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Thread: Changes Round 16 - vs Geelong

  1. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    In the longer term, I'll be very surprised if all of Grundy, Rampe, Aliir and Melican play in the same side. When they deem Melican ready to return to the senior side, Aliir will almost certainly make way unless Rampe or Grundy gets injured. Even though Aliir theoretically provides a chop-out ruck option, they've shown no inclination to actually use him as such, not even last week with Richmond's shorter than usual forward line.
    I agree. Can't see Aliir keeping his spot unless one of the others gets injured. Can see him off at the end of the year unless Reg retires (and he's said he wants to play on, plus there's Maibaum waiting in the wings)

  2. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    In the longer term, I'll be very surprised if all of Grundy, Rampe, Aliir and Melican play in the same side. When they deem Melican ready to return to the senior side, Aliir will almost certainly make way unless Rampe or Grundy gets injured. Even though Aliir theoretically provides a chop-out ruck option, they've shown no inclination to actually use him as such, not even last week with Richmond's shorter than usual forward line.
    I'm not sure what you mean by 'the longer term', as Reg will drop out eventually due to old age. Although I think it's possible to play all 4 against some sides, we certainly couldn't do it against a Richmond with their smaller forward line.

    I think it's a bit presumptuous that Melican is a near automatic replacement for Aliir. I like both Melican and Aliir, but think Aliir is the one who adds more to the team than does Melican. For some reason the expectation level for Aliir to get a pass mark seems so much higher than for Melican. Melican will eventually come in to replace Reg, but it's more important to get a block of games into Aliir to get him working confidently within the back line group. He adds a new dynamic to the defence and makes us a better rebounding team.

    Nick Smith was on radio last week and commented that the Swans needed to reduce the number of I50s against them, something I've been on about for a while now. As you say, Aliir hasn't been used as a 2nd ruckman, nor as a R50 marking target, but this may be due to just trying to take things one step at a time with him and believe it will come in due course.

    A change I would make this week would be to move Rohan to the backline and have McVeigh take Heeney's mixed forward-midfield role, which he can do quite well. We don't need Macca back there with Lloyd essentially performing the same sweeper role. Macca's footy brain would be more useful with our young forwards than in our experienced defence. I don't know if Rohan will succeed at HBF, but he has the perfect profile for the role. He needs to get more involved and playing defence will force the issue.

    There was quite a negative article on the AFL website about how Hanners' game has fallen away. Well, this is nothing new. Everyone's been saying the same thing. It's hard to say why Horse is in (public) denial about this. Jack hasn't done much either, but doesn't get mentioned quite as much. I would drop them both and bring in Fox and Newman, with Towers and O'Riordan also possibilities for the Heeney replacement.

    More injury info should be forthcoming this arvo.

  3. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rb4x View Post
    Papley will not be playing and I very much doubt Heeney will either. Hanners needs to be rested until his body is right and Rohan needs to go to the NEAFL to learn how to get the footy again. Suspect that the three in's will be Towers, Fox and Robinson who were rested from the NEAFL for this game. That will be enough changes so Jack will hang on by a thread and Aliir and Rose will get another chance. Emergencies from Rohan, Marsh, Newman, Cameron, O'Riordan and Dawson. Scathing article on Hannebury on the AFL site today. Hope there are no more injuries to come out of the woodwork.
    I suspect the article to which rb4x refers to above may actually save Hanners.

    The damning stats behind a star's shock demise - AFL.com.au

    The club will see it as a slur against him and show it's 'support' him by picking him.....but that article is actually a prime case for dropping him. It is damning and it's fact.

  4. #28
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    I saw the article about Hannebery on the AFL site. A player carrying an injury or a player cooked from trying to play with too many niggles in the past. Surely the Selection Committee needs to get to the bottom of this.

    out Hanners in Robinson

    Gary, Gary, what is going on? There's a lot of love for Gary on here but he's not producing much on the field.

    out Rohan in Towers

    out Heeney (injured) in Fox

    Rose stays in - he was a bit off the pace but he had a real crack.

    Aliir stays in unless Melican is available.

  5. #29
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    Blicavs still in doubt to play us.....good. Go Buddy!

