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Thread: 2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

  1. #13
    It seems it's not just me and there is less to talk about this year. Fewer players accused of being list cloggers (we had a fair clear out of fringe players: Foote, Robinson, Marsh, Newman, Towers and even Rohan). No debate about whether we need more, fewer or different rucks. Less discussion about how we can unload expensive, underperforming players - we've been busy clearing out there too. Less to talk about in the way of 2019 Academy prospects.

    We just have to wait and see how our many new recruits fare and how our youngsters step up to their new opportunities. Maybe we can feel vindicated about the decision to offload Hanners.

    I'd still like to hear about what people think we need to do to improve our list and how we should go about doing it.

  2. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodspirit View Post
    It seems it's not just me and there is less to talk about this year. Fewer players accused of being list cloggers (we had a fair clear out of fringe players: Foote, Robinson, Marsh, Newman, Towers and even Rohan). No debate about whether we need more, fewer or different rucks. Less discussion about how we can unload expensive, underperforming players - we've been busy clearing out there too. Less to talk about in the way of 2019 Academy prospects.

    We just have to wait and see how our many new recruits fare and how our youngsters step up to their new opportunities. Maybe we can feel vindicated about the decision to offload Hanners.

    I'd still like to hear about what people think we need to do to improve our list and how we should go about doing it.
    I think talk of 2019 academy prospects wont come about until they start playing the new part TAC cup / part academy series games in March / Aprill / May and the performances of anybody that makes the allies team in June.

  3. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodspirit View Post
    At last! It hasn't been 72 years but, here it is.

    I have pondered why I have not felt moved to kick this thread off sooner. I think it is at least partly because I anticipate less dramatic change or it's less clear what the change will be in the year ahead. Not that this thread has to be about change necessarily.

    My thoughts and comments:

    * my take on our latest off-season was that we rate our current list and have chosen to invest in them. We are trusting our youth to improve and that is the main way we are looking to improve our list. We have had the benefit of a number of first round draft picks (and even high first round draft picks) over the last several years: Jones, Heeney, Mills, Florent, Hayward (near enough to first round), Ling, Blakey as well as other young talent like Hewett, Aliir, Melican, Papley, Ronke, McCartin, Stoddart. And we have a proven track record developing talent. So this seems a sound strategy. We avoid paying premiums on the open market and our players are better schooled in our systems and game plans (conversely they have had less exposure to other ways of doing things).

    * the biggest point that comes to mind when thinking about our list management come the end of the year is that we will have a war chest to chase players, including big names, if we want to. Andrew Ireland said as much in his farewell interview although he declined to use the expression "war chest". We have had some big name players depart and more retirements are on the cards. Who will might we target? Where are our weaknesses? Will Heeney, Mills, Jones, Florent, Papley, Clarke etc fill the gaps in the midfield left by our departures? With Mitchell long gone and JPK aging, will we want a midfield bull or ball magnet?

    Retirements

    It seems almost certain that this will be Kieren Jack's last season and nearly as certain it will be Jarrad McVeigh's last season too. Heath Grundy might retire although I think it is more likely that he will go around again, depending on his form this year. Will Menzel's body last beyond the season? I don't think Nick Smith's future beyond the season is in question but I could be wrong.

    Contract extensions

    There aren't too many key players coming out of contract this season, perhaps in line with the recent trend of extending contracts well before they expire. Leaving aside the potential retirees, players who can expect contract extensions include: Cunningham, Jones, Cameron, Dawson, O'Riordan, Smith, Sinclair, and, probably, Fox. I can't see any of the best 22 players leaving although those that can't find a regular spot in the senior team may be targeted by our rivals and choose to go.

    Later this year we might start to think about extending the contracts of some of our younger players who are due to have contracts expire at the end of 2020 e.g. Hewett, Florent, Hayward, Papley, Ronke. I don't think we'd want to have them all unsigned at this time next year.

    Under the pump

    This year the acid will be on Maibaum, Rose and Pink. They all just got an extra year extension and are touch and go to be further extended depending on their seasons. Surely Rose will be delisted if he doesn't get another senior game. But if he can carry on with the form he showed in the 2018 NEAFL granny the future may be brighter. Would be good to see Maibaum start to dominate more at NEAFL level. He has been solid but hasn't done enough really to convince our list managers and get a decent contract. His future may depend a little on the form and fitness of Reg, Aliir and Melican too. Pink is a bit of an unknown. Due to injury, he hasn't shown anything since a promising rookie year in 2017 when he was still quite raw.

