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Thread: 2018 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

  1. #49
    Backline: I think it was fairly obvious that Macca in 2017 contributed significantly to the direction and composed football in our backline. So I’m wondering if Macca is not playing that type of role in 2018 who could? Could Rampe play loose/link and be our general and AA comes in to play Rampes old role of marking up on a key forward? Or has Mills or Newman got the game awareness to step up and be this player? Which would mean we can bring in more speed into the backline rotation? For me I would love to see Florent evolve into a Lloyd / Macca transition player role. He is so composed for his age and some good speed. Dawson may also be an obvious backline / midfield rotation with his stretch arms for marking and his booming kick off the Flanks. Dawson for me reminds me of a traditional Geelong mid tall counter attacking defender (Enright or Mackie etc) The guy is 190cm but plays more like a 193cm with his super long arms. Imagine dawson slicing 60m kicks from our backline to Buddy on the run !!

    My gut feeling is that to start 2018 Lloyd takes over Macca’s role and then we add more run into the backline. Ie the run will come from Flo and Mills and Jones will rotate between the backline and midfield and Newman will play Mills 2017 role. Then Lloyd can still do his link role with gut running where needed but he also becomes more of a director off the HBF with quick handballs and short kicks

    For me the midfield and forward line picks itself right now

    B: Rampe Grundy Smith
    Mills Melican Lloyd

    C: Naismith Kennedy Parker
    Hannebery Jones Heeney

    F: Papley Reid Franklin
    Jack Rohan Hayward

    Int: Towers, Hewitt, The Flo, Newman

    E: Tippett, Aliir, Dawson, Macca, Robbo, Swampy, Ling, Cunningham, Sinclair, Rose

    It’s just so good to have a genuine 32 players that could slot into our top 22
    Last edited by Auntie.Gerald; 9th January 2018 at 06:54 AM.

  2. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie.Gerald View Post
    Backline: I think it was fairly obvious that Macca in 2017 contributed significantly to the direction and composed football in our backline. So I’m wondering if Macca is not playing that type of role in 2018 who could? Could Rampe play loose/link and be our general and AA comes in to play Rampes old role of marking up on a key forward? Or has Mills or Newman got the game awareness to step up and be this player? Which would mean we can bring in more speed into the backline rotation? For me I would love to see Florent evolve into a Lloyd / Macca transition player role. He is so composed for his age and some good speed. Dawson may also be an obvious backline / midfield rotation with his stretch arms for marking and his booming kick off the Flanks. Dawson for me reminds me of a traditional Geelong mid tall counter attacking defender (Enright or Mackie etc) The guy is 190cm but plays more like a 193cm with his super long arms. Imagine dawson slicing 60m kicks from our backline to Buddy on the run !!

    My gut feeling is that to start 2018 Lloyd takes over Macca’s role and then we add more run into the backline. Ie the run will come from Flo and Mills and Jones will rotate between the backline and midfield and Newman will play Mills 2017 role. Then Lloyd can still do his link role with gut running where needed but he also becomes more of a director off the HBF with quick handballs and short kicks

    For me the midfield and forward line picks itself right now

    B: Rampe Grundy Smith
    Mills Melican Lloyd

    C: Naismith Kennedy Parker
    Hannebery Jones Heeney

    F: Papley Reid Franklin
    Jack Rohan Hayward

    Int: Towers, Hewitt, The Flo, Newman

    E: Tippett, Aliir, Dawson, Macca, Robbo, Swampy, Ling, Cunningham, Sinclair, Rose

    It’s just so good to have a genuine 32 players that could slot into our top 22

    So we're on the same page with the exceptions of my holding out the hope of a Tippett resurgence, and having been seduced by all the talking up of Dawson. I'm also hoping to see Ling on the wing at some point but there are no easy places for him.

    I really liked what McVeigh brought to the team last year once he got on the field—the difference in the back half set-ups was palpable, and it does make me wonder whether with him in the side a couple of those early games might have gone a different way, might not have gotten away from us (Port game, Collingwood game). However, I also think that it was pretty clear that he didn't have the pace to keep in the game as the season progressed. When our mids finally did have a bad day, he was exposed pretty badly. That Cunningham was selected in the back seven to add a bit of pace speaks volumes—a very bad move for the team and for Cunningham, who will struggle to get picked this year.