    Blicavs still in doubt for his big test - AFL.com.au

  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwig View Post

    I think it's a bit presumptuous that Melican is a near automatic replacement for Aliir. I like both Melican and Aliir, but think Aliir is the one who adds more to the team than does Melican. For some reason the expectation level for Aliir to get a pass mark seems so much higher than for Melican. Melican will eventually come in to replace Reg, but it's more important to get a block of games into Aliir to get him working confidently within the back line group. He adds a new dynamic to the defence and makes us a better rebounding team.
    I don't think it's presumptuous. I think it reflects where the coaches see the two relative to each other. Aliir's been OK for the last couple of weeks but I don't think he's made is a better rebounding team. He has the potential to do so but I don't think he is yet. He still seems very conservative with his disposals - more so than Melican when he was settled in the team at the back end of last season and very early this season (including the pre-season campaign). However, I think Aliir's form has been good enough to warrant making Melican play another couple of games, at least, in the NEAFL team to make sure he's properly match fit. And if Aliir can maintain, or even improve on what he's delivered for the last couple of weeks, he'll make Melican really earn his recall, when it comes. He should get a good opportunity this week to play on a taller opponent. Grundy will get Hawkins, Rampe will probably be given the job of matching up on Dangerfield when he goes forward, and the Cats are likely to have at least one more tall in their forward line most of the time. Maybe he (Aliir) will be given the chance of playing on Dangerfield at times. Rampe struggled in the final last year because Danger is pretty good at elevating himself. Aliir's height and better leap might make him a better match-up physically, at least.

    When I said "long term" I was referring mostly to the rest of this season - ie beyond this week and next. I acknowledge it wasn't a great choice of word. But I reckon Grundy has another year left in him if he wants it. If the coaches are reluctant, it's up to Melican and Aliir (and Maibaum) to convince them they're ready to take over from the start of next season.

  7. #31
    Hanners was never that great at disposal, but he has certainly never been this bad. He should be in the prime of his career, so must be struggling with an injury.
    Surely, its worth resting him, even if only to get back to his best by 2019, 2020.

    We dont want him to have to retire at 28.

  8. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    I don't think it's presumptuous. I think it reflects where the coaches see the two relative to each other. Aliir's been OK for the last couple of weeks but I don't think he's made is a better rebounding team. He has the potential to do so but I don't think he is yet. He still seems very conservative with his disposals - more so than Melican when he was settled in the team at the back end of last season and very early this season (including the pre-season campaign). However, I think Aliir's form has been good enough to warrant making Melican play another couple of games, at least, in the NEAFL team to make sure he's properly match fit. And if Aliir can maintain, or even improve on what he's delivered for the last couple of weeks, he'll make Melican really earn his recall, when it comes. He should get a good opportunity this week to play on a taller opponent. Grundy will get Hawkins, Rampe will probably be given the job of matching up on Dangerfield when he goes forward, and the Cats are likely to have at least one more tall in their forward line most of the time. Maybe he (Aliir) will be given the chance of playing on Dangerfield at times. Rampe struggled in the final last year because Danger is pretty good at elevating himself. Aliir's height and better leap might make him a better match-up physically, at least.

    When I said "long term" I was referring mostly to the rest of this season - ie beyond this week and next. I acknowledge it wasn't a great choice of word. But I reckon Grundy has another year left in him if he wants it. If the coaches are reluctant, it's up to Melican and Aliir (and Maibaum) to convince them they're ready to take over from the start of next season.
    Melican has been a standout player for us in the games he has played. Doesn't mean Allir can't be in the team depending on match ups but Melican is better on big players than Allir is.

  9. #33
    Travelling Swannie!! mcs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    Hanners was never that great at disposal, but he has certainly never been this bad. He should be in the prime of his career, so must be struggling with an injury.
    Surely, its worth resting him, even if only to get back to his best by 2019, 2020.

    We dont want him to have to retire at 28.
    We don't often agree wholeheartedly on issues Barry, but I feel you are spot on here.

    If it is more OP as some have suggested (And the symptoms on the field would suggest may be the case), we should wear the short term pain and get him right, or else we may end up stuffing Hanners completely. Better to not have him playing for 6 months, 12 months or even 18 months if it takes that long and get an extra useful 3 or 4 years at the backend of his career, then to try and push him through whatever is afflicting him on the hope of short term gain.

