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Thread: #AFL Round 10, Swans vs Lions, Gabba

  1. #61
    Veterans List Ludwig's Avatar
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    One of the interesting commentaries and oft repeated but mistaken platitudes is how the bigger Swans' bodies eventually wear down the opposition. The fact is the on the weekend the Swans were easily the shortest and lightest team playing. They were around 3 cm shorter and 5 kgs lighter than Brisbane.

    It's hard to correct this overnight with the likes of Hayward, Florent, Ronke and Papley all playing well and not likely to be pushed out of the side. But I think the Swans do need to bulk up a bit as I've noticed that we are more susceptible to having tackles broken and this lack of size will be telling as the season wears on. We've done okay in defence despite being grossly undersized. The defensive group is working well together, which has papered over the lack of size.

    Melican or Aliir should come into the side sometime soon. Even though he's been in modest form this year, I wouldn't mind giving Aliir a look in to he senior side before Melican is fit to go. We also have several mature bodies like O'Riordan, Fox, Towers and Newman who can all come in to the senior side and do a good job (perhaps making a bit of a positive projection for COR). I would also expect that Reid and Rohan will be back in the side by the time August rolls around.

    I like the way the kids are going, but I'm not sure if it's going to be good enough to get us deep into finals. It's going to be close.

  2. #62
    pr. dim-melb; m not f
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    Another factor with our youngsters is that they all demand respect from any opposition. Its no longer a case of "stop Buddy and you stop the Swans", it's a whole gaggle of players who are dangerous in the forward 50: Papley, Hayward, Florent, Ronke can all kick well, and so, apparently, can Stoddart. Not to mention the hardened warriors we have had for a while, and those in the seconds knocking on the door. We are doing OK, with further improvement to come.
    He reminds him of the guys, close-set, slow, and never rattled, who were play-makers on the team. (John Updike, seeing Josh Kennedy in a crystal ball)

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    I like the way the kids are going, but I'm not sure if it's going to be good enough to get us deep into finals. It's going to be close.
    Some comments on this point:

    1. I like the way the kids are going too and am delighted that we are playing them. (By kids I am pretty much referring to Stoddart and McCartin only. Ronke is a bit older and more experienced (2 years ahead of McCartin). Florent and Hayward are another rung higher (despite not being older than Ronke) and have pretty much solidified their spots in the 22 - subject to form, of course.) I don't think the kids are currently best 22 but believe they have done enough to earn a taste of it and give us the chance to see what they can offer. Also, I think the match committee is looking ahead to what they believe may be future best 22, with these players maybe having more upside than other fringe players who they stand to push out. As someone said, the big picture is winning flags, not just winning each match.

    2. Just because we are playing the kids now doesn't mean we will play them in finals.

    3. By the time finals come around, if they are still in the team, they will be significantly more experienced and hardened.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    We've done okay in defence despite being grossly undersized. The defensive group is working well together, which has papered over the lack of size.
    I disagree with this. With the way the game is currently standing teams are setting up with one key forward, and one complementary medium forward. So the combination of Rampe and Reg is perfect. For now.
    C'mon Chels!

  5. #65
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post
    One of the interesting commentaries and oft repeated but mistaken platitudes is how the bigger Swans' bodies eventually wear down the opposition. The fact is the on the weekend the Swans were easily the shortest and lightest team playing. They were around 3 cm shorter and 5 kgs lighter than Brisbane.

    It's hard to correct this overnight with the likes of Hayward, Florent, Ronke and Papley all playing well and not likely to be pushed out of the side. But I think the Swans do need to bulk up a bit as I've noticed that we are more susceptible to having tackles broken and this lack of size will be telling as the season wears on. We've done okay in defence despite being grossly undersized. The defensive group is working well together, which has papered over the lack of size.

    Melican or Aliir should come into the side sometime soon. Even though he's been in modest form this year, I wouldn't mind giving Aliir a look in to he senior side before Melican is fit to go. We also have several mature bodies like O'Riordan, Fox, Towers and Newman who can all come in to the senior side and do a good job (perhaps making a bit of a positive projection for COR). I would also expect that Reid and Rohan will be back in the side by the time August rolls around.

    I like the way the kids are going, but I'm not sure if it's going to be good enough to get us deep into finals. It's going to be close.
    I want to see Aliir tearing it up in the ressies before he gets his next opportunity in the seniors. He is such a confidence player, and that early selection this year seemed to have not helped. Melican I have little doubt will come back in once he is fit again, perhaps after a ressies game or two.

    Stoddart looked very raw to me on Saturday, but we all expected that. And he had a few decent moments - I expect he may play again this week, but potentially drop out next week for St Kilda (as we will want to be close to full strength with the big test coming up against Wet Toast the week after). McCartin likewise is raw - but I wonder if they will persevere a bit longer, given he has helped our structure significantly up forward, competes ok, and Reid still looks a long way off.