    The issue I've been thinking about is that of the flexibility of the defence: what do we do when another team gets a roll on, or if a key defender is getting towelled up? Moving Reid back seems to be a useful way to stabilise a game in time-on, but does not always look like a tactical response to a key contest going pear-shaped. Throwing Rohan back in a crisis doesn't seem to work, and in fact seems to sow a bit of havoc. His game is not to stand a man: he's a chaser, not a defender. Great for front half pressure or for haring after balls into the forward pockets, but looks lost under pressure in defence (his great running game off HB against Roos in 2014 came off a dominating backline). Clearly, in the absence of another big body we had no option when Dangerfield took us apart last year, but would not Jones be a better option to go back in such a situation to create a bit of body-on-body pressure? And would not Dawson add a bit of flexibility as a rotation capable of playing back?

    What is the word on Hanna's OP? Is he recovering/has he recovered?

  3. #51
    Good effort, O'Reilly Boy. Especially the way you anticipated and addressed the most controversial points.

    What's the rationale for playing Rohan high up the ground? I guess it gives him more opportunities to use his pace and also his long kick. Would you have him play closer to goal when we're defending?

    I think Tippett won't be ready for AFL by round 1 (could be wrong) which makes it trickier. I agree with keeping the faith with Tippo if he is healthy and in form. Naismith if we are only going to play one ruck. Very harsh for Sinclair if he is omitted - but someone is going to lose out.

    I would love to see Aliir win selection in the 22 but no idea if it will happen. I am intrigued with Macca. Why retain him an extra year if we don't play him when he's fit? We don't need him for depth, we need him for his on-field leadership and direction. For this reason, I think he'll be in the 22 round 1 if he's fit and he'll hold his place until either (a) he's injured; (b) he's managed; or (c) he becomes too great a liability defensively. Another interesting call is selecting Dawson ahead of Florent. They're both full of promise and I think it will depend on the opposition and the venue, training form etc. Too hard to split for mine. I also agree Towers place is his to lose and we should back him for the time being. He has the runs on the board and, albeit very gradually and in fits and starts, he has continued to improve in recent seasons.

    There are a number of players in your 22 who I see as under a fair bit of pressure including: Hayward, Rohan, Towers, Melican, Newman and Jack (and the rucks, maybe even Smith?? or is that way premature?). Outside the 22, and apart from your emergencies, Macca and Sinkers are the closest to selection perhaps followed by Cunningham, O'Riordan, Robinson, Fox, Marsh and Foote vaguely in that order. That's a lot of decent players who will be playing 2s. Somewhere further back: Cameron, AJ, Maibaum, Ling, Stoddart, Ronke and then the rest.

    So, I agree, AG, good depth!

  4. #52
    AG, I think Rampe is most obvious replacement for Macca as on-field director. Mills after that, assuming he isn't destined for the midfield (which seems the more likely option). Reg and Smooch, as experienced seniors will also do some of this, at least in terms of organising the defence, if not the rebound.

    O'Reilly Boy, in terms of who can help out if a KPD is getting towelled up or the other team is rolling, I think this is the value of Aliir with his height, athleticism and versatility even if he isn't first and foremost a one-on-one defender. I think if his form warrants it, I would play him together with Reg, Melican, Reid and and Buddy as our talls (plus the ruck) and he can be a tall utility, taking some of the pressure off swingman Reid.

  5. #53
    We do seem to have too many talented players to fit into the team. Yet still a lack of one "complete" ruckman.

    I wonder if Grundy will still be playing at the end of 2018 or will have begun to make way for someone else rather like Teddy did? Would that be Melican, Maibaum? I could see them letting Melican try and play on the #1 forward at the very least.

    After the successful Richmond experiment, it's likely that we'll need even less tall defenders in 2018 than we did in 2017... so worry how AA is going to get back unless there's a change of role for him or a change of structure. Wonder what the impact of Shaw becoming backline coach will be on the careers of Maibaum, AA etc.

    I've been a big defender of Towers on the basis he's quick and would rather he pinch hits in the ruck than Reid. I believe Cameron showed a lot of potential before getting injured last year as a genuine FWD-RUCK rather than vice versa. Would love to see him get some game time as well as the others - O-Flo, DAWSON and AA.

    I'd also like to see Marsh given a go as a replacement for Nick Smith. Think he's too defensive / not tall enough to play any other role, but that might work for him.

    How many weeks until the JLT series begins?