    Coaches

    On the coaching front we might expect to see Macca join the team if he retires, possibly at the expense of Laidler. Still we have had recent significant change among the coaches and I am not forecasting more. Will be interesting to see how Perris goes. He's really young, which I like.

    Other football staff and management

    It's to be hoped that Blakey and Beatson are not contemplating retirement or new challenges. Gardiner has just ascended to the head of football role and we will back him in. Ditto Harley as CEO, although he is more of a known quantity so we can expect to be happy with him. We've also renewed our recruiters in recent times already - Simon Dalrymple, Ross Monaghan, Chris Keane and the move to the greater focus on stats analysis. I'm not to up on the details of our other staff - although here is a handy list if you are keen to see who they are: Staff Listing - sydneyswans.com.au.

    * then there's the inaugural mid-season draft coming up in June. At this stage I don't think we have a space to use it but that could change if someone has a season ending injury.

    * when it comes to the 2019 draft I guess we'll see the rule changes and innovations that come about under live pick trading 2.0. The Academy player most on the radar seems to be Josh Rayner although I don't think he's currently projected to be a high pick. The brightest promise is being shown by Academy players eligible for the 2020 draft, particularly Errol Gulden and Braeden Campbell.

    * in terms of free agency there is not a lot of quality on offer - Stephen Coniglio being the stand out. Here's a recent article from afl.com.au explaining why this is so and listing the free agents that currently remain unsigned byeond 2019: Slimmer pickings? Why 2019's free agency crop is different - AFL.com.au. It might be more fruitful to examine who will be the free agents in 2020 and target them a year early.

    What are your thoughts? Which players should we chase? Where are our weaknesses - forward, back, midfield? Ruck seems ok if nobody goes anywhere. Do we need changes in the coaching ranks or among other staff? (Maybe save the 'Sack Horse' comments for a different thread and only comment on who you might want to replace him here.)
    We do and can use the space made by Tippett V being relegated to the Rookie List.

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  4. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 707 View Post
    Reported that the Pies rearranged a number of contracts to ease the squeeze, Eddy won't let anyone good get to us!

    GWS have a couple of very big signings on significant money this year in Kelly and Coniglio but they did jettison a heap of players last trade period in preparation.
    Shame that we've never been able to manage our salary cap in a similar manner over the last few years to keep the list together. Instead we do the opposite and throw huge money at academy locals who would probably never had any intention of departing Sydney

  5. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj23 View Post
    Shame that we've never been able to manage our salary cap in a similar manner over the last few years to keep the list together. Instead we do the opposite and throw huge money at academy locals who would probably never had any intention of departing Sydney
    Huge money? Heens and Mills are worth it and probably Blakey on potential alone.....pray tell what other academy locals have had 'huge money' thrown at them? Don't count the one's that have proven themselves already (and probably deserve an income increase).

  6. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevoswan View Post
    Huge money? Heens and Mills are worth it and probably Blakey on potential alone.....pray tell what other academy locals have had 'huge money' thrown at them? Don't count the one's that have proven themselves already (and probably deserve an income increase).
    Heeney definitely worth it, Mills maybe, still too early to tell, Blakey don't think he's on significant $$'s yet

    The point is that some of the well ran Melbourne clubs have managed to convince their players to take unders (i.e. Hawks, Pies) to keep their lists together, whereas we've paid overs to retain (or recruit) Father Sons (Mitchell), Sydney born and bred locals (Heeney, Mills - which kind of defeats the purpose of academies), and good players heading into the back end of their careers (Jack, Hanners, Tippett).

    I guess its the ongoing cost of being in a non-football state. Hopefully the last offseason of culling (along with a couple of retirements at the end of this season) has eased that salary cap pressure going forward

  7. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj23 View Post
    Heeney definitely worth it, Mills maybe, still too early to tell, Blakey don't think he's on significant $$'s yet

    The point is that some of the well ran Melbourne clubs have managed to convince their players to take unders (i.e. Hawks, Pies) to keep their lists together, whereas we've paid overs to retain (or recruit) Father Sons (Mitchell), Sydney born and bred locals (Heeney, Mills - which kind of defeats the purpose of academies), and good players heading into the back end of their careers (Jack, Hanners, Tippett).