    I certainly agree with your observation about tackles being broken etc - its been a frustration all season. But then I think, once these guys put some of the extra size on over the next couple of seasons, we are going to have a hardened generation of new guns coming through all together, likely with much more experience than would be expected of a group of younger players at a high performing club. Get our recruitment right over the next couple of seasons, and we are going to stay right near the top for quite a while.
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg View Post
    Yep, it should have been classified as ‘striking’ and graded intentional, low impact, high contact = a one match suspension.

    To get the result Hocking/Christian wanted it was instead classified as ‘misconduct’ which has a financial penalty at the MRO’s discretion.
    Yep, the AFL Christmas Party Fund gets bigger by the week. Also pays for Christian's salary.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Runner View Post
    Stoddart seemed like a selection based on opposition. Good chance to get 3-2 games to him over the coming weeks, see how he copes and then send him back with a hunger to return.

    People complaining about Newman, O'Riordan, Cameron, Aliir etc not getting games.. you can't take out a McCartin and bring one of them in unless they fill that specific role. McCartin is playing the role they needed from Reid. Competing in the air, and we are seeing the smalls benefit.

    The challenge for a lot of the guys in the 2s is that our back line and midfield are very stable and settled, so options don't come up a lot. It looks like Newman isn't liked for his lack of 2-way running and may be short on chances
    But Rohan is liked for his lack of 2 way running!!! Right now I would have Newman before him anywhere on the field.

  8. #68
    Veterans List Ludwig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcs View Post
    I want to see Aliir tearing it up in the ressies before he gets his next opportunity in the seniors. He is such a confidence player, and that early selection this year seemed to have not helped.
    Aliir has mostly been playing loose man in defence in the reserves, with the key defensive assignment given to Maibaum, who has handled it quite well btw. I thought Aliir positioned himself well in the role. He's playing more 'within himself' as compared to earlier in the year when he seemed to be taking the game on at every opportunity. Maybe he's being reprogrammed. All things considered, he looks an AFL player, even if he's not exactly 'burning up' the ressies.

    I think the timing is precise and right to bring Aliir into the senior team now, with 2 games against lower rated teams before the big match with the Eagles ahead of the bye. I don't think we will be hurt with Aliir in the side against Carlton or the Saints and we really don't have the size matchups to go up against Kennedy, Darling and the resting ruckman, so it would be a bonus if Aliir does work out and can handle a KPP assignment in that game.

    After the bye we play Richmond, so if he's not up to the task he can be dropped for that game, after which Melican should be okay to play. If Melican gets back in the senior side it's going to be hard for Aliir to get a look in this year, even if he is tearing up the NEAFL.

  9. #69
    Carpe Noctem CureTheSane's Avatar
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    What Allir brought to the side was his random movement and choices.
    The team would have learnt what to expect from him more as time went on and his turnovers etc would have reduced.
    Of course oppositions would also learn this (over a much longer period of time) but by them he would be a mpre rounded player and would have adapted some of this randomness.
    If the team are trying to breed this out of him and normalise him, then I don't hole much hope for him locking down a role in the near future.
    The difference between insanity and genius is measured only in success.

  10. #70
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CureTheSane View Post
    What Allir brought to the side was his random movement and choices.
    The team would have learnt what to expect from him more as time went on and his turnovers etc would have reduced.
    Of course oppositions would also learn this (over a much longer period of time) but by them he would be a mpre rounded player and would have adapted some of this randomness.
    If the team are trying to breed this out of him and normalise him, then I don't hole much hope for him locking down a role in the near future.
    I don't think its a case of trying to 'breed it out of him' and normalise him, just more about seeing a genuine improvement in his overall decision making. Maybe its just my interpretation, but in 2016, at his best he was playing instinctive football by looking up, finding the best option and just running with it. In his more recent seniors games, he has seemingly almost tried to do to much - overthinking it and often picking the worst option as a result. A bit of the old "KISS" principle - especially because at his best, his instinctive first idea was generally very good.
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  11. #71
    Carpe Noctem CureTheSane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcs View Post
    I don't think its a case of trying to 'breed it out of him' and normalise him, just more about seeing a genuine improvement in his overall decision making. Maybe its just my interpretation, but in 2016, at his best he was playing instinctive football by looking up, finding the best option and just running with it. In his more recent seniors games, he has seemingly almost tried to do to much - overthinking it and often picking the worst option as a result. A bit of the old "KISS" principle - especially because at his best, his instinctive first idea was generally very good.
    Maybe.
    I miss him.
    I miss the excitement I felt when he took the ball and ran, even when he was caught.
    The difference between insanity and genius is measured only in success.

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