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Thread: A tale of 2 Clubs and the future of AFL in Sydney

  1. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Freedman View Post
    More than happy to stand corrected.
    I've been at most committee meetings over the past few years and seen all the treasurers reports... 100% not paying players. I have heard of 2 players getting a job through the club over the 5 or 6 years I have been involved (1 being a 19s, 1 being a prems player) but as I found out on here a few months ago that is perfectly ok (was it tara who said they had done it for over 30 players over the years, ECE and most other clubs do it too). Tim or someone did say a few years ago Mudgey promised Karl cash which he never got. But he is back this year so I doubt he would come back if he got burnt.

    Like 90% of our prems players have come through our system anyway and everyone still pays rego.

    Im personally not against paying players (anyone looking for a fat late 20's bloke? I'll gladly take some cash), but a few of my mates did say when they played at Balmain all those years ago it was a culture of turning up, playing, collecting your money then going home. Sure buying a premiership looks good, but you lose everyone when the cash runs out and you are back to square one. Community clubs with home ground players is sustainable and can win flags as we saw Penno doing.

  2. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by andreww1 View Post
    The paying of players is an interesting and somewhat controversial topic within Sydney AFL and many other leagues. We don't pay players but we don't pass judgement on clubs that do, as long as they can afford it.

    The ultimate test would be if a club got a once off gift of say $500k how would they spend it?
    Many I expect would use a big chunk to buy a Prem Div title. But our attitude is what's the point of that? Premierships are soon forgotten and nothing lasting has been created.
    If we got $500k I could guarantee that we would spend it on facilities and equipment, coaching and development, club promotion, and investing it so we got a regular revenue stream to cover as many annual operating costs as possible.
    What would other clubs do with it?
    New footies & the best silly sunday ever ....

    L Shannon its time to stop. You've had your fun.

  3. #39
    Well retired, still sore Pekay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreww1 View Post
    The paying of players is an interesting and somewhat controversial topic within Sydney AFL and many other leagues. We don't pay players but we don't pass judgement on clubs that do, as long as they can afford it.

    The ultimate test would be if a club got a once off gift of say $500k how would they spend it?
    Many I expect would use a big chunk to buy a Prem Div title. But our attitude is what's the point of that? Premierships are soon forgotten and nothing lasting has been created.
    If we got $500k I could guarantee that we would spend it on facilities and equipment, coaching and development, club promotion, and investing it so we got a regular revenue stream to cover as many annual operating costs as possible.
    What would other clubs do with it?
    $500k worth of scratchies. Next question.

  4. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by saviour01 View Post
    was it tara who said they had done it for over 30 players over the years
    Correct Saviour. I have employed a number of people at the club. They were already there though. If I am in a position to offer a role to someone to entice them to the club I will. I am currently looking for corporate receptionist and have the feelers out around our club - I also need a finance manager but dont have anyone in that mould at the club presently. Over the years Ive had resumes from phelan medalists and premier div premiership players come across my desk - none of whom had the requirements for the roles bar one and I let him know he'd have to give up weekends for the role.

  5. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by ZaccyJ View Post
    Yes it is U/19s, but no it hasn't changed. Same case at Randwick - can't have an U/19s as it would apparently impact UNSW numbers.

    I don't know who Luke Shannon is - definitely not his real name, and his involvement in the Bats is questionable at best. Though really highlights how quick you all are to jump on the hate.
    Zaccy, I have no idea who this guy is, but he represents himself as a spokesperson for the Bats, so a reply has to be expected.

    Whilst I admire his energy, you only have to read his posts to understand the responses he is going to get!

    He has a very limited understanding or knowledge of the recent history of Sydney AFL "established powers like Balmain and Wollongong" ... what?

    He also has no understanding of the culture that exists outside of Bondi, claiming that the Bats could be "an attractive proposition for many young players from suburban clubs" ... an attitude that is not limited to one uni Club, to be fair! ... The fact is that most suburban clubs who do the hard yards, and work with a their junior clubs, will elicit a strong loyalty from their young players, unless they want to play for money, or they aspire to higher honors ... I don't think the Bats are offering those pathways at this point in time, and neither did Balmain at the height of their "Super Powers"!

    So I'm sorry, there is no hate involved, just being pragmatic when I say he comes across as a pretentious, blow-in prig ... wish him and the club well, but don't talk @@@@.

  6. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Pekay View Post
    $500k worth of scratchies. Next question.
    ... to win two free $2 tickets!

  7. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Shannon View Post
    Wow. I'm assuming your default attitude is

    - Any Sydney AFL player that did not come up through the junior Sydney AFL system is a "pretentious blow in prig".

    - Any person who lives in the Eastern Suburbs is a pretentious "yuppie".

