Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 13 to 24 of 28

Thread: Next Generation v Swans Academy

  1. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by dejavoodoo44 View Post
    Thanks for the link, Boddo. Obviously they're doing good work and it seems that the Clontarf Academies have played a significant role in the development to draft standard, of many young indigenous players. Although I couldn't find any current info on just how many? Though the other day, when I was using the AFL Record to work out just how many current indigenous players there were, I was quite surprised by the number that came from WA. Of the 76 currently on AFL lists, 31 are originally from WA. Since the Clontarf Foundation was started in WA, I suspect it may have something to do with that.
    Though I think that the fact that it was founded in 2000, does tend to back up my point about the Melbourne clubs. That is, if this and possibly other groups, are already performing the role of getting indigenous kids draft ready, without tying them to any particular club, then why was it necessary to introduce a system, that gives indigenous players almost no choice in which club they end up playing for? While the AFL draft is hardly a free choice system, there are few ways that young players can strongly hint on their preferences before the draft. Such as letting recruiters know that family is really important to you and for that reason, you'd really hate to move interstate. Or really enthusing to the Hawks recruiter, about how you've been a lifelong Hawks fan, but coming across as having a few personality issues to the representatives of other clubs. But indigenous kids and those with African or Asian connections, aren't even able to do that. If you just happen to be brought up in an Essendon or Hawthorn zone, then you're stuck with them, whether they had the slightest role in your development or not.
    The Clontarf foundation does excellent work. As I've stated in other threads the major draw for families in regards to academies, whether that be indigenous, Asian or African, is that you stay in the same state as your family. This is the drawcard just like what is being used in NSW & Qld to encourage parents to put their child into an AFL academy thus playing our great game. The best example I can give you is my own. My wife is Asian n has no interest in the game of Aussie rules, none whatsoever in any way shape or form. She preferred our son concentrate on school. I want him to grow up and play Aussie rules. The clincher to convince her was that I told her and showed her on the net that when old enough & if good enough he would stay at home & be part of Freo's academy n if good enough play with Freo. Her first words when I told her was "yes definitely" with a massive smile. Now the killer was when she asked me a few days later would they change the rules I said they may or may not. It was a massive change from there. So no chance of him playing, I contacted Freo n informed them and asked them to pass this onto the AFL. Families from other cultures are are very very family orientated, it matters a lot staying at home with their family members. It's why academies work and work well.

  2. #14
    I'll also add that is one of my biggest arguments in regards to how much time they have spent in their respective academies. That's one of the reasons I called it a cluster@@@@. If at least set up exactly like the northern academies with players having to spend 5 consecutive years in their respective NGA, the argument of no development getting put into them would be non existent. I will say I do know that Thomas and other members of Norfs tassie academy do spend a good amount of time getting development from Norf. So has Ethan Penrith from Carltons NGA. If you google Penrith you will see that he has spent time with Carlton. Maybe the initial period will be fazed In and it could turn into the 5 consecutive years like the NA. But like anything with NGA's information is very very hard to find.
    Last edited by Danzar; 14th May 2017 at 02:19 PM. Reason: Avoiding the swear filter. Swear away, let the filter then do its work. Please don't modify the word itself.

  3. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by dejavoodoo44 View Post
    Thanks for the link, Boddo. Obviously they're doing good work and it seems that the Clontarf Academies have played a significant role in the development to draft standard, of many young indigenous players. Although I couldn't find any current info on just how many? Though the other day, when I was using the AFL Record to work out just how many current indigenous players there were, I was quite surprised by the number that came from WA. Of the 76 currently on AFL lists, 31 are originally from WA. Since the Clontarf Foundation was started in WA, I suspect it may have something to do with that.
    Though I think that the fact that it was founded in 2000, does tend to back up my point about the Melbourne clubs. That is, if this and possibly other groups, are already performing the role of getting indigenous kids draft ready, without tying them to any particular club, then why was it necessary to introduce a system, that gives indigenous players almost no choice in which club they end up playing for? While the AFL draft is hardly a free choice system, there are few ways that young players can strongly hint on their preferences before the draft. Such as letting recruiters know that family is really important to you and for that reason, you'd really hate to move interstate. Or really enthusing to the Hawks recruiter, about how you've been a lifelong Hawks fan, but coming across as having a few personality issues to the representatives of other clubs. But indigenous kids and those with African or Asian connections, aren't even able to do that. If you just happen to be brought up in an Essendon or Hawthorn zone, then you're stuck with them, whether they had the slightest role in your development or not.
    Hi just to follow up on our conversation earlier. On Foxtel tonight was a short half hour show on the Clontarf foundation called From Little Things. It shows that through our great game it helps indigenous kids improve their whole life. It's a holistic academy not an afl academy geared 100% towards producing afl players it's why in conjunction with the Clontarf foundation that NGA's can be a great addition towards pathways to AFL talent.

  4. #16
    Go Swannies! Site Admin Meg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    In the Brewongle
    Posts
    4,717
    This is the previous thread with a lot of constructive discussion on the NGA topic.

