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Thread: Building the List

  1. #1
    pr. dim-melb; m not f
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    Building the List

    Fascinating article, on the AFL and Club websites, showing the magic touch of our recruiters.

    Building a Grand Final list - sydneyswans.com.au
    He reminds him of the guys, close-set, slow, and never rattled, who were play-makers on the team. (John Updike, seeing Josh Kennedy in a crystal ball)

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by dimelb View Post
    Fascinating article, on the AFL and Club websites, showing the magic touch of our recruiters.

    Building a Grand Final list - sydneyswans.com.au
    I was a bit shocked that we have so many first round selections. I had it firmly in my head that Swans first-round picks never work out.

    The academy/father-son rule has helped I guess, and McVeigh was drafted a long time ago so no surprise over that period that a few would be good.

  3. #3
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerman View Post
    I was a bit shocked that we have so many first round selections. I had it firmly in my head that Swans first-round picks never work out.

    The academy/father-son rule has helped I guess, and McVeigh was drafted a long time ago so no surprise over that period that a few would be good.
    That list of rookies/fourth rd and later is the real story of our club in the modern era, and should be the focus of celebrations should we get the job done tomorrow. Our ability to turn players, for an extended period of time, that were deemed by most to be not good enough at time of drafting, into seriously good AFL players is amazing. Yes the big name trades take the headlines more often than not, but those guys are every bit the reason we can be competitive year in, year out and always be near the top.
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  4. #4
    Can you feel it? Site Admin ugg's Avatar
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    I count ten players that started on the rookie list. Eight with us and two with other clubs

    Possible a record for a GF side?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by mcs View Post
    That list of rookies/fourth rd and later is the real story of our club in the modern era, and should be the focus of celebrations should we get the job done tomorrow. Our ability to turn players, for an extended period of time, that were deemed by most to be not good enough at time of drafting, into seriously good AFL players is amazing. Yes the big name trades take the headlines more often than not, but those guys are every bit the reason we can be competitive year in, year out and always be near the top.
    For me it's a combination of seeing the potential of players rather than just a narrow "here and now" view, Aliir is a classic example of that.

    And secondly just the general development work of the club. Roosy has a pretty good knowledge of the US Sports and he said that the US Sports like NBA, with their college systems, can't believe the amount of development work that needs to be done with AFL players when they come in the system, even at the skill level.

    Whereas the US sports largely get their players as a semi-finished product via a college finishing school, AFL clubs have much more work to do and that provides a real opportunity for clubs that do it well such as ours.

    As much as it has served us well I think the rookie system's days are numbered. I can see the AFLPA's point here too, the rookie players take on an equal load to all other players on the list for significantly less pay and are in every way full time professionals. The days if them being part timers is pretty much over.

    What I can is the main list being expanded to 45 players with a minimum of 42 and for players drafted in rounds 4 and later to be able to be offered one year contracts with a second year option at the club's discretion.

    I could, however, still see some sort of supplementary list being maintained for international recruits (the current Rookie Cat B)

  6. #6
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    Isn't the prevailing view down south that the list has been built using COLA? I bet Eddie doesn't read the article!

    Kudos to our recruiters and list managers, a huge tick for identifying that much talent late in the draft. Only flaws were the loss of Biggs (who we have well covered) and Membrey who would be best 22. But to accumulate this much talent over the past 5-6 years is the envy of everyone.

    Still more good players not playing today as well.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by 707 View Post
    Isn't the prevailing view down south that the list has been built using COLA? I bet Eddie doesn't read the article!

    Kudos to our recruiters and list managers, a huge tick for identifying that much talent late in the draft. Only flaws were the loss of Biggs (who we have well covered) and Membrey who would be best 22. But to accumulate this much talent over the past 5-6 years is the envy of everyone.

    Still more good players not playing today as well.
    I think when you build a good list you'll always lose a few who chase opportunities and I fear we'll see another this summer with Nanka but that is the price we pay.