    - Any white collar professional who works in the CBD must be a wanker.

    I'm dissapointed that in 2016 people can have such a hard line attitude to a section of the community.

    I understand that strong Sydney AFL suburban clubs have an extensive feeder network of juniors that bolsters them. Clubs such as St George, ECE, North Shore, Pennant Hills, Manly and the University of NSW / East Sydney are very much built on the junior network.

    The Bats can't build on a junior network. The Easten Suburbs have great numbers at Auskick level. Junior Eastern Suburbs clubs such as Easts, Moore Park Tigers and the Maroubra Saints have very strong Auskick programs. The problem is that once these kids get older they attend private schools who encourage them to play Rugby and force them to play Saturday sport. This decimates football from the U9s and up.

    The Bats have attempted to start an U18 team but the AFL have told them that in doing so we would only hurt the junior networks of other clubs such as Easts or Sydney Uni.

    Sydney Uni are are in a nice position as they are fed by strong junior clubs such as the Glebe Greyhounds, Newtown Swans, Concord, and Drummoyne.

    Without being fed by juniors the Bats rely on Expats from Adelaide, Melbourne, Perth and Ireland, students from UTS and some people from from the East who want to play AFL and want to reunite with the game after doing their time in private schools.

    I think the fact that the Bats numbers have always been high demonstrates that we are doing something right. We are engaging people in the game who live in our area.

    The Bats from 2001- 2002 were beaten regularly at senior level. In there first three seasons there 3rd grade team still secured two premierships. In 2003 we had Roger Moten come on as senior coach who lifted the onfield standards across the club. We became very competive at senior level and dominated the Sydney AFL amateur division along with Manly, Sydney Uni and to a lesser extend the Southern Sharks.

    We then turned our ambition to the premier division and the Bats committee worked tirelessly to find a premier league venue as Trumper was deemed not to have the appropriate size.

    The committee worked really hard for two years to secure Waverley Oval as a venue. Having done that we now have a premier division team.

    We now have Nick Fosdike as senior coach who is building a stronger premier division outfit. Hopefully the Bats can have a finals run at premier division level.

    When it comes to the Bats being "party boys" I don't think we are any different to any other clubs. What is the point of playing amateur sport if not accompanied by a strong social scene. All clubs have there sponsored social pubs and enjoy each other's company. The difference with the Bats is that there social pub is located in close proximity to the desired Sydney party zones of Paddington, Bondi and Kings Cross. I'm sure there are groups of players from suburban clubs who used to get together and jump on a train to party their Saturday night in Kings Cross. The Bats could jump in a 10 minute cab to Kings Cross.

    Who should guys who play amateur sport not party hard. All clubs party!

    Apologies for taking up people's time. I love my Bats and feel that the Sydney AFL landscape is dismissive of us in many ways. We have come along way and only want to keep improving.
    For a bloke with two first names these short stories make for some quality banter!

  8. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by unconfuseme View Post
    Zaccy, I have no idea who this guy is, but he represents himself as a spokesperson for the Bats, so a reply has to be expected.

    Whilst I admire his energy, you only have to read his posts to understand the responses he is going to get!

    He has a very limited understanding or knowledge of the recent history of Sydney AFL "established powers like Balmain and Wollongong" ... what?

    He also has no understanding of the culture that exists outside of Bondi, claiming that the Bats could be "an attractive proposition for many young players from suburban clubs" ... an attitude that is not limited to one uni Club, to be fair! ... The fact is that most suburban clubs who do the hard yards, and work with a their junior clubs, will elicit a strong loyalty from their young players, unless they want to play for money, or they aspire to higher honors ... I don't think the Bats are offering those pathways at this point in time, and neither did Balmain at the height of their "Super Powers"!

    So I'm sorry, there is no hate involved, just being pragmatic when I say he comes across as a pretentious, blow-in prig ... wish him and the club well, but don't talk @@@@.
    Hi guys.

    Whilst I love the Bats and have been involved in the club, I'm not a spokesmen for the Bats. The role of spokesman resides with a member of the Bats committee. That's not me. I'm just a poster with opinions just like most of us here.

    I may have mucked up the sentence on AFL Sydney Superpowers. I think of established AFL Sydney Superpowers as ECE, Sydney Uni, Pennant Hills, St George, UNSW East Sydney, North Shore and now Manly.

    The Bats are a "challenger brand" and need to convert lower level success into premier division success.

    It's really hard to find growth in the Eastern Suburbs for U19. There are many students at Scots, Cranbrook and Waverley Collage who have been through the Auskick program. The problem occurs when these boys play Saturday sport and the Schools push them into Rugby.