  5. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Meg View Post
    This is the previous thread with a lot of constructive discussion on the NGA topic.
    Thanks Meg, lots of good stuff there mainly from our man on the ground in WA Boddo.

    My read on his posts is that he basically think the NGA is a good idea but has a few issues. I'd agree with that and I think the NGA was no doubt rushed through earlier than it should have to placate the Victorian clubs.

    But in time I trust the AFL to get it right and if the other 14 clubs approach their NGAs with the same goodwill and sense of community that we have approached ours then I think it will be a success. And I think the clubs that commit to the programme, like the WA clubs, will ensure that the other clubs do not rort the system.

    Boddo makes mention of the WA clubs and their indigenous programmes and how the flow from WA to other states of indigenous talent will at the very least be greatly reduced. At the risk of opening up a political and racial debate I think this is a good thing, I think that the indigenous kids suffer from homesickness a lot more acutely and if they did not need to leave WA that would be good. Provided the WA clubs genuinely do the development work and pay a fair price at the draft table.

    And from a selfish point of view, if the NGAs are required to cement the NAs into the AFL structure then I'm happy for the other clubs to have them

  6. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Mug Punter View Post
    Thanks Meg, lots of good stuff there mainly from our man on the ground in WA Boddo.

    My read on his posts is that he basically think the NGA is a good idea but has a few issues. I'd agree with that and I think the NGA was no doubt rushed through earlier than it should have to placate the Victorian clubs.

    But in time I trust the AFL to get it right and if the other 14 clubs approach their NGAs with the same goodwill and sense of community that we have approached ours then I think it will be a success. And I think the clubs that commit to the programme, like the WA clubs, will ensure that the other clubs do not rort the system.

    Boddo makes mention of the WA clubs and their indigenous programmes and how the flow from WA to other states of indigenous talent will at the very least be greatly reduced. At the risk of opening up a political and racial debate I think this is a good thing, I think that the indigenous kids suffer from homesickness a lot more acutely and if they did not need to leave WA that would be good. Provided the WA clubs genuinely do the development work and pay a fair price at the draft table.

    And from a selfish point of view, if the NGAs are required to cement the NAs into the AFL structure then I'm happy for the other clubs to have them
    Yes I m in favour of NGA's. But like you have said there is issues.

    In regards to the indigenous academies your right homesickness is a massive issue. Indigenous people call each other cousin even if their not blood related & have a massive connection to their culture, friends, family n where they come from. I've seen a number of these kids up north n their skill is amazing to watch. Done correctly, which I think the WA clubs are doing, it's going to be a very successful program going forward. Not just for talent identification but also for their communities.

    On the Blakey one with North. It's not just King. These club mouthpieces work together regularly n I have no doubt will make a concerted effort together to take away F/S's from academies. They have done the same spreading the lie that Sydney bought Franklin with all the COLA money. The issue is they are so powerful with what gets put out in public that the AFL end up folding n giving in to selfish attitudes. After the WA clubs indigenous programs start to produce good talent they'll go after them no doubt. And it will show that they have no interest in the development of our game n it's people. Pretty much all the inaqualities in regards to academies I talk about are in favour of Victorian clubs. Again this happens cause they have to much power. Way way to much.

  7. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Boddo View Post
    Yes I m in favour of NGA's. But like you have said there is issues.

    In regards to the indigenous academies your right homesickness is a massive issue. Indigenous people call each other cousin even if their not blood related & have a massive connection to their culture, friends, family n where they come from. I've seen a number of these kids up north n their skill is amazing to watch. Done correctly, which I think the WA clubs are doing, it's going to be a very successful program going forward. Not just for talent identification but also for their communities.

    On the Blakey one with North. It's not just King. These club mouthpieces work together regularly n I have no doubt will make a concerted effort together to take away F/S's from academies. They have done the same spreading the lie that Sydney bought Franklin with all the COLA money. The issue is they are so powerful with what gets put out in public that the AFL end up folding n giving in to selfish attitudes. After the WA clubs indigenous programs start to produce good talent they'll go after them no doubt. And it will show that they have no interest in the development of our game n it's people. Pretty much all the inaqualities in regards to academies I talk about are in favour of Victorian clubs. Again this happens cause they have to much power. Way way to much.
    Time will tell I guess re the Victorian clubs.

    The NGAs in WA are potentially a gamechanger to take the indigenous football development up yet another notch there. So Freo and WCE have a significant stake in keeping the academies AND F/S.

    Re Blakey and other situations like Baily Scott the kids have a choice, they are not excluded from going F/S so I think that really is very fair. If Blakey did choose North I'd be disappointed but I'd respect his decision just like I did with Dunkley as I'm sure he indicated a Vic club preference. I know this is wishful thinking but it would be nice if the Vic clubs could do the same.