    I guess its the ongoing cost of being in a non-football state. Hopefully the last offseason of culling (along with a couple of retirements at the end of this season) has eased that salary cap pressure going forward
    Over the long term, I see your point....

  8. #20
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    The list changes last year gave us salary cap space so we can now set a clear course for the future without the restrictions of immediately previous seasons - tick

    The recruiting has been of specific type players to make our squad suit the modern and constantly evolving game - tick

    We've gone from one of the oldest to one of the youngest lists and remained competitive - tick

    We've had some stunning success recently with players recruited out in the twilight zone of the drafts, Papley, Ronke, Aliir, McCartin - tick

    The list no longer contains players who you knew never had ceilings higher than fringe 22 - tick

    Players likely to retire this year are mainly now lesser contributors and can be replaced internally. Their retirement frees up more cap - tick

    The list has all positions covered IMO, future changes will only strengthen the list - tick

    We are in a position to attract a significant FA if we desire, unlike previously - tick

    Can't remember when I was this bullish about the future, we have some stars in the making and even the rookies look highly likely types but obviously development players. So like someone else said, there's likely to be less discussion amongst ourselves this year on list management because the hard yards were put in previous couple of years.
    Last edited by 707; 19th February 2019 at 04:22 PM.

  9. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by caj23 View Post
    Heeney definitely worth it, Mills maybe, still too early to tell, Blakey don't think he's on significant $$'s yet

    The point is that some of the well ran Melbourne clubs have managed to convince their players to take unders (i.e. Hawks, Pies) to keep their lists together, whereas we've paid overs to retain (or recruit) Father Sons (Mitchell), Sydney born and bred locals (Heeney, Mills - which kind of defeats the purpose of academies), and good players heading into the back end of their careers (Jack, Hanners, Tippett).

    I guess its the ongoing cost of being in a non-football state. Hopefully the last offseason of culling (along with a couple of retirements at the end of this season) has eased that salary cap pressure going forward
    I cant agree with this point , you dont look after the mercenary , in any well run organisation you look after those who are loyal to you and who perform. Academy players shouldn't be disadvantaged in their earning capacity because they want to play for the swans, they should be paid as well as anyone else of their ability. That further inspires loyalty and sets the precedent for your culture. If you set this culture in place, it further inspires better players through the academy program as they know they will be looked after.

    The taking unders thing is a myth to me. For higher profile players , Melbourne clubs provide much more opportunity for external earning capacity both during and after their time in the club so its much easier in my view to convince a player to take unders to stay at a club where such opportunities are more likely to arise.

  10. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Magoo View Post
    ... The taking unders thing is a myth to me. For higher profile players , Melbourne clubs provide much more opportunity for external earning capacity both during and after their time in the club. .....
    I totally agree with this. I suspect only a very few of our players get these sort of external opportunities both while playing and after.

  11. #23
    Yes I agree with the external earnings loophole. I don't think these players are earning "unders" at all to go to the Hawks/Pies/Tigers/Bombers. They are just earning less of it inside the legitimate salary cap. I really don't like how this aspect of the system works. It disadvantages the interstate clubs. I want an even playing field, Eddie!

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  12. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 707 View Post
    The list changes last year gave us salary cap space so we can now set a clear course for the future without the restrictions of immediately previous seasons - tick

    The recruiting has been of specific type players to make our squad suit the modern and constantly evolving game - tick

    We've gone from one of the oldest to one of the youngest lists and remained competitive - tick

    We've had some stunning success recently with players recruited out in the twilight zone of the drafts, Papley, Ronke, Aliir, McCartin - tick

    The list no longer contains players who you knew never had ceilings higher than fringe 22 - tick

    Players likely to retire this year are mainly now lesser contributors and can be replaced internally. Their retirement frees up more cap - tick

    The list has all positions covered IMO, future changes will only strengthen the list - tick

    We are in a position to attract a significant FA if we desire, unlike previously - tick

    Can't remember when I was this bullish about the future, we have some stars in the making and even the rookies look highly likely types but obviously development players. So like someone else said, there's likely to be less discussion amongst ourselves this year on list management because the hard yards were put in previous couple of years.

    Great post, agree with all of this

    I'm with you, pretty confident about what we have on our list going into this season

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