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Thread: Coaching and Plan B

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  1. #1

    Coaching and Plan B

    Today there is this hilarious article on afl.com.au about how Chris Scott and the Cats' have no Plan B: 'Can you please sit down?' Scott bristles at fan - AFL.com.au. Sound familiar?

    Substitute Longmire for Scott here and you might get a sense of deja if you read RWO regularly:

    Scott has defended his coaching approach, labelling criticism that he lacks a 'plan B' as "unsophisticated clichés".
    Scott was challenged by a member from the audience at Monday night's Annual General Meeting, saying that he lacked imagination in the coach's box and his coaching staff were too slow to halt the momentum of opposition teams once they got a run on.


    The main reason this is interesting (and amusing) is because it sounds exactly like the criticisms some RWO posters make of Horse. Another reason is because those same people were contrasting Longmire with Chris Scott after the Cats beat us in the semi-final in 2017 where they said Scott tactically out-manouevred Horse and was a much better 'game day coach'. So, it's ironic (to me at least) that (some) Cats fans think the exact same thing of Scott. The pleasant contrast is that I'm confident Horse would deal with such a question more diplomatically and less defensively.

    Leaving all that aside, the question remains: do we have a Plan B? If not, do we need one? Will the new coaches have the missing answers?

  2. #2
    Warming the Bench
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    Yes is the short answer

  3. #3
    Carpe Noctem CureTheSane's Avatar
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    I'm sure every team is critical of their teams lack of plan B

    Swans fans are no different.
    In the end everyone has potential to be the lowest common denominator, as reflected earlier in the season when the lynch mob came out after Longmire due to a few losses.
    The difference between insanity and genius is measured only in success.

  4. #4
    Veterans List wolftone57's Avatar
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    plan B's are all well and good but if you don't have the right structure you plan's A to Z aren't any good. to have the right structure you need to have the players to fill the frame and build the structure. It's like building a house, every brick has to be in the right place and one weak brick can bring the house down.

    In last year's final against the Cats we went in with a lack of structure. A lack of players to fill the structure. Some players showed us they are ready, some they weren't and others that time was catching up with them. Macca is not Adam Goodes, and even if he was as brilliant as Goodes time has moved on and no team will get away with playing a player who can't chase as all teams set up on the HB and run off you. We had trouble with teams that did that then but now they have perfected it.

    We need to have firstly structure, then the players to fill the structure and then we need strategies to complete the structure and make it work. Strategies that are interchangeable. strategies that will exploit opposition weaknesses and in turn work to our strengths. We need run and carry, pinpoint kicking, strong marking and fierce tackling. We need players who can exploit their opponents by making space, no matter which ground we play on.

    I believe we can't allow Macca to be exploited for lack of speed and Kizza to be exploited for lack of kicking prowess. These are just two of the elements that make us weaker. We can talk all day of how clever, efficient, strategically brilliant on field Macca is and everybody would be right for saying so. But if his player is burning him off every time the ball comes down and is either kicking goals or setting them up then his usefulness would need to be questioned. He was moved from the back line several times last year, he is a clever forward and clever tactics do work against junior players, but against seasoned veterans that is not going to happen too often. Kizza needs to clean up his disposal as his efficiency is pretty poor. He needs to step up in many departments if he is going to play a whole season. He's lost a metre of pace and gets caught quite a bit now. If two NEAFL players are ready and waiting and these two are not being effective then the call needs to be made. If we don't win a premiership next year then they are not going to be a part of the future so then play the youngsters.

    I think with coaches coming from outside the Swans a new perspective might just be very good. They have seen us as an opponent not as an ally. They have been a part of teams that have tried to dismantle us and in the case of Stevie have succeeded. It's good for our coaches to know why this happens and what to do to fix it. I think we have gotten off to a good start by drafting speed, accurate kicking, solid tacklers and high markers. These new kids look pretty good.

  5. #5
    It's funny that Scott and Longmire are criticised so heavily given that they would have two of the best winning percentages of any coach.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AB Swannie View Post
    It's funny that Scott and Longmire are criticised so heavily given that they would have two of the best winning percentages of any coach.
    Indeed. Just went for a look at the latest numbers. H&A games:

    1. Scott 73.86%
    2. Pyke 71.59%
    3. Longmire 70.13%

    then a fair bit of daylight to

    4. Simpson 63.07%
    5. Clarkson 62.28%

  7. #7
    Veterans List wolftone57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilfws View Post
    Indeed. Just went for a look at the latest numbers. H&A games:

    1. Scott 73.86%
    2. Pyke 71.59%
    3. Longmire 70.13%

    then a fair bit of daylight to

    4. Simpson 63.07%
    5. Clarkson 62.28%
    Those figures are deceptive. Clarkson took over a very weak team and built the list. Both Longmire and Scott took over when the teams were pretty good and the lists were top quality. In fact Scott took over a ready made premiership team. Longmire's Swans had a few holes but not that many and they were plugged rather quickly by good drafting leading to a premiership in 2012. Let's face it he only took over in 2011. After all we made the semi finals in 2010. We were in exactly the same position in 2011.