    You look at where we are though and it's very healthy and all adds to a continued period of success hopefully. Looking ahead you'd think 2017 will largely about getting as many games into our current 10-25 gamers and we should have at least 20 of our 22 on the park tomorrow backing up next year. Having said that I think Foote, O'Riordan, Newman and Dawson and maybe Davis (not sure about him to be honest, 2017 is a make or break year) could all well make their senior debuts next year plus we have the following players out of that 22 who should still be here: Cunningham, Sinclair, Marsh, Reid, Rose, Robinson, BJ and Aliir.

    So, you have to say our depth is no longer an issue

  8. #8
    It is amazing how many players we have in our top 22 that were passed over by EVERY club twice maybe up to 4 times.

    This to me shows that it mostly the development department that should get the the pat on the back.

    This should have an impact on players and their decision when given the opportunity to come to Sydney. Our club may not be the biggest income provider but a player knows it will give them a chance to reach their potential.

  9. #9
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 707 View Post
    Isn't the prevailing view down south that the list has been built using COLA? I bet Eddie doesn't read the article!

    Kudos to our recruiters and list managers, a huge tick for identifying that much talent late in the draft. Only flaws were the loss of Biggs (who we have well covered) and Membrey who would be best 22. But to accumulate this much talent over the past 5-6 years is the envy of everyone.

    Still more good players not playing today as well.
    If you listen to the media dribble this week, you'd swear we will be only playing tomorrow's game with 4 guys on the field in Mills, Heeney, Tippett and Buddy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mug Punter View Post
    As much as it has served us well I think the rookie system's days are numbered. I can see the AFLPA's point here too, the rookie players take on an equal load to all other players on the list for significantly less pay and are in every way full time professionals. The days if them being part timers is pretty much over.

    What I can is the main list being expanded to 45 players with a minimum of 42 and for players drafted in rounds 4 and later to be able to be offered one year contracts with a second year option at the club's discretion.

    I could, however, still see some sort of supplementary list being maintained for international recruits (the current Rookie Cat B)
    I agree that rookies are more than likely to go, and as you say it makes sense from the AFLPA approach. That won't remove our competitive advantage of being able to find 'diamonds in the rough' however and developing them, when other clubs have simply passed them over.
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by mcs View Post
    I agree that rookies are more than likely to go, and as you say it makes sense from the AFLPA approach. That won't remove our competitive advantage of being able to find 'diamonds in the rough' however and developing them, when other clubs have simply passed them over.
    Not at all, it will just provide a more equitable deal for the rookie players though no changes have been made for 2017.

    Just out of interest, surely the clock is ticking for the new CBA to be finalised so clubs like ours can make final offers for required players like Mitchell, it really is becoming a ridiculous situation. From what I can gather the AFL is proposing an immediate increase of between $1m - $1.3 next year and then approximately 3% for each year after for the next five years of the deal.

    The current cap is $10.6m per club an additional $1m (approx.) for Additional Service Agreements which essentially club branded promotions and advertising.

    So the additional 3% should see approximately $400,000 extra a year until 2022 when the Cap plus ASAs should reach approx. $15m by my mathematics which is roughly a 5% per annum increase.

    Now, I'm no genius with maths but if I'm Paul Marsh at the AFLPA and I look at the two TV Deals I see 2012-2016 at $1.253b which is $250m a year and I look at 2017-2022 at $2.5b which is $416m a year. Same number of clubs but an increase of 66% per year to the AFL. Or an extra $166m a year

    So, if I'm a player and I feel I should get my fair share of revenue I look at the league getting a 66% increase and me getting 5%. Or even in year one, the biggest cap spike, the league gets $166m and $18m is passed on to the players (only a tick over 10%)

    In media parlance they must be miles apart on what they expect. Even on a 20% distribution to the players you'd be looking at about an extra $1.8m a year each year over the deal.

    If they are this far apart then I can see the prospect of a players strike becoming almost inevitable and I'd support the players because I don't think they'll be getting their fair share.

    $1.2 a year taking the cap to $20m a year by 2022 seems fair and if that happens then Buddy will be a Buddy Bargain.

    And it also should make us extremely grateful we have the bulk of our squad locked in on multi year deals now. Sure there will be some re-negotiating of contracts where players are manifestly under-paid, presumably along with an extra year or two (JPK an obvious one) but we'll be able to it fairly and from a position of strength.

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