  6. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodspirit View Post
    Good effort, O'Reilly Boy. Especially the way you anticipated and addressed the most controversial points.

    What's the rationale for playing Rohan high up the ground? I guess it gives him more opportunities to use his pace and also his long kick. Would you have him play closer to goal when we're defending?

    I think Tippett won't be ready for AFL by round 1 (could be wrong) which makes it trickier. I agree with keeping the faith with Tippo if he is healthy and in form. Naismith if we are only going to play one ruck. Very harsh for Sinclair if he is omitted - but someone is going to lose out.

    I would love to see Aliir win selection in the 22 but no idea if it will happen. I am intrigued with Macca. Why retain him an extra year if we don't play him when he's fit? We don't need him for depth, we need him for his on-field leadership and direction. For this reason, I think he'll be in the 22 round 1 if he's fit and he'll hold his place until either (a) he's injured; (b) he's managed; or (c) he becomes too great a liability defensively. Another interesting call is selecting Dawson ahead of Florent. They're both full of promise and I think it will depend on the opposition and the venue, training form etc. Too hard to split for mine. I also agree Towers place is his to lose and we should back him for the time being. He has the runs on the board and, albeit very gradually and in fits and starts, he has continued to improve in recent seasons.

    There are a number of players in your 22 who I see as under a fair bit of pressure including: Hayward, Rohan, Towers, Melican, Newman and Jack (and the rucks, maybe even Smith?? or is that way premature?). Outside the 22, and apart from your emergencies, Macca and Sinkers are the closest to selection perhaps followed by Cunningham, O'Riordan, Robinson, Fox, Marsh and Foote vaguely in that order. That's a lot of decent players who will be playing 2s. Somewhere further back: Cameron, AJ, Maibaum, Ling, Stoddart, Ronke and then the rest.

    So, I agree, AG, good depth!

    My thinking re Rohan: I don't see him as an accountable player behind the ball; in defence he at best offers a kind of chaos factor to unsettle attacking movements, but I think that it is a waste of what he has to offer. He exerts fantastic forward defensive pressure with his pace, closing speed, and arm span: he locks opponents in pockets, pressures them on the chase and forces turnovers or stoppages etc. Putting him high up the ground will force oppositions to commit a KPD who he will also be able to run off into space coming back down the wings. I see Reid and Buddy as being more effective 40-60 metres out. When we are in defence I'd still be inclined to set him up close to goal, but with the scope to come back along a wing for a release.

    I thought that Sinclair's break-out game from the goal square against St Kilda was terrific, but he didn't find the circumstances to repeat the dose. As soon as he was factored into defensive plans and properly manned up he was quickly neutralised. I think that with Reid, Buddy and Rohan up front, with Papley and Hayward crumbing and a rotation of Jack/Hewitt/Parker as players who can both rove and take a mark in F50, it is hard to see where Sinclair fits in IF Tippett can get back to first half of 2016 form (big if, I know).

    The question of succession plans for Smooch and Reg is the big one for the year, I think. Mellican seems to be the preferred Reg 2.0. As for Smith: does Foote have any experience in the back half? I know that he is an in-and-under player, but I think that Hewitt is the obvious replacement for Kennedy in that role. Foote strikes me as being a bit in the Matthews/Bird mould: honest, accountable, but not a game breaker (with respect to Bird, who I think sacrificed his game consistently to play that role). How might he work in a back six with Rampe, Mellican, Aliir, Mills and Lloyd?

    The McVeigh thing is really hard. I have loved his game for years, and fondly recall his work up and down the O'Reilly wing back in the days when no-one would kick to him: lots of arm waving and wispy locks blowing in the breeze, but rarely a disposal. My feeling is that he will have a year like Pebbles' 2014. I do think that Lloyd and Mills are in a position to step up into that HB General role, having been apprenticed into it last year by Macca: directing traffic and filling out what Matt80 used to call the quarterback role, organising the defence, but add pace to the mix. Maybe on a wet afternoon he could get a game, or, indeed, if things fall apart like they did early last season, but we need run off the backline as plan A from the get go.

  7. #55
    Thing about McVeigh is he has an arrangement to transition to a coaching role once he retires as a player. That gives the Club an out, and avoids a repeat of the Rhino experience of 2014. I really can't see him still in the best 22, come September 2018. It will be interesting to see how the "transition" plays out. Perhaps he'll get "injured"?

  8. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Billericay View Post
    We do seem to have too many talented players to fit into the team. Yet still a lack of one "complete" ruckman.

    I wonder if Grundy will still be playing at the end of 2018 or will have begun to make way for someone else rather like Teddy did? Would that be Melican, Maibaum? I could see them letting Melican try and play on the #1 forward at the very least.

    After the successful Richmond experiment, it's likely that we'll need even less tall defenders in 2018 than we did in 2017... so worry how AA is going to get back unless there's a change of role for him or a change of structure. Wonder what the impact of Shaw becoming backline coach will be on the careers of Maibaum, AA etc.

    I've been a big defender of Towers on the basis he's quick and would rather he pinch hits in the ruck than Reid. I believe Cameron showed a lot of potential before getting injured last year as a genuine FWD-RUCK rather than vice versa. Would love to see him get some game time as well as the others - O-Flo, DAWSON and AA.

    I'd also like to see Marsh given a go as a replacement for Nick Smith. Think he's too defensive / not tall enough to play any other role, but that might work for him.

    How many weeks until the JLT series begins?

    Like your comment re Marsh. Solid performer when he has played in the ones, including preliminary final win v cats 2016. Probably should have played in GF instead of Mills or Mcveigh who weren't 100 per cent. Not the worst on our list.

  9. #57
    For me smithy is a fair way ahead as a lock down specialist.......but I too have thought maybe marsh could play that role in the future at some point

  10. #58
    I wouldn't play McVeigh or Rohan unless they are have 30+ possessions games in the 2's. The team needs a generational change.

  11. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    I wouldn't play McVeigh or Rohan unless they are have 30+ possessions games in the 2's. The team needs a generational change.
    Rohan's value as a pressure chaser isn't captured by disposal stats. He's not a mid, inside or out. Nor is he is a distributor off HB. He can break the lines running out of defence, but such opportunities do not arise that often, nor has he ever had the chance to settle into and to develop that role. Nor do I think that his game is suited to the wing. Played at FF he will soak up a KPD and offer a marking option, as well as forward defensive pressure. We need his pace.

    Generational change? Let's see, in the last three or four seasons, Heeney, Mills, Papley, Jones, LLoyd, Towers, Hayward, Florent, Mellican, Newman, Naismith, plus Fox, Dawson, Marsh, Aliir, Marsh, Foote, Rose, Robinson . . . plus the Kennedy succession. Of the 2012 GF team, only Kennedy, Hannebery, Parker, Jack, Grundy, Smith, Reid, AJ and McVeigh remain, and we're all talking about Grundy, Smith, McVeigh and Jack moving along in the next two years. Do you want to show Kennedy, Hannebery, Parker and Reid the door too? The team is in the extraordinary position of being the most experienced in finals, while having debuted over a dozen players—most of whom have secured regular places in the 25—in the past two seasons alone. I'm not sure that any organisation (short of the White House) could function with such a level of turn-over in four years, let alone achieve to the level that this team has.
    Last edited by O'Reilly Boy; 10th January 2018 at 07:50 AM.

  12. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by O'Reilly Boy View Post
    Rohan's value as a pressure chaser isn't captured by disposal stats. He's not a mid, inside or out. Nor is he is a distributor off HB. He can break the lines running out of defence, but such opportunities do not arise that often, nor has he ever had the chance to settle into and to develop that role. Nor do I think that his game is suited to the wing. Played at FF he will soak up a KPD and offer a marking option, as well as forward defensive pressure. We need his pace.

    Generational change? Let's see, in the last three or four seasons, Heeney, Mills, Papley, Jones, LLoyd, Towers, Hayward, Florent, Mellican, Newman, Naismith, plus Fox, Dawson, Marsh, Aliir, Marsh, Foote, Rose, Robinson . . . plus the Kennedy succession. Of the 2012 GF team, only Kennedy, Hannebery, Parker, Jack, Grundy, Smith, Reid, AJ and McVeigh remain, and we're all talking about Grundy, Smith, McVeigh and Jack moving along in the next two years. Do you want to show Kennedy, Hannebery, Parker and Reid the door too? The team is in the extraordinary position of being the most experienced in finals, while having debuted over a dozen players—most of whom have secured regular places in the 25—in the past two seasons alone. I'm not sure that any organisation (short of the White House) could function with such a level of turn-over in four years, let alone achieve to the level that this team has.
    Pwned, as the young people used to say about 3 years ago.

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