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Thread: Rnd.12 Match Day Thread. GWS V Sydney. 4.40pm at Spotless.

  1. #265
    well finally back online to have a chat

    i felt that the GWS team showed every sign of the talent that it posses and quite frankly their ability off the wings and HBFs is scary in speed and kick

    Shaw, Williams, Wilson are seriously quick counter attack players

    combined with the kicking of Shiels, Kelly and Lachie there is no doubt they can kick the ball as good as any team in the comp on the counter

    for me we don't have the speed nor penetrating kick in the same numbers as the GWS Giants

    But I'm not saying we can't get a game on our terms against the Giants..........yes out classed we were on the weekend .........they beat us in pressure on the ball in the middle and up front and counter punch is as sharp as a Muels hit to the head.

    I do believe though we can hunt as good as any team in the comp on our day and meet us at your peril on that day..........The Giants could go all the way and they have the squad to do that now....cant wait for the finals
    "be tough, only when it gets tough"


  2. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie.Gerald View Post
    well finally back online to have a chat

    i felt that the GWS team showed every sign of the talent that it posses and quite frankly their ability off the wings and HBFs is scary in speed and kick

    Shaw, Williams, Wilson are seriously quick counter attack players

    combined with the kicking of Shiels, Kelly and Lachie there is no doubt they can kick the ball as good as any team in the comp on the counter

    for me we don't have the speed nor penetrating kick in the same numbers as the GWS Giants

    But I'm not saying we can't get a game on our terms against the Giants..........yes out classed we were on the weekend .........they beat us in pressure on the ball in the middle and up front and counter punch is as sharp as a Muels hit to the head.

    I do believe though we can hunt as good as any team in the comp on our day and meet us at your peril on that day..........The Giants could go all the way and they have the squad to do that now....cant wait for the finals
    In terms of talent and ability I reckon the Giants are more than ready.

    But they seem to freeze when they play in front of a big vociferous away crowd with virtually zero fans.

    It must be a truly surreal feeling and it will only be amplified x 20 for a Grand Final at the G. My bet is there'd be more GWS Giants consumers in the Corporate Boxes, business twats that have latched onto it as a plaything, than there would be in the crowd. Unless the AFL ship them down there and pay for their trip. The AFL GF weekend is a $1,000 minimum experience per person when you add it all up, I can't see too many of those happy clappers from Sunday making the trek though I'm sure Mr Smirk Waugh will find a way to get photographed, media whore that he is....

    Yeah I know that was a cheap shot but I think the fact they'll barley have any support at te biggest game of the year would be the most unimaginable experience for a player. They've grown up all their life dreaming of this day and when they get out there nobody, and I mean nobody, cheers for them.

    Even worse, what about if they win and there's nobody to cheer and they get booed? I'd hate to see that but I can see the anti-Giants hysteria in Melbourne becoming totally extreme.

    It will also, I might add, be an absolute embarrassment for the AFL

  3. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by graemed View Post
    As loathe as I am to reply to any of your posts, as they give you oxygen, I must say this tops the list of inane comments.
    If you'd ever been to any of these smaller RIVERINA/WAGGA WAGGA towns then you'd know how much sport and Australian Rules Football, in particular, means to the communities.
    +1

    And the Academy system was not designed to fill the Northern States with local kids, though that is an obvious nice little side benefit, especially with the loss of COLA and increased go home factor as a result.

    The reason for the academy system is simple. The AFL needed to find roughly an extra 100 players of AFL quality with GWS and the Suns' inclusion. If they don't the standard of the comp drops and that's bad for all concerned. The only way that can happen is from new markets and based on an average list life of four years that means an extra 25 AFL quality draftees every year.

    These kids won't come from existing football states and whilst a few might come from NSW and QLD without academies they would be few and far between given the draft histories of these states. And Ireland, Texas or NZ won't cut it. Clearly the states with nearly 50% of our national population needed to grow more players and the only way to do that was to provide a pathway from these states to local teams. As we all know talented kids usually choose between sports (see Mills and Heeney as prime examples) and if a kid in Brisbane wants to throw away rugby league and the Broncos then he at least wants a chance of playing for his local team.