    On a practical level it is all about keeping the Academies. How many kids have we ever gotten that are any good via F/S?, only one of note that I can remember (Mitchell). I'm not saying that it should happen, and if it does we should fight it with all our might but even if it did happen it wouldn't hurt us much. And the Blakey situation is an outlier.

    Gillon is starting to show a bit of form in making good decisions re the academies. Whilst the need tweaking I think the NGAs were a good response to an issue that was threatening to tear things apart (and it is especially good for WA and SA which is good) and the way he trimmed back the GWS concessions with the remark "I don't know why they were in there in the first place to be honest" in terms of the Murray Border kids was another example of commonsense.

    It will take at least a generation but ultimately the academies will probably disappear and that should be a good thing. They will be a victim of their own success and any advantage the Swans get will be unfair. That's a long way off, when Sydney starts to regularly produce 10+ draftable kids yearly on a regular basis and when the AFL culture in Sydney is so strong that it doesn't need special considerations. We can then get downgraded to a NGA only. That scenario is 20 years away at best IMO though

    I've said this before but ultimately the academies need to start producing players for other clubs regularly and we need to start letting kids go in good grace in the knowledge we will always get the one we really want. I even like the idea that limits the R1 academy picks to 1 if you finish top 4 but I do think you should be able to trade in a second pick by trading in a second first rounder.

    I think the lack of noise from down south this year does indicate that most of the sting has gone out of this debate and I think Gillon has played a huge role in diffusing it.
    Last edited by Mug Punter; 15th September 2017 at 10:54 AM.

  8. #20
    Go Swannies! Site Admin Meg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    In the Brewongle
    Posts
    4,717

    Next Generation v Swans Academy

    Sometime ago in this thread we discussed the possibility that NGAs would become defacto zones rather than fulfil the intent they should target new talent from under-represented groups.

    This article seems to indicate that possibility is already a fact.

    �More than 20 players likely to be taken in the (next) draft will come from Next Generation Academies (NGAs), are father-son prospects or part of the northern club academies.�

    �Fairfax Media has been told that clubs routinely ask about the backgrounds of every player on TAC Cup lists, and so already in the pathway program, to determine whether they fill the criteria for one of the academies and therefore under the club's priority access.�

    http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-new...02-p4zcxn.html

    (This is tangentially related to outrage re Blakey�s decision to state his preference to be drafted by the Swans under the northern academy rules rather then be a F/S selection by the Roos or Lions. Would be very hypocritical to change the rules for the northern academies but ignore what seems to be happening in NGAs).

    Ps: the jostling for points accumulation leading up to the draft will be fascinating to watch!

  9. #21
    Veterans List dejavoodoo44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    7,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Meg View Post
    Sometime ago in this thread we discussed the possibility that NGAs would become defacto zones rather than fulfil the intent they should target new talent from under-represented groups.

    This article seems to indicate that possibility is already a fact.

    �More than 20 players likely to be taken in the (next) draft will come from Next Generation Academies (NGAs), are father-son prospects or part of the northern club academies.�

    �Fairfax Media has been told that clubs routinely ask about the backgrounds of every player on TAC Cup lists, and so already in the pathway program, to determine whether they fill the criteria for one of the academies and therefore under the club's priority access.�

    http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-new...02-p4zcxn.html

    (This is tangentially related to outrage re Blakey�s decision to state his preference to be drafted by the Swans under the northern academy rules rather then be a F/S selection by the Roos or Lions. Would be very hypocritical to change the rules for the northern academies but ignore what seems to be happening in NGAs).

    Ps: the jostling for points accumulation leading up to the draft will be fascinating to watch!
    Yes, very hypocritical. And I can't see the Victorian clubs throwing much cash at their academies, if all they have to do to get access to players, is to get somebody to ask TAC cup kids, a question like, "What is your ethnicity?"

  10. #22
    Veterans List
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Crowland :-(
    Posts
    6,096
    The rules around NGA are so blurry that we'll see all of the old zone tactics employed again like promising kids suddenly moving residential address to be in a preferred clubs zone. We even saw some dodgy stuff around this with the GWS academy zone down Mexico way.

  11. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by 707 View Post
    The rules around NGA are so blurry that we'll see all of the old zone tactics employed again like promising kids suddenly moving residential address to be in a preferred clubs zone. We even saw some dodgy stuff around this with the GWS academy zone down Mexico way.
    Scotch College is in Collingwood�s zones area. You board there you�ll end up a magpie depending on where one of your parents are born or if your indigenous.

  12. #24
    Veterans List
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Crowland :-(
    Posts
    6,096
    Quote Originally Posted by Boddo View Post
    Scotch College is in Collingwood�s zones area. You board there you�ll end up a magpie depending on where one of your parents are born or if your indigenous.
    I know families who are Aussie through and through but one or both parents immigrated when they were very young. It appears that kids from these very Aussie backgrounds who have played AFL all their life are now suddenly appearing as NGA draft prospects for Victorian clubs.

    Caving in to Maguire & co has created this potential mess for the VFL, and it will get worse.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO