Match Day Thread Rnd. 5. Sydney V GWS. SCG. 19.25 pm.

[Xie Shan]

I don't know what's more frustrating - GWS players sniping us and getting away with it, or the fact that when they do we seem unable to respond...

[S.S. Bleeder]

I know it wont get report, but that Cameron elbow to the back of Grundy's head was no accident, it was deliberate.

Apparently Greene head butted Hanners too. Anybody see that incident?

[Markwebbos]

Apparently Greene head butted Hanners too. Anybody see that incident?

It's on the AFL website.

[Mel_C]

Apparently Greene head butted Hanners too. Anybody see that incident?

I just saw it on the sports news. How it was classified as insufficient force is mind boggling. But then again this is the same panel that said Tippett's head didn't touch the ground last year!

This is Greene's third incident this year...plus there was the attempted punch to Marsh after the JLT game.

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[Sandridge]

Yes I cannot stand GWS and in particularly the way they head hunt opposition players. I saw Greene stomach punch a few of our players Saturday night playing the tough guy. And Mumford was trying to line up Jack all night but Jonhson beat him to it. Shaw just continues to be the full D/head continuing on after last weeks terrible spray towards that young Power backman.

GWS have a very highly talented team but they are very unlikeable the way they play.

Agree - any team that beats them is my favourite for the day.

Yep. They're obnoxious, unfairly aggressive and thoroughly dislikeable. But I'll be barracking for them this week against the Bulldogs. We weren't the only team that was dudded by umpires during the Bulldogs march towards the flag.

[Ludwig]

Damn the corporate media and all their fake news. I'm sick of it. I don't get sucked in with all their crap reporting.

Thank goodness, I just checked with Alex Jones of Inforwars and he says don't believe a word of it. And the Swans are actually undefeated this year and sitting atop of the ladder.

I knew it! I knew it! I knew it!


Here's Kenny leading the victory song after Saturday's game. Proof positive that we won the game. Do I need to say more?

[cruiser]

It's supporters like you and I Wardy who need a shrink for all four GF losses. ????

[wolftone57]

Forgot all about Melican with the big loss. He was really good. In fact, I thought he was one of our best.

I think we have 3 options regarding a ruckman:

1. Cameron: Worth a try if fit. He's pretty good around the ground. Takes marks. Kicks goals.
2. Aliir: Hate to take him out of defence, but I think he would be tremendous in the ruck and we wouldn't have to worry about those silly free kicks costing us goals. Has a big hurt factor.
3. Don't play a ruckman. Just play another midfielder at the ruck contests. If we are the only team that does it, then other teams won't be prepared for it. It will be a POD for us, and a much needed one. We just setup to play a style of game that doesn't depend on winning the tap outs.

We might be looking at Aliir. He has a prodigious leap. Cameron it seems has injured his hip. OOOOOUUUCCCCHHHH! Talia played well in the reserves.

[wolftone57]

I know this might sound funny, but Buddy needs to step up. He is one of the all time greats but is certainly not playing like one.

Lot of heat (rightfully so) on Jack, Parker, Hanners etc but Buddy seems to escape the criticism.

that's because when the others are playing well Bud can easily get into the play. but when they aren't he can't get supply. It is all about supply. Even when he tried to get his own ball he was surrounded by plenty of GWS and our blokes didn't work hard enough to provide a block or option for him.

[wolftone57]

Mills addressing the players during a break? For so many senior players to be out of form there are signs that it might be discord within the group rather than injuries.

I agree with this. I think the mentality that you give the senior players every chance under the sun but drop a junior player after one bad game is crap and I believe so do the junior players. Newman was one of our best last week but gets dropped, why? Unbelievable! horse is so inured with our senior players he has forgotten about form. But the other thing he forgets about is ability. I love Jordan Foote's perseverance but his ability is below par. Horse loves him because he is a bang, crash player. but sometimes you have to move on from old, tired game plans and try some players who actually have a thing called talent. negative tactics are killing us an Foote is a negative tactic.

[wolftone57]

There has been a lot of valid criticism of our star midfielders, especially Hanners and Parker. I don't know what the problem is with them. It's hard to see why 2 of the best midfielders in the league at the peak of their careers should fall away so much. For those who say our midfield is too slow, just imagine if we still had Mitchell.

We don't have to think about a premiership this year, so we can cut the emotion and just focus on building the kind of team that can win in the future, a team with speed and skill. It's easy to see what it looks like. We saw it last night, but it wasn't wearing red and white.

The number 1 problem we have, and it's not a new one, is moving the ball out of defence.

• Drop Reg. He's been great, but is too slow and fumbley.
• Move Lloyd out of defence. He's one of our better players now, but he's not a defender and can be exploited 1 on 1.
• Move Mills to the midfield. He's okay in defence, but he's needed more in the middle.
• Play 3 tall defenders: Talia (could be Maibaum in future), Aliir and Melican.
• Bring Newman back. He may be the best kick on the team. Should be taking the kick ins.
• Use Jones for run and carry out of defence.
• O'Riordan could become part of the defence if we have a rookie elevation spot open.
• When Rampe comes back, put him in the midfield. He's a big body with good pace.
• Smith stays for now, but I would be grooming Sam Fisher to play the small defender role in the future.
• Laidler has played well in the NEAFL. He's a good player. Just a bit slow. Good depth to have at the club.
• Our defence (8 players): Talia, Aliir, Melican, Newman, Marsh, Smith, Jones, O'Riordan.

