come up often and I'm happy to answer them.
    Quote Originally Posted by unconfuseme View Post
    This is the way to deal with misinformation - address it! Good for you CK.
    Do The Auburn Giants receive anything from The GWS Giants?
    In terms of financial, no. We received a single grant of around $3000 towards our new Giants apparel in 2014. We have received no further financial support.

    We get by and large the same coach/player visits as any Western Sydney club (to my knowledge). We have had two coach visits and two player visits to training in the last two years (one of each per year).

    This year we got a lot of assistance to generate some media for two of our U18 players we are trying to help build a profile for. One is an U18 All Australian, and the other is part of the Talent Program.

    We also get a game at the Main Arena (Spotless, it is now called), but this is not guaranteed each year.
    Quote Originally Posted by unconfuseme View Post
    If not, why not, and just what was the "agreement" all about, that was entered into in 2014 that meant sacking the Tigers emblem?
    There were a few points from our end behind the shift. One, a better image in Western Sydney. Two, a separation from the misplaced joint history with the Auburn Tigers. Three, the opportunity to be linked to GWS conceptually. I think all of these are solid reasons, and even if we did receive financial support, these would still be greater value.

    Quote Originally Posted by unconfuseme View Post
    Are we to believe there is no financial benefit from being "Giants" (which is the Manly position incidentally!)?
    I can't talk for Manly, but we receive no financial benefit aside from the one off grant I referred to above. Hand on heart, we get no money from GWS or the AFL.
    For completeness, I can advise that we have applied for and may be successful in getting a Jim Stynes grant, which is administered by the AFL, but that is all.

    Quote Originally Posted by unconfuseme View Post
    Ethnicity and/or religion should not be an issue, unless the club is built along specific lines and is not inclusive of all. In saying that, I expect that a lot of players who might otherwise play for Auburn, and even live in Auburn, might gravitate to neighbouring clubs by choice ... it is what it is! ... as you say, if the club is representative of the ethnic mix of the Auburn area, it would be the most diverse of any club in any Australian Football league in the country.
    And I think we probably are. Our current captain is Macedonian/Greek (she is diverse enough herself). Looking at the registrations now, we have Lebanese (obviously), Chinese, Polynesian, Anglo-Saxon, Croatian, Macedonian/Green, and other Middle-Eastern ethnic groups. We are a very, very diverse group.

    In the last 12 months we have been considerably more successful in attracting players from the local area that were playing for other clubs. This seems to have been primarily due to the misconception that we are a 'Muslim only' club. We certainly are not. We do obviously make allowances for Islamic rules (e.g., lighter training during Ramadan) and there are no frothies after games in the changerooms, but there are just as many non-Muslim players as Muslim, perhaps more of the former.

    Quote Originally Posted by unconfuseme View Post
    If that is what you are bringing to the Auburn Giants CK, and the club embraces that culture, then they should be welcomed and encouraged as part of the SAFL community without question.
    Thanks, mate. Very kind indeed. I think the change in on-field results over the last couple years and the expansion of our relationships with other clubs show it to be working.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CKunde View Post
    How do clubs generally deal with the misinformation that often circulates them?
    Easy, you come in here and refute the same accusations about once every three months!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by CKunde View Post
    The men's team wanted to fold the women's team in mid 2012.

    The women's team were forced to form their own seperate club, with no resources other than 23 players and 1 volunteer.
    Can you explain why?

    Quote Originally Posted by CKunde View Post
    lebo girls being the poster girls of the AFL,
    Are they not? As I mentioned earlier I am the president of Auburn Primary Schools Sports Association so I am familiar with the area and the problems we face in regards to getting people (for me kids) into organised sporting competitions in particular girls/women. So it is a great thing. But honestly, I reckon I see Auburn Giants in the media at least twice a year. I have never seen any other womens team in Sydney in the media. There's what 16 womens teams? Surely some other clubs have volunteers doing just as great things.