    Scott took over from Bomber Thompson in 2011. He won the premiership in his first year with a side that had won the 2007, runner up 2008, 2009, prelim 2010. This was a pretty good side, no I'd say this was the most experienced finals side and one of the most talented ever assembled. He inherited a gold mine. since then Scott has coached the Cats to the Elimination in 2012, the Prelim in 2013, Semi 2014, 2015 no finals, Prelim 2016, Prelim 2017. He keeps trading experienced players, some seen as the best in the league, into his team to keep them up the top. He is trying to buy a premiership in the next two years. If he doesn't they could be in trouble. They have not drafted much youth in the last 5 years and their depth is pretty poor.

    Simpson again is a coach that took over a struggling side. Although his record is not as good as the others.

    Clarkson took over Hawthorn when they were right down. In fact they were second bottom. Between 2000 & 2004 they finished 8, 6, 10, 9, 15. When Clarkson took over the list needed a total clean out. Players like Ben Dickson who turned up but failed to play most weeks found themselves being shown the door. All the dreadful dross they had traded in from other sides like Essendon were let go. Hence in 2005 they finished 14th, in 2006 11th, 2007 5th playing off in the Semi Final and won the Premiership in 2008. They have improved under Clarkson every year he has had charge. He became the second coach in this millennium to coach three in a row and has won 4 Premierships. Neither Scott nor Longmire have done that. In fact both have won one Premiership, so sometimes figures lie. By the way with the team Scott was gifted, Longmire less so, he should have won more. Although you could argue so should Longmire.
    Last edited by wolftone57; 28th December 2017 at 05:02 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by neilfws View Post
    Indeed. Just went for a look at the latest numbers. H&A games:

    1. Scott 73.86%
    2. Pyke 71.59%
    3. Longmire 70.13%

    then a fair bit of daylight to

    4. Simpson 63.07%
    5. Clarkson 62.28%
    I’d be interested to see the same stat but for finals only. Think Clarkson would be above all the rest then

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Markwebbos View Post
    I’d be interested to see the same stat but for finals only. Think Clarkson would be above all the rest then
    Yes - of current coaches Clarkson has a very good record in finals. He is 16-8 for a 66.6% record. Beverage has the best percentage based on a smaller sample size of 4-1 (80%). Longmire is 4th at 10-9 (52.63%).

    Overall, for coaches that have coached 100+ games Scott is 1st and Longmire in 3rd in terms of percentage. He cops a lot of criticism on here but these are seriously good numbers. As someone who remembers watching the 90s, I am happy to have Horse in charge winning 7 out of 10 games.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by AB Swannie View Post
    Yes - of current coaches Clarkson has a very good record in finals. He is 16-8 for a 66.6% record. Beverage has the best percentage based on a smaller sample size of 4-1 (80%). Longmire is 4th at 10-9 (52.63%).

    Overall, for coaches that have coached 100+ games Scott is 1st and Longmire in 3rd in terms of percentage. He cops a lot of criticism on here but these are seriously good numbers. As someone who remembers watching the 90s, I am happy to have Horse in charge winning 7 out of 10 games.
    Longmire's finals record better than Scott's I recko

  11. #11
    Veterans List aardvark's Avatar
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    Champion Data have us as the No 1 ranked team next year. Over to you John!

  12. #12
    Thanks to Cosmic Wizard i Was lucky enough to sit with around 9 of the swans tonight and chat over dinner . I asked the question of flexibility in game style at the Swans. I was able to chat to coaches and Individually to the players also

    As U know I have been banging on about developing more “ flexibility “ in our game strategy and our list management but it was verified that this is a fundamental change at the club moving into 2017 and 2018 recruitment

    Ie when things are not working with our traditional contested style of footy in a game how do we adjust mid game ?

    Below I have some answers given but won’t name players / coaches out of respect

    Answers :

    In general if the coaches and players feel confident enough in their style of play they stick primarily with the same blueprint but different backline transitions and different entries into our forward line ie depending on matchups and opposition game plan

    New players are recruited for a game plan that the club feels is the most competitive and resilient and this is important to build around this

    In short the game plan we use was mentioned as needing more flexibility hence the recruitment of Florent, hayward, Ling , Stoddart so we have genuine run in our transitions , wing areas in the future.

    Ps

    interestingly one of the coaches was super impressed with Oli and called him a Jet and was admiring of how well Oli handled himself last 18months with his father passing away and leaving his family at a tough time

    It sounded like we are going to see a lot more of Oli.

    One of our senior players said he was blown away by Will Hayward’s first year impact

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