    Perhaps he will come good in coming weeks - but I wouldn't hang my hat on it!
    "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

  10. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by mcs View Post
    If it is more OP as some have suggested (And the symptoms on the field would suggest may be the case), we should wear the short term pain and get him right, or else we may end up stuffing Hanners completely. Better to not have him playing for 6 months, 12 months or even 18 months if it takes that long and get an extra useful 3 or 4 years at the backend of his career, then to try and push him through whatever is afflicting him on the hope of short term gain.

    Perhaps he will come good in coming weeks - but I wouldn't hang my hat on it!
    I was going to make a similar suggestion. Might be worth Hanners taking the rest of the year off to see if he can rediscover his form for 2019. There was an article this week where Tom Bellchambers said the year he had off had extended his career. He's good for nothing right now except possibly a tagging role.

    He has gone from 90th worst to 121st worst (and absolute worst) kick as a midfielder. Other stats are damning too.

  11. #35
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    Winning papers over the cracks but the loss to Richmond made the cracks visible for all, we are carrying too many players in the senior side.

    Last Thursday night was damning, only 12 scoring shots for a whole game, that's an average of three per quarter, one scoring shot every 10 minutes! just lucky we kicked 11 goals straight.

    There will need to be some big decisions made in the next week and we all know the players these decisions need to be made about. We are not winning a flag with the current 22 so why not invest in the very talented youngsters and if we fail with them, at least it's been a learning curve for them.

    I've got no idea what we'll read in 26 hours but heavy negative media exposure of Hanners and also KJ means it needs to be talked about this week as a minimum but hopefully translated into selections although Heeney and Papley missing probably means putting it off for another week. If Newman was dropped for poor disposal how does Hanners get selected week in, week out with his lack of pace and dreadful disposal? Pick the better player who will contribute the most, please. Seniors is not the place to just get km under the belt, that's what NEAFL is for!

  12. #36
    Veterans List Ludwig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liz View Post
    I don't think it's presumptuous. I think it reflects where the coaches see the two relative to each other. Aliir's been OK for the last couple of weeks but I don't think he's made is a better rebounding team. He has the potential to do so but I don't think he is yet. He still seems very conservative with his disposals - more so than Melican when he was settled in the team at the back end of last season and very early this season (including the pre-season campaign). However, I think Aliir's form has been good enough to warrant making Melican play another couple of games, at least, in the NEAFL team to make sure he's properly match fit. And if Aliir can maintain, or even improve on what he's delivered for the last couple of weeks, he'll make Melican really earn his recall, when it comes. He should get a good opportunity this week to play on a taller opponent.
    I would change this coaches' view of the 2 players to the past tense. This was their assessment at the time of Melican's injury, but now it's Melican trying to get into form after a long layoff and Aliir who is in the senior side. We are talking about players with 20 and 19 senior games, respectively, so both should have a lot of upside potential. Once they both get a year or so of playing together they should make a formidable defensive duo, with Melican doing the Grundy role and Aliir the intercept marker that seems so vital in today's game.

    There's been an ongoing commentary about how good the Swans are at absorbing pressure and even saying that the Swans actually want the ball coming into their defensive 50 so they can use their slingshot offence. This is rubbish and a media created myth, which is why I included Nick Smith's remarks in a previous post. The Swans don't want the ball being played all game in their defensive zone. It turns out that way because the we have structured our defence to suit our strengths and compensate for our lack of speed. We are always looking to get behind the ball which weakens our ability to press forward.

    This will seem paradoxical, but I think Reg is our best defender, but we would have a better chance of winning the premiership this year playing Melican and Aliir and leaving Reg out of the side. Add to this Rohan playing at halfback, and we've got a weaker defensive unit, but one that's capable to zoning off and rebounding. I don't think we can hope to go through to the GF unless we can play more than our share of the game in our forward half, so some risks have to be taken.

    We don't really have a premiership quality side this year, but luckily there's only Richmond that seems to be out in front and we are as good a chance as any of the contenders to challenge the Tigers. As we know, if we can get to the GF, anything can happen (as long as the Victorian team wins the game).

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