    By your own statement, "Our players have a diverse ethnic make up, and while those of Lebanese descent would form the largest single group, they are not even the majority on their own", yet almost every single picture in the media of Auburn Giants is made up of only women wearing head scarfs. Do you honestly think you don't get media coverage because of the ethnic make up?

    Also interested in uconfuseme's question of why become Giants if GWS didn't do anything for you....

    Lastly, I honestly didn't realise you weren't affiliated with the mens club. I unfortunately had to play them 4 times over the years and it was never a good thing. Thanks for clearing that up.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by saviour01 View Post
    Can you explain why?
    I can only comment on what I was personally involved in. There was an EGM for the club (when men's and women's were one club) in the middle of 2012, facilitated by MG (who I'm sure would be happy to witness), to help sort out the club going forward. The majority of the men's players that attended did not want the women's team to exist going forward. I'm not sure there was a single reason 'why' these players did not want a women's team.

    I was asked to attend by some of the women's players to present an alternative proposal for the club's future, which included the women's team, but this was voted down on the second run (first vote was 50/50, so we needed to do a re-vote).

    I then had nothing to do with the women's club, aside from sporadic advice, until April 2014.


    Quote Originally Posted by saviour01 View Post
    Are they not? As I mentioned earlier I am the president of Auburn Primary Schools Sports Association so I am familiar with the area and the problems we face in regards to getting people (for me kids) into organised sporting competitions in particular girls/women. So it is a great thing. But honestly, I reckon I see Auburn Giants in the media at least twice a year. I have never seen any other womens team in Sydney in the media. There's what 16 womens teams? Surely some other clubs have volunteers doing just as great things.
    I reckon twice a year is very conservative. I reckon we are probably in significant articles a bit more.
    I do think that there isn't enough media given to other clubs, but that's more about what sells papers than anything we do.

    Quote Originally Posted by saviour01 View Post
    By your own statement, "Our players have a diverse ethnic make up, and while those of Lebanese descent would form the largest single group, they are not even the majority on their own", yet almost every single picture in the media of Auburn Giants is made up of only women wearing head scarfs. Do you honestly think you don't get media coverage because of the ethnic make up?
    We get media coverage because of the ethnic make-up, no doubt. But look at the Daily Telegraph and GWS articles done in February about Angela Priftis and Haneen Zreika. Neither wear headscarves, and one isn't Muslim or Lebanese.

    Quote Originally Posted by saviour01 View Post
    Also interested in uconfuseme's question of why become Giants if GWS didn't do anything for you....

    Lastly, I honestly didn't realise you weren't affiliated with the mens club. I unfortunately had to play them 4 times over the years and it was never a good thing. Thanks for clearing that up.
    As I've answered above, we get benefits that aren't financial, the very least of these an opportunity to start our own history, which is something we are only just starting to do. Thankfully, it does seem to be progressively making inroads.

  9. #9
    Fair enough. All good.

  10. #10
    Great post CKundle. I think many people did not know that the Auburn Giants Women's team was no longer affiliated with the Auburn Tigers Men's team.

    Almost all of the negative remarks were directed at the Auburn Tigers Men's team.

    I was only reading the Telegraph yesterday where your co-founder was spruking investment in Western Sydney.

    Great to see AFL being enjoyed by many women in the Auburn area.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Shannon View Post
    Great post CKundle. I think many people did not know that the Auburn Giants Women's team was no longer affiliated with the Auburn Tigers Men's team.

    Almost all of the negative remarks were directed at the Auburn Tigers Men's team.

    I was only reading the Telegraph yesterday where your co-founder was spruking investment in Western Sydney.

    Great to see AFL being enjoyed by many women in the Auburn area.

    I find it ironic Luke Shannon that your commenting on a post regarding misinformation after last weeks effort !!
    Last edited by Hamstrings77; 12th April 2016 at 08:45 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamstrings77 View Post
    I find it ironic Luke Shannon that your commenting on a post regarding misinformation after last weeks effort !!
    What misinformation is that?

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