  4. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    It seems some swans supporters are more worried about the giants, than the giants are about the swans.

    All this worrying about what Melbourne will think is pathetic. The bears played finals in Melbourne, and the AFL survived. Crowds were ok. We have had two non-vic sides play in a grand final. Crowd was ok. Good teams attract fans whether they support them or not.

    All the Giants need to worry about is maximizing attendances, sponsorship, revenue in Western Sydney and Canberra.

    If the Giants are to become a 4 premiership dynasty, the swans had better not go into ladder free fall, otherwise.....
    One of your more cogent posts, Barry. Some of these other whiners and conspiracists are making you sound ok.

    I think the reaction to this loss and the arrival of GWS is overblown. I think the Swans are travelling well (despite this result and the losses against the Crows and Tigers and so-so performance against the Lions) and I am really enjoying this season. So much more to feel good about than last year! I think the Giants are also going well and good on them, I wish them well. I think they are exciting to watch and will consider getting a 3 game membership for them. If the Dogs or Crows were based equally nearby I would consider doing the same for their teams and I wish them well too. This was a game won by the better team on the day, regardless of umpiring.

    Likewise, it has to be ok for our players to sometimes have a bad game or not all be among the elite of the competition. Sometimes a player may even have a bad season or go on a year too long or whatever but it pays to remember their overall contribution. Sometimes there will be good explanations for a player having an off game that we don't know about e.g. an injury or family misfortune etc. That said, I still think it's fair enough to criticise and call out a poor performance or say a player has gone on too long or is soft; I just wish people would keep a bit more perspective and context when they do it. I don't enjoy reading reams of over-the-top negative posting that seems plain dumb and ill-considered. I do enjoy the analysis, anecdote and humour that so many others bring to this forum.

  5. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Mug Punter View Post
    +1

    And the Academy system was not designed to fill the Northern States with local kids, though that is an obvious nice little side benefit, especially with the loss of COLA and increased go home factor as a result.
    There are two motivations for the academies. The primary one that the swans, giants, suns and lions have is to fill their teams with local players to overcome all the problems of homesick players (losing players, and having to pay overs). Neither of those clubs have any interest in developing players for other clubs (ie, the greater good argument). The swans even suggested they go exclusively from the academy and be excluded from the national draft at one stage.

    The secondary one is from the AFL which have a greater-good angle, and they leverage the (now illusional) path to swans, etc as the carrot.
    Swans, etc have counter-leveraged this angle to get the AFL to fund it. Hence it gets murky.

    If the swans spent a single cent converting a kid bound for rugby league to AFL, and then he went and played for Collingwood, I'd be seriously questioning how the club can justify that.

  6. #270
    Regular in the Side crackedactor's Avatar
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    Very good summary of the situation, particularly the last paragraph. But other clubs that show their jealousy towards the academies also forget the many players that the Swans/Suns etc that have put a lot of time and effort into, but never make the top grade. Of course they are never talked about.

  7. #271
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    I don't suppose any of us knows definitively how the AFL prioritises the motivations for the academies, but my take on it was that the first and foremost objective was to create a development pathway for AFL in NSW and Queensland, not just to increase the number of elite players but to provide a broad opportunity for athletically talented juniors to get access to better coaching. Across the four academies, there are probably close to a thousand youngsters involved in the programmes at any one time.