    Waverley College now have AFL, which is immense and will grow the game. Scots and Cranbrook need to let AFL into their programs but won't do it. The AFL has offered good incentives to these schools but to no avail. It must be remembered that Easts have such as amazing Auskick program that they close out enrolments each year and turn kids away. These kids from Auskick at Easts are not getting the AFL pathway due to the private school resistance to the AFL game.

  9. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Shannon View Post
    Wow. I'm assuming your default attitude is:

    - Any Sydney AFL player that did not come up through the junior Sydney AFL system is a "pretentious blow in prig".

    - Any person who lives in the Eastern Suburbs is a pretentious "yuppie".

    - Any white collar professional who works in the CBD must be a wanker.

    I'm dissapointed that in 2016 people can have such a hard line attitude to a section of the community.

    I understand that strong Sydney AFL suburban clubs have an extensive feeder network of juniors that bolsters them. Clubs such as St George, ECE, North Shore, Pennant Hills, Manly and the University of NSW / East Sydney are very much built on the junior network.

    The Bats can't build on a junior network. The Easten Suburbs have great numbers at Auskick level. Junior Eastern Suburbs clubs such as Easts, Moore Park Tigers and the Maroubra Saints have very strong Auskick programs. The problem is that once these kids get older they attend private schools who encourage them to play Rugby and force them to play Saturday sport. This decimates football from the U9s and up.

    The Bats have attempted to start an U18 team but the AFL have told them that in doing so we would only hurt the junior networks of other clubs such as Easts or Sydney Uni.

    Sydney Uni are are in a nice position as they are fed by strong junior clubs such as the Glebe Greyhounds, Newtown Swans, Concord, and Drummoyne.

    Without being fed by juniors the Bats rely on Expats from Adelaide, Melbourne, Perth and Ireland, students from UTS and some people from from the East who want to play AFL and want to reunite with the game after doing their time in private schools.

    I think the fact that the Bats numbers have always been high demonstrates that we are doing something right. We are engaging people in the game who live in our area.

    The Bats from 2001- 2002 were beaten regularly at senior level. In there first three seasons there 3rd grade team still secured two premierships. In 2003 we had Roger Moten come on as senior coach who lifted the onfield standards across the club. We became very competive at senior level and dominated the Sydney AFL amateur division along with Manly, Sydney Uni and to a lesser extend the Southern Sharks.

    We then turned our ambition to the premier division and the Bats committee worked tirelessly to find a premier league venue as Trumper was deemed not to have the appropriate size.

    The committee worked really hard for two years to secure Waverley Oval as a venue. Having done that we now have a premier division team.

    We now have Nick Fosdike as senior coach who is building a stronger premier division outfit. Hopefully the Bats can have a finals run at premier division level.

    When it comes to the Bats being "party boys" I don't think we are any different to any other clubs. What is the point of playing amateur sport if not accompanied by a strong social scene. All clubs have there sponsored social pubs and enjoy each other's company. The difference with the Bats is that there social pub is located in close proximity to the desired Sydney party zones of Paddington, Bondi and Kings Cross. I'm sure there are groups of players from suburban clubs who used to get together and jump on a train to party their Saturday night in Kings Cross. The Bats could jump in a 10 minute cab to Kings Cross.

    Who should guys who play amateur sport not party hard. All clubs party!

    Apologies for taking up people's time. I love my Bats and feel that the Sydney AFL landscape is dismissive of us in many ways. We have come along way and only want to keep improving.
    Great post Luke and may I say you are a breath of fresh air to this forum, if only for the fact that I seem to be getting less brickbats thrown my way these days.....

    Re UTS, I had a bit of insight into the foundation of your club and you can be rightly proud of your achievements in such a relatively short period of time. It's absolutely remarkable actually.

    You started as an idea with very little support from the NSWAFL and were instrumental in getting the lower divisions up and running which was the forerunner to the divisionalisation model which ahs helped grow the game. You have helped establish Waverley as an A grade AFL venue. Just an idea though, how about returning the favour to clubs that helped you up and running by getting Erskineville Oval back as an AFL venue with a re-established Newtown AFL team? That would be a truly great day to see the bloodstained angels again in Sydney football.

    You've tapped a market without cannibalising or encroaching on other clubs and clearly you are doing something right there. You haven't quite got the results at PD level yet but the weight of numbers will ultimately win out, they always do.

    I like the amateurs ethos you bring to the game in Sydney. It may not be everyone's cup of tea (myself included to an extent) but I'd love to see the "College Boy Model" take hold in Sydney over time as the private schools get AFL programmes up and running. An Old Ignatians AFC would be a start.

    Keep up the good work and congratulations for providing a great home away from home for interstate footballers in Sydney

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