Number 2 problem is the ruck. Most of the time they seem to be injured, so it's hard to plan who is playing.

• I don't know what to do with Tippett. He's only 30 and is still has another year on his big contract. So what do we do with him. For now, he may have to play in the reserves to see if he can regain form. He has to play as a ruckman if he plays as anything.
• Naismith is a good tap ruckman, but he's a liability around the ground. Needs to fix that part of his game. Injured too often anyway.
• Sinclair? Do we have to say more?
• Cameron looks the best option. If he can hold his own in the ruck he adds a lot around the ground with his marking and goal kicking. But needs to be tested at AFL level.
• Left field option 1: Play Aliir in the ruck. I think this could be his best position. I like the fact that he could pop up anywhere on the ground. He can be very damaging.
• Left field option 2: Play Towers in the ruck. He can make a contest because of his leap. Makes up 15 or more cms on true sized ruckmen. Wish he were a better player, but for a ruckman, would be good around the ground.
• Left field option 3: Don't play any ruckman. Just have a midfielder make a bit of a contest without making physical contact then try to win the ball back with having that extra midfielder at ground level.

Put McVeigh on the LTIL. Even if he recovers from his calf and now hamstring injury he can't add anything to this team. He's going to retire at the end of the year anyway. Elevate O'Riordan.

Put Kieran Jack on the LTIL. I don't know what his problem is, but he clearly is not well. Give him an 8 week rest and try to get him fixed up. Elevate Edwards. Not the perfect player, but brings a lot of energy to the game, something we are lacking.

We are in a good position to experiment now and try a few different things. We should be able to find a solution by the end of the season. It will help with our end of season decisions on player movements and drafting.

The worst thing we could do is to do the same old thing and just say (as our coach often does): "We have to get better." Saying it week after week won't make it happen. Let's not waste the year completely.

Everything you have said is very sensible. but i still think there is a greater problem not being addressed. No good changing the guard if they are all changing into the same uniforms. Stinky. Our game plan stinks. Our stoppage set ups are terrible. Our kick in set ups are the same as the last two years and are so predictable. We need to turn over some coaching staff and get people in with new ideas. Not that new ideas are going to help if they are not being utilised. It seems to me that Horse is very resistant to new ideas. It took several games last year in the preseason until the assistants were able to get the new stoppage set ups working. even then they had to revert to the old set ups some of the time. The idea of setting nobody on our offensive side, our player peels off to the middle of the centre circle leaving the opponent alone on the defensive side, is suicide. Now I'm depressed

[wolftone57]

I agree with much of this.

******

We let go of Mumford to get Buddy, not Tippett. Highly regrettable that it was necessary.

*******

Ludwig, I congratulate you on your constructive criticism and concrete proposed solutions. However I dont agree with most of it/them. In particular I don't agree that at a time when we already have one of the youngest and less experienced teams that we can afford to keep jettisoning more and more of our senior players just because they are underperforming. In most cases they are still at least as good and likely better than the alternative and they have a wealth of knowledge and experience that we need them to use to guide the new blood.

The players we are talking about have been great for the club and excellent across the competition for a long time and there time is not up yet. Kizza and Macca may be exceptions. I don't know what's wrong with Kizza but possibly he needs a spell in the twos. With Macca I don't think we should rush him back in to the side but his on field direction and leadership may be something that we could really use - but not if he can't play properly.

Reg and Smooch we need in the backline given the inexperience around them . Smooch has long been celebrated at our club and was finally recognised as All Australian. Reg is coming off his best ever season where many thought he was unlucky not to be recognised All Australian. Neither is yet 30 years old. Now if they were underperforming and surrounded by stability that would be one thing. But Mal and Marty are long gone. Teddy is gone. Rampe is out. Macca is out. We've got players like Swampy, AA, Newman, Melican and even Mills around them. Not only might this explain why their play is suffering but it shows why we need to stick fat with them and get them playing well again. Only once the newer blood is better established and performing better themselves will we be able to afford the luxury of dropping these guys if they are still underperforming. I was impressed by Melican, who did his job, last night but I can't say he was really better than Grundy. We need a mix of old and new and to allow the old to teach the new. Even if the old are not at their peak they have the knowledge and we need to ensure they pass on what they can. It is a pity that Reg is not better at this. He he seems neither a natural nor enthusiastic leader. Incidentally, one of the many things I like about Newman is that, in the 2s, he exhibits a fair bit of leadership. I hope he makes it back to seniors sooner rather than later.

*****

Returning to the coaches, I am standing by Horse. But perhaps we need some other new blood? Perhaps Dew will soon get a well earned senior opportunity somewhere and we can look to bring in someone with fresh ideas? Are Playfair and Francou continuing to perform well? It's impossible to gauge from outside but I hope and expect the club is considering these issues.

If those experienced players you are talking about have a wealth of knowledge, which I'm sure they do, why have we not seen it on display? Their form is lamentable and Ludwig is right there has to be repercussions. If we take all those under performing players into next weeks match we will get flogged. carlton is coached by Brendan Bolton, who you might remember was assistant to Clarko, he is playing young players but those young players will exploit our old, slow out of form players mate.

as for trusting Horse. The selections last week were unbelievable. Newman out yet Foote & Jack stay in. Stuff that. I will say this Kizza is a liability on the team. At least Goodsie had the guts to drop himself to the reserves to get form. Not so Kizza!