    Having decided that use of the four northern clubs' brands and resources to run the academies, they obviously need to motivate those four clubs, so priority access at the draft table I think is a necessary evil. Sure, increasing the percentage of local talent on the lists is beneficial but I don't know that it was the overarching motivation for the academies. I do think that the northern clubs face challenges in retaining young players against the homesick factor that are greater than those faced by other clubs, but it is something that all clubs do have to work hard on. The Swans suffered badly in the 1990s, with the loss of players like Grant, Rocca, Gaspar (not to homesickness but just because he wanted to play in football heartland), O'Farrell. But since then, their rate of loss of players back to their home state is no higher than pretty much every club (and lower than clubs like Adelaide). It helps when a club is well-run and has earned a high level of respectability for both its on-field and off-field activities. The Lions' recent problems in retaining younger interstate players are in part due to the "homesick" factor but almost certainly have more to do with being down in the doldrums for so long on-field, and having worse than average facilities.

  8. #272
    I don't actually mind the current academy draft bidding system. It help ensure fair value is paid in picks for players. It should also illiminate the riverina as a problem because if it does produce a lot pf quality other club can bid for them

  9. #273
    Goodesgoodesgoodesgoodes! Industrial Fan's Avatar
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    Agreed. The 25% discount is neither here nor there either given the picks all have nominal points values.

  10. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    I don't suppose any of us knows definitively how the AFL prioritises the motivations for the academies, but my take on it was that the first and foremost objective was to create a development pathway for AFL in NSW and Queensland, not just to increase the number of elite players but to provide a broad opportunity for athletically talented juniors to get access to better coaching. Across the four academies, there are probably close to a thousand youngsters involved in the programmes at any one time.
    The swans want a pathway to the swans. Swans are acting in self interest, which is exactly as they should.

    Having decided that use of the four northern clubs' brands and resources to run the academies, they obviously need to motivate those four clubs, so priority access at the draft table I think is a necessary evil. Sure, increasing the percentage of local talent on the lists is beneficial but I don't know that it was the overarching motivation for the academies. I do think that the northern clubs face challenges in retaining young players against the homesick factor that are greater than those faced by other clubs, but it is something that all clubs do have to work hard on. The Swans suffered badly in the 1990s, with the loss of players like Grant, Rocca, Gaspar (not to homesickness but just because he wanted to play in football heartland), O'Farrell. But since then, their rate of loss of players back to their home state is no higher than pretty much every club (and lower than clubs like Adelaide). It helps when a club is well-run and has earned a high level of respectability for both its on-field and off-field activities. The Lions' recent problems in retaining younger interstate players are in part due to the "homesick" factor but almost certainly have more to do with being down in the doldrums for so long on-field, and having worse than average facilities.
    The problem with these examples, is that its been shown to be impossible to get out "doldrums" if you are a northern clubs unless you have the extra cap room to make some massive plays and transform yourself into a destination club.

    We'll never get past this until QLD and Brisbane can produce enough quality players to support the 4 teams.

    By that argument, the Lions lost qld players to suns, and lost the ability to keep the rest. Royally screwed, and to be honest I dont think they should wear most of the blame.

  11. #275
    RWOs Black Sheep AnnieH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jewels View Post
    Personally I think the AFL made an error in the placement of the second Sydney team and believe they would have been better served to have located it on the Central Coast, which has a far greater Anglo population than the outer west, which is very ethnic and so are naturally drawn to Soccer and have their very own Aleague team.
    There is not so much competition with other sports up here and a bonus would have been that a great many locals were pretty peed off at the time GWS was in its infancy, over the non inclusion of the Central Coast Bears in the NRL and would have at least given AFL a try.
    Well thats my two cents worth anyway....
    Really?
    That's a bit racist don't you think?
    I know PLENTY of "anglos" who live in the western suburbs... they just don't like AFL.
    Last edited by AnnieH; 24th June 2016 at 12:36 PM.
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  12. #276
    Goodesgoodesgoodesgoodes! Industrial Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnnieH View Post
    Really?
    That's a bit racist don't you think?
    I know PLENTY of "anglos" who live in the western suburbs... they just don't like AFL.
    Gee that term is thrown around alot without any regard for what it means.

    Stating that people from ethnic backgrounds are more likely to follow soccer doesnt either suggest that one opinion is better than another or discriminate against them in any way.

    It is a cultural generalisation without any judgement attached, so no its not racist.
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